The scoring on the 3.4 is nothing to do with oiling in the sense you highlighted. It's to do with the plastic piston coating breaking down and then the exposed piston skirt damaging the bore. The piston coating breaks done partly because it's not up to the job but also because the lokasil bore material isn't stable and spits out small pieces that get trapped between the bore and the piston skirt, which compromises the coating on the skirt, which in turn breaks down and then you have the wrong skirt material facing the bore and you get scoring.
@@billycontinental1849 Yes. Completely new engine known as the MA1 or 9A1. It's a pretty solid engine with a far, far lower failure rate than the larger 3.4L+ M97 lumps. Not absolutely perfect, but what engine is? The 2.7L M97 is pretty reliable, though.
@@flatsix1943 Think the issue with the 9A1 / MA1 is quite different both in terms of scale and character. First, it's a tiny number of engines versus the larger M97 lumps. Second, think it's caused by the piston partially seizing in the bore when a user leans on the engine too hard from cold and the piston heats up and expands faster than the bore. Significant user error factor. With the M97, engines that are treated perfectly can and do fail from scoring. So, it's not a case of the same problem but less common, but a completely different issue.
Keep reviewing affordable sports cars, everything interesting today starts at over $50K which most people can't drop on a second car, let alone one car, so it's great to hear professional perspectives on great cars that people can actually get into!
I bought my first ever Porsche last year and it happened to be a Guards Red 2006 Cayman S with 48,000 miles that I got a decent deal on. My perspective is a bit different as I daily drove a 2000 Honda s2000 for 22 years before I had to sell it and a 2009 Nissan GTR for 12 years now. Out of those 3 cars I enjoy driving the Cayman S the most even though my GTR now has around 630hp at the crank. The reasons for this are pretty simple.... it is light, accurate and you feel absolutely everything you need through the wheel at all times while having _just enough_ power. It also gets just as many looks as the GTR does but from a very different crowd. When I first got into it for a test drive at the dealer I was actually slightly underwhelmed... almost like what you heard in this review. It is important to know that this car grows on you swiftly after you learn how to drive it and what it requires from you to get the most out of the experience. It was totally unmodified except for a nameless cat-back that I simply could not identify. I now have Soul Performance Exhaust, Numeric shifter cables, Wavetrac LSD, Girodisc 2 piece rotors, IPD Plenum, DSC Sports Controller (think SUPER PASM), LN Engineering Ultimate AOS, new Fuel Injectors, spark plugs, coils and water pump. I also switched over to Driven DI40 Motor Oil. The injectors, oil, water pump and AOS are all designed to keep me from having to do a 20k+ engine rebuild far sooner than I should. I needed a proper controlled baseline as this car had 3 prior owners all over the country in various cold climates. It is absolutely critical you pay attention to these items if you really are serious about owning this car. In particular, leaking old or faulty injectors will wash away the oil in your cylinders which is a leading cause of bore scoring. Always let it warm up by driving it under 3k rpm and never let it idle to warm. Drive it every day if you can as most of the typical bore scoring issues seem to be with cars that are garage queens. Also, don't do what I did and skip the PPI. I was too eager and just pulled the trigger after my test drive. I had a bore scope done after I bought it and before I started doing my mods. I just got lucky as the engine was perfect upon inspection. I also drove a 2016 Cayman GT4 and a 2021 718 GT4 back to back a few weeks ago. Even though I'm lucky enough to be able to afford either car, I CHOSE to stick with my 987. I feel connected to it when driving it in a way the more modern Caymans simply lacked. This is highly subjective but I have never been more certain of anything in my life after driving all 3 so close together. I prefer the 987.1 Cayman S to the s2000, GTR and both GT4s. Just drive one if you ever get the chance. I let my friends drive all my cars so they can understand why I am the way I am.
Future 987 owner, with plans to hot rod it if the engine ever needs rebuilt. Thank you for your comment and solidifying my future build “dream”. Fun fact: every performance and body part from a 997 gt3 (from the door forward) will bolt up to a 987!
@@86Digilio That's right, I forgot I also have a GT3 Master Brake Cylinder on the way with stainless steel brake lines. It's just a great platform if you do your research first.
@@iluvcakes19 Like they say in the video, the 987.2 is harder to find and more expensive. Getting the spec you want at the price you want is a crap shoot. Yes, I would have gotten a .2 if both were on the lot that day. I figured get the spec I loved PASM and Sport Mode right in front of me and use the savings to modify it the way I want.
@@Syncopia and Don't forget to wear a mask that doesn't work to protect you from a cold you've already had, and get an untested vaccination while you're at it OR ELSE.
great review BUT IMHO, driving a Porsche on back roads consisting of 1-mile blocks really doesn't even get into its more significant handling advantages... you might as well be driving a US muscle car.
I have the Poverty pack base Cayman. I am sure glad I do, no bore scoring and the IMS bearing is not an issue. Why these experts never point that out is just funny.
So many errors in this video. There is no oil temperature gauge, the engine on the base 987.2 is 2.9 liters (not 2.7), the gen 1 transmission was not "steptronic" as you called it, it was TipTronic which was made by Mercedes Benz and was bullet-proof, the bore scoring is not from "20,000 mile oil changes" as you claim but from owners, especially in cold weather climates, over revving or idling to warm up and the cylinder liners and engine block expanding at a different rate when going from cold to hot, temperature changes. And Mark's obvious hatred for the Porsche brand is nauseating and out of place on an automotive review channel. You two pride yourselves on mechanical knowledge beyond the typical RUclips channel, but with all the mistakes you put out here, it makes me wonder how many inaccuracies your other videos have?
I agree with your statement and assessment…I appreciate someone that knows their cars….i liked some of their videos that I managed to watch but even in those few videos I watched kinda got like a snobby/jerky/ahole attitude from the….ummm from the 🧑🦲 guy….
While yes, you are correct they review many cars and quite frankly i think your comment was unwarranted. The point of this channel is to give viewers (that search for it) a deeper insight into these vehicles. With that being said they are by no means an expert at every single car they review. On top of that they were simple and really nonsensical things you called them out on. Anyone looking to buy this car isn’t going to be turned away it because of a videos inaccuracies. Get a grip man if you wanna call out people for simple mistakes go to the Porsche forums, if not enjoy the in depth review.
Ok, Ferdinand! Let’s chill. This is a channel which reviews many, many cars. It is not an expert Porsche channel. Let’s give these guys a break. Ok, Piech?
@@gordondemuynck6579 Same here. I had a 2008 (ordered new, my first Porsche) base model. What I found was many 356 folks also owned Caymans as opposed to 911s. Until a few years ago, it seemed like a well-kept secret.
You can easily see that Mark is not impressed with the older Cayman. Maybe that's because he's used to more modern hyper-fast cars. I just got a 987.1 2.7L "base" Cayman and it's a blast to drive. No, it's not as fast as the "S" model, but it'll still get you into trouble really quick and I'd rather have a smaller engine that I can wring out without getting a speeding ticket. The 2.7 begs you to wring the piss out of it. BTW, the '06-'08 2.7 engines do not suffer from IMS or bore-scoring issues like the 3.4s.
This is soooo timely. I'm actually looking at 987 Boxsters and Z4M's because I can't justify dropping $40-50K on something that will be a weekend driver.
When I was looking at 987 Boxsters I also looked at the Z3 (closest competitor at the time). The Boxster was hands-down better on all counts. Especially storage and drivability. The cowl shake on the Z3 was terrible.
The Z4M is WAY more fun. It's not even comparable. It's as raw as M cars come and the engine can have one of the best induction noises germany has to offer if you get a carbon plenum. I highly recommend to test drive both at 8/10ths before you make a decision.
@@taylorc2542 I was hoping to find an affordable one too. Turns out finding them at all was a bigger challenge than I thought especially the 09 or 10. Right in the heart of the recession made those pretty uncommon cars.
Tires change the steering feel a lot. Contis like the ones on the test car tend to be a bit soft and less responsive. Put a set of Michelins on it and upgrade the stock dampers and the car will be a lot more connected. It's also one of those cars that doesn't really come to life until you push it hard, which you can't really do on most roads.
Love the sound of that engine after the 2-3 upshift. I can't believe how acclimated I've become to seeing things like the BMW beaver teeth and Lexus PredatorFace -- that Cayman front end looks like an old 356 or something to modern eyes.
Almost 2 years into my 987.1S Boxster ownership and I absolutely love it. It’s been extremely reliable and a joy to drive. Hard pressed to find something more fun in a similar price range.
'It's not a drivers car'. A light rear wheel drive, two seater coupe with a screaming mid six cilinder engine isn't a drivers car.... Calling the Lotus Elise a competitor at the time and then calling it more of a GT.... Right....
