Love the channel and tests. As a vet myself i'm sure we have both heard every expletive ever invented but I really appreciate your professionalism in keeping that in check and thus produce videos I will let my kids watch.
@@WhiteTrashTennesseenothing wrong with guns in and of themselves. They're inanimate objects, if you haven't noticed. Violence can be a sin but then again violence (war/home defense) can be necessary to prevent evil from winning the day. If these two points aren't obvious to you (and igmo that thumbs-upped your comment), you're on the wrong site. Holy Moly.
This is one of my favorite vids. The shape of the xtreme defender and the honeybadger for me represent the future of defensive ammo. This design negates the validity of hollow points because they simply fail with just a few layers of cloth, sheetrock, fibers, and these will make it so much more reliable and consistent. The temporary cavitation of the underwood is bigger than a hollow point and longer as well. Dont leave home without them!! Thanks for the great vid!! And for your sacrifices !!!America!!!
@@Minuteman4Jesus120 or 135 or 200 gr (.45 ACP)? What about Federal HST that I hear about constantly? What about Underwood over penetration concerns? A lot of Underwood analysis envisions "bear country" scenarios. I assume you're good with this type of round for self - defense vs humanoids?
Using these rounds for self defense makes me VERY nervous. We set up 5 pieces of Sheetrock and the 9mm extreme defender punched right through, barely even slowed down. Personally, I'm not gonna carry a round with that type of over penetration. I live in an attached house in an urban area, and I really don't want to inadvertently kill my own kid or one of the neighbors. Same reason that my fallback shotgun is loaded with mini shells.
.380 has been a viable defense weapon for a long time bud trust me if you know how to shoot you can pretty much put a man down with 1 shot of FMJ from any caliber
Great test! I have carried Federal HST 230 grain + P in my full frame Sig Sauer P 220 for years. 7 of us here in SLC, UT now carry the Underwood Extreme Defender 120 grain 45 caliber round. Five (including myself) have a full frame, and two carry a Compact 45 caliber pistol. It would be great to see a Paul Harrell type "meat test".
Oh Lord, would that be a beast! Maybe law enforcement will get em' first? But you could definitely shoot through both sides of your house and still drop and elephant.
There is a video with a guy that machined some and loaded them in a 12ga. I'm sure you could find it if you searched for a while. I think it came out about a year ago
ZzBiohazzardzZ There's actually a local former officer who, believe it or not, had his leg amputated after shooting himself in the leg with a .22lr. I don't want to get shot with a BB gun, personally
.22 was made to deflect off bones and cause more damage.but my biggiest fear is walking through the woods and someone slinging an arrow and it not going all the way through. even if it did the hole arrows make these days are brutal
.22 long rifle was made first in 1887, it was not designed to deflect off bone, it was made to shoot squirrels, rabbits, and other small game without making them explode like .44WCF(.44-40), or .45-70 did. It as actually designed to do LESS damage. The only reason it does deflect *sometimes* is simply because it's an unjacketed lead bullet, which is 1. How all bullets were made in the 19th century, 2. Why .22lr is so cheap: rimfire, no bullet jacket, very little powder used.
Judging by this and several other tests I've seen from these Lehigh rounds it seems that they retain KE extremely well until they hit something wet and/or squishy, at which point the geometry causes the projectile to dump KE at a high (and impressively consistent) rate, resulting in highly consistent penetration and wound cavity.
This is the video that convinced me to switch to the Underwood Xtreme Defender for my carry weapon. The bullets in my rounds look slightly different on the nose, not sure if that's a difference between the 10mm Auto and the 9mm bullets in this video, or a change they have made since this video was produced 7 years ago. The bullets I have are completely flat on the end, whereas the ones in the video seem to have small protrusions. From one Iraq Veteran to another, thank you for an excellent and informative video. That's some good ballistic science!
Fast forward to 2022 there not really a gimmick brand at all anymore. Controlled chaos, maximum expansion, and the great xtreme defender/penetrator are all super awesome loads that fit their niches very well.
Yes, they're pretty spectacular. Better bullet than anything else for defense from humans or animals. Penetrator is probably better for larger beasties where that long deep wound and bone destruction can work out. Defender causes more expansion and dumps energy much much faster once it hits flesh, with very little worry of overpenetration and collateral (look up tests or perform them on pig carcass and such)
@@kai-vp8mz what are the controlled chaos rounds? I’ve heard of them but I’m not sure what they’re designed for. Haven’t been able to find as much information on them as the XD and XP
Replying in March 2023. I agree. The service calibers didn't really need the revolution that much but where it really became a game changer was in the marginal pocket carry calibers; .380acp and .32acp. Even the disdained .32acp in the Underwood Xtreme Defender cartridge consistently satified the FBI penetration standard.
can't find hst anywhere where I'm at locally and shipping cost is ridiculous. right now I'm carrying winchester defend in my shield 9 and Hornaday custom in my tp9sa
Eric: thank you so much for making these. You're doing all the tests and shot setups that most of us would love to do, but can't because we only have access to public shooting ranges. Big salute!
Lehigh Extreme, Underwood Extreme and the like ammo has brought the 380acp, Short Barrel 9mm, Short Barrel 45acp, and 38spl Snubs to life. 13-17 inches in Ballistic test.
You’re really getting better every year. Keep up the great Work. They call it has great potential, I could easily see it quickly going into African calibers.
Glad to see someone finally realizing the importance of the temporary cavity. Flesh does not stretch way out and recover without severe damage. That's why you have blood shot meat in a game animal.
I'm a critical defence guy. I've been useing them in my .357 mag for 4 years and I like how they preform. Unfortunately I've had to use my gun and well the crit defs preformed well and me, my son, and ex girlfriend are still alive.
Personally, I am *relieved and encouraged* by Lehigh's decision to pare down the *penetrating* capabilities of this round. I was horrified last year by the number of sporting RUclips channels that referred to the Xtreme Penetrator as a "self defense" round. Channel after channel showing slow-motion replays of the Penetrator round passing through multiple blocks of gel without slowing or dumping energy - these are NOT the properties of a Self Defense round, unless you are well and truly alone. That said, this new Xtreme Defender round has hit a sweet spot, in my opinion. As your field tests have demonstrated, the capability to ignore an initial obstacle and penetrate to a known distance consistently, while causing a large initial wound cavity is damn near ideal. I would hesistate to use this round in my home (where I believe 12ga birdshot or hollow-point .45 excell) but in a public space as a concealed carry load, I can't imagine a better round. The ability to ignore an initial obstacle (storefront glass, auto glass, light building material, vanity/deco construction material) and penetrate to an average depth that represents the width of a single attacker every time is a feature not to be ignored. Well done, Lehigh.
@@MustyChalupa This is a 7 year old comment dude. Things change. But have you seen how many walls a slug will go through? I've got a family and I'm not trying to kill the neighbor's dog from my living room. I'm anticipating putting a lethal dose into a home intruder from appx 2 meters away, where 90+ % of engagements happen. Birdshot, 00 buck, or a slug designed for expansion would work just fine.
Cut my teeth with the 1911, 20yrs exp. Rifle and pistol, my everyday carry, CZ97B COR BON DPX . I'm impressed 😁 with this ammo!!!! DAMN..... GET SOME!!!! Awesome 👍 video, thank you
I've always been a .45 caliber fan, that's what i carry, & of course favored .230 grains of leaded pain relief. However, now that I'm learning about this new ammo, I'm preparing to make the switch. I appreciate your time spent in making this and other videos, thank you.
I keep seeing that CZ 97 in your videos and love it. It's minor gripe , but I wish it came with a rail so I could mount a light and keep it as my go-to in the home.
I carry 124 gr Speer Gold Dot 9mm in my Glock 19 and 135 gr Gold Dot 38 special/357 magnum in my Smith and Wesson model 60 pro series. I have tested many hollow points over the years and the Gold Dot has always shined. The Hornady XTP is also a decent bullet but it doesn't open as much and penetrates more so I use it as a hunting bullet in my 357 carbine. Remington Golden Sabre is decent but they have a tendency to lose their jacket. If they didn't do that, it would be another great pd bullet. I've never tried the types of bullet you tested. I'm kinda a hard sell with new types of bullets. I've found what works so I stick with them. There is a lot to be said about barrier penetration though.
