The unrecorded Rubik's record
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- Опубликовано: 3 июл 2024
- Karen Chu, Lizzy Skrzypiec and Bob Hagh face a question about fantastically fast fingers.
LATERAL is a weekly podcast about interesting questions and even more interesting answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit www.lateralcast.com
GUESTS:
Karen Chu: @goodjobbrain, / momopeche
Lizzy Skrzypiec: / lizzyskrzypiec
Bob Hagh: @BuzzerBob, / buzzerbobtv
HOST: Tom Scott.
QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe.
RECORDED AT: The Podcast Studios, Dublin.
EDITED BY: Julie Hassett.
GRAPHICS: Chris Hanel at Support Class. Assistant: Dillon Pentz.
MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com).
FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd.
EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott.
© Pad 26 Limited (www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2024. 
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I mean, Tom would know about technical difficulties...
Never a truer word spoken.............LOBBO!!!!
thank you for the seasonal reminder to rewatch literally all TD content I can still access.
I see what you did there.😅
In fact, I would say he's _the_ person to talk to about _technical difficulties._
And let's go for Goose...
"The points aren't made up, they're just non-existent"
Mystery Biscuits!
The masses yearn for the biscuits.
@@Ostermond The Biscuits are not a lie
5:37 I've said it before, but man I really appreciate whoever is doing the closed captions for these videos, that was all fancy!
4:26 Love how he contracts "Shits and giggles" to "Shiggles"
Yeah, it's quite popular way to say it now :)
OH so that's what it means
It almost sounds more profane that way! :D
🛡️SPOILER GUARD🛡️
Thank You
Don't think I like this one. The record WAS recognized....hence the question, right? (Albeit for a short time, still recorded)
@@macgyveriii2818 no, keaton's was never officially recognized as the record
🫡
hell yea
yep
salt in the wound :(
Keaton! As soon as I saw your name in the question my heart broke all over again. I hope you're doing well. We met at a few different competitions around 2013-2014 though you may not remember me cause I used to go by a different name 😂
it's the legend himself
Oh my god how is this not top comment
I love that they call football stadiums an auditorium but multiple people know intricate details about Rubiks Cube tournaments
this is why I still enjoy the internet in 2024.
I can still find my people.
I guessed it immediately correct. This is basically the same rule as they have in speed skating: if you skate a world record, but someone else skates faster in a later heat at the same event, your time won't be recognized as a world record (after all, you wouldn't have gotten the record if you skated later). It has happened a world record has been broken twice on the same day, but that happened during different events (and different rinks).
There was a similar question either here or on QI where someone broke the long jump record at the Olympics but only won a bronze medal......because they broke it as part of the decathlon, and as such only won that one event in the 10 event discipline.
Yeah, this one's a classic in the brainteaser catalogue.
Good thing I'm not on Lateral, as soon as I heard the question I was thinking that I would've said 'Did someone just solve it faster right after him?' as a joke! That would've been the shortest question ever I bet...
There are definitely questions where that happens, they just never make the highlights
i got it immediately. i was an active cuber when it happened. the wording 'time was never officially recognized' did throw me off a bit because its innacurate. the world record was never officially recognized but it was a fair solve that was recorded and became his personal record. in fact, it's -still his personal record today- just 0.01 seconds off his personal record today. keaton never did get his world record unfortunately :(
Slight correction, Keaton got a 5.08 sometime later, which I believe is his actual personal record.
@@AceZephyr1 woah you're right. i guess the times were so similar my brain just merged the two and forgot about the 5.08.
I was hoping that the rubiks cube slipped from his hands, hit a few objects got reoriented and automatically solved itself
I was thinking the kid had one arm and his prosthesis fell off.
4:50
What’s funny is this is actually something cubers do every year during daylight savings, they call it the negative time solving challenge. You start before the clocks turn back and end after, leaving you with a “negative” solve time.