It would be awesome if they did two back to back, one that is stock, and one that has had the SPL catalog thrown at it, Wavetrak or Quaife LSD upgrade, some good quality street/track pads in the stock Brembo calipers, with a set of good quality street/trackday coilovers like the Öhlins DFVs, those modifications turn a 350Z from a nice grand touring car to a very solid fun sports car.
Great video!...IMO the 987 is the best of the Cayman generation if you want a more engaging driving experience. Last of the hydraulic steering, hand brake in the proper place, lower door sills, a quality and solid "no-frills" interior, great sounding exhaust (especially when upgraded), and arguably the best looking rear end of all the Caymans. I have a 987.2 S and its one of the best cars I've ever owned, and I've had a lot...(Elise, two 911's, Z06, GT500, XKR-S, Alfa 4C, etc...) And, let us not forget the 2009 987.2 S was Motor Trend driver's car of the year, and it was up against cars MUCH higher in price. As of this moment, the Cayman 987.2 S is the only generation of Cayman to win the MT driver's car comparison.
The solution to the scored-bores issue is simple - buy the non-S model. Because those have the shorter stroke, the piston skirt never protrudes beyond the bottom of the bore and therefore the skirt coatings don't become damaged. Also, the lower power output means you get to rev it (and hear it!) more without being dragged away by the paramedics or constabulary. I'm kinda maybe probably shopping for a 987, and I'm looking for a non-S, although if an S popped up for non-S money in the right color, I probably wouldn't say no. IMO the ideal would be one of the VERY rare non-S 6-speed cars. They do exist, but only like 2% of customers ticked that box.
I just bought a 2011 base with 100.133 miles. I was happy to see it has the 6 speed. I didn't even notice at first because I assumed it had the 5 speed.
@JK-ns5dr You have a 987.2 car with the all-new engine. I think the 6-speed may have been more common on those. Either way, bore scoring and IMS are not a problem at all for you. History has shown that engine is a real solid sweetheart, which is why there's a large premium on the 09+ cars. Well bought!
I don't understand how Mark can say a Cayman isn't a 'driver's car'. What the hell is if a Cayman isn't? It's midengine, lightweight, manual, revvy NA motor, what on earth more could you want? They literally DANCE through corners, it's unlink anything else. Oh that's right, it needs to be slow like a Miata or BRZ then it would be a real 'Driver's Car'.
I usually agree with Mark, but not here. Maybe this car was worn out. Dunno, but everyone and their dog has raved about the Cayman since day one as a fantastic driver's car.
He is not wrong it isnt a driver car, if u drive it hard it breaks apart and u are left with a 20k bill or worse a pile of scrap. Its an enthusiast car, u keep it well maintained and weekend drive it for coffee. u dont bring it on the track and rev it to oblivion while doing power slide
@@kenny-yx6himy instructor at PCA would disagree he bounces his off the Rev limiter all day long he beats his track prepped car six ways to Sunday. things I never do.
Mark's assessment is in line with how I felt after test-driving a 987. Maybe he used the wrong word (or maybe "driver's car" means different things to different people). What came to my mind was: it's a good daily GT and it's missing the fizz that I'm looking for in a sports car.
987.1 is a lot of car for the money a real joy to drive and timeless. The manual gearing is excellent for the road and the steering feedback as well. The classic sound and those beautiful hips are classic imho. The ownership experience has been solid for me.
Guys, thank you! I have waited patiently for your review of the 987.1, and it is awesome to have my patience rewarded with a great quick objective overview. Unfortunately, you did NOT trash the car overall, so maybe I’ll have to hang onto my 987.1 a little bit longer! Hah.
Marks attitude towards these cars is a little strange considering his s2000 ownership. Other than an early 986 non S Boxster, I would take any boxster/Cayman over an s2000.
I've had my 2.7 .1 car for over two years now, 17k miles, and I regularly beat on it both on trackdays and competitive sprints. Six speed, normally aspirated, 7,300 RPM redline, I honestly can't think of another car I'd prefer to have parked outside. Love it 😍
2006 Cayman S manual owner here. Car has 80k on the clock, only routine maintenance done, and extremely reliable. 10x the car the gt86 is. Don't drink the kool-aid. Mark is a hater lol
I own a manual transmission base 2005 Boxster with 179K on the speedo. I bought it six years ago with 142k miles. Mechanically its been near perfect, last fall I had to replace the water pump. I figured it would be expensive and tough to fix the water pump but hell no, it was super easy and I did the work in my driveway in one day. I drive my Boxster nearly daily and although its only a base model, I love it every time I drive it. My car shows some wear and tear and has some patina but overall the car is rock solid. Its not the fastest car in the world, but if you rev it out and keep it above 4k on the tach, its fun as hell to drive. I do my own oil changes and I do it every 5k miles. I love my Boxster and I can honestly say its the best car I ever drove.
Great video! One minor correction (03:12), oil level is via a separate menu due to electronic dip stick, the dash gauge is coolant temp. Beyond that, a very fair & objective evaluation...I have a 987.1 and still absolutely love it!
Came to say the same! I went from a 987 caymanto a 997 911 and I weirdly care a lot about having the oil temp gauge. On the cayman, I just had to a wait a few minutes after coolant temp came up and assume oil was at temp, but I appreciate now with the 911 how long that gap can be depending on driving (highway vs city) and like seeing how it adjusts to hard driving
I have a 2008 987.1 Cayman S. Owned 10 years now. Adding some lowering/stiffer springs and wheels/tires to this car will dramatically improve the "connection" you may think are missing from the softer stock suspension. Add a short shifter and all the control points feel very well matched. I have driven all the new stuff and the 987.1 still holds it's head high and is a keeper. No plans on selling anytime soon.
8:26 I get the same look when explaining to people why my E90 M3 is such a great platform…..after you replace rod bearings, actuators and idle control valve, to the tune of 4-6k
I've had my 987.1 for over a year now and it has been a joy to drive. Correction! Pinky Lai was most definitely not the designer of this car, despite the widespread narrative.
Attempting to qualify a few items regarding reliability. Changing the oil regularly and using a high quality oil should mitigate a lot of the bore score concerns. As will refraining from revving the piss out of it cold. That said, Jack suggests it was the 20k oil change intervals that may contribute to bore score. It’s more likely the Nikasil lining in the cylinders coming apart on the cylinder skirts and in the bores. Contrary to what Jack says, this is still an issue with the 987.2 engines because they too have nikasil coatings. I don’t believe this was resolved in the 987.2. My 2008 CS Manual has been a joy to own. I run Driven oil in it with the longest interval being 5k between changes. Threw a Kenwood Apple Car Play head unit in it and a full Fab Speed Exhaust. The car is awesome fun to drive IMHO. And, knock on wood, has been stone cold reliable.
As an owner of a launch year Cayman S with PASM, I can say in 45 years of driving, it’s the best driving car I’ve ever driven! I’m sure the GT4RS is the pinnacle of Porsche driving. I change my oil every year and store it for the Canadian winter, and do oil analysis, with no issues. I would guess up to 5% will have these issues…
I have an ‘06 Cayman S “launch edition”, it does have adjustable suspension, steering and throttle variability, which your tester did not. I’ll say that I must disagree with you regarding this being a true “drivers car”. I purchased this in 2018 from the original owner who paid $80K for it. It had 54,000 miles on it. Today, it has just shy of 100,000 miles on it. Other than brakes, tires and routine maintenance, I have had NO repairs whatsoever. I am planning to replace the adjustable dampers and all other suspension components this summer as I just feel it’s time, but nothing is leaking or a cause for concern. I will tell you that when you track this car, or take it on cross country trips, it is a true gem….I feel after 40,000+ miles of ownership, the sweet spot for this vehicle is between 90MPH and 135MPH, everything is totally locked down and stable in a way that is positively uncanny. I’m keeping this one forever!
Mark is older and wiser. German cars are and have always been overhyped, they're NOT anywhere near as connected as even a Japanese economy car from the 80's and 90's. Sorry, them's the facts.
@@misternordberg3675 you fool. the modern japanese and asian cars in general are just as disconnected in terms of feeling, maybe even more. all cars are. 20 years back, all sport cars had a good connection to the driver and the germans are no exception. at least with the germans you always had performance.
The 987.2 tend to cost at least ten thousand more than a 987.1. That's about the cost of an engine rebuild. If you get a good 987.1 it could be years before it needs a rebuild, or it may never need one. Then there is the option of capacity increase if you do find you need a rebuild which could be very exciting. I've owned my 987.1 for 8 years and is still going strong, but will definitely get a capacity increase if ever it needs a rebuild.
What a great generation porsche, honestly my favorite. Had a 987.1 boxster S and loved every min. Thank you for covering specific generations and affordable sports cars!