The only thing better than my Underwood .45ACP +P+ Extreme Defender ammo is Underwood 10MM Extreme Defender ammo! This stuff is the last EDC ammo you'll ever need!
Excellent video guys! I love these informative style videos, I know you made the point of saying "not many people are really going to have to shoot through a door of window of a car" but what I took from this video is what's going to happen if someone is shooting at you! I mean I knew that a car door wouldn't provide much cover however I did think it would do a better job than it did! Great work guys and congrats on your million subscribers!
Bullets just leaves a straight hole in pork shoulders indetical to a FMJ round in the same tissue. Ballistics gel tears after it stretches a certain amount, this ammo exploits that. Someone really needs to make a video and show what we found at my brother in laws farm...The Lehigh Xtreme Defense and Pentrators, shot in meat, leave wound paths that are indistinguishable from FMJ / ball ammo. The hollow points left far larger cavities / wound paths in our stack of butchers throw away meat.
testing2741 well usually meat from the butcher is drained of body fluid such as blood I’d bet the extreme defender would create a greater wound channel in something that was alive and not butchered and cut up just a thought to your comments we all know ballistic gel isn’t the best tell tale of damage the bullets flutes rely on pressure from body fluid that’s forced outwards to create a bigger wound channel
MrMarrok657 I’ve seen tests with that done and it’s a solid bullet it does great plus you can say that about any round like hollow point can lose thier integrity and ball penetrate to far but with this round you get penetration through bones and barriers without over penetrate or losing shape with hollow points
13:09 G9, the maker of an older, similar solid copper fluid transfer type of round, calls these EHPs, or External Hollow Points. Instead of the hollow being carved into the center of the meplat, the hollow is cut out of 4 external sections of the meplat and nose of the round. That breaks the hollow up into quarters, and puts those quarters on the outside of the bullet nose. It turns the hollow point inside out. And it also leaves a hard copper spine running up the center of the bullet, which is key to achieving reliably deep penetration. EHP is a great acronym for this entire class of ammo (similar to JHP), but G9 probably copyrighted it, and now their website is down.
Me and my wife are both rocking lee high max exp. me in my glock 41 and her in glock 30s, I first found this ammo at Bear Arms Shooting Range, Brevard, NC and the firearms instructor praised the stuff even open up his edc and showed me his mag packed to the brim of them. 2 years later I have not found any thing that comes close to compare it with. Thanks for the video I'm going have to maybe load my back up mag with this stuff, just in case the first mag has the enemy runing for cover! Thanks for all the hard work!
I'm literally just saying what it says on the website. Also, performance is not soley based on muzzle energy. For the record though, .45 acp has 477-700 Joules of energy typically. 10mm has 600-1,000 Joules.
I like to think of these rounds as already expanded 9 mm going way past +P+ speeds. With the added kicker that the bullet will force even more expansion in soft tissue and is essentially barrier blind. An also added benefit is in say my Glock 30S is a weight savings of over 2 1/2 ounces in carry weight using this ammo vs 230 grain ammo. Win win in my estimation.
As a j-frame carrier in the summer here in AZ I would like to see some .38 loads from underwood/lehigh tested. I love my Gold dots but it would be nice to have a selection for the snubbie.
I'm a firm believer in the Glaser Safety Slug silver tip by Corbon. I carry it in all my pistols, J-frame K-frame N-frame and .380 and .45acp. I'm a retired police officer and have seen with my own eyes the effect of one of these.
With higher velocities related to lighter projectiles in these Lehigh designs, the .38 special would be a lot more formidable I think. Might have to hand-load stuff to your own liking before this is made a reality?
That was a great test I I really like that Bravo! The shooting at the beginning of this video to when you did the watermelon in the 2L pops I wish I could shoot that well!!!
I'd love to see how the 9mm and 380 versions of this round perform in small carry guns that have become popular these days. I personally carry a sig p238 and am curious how the 65 gr bullet does in real world testing
I'm really glad you guys tested this ammo. The Lehigh ammo has peaked my interest ever since I discovered it last year. And since I wondered what the difference was supposed to be between the Extreme Penetrator and the Extreme Defender, now I know which one to stock up on: the Defender. Thanks for making it crystal clear for me!
I've been carrying heavy weight RIP rounds in my 45 XD. Never really tested them. Had a break in and they were what I had loaded. They worked and didn't overpenetrate for my situation so I never changed them.
It puts it in the watered down 357 magnum range. Full power .357 magnum would have much more energy than this. Full power .357 out of a 4" or so barrel should get a 125 grain bullet going ~1,600 feet per second.
Energy isn't everything here. The projectile doesn't deform, so everything it has is being directed at the footprint it makes upon impact, driving it through. Which means, less energy lost on barrier objects and higher velocities retained through those objects, to ensure good cavitation will result beyond in fluid-like targets. That's not something typically possible with most expanding nose lead-based projectiles, no matter the total weight-x-velocity energy numbers.
Eric, I have to say that I truly appreciate you and all that y’all do. 🇺🇸 son of a Nam Vet, raised on a farm in NC, grew up on guns and hunting, self employed builder. I really like your research. Thank you sir. Btw. My edc is .45acp I needed to know this
Great test, loved the overall treatment , testing each step clearly and to the point. Thanks for the work you put in, it shows with the in-depth look and results to draw our own conclusions.
It's too hard to tell if this ammo is a gimmick. handgun bullets only seem to damage what they physically hit in practical applications. ballistic gel is decieving
I'm pretty sure any bullet will only damage what it physically hits, bud. XD I'm just messin with ya, I'm guessing you mean like as far as the temporary cavity and whatnot in gel goes, that damage isn't apparent in living creatures. This isn't exactly accurate, while you may not be able to see the damage caused by the hydrostatic shock with your eyes, it certainly has an effect. It's a similar principle to how an explosion kills you, in many cases it's not the secondary projectiles or burns that kills you, it's the pressure wave disrupting vital organs and causing them to shut down. Kindof like when you get hit really hard in the jaw and get knocked out, you're not getting knocked out from the actual impact on your jawbone, you're getting knocked out because the impact causes your head to move rapidly, which jars your brain and causes it to shut down, albeit for a very brief period.
It’s a gimmick. Just another attempt at a magic bullet. Really discredits a gun dealer that believes this stuff. If you need more power, you don’t change ammo, you change to magnum or 10mm calibers.
Whether or not the "scalloped FMJ" design of this ammunition is superior to traditional hollow-points in real world situations remains to be seen, since that data really isn't available, so synthetic mediums such as ballistic gel, synthetic bone, jugs of fluid etc are really all we have to go on. While those mediums might not exactly replicate human tissue, and the performance of the round may not be identical in living tissue and synthetic test mediums, you CAN draw direct comparisons between rounds in the same medium assuming the two tests are done in relatively controlled environments, and so far the evidence is promising. Unless you have some substantial evidence showing that these rounds perform no better than FMJ, I don't think you can really claim they're a gimmick. I get that there are people who will always think any new development in projectile technology is just black magic and snake oil, but one has to pretty much disregard 99% of available evidence to come to that conclusion. That being said, some new rounds sound well on paper, but just don't work out in real life, like the G2 R.I.P rounds, but that doesn't mean ALL new rounds are that way. Obviously shot placement is more important than the shape of the projectile when determining how capable a round is at incapacitating a living target, but the shape of the round DOES play a part, and not an insignificant one. Whether it's worth it to pay more for that increased performance is up to the individual.