My favorite example of this is Matthew “Mack” Robinson, who utterly obliterated the existing world record for the 200 M track & field event at the 1936 Berlin Olympics (held in front of Hitler himself, no doubt), but he came in 2nd, to Jesse Owens. Not only that, but Mack had a little brother who would also make a name for himself, Jackie Robinson. Jackie became the “man who broke the color barrier” in Major League Baseball; Mack became a janitor for a local high-school.
Picking up on Tom's "why are Guinness the arbiters of it" - the Guinness of Guinness World Records and the Guinness of Diageo Drinks are not technically the same company any more. One is basically now a publishing group which is owned by, I think, the same clowns behind Ripleys, which split off from the Guinness PLC in 2001. The reason it had anything to do with Guinness at all is because the original Guinness Book of Records was commissioned by the Guinness board back in 1954 following an argument at a shooting party over which was the fastest game bird.
This same thing has happened a few times, but instead of 2 different people getting the record, it was Max park beating the World Record TWICE in the same average! So only the best time counted as the official WR. (6x6 cube btw)
Woa
And Stanley Chapel did it with all three solves in 5x5 blindfolded in 2019. WR single was 2:38.77 and he got: 2:32.48 2:28.80 and 2:21.62
Famous event in the speedcubing world!
Got it immediately.
Oh wow I vividly remember this happening. Everyone in the cubing world was super excited and happy for Keaton, only to share another video a few hours later. Keaton is literally walking right behind the guy who breaks his record lmao.
My guess was a misscramble. Everyone is supposed to get the exact same cube scrambles at the same time. Sometimes, one of the scramblers makes a mistake and you have the wrong one. If that happens, that solve doesn't count.
This was almost my guess. I'm not sure how they work (is every cube a unique scramble or is it every cube has the same scramble so it's an apples to apples comparison?) but my guess was that it was a unique scramble that turned out to basically be a very short number of moves from a solve.
@@DasGanon Every competitor in a group gets the same 5 scrambles funnily enough the offical rules for a 3x3 scramble only states that the scramble must be random and take at least 2 moves to solve.
Happened to a guy called Tymon. Lost the European record due to a mis-scramble. Was granted another attempt, which was a fraction of a second slower.
Yeah and Yiheng too, and the misscramble only changed one move on the solve
These captions are amazing! I know Tom did a video about captions, so it should be no surprise. The color-coded text to indicate who's talking I expected. The superscripts over 09 to indicate the two ways she said it is a level after next level!
I do love it when it's just the simplest thing possible.
So proud to have as many world records as Keaton Ellis
4:57 THANK YOU LIZZY for challeging Tom's weird "yes and" obsession. *If the guess is wrong, it's wrong dammit!!*
"That's not how time works". Wow. Roasted.😆
This happens at the Olympics sometimes, and it's a totally you-get-a-hug moment
@LaterwithTomScott
I also appreciate that you have to eat the big foods because that mean you have to actually cook it with real food. You can't use any tricks which would make it inedible.
This is my first time hearing Lizzy Skrzypiec and I would like her voice to be all general voices, now.
Like if I'm talking to someone, I hear their voice, listen to a song, it's the person singing, but everything else, I would be happy to hear her voice, i think.
Just glorious.
Haven't finished the video yet, and maybe someone says this, but wasn't the Guinness Records created to solve pub debates?
Ya I think so, and that's why a beer company started doing records
@@Conor1_23 Indeed - I made a comment on it upthread. Basically the blokes in charge of Guinness went shooting, got into an argument about the fastest game bird, tried to look it up and couldn't find an answer, and decided that they should create a book to answer that and many other questions about highest, fastest, strongest, biggest etc. They leant their name to the resultant Guinness Book of Records, and the subsequent Guinness Publishing company, which lasted until 2001 when it was sold by the brewing company off. It's now in the hands of the clowns behind Ripleys, hence why it's become a parody of itself and has little if nothing to do with Diageo who now own the drink.