I own a 987.1 cayman s and there absolutely is a way to beat the PSM there's a certain wire you can cut and splice in a switch (if you look up on Porsche forums) and you can completely disable PSM and I mean fully there are no nanny's except ABS. If you track I highly recommend you do it, if not, ignore what I just said
I honestly did not see this one coming but I’m glad to see a Savagegeese vid on the 987.1 S which is now one of the best performance bargains you can get on the used market literally 997 S performance for half the price and it’s still a real Porsche Would love to see a Part 2 of this vid with the 987.2 especially on the value, updates, changes, reliability, performance especially with the PDK
Yay, a non-appliance car review! Thanks for putting this one together. Jack, don't let that grumpy old fart Mark get you down. He's miserable in the new stuff and now seems miserable in the older, good stuff.. Needs a diaper change, I guess ;) Seriously though, good stuff. This is one of the cars that's been on my list of possibilities because its somewhat "affordable". Unfortunately, I ran into the same info discussed here and felt like.. Oh, no wonder these are somewhat affordable.. So the version I should get is the .2.. And those are worth a fair bit more. Dammit!
I bought a 987.1 nonS in 2.7 guise because there was nothing on the internet about bore score and it’s been trouble free. It is wonderful. Yes, a bit more power from the S wouldn’t go amiss, but I do enjoy being able to use all the power more of the time. And it still makes all the wonderful noises.
I have a 987.1 base, you can get them for sub £15k in the UK and honestly can't recommend it enough. The base Cayman doesn't have any bore scoring issues, revs out slightly more and cheaper to insure. I've had no issues with mine after a year of ownership. Mega value for money.
I had one of these as well, 987.1 base and had no issues whatsoever. Maintenance is expensive as with all Porsches, and after two years I traded up to a 991.2 carrera manual.
@@obi-wankenobi7160 Not sure where you are but I'm West Mids (UK) - Major service is £400~ and minor service is £200~. Given the fact these are done on multiyear intervals I honestly don't think it's too bad. It probably is a stepping stone to a 997 for me but a great way into sports car ownership. Not sure how much more car for your money you'd get with a 997 other than the obvious layout and power differences.
Just got a 62k mile Cayman S with a 15k miles engine supplied new by Porsche for £14k. It's a great car and really looking forward to taking it to the ring this summer!
PCA just took out a bore score series on youtube and you're facts are not all that right. 987.1 Boxster base has technically no bore scoring, the rest do. It has to do with the piston and cylinder finishes not oil issues.
Bad take on the 987.2 being "far more money". Yes, they are more money. But like the 987.1, they have also bottomed out in depreciation. Some come resale time, your actual cost of ownership will be the same (and likely LESS in the 987.2 due to less inherant issues). And you are getting a better car to drive during that timeframe. Move up to a 981 and there is still some room to depreciate (hell, 981 bases tend to sell for the same or less than a 987.2 CS). Bottom line, IMS and bore score issues on the .1 are real. Many try to claim IMS isn't an issue on these - tell that to the guy who just sold his on BaT that he did a high-end rebuild do to, you guessed it, an IMS failure.
Nice surprise to see you guys reviewing a 987.1. Looking forward to the 987.2 video! Bought a base 987.2 a few years back after 'discovering' them and the Numeric short shifter kit is a must. It brings up the shifting feel to 9/10 of my old S2000.
@@dre32pitt A second hand Honda Civic from 2005 has almost doubled its price for the last two years. Even the not so reliable cars have skyrocketed in price. Hard pill to swallow for a petrol head.
@@spartacus2954 I hear you, but at the same time, with enough digging, you can find gems.. I spot them on CL everyday.. I just dont have the room for em, lol.. The days of just finding good shit because it's everywhere are over.. you gotta work to find deals now, but they are out there
Not a driver's car? I really couldn't disagree more. That may be the only time I've ever heard that criticism levied against a Cayman, particularly of this generation.
Those are aftermarket faux-Fuchs. I had a set on my ‘07 Boxster from TireRack (no longer available). They look great but are definitely a heavier wheel than the stock 18” S wheel version. You can feel the difference.
I wanted a Porsche for some time but don’t know which one but this one may do the trick but having an all will drive one would be better but the price point is just crazy if you be used you have to put it back together again 😢 maybe one day
Damn it I remember when you could get a 987.1 non-S manual for like 10-15k. I shoulda jumped on it then. Or I shoulda gotten an S2k around that same time for 10-15k. This era was definitely peak naturally aspirated cheap-ish sports cars. We may have some downright maniacal NA motors coming out today but they’ll never drop to accessible prices and might even start appreciating immediately. Personally I love the practicality and livability of the standard cayman. I was coming from a Miata and wanted something less frustrating to commute in, but I ended up going too far in the other direction at the time. Plus, from what I understand, these cars could get a lot more direct and exciting with the sportier suspension packs or even Gt3 parts on the aftermarket. Struts are a compromise and while you can work around that, the non PASM models definitely softened up the experience for the rich suburb market. These and the boxsters were always cars for midlife crisis moms, at least based on what I’ve seen. I’ve also gotta ask, I wonder if the aftermarket wheels on that owners car messed with the offset and screwed up the suspension dynamics. Wider wheels without accounting for scrub radius can ruin steering, so I wonder if that change has made this car a little too numb in normal driving. I also didn’t realize the engines on these weren’t as problematic as people insist. They do sound so sweet, especially if you open them up with some extra parts. Or maybe it’s for the best that I didn’t get a car that’s liable to spontaneously drop a couple thousand dollar repair bill in my lap.
I'm loving these non crazy priced fun car reviews! I hope we get many more. The 987.1 is still competitive in autocross in B-Street, which says quite a lot. The rear of the 987 Cayman definitely stands out and makes you look twice.
Before watching: The only real issues with these are IMS which far far less likely to be a problem than prior gens, and bore scoring which is mostly an issue with people idling their cars to let them warm up. People who drive the cars hard, and don't idle excessively don't have issues.
Had a 987.1 Base and drove it from 100k to 160k miles. Besides basic maintenance, only thing that ever went wrong with it was a window regulator and a water pump
I am a bit surprised by this review, although this was the least desirable version of this car, the 987.2 (2009-2013) is the one to get, that version had a limited slip diff (optional but nearly all had it) and also fixed some well known reliability issues. When this car was new it was judged to be one of the best handling driver's car ever made, and that wasn't just fat journalist, actual race car driver's like Randy Pobst agreed. I have had the opportunity to drive several 987's and a few S2000's on the street and on a track, and I would take a 987 over an S2000 any day of the week, for the street use of course, but also for weekend track days. Lots of folks use old 987's for weekend track days, they are great cars for that use. So for you to now literally say that "this is not a driver's car" and "it is only good for eight or nine tenths driving"? This is seriously making me question your judgement.
Yep. I feel like they've pre judged it based on suspension design, or perhaps their test car had tired or worn suspension. Read any contemporary review of this car and it was at the absolute peak of driver engagement. And they still are today if you show them a bend or two.
@@WeirdNeville I don't know about suspension design, I mean every 911 up until the most recent GT3 all have front strut suspension, and they are in love with that car. However you are correct, I have seen many times how poor suspension alignment or bad tires can destroy the handling characteristics of even the best cars, so perhaps that was the case here. It is just odd given that they test cars for a living and never experienced the handling of a Boxter/Cayman? Or are aware of its reputation? So when you drive one that does not feel like a "drivers car" they don't stop and think hey maybe something is wrong with this particular car? I recall just recently he hated the handling of the new C8, then they got hold of one on track with a proper suspension alignment and ended up eating those words. I believe this may be a similar situation. Ah well, perhaps it will help lower the resale value. I recall looking at a low mileage used 2010 Cayman S back in 2015 for $45K and thinking it was a little steep. I don't care how good they are, there is no way I would pay anywhere near $40K for a 13-15 year old sports car. Not when you can get a brand new GR86 with all the modern amenities, safety gear, and full warranty for $30K.
I've seen a youtube comment saying that after 100-130k miles without bore scoring it should not become an issue anymore? Does anyone know if this is true? Currently looking at a nice 987.1S with 115k miles, although for a bit more I could get a worse looking lesser specced 987.2 base with 120k miles
I owned and tracked both a C5 Corvette and a Cayman S (2009, not the 987.1) Comparatively, the Cayman felt like a Lotus Elise in terms of driver involvement after being in the Corvette. This may very well have been more a reflection on just how numb and terrible the Corvette of that generation was. Of course, in terms of lap times and autocrossing, the 'Vette I bought used for about 20K absolutely demolished my Cayman, particularly in high speed sweepers.
I bought a 987.1 S manual w 60k miles. I put another 40, and traded it in with 99k miles. I had to replace a window regulator, and an air-oil separator during that whole time. It has an amazing chassis-so confident.
