It sounds too authentic (the arguing). I genuinely don’t think they like each other. It’s awkward, just like watching a married couple argue that you aren’t sure will stay married. Facial expressions and body language tell all.
It's my 30th birthday. I now have come to realize that my days are numbered as I sit on the porcelain throne. But by God does this notification for a new Savagegeese video make it all the more better
work out, get in stupid good shape, do whatever you wana do, cuz we never know when we'll be rotting in a box... it can literally happen anytime, heart attack, cancers, etc. its all up to God
Assuming this is all a simulation, that I was able to choose the point in time I began, and knowing myself now… Get your 718 now, ‘cause we’re going to see the end.
Whenever I get on YT and see a new savagegeese video, I don't get any work done. This is the best channel. I'm pretty sure other car review channels just regurgitate what these guys say.
It's like that with videogames, movies, and musical stuff too, I noticed. There's a brief that goes into circulation to all the mainstream outlets, who then crib or otherwise borrow their "review" wholesale once an advertising check clears. I notice marketing speak and the same descriptors being used all the time. These "reviews" are generally written before the product is released the same way press releases get reposted with a few extra sentences spliced in by a copy editor with the journalist having minimal input.
@@12ealDealOfficial all I know is if I hear 1 more person say "The S2000 had the most hp per liter, before the Fer..." I swear to God, I'm going to drive my S2000 into a bus full of kids.
The Alfa 4C is north of $70k, so relatively the 718T is a screaming bargain. 300ps, clutch pedal, legit 170mph top speed; you’re getting a lot. And just look at it. It’s beautiful!
Yep! The cars are just the canvas for another great Savageese experience. Their honesty about how a product compares vs the broad market and not just the new car market is very refreshing and informative.
Excellent video, you guys are great! As an owner of the Boxster T, I can say that if anybody is debating whether to pull the trigger or not, to go ahead, they will not regret it. Have owned it since April, have put over 6K miles on it and have not regretted the purchase. Absolutely love the car and have been enjoying everything about it.
I have a 2018 GTS I bought CPO this year. I really like the interior. Wish the full leather was standard though. Compared to the Supra (which I was also looking at) I much preferred this.
I'm on the other side. I want a more special interior for that price. Better to save up more money or get a cheaper car that delivers most of the enjoyment.
I just picked up a T! Its a beautiful car. I traded my 2022 s3 for it and while the tech was a downgrade, the driving feel cant wipe a smile off my face. The power is great. I can kick the rear end out whenever i want, and from 2-6k rpm this thin is legendary. Its the perfect daily driver because it can be tame. If you want a track car, get a gts #saveTheManuals
@@WarriorsPhoto To get Porsche's best suspension and transmission in the lightest car they sell for only $9k above base price. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the only other way to get that setup is to spend $20k over base for the GTS 4.0. Edit: $20k
I currently own a pretty decently specked 718 base (after owning a 981). I recently had the chance to try out a GTS 4.0. Putting the sentimental part of the 6-cylinder howl aside, I came to the conclusion that I am actually really liking the 2.0 base as a package. The GTS would have been around 35.000 $ more compared to what I purchased the base 2.0 for. That is a substantial amount of money. Add to that taxes which are 3x of what I pay for my 2.0, an issuance which would cost me 30% more, higher maintenance costs and the fact that I average 32.7 mpg including using my car as a daily commuter and blasting up and down mountain passes in my free time. As an enthusiast and someone who could afford the GTS 4.0: Yes, the sound is awesome, revving it out is lots of fun and the responsiveness of the engine is amazing. But does it make up for the flawed gear ratios? For the fact that I can barely rev out 2nd gear without loosing my license? For all the extra costs that come attached to it? In my opinion: No The 4-cylinder engines have been talked down upon a lot, but I quite like what this car represents and it’s character. Light, nimble, fun.
Hi, thanks for yr opinion. As you, I currently own C981 and thinking to change to 718C T. I share the idea that the 4.0 would be great, but very expensive (fuel & taxes in Europa) Only doubt I have is the engine sound: will I miss the 981 for that reason ? Pls advise. Rgs & see my channel
"For the fact that I can barely rev out 2nd gear without loosing my license? " - very well put. I feel the same way especially on my little back roads.
