Many people are being critical of the need for the push cats. This is a VERY common practice in road building /earth moving. There are several factors that go in to the decision to use them, such as soil conditions, how much earth is being taken at a time, and equipment on job site.. My Dad and uncle were with the big road building companies during the heyday of road construction and spent many hours eating dirt in the cabless push cats of the day.
I've seen alot of this growing up in Phoenix. All of a sudden one day, there wasn't any distance between all of the suburbs anymore. These machines were at the forefront of it all.
Believe me, you work your nuts off in a pushcat if you know what you're doing. You're constantly reading the grade and making a plan of attack to keep all of the scrapers going where you need to cut. All shifting and forward/reverse and steering is done with the left hand, and the blade is run with the right, so at times it feels like you're doing kung-fu in there to keep up. The pushcat can also do a lot of fine-tuning with the scraper as it's loading. It's great fun.
These pans remind me of the machines I ran in the Army. A 4 wheel drive tractor center articulated steer and a bowl that did all the work. Tractors made by Cat or Clark and the bowls made by Euclid or Westinghouse/Letornio
Thank you! You've answered a question I've had. I've wondered why nobody does that. It's always seemed to me that would be faster but in all the videos I've seen on YT no one does. We don't have a lot of scraper action around here so I have to get my fix on YT.
Scrapers have the push bock on the back for either a dozer pushing or another scraper pushing. A 657G is a twin engine scraper with ECM controlled traction control for very limited wheel spin. This makes both engines work completely in tandem and are self loading.
мне просто стыдно за Катапилера.один скрепер 2 бульдозера толкают.у меня в бригаде было 12 скреперов Белазов и мы 2 Чуваша успевали везде.5-7 метров и в кошелки 27 кубов.на 3й отскакиваешь,он еше не успел запустить кошелку а я уже пристроился и так каждый день по 12 часов.куда бы эта хваленная техника делась?
My dad operated a 660 in the 60's, I recall that scraper when heaped holding about 54 yards if memory serves. Looked like it took those 10's about 45 seconds to do it.
You sound like those guys who throw an extra bucket full on a truck,half of it spills off the sides so technically the loading machine cycles once for nothing every load, then the truck sometimes can't raise it's box to dump, and your calling me names?????
My point WAS "over filling" can be as wasteful as under filling.....doesn't matter if I ever ran one or not.... The people in this video are hauling ass no doubt collapse from exhaustion when they get home.
I have absolutely no knowledge of earth moving equipment. But I see how it is efficient; you have specialized equipment doing each task. Those 660's don't need to lift the dirt very far, they actually just roll along most of the time while they are hauling, and when they are loading you have two extra engines available with lots of traction at that stage where it is needed. There is little or no idle time for any engine, dozer or scraper, and lastly manipulation/handling of dirt is at an absolute minimum, during and after the scrap there is even a gravity assist on the downhill. I don't know how the task could be made more streamline.
I'm pretty sure these are the largest single bucket scrapers made no? There is a reason they needa little help, they are moving a ton of material, and these units are extremely fast, can do over 40mph so it's a easy way to level terrain fast. Nice to see some of these old girls still working. Sounds like they have been repowered though.
When we used to double-push the pushers used to leapfrog, that is to say that the one behind got into reverse whilst the first one was finishing off the push as the scraper was raising its bowl. He then buttoned-up first and the other went behind him, and so it went on, alternating.
You have to love google messing up the reply feature (don't they wreck everything they touch?) Anyhow, in response to those asking about why you would use cats to load a scraper I can tell you it is simple efficiency (especially in very dry soil- clay loads nicer.) The scraper could drive for a mile and fill the bowl to nearly full or go 500 feet taking a massive bite and fill the bowl to overflowing and head off to unload. Watch how deep the operator drops the bowl and how quickly it fills. Yes, CAT makes a twin engine machine that load itself with a degree of ease (even then often they work as a team and push / pull each other.) And you can self load a single engine machine if you are patient and have some degree of skill... but while you self load and fill the bowl for the first time, the guy loading with a push cat will be making his second round... Which is more efficient? (Especially if the pushcat is working with a dozen scrapers.)
Try loading 26 heaping cubic yards in dump trucks in under 30 seconds and having the ground be relatively flat using an excavator its the right application of machinery for this particular situation.