Social media does what social media does. It leaves people anxious and nail biting, and keeps them from jumping into the water. Meanwhile, there are tons of happy owners driving their 987.1’s with a smile on their face and no issues at all. I have had my 987.1 S 6-speed for 9 years now, and have zero issues. Turning 70,000 miles sometime this year I suspect. Love this car. Completely stock except for 7mm wheel spacers in front and 15mm in rear. Buy it. Enjoy it.
@@lollypop9580 They did a vid on italia some time ago. Interior wear is a peak of pizza technology. Anyone familiar with cappuccino engineering knows that their products are not worth the money.
I had a Basalt Black launch spec 987.1S. Fantastic car and ownership experience. Sport seats are a must. Just address the oil baffling and add some cup shift cables and the car is phenomenal
Do you track regularly? I don't, so didn't look into getting better oil circulation for long, high g, sweepers.. Im definitely doing the numeric shift cables w/ GT3 short shifter.. You still have yours?
There are many people who track with oil system improvements and the engines still fail. The M97 simply wasn't designed with enough safety factor for track work. If you want to do track days, get an '09+ with the 9A1.
@@carverac Those command, on avg, another 10-12k over .1's because of the rarity of the .2's and the engine improvements.. For that kind of money, you could also cross shop an SS 1LE, which will be far more capable on track
@@dre32pitt Yes, less than the cost of a failed M97 rebuild and the 987.2 drives nothing like a Camaro, especially important for a dual use car that's not only for the track, but to each their own
I recommend the 987.1 base, not the S actually. Less horsepower, but it doesn't have the spray-coat on the insides of the cylinder that leads to bore scoring.
I’ve been liking the 987.1 a lot especially the S which is probably the best value for performance you can get especially as it is like the 997 S at half the price It’s also like the spiritual successor to the 356 and 550 especially looking at the design and body lines Would love to see a vid on the 987.2 as yes it is more expensive because it is more rare however it is still great value on the used market and a huge improvement over the 987.1 would be cool to see a comparison between the two models
I have an ‘07 Boxster S 6sp and absolutely love it. It does not (to me) feel disconnected in any way. When I bought it it was by far the quickest thing I had ever driven, let alone owned, and remains a far more capable car then I am a driver. Reliable as well at ~130,000 mile.
Bore scoring is present in a lot of Porsches...possibly even 991.2's let alone caymans.......it may be a miles/time thing and how people drive. PCA just did a 4 part RUclips on bore scoring with LN Engineering and I'd watch that before buying anything with an aluminum block by Porsche (maybe that is all of them....). Bore scoring part 1: ruclips.net/video/G7idZe6qAtg/видео.html Pt2: ruclips.net/video/U_K_XkXx1Tw/видео.html Pt3: ruclips.net/video/-xbPE3YVy3k/видео.html Pt4: ruclips.net/video/3E4VFBqnZiU/видео.html And a video to note: ruclips.net/video/3Epp0l8Y97I/видео.html I have had two 911's in the past. Not willing to risk it now and they are priced too high anyway for normal people now.
After the 914, these 1st gen Caymans are quite posssibly the best Porsche ever. Check out the lap times of the Cayman v. comparble 911's of the day. I swear you must be reading my mind.... this video is timely I've beeen on the hunt for one of these 1st gens. Good to see the youngster's take on it. Thank you. Well Done!
I've been shopping around for a 987.1 for almost a year now. They're getting harder and harder to find in decent condition. In 20 years they will be an absolute classic and unobtainable
I think they will be readily available and most likely not all that collectible simply because the .2 models are rarer and have an improved engine with no IMS worries. It’s the .2 models-especially the Cayman R-that will be the highly collectible ones and will continue to appreciate. The .1 models will always be pretty affordable.
I don't really think so. The GT4 and GT4RS and the Spyder and the GTS 4.0 will be the super expensive ones, but the older base models will probably hover around where they are now imo.
@@royshavrick Yes I agree. But the OP mentioned that the .1 cars in 20 years will be classics and unobtainable. While they will be classics, there were a lot of them made and they will not be as collectible as the .2 cars, therefore they will be quite obtainable. And out of that class of cars, a .2 Cayman R will be quite collectible and valuable. Of course not as valuable as the GT4 or Spyder, which cost much more to begin with.
16:48 Me sitting here with a 987.1 Cayman hardcore track car that I beat on conservatively. With some mods, the problems they listed get wiped out and it becomes a budget GT4 I daresay.
I have a red 987.1 S manual. Awesome car. I have a borla exhaust on it and it sounds super cool. Just enough HP(300). Just change the oil a lot and I’m pretty sure no bore scoring. Also let it warm up and drive below 3k rpm until nice and warm. It’s a over looked car. I also have a 996 turbo S manual, very different cars,both very fun. Cheers boys. Another thing, it has two trunks basically and is a great grocery getter.interesting side note. I believe Porsche used the 550 for styling the rear and the 904 for the front, both mid engine cars as well. In reality it’s probably the best place for the engine.
It is the best place.. which is why Porsche nerfed the Cayman so much when it first came out.. It's still nerfed to a degree, but nothing like in the beginning..
I think there’s also a hint of Carrera GT in the styling if you look dead head-on at both cars. Most 987 owners say: Don’t warm your car up…just start it and drive it while it warms up.
The scoring on the 3.4 is nothing to do with oiling in the sense you highlighted. It's to do with the plastic piston coating breaking down and then the exposed piston skirt damaging the bore. The piston coating breaks done partly because it's not up to the job but also because the lokasil bore material isn't stable and spits out small pieces that get trapped between the bore and the piston skirt, which compromises the coating on the skirt, which in turn breaks down and then you have the wrong skirt material facing the bore and you get scoring.
was this fixed in the 987.2?
@@billycontinental1849Yes. DI engines use classic Alusil material instead Lokasic BS
9A1s have begun to show scoring as miles accumulate, albeit not as prevalent as M9x
@@billycontinental1849 Yes. Completely new engine known as the MA1 or 9A1. It's a pretty solid engine with a far, far lower failure rate than the larger 3.4L+ M97 lumps. Not absolutely perfect, but what engine is? The 2.7L M97 is pretty reliable, though.
@@flatsix1943 Think the issue with the 9A1 / MA1 is quite different both in terms of scale and character. First, it's a tiny number of engines versus the larger M97 lumps. Second, think it's caused by the piston partially seizing in the bore when a user leans on the engine too hard from cold and the piston heats up and expands faster than the bore. Significant user error factor. With the M97, engines that are treated perfectly can and do fail from scoring. So, it's not a case of the same problem but less common, but a completely different issue.
Keep reviewing affordable sports cars, everything interesting today starts at over $50K which most people can't drop on a second car, let alone one car, so it's great to hear professional perspectives on great cars that people can actually get into!
MX-5, 86, Elantra N, WRX, Si, GTI....
Ya MX-5 and 86.. foot to the floor, 90% of roads, the Miata is probably more fun to toss around than this already
Most people cant have a second car period.
@@papa_pt I cross shopped the RF and a .1.. got the .1
Jaguar F-Type 3.0 V6 gives you more than you need....
I bought my first ever Porsche last year and it happened to be a Guards Red 2006 Cayman S with 48,000 miles that I got a decent deal on. My perspective is a bit different as I daily drove a 2000 Honda s2000 for 22 years before I had to sell it and a 2009 Nissan GTR for 12 years now. Out of those 3 cars I enjoy driving the Cayman S the most even though my GTR now has around 630hp at the crank. The reasons for this are pretty simple.... it is light, accurate and you feel absolutely everything you need through the wheel at all times while having _just enough_ power. It also gets just as many looks as the GTR does but from a very different crowd. When I first got into it for a test drive at the dealer I was actually slightly underwhelmed... almost like what you heard in this review. It is important to know that this car grows on you swiftly after you learn how to drive it and what it requires from you to get the most out of the experience.
It was totally unmodified except for a nameless cat-back that I simply could not identify. I now have Soul Performance Exhaust, Numeric shifter cables, Wavetrac LSD, Girodisc 2 piece rotors, IPD Plenum, DSC Sports Controller (think SUPER PASM), LN Engineering Ultimate AOS, new Fuel Injectors, spark plugs, coils and water pump. I also switched over to Driven DI40 Motor Oil. The injectors, oil, water pump and AOS are all designed to keep me from having to do a 20k+ engine rebuild far sooner than I should. I needed a proper controlled baseline as this car had 3 prior owners all over the country in various cold climates. It is absolutely critical you pay attention to these items if you really are serious about owning this car. In particular, leaking old or faulty injectors will wash away the oil in your cylinders which is a leading cause of bore scoring. Always let it warm up by driving it under 3k rpm and never let it idle to warm. Drive it every day if you can as most of the typical bore scoring issues seem to be with cars that are garage queens.