Abaddon GC Gimmick: (1) Our technology is so now that “new and improved” is rarely improved or better (2) Lehigh and Underwood are not the first to try “extreme” ammo. Can’t remember the brand of ammo, but it was guaranteed to create a huge wound cavity and was a failure. (3) Veteran police officers use hollow points and tell citizens to use them since they’ve seen the results between fmj and hp
(1) I'm just not sure that is true, are you speaking in generalities or specifically on firearms/ammunition development? Everything from video games, computers, firearms, etc are all progressing at faster paces than ever before. It may seem, with all the improvements we hear about on a daily basis, that it all blends together and doesn't seem like any huge significant breakthroughs are occuring, but that doesn't mean that improvements and breakthroughs aren't happening. The fact that so many things are improved/upgraded so often that nothing seems "huge" anymore is actually a good thing, and just goes to show how quickly technology is being developed. (2) Well the name really isn't the point here, it's just marketing. What I'm discussing is the efficacy of the projectile's design. All recorded tests so far have been pretty positive and have indicated that these rounds are effective, whether they are more effective than traditional bonded hollow-points remains to be seen, but only because there hasn't been enough time to make a definitive claim one way or the other. I also don't agree with the idea of "some other new brand of ammo in the past was bad, so that means any new brand of ammo in the future will be bad", in every field there are always ideas that flop, that doesn't mean people should just pack it up and call it quits on ever making any new improvements, it just means that one idea or those few ideas didn't pan out. I'm all for approaching new and shiny things with skepticism, but that can turn into cynicism very quickly which is not a good thing at all. (3) All that says is hollow points are better than FMJ for incapacitating human targets, which is well known. That doesn't really speak to the efficacy of THIS design. The question here is, "Does the scalloped design of the Defender/Penetrator line of ammunition compare to, or surpass traditional bonded JHP ammunition?" and while the testing thus far has generally shown that yes, they definitely compare, and some even show that they could possibly be better than traditional JHP in certain circumstances, there really isn't enough data available to say one way or the other. That's why I'm saying you can't really claim they're a gimmick and have that claim hold any water.
Kristobro98 per the Hague convention it specifies ammo not designed or intended to cause imminent death, which the design of these rounds are designed to leave a larger temporary and permanent cavity than standard ball. In fact, one of their big sales points is the wound rivals hollow points. So in order to take it to NATO to be approved I don't think it would pass the trials.
guns and life of freedom that doesn't matter the US never signed the Hague treaty. And we never exactly used all NATO rounds anyway. We still have weapons in inventory in 30-06, .45ACP and .40SW
This video is fantastic!!! I was just on the phone talking to my guy that works there Justin. Guys, Underwood makes fantastic ammo. Buy the Underwood Extreme Defender for personal day to day defense. Use the Extreme Penetrator for Woods Defense and Hunting. I just ordered 10mm for my woods gun, G29 and I ordered the same for my bud that has the Colt .45 Long Judge. I'm switching over from Buffalo Bore to the Underwood Extreme Penetrator. Lastly the have reasonable shipping prices. Cheers.
Wow, what a very comprehensive video! Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for the time and effort, as well as the expense, of producing such a video. Well done!
First, some hair splitting: 120 grains at 1320-1350 fps and below 21000 psi are not typical 9mm numbers. You do not get 464-486 ft-lbs muzzle energy out of a 9mm unless it is a +p or +p+ round. You can consider the advantages of that yourself. The really important thing: the Extreme Defender essentially is a SOLID. The 9mm or a conventional .45 ACP JHP bullet really must struggle to achieve good, consistent penetration and good effectivity (=energy transfer) at the same time, and barriers usually compromise the performance seriously. The Extreme Defender complies with stringent specifications much easier, with a relatively low sensitivity to barriers that could occur in everyday situations. As a bonus, it is lead-free. This technology definitely is the future, and if the market is able to tolerate the somewhat higher production cost of these bullets, other manufacturers will catch up with Lehigh soon, offering very similar designs. In close range applications, where external ballistic properties are of no significance, heavier expansive bullets are no match to this technology.
George, the round tested in this video is up toward the top of 45 +p performance. Pressure is close to 23,000 psi. Still way below 9mm pressures. These 120 grain 45’s are going almost 300 FPS faster than a 124 grain hst in 9mm, from a 4” barrel, so I don’t understand how Zach thinks they are similar to 9mm performance. They are in 357 sig ballpark, with a much bigger hole.
I carry Glock 29 10mm when I’m camping mainly because it has the power to possibly stop a bear attack which is rare but happens , its a powerful pistol that is small and not to heavy so I can carry it all day easily, I did buy a 40 cal conversion barrel for 2 reasons first and foremost is over penetration as you mention in your videos, very important! When I carry in public I don’t want to throw 10mm thru the bad guy and into an innocent bystander or more, the 40 or 9 or even my 22 mag is bad enough !! In a real gun battle it’s hard to focus on anything Other than the immediate threat ! Your ballistic videos have helped me tremendously in solving the big question of too much and not enough! Oh yeah the other reason for the 40 conversion is expense for practice ! Thanks for the videos , Silas
You know, this video makes this ammo look really good, but I'm starting to wonder if this bullet design was driven by it's performance in GEL. You can rip that gel apary with your hands (something you really can't do with flesh,) because gel lacks the elasticity of flesh. Gel is a good tester for pre existing designs, because we can use it for comparison.. However it would be possible to design a bullet that exploits the differences between gel and flesh to represent amazing RUclips performance that might not translate to the street. I think these RUclips gel tests are REALLY selling ammo and it would only make sense for a manufacturer to try and exploit the qualifiers that impress us in gel tests...
+All Things Magnum sure it is, it being a consistent medium means you can figure out which bullets have a tendency to penetrate more and expand less or vice versa due to the consistency, an inconsistent test medium with bones and fat would be unpredictable and goes against the scientific method
Gel isn't a comparison to flesh, it's a way of consistently testing 2 different projectiles in the same medium. You can't even compare the result from one gel test to a different gel test unless it's exactly the same composition and temperature.
The fact that this .45ACP round does 1300 fps has got me sold. I love the 78 grain Civil Defense rounds too but these are probably more accurate. New fave
No, it isn't range ammo, but you want to shoot a lot of whatever ammo you're going to carry through your gun, to make sure it performs reliably. You should also practice regularly with your carry ammo. The price of this stuff makes that unrealistic for many people. You're better off finding a lower cost but still reliable hollow point round, like Winchester "white box" 230gr. JHP, which is about the same price for 50 rounds.
Eric Al 16 inches is within the 12-18 inch metric created by the FBI. if it's not past 18 inches, then it's not really an over penetrator. And it only dented the back stop, it likely lacks significant force to penetrate a person past that.
***** And in the heat of the moment i might certainly miss my target alltogether. I never mentioned hollow points, I carry hollowpoints just like most conceal carriers but to me overpenetration is not worth worrying over.
Good point Dustin since 80% of all rounds fired in self defense scenarios completely miss the intended target it seems over penetration is the least of our worries.
I have always carried and trained with Federal Premium Hydrashok rounds and HST rounds, Speer Gold Dot rounds, and Hornady Critical Duty rounds. And then I discovered the Lehigh Defense/Underwood Xtreme Defender ammo. I also saw that it was the only ammo that got a perfect score in every caliber tested, barrel length and test medium with and without barriers fired into. Penetration in every caliber and in every barrel length and in every test medium with and without barrier penetration, and with every agency that tested it, had the ammo penetrate between 12” to 18”. There was no over penetration. Including in unfrozen pig carcass’s that were close to human dimensions. And the wound channel exceeded the size in width and depth of every fully expanded hollow point projectile in the same caliber. And in spite of the round being much lighter than typical rounds of the same caliber, because it is a solid copper projectile, the round has less recoil, shoots straighter and at longer distances, has a much higher velocity. Because of that, I have now switched out all of the ammo in every handgun that I own, with this ammo. I’ll still train with the other ammo too, but this is the ammo that I will probably only use from here on out. Creating another type of ammo that can out perform this ammo will be very very tough to do!
+Jabari Hunt It sure sounds like it. Just a bigger hole. I'm sorry for saying this, but the Underwood Ammo in .357 Sig with the 125 gr. Gold Dots come in at 1520 fps out of my Glock 32. It will probably penetrate more than these. I guess these would be pretty good at minimizing overpenetration...