+Walter Casol if done right the scrapers are getting loaded in under 30 secounds. Scrapers normally haul more dirt per shift then their counter part. Dont normally need a spread cat cause they spread there own dirt
Ralph had some of the nicest equipment in the business but he was a pick if you scratch one some of his operators carried a can of paint I have seen Ralph chase a operator down the haul road in his Cadillac because he had scratch his rig I always thought Ralph was a idiot..
judging by the looks of the ground after a cut they definitely need help pushing. the tens are keeping up nicely, good and steady loading what 60 yards per pan, 6-700 yards an hour. if I had a 40' cut I'm still partial to off road trucks and s big excavator. looks like a money maker of a job though ha.
So is the old man still kicking' He being a 650 man then who's 660-s are they: I see Ralph on the side so I guess he is: what about his son he have his own or working with his father; any one ever see anything of McCoys:
This must've been during the construction of that retention basin in the dunes between El Centro and Yuma about 3 or 4 years ago, huh? Those old 660's are frickin awesome! Too bad there weren't any 666's out there. I wish I could've caught some of that action.
No, Laughlin NV. This was the decommission of the Mohave Generation Station. Obamas EPA shut down this Coal Fire Plant. Part of the decommission was to shut down the water pumps that drew water from the Colorado River. This caused the project to use city tap water for the project which blew the budget $100000 worth of water bills per month over a year. Isn’t the government great! This decommission was devastating to the surrounding area to which it employed thousands of residents!
Do you want to burn coal, oil, and natural gas until there is absolutely no ozone layer left whatsoever? When will you realize that climate change is real? Do you want your kids and your grandkids to be able to breathe and to enjoy their lives. You just don’t get what is going to happen if we don’t fix this now. There are actually children born right now that will die due to climate change. The Pentagon has rated climate change as one of the highest threats to our country. You can not keep burning fossil fuels like nothing is wrong. Wake up!
Well Samuel Arnold, with hard or compact dirt such as this, most scrapers have rubber tires and don't have the necessary traction it takes to fill them. That is why all scrapers have the huge rear push bumper, for dozer assistance. In soft or loamy dirt, they can easily self load.
can see there is no RIPPERS in both D10, and if they can put the ripper in this land, scraper easily can load the soil, in these case dozers are helping to take more load by pushing the scraper, smart dozer operators, they are saving the time by not digging the soil separately,
this stuff looks pretty sandy ripping wont do it any good. Its fairly hard to load a 51 with a single 10 so i can imagine its worse with a 660 so you remove the rippers and use spring loaded push blocks for more power and quicker load times as well as larger loads
When my dad served in the Air Force in a civil engineering unit back in the late 60's, he talks about how they took the top off of a mountain in Korea this way to make a spot for a radar site. They needed to build it fast and on a level spot, and that was the most efficient way they could do it. It looks like a waste of fuel, but actually it SAVES fuel load for load!
I know this was from 2012, does anyone know where this is located? I thought that all the 660's were retired (scrapped) by now. I know the Rasmussen had some 666 back in the 1990s and ACI has those Euclids. Any info is appreciated
@@SuperDutyDave I worked for Gene ran scrappers and dozers with his boy Brent, worked for Jimmy Jenkins, Fred and Owen Vanderwork worked for Ralph Mitzel my dad was his dirt boss
@@markconn4167 Lol! Remember Dave Mead? Or Herman? Or Dave Fox? I know that Don Brown is pretty high up at Sukut. I guess Rusty retired from there too.
Un saludos cordiales a todos mí pregunta es porque dos tractores en vez de uno creó q uno es más que suficiente por la potencia que tiene él D10 porque dos genera más gastos en máquina y consbustible
There’s nothing like cutting down the edge on a 660 well your front tires shoot up in the air and you’re literally going right for the edge. I wouldn’t be caught dead on a 660 there’s a reason why they stop making them 100 years ago
651s and up are built for a 700hp D10,D11N or 850hp D11R to pushload them because they have the power and weight to do it.One bulldozer doing the pushing of 2.One of these 520hp models looks like it would over its head trying to push a 660B alone
Luke bird and hippie i think. Ya thats right luke this is lee ross. Heard your in vegas or some shit on that ames spread. That was a year ago i guess. Later
I see two things here. One is the scraper operator's desire to get a full load. Otherwise, the grade foreman will ask him what the hell is the matter, why don't you get loaded when you're in the cut? And then, there is this tool running the lead push dozer flailing his arms around wanting the operator to raise his pan and get going.
enjoy watching these guys work together, throwing hand signals, i.e. get the hell outa here. Ran some pushcat back in the day, lots of "trainees", hated hole diggers, hard on the back
Really? how so? How would there tyres go on the long haul these 3 axles are on? how many extra loads per day would they have to do to make up the 10cy more the 660B is hauling? Quicker does not mean cheaper.
