ANSWER THREAD: @Bert V asked (very much summarised) 'block carvers have been (and still are) able to patch worn out bits of a block, some also apply more than one colour to woodblocks. Could this be the case here?' Cappucine's answer: Thanks for your comments! As far as I know, the original keyblock used to print the Great Wave has not survived (the one in the film is a modern replica). So I can’t examine it and see whether it was repaired.
You are absolutely right: sometimes, woodblock carvers inserted plugs of wood to modify designs. For instance, they removed the heads of characters in books illustrations and inserted new ones with different hairstyles. Or they replaced a publisher’s name with another one. But this is reuse/revamping, not repair.
In my opinion, prints’ keyblocks were generally not repaired in the Edo Period. Prints were so cheap that publishers had little incentive to spend money and have woodblocks repaired. I have gone through high resolution photographs of surviving Edo woodblocks and could not find any evidence of “proper” repair on them.
I didn’t have time to explain all my findings in the film, but I observed that other lines in impressions of The Great Wave -not just the cartouche- gradually disappeared. This is always in the same areas and strongly suggests that a *unique* keyblock was used for all the impressions of The Great Wave.
Regarding the yellow woodblock, the boat on the LHS and the little section of the boat in the foreground are *systematically* left blank in late impressions of The Great Wave. This indicates that a different woodblock was used. It takes less time to apply ink all over the woodblock, rather than going through the trouble of inking some very specific areas only.
If you are interested, all the details of my findings are published in an essay available online: www.latehokusai.org/research-publication/the-making-and-evolution-of-hokusais-great-wave
I hope you have found this helpful. Many thanks for your interest!
Hokusai’s 'The Great Wave' (and the differences between all 111 of them) | Woodblock Printing 1334pm 22.12.21 ok; i will think of you when i brush my teeth. when i can be bothered that is... which will say something about the nature of the print process - clarity where clarity is required. time and effort taken if it was a print being created for a notable less than the required effort when it was a print for mass circulation... did you document the various prints to determine how the block aged? i mean; a block used to print would be easy to render so the bounding line was coherent regards the ink hitting the page... as i say; yeah yeah yeah ok........ would suggest that it al depends on the guy who wants to procure the image as to how defined the print is... and then yer correct in assuming that copies of the original block could be made... the democratization of the image isn't necessarily to be commended.
@@JJONNYREPP are you suggesting that this lady's research (as commendable as it is) has failed to acknowledge that nefarious scoundrels (for example, dodgy twentieth century woodblock cutters - sometimes from china) may have produced exact copies (fakes) of said print?
A couple years ago Dave Bull was the one who firstly got me interested in ukiyo-e. I'm really glad to know his amazing work also helped making history :)
It may be common knowledge but I listened to a Japanese curator explain that the two huddled passengers in each boat are actually rowers taking a rest. The money that would be made by being first into harbour with the catch would be many times the normal rate. The two extra rowers meant that they could maintain maximum speed by continuously rotating the rowers. The impression I received was that these were professionals who had not been caught in a storm, rather they were taking a calculated risk to make a handsome profit. It was a genuine pleasure to listen to this continuing exploration of the prints.
At age 17-back in the early 1970s-I was taken in by the parents of a good friend (for about a year), as it was not safe to continue living with my mentally Ill parent. My friend’s father’s parents had been Japanese Missionaries, and I was fascinated by his stories, as he was with them in Japan as a young child ; born in 1927. In the living room of their Mediterranean-style home, was a beautiful old Japanese trunk, and a Samurai Sword hung over the fireplace. One day, both parents gave me a huge thrill, by opening the trunk to show me some of the treasures it contained… They knew of, and encouraged, my love of Japanese woodblock prints, and that my favorite Ukiyo-e artist was Hokusai, creator of The Great Wave, one of my favorite prints. When I saw that there were works of Hokusai in the trunk, I was in absolute awe! (They were later given to a museum, of course). But on that day, when I had the great privilege of holding small, hand-bound sketchbooks of the great Hokusai in my own two hands, I was all but trembling with excitement and wonder I can still recall, 51 years later!
This may add to the confusion or even upset the British Museum, but nowhere in this video has been mentioned that block carvers have been (and still are) able to patch worn-out bits of a block with a fresh bit or replace it with for instance a new cartouche. There are known instances of publishers' marks being replaced. This would imply that using the edges of the cartouche to date a print doesn’t apply. I think microscopic inspection of the wood structure should help (and maybe that has been done - but the video does not mention this). Another point: some colour blocks can be used to print different colours, as long as the areas are separated enough to apply ink safely w/o running into each other. The fact that one of the boats lacks the coloration of the others could be a case of the printer skipping that, by design to save time or by chance.. Anyway - it is fascinating how much questions arise from studying this seminal piece of art and how difficult it is to answer them. (My link to The Wave: I used it as inspiration for a record album cover I illustrated and designed in the early 80’s…)
@@-Deena. Very obscure label: 1000 Idiots Records Netherlands. LP by The Kewi-a-Go-go Party (The KeWi’s): Life is like a Penguin. I dare you to find a picture… : )
(ANSWER FROM CAPUCINE) Thanks for your comments! As far as I know, the original keyblock used to print the Great Wave has not survived (the one in the film is a modern replica). So I can’t examine it and see whether it was repaired. You are absolutely right: sometimes, woodblock carvers inserted plugs of wood to modify designs. For instance, they removed the heads of characters in books illustrations and inserted new ones with different hairstyles. Or they replaced a publisher’s name with another one. But this is reuse/revamping, not repair. In my opinion, prints’ keyblocks were generally not repaired in the Edo Period. Prints were so cheap that publishers had little incentive to spend money and have woodblocks repaired. I have gone through high resolution photographs of surviving Edo woodblocks and could not find any evidence of “proper” repair on them. I didn’t have time to explain all my findings in the film, but I observed that other lines in impressions of The Great Wave -not just the cartouche- gradually disappeared. This is always in the same areas and strongly suggests that a *unique* keyblock was used for all the impressions of The Great Wave. Regarding the yellow woodblock, the boat on the LHS and the little section of the boat in the foreground are *systematically* left blank in late impressions of The Great Wave. This indicates that a different woodblock was used. It takes less time to apply ink all over the woodblock, rather than going through the trouble of inking some very specific areas only. If you are interested, all the details of my findings are published in an essay available online: www.latehokusai.org/research-publication/the-making-and-evolution-of-hokusais-great-wave I hope you have found this helpful. Many thanks for your interest! Capucine
Wow, absolutely fascinating! Even just the insight into the left-right/right-left reading of the image was eye-opening. I'm very curious to see what the next phase of research into this will bring to light!