The real question here is: is this more or less stupid than the fact the Michelin that makes tires and the Michelin that awards restaurants are the same company?
@@EinDose Hey, I give them both credit for coming up with some clever cross-promotion schemes.
@@EinDose The Michelin thing makes sense in the same way that the AA (Automobile Association, car insurance and rescue company) rates hotels and restaurants in the UK - there is a link between driving to and eating/staying at a location.
It's amazing how close Bob's guesses are to the real situation. You do need a judge there to verify the time, and they write it on a score card and both the competitor and the judge need to sign for the time for it to count. Regarding the technical difficulties, it doesn't apply to Keaton, but that very same day, a couple states over, Collin Burns set a time of 5.15 which was also quicker than world record at the time (which he already held). But that time didn't count because he'd received the incorrect scramble. It was an absolute crazy day because two records prior to 2015 each stood for around two years, yet the record was broken 2 or 3 times in a single day (depending on whether you count Collin's).
And yes, there are thousands of people solving at competitions all over the world every weekend, and it's really hard tracking the exact moment a solve takes place with time zones, etc. If a record is broken multiple times on the same calendar date, only the best result is recognized as breaking that record.
And here I assumed it was "Oh, that one was just too easy by mistake, doesn't count because it doesn't require at least (say) 30 twists for the final solve".
4:47
It’s actually thing people like to do during DST where cubers will do a solve while the clocks change to get a “negative time”. It’s not official or anything just a fun thing people like to do.
I heard "Did something happen that day to make this official time different?" And I thought "Oh god, was it Daylight Savings' Time? Did this guy either solve this cube in 1'00'05'09 or have it written in the books as 59'54'91?"
man I wish full episodes were on youtube.
Yes, Tom, there is an unofficial "negative solving time" record. You start solving just before 3 AM at daylight savings time changeover, and finish just after 2 AM. Many people have times faster than -59:50.00. The difficulty is staying up late, and you can only attempt this once per year, and only in certain countries or states.
I did this on clock!
@@Chrnan6710 Great idea. Most people do this on 3x3, and I think a couple of people did it on 3BLD. You may actually be the world record holder!
If you live near a time zone boundary in North America you can try it twice a year, since the time doesn't change in lockstep in each timezone. You might be able to get in more attempts by flying to countries that change on different days.
The real flex would be to go to a country that is about to switch its time zone to the other side of the international date line, like Samoa in 2011.
Now that sandwich story could have been a question by itself!!!
Thought it would be a miss-scramble. I'd heard of stuff like this happening but didn't know this particular example.
This one laid an egg.
This was one of those "I'm shouting the answer at the screen but none of them are listening to me" questions. >_
5:31 this is a great take actually! the judge has to sign the timesheet after he wrote down the time of thr competitor. they often forget and the time then does not count!
the competitor signs after the judge, so its them in the end confirming everything is ok (everybody signed and the time was written easily readable)
Have they had a similar question (possibly in sport) before? I feel like the actual answer is also the first logical guess to “record performance didn’t become a record.”
There was a similar event recently where the guy solved the cube so fast that one of the pieces got twisted and so it wasn’t correctly solved. It was unsolvable from that state and he did all the moves correctly, but because one of the pieces got twisted, it wasn’t recognized as an official solve.
If it got twisted on accident, he is allowed to untwist it, but maybe he just didn’t realize before he stopped the timer.
@@mrbob5459Happened to Zemdegs once. Didn't untwist before stopping the timer. DNF. Cost him a record.
yes, Feliks Zemdegs 5.33, corner twists are partly down to bad cube design and the risk of them has been greatly reduced on modern speedcubes but also partly due to cubers just turning badly. Feliks Zemdegs was using a MoYu AoLong V1 back then which did have a significant corner twisting issue from what I hear (unfortunately I never managed to get one), shortly after the incident MoYu released the AoLong V2 which supposedly fixed the corner twisting issue but Feliks Zemdegs didn't like it and actually continued using the AoLong V1 but just kept it on slightly tighter tensions.