@@PointNemo9 Don’t get me wrong, the 981 was lovely and I still remember that flat 6 note fondly. However it was a pretty basic spec, like for example no xenon headlights, no cruise control etc. The 718, especially since I daily it, is a far more capable and complete car. The very accessible power is a nice plus as well. Thanks to the pandemic I was able to sell my 981 for a handsome profit and that made getting the 718 a no-brainer.
I would definitely get a GTS over a C8. But I don't think I could get over that 4 cylinder on the 718 S. It sounds so much worse and makes so much less power than the V8 in the C8.
@@Sinoops maybe thats the main problem of the 718. All the money is in its chasis suspension and transmission, but its normal for people to think of the engine has the main money sump, the heart of the car
Well here in Europe there is a significant price difference,about 15 000 euros. Also in some markets it is much more expensive to register a 4.0. And many people would prefer a nicely speced T over S,they value esthetics and details more than 50 bhp. Understandable in my opinion,718 isnt exactly a straightline monster,its more about corners and finesse, so i can see that someone enjoys T more than base S,after all 300bhp is plenty for real world road use.
I was considering the T this past spring but ended up finding an allocation and optioned the base with the Sport Chrono, Torque Vectoring and PASM. The only other options I added was Lane Change Assist and GT Silver. With a slight dealer discount it was just under $70k. I waited 20 years for this and wanted a driver's car and optioning the car this way saved about $10k and I got a driver's car that is everything the T is save the ridiculously expensive wheels and another 10MM lowered. I've put 2,500 miles on the car this summer almost all with the top down and it is total blast and IMO a great value (for a new Porsche) if optioned this way. Having researched this extensively, the T is not the sweet spot, the base is as outlined above or if I wanted to drop $30k more, the GTS with the 4.0L six cylinder.
Agreed - base Porsches always represent the best value to me as they have 90% of the driving experience of the higher models at much lower cost. For example, I ordered a new 2013 981 Boxster when they came out with just a few options and I think it was the best 50k you could spend on a car -- it was more than fast enough and I had to reign myself in constantly. A few years later I enjoyed a base 997 C2 -- didn't miss the "S" at all. I will say that I prefer the S in the 986 & 987 but the base ones are great too. For the newer models however (981/991 and newer) - the base are more than enough power/performance for street driving and probably more enjoyable as they can be revved out more. Final counterpoint -- the 981 GT4 was one of the best cars I've ever driven by far!
Regarding pricing debate about "for 80k, might as well get a 911 or GTS 4.0", there's still a massive difference in the prices between the boxster/S/T and the 4.0s and 911s. It's sometimes double that price for a solid 911 in a comparable generation. IMO this car still exists as a lesser-priced version of a Porsche platform priced so much higher, and occupies a solid place in the market, especially in more economically inflated regions.
Way better to just get a 981 at that point. Handling is just about as good, just about as fast or even faster with an ECU tune, it will depreciate far less, and you get the 6 cylinder.
@@maynardewm Correct. Just pay the extra 15,000 to get the 718 GTS or, if you cant afford that, get a flat six 981. No point in getting a 4-popper for $78,000.
When I was younger, the numerical advantage was important, but now its not. I'd rather have the older 6 Cyl than a new 4 Cyl. Almost pulled the trigger on a 1st gen Cayman S a few times, but its hard to justify because there's not many tracks or mountain roads within a few hours of where i live.... 99% of mileage would be commuting on boring roads.
@@jeffreysalzman1497 Bought a 987.2 in March, it's great on any road and fantastic on twisties! looks SOOO much better than a 911 and the NA 6 sounds wonderful, love it.
Nice. I had looked at a couple 911's (993 and 996's) and for the price and what I want the Cayman/Boxter check off more boxes. I don't want a ton of electronics, i want an analog experience.
For approximately $10k less you can get a base Boxster with 97% of the driving potential and 100% of the driving enjoyment. Get one a year or two old (if you can find one) and save even more.
@@markmiller3279 LOL, bullshit, sub 200,000k everyone is price sensitive. If you weren't price sensitive and you wanted a decent mid engined sports car, you'd get a McLaren or a Ferrari or something. The fact that these things aren't selling proves that nobody wants these 4 cylinder over priced VAG bean counter designed shitboxes. Even in this price bracket, there are far, far better options. They even talk about this very thing in the video.
After watching this channel for years, I must say this is one of the best videos from the channel. Excellent work guys. Really enjoyed the discussion since it represents the ongoing back and forth we all tend to have as enthusiasts when it comes to packaging, pricing, and performance.