There was a slight line dent e.g. 0.1 mm and this line was printed with a light, many-strand baren and appeared as a line break on the print. Later another printer with heavier baren made it appear again that the line had never been broken. Alternatively, there was a bit of wax or oil on the block and 100 or 200 prints then appear to have a physical line break. Later the block is washed the missing area prints. Yet another alternative, perhaps a line is chipped, 100 or 200 prints are pulled and then a carver repairs the chip. It’s actually very easy to make a perfect repair that is undetectable in the print. I admire Keyes, the BM, and Marks for attempting an edition chronology however there may never be sufficient information to do so precisely given that all we have is a very small sample size printed over a duration of decades.
I find this fascinating!! Thank you for creating such intriguing content and making the massive amount of work behind exhibitions and objects more visible to the general public.
She is right. Looking at it from left to right, it looks like the boats and fishermen are escaping the wave, making their way to the right side, to safety. From right to left, it looks like they're plunging directly into the great wave.
This is the first (The) British Museum video where I feel I’m watching an Errol-Morris-level of discussion of image and its ...meaning. I await the next 65 minutes of filmed discussion on this topic. I’m quite serious about this. Thank you.
A few years back, one of the Great Wave prints was displayed at the MFA in Boston for a few months at a special exhibit. I was surprised by how small it was and that there were several prints of it as well. I managed to get a pciture of me with it, and there was quite the line for selfies with the Great Wave
Very enjoyable presentation of an intriguing process, wear and tear of woodblock prints is really fascinating (perhaps we can see similar efforts done on the issue called Foxing?). One point I noticed is that, during the video it is recognised that color blocks are replaced and recarved but so are keyblocks. Dating of a set of prints is then just relative to them sharing the same block set, I feel. Thanks a lot for sharing this information with us!
What is next? I suggest having all the photos on a computer and lining them all up as layers. Then you can compare differences in the layers by making them opaque and altering the colours between layers. Overlap two and where the colours match exactly it will combine the colour of the layer above with the colour of the layer below. Where they do not match up it will either show the colour of the layer above or the colour of the layer below. This would be a quick way of showing any differences between prints.
Fun fact. There's an American book from about 1910 about Japan and it has a genuine wood block print inside the cover. The book is cheap last I saw, so it's one way to get your hands on the real deal.
At 13:50 the clouds are visible. The pink at 14:35 is even more obvious. The orangey-pink parts of both look as though they could be sappanwood dye, which is fugitive in light. Perhaps the second has another pigment that stabilised it, like safflower petals. Did you identify the pigments used to some degree by their absorption spectra?
Very interesting, thank you Capucine this reminded me of my father looking through sheets of stamps looking for the upside down letter of number just printed in the wrong colour. There is so much we do not see
"This is not an email to send to a curator on a Friday evening" Doesn't matter which industry you work in, we've all had *that* kind of email at least once XDD
So, I have a theory on the descending quality on the replacement blocks and the idea of "original" and "authentic" when it comes to prints. If you have an original (early) print it is more authentic with better detail. I would assume that makes the print itself higher value and therefore making the printer applying the block take better care. Let's say, once a popular print has it's wood block wear down, the blocks might be sold to a low-price print dealer to make low-cost prints of the popular piece. Similar to how a popular movie or video game might have been a high price on home release, might drop to half or even sub $10 price after a few years. Maybe even a "bargain release" would appear, and I assume the same would happen with prints? Blocks getting worn down? Drop the price. Missing blocks had to be recut by amateurs? Drop the price. It may not be original quality, but it's close enough for the everyday person to not notice.
This is wonderful; thank you! Is it possible to use open-air XRF (and conceivably XRD?) as part of a nondestructive path toward identifying mineral pigments?
You say you are hunting for the earliest first impression print in the most original condition ( revealing its true colours ) but with the 111 recorded so far , which copy and in which institution do you consider to be the most unaffected by the passage of time? , ie the one showing as best you can judge , the original state? . Well done for all your hard work, much appreciated.
Hello Cappucine, i downloaded your Publication on this matter and saw the List of Sources for original Great Waves. I think i found another one which is not included in your List. The "Bayrische Staatsbibliothek" in München (Bavarian Statelibrary in Munich, Ger) should have another original Version of this Print. Maybe i came a couple Years to late and this is no help anymore. But maybe it is who knows. Thanks alot for your great Work! Greetings from Germany
9:13 "...this gaps disappear... it doesn't make sense..." As an amateur woodblock carver, it makes sense: the woodblocks were or (a) replaced or (b) fixed. Due to the popularity of the design, they probably got many fixes before a complete recarving of the keyblock, the most important. EDIT: in my view, they cartouche as a whole was replaced when you compare the thickness of the text, which is clearly thicker in the "fixed" version.
It's getting to the point I'm thinking of pinning a comment that reads 'there are boats, and you're not even close to being the only person who didn't spot them'
12:12 "...prominently displayed on the wall by windows..." Obviously. At that time, it didn't matter the lightfastness of colors because those were not "art to collect" but "decorations to hang and discard as soon a new one appeared, not meant to last".
