I’ve been an RAC patrol for 27 years, Unfortunately you don’t even need to be a qualified mechanic anymore, just some basic knowledge, RAC will put u on a 6 month apprenticeship which is a mixture of classroom and practical, and on the road training. Volt drop is the corner stone to all starting and charging faults and any electrical testing, When I got the job we had a full day of practical assessments volt drop had to be demonstrated on most tests, standards have dropped drastically, time on a job is now a max 30 mins, so a lot of patrols will just bump start vehicle and send it on its way, and be seen as superstars even though it will come back in later, not the way I work as such my fix rate is good, rare I get a job back in. It’s not the company I started with all that time ago, if the management see this post I’m sure I’ll be in the shit !!!!
can’t win in any situation mate,nobody gets the right amount of time to fault find,even the garage that fitted the starter would not have been paid to do any diag,just a request to fit new starter
RAC Approved garage here - 100% know what your talking about, try dealing with warranty repairs, whole industry is an absolute joke, customer expectations are higher than ever, they think we’re miracle workers! Probably get 5+ phone calls per day asking us to diag over the phone which we all know is impossible, warranty companies expect us to work to ‘book times’ on 15 year old vehicles that are usually absolute heaps sold by dodgy dealers. We charge a higher than average rate for diags (usually charge by the hour), but trying to educate customers and get them to understand that an accurate diag isn’t just plugging the vehicle in is impossible when another garage down the road will charge equivalent to half hour for diag, just to plug in and print off fault codes…. But hey, what can we really do…?
Interesting videos. I have been an industrial electrical technician for years ! Find one fault , find the cause , you're a hero! Next week same fault , different cause , you're now useless!! What a trade!!
This is a great video and explanation of Voltage drop. Basically the higher the resistance of the lead or connection, the more voltage is dropped across it. (Voltages are dropped across components in a circuit, currents flow through them). This is why the cable to the starter motor is so thick, increased cross sectional area = lower resistance. A quick check for this common problem is to clip one side of a jump lead directly to the battery - terminal and another to the engine block, bypassing the suspect earth strap. Finally, the green deposits on the braided earth lead are a good visual indication that it is corroding and will eventually rot through.
I think all electrical processes are hard to grip buy people that are scared of dark magic. Barney is picking it up so well but it’s hard to come by a lad that wants to learn it
Great explanation of voltage drop . Starter is probably worse that the original one removed. Quality of parts especially rotating components is ludicrous.
Good working practice Rob, just shows how you can track a fault, and with a wire brush and new bolt should have been back up and running. trouble is some garages just have fitters not mechanics, who just throw parts at the problem.
@@rmsdiagnostics I had one the same my mate fitted new starter left the dowel in the old one same noise.Fitted another starter thinking new one was bad but same noise .I moved its poition and worked fine.You always need to look closely at what you are doing
like I said a lot of places don’t even entertain the jobs and I can’t blame them to be honest,last of workers don’t make it easy either,hope your well mate
this is the closest I have come to thinking I might be giving to much away,not only from myself but other sparkles that make a living from this type of fault,this looked more like a training video in the end🙈
Do you know something I’ve only just watched this as my first video of yours and I’m absolutely taken aback as to how right on the money you are with you’re opening statements about garages not wanting to get involved due to loosing money hand over fist and it’s a shame to see them struggle I have worked in several garages as a diagnostic technician and only that simply to reassure and help garages diagnose items properly and be confident at it it’s unfortunate but this trade has so many variables and different technologies I genuinely see it as harder than rocket engineering that may seem an overstatement to a day to day mechanic but at the deep end in it’s utter hell to diagnose some of the problems that even main dealers can’t get to the bottom it’s a total disaster of a trade at the moment tbh 😢
thank you buddy,I’m not one for knocking other people for not knowing somthing,as you will know we are all learning but I fully understand why they have a Quick Look and send it away. we do the same aswell,pick you battles
Great video. That fault would've stopped a morris minor. The same basic diagnostic would be needed to track down the fault. The trouble is that fault codes etc mask the most basic of faults.
just so easy to get it wrong nowadays,I was shocked at the fault to be honest,I started recording and then see the fault and thought this will be a short video them😂
Classic explanation of an engine earth strap fault. Those woven flat earth leads seem so prone to this huge resistance in our damp climate. I've been out to lots of vehicles sporting new batteries, starts and alternators and all they need is a decent earth lead. A good trick is to clamp and earth lead to the block and the battery negative terminal to give another earth path. VAG group's especially seem to have earth leads that aren't man enough in my experience.