I'm with Jack on the interior - it's simple and dated in a good way and thus is relatively future proof. I'm very very tempted to buy a 718 Spyder because of the fact that it is the perfect blend of 90's and early 2000's car design and 2020 refinement and engineering
I mostly like it, but the rows of identical buttons were a bad idea, even if they are physical. They haven't given this thing a major redo in way too long, and it's starting to be obvious.
I bought one this year because I was afraid they would modernize the interior :) I'm not a fan of the new Porsche interiors. Look cheap when the power is off and always loaded with finger prints
I owned two MX-5s and loved them, but they were a tiny bit too small, and as I'm getting older with a bit more disposable income, Porsche is extremely attractive. Can't really get a mid-engine, RWD sports car that's not an exotic, and the Corvette is too big/ostentatious/heavy. And the whole "just get a GTS or 911" is kind of silly. The GTS is almost $30K more (that's not nothing), and the 911 similarly equipped is WELL over $50,000 more.
As a guy that currently owns several Porsches and loved and owned a Miata, I agree with Jack on this. His take is right on. I loved my Miata and plan to buy another soon. But if you can afford it there is nothing like Porsche.
I love the Interstellar vibe of the cornfield B roll at the start of the drive segment. Car commercial grade. Savage Geese is the one channel where I always remember to max out playback quality at the start of every vid (now that that’s a f***ing thing).
Agree, they do a great job....and especially of making that road look majestic because I frequently drive the same road and it’s actually a shitty road littered with gravel, dirt and stones in all the corners
@@jameswillard1 I’ve thought for a couple years that all SavageGeese is missing is a better backdrop for their vids. I’ve gone as far as to contemplate how much better the scenery would be in every review if they were to do a hostile takeover of TFL’s turf in Denver. Thankfully, SavageGeese seem to have better and better access to that racetrack which is 10/10 more visually appealing than the cornfield access roads or whatever their called. Lol
It is actually a bit VW group fault. Dieselgate unleashed hell on all of the industry and no one acted or lobby against. VW as a main cause BUT also as a most powerfull force should have been more active in stopping the overregulation. Car market is dead for a normal man. I am happy with my Evora and F Lexus but I am with the main street enthusiast in my heart, I am sad... For todays $ I am not going the Porsche way ever as much as I agree that there is no substitute for a Porsche GT or enthusiast oriented product.
@@ghostridertom yes, I did not think of it that way. These vehicles are too expensive for me for what they are and how I would actually use it. I am probably better off with Mark's approach of getting a Lexus of some kind. I would probably get something in the RC designation vs the LC as I have dropped far too much money on beef and cheddars over the years 😅
@@aaronelmquist8607 Get slightly used RC F and enjoy it for a decade to come. You can get it for a really nice price and it is a real "F" so all the goodies of a super GT but track capable car (a bit heavy but fun). I am going after final RC F 2022 as it ends here in Europe and it goes out with a blaze of glory (Fuji Edition but not called so in Europe but it is the same specs and colours and so on). Expensive but for me legendary and I am fortunate enough to be able to pay half now and the rest I can finance with ok conditions.
In 2013, I bought a CPO 991 911S (10,000 miles) for $92K (MSRP was $128K). My 911 has over 80,000 miles on it today and I may never sell it. This review explains both why I purchased that car and why I purchased the way I did. Nice review that encapsulates the whole Porsche debate that is reflected in the review and in the comments. As a note for the folks watching this video...consider a 991...it's a better car than the Boxster.
Getns! Long time subscriber, big fan. Some of the best automotive content around. March of 2021 I was in this exact market, this exact price range. And I bought…. *drumroll*… the G29 BMW Z4 M40i. Because I, like the vast majority of shoppers here, am never going to track this car. What I wanted was a top down driving experience that delivers thrills when I want them. Which is largely getting to 62 (100km/h) as fast as possible on country roads, feeling that rush early in the rev range, etc etc. It also corners as well as anyone could want for an on-road experience, and with the excellent e-diff, let’s the rear end break loose just enough for fun. I’m an enthusiast, who fully understands that these cars aren’t going to see a track. If I’m going to at track, I’m buying a used Miata, and kitting it out properly. Just my real world $.02
Great review! I had the pleasure of putting 500 miles on a 718 Boxter T over the weekend and was amazed at the build quality. It had 30,000 rental miles on it and was perfectly quiet with no squeaks or rattles! My next sports car will no doubt be a 718 GTS or Spyder
I’ve only recently began watching this channel, and it has become my go to for car content. Absolutely love the format of the videos and both perspectives.