Also, don't do what I did and skip the PPI. I was too eager and just pulled the trigger after my test drive. I had a bore scope done after I bought it and before I started doing my mods. I just got lucky as the engine was perfect upon inspection. I also drove a 2016 Cayman GT4 and a 2021 718 GT4 back to back a few weeks ago. Even though I'm lucky enough to be able to afford either car, I CHOSE to stick with my 987. I feel connected to it when driving it in a way the more modern Caymans simply lacked. This is highly subjective but I have never been more certain of anything in my life after driving all 3 so close together. I prefer the 987.1 Cayman S to the s2000, GTR and both GT4s. Just drive one if you ever get the chance. I let my friends drive all my cars so they can understand why I am the way I am.
Future 987 owner, with plans to hot rod it if the engine ever needs rebuilt. Thank you for your comment and solidifying my future build “dream”.
Fun fact: every performance and body part from a 997 gt3 (from the door forward) will bolt up to a 987!
@@86Digilio That's right, I forgot I also have a GT3 Master Brake Cylinder on the way with stainless steel brake lines. It's just a great platform if you do your research first.
Look up road scholars cayman gtr if you ever get bored.
Why didn't you get a 987.2?
@@iluvcakes19 Like they say in the video, the 987.2 is harder to find and more expensive. Getting the spec you want at the price you want is a crap shoot. Yes, I would have gotten a .2 if both were on the lot that day. I figured get the spec I loved PASM and Sport Mode right in front of me and use the savings to modify it the way I want.
All hail the long gone days of Naturally aspirated engines paired to manual transmissions being a commonality.
Embrace the turbo charged CVT crossover dystopia.
@@Syncopia and Don't forget to wear a mask that doesn't work to protect you from a cold you've already had, and get an untested vaccination while you're at it OR ELSE.
@@Syncopia And you will be happy..
I do love these reviews of older cars that are more affordable. Please keep this up.
great review BUT
IMHO, driving a Porsche on back roads consisting of 1-mile blocks really doesn't even get into its more significant handling advantages... you might as well be driving a US muscle car.
@@oldrrocr It's not only handling but also the feel of the car. A light sports car just feels different even when driven in a straight line.
I own the 987 2.7l. 245bhp. No scoring issues, no IMS issues. Has plenty of power. Would definitely recommend to anyone worried about the S version.
I have the Poverty pack base Cayman. I am sure glad I do, no bore scoring and the IMS bearing is not an issue. Why these experts never point that out is just funny.
@@Tank1TCshhhh keep the base prices down
@@Tank1TCI picked up a gen1 base cayman 2 weeks ago
No regrets 👍
So many errors in this video. There is no oil temperature gauge, the engine on the base 987.2 is 2.9 liters (not 2.7), the gen 1 transmission was not "steptronic" as you called it, it was TipTronic which was made by Mercedes Benz and was bullet-proof, the bore scoring is not from "20,000 mile oil changes" as you claim but from owners, especially in cold weather climates, over revving or idling to warm up and the cylinder liners and engine block expanding at a different rate when going from cold to hot, temperature changes. And Mark's obvious hatred for the Porsche brand is nauseating and out of place on an automotive review channel. You two pride yourselves on mechanical knowledge beyond the typical RUclips channel, but with all the mistakes you put out here, it makes me wonder how many inaccuracies your other videos have?
😂
Cooked them 🤯
I agree with your statement and assessment…I appreciate someone that knows their cars….i liked some of their videos that I managed to watch but even in those few videos I watched kinda got like a snobby/jerky/ahole attitude from the….ummm from the 🧑🦲 guy….
While yes, you are correct they review many cars and quite frankly i think your comment was unwarranted. The point of this channel is to give viewers (that search for it) a deeper insight into these vehicles. With that being said they are by no means an expert at every single car they review. On top of that they were simple and really nonsensical things you called them out on. Anyone looking to buy this car isn’t going to be turned away it because of a videos inaccuracies. Get a grip man if you wanna call out people for simple mistakes go to the Porsche forums, if not enjoy the in depth review.
Ok, Ferdinand!
Let’s chill. This is a channel which reviews many, many cars. It is not an expert Porsche channel. Let’s give these guys a break. Ok, Piech?
The base model 987.1 is also a gem and good value. Had mine for 5 years now, always a blast to drive and hasn’t missed a beat.
Gotta love the poverty spec. Everything you need and nothing you don't. #teampovertyspec
Best car I ever owned.
@@gordondemuynck6579 Same here. I had a 2008 (ordered new, my first Porsche) base model. What I found was many 356 folks also owned Caymans as opposed to 911s. Until a few years ago, it seemed like a well-kept secret.
You can easily see that Mark is not impressed with the older Cayman. Maybe that's because he's used to more modern hyper-fast cars. I just got a 987.1 2.7L "base" Cayman and it's a blast to drive. No, it's not as fast as the "S" model, but it'll still get you into trouble really quick and I'd rather have a smaller engine that I can wring out without getting a speeding ticket. The 2.7 begs you to wring the piss out of it. BTW, the '06-'08 2.7 engines do not suffer from IMS or bore-scoring issues like the 3.4s.
There are controversial opinions, but calling a 987 cayman “not a drivers car” is pushing it.
Calling it a GT and almost in the same sentence calling the Lotus Elise a competitor is also not an indication of knowing what you're talking about.
This is soooo timely. I'm actually looking at 987 Boxsters and Z4M's because I can't justify dropping $40-50K on something that will be a weekend driver.
When I was looking at 987 Boxsters I also looked at the Z3 (closest competitor at the time). The Boxster was hands-down better on all counts. Especially storage and drivability. The cowl shake on the Z3 was terrible.
Boxster is a lot better
Same. Was just researching 987.2. It would be my first Porsche and I'm not rich.
The Z4M is WAY more fun. It's not even comparable. It's as raw as M cars come and the engine can have one of the best induction noises germany has to offer if you get a carbon plenum. I highly recommend to test drive both at 8/10ths before you make a decision.
@@taylorc2542 I was hoping to find an affordable one too. Turns out finding them at all was a bigger challenge than I thought especially the 09 or 10. Right in the heart of the recession made those pretty uncommon cars.
Each Porsche review is another step deeper of Marks descent into madness and I'm here for it
I'm counting the days till he gets a yellow Boxster with red interior
I’ve owned a 2006 Cayman S for over a year now. I love it. It’s a fantastic car for the money.
Tires change the steering feel a lot. Contis like the ones on the test car tend to be a bit soft and less responsive. Put a set of Michelins on it and upgrade the stock dampers and the car will be a lot more connected. It's also one of those cars that doesn't really come to life until you push it hard, which you can't really do on most roads.
Love the sound of that engine after the 2-3 upshift. I can't believe how acclimated I've become to seeing things like the BMW beaver teeth and Lexus PredatorFace -- that Cayman front end looks like an old 356 or something to modern eyes.
Almost 2 years into my 987.1S Boxster ownership and I absolutely love it. It’s been extremely reliable and a joy to drive. Hard pressed to find something more fun in a similar price range.
Got my 2006 boxster S in 2019, and loving it! Especially in paradise, Aloha from Hawaii MK!
'It's not a drivers car'. A light rear wheel drive, two seater coupe with a screaming mid six cilinder engine isn't a drivers car.... Calling the Lotus Elise a competitor at the time and then calling it more of a GT.... Right....
Delusional 😂
Love these throwback reviews!!! Please review a 350Z! Great to hear about more affordable sports cars.
Supported. Hopefully an 07-08. Please do it, Mark/Jack. -Jacques
Gross
It would be awesome if they did two back to back, one that is stock, and one that has had the SPL catalog thrown at it, Wavetrak or Quaife LSD upgrade, some good quality street/track pads in the stock Brembo calipers, with a set of good quality street/trackday coilovers like the Öhlins DFVs, those modifications turn a 350Z from a nice grand touring car to a very solid fun sports car.
@@anydaynow01 Outstanding idea!!!
350Z + S2000 + RX-8 combo video would be 🔥
Straight up no joke, subscribe!!
Great video!...IMO the 987 is the best of the Cayman generation if you want a more engaging driving experience. Last of the hydraulic steering, hand brake in the proper place, lower door sills, a quality and solid "no-frills" interior, great sounding exhaust (especially when upgraded), and arguably the best looking rear end of all the Caymans. I have a 987.2 S and its one of the best cars I've ever owned, and I've had a lot...(Elise, two 911's, Z06, GT500, XKR-S, Alfa 4C, etc...) And, let us not forget the 2009 987.2 S was Motor Trend driver's car of the year, and it was up against cars MUCH higher in price. As of this moment, the Cayman 987.2 S is the only generation of Cayman to win the MT driver's car comparison.
Don’t feel connected to the car? The Cayman is know to be a drivers car with great wheel feed back. Amateur review at best.