My only thought is that if I had rectified the earth high resistance fault and I still had a problem, I would have tested the +12V to the starter motor under load in the same way. Any resistance in the +12V side of the circuit might mean that the starter wasn't spinning up to full speed and thereby not fully engaging with the flywheel.
it was under load when we was checking the earth and it was showing full voltage to the bad side of the earth path,but yes it would have been worth checking.also I might have checked it I can’t really remember but we don’t always film every test,apparently these have a dowel that sticks in the old starter and does not come with the new starter,common issue so people say
Engine ground missing wouldnt damage the new starter The fact that with the ring gear gone it had probly burnt out the old one where they were strugling to start it for the last three months
@@stevebarnes8905 Thanks , from all this it seems the correct testing was not done and the garage responsible for the s/motor change then did not inspect the pinnion and then ring gear,or did they ? have seen ring gear problems diagnosed when it is the overrun clutch ,
I cant believe any mechanic wouldnt have checked for earth when a new starter didnt run not in a sopisticated way like you but a jump lead to the block is basic roadside diagnostics Plus its a well known fault on the renault vivaros
Nice one Bob. Sorry mate, but, like me. you may remember when Lucas stood for quality, not any more I'm afraid. Lucas is just an old decent brand name applied to Chinese or Eastern European junk.
this was one video I was thinking am I giving to much away🤷♂️🤷♂️ but there are many trining videos available online of the people are wanting to learn this stuff
Hopefully it won’t be back for a crank and no start. Those flywheels on the R9m 1.6 engine can be fitted 180 out ( stupid design ) won’t start unless fitted the correct way around
Years ago while working in a VW dealership the RAC towed a golf in saying it needs a new starter motor.Taking their word for it I fitted one, but it still wouldn't crank.On further investigation I discovered a hole in the engine with a con rod sticking out.
I put a rod through the side of my vivaro and the rac refused to send recovery untill they had diagnosed first as it was 2 in the morning i got the roadside assisyance to call me and sent him a pic of the conrod laying on top of the oil cooler he then agreed i needed recovery
If you disconnect the main negative cable from the battery and measure the resistance between the cable and engine block you know staight away if you have a bad earth.
I knew straight away with disturbing any connections and possibly loosing the fault,volt drop under load is far more accurate that resistance checking.
I’ve been an RAC patrol for 27 years, Unfortunately you don’t even need to be a qualified mechanic anymore, just some basic knowledge, RAC will put u on a 6 month apprenticeship which is a mixture of classroom and practical, and on the road training. Volt drop is the corner stone to all starting and charging faults and any electrical testing, When I got the job we had a full day of practical assessments volt drop had to be demonstrated on most tests, standards have dropped drastically, time on a job is now a max 30 mins, so a lot of patrols will just bump start vehicle and send it on its way, and be seen as superstars even though it will come back in later, not the way I work as such my fix rate is good, rare I get a job back in. It’s not the company I started with all that time ago, if the management see this post I’m sure I’ll be in the shit !!!!
Time on a job 30 minutes.
Time to get to a job 6.5 hours+
This does not surprise me mate. An an annual renewal js sky high these days to.
can’t win in any situation mate,nobody gets the right amount of time to fault find,even the garage that fitted the starter would not have been paid to do any diag,just a request to fit new starter
RAC Approved garage here - 100% know what your talking about, try dealing with warranty repairs, whole industry is an absolute joke, customer expectations are higher than ever, they think we’re miracle workers! Probably get 5+ phone calls per day asking us to diag over the phone which we all know is impossible, warranty companies expect us to work to ‘book times’ on 15 year old vehicles that are usually absolute heaps sold by dodgy dealers. We charge a higher than average rate for diags (usually charge by the hour), but trying to educate customers and get them to understand that an accurate diag isn’t just plugging the vehicle in is impossible when another garage down the road will charge equivalent to half hour for diag, just to plug in and print off fault codes…. But hey, what can we really do…?