I pity the floor of the scraper if they hit an un-shearable boulder under the surface, yikes---it would tear the floor out with two D-10's pushing and a 660 out front. Imagine those horses!!
I run a john deer tractor with the scraper hook up on the back to be honest the kind I run is a lil more difficult because u manually have to lift the gate with a button and you have yo lower the pan with a button and I don't GOUGE with my cuts so if anyone has a tractor like this and needs help I'm the man.
Many people are being critical of the need for the push cats. This is a VERY common practice in road building /earth moving. There are several factors that go in to the decision to use them, such as soil conditions, how much earth is being taken at a time, and equipment on job site.. My Dad and uncle were with the big road building companies during the heyday of road construction and spent many hours eating dirt in the cabless push cats of the day.
08uuiiìmmmk
I've seen alot of this growing up in Phoenix. All of a sudden one day, there wasn't any distance between all of the suburbs anymore. These machines were at the forefront of it all.
Same for me growing up in the 1980s in Gaithersburg Maryland with a lot of new development and heavy equipment leading the way.
I could watch this all day. No sun, no bugs, nobody chasing you away.....and no skipping school all day to watch.........
Believe me, you work your nuts off in a pushcat if you know what you're doing. You're constantly reading the grade and making a plan of attack to keep all of the scrapers going where you need to cut. All shifting and forward/reverse and steering is done with the left hand, and the blade is run with the right, so at times it feels like you're doing kung-fu in there to keep up. The pushcat can also do a lot of fine-tuning with the scraper as it's loading. It's great fun.
These pans remind me of the machines I ran in the Army. A 4 wheel drive tractor center articulated steer and a bowl that did all the work. Tractors made by Cat or Clark and the bowls made by Euclid or Westinghouse/Letornio
Super video. The 660s are colossal machines. Make the D10s look small in comparison. The operators make it look easy!
Francisco Francalino
Thank you! You've answered a question I've had. I've wondered why nobody does that. It's always seemed to me that would be faster but in all the videos I've seen on YT no one does. We don't have a lot of scraper action around here so I have to get my fix on YT.
Слаженная работа опытных операторов радует глаз.
.... . Mnjki9hn. Mmhg
Scrapers have the push bock on the back for either a dozer pushing or another scraper pushing. A 657G is a twin engine scraper with ECM controlled traction control for very limited wheel spin. This makes both engines work completely in tandem and are self loading.
Bs
мне просто стыдно за Катапилера.один скрепер 2 бульдозера толкают.у меня в бригаде было 12 скреперов Белазов и мы 2 Чуваша успевали везде.5-7 метров и в кошелки 27 кубов.на 3й отскакиваешь,он еше не успел запустить кошелку а я уже пристроился и так каждый день по 12 часов.куда бы эта хваленная техника делась?
wow, even the bulldozer pushing the scraper needs a push too 😂
My dad operated a 660 in the 60's, I recall that scraper when heaped holding about 54 yards if memory serves. Looked like it took those 10's about 45 seconds to do it.
Отлично организована работа звена скреперов с двумя толкачами. Молодцы!
Hjh
😊😊❤❤❤❤@@marialaurapaez9073
You sound like those guys who throw an extra bucket full on a truck,half of it spills off the sides so technically the loading machine cycles once for nothing every load, then the truck sometimes can't raise it's box to dump, and your calling me names?????
I hope they are paying the mechanics good money to keep those old 60's running dang!
My point WAS "over filling" can be as wasteful as under filling.....doesn't matter if I ever ran one or not.... The people in this video are hauling ass no doubt collapse from exhaustion when they get home.
Thanks d6r and Jimmy for the info. Never ran a D10 but did some pushing with D9Gs
I have absolutely no knowledge of earth moving equipment. But I see how it is efficient; you have specialized equipment doing each task. Those 660's don't need to lift the dirt very far, they actually just roll along most of the time while they are hauling, and when they are loading you have two extra engines available with lots of traction at that stage where it is needed. There is little or no idle time for any engine, dozer or scraper, and lastly manipulation/handling of dirt is at an absolute minimum, during and after the scrap there is even a gravity assist on the downhill. I don't know how the task could be made more streamline.