Watching this video, and I can’t help think you really missed the mark on mentioning the 2.7.
The solution to the scored-bores issue is simple - buy the non-S model. Because those have the shorter stroke, the piston skirt never protrudes beyond the bottom of the bore and therefore the skirt coatings don't become damaged. Also, the lower power output means you get to rev it (and hear it!) more without being dragged away by the paramedics or constabulary. I'm kinda maybe probably shopping for a 987, and I'm looking for a non-S, although if an S popped up for non-S money in the right color, I probably wouldn't say no. IMO the ideal would be one of the VERY rare non-S 6-speed cars. They do exist, but only like 2% of customers ticked that box.
I just bought a 2011 base with 100.133 miles. I was happy to see it has the 6 speed. I didn't even notice at first because I assumed it had the 5 speed.
@JK-ns5dr You have a 987.2 car with the all-new engine. I think the 6-speed may have been more common on those. Either way, bore scoring and IMS are not a problem at all for you. History has shown that engine is a real solid sweetheart, which is why there's a large premium on the 09+ cars. Well bought!
Remember pre-Covid, these were going for the mid to high teens for a good example…..and yes, I’m talking about the Cayman S, not the base model.
I don't understand how Mark can say a Cayman isn't a 'driver's car'. What the hell is if a Cayman isn't? It's midengine, lightweight, manual, revvy NA motor, what on earth more could you want? They literally DANCE through corners, it's unlink anything else. Oh that's right, it needs to be slow like a Miata or BRZ then it would be a real 'Driver's Car'.
I usually agree with Mark, but not here. Maybe this car was worn out. Dunno, but everyone and their dog has raved about the Cayman since day one as a fantastic driver's car.
He is not wrong it isnt a driver car, if u drive it hard it breaks apart and u are left with a 20k bill or worse a pile of scrap. Its an enthusiast car, u keep it well maintained and weekend drive it for coffee. u dont bring it on the track and rev it to oblivion while doing power slide
I agree. i have alot of european cars and my cayman is my favorite.
You forgot to mention "forgiving"
@@kenny-yx6himy instructor at PCA would disagree he bounces his off the Rev limiter all day long he beats his track prepped car six ways to Sunday. things I never do.
Mark's assessment is in line with how I felt after test-driving a 987. Maybe he used the wrong word (or maybe "driver's car" means different things to different people). What came to my mind was: it's a good daily GT and it's missing the fizz that I'm looking for in a sports car.
987.1 is a lot of car for the money a real joy to drive and timeless. The manual gearing is excellent for the road and the steering feedback as well. The classic sound and those beautiful hips are classic imho. The ownership experience has been solid for me.
Guys, thank you! I have waited patiently for your review of the 987.1, and it is awesome to have my patience rewarded with a great quick objective overview. Unfortunately, you did NOT trash the car overall, so maybe I’ll have to hang onto my 987.1 a little bit longer! Hah.
Good to see you base your decisions on other people's opinions.
@@misternordberg3675 I include humor in my writing sometimes. I guess not everyone caught the sarcasm.
@@hazlgreen
Maybe they were being sarcastic as well🧐
@@zec.4491 nah you can tell
Did I also get it wrong? Let’s rewind the tape. Were we both being sarcastic? I dunno. Let’s end the suspense!
Marks attitude towards these cars is a little strange considering his s2000 ownership. Other than an early 986 non S Boxster, I would take any boxster/Cayman over an s2000.
holy shit that ending hahahaha
Excellent work, I've been looking at picking up one of these so this is perfect. The close up of Mark's face was hilarious too lol.
I've had my 2.7 .1 car for over two years now, 17k miles, and I regularly beat on it both on trackdays and competitive sprints. Six speed, normally aspirated, 7,300 RPM redline, I honestly can't think of another car I'd prefer to have parked outside. Love it 😍
I have the same, it’s the best car in so many ways.
The only other car that I’d want parked outside is another 987.1 (2.7) in a different colour …. just so I had a choice of which colour to drive.
2006 Cayman S manual owner here. Car has 80k on the clock, only routine maintenance done, and extremely reliable. 10x the car the gt86 is. Don't drink the kool-aid. Mark is a hater lol
I own a manual transmission base 2005 Boxster with 179K on the speedo. I bought it six years ago with 142k miles. Mechanically its been near perfect, last fall I had to replace the water pump. I figured it would be expensive and tough to fix the water pump but hell no, it was super easy and I did the work in my driveway in one day. I drive my Boxster nearly daily and although its only a base model, I love it every time I drive it. My car shows some wear and tear and has some patina but overall the car is rock solid. Its not the fastest car in the world, but if you rev it out and keep it above 4k on the tach, its fun as hell to drive. I do my own oil changes and I do it every 5k miles. I love my Boxster and I can honestly say its the best car I ever drove.
Fun fact: Porsche now offers apple car play head units to retrofit older 911s, caymans and cayennes
I'm sure it's really affordable.
Absolutely loving the use of AI lately on this channel!
What are you talking about? That's just Jack after a couple light beers. He doesn't take any shit! Mark better watch his back.
Great video! One minor correction (03:12), oil level is via a separate menu due to electronic dip stick, the dash gauge is coolant temp. Beyond that, a very fair & objective evaluation...I have a 987.1 and still absolutely love it!
Came to say the same! I went from a 987 caymanto a 997 911 and I weirdly care a lot about having the oil temp gauge. On the cayman, I just had to a wait a few minutes after coolant temp came up and assume oil was at temp, but I appreciate now with the 911 how long that gap can be depending on driving (highway vs city) and like seeing how it adjusts to hard driving
When you drive one then you understand . I never knew a car could drive like this. I take turns at 60.
I completely agree.
Mid engine is a game changer
Carrera GT, not 996 styling.
I have a 2008 987.1 Cayman S. Owned 10 years now. Adding some lowering/stiffer springs and wheels/tires to this car will dramatically improve the "connection" you may think are missing from the softer stock suspension. Add a short shifter and all the control points feel very well matched. I have driven all the new stuff and the 987.1 still holds it's head high and is a keeper. No plans on selling anytime soon.
8:26 I get the same look when explaining to people why my E90 M3 is such a great platform…..after you replace rod bearings, actuators and idle control valve, to the tune of 4-6k
can't wait for the 987.2 video :P
I've had my 987.1 for over a year now and it has been a joy to drive. Correction! Pinky Lai was most definitely not the designer of this car, despite the widespread narrative.
Attempting to qualify a few items regarding reliability. Changing the oil regularly and using a high quality oil should mitigate a lot of the bore score concerns. As will refraining from revving the piss out of it cold.
That said, Jack suggests it was the 20k oil change intervals that may contribute to bore score. It’s more likely the Nikasil lining in the cylinders coming apart on the cylinder skirts and in the bores. Contrary to what Jack says, this is still an issue with the 987.2 engines because they too have nikasil coatings. I don’t believe this was resolved in the 987.2.
My 2008 CS Manual has been a joy to own. I run Driven oil in it with the longest interval being 5k between changes. Threw a Kenwood Apple Car Play head unit in it and a full Fab Speed Exhaust. The car is awesome fun to drive IMHO. And, knock on wood, has been stone cold reliable.
Pure. Connected. Porsche. Sinuous design. Hydraulic steering. Manual transmission. Boxter 6 cylinder engine that sings a sweet song.
As an owner of a launch year Cayman S with PASM, I can say in 45 years of driving, it’s the best driving car I’ve ever driven! I’m sure the GT4RS is the pinnacle of Porsche driving. I change my oil every year and store it for the Canadian winter, and do oil analysis, with no issues. I would guess up to 5% will have these issues…
I have an ‘06 Cayman S “launch edition”, it does have adjustable suspension, steering and throttle variability, which your tester did not. I’ll say that I must disagree with you regarding this being a true “drivers car”. I purchased this in 2018 from the original owner who paid $80K for it. It had 54,000 miles on it. Today, it has just shy of 100,000 miles on it. Other than brakes, tires and routine maintenance, I have had NO repairs whatsoever. I am planning to replace the adjustable dampers and all other suspension components this summer as I just feel it’s time, but nothing is leaking or a cause for concern. I will tell you that when you track this car, or take it on cross country trips, it is a true gem….I feel after 40,000+ miles of ownership, the sweet spot for this vehicle is between 90MPH and 135MPH, everything is totally locked down and stable in a way that is positively uncanny. I’m keeping this one forever!
I really enjoy how Jack loves German cars, and Mark is the Japanese car geek. Accidentally hilarious dynamic
Mark is older and wiser. German cars are and have always been overhyped, they're NOT anywhere near as connected as even a Japanese economy car from the 80's and 90's. Sorry, them's the facts.