I’ve been lukewarm on the 4 cyl 718’s until the T. I’d still dearly love the 4.0, but I honestly think the T would be just as satisfying to own for me. They may have made some refinements to the noise since launch, since I think it sounds excellent (albeit not a patch on the old cars). It’s not cheap, but you can skip a lot of the pricy cosmetic options and it’s far cheaper than the GTS in the real world. Arguments about “what’s another 20k once you’re spending 80” just don’t land… it’s still a huge amount more.
Exactly; for some people, they'll be stretching their finances to buy, so another 20K is going to be out of the question; it's not a "toy" purchase for every buyer; it wouldn't be, for me either.
I have a T Cayman 6MT on order. Lucky to get the one allocation dealer had available, 4 months wait. Could have picked up a GTS 4.0 from showroom (guy ordered and then backed out). Price difference, $30k and that’s before taxes, insurance, etc. but what really made me choose the T is the combination of rare/unique (maybe 300 in total in US when all said and done) and more I saw on the 4.0 manual more I realized that I could not really explore the power-band on regular roads beyond 2nd gear (and even that is way too long and fast. So, since I want to have fun daily driving a manual, the T is great. Expensive, yes, but over 5 or so years not crazy and I will be able to use four gears getting on the highway instead of 2.
@@zdenekk.8564 Fully agreed on your thinking and congrats! I feel like glorious as the GTS is, the gearing would render it a constant frustration as you say. You’ll get a lot more joy out of the T (and with the rarity factor, you probably won’t pay much for it).
What an amazing review of this car. Thank you Jack for not shying away from making fact-based good arguments against price. In my opinion, the price is totally justified. Nobody in the world delivers such a car for less, do they? The refinement, the engineering, the driving experience, the reliability, the way this car holds it's value, the exotic looks, the prestige of owning this brand - I am nothing but totally convinced this is a great and top of the line product that one could get for their money. People asked for a great car, and Porsche delivered. They can't sell something for 50k that should be 80k, as Mark wants it. That would be saying why Ferraris or Lambos are close to 300-400k, they should be 100ks. No, good products/things come at a price, and this is a totally fair price. Cheap products don't necessarily mean value products and expensive products don't necessarily mean lack of value, I wish every body understood that. While there are cheaper cars like Mazda Miata ND2 and Toyota Supra, they don't nearly have the same goods to offer as this car. If you don't believe me, go ahead and try to rate these cars unbiased on the areas of this Boxster T I've mentioned above. I am sure you will see other cars don't even give this Boxster T a run for it's money. No wonder why Mark agrees to pick this one up instead of a soulful V8 motor car, Corvette C8. If a meat lover chooses to grab a vegetarian meal, you know the vegetarian meal must be wickedly good!
An amazing, and honest review. You two nailed the exact decision tree all of us who can easily afford a Miata, but could do a Porsche on a stretch, are making. Also, your audio and video production production quality is broadcast level.
Great review. As my first step back on the Porsche ladder after a long absence, the 718 T ticks all the boxes. I'll track it and tour it and have a 6 cylinder car to look forward to afterwards when a change is needed. The price IS punchy, but all the standard sporty chassis bits, the retro interior packs, fabric door pulls and a few extra alcantara bits make it like a poor man's GT4... in a good way. For a relatively poor man like me, anyway. For no good reason, I'm a bit more excited about getting a T than a standard car. Or even a basic S. Porsche sees guys like me coming. I know.
I think something the 4cyl 718s have as an advantage is slightly better street usability over the previous 981 generation. despite the deadness at lower rpms, max torque is more easily accessible even with the longer gears. My 981 is always begging to be driven above 50mph, which isnt always legally ideal. That said I would never trade usable torque for the sound of the NA flat 6.
The tall gearing in the 981 is a major bummer for me. It’s otherwise the perfect Boxster, IMO. I’ll take the N/A six over the turbo four every single time.
Well, as Jack notes, there are markets where the six would cost a fortune in taxes based on displacement. In the US this car doesn't make a lot of sense, except to people who are stretching to get any Porsche.