Thanks d6r and Jimmy for the info. Never ran a D10 but did some pushing with D9Gs
I'm pretty sure these are the largest single bucket scrapers made no? There is a reason they needa little help, they are moving a ton of material, and these units are extremely fast, can do over 40mph so it's a easy way to level terrain fast. Nice to see some of these old girls still working. Sounds like they have been repowered though.
airbats801 these scrapers are 100% original, no repowers
No repowers! Die in Nevada maybe? ACI's still going ruclips.net/video/pHSEQzP8ruk/видео.html Notice Side Broads!
When we used to double-push the pushers used to leapfrog, that is to say that the one behind got into reverse whilst the first one was finishing off the push as the scraper was raising its bowl. He then buttoned-up first and the other went behind him, and so it went on, alternating.
Definitely speeds up the process. Looks like you get a deeper cut, because you are able to lift the back of the scraper. Fills that baby right up
Okay one second I'm watching Whose Line is it Anyway, and now I'm at bulldozers..... RUclips recommendations are hell wierd.
Pushing one each other for increase the traction and thus move more material easily
Четкая работа. Просто приятно посмотреть.
neat video! you don't see tandem d10's pushing 60's very often. at least I haven't.
You have to love google messing up the reply feature (don't they wreck everything they touch?) Anyhow, in response to those asking about why you would use cats to load a scraper I can tell you it is simple efficiency (especially in very dry soil- clay loads nicer.) The scraper could drive for a mile and fill the bowl to nearly full or go 500 feet taking a massive bite and fill the bowl to overflowing and head off to unload.
Watch how deep the operator drops the bowl and how quickly it fills. Yes, CAT makes a twin engine machine that load itself with a degree of ease (even then often they work as a team and push / pull each other.) And you can self load a single engine machine if you are patient and have some degree of skill... but while you self load and fill the bowl for the first time, the guy loading with a push cat will be making his second round... Which is more efficient? (Especially if the pushcat is working with a dozen scrapers.)
Excellent answer, to an uninformed questioner.
Deermeyer os absolutely correct.I've run scrapers,and not getting a full can,will result in getting sent home....
Try loading 26 heaping cubic yards in dump trucks in under 30 seconds and having the ground be relatively flat using an excavator its the right application of machinery for this particular situation.
A very efficient process for moving massive material. I do a small sideline for rural property owners with the mini ex and sometimes a tracked dumper.
+Walter Casol if done right the scrapers are getting loaded in under 30 secounds. Scrapers normally haul more dirt per shift then their counter part. Dont normally need a spread cat cause they spread there own dirt
more like 54cu
The specs say that Cat 660B scraper can haul 54 yards heaping..... just fyi.
Nice scraper, fantastic scrapers 660. Congratulations! More 660 scrapers videos!!!
The biggest one I every ran was 657E. Twin ( push pull ) oil patch
Those 660's had 660 horsepower, a big V-8. Lot's of ponies here doing this loading of the scraper, somethings got to give a bit with 2 D-10's behind.
Ralph had some of the nicest equipment in the business but he was a pick if you scratch one some of his operators carried a can of paint I have seen Ralph chase a operator down the haul road in his Cadillac because he had scratch his rig I always thought Ralph was a idiot..
I would see Ralph show up to this site always after hours in his 2 door Cadillac. He never stayed long.
judging by the looks of the ground after a cut they definitely need help pushing. the tens are keeping up nicely, good and steady loading what 60 yards per pan, 6-700 yards an hour. if I had a 40' cut I'm still partial to off road trucks and s big excavator. looks like a money maker of a job though ha.
So is the old man still kicking'
He being a 650 man then who's 660-s are they:
I see Ralph on the side so I guess he is: what about his son he have his own or working with his father;
any one ever see anything of McCoys:
Don McCoy is still in Calif. Denny operates in Wyoming for Peabody Coal.
You talking Ralph Mitzel and Jaun?
Great vid, takes me back to my old D9G days tandem pushing 631Bs in Western Australia.
Really great stuff keep it coming.