I'm watching this great video with one of Dave's Great Wave prints on my office wall. I think that Korenberg is overthinking the whole issue. I think that we are giving the Great Wall more value than what the "original" publishers gave it. Hokusai didn't make any prints, he painted a painting and sold it to a publishing house. The publisher has to sell as many copies as possible to offset the costs of the carving and the printing process. They worked in big workshops where there were several carvers and dozens of printers working in an almost production line. The Great Wave like many other prints of its time is a mass produced product. Printing blocks gets damaged all the time for different reasons. From getting dropped, cracking, or splitting because the wood wasn't dry enough or warping due to rapid changes in humidity levels. The blocks that can be fixed will be fixed, the others are just replaced. And it is possible that a block (if it's not the keyblock) is simply not used. A publisher has to make money. And if the publisher knows that they can get away with one less color, that's one less block to carve and 15 to 20% reduction of the manufacturing process. That's a significant cut in the cost of making a print that increases the publisher's profits. Furthermore, there is no guarantee that all the prints of the Great Wave have been made by the same publisher. A publisher could have sold the blocks to another publishing house. Other publishers could have simply made their own and sold the prints in different regions of Japan. Even within the same publishing house carvers and printers change. They can also move from one publisher to the other.
This print, above all the other 35 of the series, has become iconographic, hence the academic and scientific interest in it. If such investigation is "overthinking", then more of that, please.
@@walkingstick6655 I don't think you've read my comment in full but I agree with you. I too would love more investigations and let there be more and more. However, an investigation has to consider the historical and technical context of the subject of the investigation. Also, an investigation shouldn't be based on unverified assumption. In my initial comment, that may or may not be accurate, I supported my thoughts with arguments. I wish you had done the same so I can learn something from what you.
@@abdelhamidcherragui I did read your comment in full. I believe she was attempting, originally, to determine the version of a set of prints owned by the museum, then turned to attempting to sequencing them, along with many other versions, by the differences. As simple as that. How is she overthinking any of this? I think that's my point. I trust that she's particularly well-versed in the interesting points that you made.
@@walkingstick6655 I understand and I believe that I haven't expressed myself clearly in my first comment. Saying that "Korenberg is overthinking..." wasn't the best way to express my actual opinion. Korenberg was very successful in choosing the three prints of the Great Wave that the BM has to investigate. Those are definitely worth investigating. Let me clarify what I meant when I said that she's "overthinking". Dr. Korenberg is investigating three prints of a Hokusai painting. She's not investigating what Hokusai actually painted because the original painting is long gone. All we got are the prints. The prints were not made nor commissioned by Hokusai. And according to the records, Hokusai didn't supervise nor monitor the printing process. The prints were made by publishing houses that employed carvers and printers. I believe that when investigating the Great Wave or any other print, one has to keep in mind the perspective of the publishing house, the carvers, and the printers. Because the carvers and the printers don't see the Great Wave in the same way we do now. To them, it was just one among thousands of prints that they are laboriously making every day. In 14:38, Dr Korenberg showed that copy of the print where the boats are pink instead of yellow and grey. And that's not really due to anything artistic but most likely the printing house was producing them in a rush and the printer ran out of pigment. The printer happened to have that pink or reddish pigment laying around from another print and used it instead. We can never know for sure. But not knowing doesn't mean that there has to be a deep significance behind that change. What I meant by overthinking is simply giving more value to an object that the original makers didn't really care that much about. By the makers I mean the carvers, printers, and publishing houses. An example of this would be to question the technical printing choices that a printer made while printing the album cover of The Beatles' Abbey Road. The Abbey Road album cover is one of the most famous photographs in history. But from the perspective of the technician who worked at the printing house that printed that album cover at that time, it was just another day at the job. And it's really the same for the workers inside the Japanese woodblock printing shops. Dr Korenberg's methodology is also questionable. It is true that woodblocks accumulate damage over time. But one cannot know which print predates the other based on the damage marks because not all prints have been made using the same set of blocks. And even the same set of blocks would be sent back to carvers to mend the worn-out parts. The damaged cartouche could have been fixed by removing it completely and inserting a freshly carved inlay. Or even better by removing it entirely and making small wood block that only has a freshly carved cartouche. It was very common for printing houses to change woodblocks for fresh ones if the old ones had significant wear marks or got damaged. Therefore assuming that a print with clear lines is older than a print with damaged lines is just wrong.
Perhaps you're overthinking this? My understanding is that there's a lot that wasn't said in this video, or couldn't be said due to running time. It's not as simple as clear and broken lines but that differentiation is the quickest way of explaining the findings in a short video. If the key blocks differed in any other ways, which would imply different key blocks, I'm sure that would have been mentioned or rather they would have been excluded from this study. All the images that were compared used the same key block, according to the published PDF that accompanied this research. Thanks to the British Museum.
This is GREAT! More in-depth information on the Great Wave that I thought could be possible. I've already made a short clip on the Great Wave, as I live in Kanagawa, although I'm more knowledgeable regarding Hiroshige's work in this area. What I'm looking to do is find for certain the exact location of the Great Wave. I think I might have found it, at the mouth of Tokyo Bay, where the Uraga Channel opens out into the Pacific. I do recall seeing someone make the same assertion, but I can't relocate the article. But if anyone reading this could give me concrete info, regarding where the Great Wave was set, I'd be very grateful.
I found this very interesting. I have a Kajikazawa (#32? of the 36 views) that appears to be missing the yellow that should be in the fringe of the right side fisherman's "skirt", as well as bits of "pink" on both characters skin. These are tiny sections, so, perhaps they were considered inconsequential in replacing the blocks?