Excellent video! I just happen to have a box of that same ammo sitting on my desk. Well needless to say I just switched out my golden sabre hollow point ammo for my Sig 220 and loaded up 3 mags. I carry my Sig 220 a lot as my concealed gun. As a retired LEO I like the 9mm, trained and carried a 9mm most of the time. However, since retired and living in PA I've been leaning to the 45 ACP. I just feel better with the bigger gun. Thanks again for a great video. I like your comment about 1 shot kill. Because you are always responsible for each and every round that leaves your firearm. So for you guys and gals out there with high capacity 9mm mags, God forbid you get into a situation where you let loose 10-12-15 rounds, trust me you will have a lot explaining to do.
okay so whats with this whole high velocity non expanding deep penetrating self defense ammo that i have been seeing, isn't the whole point of self defense ammo to NOT go through the bad guy?
I just purchased my second Glock 30 gen 4 and been using the Hornady critical defense FTX as my carry round but I think that I’M IN LOVE!! That’s a BAD 🍑 ROUND!! It’s a MUST HAVE!!
Great video. I use Underwood +P Extreme Penetrator in my .380 Kimber Micro, and now will consider Underwood Extreme Defender for my CCW 3" 1911. Thanks
+Jesse King i understand that it may look like he is doing underwood a favor by promoting this new ammo on his channel but if he and all the youtubers dont show us the new products that are out there who do you think will? I think he is merely pointing out the potential of this new ammo thats all. No beef.
Except it isn't a paid advertisement; were it one it would be clearly labelled in the video and description. He's showcasing the ammunition, which is something he has done many times before.
the revern 1. Then use self discipline and avoid curiosity about innovation. Not his fault you indulged, I did too, and I learned a lot. Did you too? 2. Pretty interesting video, again. He simply enjoys this stuff. If it was pure shit, it wouldn't be of interest, I do think even shoot this stuff. My 9mm, hollow point cornbon dpx +p+, 115 grain, scoots along at the same speed, and is just as good at barrier penetration and performance afterwards as this 45 round. Interesting to note. Sorry, what's your bitch? I lost myself. You whining why? Just don't watch, you already know everything.
Once upon a time the hollow point was the crazy new tech that now everyone believes in. Lehigh bullets are following that same path. No gimmicks. It is a serious evolution in ammo. Great video.
147 federal HST in my Glock 17 I have 2 mags of 147 grain and 3 mags of 124 grain. I think the expansion and wound cavity are top notch and the bullet never fails to expand. That and over or under penetration are never a problem with the bullet
Thanks for the consistent, clear and complete information you give in each video. The Underwood ammo seems to be priced at bit better (interestingly enough, as Lehigh makes the projectile) and to perform a little better, as well. I'll continue to buy the Underwood for my .380 (makes this a VERY effective weapon, even for my little Kel Tec pocket pistol (which I really like and always goes bang) and I think I've found a new .45 carry and carbine ammo, as well. Good stuff, especially if you have the X-D and X-P rounds on you in different mags (like for my carbine) for different operations/needs. Combat changes so fast from exterior barrier to interior barrier, etc. Even in civilian situations like home/property intrusion and invasion. I trust your evaluations over many others. Thanks again.
Very well explained, I'll have to start referring to you as Dr. Ballistics.. you really broke it down lol... a group of organs make an organism, blood loss, making the machine fail etc etc.. Awesome details, Awesome Video... your investment in making this video was well worth the investment 👌 Thank You
I went with Hornady XTP's in my own 9mm handloads for carry because the guy over the counter had recently done a hunting outing with the XTP's and dropped a buck right where it stood.
Love the channel and tests. As a vet myself i'm sure we have both heard every expletive ever invented but I really appreciate your professionalism in keeping that in check and thus produce videos I will let my kids watch.
Right cause violence and guns is holy but better not say a bad word cause some book written by chews
@@WhiteTrashTennesseenothing wrong with guns in and of themselves. They're inanimate objects, if you haven't noticed. Violence can be a sin but then again violence (war/home defense) can be necessary to prevent evil from winning the day.
If these two points aren't obvious to you (and igmo that thumbs-upped your comment), you're on the wrong site. Holy Moly.
@@WhiteTrashTennesseewhat are you talking about bro 😂
I agree 100%.
This is one of my favorite vids. The shape of the xtreme defender and the honeybadger for me represent the future of defensive ammo. This design negates the validity of hollow points because they simply fail with just a few layers of cloth, sheetrock, fibers, and these will make it so much more reliable and consistent. The temporary cavitation of the underwood is bigger than a hollow point and longer as well. Dont leave home without them!! Thanks for the great vid!! And for your sacrifices !!!America!!!
What you just said here is exactly why I switched to Underwood years ago. There simply is no better defensive ammo for EDC.
Prosecutor will crucify you for using it instead of standard defensive ammo
@@Minuteman4Jesus120 or 135 or 200 gr (.45 ACP)?
What about Federal HST that I hear about constantly?
What about Underwood over penetration concerns?
A lot of Underwood analysis envisions "bear country" scenarios. I assume you're good with this type of round for self - defense vs humanoids?
Using these rounds for self defense makes me VERY nervous. We set up 5 pieces of Sheetrock and the 9mm extreme defender punched right through, barely even slowed down. Personally, I'm not gonna carry a round with that type of over penetration. I live in an attached house in an urban area, and I really don't want to inadvertently kill my own kid or one of the neighbors. Same reason that my fallback shotgun is loaded with mini shells.
Really like I wouldn't want to be hit by ?? What bullet would you be ok engage hit by?
Lehigh are game changers. They singlehandedly turned the .380 caliber into a viable self defense round with their extreme penetrators.
+M85FSLUVR Thought the same thing.. Even the .38 140gr are monsters..
The Glock 41, the Xtreme Defender, a 10 round mag and a quick draw holster keeps my wife safe. Best defense combo for a female ever devised.
@@chuckfrazier2007 California?
@@Hialeah1925 probably the socialist republic of NJ.
.380 has been a viable defense weapon for a long time bud trust me if you know how to shoot you can pretty much put a man down with 1 shot of FMJ from any caliber
Am very impressed- you wasted no words, very clear diction, stuck to the point, had great camera angles...I'm subscribing!
Great test! I have carried Federal HST 230 grain + P in my full frame Sig Sauer P 220 for years. 7 of us here in SLC, UT now carry the Underwood Extreme Defender 120 grain 45 caliber round. Five (including myself) have a full frame, and two carry a Compact 45 caliber pistol. It would be great to see a Paul Harrell type "meat test".
No reason you can't have both rounds alternating in you mag. Cover all situations approach.
I alternate HST’s and RIP rounds. The first one in the mag (last one out) is a hardball round for penetration through things.
I'd like to see a 12 gauge Xtreme Defender slug.
Oh Lord, would that be a beast! Maybe law enforcement will get em' first? But you could definitely shoot through both sides of your house and still drop and elephant.
Try Hornady critical defense in 410 it has power in 12 it would be . I know you didnt
I run the Hornady Critical Defence in my Benelli
M4. Has an Eotech. The pattern at 12 yards fills the 32 Mia circle with about a 4-5 inch spread.
Hells yes 👍
There is a video with a guy that machined some and loaded them in a 12ga. I'm sure you could find it if you searched for a while. I think it came out about a year ago
laughed my ass off when he did the mirror thing, "That didn't go too well for him did it?"
great video guys, keep up the good work!
Top notch video. If you don't know much about self-defense, hand-gun shooting, etc....this is a channel for you. One of the best!!!
I like how you said "you wouldn't want to be shot with this". I wouldn't want to be shot with anything!
+Paul Jameson .22 is ok
ZzBiohazzardzZ There's actually a local former officer who, believe it or not, had his leg amputated after shooting himself in the leg with a .22lr.
I don't want to get shot with a BB gun, personally
.22 was made to deflect off bones and cause more damage.but my biggiest fear is walking through the woods and someone slinging an arrow and it not going all the way through. even if it did the hole arrows make these days are brutal
.22 long rifle was made first in 1887, it was not designed to deflect off bone, it was made to shoot squirrels, rabbits, and other small game without making them explode like .44WCF(.44-40), or .45-70 did. It as actually designed to do LESS damage.