@@markmiller3279 If you want to get any Porsche the base model will do for 25k less. This thing is pretty special underneath. Its not for everybody. I would also prefer the 4.0.
@@mkkoper Where I live in Europe you would pay €7000 for registration on the flat six versions and another €2500 in yearly taxes. That while it's only €1000 registration and €500 yearly for the base engine variants. Starting price aside, the running costs put those versions in completely different price categories. You can more or less assume that €1=$1
I just was at Bilster Berg, it’s a small but good Racetrack in Germany, we drove a 981 GTS and a 4.0 GTS, it took a while before we caught the T, after my tires have been warm the T stayed all the time at the 4.0 backend. The T, in the almost same spec, is around 20.000€ cheaper than our 4.0 You have to experience it to appreciate it
In regards to fuel economy, I'm pretty sure Jason Cammisa had a great little video when the 718s got the flat fours. In real world testing, the Turbo 4 is much less economic compared to the outgoing NA 6, EPA-rated figures be damned!
Agreed. I picked up a 2018 Fiesta ST. It gets 2-3 miles per gallon less than my old 2009 Kia Optima with an NA 2.4 I4. Still, I don't mind as the FiST is a hell of a lot more fun to drive!
There's a rule called "Goodhart's law" that says "when a measure becomes a target it ceases to be good measure" and that is sort of what's going on with the downsized turbo motors, it's designed to do a good job at the EU fuel economy test without the regard for real world mpg.
I agree with Mark on this one, at least for the US use case. I do like the minimalist interior though. Mark, you could have argued the depreciation as well. If you can spend $80k, chances are you can afford another $20k for a GTS 4.0. The GTS 4.0 will depreciate less, and will be easier to sell later as well. So, as long as you can put the money down, cost of ownership on the GTS 4.0 will probably be less than the Boxter T. Only reason I would buy this over an Evora GT would be if I absolutely needed to have a drop top.
I believe GTS 4.0 will depreciate more. While it may be the model most want, the problem is that there are too many of them. T is a rare car and production numbers are in hundreds while with GTS 4.0 we are talking about several thousand cars produced. The time will tell but in terms of depreciation my bet is with T.
The main reason I got the 718 Boxster S (now 6 years old, but the exact same car is sold today) was, compared with the base 2.0, much more torque at a lower RPM (1700-up) and power anytime you want it. Disconnecting the sound symposer helped give the 4 a better sound in Sport mode - though as I understand all 718s now come with sport exhaust standard.
Agreed, 4 months owning a 2018 S and love it. Only had 13000kms, mint condition. Love the torque it has, like my stage 1 Golf R. Love the sound. Handling so good.
I’ve owned the 2021 cayman and Miata. The only difference is the power. But the Porsche is not worth the 40k increase in price. Did like the Porsche better.
Interesting comparison to the ND2 Miata. Personally I would have loved a 718 Porsche, but my budget won't stretch like that. So I "settled" for a 124 Spider, with a few handling mods. I think I haven't lost that much.
I like that it’s usable street power combined with crazy handling. I can take that amazing chassis and suspension engineering and milk every last drop out of it and shift crazy and lay into that power and just tear around back roads faster than anything else in its price range.
@@joseacuna3239 says who? Thats a very subjective opinion. If someone values handling and driving feel above raw power, there isn't a single other car on the market that can match or best it for the money. So by that metric it isn't too much money at all, if anything it's a bargain.
@@joseacuna3239 That's pure subjectiveness. Some dude making 140K can easily justify it. Shit we Jeep Wranglers on the top trim are over $60,000 now. $70,000-$80,000 for this isn't a lot when you compare the cost of cars today. It might be too much for YOU. But to someone else it's not. This is a car made for someone whose dream is to own a Porsche. For them it's everything they would want.
Other pro strat: buy a base 718 with its warranty intact for 50-60k and enjoy all the lightweight, brilliant handling while being closer in price to the Supra instead of the GTS. I left behind my GTI at the start of summer for the "poverty spec" 718 and my only complaint is that I didn't do it sooner.