2 of the Thiess 660,s are still running, go to my channel to see them
Once it's spilling over the sides pick up and fuck off your waisting time Poor dozer hands not one secound rest
This must've been during the construction of that retention basin in the dunes between El Centro and Yuma about 3 or 4 years ago, huh? Those old 660's are frickin awesome! Too bad there weren't any 666's out there. I wish I could've caught some of that action.
No, Laughlin NV. This was the decommission of the Mohave Generation Station. Obamas EPA shut down this Coal Fire Plant. Part of the decommission was to shut down the water pumps that drew water from the Colorado River. This caused the project to use city tap water for the project which blew the budget $100000 worth of water bills per month over a year. Isn’t the government great! This decommission was devastating to the surrounding area to which it employed thousands of residents!
@@heavyequipmentsavage Ooh, thanks for the info! Yeah, it's frustrating how near-sighted and punitive so called educated government twerps can be.
Do you want to burn coal, oil, and natural gas until there is absolutely no ozone layer left whatsoever? When will you realize that climate change is real? Do you want your kids and your grandkids to be able to breathe and to enjoy their lives. You just don’t get what is going to happen if we don’t fix this now. There are actually children born right now that will die due to climate change. The Pentagon has rated climate change as one of the highest threats to our country. You can not keep burning fossil fuels like nothing is wrong. Wake up!
Well Samuel Arnold, with hard or compact dirt such as this, most scrapers have rubber tires and don't have the necessary traction it takes to fill them. That is why all scrapers have the huge rear push bumper, for dozer assistance. In soft or loamy dirt, they can easily self load.
Sedated and Restrained p
Jean-Paul Savourat *
Sedated and Restrained
Sedated and Restrained lllö.
I would think if Kenny got footage of 660B a few years ago he would not have held back, my guess is this is as recent as the last week or so.
can see there is no RIPPERS in both D10, and if they can put the ripper in this land, scraper easily can load the soil, in these case dozers are helping to take more load by pushing the scraper, smart dozer operators, they are saving the time by not digging the soil separately,
this stuff looks pretty sandy ripping wont do it any good. Its fairly hard to load a 51 with a single 10 so i can imagine its worse with a 660 so you remove the rippers and use spring loaded push blocks for more power and quicker load times as well as larger loads
كنت ٢٥٠
.
We double pushed 630B's (a baby 660) with a D8H-46A and a D7F to be able to load them in the sand of Palm Springs. A long time ago..
.
Um Escrepe Caterpillar 631 - com 2- Tratores Caterpillar 50 - fazendo batedor.
Thanks d6r and Jimmy for the info. Never ran a D10 but did some pushing with D9Gs
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١،
Nice work.How old are these 660s?
When my dad served in the Air Force in a civil engineering unit back in the late 60's, he talks about how they took the top off of a mountain in Korea this way to make a spot for a radar site. They needed to build it fast and on a level spot, and that was the most efficient way they could do it. It looks like a waste of fuel, but actually it SAVES fuel load for load!
The guy in the sec dozer is smoking a joint lol
The work of the scraper unit with two pushers is well organized. Well done!
Operators are well experienced
No dought, my dad was a cat operater. And he said in order to be good, u had to be gentle when pushing
must be some amazing forces on the cutting edge of that scraper..
What is cost per hour with one pan and two d10 working
Mitzel has some bad ass Cat Skinners
I ran for Ralph and Jaun my old man bossed for Mitzel, Fulton, Aci, Messa
I know this was from 2012, does anyone know where this is located? I thought that all the 660's were retired (scrapped) by now. I know the Rasmussen had some 666 back in the 1990s and ACI has those Euclids. Any info is appreciated
ACI still has 22 660s repowered with Detroit 60 series electronic engines in Calif ruclips.net/video/Z3EgUZ6cCqc/видео.html
Ran 660s for ACI old dirt boss named Gene Simmons in the Chino hills..
@@markconn4167 I knew Gene Simmons, but I can't remember many other superintendents other than Troy Ward and Lance Bickerstaff.
@@SuperDutyDave I worked for Gene ran scrappers and dozers with his boy Brent, worked for Jimmy Jenkins, Fred and Owen Vanderwork worked for Ralph Mitzel my dad was his dirt boss
@@markconn4167 Lol! Remember Dave Mead? Or Herman? Or Dave Fox? I know that Don Brown is pretty high up at Sukut. I guess Rusty retired from there too.