The only reason it does deflect *sometimes* is simply because it's an unjacketed lead bullet, which is
1. How all bullets were made in the 19th century,
2. Why .22lr is so cheap: rimfire, no bullet jacket, very little powder used.
Sam Moon well 22 isn't Soo cheap anymore lol
Judging by this and several other tests I've seen from these Lehigh rounds it seems that they retain KE extremely well until they hit something wet and/or squishy, at which point the geometry causes the projectile to dump KE at a high (and impressively consistent) rate, resulting in highly consistent penetration and wound cavity.
Thank You for your review! I live by the .45 caliber, and this review has helped me choose my daily carry ammunition.
Drop some mercury down in that big hollow point then seal it with hot wax
@@spankthemonkey3437nice
This is the video that convinced me to switch to the Underwood Xtreme Defender for my carry weapon. The bullets in my rounds look slightly different on the nose, not sure if that's a difference between the 10mm Auto and the 9mm bullets in this video, or a change they have made since this video was produced 7 years ago. The bullets I have are completely flat on the end, whereas the ones in the video seem to have small protrusions. From one Iraq Veteran to another, thank you for an excellent and informative video. That's some good ballistic science!
Am I not too far off in saying that the combination of Lehigh and Underwood is making a downright revolution in carry ammo?
Fast forward to 2022 there not really a gimmick brand at all anymore. Controlled chaos, maximum expansion, and the great xtreme defender/penetrator are all super awesome loads that fit their niches very well.
Yes, they're pretty spectacular. Better bullet than anything else for defense from humans or animals. Penetrator is probably better for larger beasties where that long deep wound and bone destruction can work out. Defender causes more expansion and dumps energy much much faster once it hits flesh, with very little worry of overpenetration and collateral (look up tests or perform them on pig carcass and such)
@@kai-vp8mz what are the controlled chaos rounds? I’ve heard of them but I’m not sure what they’re designed for. Haven’t been able to find as much information on them as the XD and XP
Replying in March 2023. I agree. The service calibers didn't really need the revolution that much but where it really became a game changer was in the marginal pocket carry calibers; .380acp and .32acp. Even the disdained .32acp in the Underwood Xtreme Defender cartridge consistently satified the FBI penetration standard.
Wow, and this cycles really good for how light the grain is
It would be cool to see a Underwood Xtreme Defender vs Federal HST wound cavity comparison video.
+Jake Leuty I'll be happy to shoot a comparison as it seems a lot of folks are requesting that
Awesome thank you.
+Iraqveteran8888 Thank you for making this video.
I usually run 124gr 9mm HST's in a Shield 9.
can't find hst anywhere where I'm at locally and shipping cost is ridiculous. right now I'm carrying winchester defend in my shield 9 and Hornaday custom in my tp9sa
Eric: thank you so much for making these. You're doing all the tests and shot setups that most of us would love to do, but can't because we only have access to public shooting ranges. Big salute!
Lehigh Extreme, Underwood Extreme and the like ammo has brought the 380acp, Short Barrel 9mm, Short Barrel 45acp, and 38spl Snubs to life. 13-17 inches in Ballistic test.
You’re really getting better every year. Keep up the great Work. They call it has great potential, I could easily see it quickly going into African calibers.
love that you guys include the 97bd in tests. a gorgeous firearm.
Glad to see someone finally realizing the importance of the temporary cavity. Flesh does not stretch way out and recover without severe damage. That's why you have blood shot meat in a game animal.
I'm a critical defence guy. I've been useing them in my .357 mag for 4 years and I like how they preform. Unfortunately I've had to use my gun and well the crit defs preformed well and me, my son, and ex girlfriend are still alive.
hawk6111
Critical duty much better load
Cool story. . . .
Too bad the ex made it, eh?
I use Underwood in my carry weapons. I love shopping around on their website. They have plenty good sales on self-defense ammo.
Personally, I am *relieved and encouraged* by Lehigh's decision to pare down the *penetrating* capabilities of this round. I was horrified last year by the number of sporting RUclips channels that referred to the Xtreme Penetrator as a "self defense" round. Channel after channel showing slow-motion replays of the Penetrator round passing through multiple blocks of gel without slowing or dumping energy - these are NOT the properties of a Self Defense round, unless you are well and truly alone.
That said, this new Xtreme Defender round has hit a sweet spot, in my opinion. As your field tests have demonstrated, the capability to ignore an initial obstacle and penetrate to a known distance consistently, while causing a large initial wound cavity is damn near ideal.
I would hesistate to use this round in my home (where I believe 12ga birdshot or hollow-point .45 excell) but in a public space as a concealed carry load, I can't imagine a better round. The ability to ignore an initial obstacle (storefront glass, auto glass, light building material, vanity/deco construction material) and penetrate to an average depth that represents the width of a single attacker every time is a feature not to be ignored.
Well done, Lehigh.
why the hell would you use birdshot for home defense
@@MustyChalupa This is a 7 year old comment dude. Things change. But have you seen how many walls a slug will go through? I've got a family and I'm not trying to kill the neighbor's dog from my living room. I'm anticipating putting a lethal dose into a home intruder from appx 2 meters away, where 90+ % of engagements happen. Birdshot, 00 buck, or a slug designed for expansion would work just fine.
It would be great to see the same test with the 9mm versions. Thank you so much for all you guys do. Blessings always
That auto glass test was badass thanks for doing this.
Cut my teeth with the 1911, 20yrs exp. Rifle and pistol, my everyday carry, CZ97B COR BON DPX . I'm impressed 😁 with this ammo!!!! DAMN..... GET SOME!!!! Awesome 👍 video, thank you
I'm really liking how well you guys are adhering to your standards from the first video, keep it up!
I've always been a .45 caliber fan, that's what i carry, & of course favored .230 grains of leaded pain relief. However, now that I'm learning about this new ammo, I'm preparing to make the switch. I appreciate your time spent in making this and other videos, thank you.
Did you ever switch to the XD?
I would love to see their 40 S&W 115 Grain Xtreme Defender tested.
HOLY CRAP THE WROTE IN TEMP HUMIDITY AND ELEVATION THANK YOU. that is true testing
The 10 mm underwood against bulletproof glass is bad ass, so is the 9mm, I'd like to see the 40
thanks. these kinds of videos mean alot to many of us who cannot aford to do these kind of tests ourselves.
I keep seeing that CZ 97 in your videos and love it. It's minor gripe , but I wish it came with a rail so I could mount a light and keep it as my go-to in the home.
I carry 124 gr Speer Gold Dot 9mm in my Glock 19 and 135 gr Gold Dot 38 special/357 magnum in my Smith and Wesson model 60 pro series. I have tested many hollow points over the years and the Gold Dot has always shined. The Hornady XTP is also a decent bullet but it doesn't open as much and penetrates more so I use it as a hunting bullet in my 357 carbine. Remington Golden Sabre is decent but they have a tendency to lose their jacket. If they didn't do that, it would be another great pd bullet. I've never tried the types of bullet you tested. I'm kinda a hard sell with new types of bullets. I've found what works so I stick with them. There is a lot to be said about barrier penetration though.
The only thing better than my Underwood .45ACP +P+ Extreme Defender ammo is Underwood 10MM Extreme Defender ammo! This stuff is the last EDC ammo you'll ever need!
Excellent video guys! I love these informative style videos, I know you made the point of saying "not many people are really going to have to shoot through a door of window of a car" but what I took from this video is what's going to happen if someone is shooting at you! I mean I knew that a car door wouldn't provide much cover however I did think it would do a better job than it did! Great work guys and congrats on your million subscribers!
Fantastic review guys ! Keep up the good work!
I love the shot of them taking the windshield away
Bullets just leaves a straight hole in pork shoulders indetical to a FMJ round in the same tissue. Ballistics gel tears after it stretches a certain amount, this ammo exploits that. Someone really needs to make a video and show what we found at my brother in laws farm...The Lehigh Xtreme Defense and Pentrators, shot in meat, leave wound paths that are indistinguishable from FMJ / ball ammo. The hollow points left far larger cavities / wound paths in our stack of butchers throw away meat.
i live in the suburbs now guys, it aint worth it.