I suspect that (obviously) the blocks of smaller print areas may have been slightly at risk to increased damage, if pressure were equally applied compared to the blocks of greater print area, where the increased surface area bore up better than those of lesser print areas. Just speculating. Of course the more delicate the detail, the more likely vulnerable to damage.
I dunno... those Meiji carvers were so, so good at Edo era reproductions, I really don't know how any expert can separate an original impression from a reproduction.
Hello madam, I have one piece of great wave wood block that I bought in flea market here in Japan, but im not sure if this is a real one. I been watching your you tube channel many times hoping to learn about the great wave print. Could you please help me to know if this print that I have is legitimate print of great wave. Thank you in advance..
You can search for the PDF version of this study, titled "The making and evolution of Hokusai’s Great Wave" which includes the 8 states you can check for to ascertain the provenance of your impression of The Great Wave. Let us know your findings! Good luck.
This was fascinating. (Edit: I jumped the gun - it looks like tech is being used to assist comparison) Spotting the difference (using photographic plates and blink microscope) was how Pluto was found. I think it's a great strength of the human eye. Is there any benefit in using a similar or modern version of that style in this application? Apols if you've been asked this 1000s of times. 😀
Wonderfully presented but it left me wanting for more. Did your micro analysis give you an age of the prints? The pigments used? Perhaps more information on the artist and if he left any narrative on the work(s) although you can be assured that I will be going down that rabbit hole. I always feel richer for learning about different cultures and, being more technical in nature than artistic, I especially enjoy the scientific eye. First, I will have to look up what a cartouche is. Thank you for this.
2:03 Hokusai specialist: _"...so once there was nobody interested in buying a print, they would just recycle the wood. So, scrape all the design away and carve a new design."_ Me: 🤯😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
If they were hand placing the ink, maybe someone just missed a spot when they printed that yellow layer. The red boats could be something that's changed colour over aging
There was a 2 minute version of this in the Hokusai exhibition tour, as the 2min version in the exhibition. Feel like 17 minutes longer makes this new 🤣
I'm sorry I can't see anything due to ads blocking the view of the video I know you got bills to pay but C'mon enough already one goes off and another pops up I can't afford the package deal.
Where are the credits for David Bull ?? Pretty evident, information is largely tracable to his experience,.. also, that he would have made several nuances, given more possible carefull explanations, etc. before even adventuring making some statements. Then again, him nowing what he is, (or not) , talking about does not make him a scientist..
British Museum's 3 are original because British Museum has proven this to be true. Sounds a little fishy. Maybe outside opinions would help verify (or not)?
As world knows british museum is a warehouse of historical and cultural items stolen from colonies, be it the sword of Tipu or a Japanese paintings. These items have either been stolen or illigaly taken (including forced and deceptive acceptance) from colonies, which make it's illegal for british museum to keep on display. I understand that britain is very very poor in culture, and lacks any historical wealth and glory, which is why nearly all of the items in the museum is non british, and museum is bound to display them. However, this doesn't justify the robbery done by british EIC and subsequent rulers, thus, britain doesn't have any right to keep them, so my request to british museum is to please return all the historical items to their rightful owners and countries of origin. Thanking you in advance.
ANSWER THREAD:
@Bert V asked (very much summarised) 'block carvers have been (and still are) able to patch worn out bits of a block, some also apply more than one colour to woodblocks. Could this be the case here?'
Cappucine's answer:
Thanks for your comments! As far as I know, the original keyblock used to print the Great Wave has not survived (the one in the film is a modern replica). So I can’t examine it and see whether it was repaired.
You are absolutely right: sometimes, woodblock carvers inserted plugs of wood to modify designs. For instance, they removed the heads of characters in books illustrations and inserted new ones with different hairstyles. Or they replaced a publisher’s name with another one. But this is reuse/revamping, not repair.
In my opinion, prints’ keyblocks were generally not repaired in the Edo Period. Prints were so cheap that publishers had little incentive to spend money and have woodblocks repaired. I have gone through high resolution photographs of surviving Edo woodblocks and could not find any evidence of “proper” repair on them.
I didn’t have time to explain all my findings in the film, but I observed that other lines in impressions of The Great Wave -not just the cartouche- gradually disappeared. This is always in the same areas and strongly suggests that a *unique* keyblock was used for all the impressions of The Great Wave.
Regarding the yellow woodblock, the boat on the LHS and the little section of the boat in the foreground are *systematically* left blank in late impressions of The Great Wave. This indicates that a different woodblock was used. It takes less time to apply ink all over the woodblock, rather than going through the trouble of inking some very specific areas only.
If you are interested, all the details of my findings are published in an essay available online: www.latehokusai.org/research-publication/the-making-and-evolution-of-hokusais-great-wave
I hope you have found this helpful. Many thanks for your interest!
Capucine
If
You know know where
I’m
Hokusai’s 'The Great Wave' (and the differences between all 111 of them) | Woodblock Printing 1334pm 22.12.21 ok; i will think of you when i brush my teeth. when i can be bothered that is... which will say something about the nature of the print process - clarity where clarity is required. time and effort taken if it was a print being created for a notable less than the required effort when it was a print for mass circulation... did you document the various prints to determine how the block aged? i mean; a block used to print would be easy to render so the bounding line was coherent regards the ink hitting the page... as i say; yeah yeah yeah ok........ would suggest that it al depends on the guy who wants to procure the image as to how defined the print is... and then yer correct in assuming that copies of the original block could be made... the democratization of the image isn't necessarily to be commended.
@@JJONNYREPP are you suggesting that this lady's research (as commendable as it is) has failed to acknowledge that nefarious scoundrels (for example, dodgy twentieth century woodblock cutters - sometimes from china) may have produced exact copies (fakes) of said print?