Where was this video taken? Looks like the Antelope Valley.
awesum machines ,not brought into uk though. biggest was cat 657 in uk.
these guys are moving fast moving the earth ,in a day they change the landscape earn their pay get the most out of the machines..
Those 660s are very beautiful machines...
no balls though
How bout finding video of DD9 pushing 666 scrapers at Anaconda Mine in the 60"s. That would be awesome. Thanks for putting this up, it is great!
super video!
мощности мало нужно 2 бульдозера докупать
Un saludos cordiales a todos mí pregunta es porque dos tractores en vez de uno creó q uno es más que suficiente por la potencia que tiene él D10 porque dos genera más gastos en máquina y consbustible
There’s nothing like cutting down the edge on a 660 well your front tires shoot up in the air and you’re literally going right for the edge. I wouldn’t be caught dead on a 660 there’s a reason why they stop making them 100 years ago
why two D10N? i thought one would have enough pushing power
Mobility in scooping dirt.
The 10s no black smoke. Newer
they are removing material which would be lower grade. they are taking it to an area to unload to stockpile or to raise grade
I wouldn't think he would. "New" footage of these is a good thing. That means that they're still out there working in 2012, instead of being scrapped.
Milattan kalma tesviye birde kendi çekebilse 😄
Those 660 scrapers owned by Mitzel look like they were well cared for. Better condition than ACI.
Que eles estão fazendo ai
Tão igual furmiguinhas
Cat is always impressive
651s and up are built for a 700hp D10,D11N or 850hp D11R to pushload them because they have the power and weight to do it.One bulldozer doing the pushing of 2.One of these 520hp models looks like it would over its head trying to push a 660B alone
Great video
Anyone take a guess at how many foot pounds of torque is on the ground during one pass? Seems like the planet should move or something.
avec 2 d10 ils y vont pas avec le dos de la cuiere
Luke bird and hippie i think. Ya thats right luke this is lee ross. Heard your in vegas or some shit on that ames spread. That was a year ago i guess. Later
ВЕЧНОЕ ДВИЖЕНИЕ
Whats all this for?
More homes in SoCal...
nice
The 660B was produced between 69-78..
Wow! D10 push cats!! 660s from the 1960s!!! Doesn't get much cooler!!
Fucking awesome!
who els on random video streak?
I see two things here. One is the scraper operator's desire to get a full load. Otherwise, the grade foreman will ask him what the hell is the matter, why don't you get loaded when you're in the cut? And then, there is this tool running the lead push dozer flailing his arms around wanting the operator to raise his pan and get going.
THere are 2 gas turbine power plants in the background, kinda curious where this is, I'm thinking taft area? Probably ge 7fe turbines
enjoy watching these guys work together, throwing hand signals, i.e. get the hell outa here. Ran some pushcat back in the day, lots of "trainees", hated hole diggers, hard on the back
Open air D10Ns? Dang. Operated a few of them in a coal mine. NEVER would have if they weren’t enclosed.
Watched every second. Awesome!
YOU for
dat teamwork, honored
Luv it awesome shit , that is real HorsePower not like that petrol heads with drifting cars aye ?
Really? how so?
How would there tyres go on the long haul these 3 axles are on? how many extra loads per day would they have to do to make up the 10cy more the 660B is hauling?
Quicker does not mean cheaper.
gostei sinto saudades dos velhos tempos.
Makes me want to get back on scraper again...
M Hoff sitting on a scraper was a nightmare. They beat you to death. I much prefer sitting on the dozer myself. Scrapers were for the young kids.
So, what is going to be built here that requires so much material to be moved?
Super. 💙 T.E.N.
otimas maquinas gosto muito
This looks like Nevada, west of Las Vegas.
I pity the floor of the scraper if they hit an un-shearable boulder under the surface, yikes---it would tear the floor out with two D-10's pushing and a 660 out front. Imagine those horses!!
Those two D10N's aren't big enough for my ass.
I run a john deer tractor with the scraper hook up on the back to be honest the kind I run is a lil more difficult because u manually have to lift the gate with a button and you have yo lower the pan with a button and I don't GOUGE with my cuts so if anyone has a tractor like this and needs help I'm the man.
as long as you gouge downhill its all good even if you go a bit below grade as you move back your tailings fill in the holes
Can these scrapers even operate without being pushed?
they can haul or dump for the most part but no the need it in the cut. They can self load to varying degrees but for production uses they need a push