I always Wondered?
testing2741 well usually meat from the butcher is drained of body fluid such as blood I’d bet the extreme defender would create a greater wound channel in something that was alive and not butchered and cut up just a thought to your comments we all know ballistic gel isn’t the best tell tale of damage the bullets flutes rely on pressure from body fluid that’s forced outwards to create a bigger wound channel
brian buchert well gel only simulates live muscle tissue. No bone, pop a pork shoulder blade or breast plate and see what happens.
MrMarrok657 I’ve seen tests with that done and it’s a solid bullet it does great plus you can say that about any round like hollow point can lose thier integrity and ball penetrate to far but with this round you get penetration through bones and barriers without over penetrate or losing shape with hollow points
13:09 G9, the maker of an older, similar solid copper fluid transfer type of round, calls these EHPs, or External Hollow Points. Instead of the hollow being carved into the center of the meplat, the hollow is cut out of 4 external sections of the meplat and nose of the round. That breaks the hollow up into quarters, and puts those quarters on the outside of the bullet nose. It turns the hollow point inside out. And it also leaves a hard copper spine running up the center of the bullet, which is key to achieving reliably deep penetration. EHP is a great acronym for this entire class of ammo (similar to JHP), but G9 probably copyrighted it, and now their website is down.
Need me some of these
Me and my wife are both rocking lee high max exp. me in my glock 41 and her in glock 30s, I first found this ammo at Bear Arms Shooting Range, Brevard, NC and the firearms instructor praised the stuff even open up his edc and showed me his mag packed to the brim of them. 2 years later I have not found any thing that comes close to compare it with. Thanks for the video I'm going have to maybe load my back up mag with this stuff, just in case the first mag has the enemy runing for cover! Thanks for all the hard work!
The .45ACP just ventured into 10mmAuto territory with this round.
45 super does you can shoot a few 45 super out of most 45 acp. A usp 45 is rated for it though.
Website says this round is as effective as a 5.56. If true, that would be superior to a standard 10mm.
How so? 45 super is 600 ftpounds of energy, 10mm is the same or maybe 700ftp. 556 is 1700ftp? 45 acp is like 390 or 450 ftp?
I'm literally just saying what it says on the website. Also, performance is not soley based on muzzle energy. For the record though, .45 acp has 477-700 Joules of energy typically. 10mm has 600-1,000 Joules.
Those numbers are not accurate. maybe for +p but 700 is completely out of the range of any 45acp. 45 super could handle that probably.
I like to think of these rounds as already expanded 9 mm going way past +P+ speeds. With the added kicker that the bullet will force even more expansion in soft tissue and is essentially barrier blind. An also added benefit is in say my Glock 30S is a weight savings of over 2 1/2 ounces in carry weight using this ammo vs 230 grain ammo. Win win in my estimation.
As a j-frame carrier in the summer here in AZ I would like to see some .38 loads from underwood/lehigh tested. I love my Gold dots but it would be nice to have a selection for the snubbie.
I'm a firm believer in the Glaser Safety Slug silver tip by Corbon. I carry it in all my pistols, J-frame K-frame N-frame and .380 and .45acp. I'm a retired police officer and have seen with my own eyes the effect of one of these.
With higher velocities related to lighter projectiles in these Lehigh designs, the .38 special would be a lot more formidable I think. Might have to hand-load stuff to your own liking before this is made a reality?
Research Corbon's Glaser Safety Slug. I think they are what your are wanting. I have them in all my handguns.
That was a great test I I really like that Bravo! The shooting at the beginning of this video to when you did the watermelon in the 2L pops I wish I could shoot that well!!!
I'd love to see how the 9mm and 380 versions of this round perform in small carry guns that have become popular these days. I personally carry a sig p238 and am curious how the 65 gr bullet does in real world testing
I'm really glad you guys tested this ammo. The Lehigh ammo has peaked my interest ever since I discovered it last year. And since I wondered what the difference was supposed to be between the Extreme Penetrator and the Extreme Defender, now I know which one to stock up on: the Defender. Thanks for making it crystal clear for me!
now do it in a 45 hi point carbine
I've been carrying heavy weight RIP rounds in my 45 XD. Never really tested them. Had a break in and they were what I had loaded. They worked and didn't overpenetrate for my situation so I never changed them.
bullet weight and velocity provided put this in .357 magnum range.
It puts it in the watered down 357 magnum range. Full power .357 magnum would have much more energy than this. Full power .357 out of a 4" or so barrel should get a 125 grain bullet going ~1,600 feet per second.
Energy isn't everything here. The projectile doesn't deform, so everything it has is being directed at the footprint it makes upon impact, driving it through. Which means, less energy lost on barrier objects and higher velocities retained through those objects, to ensure good cavitation will result beyond in fluid-like targets. That's not something typically possible with most expanding nose lead-based projectiles, no matter the total weight-x-velocity energy numbers.
Eric, I have to say that I truly appreciate you and all that y’all do. 🇺🇸 son of a Nam Vet, raised on a farm in NC, grew up on guns and hunting, self employed builder. I really like your research. Thank you sir.
Btw. My edc is .45acp
I needed to know this
Great video guys! Love these ammo tests! Packin 9mm
Great test, loved the overall treatment , testing each step clearly and to the point. Thanks for the work you put in, it shows with the in-depth look and results to draw our own conclusions.
Would be nice to compare these grains with shorter barrel length pistols in .45acp calibers such as shorter barrel 1911, S&W Shield .45, etc etc
chgofirefighter kahr pm 45 or cw 45
that last watermelon was awesome!
It's too hard to tell if this ammo is a gimmick. handgun bullets only seem to damage what they physically hit in practical applications. ballistic gel is decieving
I'm pretty sure any bullet will only damage what it physically hits, bud. XD
I'm just messin with ya, I'm guessing you mean like as far as the temporary cavity and whatnot in gel goes, that damage isn't apparent in living creatures. This isn't exactly accurate, while you may not be able to see the damage caused by the hydrostatic shock with your eyes, it certainly has an effect. It's a similar principle to how an explosion kills you, in many cases it's not the secondary projectiles or burns that kills you, it's the pressure wave disrupting vital organs and causing them to shut down. Kindof like when you get hit really hard in the jaw and get knocked out, you're not getting knocked out from the actual impact on your jawbone, you're getting knocked out because the impact causes your head to move rapidly, which jars your brain and causes it to shut down, albeit for a very brief period.
It’s a gimmick. Just another attempt at a magic bullet. Really discredits a gun dealer that believes this stuff. If you need more power, you don’t change ammo, you change to magnum or 10mm calibers.
Whether or not the "scalloped FMJ" design of this ammunition is superior to traditional hollow-points in real world situations remains to be seen, since that data really isn't available, so synthetic mediums such as ballistic gel, synthetic bone, jugs of fluid etc are really all we have to go on. While those mediums might not exactly replicate human tissue, and the performance of the round may not be identical in living tissue and synthetic test mediums, you CAN draw direct comparisons between rounds in the same medium assuming the two tests are done in relatively controlled environments, and so far the evidence is promising.
Unless you have some substantial evidence showing that these rounds perform no better than FMJ, I don't think you can really claim they're a gimmick. I get that there are people who will always think any new development in projectile technology is just black magic and snake oil, but one has to pretty much disregard 99% of available evidence to come to that conclusion. That being said, some new rounds sound well on paper, but just don't work out in real life, like the G2 R.I.P rounds, but that doesn't mean ALL new rounds are that way.
Obviously shot placement is more important than the shape of the projectile when determining how capable a round is at incapacitating a living target, but the shape of the round DOES play a part, and not an insignificant one. Whether it's worth it to pay more for that increased performance is up to the individual.