A couple years ago Dave Bull was the one who firstly got me interested in ukiyo-e. I'm really glad to know his amazing work also helped making history :)
Dave Bull is very good. It's slow youtube and you do need that from time to time
I just found Dave's Twitch stream a couple months ago. Now I am hooked. Love Dave Bull's RUclips channel as well.
@@WheelchairWilly same here, it is addictive!
I also got interested in it because of him. Now I have a picture with him, some of Daves "Originals" and actual original ukiyo-e prints.
I was blown away with the in-depth way she has studied all of these prints.
It may be common knowledge but I listened to a Japanese curator explain that the two huddled passengers in each boat are actually rowers taking a rest. The money that would be made by being first into harbour with the catch would be many times the normal rate. The two extra rowers meant that they could maintain maximum speed by continuously rotating the rowers.
The impression I received was that these were professionals who had not been caught in a storm, rather they were taking a calculated risk to make a handsome profit.
It was a genuine pleasure to listen to this continuing exploration of the prints.
Glad to see Dave Bull's work is being recognized. Also glad to see Claude Debussy featured.
At age 17-back in the early 1970s-I was taken in by the parents of a good friend (for about a year), as it was not safe to continue living with my mentally Ill parent. My friend’s father’s parents had been Japanese Missionaries, and I was fascinated by his stories, as he was with them in Japan as a young child ; born in 1927. In the living room of their Mediterranean-style home, was a beautiful old Japanese trunk, and a Samurai Sword hung over the fireplace. One day, both parents gave me a huge thrill, by opening the trunk to show me some of the treasures it contained… They knew of, and encouraged, my love of Japanese woodblock prints, and that my favorite Ukiyo-e artist was Hokusai, creator of The Great Wave, one of my favorite prints. When I saw that there were works of Hokusai in the trunk, I was in absolute awe! (They were later given to a museum, of course). But on that day, when I had the great privilege of holding small, hand-bound sketchbooks of the great Hokusai in my own two hands, I was all but trembling with excitement and wonder I can still recall, 51 years later!
This may add to the confusion or even upset the British Museum, but nowhere in this video has been mentioned that block carvers have been (and still are) able to patch worn-out bits of a block with a fresh bit or replace it with for instance a new cartouche. There are known instances of publishers' marks being replaced. This would imply that using the edges of the cartouche to date a print doesn’t apply. I think microscopic inspection of the wood structure should help (and maybe that has been done - but the video does not mention this).
Another point: some colour blocks can be used to print different colours, as long as the areas are separated enough to apply ink safely w/o running into each other. The fact that one of the boats lacks the coloration of the others could be a case of the printer skipping that, by design to save time or by chance..
Anyway - it is fascinating how much questions arise from studying this seminal piece of art and how difficult it is to answer them.
(My link to The Wave: I used it as inspiration for a record album cover I illustrated and designed in the early 80’s…)
As a vinyl addict, I have to ask you Burt. Which record cover did you design inspired by The Wave? 🧡
@@-Deena. Very obscure label: 1000 Idiots Records Netherlands. LP by The Kewi-a-Go-go Party (The KeWi’s): Life is like a Penguin. I dare you to find a picture… : )
@@bertv1205 (Always black and white), penguin loonking anxiously at his surf ice block on said wave? :p
@@k.v.7681 Yep! Executed with tacky Ben Day films (Letraset brand) for CMYK colour separation…
(ANSWER FROM CAPUCINE)
Thanks for your comments! As far as I know, the original keyblock used to print the Great Wave has not survived (the one in the film is a modern replica). So I can’t examine it and see whether it was repaired.
You are absolutely right: sometimes, woodblock carvers inserted plugs of wood to modify designs. For instance, they removed the heads of characters in books illustrations and inserted new ones with different hairstyles. Or they replaced a publisher’s name with another one. But this is reuse/revamping, not repair.
In my opinion, prints’ keyblocks were generally not repaired in the Edo Period. Prints were so cheap that publishers had little incentive to spend money and have woodblocks repaired. I have gone through high resolution photographs of surviving Edo woodblocks and could not find any evidence of “proper” repair on them.
I didn’t have time to explain all my findings in the film, but I observed that other lines in impressions of The Great Wave -not just the cartouche- gradually disappeared. This is always in the same areas and strongly suggests that a *unique* keyblock was used for all the impressions of The Great Wave.
Regarding the yellow woodblock, the boat on the LHS and the little section of the boat in the foreground are *systematically* left blank in late impressions of The Great Wave. This indicates that a different woodblock was used. It takes less time to apply ink all over the woodblock, rather than going through the trouble of inking some very specific areas only.
If you are interested, all the details of my findings are published in an essay available online: www.latehokusai.org/research-publication/the-making-and-evolution-of-hokusais-great-wave
I hope you have found this helpful. Many thanks for your interest!
Capucine
I've got one of David Bull's Great Wave prints framed on my wall
Wow, absolutely fascinating! Even just the insight into the left-right/right-left reading of the image was eye-opening. I'm very curious to see what the next phase of research into this will bring to light!
That was a very well presented and interesting production, thank you so much for sharing it. 😊
One of my favorite pieces…I fell in love with it as a child.
Great video! Dave Bull got me into looking/learning about woodblock prints, so I'm glad to see him in the video. :D
There was a slight line dent e.g. 0.1 mm and this line was printed with a light, many-strand baren and appeared as a line break on the print. Later another printer with heavier baren made it appear again that the line had never been broken.
Alternatively, there was a bit of wax or oil on the block and 100 or 200 prints then appear to have a physical line break. Later the block is washed the missing area prints.
Yet another alternative, perhaps a line is chipped, 100 or 200 prints are pulled and then a carver repairs the chip. It’s actually very easy to make a perfect repair that is undetectable in the print.
I admire Keyes, the BM, and Marks for attempting an edition chronology however there may never be sufficient information to do so precisely given that all we have is a very small sample size printed over a duration of decades.