Interesting videos. I have been an industrial electrical technician for years ! Find one fault , find the cause , you're a hero! Next week same fault , different cause , you're now useless!! What a trade!!
exactly
Great diagnosis skills 👍👍
thank you 🙏 🙏
This is a great video and explanation of Voltage drop. Basically the higher the resistance of the lead or connection, the more voltage is dropped across it. (Voltages are dropped across components in a circuit, currents flow through them). This is why the cable to the starter motor is so thick, increased cross sectional area = lower resistance. A quick check for this common problem is to clip one side of a jump lead directly to the battery - terminal and another to the engine block, bypassing the suspect earth strap. Finally, the green deposits on the braided earth lead are a good visual indication that it is corroding and will eventually rot through.
I was expecting that green to be the fault, the cable was solid and it just come down to the build up of corrosion
you sir... are so god damm good at your job. Another excellent video...by far my favorite you tube channel.
thanks for sticking with us
Good process. I use this all the time at work. The younger people in the shop struggling with volt drop. Excellent video
I think all electrical processes are hard to grip buy people that are scared of dark magic. Barney is picking it up so well but it’s hard to come by a lad that wants to learn it
Great explanation of voltage drop . Starter is probably worse that the original one removed. Quality of parts especially rotating components is ludicrous.
Great point!
Good working practice Rob, just shows how you can track a fault, and with a wire brush and new bolt should have been back up and running. trouble is some garages just have fitters not mechanics, who just throw parts at the problem.
exactly mate
Alignment dowel left in old starter, ask me how I know😂, great video as always 👌
I called the mechanic and he thought the same👌👌
@@rmsdiagnostics I had one the same my mate fitted new starter left the dowel in the old one same noise.Fitted another starter thinking new one was bad but same noise .I moved its poition and worked fine.You always need to look closely at what you are doing
It still amazes me how many people don’t load circuits when VD testing great work as always Sherv
like I said a lot of places don’t even entertain the jobs and I can’t blame them to be honest,last of workers don’t make it easy either,hope your well mate
Quality diagnostics, really enjoy watching the methodical fault finding and with your explanations. Top job.🥕🥕
Thanks 👍 🥕🥕
You are imparting a wealth of knowledge. Just goes to show how the basic methodology of fault finding works.🥕🥕
this is the closest I have come to thinking I might be giving to much away,not only from myself but other sparkles that make a living from this type of fault,this looked more like a training video in the end🙈
Do you know something I’ve only just watched this as my first video of yours and I’m absolutely taken aback as to how right on the money you are with you’re opening statements about garages not wanting to get involved due to loosing money hand over fist and it’s a shame to see them struggle I have worked in several garages as a diagnostic technician and only that simply to reassure and help garages diagnose items properly and be confident at it it’s unfortunate but this trade has so many variables and different technologies I genuinely see it as harder than rocket engineering that may seem an overstatement to a day to day mechanic but at the deep end in it’s utter hell to diagnose some of the problems that even main dealers can’t get to the bottom it’s a total disaster of a trade at the moment tbh 😢
thank you buddy,I’m not one for knocking other people for not knowing somthing,as you will know we are all learning but I fully understand why they have a Quick Look and send it away. we do the same aswell,pick you battles
Oo I didn’t know that trick about the volts showing on the meter if the earth is weak, very good nWo 👍😀
Glad to help
Yes, a proper diagnostic strategy video, lov watching this sort of stuff. Figuring out what the root cause was good work, lads
Glad you enjoyed it
Yep that was a good example of voltage drop, I enjoyed that.👍
Glad you enjoyed it
Perfect Friday evening Rob, pepperoni pizza and a great tech lesson. Thanks mate.
glad you have a nice evening mate
Excellent video mate very informative keep them coming 👍🏼
I will try,thanks
Great video. That fault would've stopped a morris minor. The same basic diagnostic would be needed to track down the fault. The trouble is that fault codes etc mask the most basic of faults.
just so easy to get it wrong nowadays,I was shocked at the fault to be honest,I started recording and then see the fault and thought this will be a short video them😂
Classic explanation of an engine earth strap fault. Those woven flat earth leads seem so prone to this huge resistance in our damp climate. I've been out to lots of vehicles sporting new batteries, starts and alternators and all they need is a decent earth lead. A good trick is to clamp and earth lead to the block and the battery negative terminal to give another earth path.
VAG group's especially seem to have earth leads that aren't man enough in my experience.
it’s a nice process to use in many electrical tests,
Good video, and I learnt something, thank you mate.