Abaddon GC Gimmick: (1) Our technology is so now that “new and improved” is rarely improved or better (2) Lehigh and Underwood are not the first to try “extreme” ammo. Can’t remember the brand of ammo, but it was guaranteed to create a huge wound cavity and was a failure. (3) Veteran police officers use hollow points and tell citizens to use them since they’ve seen the results between fmj and hp
(1) I'm just not sure that is true, are you speaking in generalities or specifically on firearms/ammunition development? Everything from video games, computers, firearms, etc are all progressing at faster paces than ever before. It may seem, with all the improvements we hear about on a daily basis, that it all blends together and doesn't seem like any huge significant breakthroughs are occuring, but that doesn't mean that improvements and breakthroughs aren't happening. The fact that so many things are improved/upgraded so often that nothing seems "huge" anymore is actually a good thing, and just goes to show how quickly technology is being developed.
(2) Well the name really isn't the point here, it's just marketing. What I'm discussing is the efficacy of the projectile's design. All recorded tests so far have been pretty positive and have indicated that these rounds are effective, whether they are more effective than traditional bonded hollow-points remains to be seen, but only because there hasn't been enough time to make a definitive claim one way or the other. I also don't agree with the idea of "some other new brand of ammo in the past was bad, so that means any new brand of ammo in the future will be bad", in every field there are always ideas that flop, that doesn't mean people should just pack it up and call it quits on ever making any new improvements, it just means that one idea or those few ideas didn't pan out. I'm all for approaching new and shiny things with skepticism, but that can turn into cynicism very quickly which is not a good thing at all.
(3) All that says is hollow points are better than FMJ for incapacitating human targets, which is well known. That doesn't really speak to the efficacy of THIS design. The question here is, "Does the scalloped design of the Defender/Penetrator line of ammunition compare to, or surpass traditional bonded JHP ammunition?" and while the testing thus far has generally shown that yes, they definitely compare, and some even show that they could possibly be better than traditional JHP in certain circumstances, there really isn't enough data available to say one way or the other. That's why I'm saying you can't really claim they're a gimmick and have that claim hold any water.
I’m late to your party! However I’ve enjoyed your 45- 45acp videos.
wouldn't this be legal for use by the military since it doesn't deform when entering a body?
Kristobro98 everything would twchnically be legal in USA... the never signed that hollow point treaty.
Kristobro98 per the Hague convention it specifies ammo not designed or intended to cause imminent death, which the design of these rounds are designed to leave a larger temporary and permanent cavity than standard ball. In fact, one of their big sales points is the wound rivals hollow points. So in order to take it to NATO to be approved I don't think it would pass the trials.
guns and life of freedom that doesn't matter the US never signed the Hague treaty. And we never exactly used all NATO rounds anyway. We still have weapons in inventory in 30-06, .45ACP and .40SW
This video is fantastic!!! I was just on the phone talking to my guy that works there Justin. Guys, Underwood makes fantastic ammo. Buy the Underwood Extreme Defender for personal day to day defense. Use the Extreme Penetrator for Woods Defense and Hunting. I just ordered 10mm for my woods gun, G29 and I ordered the same for my bud that has the Colt .45 Long Judge. I'm switching over from Buffalo Bore to the Underwood Extreme Penetrator. Lastly the have reasonable shipping prices. Cheers.
I wish y'all would test DRT penetrating frangible
+lerch400block we are working on that video this week!
+Iraqveteran8888 awesome, looking forward to it.
+Iraqveteran8888 eric please need your help dd mk18 pistol or noveske 14.5 in rogue hunter
+Iraqveteran8888 I searched for your DRT test video and subscribed to the chanell after viewing. Great stuff.
Wow, what a very comprehensive video! Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for the time and effort, as well as the expense, of producing such a video. Well done!
So how is this different from carrying a 9mm? I'm a .45 guy myself, but this is a 9mm weigh bullet traveling at 9mm velocities.
First, some hair splitting: 120 grains at 1320-1350 fps and below 21000 psi are not typical 9mm numbers. You do not get 464-486 ft-lbs muzzle energy out of a 9mm unless it is a +p or +p+ round. You can consider the advantages of that yourself.
The really important thing: the Extreme Defender essentially is a SOLID. The 9mm or a conventional .45 ACP JHP bullet really must struggle to achieve good, consistent penetration and good effectivity (=energy transfer) at the same time, and barriers usually compromise the performance seriously. The Extreme Defender complies with stringent specifications much easier, with a relatively low sensitivity to barriers that could occur in everyday situations.
As a bonus, it is lead-free.
This technology definitely is the future, and if the market is able to tolerate the somewhat higher production cost of these bullets, other manufacturers will catch up with Lehigh soon, offering very similar designs.
In close range applications, where external ballistic properties are of no significance, heavier expansive bullets are no match to this technology.
George just repeated your query back to you in the strange form of a stupefying answer.
Zach Cushing I would think it's because it's a heavier bullet for that design, they have a 9mm version but it's only 90 gr. I'm not sure on velocity.
Well. There is the .451" hole vs. the .355" hole? Other than that, not much...
George, the round tested in this video is up toward the top of 45 +p performance. Pressure is close to 23,000 psi. Still way below 9mm pressures.
These 120 grain 45’s are going almost 300 FPS faster than a 124 grain hst in 9mm, from a 4” barrel, so I don’t understand how Zach thinks they are similar to 9mm performance. They are in 357 sig ballpark, with a much bigger hole.
Great ammo for defence .It can cause great damage to the perpetrator. Great video that brings good information on bullets that we don't know about
Someone should introduce an ammo line called *_Reduced Liability_*.
Ive been carrying this in 9mm for 3 years now. Yours and many others vids made me a believer.
Carrying what exactly in 9mm?
@@teller1290 ...the xtreme defender.
@@Keiferdeifer 90 gr or 115 gr?
@@teller1290 well the 9mm only comes in 68gr or 90. I usually run the 90gr +p+
redo it with ball ammo... same grain or the 230 grain... please
They have shot ball already in other videos.
I carry Glock 29 10mm when I’m camping mainly because it has the power to possibly stop a bear attack which is rare but happens , its a powerful pistol that is small and not to heavy so I can carry it all day easily, I did buy a 40 cal conversion barrel for 2 reasons first and foremost is over penetration as you mention in your videos, very important! When I carry in public I don’t want to throw 10mm thru the bad guy and into an innocent bystander or more, the 40 or 9 or even my 22 mag is bad enough !! In a real gun battle it’s hard to focus on anything Other than the immediate threat ! Your ballistic videos have helped me tremendously in solving the big question of too much and not enough! Oh yeah the other reason for the 40 conversion is expense for practice ! Thanks for the videos , Silas
You know, this video makes this ammo look really good, but I'm starting to wonder if this bullet design was driven by it's performance in GEL. You can rip that gel apary with your hands (something you really can't do with flesh,) because gel lacks the elasticity of flesh. Gel is a good tester for pre existing designs, because we can use it for comparison.. However it would be possible to design a bullet that exploits the differences between gel and flesh to represent amazing RUclips performance that might not translate to the street. I think these RUclips gel tests are REALLY selling ammo and it would only make sense for a manufacturer to try and exploit the qualifiers that impress us in gel tests...
James Heyward we need to use real world tests. We should gather up a bunch of child molesters and terrorists and have some real ammo tests
James Heyward Plus ballistic gelatin tests don't include fat and bones. Gel is not a legitimate way of testing bullets.
+All Things Magnum sure it is, it being a consistent medium means you can figure out which bullets have a tendency to penetrate more and expand less or vice versa due to the consistency, an inconsistent test medium with bones and fat would be unpredictable and goes against the scientific method
Gel isn't a comparison to flesh, it's a way of consistently testing 2 different projectiles in the same medium. You can't even compare the result from one gel test to a different gel test unless it's exactly the same composition and temperature.
Impressive round. Thank you for the video. Thorough exploration of the capabilities of the bullet.
I need windshield penetration for cold Pizza delivery. The guy always jumps in the car and does a burnout on my driveway.
😂😂😂
The fact that this .45ACP round does 1300 fps has got me sold. I love the 78 grain Civil Defense rounds too but these are probably more accurate. New fave
I was really interested until I saw it was 35.99 for 20 rounds
Ouch. Seems the price hits almost as hard as the round.
Not including shipping!!!!
It's not range ammo. If you have to shoot someone in self defense do you really care if it's$2 a round instead of $1?