Let's not forget the work of Capucine as presented in this video.
I find this fascinating!! Thank you for creating such intriguing content and making the massive amount of work behind exhibitions and objects more visible to the general public.
She is right. Looking at it from left to right, it looks like the boats and fishermen are escaping the wave, making their way to the right side, to safety. From right to left, it looks like they're plunging directly into the great wave.
I still find it more nuanced on the left (and I'm from the west).
This is the first (The) British Museum video where I feel I’m watching an Errol-Morris-level of discussion of image and its ...meaning. I await the next 65 minutes of filmed discussion on this topic.
I’m quite serious about this. Thank you.
LOVE the scholarship. Thankyou all!
A few years back, one of the Great Wave prints was displayed at the MFA in Boston for a few months at a special exhibit. I was surprised by how small it was and that there were several prints of it as well. I managed to get a pciture of me with it, and there was quite the line for selfies with the Great Wave
Very enjoyable presentation of an intriguing process, wear and tear of woodblock prints is really fascinating (perhaps we can see similar efforts done on the issue called Foxing?).
One point I noticed is that, during the video it is recognised that color blocks are replaced and recarved but so are keyblocks. Dating of a set of prints is then just relative to them sharing the same block set, I feel.
Thanks a lot for sharing this information with us!
What is next? I suggest having all the photos on a computer and lining them all up as layers. Then you can compare differences in the layers by making them opaque and altering the colours between layers. Overlap two and where the colours match exactly it will combine the colour of the layer above with the colour of the layer below. Where they do not match up it will either show the colour of the layer above or the colour of the layer below. This would be a quick way of showing any differences between prints.
So insightful, Hokusai's work has always fascinated us!
Academic decathlon has the Great Wave in its curriculum this year, so these little tidbits about it have been quite a treat.
Great talk, thank you so much. You have a very pleasing voice and manor of speaking. I will look for more videos by you. All the best to you.
Excellent talk about the Great Wave. She hit on some very important details, bravo!
Fascinating! Thank you, Capucine!
This really is one of the most under-valued channels on youtube. Always such fascinating content!
Another interesting story I’ve been watching Dave Bull for awhile thanks for sharing this
Thank you so much. I really enjoyed your analysis of the great wave
This masterpiece is now in Munich!
Such a great video, such a wonderful story; thank you so much for your passion and work❤
Great film and wonderful work Capucine 🧡
What an interesting investigation of this "mystery." So very involved. Fascinating.
I still can’t believe how many years went by before I noticed Mt Fuji in the background.
Fascinating. Watched the whole thing!
One of my favorite prints ever!
Fun fact. There's an American book from about 1910 about Japan and it has a genuine wood block print inside the cover. The book is cheap last I saw, so it's one way to get your hands on the real deal.
Any more information you can give me ?
At 13:50 the clouds are visible. The pink at 14:35 is even more obvious. The orangey-pink parts of both look as though they could be sappanwood dye, which is fugitive in light. Perhaps the second has another pigment that stabilised it, like safflower petals. Did you identify the pigments used to some degree by their absorption spectra?
That was superb. Thanks BM.
A fascinating insight into a beautiful picture thank you so much.
Seeing David's work here brings tears to my eyes
Very interesting, thank you Capucine this reminded me of my father looking through sheets of stamps looking for the upside down letter of number just printed in the wrong colour. There is so much we do not see
EXCELLENT!!!Very engaging throughout...thank you for your time 👉🇬🇧👈👉💎👈
"This is not an email to send to a curator on a Friday evening"
Doesn't matter which industry you work in, we've all had *that* kind of email at least once XDD
That was so much fun to listen to process and such in depth research! And it's to be viewed right to left. Who'd a thought?
So, I have a theory on the descending quality on the replacement blocks and the idea of "original" and "authentic" when it comes to prints. If you have an original (early) print it is more authentic with better detail. I would assume that makes the print itself higher value and therefore making the printer applying the block take better care. Let's say, once a popular print has it's wood block wear down, the blocks might be sold to a low-price print dealer to make low-cost prints of the popular piece. Similar to how a popular movie or video game might have been a high price on home release, might drop to half or even sub $10 price after a few years. Maybe even a "bargain release" would appear, and I assume the same would happen with prints? Blocks getting worn down? Drop the price. Missing blocks had to be recut by amateurs? Drop the price. It may not be original quality, but it's close enough for the everyday person to not notice.
This is wonderful; thank you! Is it possible to use open-air XRF (and conceivably XRD?) as part of a nondestructive path toward identifying mineral pigments?
You can do XRF! Here is an example of a similar study that was done on Red Fuji using non-invasive analysis. The paper is open access.
You say you are hunting for the earliest first impression print in the most original condition ( revealing its true colours ) but with the 111 recorded so far , which copy and in which institution do you consider to be the most unaffected by the passage of time? , ie the one showing as best you can judge , the original state? . Well done for all your hard work, much appreciated.
It's an interesting question. Of all those that display no signs of deterioration in the key block, how to date them?
I have a Dave Bull carved Wave hanging in my home. Love it.
Hello Cappucine,
i downloaded your Publication on this matter and saw the List of Sources for original Great Waves. I think i found another one which is not included in your List. The "Bayrische Staatsbibliothek" in München (Bavarian Statelibrary in Munich, Ger) should have another original Version of this Print. Maybe i came a couple Years to late and this is no help anymore. But maybe it is who knows.
Thanks alot for your great Work!
Greetings from Germany
9:13 "...this gaps disappear... it doesn't make sense..." As an amateur woodblock carver, it makes sense: the woodblocks were or (a) replaced or (b) fixed. Due to the popularity of the design, they probably got many fixes before a complete recarving of the keyblock, the most important. EDIT: in my view, they cartouche as a whole was replaced when you compare the thickness of the text, which is clearly thicker in the "fixed" version.