Glad I could help🥕🥕
Brilliant Rob 👍🏻👍🏻
thanks buddy
Love it well done..
Thank you! Cheers🥕🥕
Brilliant 🧑🔧👍🥕
thanks
Another great video.
Glad you enjoyed it🥕🥕
3:17 good stuff that.
thanks buddy, it’s a great test
Very helpful
thanks mate
My only thought is that if I had rectified the earth high resistance fault and I still had a problem, I would have tested the +12V to the starter motor under load in the same way. Any resistance in the +12V side of the circuit might mean that the starter wasn't spinning up to full speed and thereby not fully engaging with the flywheel.
it was under load when we was checking the earth and it was showing full voltage to the bad side of the earth path,but yes it would have been worth checking.also I might have checked it I can’t really remember but we don’t always film every test,apparently these have a dowel that sticks in the old starter and does not come with the new starter,common issue so people say
Another great video....👍
Glad you enjoyed it 🥕🥕
@rmsdiagnostics jobs a carrot ....🤣
Every day is school day watching Robs gaff.. Who knew?
and for me😂
Great video as always. I find lucas crap like elstoke from gsf. I'm shaw it comes from the same place
possibly mate
Great video
Glad you enjoyed it
👍👍
Cool dude
thanks
Great Video, I better stock up my carrots for sunday night Case Study! 😁😁🥕🥕
😂😂
Will the engine ground have damaged the new starter eventually , enjoyed the vid, cheers
Engine ground missing wouldnt damage the new starter
The fact that with the ring gear gone it had probly burnt out the old one where they were strugling to start it for the last three months
@@stevebarnes8905 Thanks , from all this it seems the correct testing was not done and the garage responsible for the s/motor change then did not inspect the pinnion and then ring gear,or did they ? have seen ring gear problems diagnosed when it is the overrun clutch ,
apparently these has a dowel fitting that can stay in the old starter so maybe not aligned correctly 🤷♂️
I cant believe any mechanic wouldnt have checked for earth when a new starter didnt run not in a sopisticated way like you but a jump lead to the block is basic roadside diagnostics
Plus its a well known fault on the renault vivaros
who knows mate🙈🙈
Nice one Bob. Sorry mate, but, like me. you may remember when Lucas stood for quality, not any more I'm afraid. Lucas is just an old decent brand name applied to Chinese or Eastern European junk.
I don’t normally fit parts but I suppose Lucas is not the original brand anymore
Ive seen worse earth straps b4.... 🤔🤔,
Bad Earth yes would put charging faults, electric and steering faults.. ecu coms faults, can be countless...
the strap was fine,just a build up or corrosion on the gearbox mounting
So you just have one end of the multimeter on an earth point while you’re touching the other end around the vehicle here?
One end on negative terminal and the other just move along the known path until the voltage stops showing,
@ great stuff, just need some longer multimeter cables now 😂 thanks for your help
Giving trade secretes away LOL . BUT UR HONEST
this was one video I was thinking am I giving to much away🤷♂️🤷♂️ but there are many trining videos available online of the people are wanting to learn this stuff
Hopefully it won’t be back for a crank and no start. Those flywheels on the R9m 1.6 engine can be fitted 180 out ( stupid design ) won’t start unless fitted the correct way around
😖😖
Years ago while working in a VW dealership the RAC towed a golf in saying it needs a new starter motor.Taking their word for it I fitted one, but it still wouldn't crank.On further investigation I discovered a hole in the engine with a con rod sticking out.
I put a rod through the side of my vivaro and the rac refused to send recovery untill they had diagnosed first as it was 2 in the morning i got the roadside assisyance to call me and sent him a pic of the conrod laying on top of the oil cooler he then agreed i needed recovery
😂😂
Everything you say is 100% except about lucas being good! Maybe in 1990 but not now, Lucas is just cheap Chinese crap now.
I don’t fit part much and yes apparently Lucas is not a well respected brand anymore
@rmsdiagnostics I'm the same don't fit parts just diag only!
If you disconnect the main negative cable from the battery and measure the resistance between the cable and engine block you know staight away if you have a bad earth.
I knew straight away with disturbing any connections and possibly loosing the fault,volt drop under load is far more accurate that resistance checking.
His method is perfect and the exact way to test this under load, Resistance isn't the best option.