Terry Waters id just use hollow points since these penetrate too good. Keywords: too good
No, it isn't range ammo, but you want to shoot a lot of whatever ammo you're going to carry through your gun, to make sure it performs reliably. You should also practice regularly with your carry ammo. The price of this stuff makes that unrealistic for many people. You're better off finding a lower cost but still reliable hollow point round, like Winchester "white box" 230gr. JHP, which is about the same price for 50 rounds.
Well done. That is something I would have not considered. This maybe a new definition of a go to round in every aspect. To be continued.....
2 much penetration = (backdrop damage) x 2 much liability...
Eric Al Whats the chance of overpenetrating vs missing your target alltogether.
Eric Al 16 inches is within the 12-18 inch metric created by the FBI. if it's not past 18 inches, then it's not really an over penetrator. And it only dented the back stop, it likely lacks significant force to penetrate a person past that.
***** Then you didnt follow the 4 rules of firearm safety, i wouldnt have taken the shot
***** And in the heat of the moment i might certainly miss my target alltogether. I never mentioned hollow points, I carry hollowpoints just like most conceal carriers but to me overpenetration is not worth worrying over.
Good point Dustin since 80% of all rounds fired in self defense scenarios completely miss the intended target it seems over penetration is the least of our worries.
I have always carried and trained with Federal Premium Hydrashok rounds and HST rounds, Speer Gold Dot rounds, and Hornady Critical Duty rounds. And then I discovered the Lehigh Defense/Underwood Xtreme Defender ammo. I also saw that it was the only ammo that got a perfect score in every caliber tested, barrel length and test medium with and without barriers fired into. Penetration in every caliber and in every barrel length and in every test medium with and without barrier penetration, and with every agency that tested it, had the ammo penetrate between 12” to 18”. There was no over penetration. Including in unfrozen pig carcass’s that were close to human dimensions. And the wound channel exceeded the size in width and depth of every fully expanded hollow point projectile in the same caliber. And in spite of the round being much lighter than typical rounds of the same caliber, because it is a solid copper projectile, the round has less recoil, shoots straighter and at longer distances, has a much higher velocity.
Because of that, I have now switched out all of the ammo in every handgun that I own, with this ammo. I’ll still train with the other ammo too, but this is the ammo that I will probably only use from here on out. Creating another type of ammo that can out perform this ammo will be very very tough to do!
120gr @ 1320 fps...so it basically turns a .45 into a 9mm +P.
+Jabari Hunt It sure sounds like it. Just a bigger hole. I'm sorry for saying this, but the Underwood Ammo in .357 Sig with the 125 gr. Gold Dots come in at 1520 fps out of my Glock 32.
It will probably penetrate more than these. I guess these would be pretty good at minimizing overpenetration...
A +p 9mm
You're damn right. U think its a good investment?
best best best way to put it,end of the conversation,thanks
Yes but its larger
Excellent video! I just happen to have a box of that same ammo sitting on my desk. Well needless to say I just switched out my golden sabre hollow point ammo for my Sig 220 and loaded up 3 mags. I carry my Sig 220 a lot as my concealed gun. As a retired LEO I like the 9mm, trained and carried a 9mm most of the time. However, since retired and living in PA I've been leaning to the 45 ACP. I just feel better with the bigger gun. Thanks again for a great video. I like your comment about 1 shot kill. Because you are always responsible for each and every round that leaves your firearm. So for you guys and gals out there with high capacity 9mm mags, God forbid you get into a situation where you let loose 10-12-15 rounds, trust me you will have a lot explaining to do.
okay so whats with this whole high velocity non expanding deep penetrating self defense ammo that i have been seeing, isn't the whole point of self defense ammo to NOT go through the bad guy?
+Xtorin “Xt” O'hern The point to blow his body in half
+ZzBiohazzardzZ um, the point is to stop the threat as fast as possible
Xtorin O'hern Which I'm pretty is what that would do.
no, no it wouldnt
Xtorin O'hern How?
I just purchased my second Glock 30 gen 4 and been using the Hornady critical defense FTX as my carry round but I think that I’M IN LOVE!! That’s a BAD 🍑 ROUND!! It’s a MUST HAVE!!
That ballistics gel looks like it would be great for sex! I think I'm gonna make me a sex doll out of it :)
nicerperson nice!
+nicerperson he's lucky if he gets 2" of penitration.
+Thystaff Thywill It also will not talk back to him or bitch at him when he is fucking it,lol.
+Metalman200xdamnit 😂
...it just might
New favorite quote from Iraqveteran8888 "An organism is a system of organs"
First view. Nice
ayy
Great video. I use Underwood +P Extreme Penetrator in my .380 Kimber Micro, and now will consider Underwood Extreme Defender for my CCW 3" 1911. Thanks
another paid advertisement from eric. next up.... oxyclean
Hater
+gonzalez519 Better than being a sellout. Go back and watch his old videos. That was some great stuff
+Jesse King i understand that it may look like he is doing underwood a favor by promoting this new ammo on his channel but if he and all the youtubers dont show us the new products that are out there who do you think will?
I think he is merely pointing out the potential of this new ammo thats all.
No beef.
Except it isn't a paid advertisement; were it one it would be clearly labelled in the video and description. He's showcasing the ammunition, which is something he has done many times before.
the revern 1. Then use self discipline and avoid curiosity about innovation. Not his fault you indulged, I did too, and I learned a lot. Did you too? 2. Pretty interesting video, again. He simply enjoys this stuff. If it was pure shit, it wouldn't be of interest, I do think even shoot this stuff. My 9mm, hollow point cornbon dpx +p+, 115 grain, scoots along at the same speed, and is just as good at barrier penetration and performance afterwards as this 45 round. Interesting to note. Sorry, what's your bitch? I lost myself. You whining why? Just don't watch, you already know everything.
Hands down best videos on guns these guys.
👏👏👏👏
I was introduced to this ammo today at the range.....I had never heard of it but wow!....very impressive!!!!!
Once upon a time the hollow point was the crazy new tech that now everyone believes in. Lehigh bullets are following that same path. No gimmicks. It is a serious evolution in ammo. Great video.
Lehigh is Awsome! They made proprietary.17 cal bullets for us when we were kicking everyone in unlimited rimfire competition at the NWGC..
147 federal HST in my Glock 17 I have 2 mags of 147 grain and 3 mags of 124 grain. I think the expansion and wound cavity are top notch and the bullet never fails to expand. That and over or under penetration are never a problem with the bullet
Very well articulated demonstration
.45 ACP & .45 LC are my personal favorites!
Thanks for the consistent, clear and complete information you give in each video.
The Underwood ammo seems to be priced at bit better (interestingly enough, as Lehigh makes the projectile) and to perform a little better, as well. I'll continue to buy the Underwood for my .380 (makes this a VERY effective weapon, even for my little Kel Tec pocket pistol (which I really like and always goes bang) and I think I've found a new .45 carry and carbine ammo, as well. Good stuff, especially if you have the X-D and X-P rounds on you in different mags (like for my carbine) for different operations/needs. Combat changes so fast from exterior barrier to interior barrier, etc. Even in civilian situations like home/property intrusion and invasion.
I trust your evaluations over many others.
Thanks again.
Very well explained, I'll have to start referring to you as Dr. Ballistics.. you really broke it down lol... a group of organs make an organism, blood loss, making the machine fail etc etc.. Awesome details, Awesome Video... your investment in making this video was well worth the investment 👌
Thank You
Outstanding vid.. your attention to detail and data is far above standard👍
I'm convinced. Thanks! A 45 ACP with a Bullet Weight (gr) : 120, Muzzle Energy (ft. lbs) :@: 1,320 fps must produce a lot of hydrostatic shock.
loved the test , you guys go all out ; keep up the awesome work ! I am a firm believer that "speed kills"
I carry 230 grain Winchester PDX1's and absolutely love them. These look sweet though. I may order some to stock at my shop and take a box for myself.
I went with Hornady XTP's in my own 9mm handloads for carry because the guy over the counter had recently done a hunting outing with the XTP's and dropped a buck right where it stood.
Great video Eric. Thanks for all you guys are doing for the 2A community.