It must be really hard for Capucine Korenberg to explain her job to people. I sell hot dogs
This was very interesting, I own a print..had no idea about most of the variables. Great investigating.
Who doesn' t love this print. Would love to have one too...
I had no idea about the amount of prints. And I thought I was just looking at a wave. I never saw the boats.
It's getting to the point I'm thinking of pinning a comment that reads 'there are boats, and you're not even close to being the only person who didn't spot them'
I have never been interested in such detail, but I was surprised to see a small boat inside the wave. shock.
12:12 "...prominently displayed on the wall by windows..." Obviously. At that time, it didn't matter the lightfastness of colors because those were not "art to collect" but "decorations to hang and discard as soon a new one appeared, not meant to last".
Absolutely fascinating! Can the public read more about this?
I'm watching this great video with one of Dave's Great Wave prints on my office wall.
I think that Korenberg is overthinking the whole issue. I think that we are giving the Great Wall more value than what the "original" publishers gave it.
Hokusai didn't make any prints, he painted a painting and sold it to a publishing house. The publisher has to sell as many copies as possible to offset the costs of the carving and the printing process. They worked in big workshops where there were several carvers and dozens of printers working in an almost production line.
The Great Wave like many other prints of its time is a mass produced product.
Printing blocks gets damaged all the time for different reasons. From getting dropped, cracking, or splitting because the wood wasn't dry enough or warping due to rapid changes in humidity levels. The blocks that can be fixed will be fixed, the others are just replaced. And it is possible that a block (if it's not the keyblock) is simply not used.
A publisher has to make money. And if the publisher knows that they can get away with one less color, that's one less block to carve and 15 to 20% reduction of the manufacturing process. That's a significant cut in the cost of making a print that increases the publisher's profits.
Furthermore, there is no guarantee that all the prints of the Great Wave have been made by the same publisher. A publisher could have sold the blocks to another publishing house. Other publishers could have simply made their own and sold the prints in different regions of Japan. Even within the same publishing house carvers and printers change. They can also move from one publisher to the other.
This print, above all the other 35 of the series, has become iconographic, hence the academic and scientific interest in it. If such investigation is "overthinking", then more of that, please.
@@walkingstick6655 I don't think you've read my comment in full but I agree with you. I too would love more investigations and let there be more and more.
However, an investigation has to consider the historical and technical context of the subject of the investigation. Also, an investigation shouldn't be based on unverified assumption.
In my initial comment, that may or may not be accurate, I supported my thoughts with arguments. I wish you had done the same so I can learn something from what you.
@@abdelhamidcherragui I did read your comment in full. I believe she was attempting, originally, to determine the version of a set of prints owned by the museum, then turned to attempting to sequencing them, along with many other versions, by the differences. As simple as that. How is she overthinking any of this? I think that's my point. I trust that she's particularly well-versed in the interesting points that you made.
@@walkingstick6655 I understand and I believe that I haven't expressed myself clearly in my first comment. Saying that "Korenberg is overthinking..." wasn't the best way to express my actual opinion.
Korenberg was very successful in choosing the three prints of the Great Wave that the BM has to investigate. Those are definitely worth investigating.
Let me clarify what I meant when I said that she's "overthinking".
Dr. Korenberg is investigating three prints of a Hokusai painting. She's not investigating what Hokusai actually painted because the original painting is long gone. All we got are the prints. The prints were not made nor commissioned by Hokusai. And according to the records, Hokusai didn't supervise nor monitor the printing process. The prints were made by publishing houses that employed carvers and printers.
I believe that when investigating the Great Wave or any other print, one has to keep in mind the perspective of the publishing house, the carvers, and the printers. Because the carvers and the printers don't see the Great Wave in the same way we do now. To them, it was just one among thousands of prints that they are laboriously making every day.
In 14:38, Dr Korenberg showed that copy of the print where the boats are pink instead of yellow and grey. And that's not really due to anything artistic but most likely the printing house was producing them in a rush and the printer ran out of pigment. The printer happened to have that pink or reddish pigment laying around from another print and used it instead. We can never know for sure. But not knowing doesn't mean that there has to be a deep significance behind that change.
What I meant by overthinking is simply giving more value to an object that the original makers didn't really care that much about. By the makers I mean the carvers, printers, and publishing houses. An example of this would be to question the technical printing choices that a printer made while printing the album cover of The Beatles' Abbey Road. The Abbey Road album cover is one of the most famous photographs in history. But from the perspective of the technician who worked at the printing house that printed that album cover at that time, it was just another day at the job. And it's really the same for the workers inside the Japanese woodblock printing shops.
Dr Korenberg's methodology is also questionable. It is true that woodblocks accumulate damage over time. But one cannot know which print predates the other based on the damage marks because not all prints have been made using the same set of blocks. And even the same set of blocks would be sent back to carvers to mend the worn-out parts.
The damaged cartouche could have been fixed by removing it completely and inserting a freshly carved inlay. Or even better by removing it entirely and making small wood block that only has a freshly carved cartouche. It was very common for printing houses to change woodblocks for fresh ones if the old ones had significant wear marks or got damaged. Therefore assuming that a print with clear lines is older than a print with damaged lines is just wrong.
Perhaps you're overthinking this? My understanding is that there's a lot that wasn't said in this video, or couldn't be said due to running time. It's not as simple as clear and broken lines but that differentiation is the quickest way of explaining the findings in a short video. If the key blocks differed in any other ways, which would imply different key blocks, I'm sure that would have been mentioned or rather they would have been excluded from this study. All the images that were compared used the same key block, according to the published PDF that accompanied this research. Thanks to the British Museum.
This goes to the person who helped me understand Edo, I had forgotten that Japan was a Shogunate state for a long time.
I clicked on the video expecting it was from Dave Bull :)
Still extremely interesting !