@@speedcubingdotorg ^^^ THIS GUY CUBES!!!
@@mrbob5459 sure, but when your times are under 6 seconds, twisting it back will basically double your time.
this was 9 years ago, now, the world record holder is max park, with a 3.13 record. yiheng wang, a litteral 9 year old, previously held the record with a 3.47
He took all the stickers off and on, and did it in 5 seconds
I was guessing (incorrectly) that, after completing the unscramble, the cube was judged to have been insufficiently randomized prior to starting the clock.
YAY MORE CUBING ON LATERAL
this same thing happened to be before but for the singaporean national record for the rubiks clock average lol
Ooh, I thought it was that the cube was scrambled but happened to end up in a nearly-solved arrangement. IIRC, there's a rule that if the position is solvable in less than x moves, then that solve doesn't count.
This happened again a year later with Max Valk setting a 4.74, and then while sitting next to Feliks Zemdegs later that day, Feliks got a 4.73. Only the fastest result of each day is officially recognized, so Max's 4.74 was never counted as a world record, but could still be a continental or national record.
I assume you mean Mats Valk and not, say, Max Park, and no, this is not true. Mats' 4.74 was an official record for just over a month (performed on either Nov 5 or 6, 2016, not sure which) at Jawa Timur Open 2016. Feliks' 4.73 was at POPS Open 2016, on December 11, 2016.
Yes, Mats was also at POPS Open 2016 and may very well have been sitting next to Feliks when his record was beaten, but he definitely had that record for some time.
Initial thoughts: It can't be a case similar to a previous question where the contestant quickly nodded to drop his blindfold over his eyes, and somehow got disqualified?
Maybe there was an error with the printing/manufacturing of the cube and there was two sides with the same colour? Or some sides/parts of the cube were already solved right from the (pseudo) random manufacturing/reshuffling?
Was it because he was "hand-challenged" and thus used some form of disqualifying assistance or simplification of the task?
Ah, I was so sure they'd have been doing a set of multiple solves for the competition and that a subsequent solve by the same person would be even better and thus be submitted as the actual record. At least I was close to the actual answer.
There is a video out there where a speed cuber completed a cube but on the last turn a corner spun and that nullified his time.
rip keaton
wr holder in our hearts
I wonder what the world record is for the shortest time that someone has beaten a world record after the previous record was set
I was wondering if maybe there was a leap second or something, lol.
And here I thought the cube just *broke* when he dropped it to get his hands back on the mat quicker.
I thought i hsve seen a video where someone solves a cube, slams the cube on the table, so we see when the clock should stop, but raises their hands in victory so the clock keeps going.
I actually knew this story 😁 That's rare in this channel 🤭
I thought it might be that the cube was accidentally not mixed enough. I mean, I'm pretty sure I can beat the record if it only takes one move to solve. Maybe two if I get some practice.
Thanks
This whole time, just from how tom pronounce Lizzy's last name, i didn't know that's how it is spelled
I mean, I would be sad as hell lol
I was there for that record lol
Hmmm… Wouldn’t that be “3x3x3” Rubik’s cube? OK, never mind…
In the cubing world they call it 2x2, 3x3, 4x4, etc
I feel like "cube" assumes all sides are identical and you don't even need two numbers, one is enough! 😆
@@MelodyWarp, yeah, that’s what I was thinking too…
@@MelodyWarp no there's definitely asymmetrical puzzles, and even with geometric cubes needing all sides the same size, they might still use the word cube, but only if it's still 8 sides with right angles.
@@JouvaMoufette You sure about the 8 sides? 😉
I manged to solve a Rubik cube without rotating any of the sides.
It broke and I put it back together in the correct orientation.
5:28 that almost happened to me
RIP Keaton.
Keaton is still a WR holder to me!