@@misternordberg3675 you fool. the modern japanese and asian cars in general are just as disconnected in terms of feeling, maybe even more. all cars are. 20 years back, all sport cars had a good connection to the driver and the germans are no exception. at least with the germans you always had performance.
The 987.2 tend to cost at least ten thousand more than a 987.1. That's about the cost of an engine rebuild. If you get a good 987.1 it could be years before it needs a rebuild, or it may never need one. Then there is the option of capacity increase if you do find you need a rebuild which could be very exciting. I've owned my 987.1 for 8 years and is still going strong, but will definitely get a capacity increase if ever it needs a rebuild.
What a great generation porsche, honestly my favorite. Had a 987.1 boxster S and loved every min. Thank you for covering specific generations and affordable sports cars!
I own a 987.1 cayman s and there absolutely is a way to beat the PSM there's a certain wire you can cut and splice in a switch (if you look up on Porsche forums) and you can completely disable PSM and I mean fully there are no nanny's except ABS. If you track I highly recommend you do it, if not, ignore what I just said
I honestly did not see this one coming but I’m glad to see a Savagegeese vid on the 987.1 S which is now one of the best performance bargains you can get on the used market literally 997 S performance for half the price and it’s still a real Porsche
Would love to see a Part 2 of this vid with the 987.2 especially on the value, updates, changes, reliability, performance especially with the PDK
Yay, a non-appliance car review! Thanks for putting this one together. Jack, don't let that grumpy old fart Mark get you down. He's miserable in the new stuff and now seems miserable in the older, good stuff.. Needs a diaper change, I guess ;) Seriously though, good stuff. This is one of the cars that's been on my list of possibilities because its somewhat "affordable". Unfortunately, I ran into the same info discussed here and felt like.. Oh, no wonder these are somewhat affordable.. So the version I should get is the .2.. And those are worth a fair bit more. Dammit!
I bought a 987.1 nonS in 2.7 guise because there was nothing on the internet about bore score and it’s been trouble free. It is wonderful. Yes, a bit more power from the S wouldn’t go amiss, but I do enjoy being able to use all the power more of the time. And it still makes all the wonderful noises.
I have a 987.1 base, you can get them for sub £15k in the UK and honestly can't recommend it enough. The base Cayman doesn't have any bore scoring issues, revs out slightly more and cheaper to insure. I've had no issues with mine after a year of ownership. Mega value for money.
I had one of these as well, 987.1 base and had no issues whatsoever. Maintenance is expensive as with all Porsches, and after two years I traded up to a 991.2 carrera manual.
@@obi-wankenobi7160 Not sure where you are but I'm West Mids (UK) - Major service is £400~ and minor service is £200~. Given the fact these are done on multiyear intervals I honestly don't think it's too bad.
It probably is a stepping stone to a 997 for me but a great way into sports car ownership. Not sure how much more car for your money you'd get with a 997 other than the obvious layout and power differences.
Just got a 62k mile Cayman S with a 15k miles engine supplied new by Porsche for £14k. It's a great car and really looking forward to taking it to the ring this summer!
PCA just took out a bore score series on youtube and you're facts are not all that right. 987.1 Boxster base has technically no bore scoring, the rest do. It has to do with the piston and cylinder finishes not oil issues.
Yes I also made this comment it was the Lokasil cylinder coating not oiling issues
Bad take on the 987.2 being "far more money". Yes, they are more money. But like the 987.1, they have also bottomed out in depreciation. Some come resale time, your actual cost of ownership will be the same (and likely LESS in the 987.2 due to less inherant issues). And you are getting a better car to drive during that timeframe. Move up to a 981 and there is still some room to depreciate (hell, 981 bases tend to sell for the same or less than a 987.2 CS).
Bottom line, IMS and bore score issues on the .1 are real. Many try to claim IMS isn't an issue on these - tell that to the guy who just sold his on BaT that he did a high-end rebuild do to, you guessed it, an IMS failure.
Nice surprise to see you guys reviewing a 987.1. Looking forward to the 987.2 video!
Bought a base 987.2 a few years back after 'discovering' them and the Numeric short shifter kit is a must. It brings up the shifting feel to 9/10 of my old S2000.
Do take a look at Function First Shifter Cable Ends! That will get that last tenth of direct mechanical feel into the shifter.
There's some reliability problems with this engine 👀👀👀👀👀👀 😑😌
There is hardly any affordable car these days. Especially older, good sport cars.
There's always 'The Answer'
@@dre32pitt A second hand Honda Civic from 2005 has almost doubled its price for the last two years. Even the not so reliable cars have skyrocketed in price. Hard pill to swallow for a petrol head.
Sign me up for a 2006 Hyundai Tiburon GT with 180k miles and a burnt-out clutch
@@spartacus2954 I hear you, but at the same time, with enough digging, you can find gems.. I spot them on CL everyday.. I just dont have the room for em, lol.. The days of just finding good shit because it's everywhere are over.. you gotta work to find deals now, but they are out there
@@spartacus2954 he's talking about a Miata
Not a driver's car? I really couldn't disagree more. That may be the only time I've ever heard that criticism levied against a Cayman, particularly of this generation.
I don't think I've ever seen a 987.1 Cayman with those wheels before and I really like the look. Thanks for doing this one!
Those are aftermarket faux-Fuchs. I had a set on my ‘07 Boxster from TireRack (no longer available). They look great but are definitely a heavier wheel than the stock 18” S wheel version. You can feel the difference.
I looked them up, they Fuchs wheels and they are around $8000 for a set of 4.
Humm, personally I think they look terrible on this car.
I wanted a Porsche for some time but don’t know which one but this one may do the trick but having an all will drive one would be better but the price point is just crazy if you be used you have to put it back together again 😢 maybe one day
Fantastic video!
3.4 owner with Soul Performance headers and street exhaust, tuned with softronic - turns a 987 from a solid 8 to a 9.5. So much more fun.
Damn it I remember when you could get a 987.1 non-S manual for like 10-15k. I shoulda jumped on it then. Or I shoulda gotten an S2k around that same time for 10-15k. This era was definitely peak naturally aspirated cheap-ish sports cars. We may have some downright maniacal NA motors coming out today but they’ll never drop to accessible prices and might even start appreciating immediately.
Personally I love the practicality and livability of the standard cayman. I was coming from a Miata and wanted something less frustrating to commute in, but I ended up going too far in the other direction at the time.
Plus, from what I understand, these cars could get a lot more direct and exciting with the sportier suspension packs or even Gt3 parts on the aftermarket. Struts are a compromise and while you can work around that, the non PASM models definitely softened up the experience for the rich suburb market. These and the boxsters were always cars for midlife crisis moms, at least based on what I’ve seen.
I’ve also gotta ask, I wonder if the aftermarket wheels on that owners car messed with the offset and screwed up the suspension dynamics. Wider wheels without accounting for scrub radius can ruin steering, so I wonder if that change has made this car a little too numb in normal driving.
I also didn’t realize the engines on these weren’t as problematic as people insist. They do sound so sweet, especially if you open them up with some extra parts.
Or maybe it’s for the best that I didn’t get a car that’s liable to spontaneously drop a couple thousand dollar repair bill in my lap.
Get a base model 2.7l they are about 5k lesz than an S, and avoid the bore scoring issues.
I'm loving these non crazy priced fun car reviews! I hope we get many more.
The 987.1 is still competitive in autocross in B-Street, which says quite a lot. The rear of the 987 Cayman definitely stands out and makes you look twice.
Before watching: The only real issues with these are IMS which far far less likely to be a problem than prior gens, and bore scoring which is mostly an issue with people idling their cars to let them warm up.
People who drive the cars hard, and don't idle excessively don't have issues.
Please do the same with 981! ❤
Had a 987.1 Base and drove it from 100k to 160k miles. Besides basic maintenance, only thing that ever went wrong with it was a window regulator and a water pump
8:25 that look on his face re: 987 reliability issues...
+1 for 987.2 review
Couldn't give me a boxer or a Cayman that I wouldn't sell immediately to the highest bidder.
I am a bit surprised by this review, although this was the least desirable version of this car, the 987.2 (2009-2013) is the one to get, that version had a limited slip diff (optional but nearly all had it) and also fixed some well known reliability issues. When this car was new it was judged to be one of the best handling driver's car ever made, and that wasn't just fat journalist, actual race car driver's like Randy Pobst agreed. I have had the opportunity to drive several 987's and a few S2000's on the street and on a track, and I would take a 987 over an S2000 any day of the week, for the street use of course, but also for weekend track days.
Lots of folks use old 987's for weekend track days, they are great cars for that use. So for you to now literally say that "this is not a driver's car" and "it is only good for eight or nine tenths driving"? This is seriously making me question your judgement.
Yep. I feel like they've pre judged it based on suspension design, or perhaps their test car had tired or worn suspension. Read any contemporary review of this car and it was at the absolute peak of driver engagement. And they still are today if you show them a bend or two.