This is GREAT! More in-depth information on the Great Wave that I thought could be possible. I've already made a short clip on the Great Wave, as I live in Kanagawa, although I'm more knowledgeable regarding Hiroshige's work in this area. What I'm looking to do is find for certain the exact location of the Great Wave. I think I might have found it, at the mouth of Tokyo Bay, where the Uraga Channel opens out into the Pacific. I do recall seeing someone make the same assertion, but I can't relocate the article. But if anyone reading this could give me concrete info, regarding where the Great Wave was set, I'd be very grateful.
There's a BBC doco from 20 years ago where they map their exact location of the Great Wave.
Really enjoyed this. Thank you 💙
I found this very interesting. I have a Kajikazawa (#32? of the 36 views) that appears to be missing the yellow that should be in the fringe of the right side fisherman's "skirt", as well as bits of "pink" on both characters skin. These are tiny sections, so, perhaps they were considered inconsequential in replacing the blocks?
Fascinating. Do the different inks wear away the wood at different rates? Texture or acidity?
I believe is more the pressure of application using a baron.
Fascinating!!
Great works, thanks
We can ask Hokusai himself in the movie
Hokusai ,
just released in Japan, May 2021 😆
from Auckland
I suspect that (obviously) the blocks of smaller print areas may have been slightly at risk to increased damage, if pressure were equally applied compared to the blocks of greater print area, where the increased surface area bore up better than those of lesser print areas. Just speculating. Of course the more delicate the detail, the more likely vulnerable to damage.
Keep up the good work
Dave Bull shout out!
I dunno... those Meiji carvers were so, so good at Edo era reproductions, I really don't know how any expert can separate an original impression from a reproduction.
What a fine alpine accent 💕
How were those different wood blocks aligned so precisely? Especially during the carving process, but also during printing?
alignment marks on the block on which to place the corners/edges of the paper :)
The blocks have notches in a couple of corners that are used to align the paper (which in size is just slightly larger than the prints borders).
@@TheTutch interesting, thanks!
Hello madam, I have one piece of great wave wood block that I bought in flea market here in Japan, but im not sure if this is a real one. I been watching your you tube channel many times hoping to learn about the great wave print. Could you please help me to know if this print that I have is legitimate print of great wave. Thank you in advance..
You can search for the PDF version of this study, titled "The making and evolution of Hokusai’s Great Wave" which includes the 8 states you can check for to ascertain the provenance of your impression of The Great Wave. Let us know your findings! Good luck.
@@mattsephton thank you sir!
This was fascinating.
(Edit: I jumped the gun - it looks like tech is being used to assist comparison)
Spotting the difference (using photographic plates and blink microscope) was how Pluto was found. I think it's a great strength of the human eye. Is there any benefit in using a similar or modern version of that style in this application?
Apols if you've been asked this 1000s of times. 😀
Where did the British Muesium get these?
Wonderfully presented but it left me wanting for more. Did your micro analysis give you an age of the prints? The pigments used? Perhaps more information on the artist and if he left any narrative on the work(s) although you can be assured that I will be going down that rabbit hole. I always feel richer for learning about different cultures and, being more technical in nature than artistic, I especially enjoy the scientific eye. First, I will have to look up what a cartouche is. Thank you for this.
YES. The David Bull video has bore fruit.
What is the music starting at 10:14?
It's listed under the description
It would be good to put her name on this for future reference.
Isn't it possible that the key block was replaced by a new one at some point in time?
There would undoubtedly be minor differences that would be noticed
The blocks, that is
2:03
Hokusai specialist: _"...so once there was nobody interested in buying a print, they would just recycle the wood. So, scrape all the design away and carve a new design."_
Me: 🤯😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
If they were hand placing the ink, maybe someone just missed a spot when they printed that yellow layer.
The red boats could be something that's changed colour over aging
Seven layers of cuts to make the print.
They can be repaired
David Bull in Tokyo
Even the pins and the pens are green. Most green lady
😍😍😍😍😍😍😍
A bowl of soba noodle is about 25% of minimum hourly wage.
I never brush my teeth.
😁
Get some sleep Capucine. You look worn out. Very interesting video. Thank you.
This is an interesting bit, but calling 50 hrs an outstanding amount of time is just pathetic on the scale of scientific research.
This is a re-upload. Maybe it's longer or edited differently.
There was a 2 minute version of this in the Hokusai exhibition tour, as the 2min version in the exhibition. Feel like 17 minutes longer makes this new 🤣
I'm sorry I can't see anything due to ads blocking the view of the video I know you got bills to pay but C'mon enough already one goes off and another pops up I can't afford the package deal.
Where are the credits for David Bull ?? Pretty evident, information is largely tracable to his experience,.. also, that he would have made several nuances, given more possible carefull explanations, etc. before even adventuring making some statements.
Then again, him nowing what he is, (or not) , talking about does not make him a scientist..
British Museum's 3 are original because British Museum has proven this to be true. Sounds a little fishy. Maybe outside opinions would help verify (or not)?
I'm sure the research paper that was published was validated by peer review. That's simply how things are done in the scientific community.
After watching David Bull's video on this topic, I am convinced that he is right and the British Museum is wrong
As world knows british museum is a warehouse of historical and cultural items stolen from colonies, be it the sword of Tipu or a Japanese paintings. These items have either been stolen or illigaly taken (including forced and deceptive acceptance) from colonies, which make it's illegal for british museum to keep on display.
I understand that britain is very very poor in culture, and lacks any historical wealth and glory, which is why nearly all of the items in the museum is non british, and museum is bound to display them. However, this doesn't justify the robbery done by british EIC and subsequent rulers, thus, britain doesn't have any right to keep them, so my request to british museum is to please return all the historical items to their rightful owners and countries of origin.
Thanking you in advance.