I've been clearing out old junk and found a rubix cube, thought I'd try it again now I'm a bit older and a bit smarter, I managed to get 2 faces but then the other 4 keep ruining what I've got. Mr Rubix really did create a crazy puzzle.
You were solving it face by face instead of layer by layer?
@@papermonkeyminer8116 all I remember is some tutorial from years ago, possibly one that came with the cube, that said to create a green plus, then get the whole green side, then create the plus of the reverse side, then fill that side.
My guess: He did it blindfolded, however blindfolded cubing is its own category thus not valid for the regular (unblindfolded) category which was what was taking place at the time.
Edit: Ouch.
Recording my guess after Tom says you start blindfolded: was the cube scrambled randomly, and the starting configuration was later judged to be "too easy" to solve?
so Keaton Ellis DID hold the world record .. but for only an hour or so 🤔🤔🤔
BRO WHEN YOU BECOMING TOM SCOTT AGAIN 💀💀💀💀
Shouldn't the 1000 points go to Karen? Technical difficulties?
instant guess: someone else beat it IMMEDIATELY afterwards
\o/
thought this whas the one where it whas technically world record, but the person didnt have to do enough moves, making it not count
5:31 scramble?
Wrong scramble
The 1000 points were never received by Tom because someone else earned them before they could be officially delivered.
Is it possible that
When he solved it, when it hit the table it unsolved?
it is possible but it is very unlikely with a 3x3 that that could happen and not just be a +2 second penalty because the cube is 1 move off.
That question seems poorly-written to me. His time _was_ recorded, it just didn't net him an official title. Maybe there's some meaning to the word "recognized" that's confusing here? But even so, his _time_ was recognized, what wasn't "recognized" was that it was a world record-setting time.
I feel like the wording is a little misleading. To me, "his time was never officially recognized" means it was never recorded in the official competition results. So the answer felt unsatisfying.
A simple word change could help, such as "his record wss never officially recognized" or "his time was never officially recognized by Guiness (or whoever)."
Keaton finally gets some more recognition!!
spoiler
Cubers actually have a term that was invented because of this event; if a competitor is "keatoned", that competitor set a new record (usually a WR) and then lost it to someone else within the same day, causing it to not be counted as a record. While Keaton didn't officially get the record, at least his name still lives on as part of Rubik's cube history.
happened again in 2021 with Max Park's 3x3 average 2 WR in the same comp
I obviously knew the answer to this right away but I feel that this can't be that unusual, surely other sports and hobbies have the same issue? Maybe you can all talk about Matty Hiroto Inaba's 3.08 at US nationals last year next? Or one of the many miscrambles world records? I feel there are many more interesting things for this show in cubing that are unique to cubing.
The term being 'Keatoned' still exists today in cubing to describe this exact occurence, whether it be for a world record or a more local record.
My guess was, that the Rubik's cube was accidentally already solved, when he picked it up. Or it was just two moves away from being solved, by pure chance. So it took him 5 seconds to notice and push the buttons. But since it was so easy, he never got the Guinness record.
That can't happen as at official speed cube events, you pick up the cube look at it for 10-15 seconds then put the cube backdown then you start your run.
well technically the regulations only require the scramble to be two moves from being solved for 3x3x3, however, this is only because the chances of the scramble program actually generating such a scramble are so ridiculously small that it isn't even worth considering.
Amateurs. My record beats them all: coming up on 40 years soon.
I don't think it was a record time, but there's a video here on RUclips of a kid getting the tournament time, but one of the cube sides twisted as the cube hit the mat before his hands did and it disqualified his time.
Tom has a habit of Tomsplaining answers once someone else has given it.
Exactly. I came here to comment about that. Those 1000 points should have been awarded to Karen it seems...
Before watching, I have two ideas:
1- It took him 1 hour, 0 minutes and 5.090 seconds, but the clock they use only has seconds and milliseconds. He's just like me.
2- The cube was already done from start except for one flip. It took him 5 seconds to make that single flip. He's like me for real no cap.