@@WeirdNeville I don't know about suspension design, I mean every 911 up until the most recent GT3 all have front strut suspension, and they are in love with that car. However you are correct, I have seen many times how poor suspension alignment or bad tires can destroy the handling characteristics of even the best cars, so perhaps that was the case here. It is just odd given that they test cars for a living and never experienced the handling of a Boxter/Cayman? Or are aware of its reputation? So when you drive one that does not feel like a "drivers car" they don't stop and think hey maybe something is wrong with this particular car?
I recall just recently he hated the handling of the new C8, then they got hold of one on track with a proper suspension alignment and ended up eating those words. I believe this may be a similar situation.
Ah well, perhaps it will help lower the resale value. I recall looking at a low mileage used 2010 Cayman S back in 2015 for $45K and thinking it was a little steep. I don't care how good they are, there is no way I would pay anywhere near $40K for a 13-15 year old sports car. Not when you can get a brand new GR86 with all the modern amenities, safety gear, and full warranty for $30K.
If I’m not mistaken, five years ago the “PCA I never take this car out and I’m gonna die in it” version was $25k. Now it’s $40k. Thanks Obiden.
I'm a 911 owner and I love the 987. Hope to add one to my garage someday. Fantastic cars!
I've seen a youtube comment saying that after 100-130k miles without bore scoring it should not become an issue anymore? Does anyone know if this is true? Currently looking at a nice 987.1S with 115k miles, although for a bit more I could get a worse looking lesser specced 987.2 base with 120k miles
Finally! Been asking about this on the live Q&As for ages. Can't wait to see the eventual 987.2 video too! Lots of love from Australia.
I fall asleep every time German car owners/reviewers spew the generation code numbers ...
the 987.1 and 987.2 are best looking Porsches since the 930 imo
Agreed
I owned and tracked both a C5 Corvette and a Cayman S (2009, not the 987.1) Comparatively, the Cayman felt like a Lotus Elise in terms of driver involvement after being in the Corvette. This may very well have been more a reflection on just how numb and terrible the Corvette of that generation was.
Of course, in terms of lap times and autocrossing, the 'Vette I bought used for about 20K absolutely demolished my Cayman, particularly in high speed sweepers.
I bought a 987.1 S manual w 60k miles. I put another 40, and traded it in with 99k miles. I had to replace a window regulator, and an air-oil separator during that whole time. It has an amazing chassis-so confident.
Then why did you get rid of it?
Social media does what social media does. It leaves people anxious and nail biting, and keeps them from jumping into the water. Meanwhile, there are tons of happy owners driving their 987.1’s with a smile on their face and no issues at all. I have had my 987.1 S 6-speed for 9 years now, and have zero issues. Turning 70,000 miles sometime this year I suspect. Love this car. Completely stock except for 7mm wheel spacers in front and 15mm in rear. Buy it. Enjoy it.
That's the build quality that ferrari will never have.
458 aren't Bad. I would rather blame consumptions.
@@lollypop9580 They did a vid on italia some time ago. Interior wear is a peak of pizza technology. Anyone familiar with cappuccino engineering knows that their products are not worth the money.
I’d love this but it would ruin my life because of my middle class salary.
I had a Basalt Black launch spec 987.1S. Fantastic car and ownership experience. Sport seats are a must. Just address the oil baffling and add some cup shift cables and the car is phenomenal
I would go nuts if I couldn't turn off all the electronics, and without a mechanical LSD.
Do you track regularly? I don't, so didn't look into getting better oil circulation for long, high g, sweepers.. Im definitely doing the numeric shift cables w/ GT3 short shifter.. You still have yours?
There are many people who track with oil system improvements and the engines still fail.
The M97 simply wasn't designed with enough safety factor for track work.
If you want to do track days, get an '09+ with the 9A1.
@@carverac Those command, on avg, another 10-12k over .1's because of the rarity of the .2's and the engine improvements.. For that kind of money, you could also cross shop an SS 1LE, which will be far more capable on track
@@dre32pitt Yes, less than the cost of a failed M97 rebuild and the 987.2 drives nothing like a Camaro, especially important for a dual use car that's not only for the track, but to each their own
I recommend the 987.1 base, not the S actually. Less horsepower, but it doesn't have the spray-coat on the insides of the cylinder that leads to bore scoring.
I’ve been liking the 987.1 a lot especially the S which is probably the best value for performance you can get especially as it is like the 997 S at half the price
It’s also like the spiritual successor to the 356 and 550 especially looking at the design and body lines
Would love to see a vid on the 987.2 as yes it is more expensive because it is more rare however it is still great value on the used market and a huge improvement over the 987.1 would be cool to see a comparison between the two models
Interesting Porsche commercial @ 5:20 🤔
Jack: "What was that noise?"
Mark: "I hit one of the barn cats passing the farm."
After having an IMS failure in the prior gen Boxter S along with other failures.....never ever another overpriced Porsche.
Interesting, entertaining, as always. I'm not in the market for a weekend/fun car but if I were this would be very helpful.
‘Not a driver’s car’, said no one ever about a Cayman. ‘Cept this guy. Smh.
I have an ‘07 Boxster S 6sp and absolutely love it. It does not (to me) feel disconnected in any way. When I bought it it was by far the quickest thing I had ever driven, let alone owned, and remains a far more capable car then I am a driver. Reliable as well at ~130,000 mile.
Bore scoring is present in a lot of Porsches...possibly even 991.2's let alone caymans.......it may be a miles/time thing and how people drive. PCA just did a 4 part RUclips on bore scoring with LN Engineering and I'd watch that before buying anything with an aluminum block by Porsche (maybe that is all of them....).
Bore scoring part 1:
ruclips.net/video/G7idZe6qAtg/видео.html
Pt2:
ruclips.net/video/U_K_XkXx1Tw/видео.html
Pt3:
ruclips.net/video/-xbPE3YVy3k/видео.html
Pt4:
ruclips.net/video/3E4VFBqnZiU/видео.html
And a video to note:
ruclips.net/video/3Epp0l8Y97I/видео.html
I have had two 911's in the past. Not willing to risk it now and they are priced too high anyway for normal people now.
After the 914, these 1st gen Caymans are quite posssibly the best Porsche ever. Check out the lap times of the Cayman v. comparble 911's of the day.
I swear you must be reading my mind.... this video is timely I've beeen on the hunt for one of these 1st gens.
Good to see the youngster's take on it.
Thank you. Well Done!
Thanks dan. Its a shame the prices now are getting so high.
Where did U find that driver who has NO idea of Porsche engineering and driving? Granddad? Neighbour? OMG..........so lost. 🤣😂🤣
I've been shopping around for a 987.1 for almost a year now. They're getting harder and harder to find in decent condition. In 20 years they will be an absolute classic and unobtainable
Keep looking. It took me a good amount of time while casually looking to find the one I have now. It was worth the wait.
Overrated junk.
I think they will be readily available and most likely not all that collectible simply because the .2 models are rarer and have an improved engine with no IMS worries. It’s the .2 models-especially the Cayman R-that will be the highly collectible ones and will continue to appreciate. The .1 models will always be pretty affordable.
I don't really think so. The GT4 and GT4RS and the Spyder and the GTS 4.0 will be the super expensive ones, but the older base models will probably hover around where they are now imo.
@@royshavrick Yes I agree. But the OP mentioned that the .1 cars in 20 years will be classics and unobtainable. While they will be classics, there were a lot of them made and they will not be as collectible as the .2 cars, therefore they will be quite obtainable. And out of that class of cars, a .2 Cayman R will be quite collectible and valuable. Of course not as valuable as the GT4 or Spyder, which cost much more to begin with.
16:48 Me sitting here with a 987.1 Cayman hardcore track car that I beat on conservatively. With some mods, the problems they listed get wiped out and it becomes a budget GT4 I daresay.
I have a red 987.1 S manual. Awesome car. I have a borla exhaust on it and it sounds super cool. Just enough HP(300). Just change the oil a lot and I’m pretty sure no bore scoring. Also let it warm up and drive below 3k rpm until nice and warm. It’s a over looked car. I also have a 996 turbo S manual, very different cars,both very fun. Cheers boys. Another thing, it has two trunks basically and is a great grocery getter.interesting side note. I believe Porsche used the 550 for styling the rear and the 904 for the front, both mid engine cars as well. In reality it’s probably the best place for the engine.
It is the best place.. which is why Porsche nerfed the Cayman so much when it first came out.. It's still nerfed to a degree, but nothing like in the beginning..
I think there’s also a hint of Carrera GT in the styling if you look dead head-on at both cars.
Most 987 owners say: Don’t warm your car up…just start it and drive it while it warms up.
i smashed that like button 2,222,222,222,222,222 times