4:21 this actually did happen about a year ago. matty hiroto inaba got a 3.08 at us nationals but it didnt count because it was in a practice comp simulation and not the actual round
Tom, you can’t try to enforce the rules of improv on your podcast and then complain when it turns into Whose Line is it Anyway.
I thought the randomizer for the cube randomly created an already solved cube, so there was nothing to solve and he just put the blindfolds off, put the hands off the thing, realized in 3-4 seconds that there is nothing to solve and put the hands back on the thing.
2:43 Because back in the day people would get into drunken arguments at the bar over obscure records, so Guiness took advantage with a marketing ploy to publish a book of world records and put them in bars. The books were popular in bars to settle the drunken arguments and were plastered with the Guiness brand, encouraging people to celebrate winning the argument by ordering a Guiness. The book became super popular, and they kept updating it to include new records. And then people started trying to do records to get themselves into the book.
Now, it's a pretty shady business practice where "winning" the record really means paying an exorbitant fee to Guiness in order to fly out one of their "officials". It's even something used by fascist governments to build press and legitimize their "country", by paying to have a new world record recorded there. And, of course, few of these records mean anything, they're just the most obscure thing someone can find that doesn't already have a record.
5:16,
You actually do need to sign the scorecard, and your time could get removed if you forget.
It was wind-assisted.
The world record at the moment is a staggering 3.13 seconds set by a 21yo Korean American Max Park in 2023.
Didn't the same thing happen fairly recently when Max Park got one of the low 4 wr's?
EDIT: Actually, I think he beat himself that time.
Depending on how the cubes are scrambled, someone is eventually going to be handed a 3x3 cube that happens to be scrambled into the solved configuration. Or...the heat death of the universe.
Can't happen, there's a bunch of different tournament rules, but they all have some sort of minimum move rule.
The most famous organiser(WCA, the World Cube Association) has the cube orientations generated by computer which actually double checks to ensure that all the cubes are at least a set minimum moves off solved(7 for the standard 3×3×3 cube) as well as ensuring that no side starts presorted(so all sides must contain at least 2 colours).
Isn’t there a rule where the cube needs to be a minimum amount of moves away from its solved state.
@@scragar Ah that makes sense, thank you.
So the heat death of the universe will always come first
There are actually some scramble guidelines to prevent such an issue! In a cubing competition, every competitor is given the same set of scrambles that were generated prior; each generated scramble is around 20 moves long - but the scramble is regenerated if it ends up in a state that can be solved in less than 3 moves. These ridiculously lucky scrambles though are easier to come across in other twisty puzzles or lower order cubes (the 2x2 record of 0.43 was solved in 4 moves!)
But he got officially recognised…
Not for long
Nope. According to the World Cube Association regulations section 9i2, if the record is broken multiple times in the same day, only the best one is considered the record.
The key to why it was not recognized is that both times were recorded _in the same round._ It's equivalent to a foot race in which both the first and second place runners beat the previous record.
I don't know if both solves were on the same scramble. I'm sure the answer is somewhere on the official web site.
The times weren't from the same round, but they were from the same DAY, which is what matters for WCA records
well yes, other sports have had it even worse, Noah Ngeny broke the old mile world record in 1998 but it didn't count because Hitcham El-Guerrouj was just ahead of him in the same race. He is still 2nd all time to this day.
I love this podcast, but please, Tom Scott, stop explaining the thing and let the person that found the answer finish their explanation. Lizzy precisely said "Follow that thought Karen", we don't need Tom to intervene. It's not the first time, and I think it is ruining a bit the show for the other participants. Already happened in other episodes lately, where you cut other people from giving an explanation.
5:31 this is a great take actually! the judge has to sign the timesheet after he wrote down the time of thr competitor. they often forget and the time then does not count!
the competitor signs after the judge, so its them in the end confirming everything is ok (everybody signed and the time was written easily readable)