I think they key point of this debate was in the last 2 minutes. ‘Allocation’. In the UK, it is essentially impossible to buy a Spyder or a GT4 new. I have offered crazy money to order a Spyder and there is no amount I can pay to get one new. My local Porsche dealer (which is one of the largest in the UK) gets an allocation of TWO of each, per YEAR! I have a T on order which, all in, will cost me under £60k (UK) with a handsome bundle of desirable extras. However, most importantly, I will get it in March and that (semi-conductor issue permitting) is more or less guaranteed. If however, I order a GTS, I’m now being quoted March 2023 at the very earliest. That’s a minimum year and half wait! Yes, given the choice, of course I would have the GTS but not for that wait and especially not for the hike in cost. Spyder/GT4’s on the second hand market are running at £15-20k over list for a 2 year old car over here. Even the T & GTS’s are selling over list if you can even find one as there are very few for sale. It’s a crazy world right now. There has never been a batter time to be trading in a used prestige car. Given that T is literally a GTS but with a smaller engine with 90% of the driving pleasure, a new T is looking like an absolute bargain right now. I’d pay $78k (US) for that. That is my humble opinion anyway! Great vid, thank you.
I currently have a 718 Cayman T, and I had the base model before (between leases). I had this whole debate in my head too, going for a GTS 4.0 was too much of a stretch for me and at that point I felt why don't I just get a base 911 (which has way better lease rates relative to MSRP vs 718 models). But then it didn't have a manual and was still more than I could afford, also not as precise or strictly engaging. I do like this 718 T a lot and agree with Jack's final thoughts. But I think for road use and little or no track time, the base model is best for the money (of the 718 lineup). I appreciate the tightening up of everything with the T vs base trim but you really don't need any of it for the road, you save like 10-15k, get a more comfortable daily driver in the process that's still got 90% of the T's engagement.
A nimble convertible to take to any dance topless. I like it as much as my R53 Minis. Great on long drives. Did 1,147 miles on I-40 in one day, comfortable, fun and fast. Impeded no one. I wish Porsche sold that car New in the US. You have to buy them second hand, never titled, from some car dealer. Porsche AG is nowhere to be found in this country. "No German conversations for You" said the Soup Guy.
My garage is a ND2 Miata Club MT with Brembo/BBS package and a 718 Cayman GTS 4.0 PDK. I previously owned a 981 Cayman S PDK. I agree with Mark that the ND2 does a lot of what the 718 4 cylinder does at a fraction of the cost. 718 base/T/S didn't make sense for me as it is too similar to the ND2 especially with MT. Coming from a 981 I knew I wanted the 6-cylinder 718. 4.0L in the 718 is an amazing engine. 718 GTS also comes with torque vectoring with mechanical limited slip, PASM, sports exhaust, sports chrono as standard. All these contribute to making the 718 GTS 4.0 a very different car from the ND2. Enough of a performance difference to me to justify having both. I say ND2 with MT is more fun to drive in most cases than 718 PDK. Never driven MT in a 718 so I can't give a direct comparison.
Great garage! I've driven both the 981 and 718 manual. Both have great shifters but kind of hard clutches. Not great for traffic but fun on a back road. The Miata's clutch and shifter are better tho. Light, slick, short throw, its better than Porsche's in my view. I think if companies wanted to really save manuals they would make their clutches and shifters like the Miata, so easy and slick to use that you can daily it fine and choosing it over an auto is no big deal.
Fantastic review guys. Agree with everything in principal but we all have our list of priorities. Having owned a naturally aspirated Boxster S (987) in the past and enjoyed it and a couple of Golf Rs for practicality since it was time to enjoy an open top sports car again. The choice boiled down to 2 completely different cars. A 718 or an ND MX5. Wanted something with lowish miles and not more than 3 - 4 years old since i began spending money on the 987 before I sold it. Just wanted to offer that apart from the obvious, other factors came into play. Both IMO are stunning looking cars. Loved the MX5 for looks, amazing value, the excellent simple but effective soft roof, the fun, the colours, esp soul red. Couldn't commit mainly because of the the very limited boot space (for touring Europe) and the unsupportive seats (Recaro option in UK only available on the 2016 Recaro edition and the bright orange 2019 Limited 30th Anniversary - a step too far!). Bought a 718T on the basis of sublime performance/handling, exquisite looks, extra boot practicality, super comfortable seats with Sportex (leather too cold in a soft top in winter and too hot in the summer, slippery when cornering and can sag when old) and I have to admit, the badge, but probably more importantly the engineering and the hope of a reasonable resale value 🤷🏼♂. So glad I made the choice. Utterly brilliant fun even without the 6 pot soundtrack.
“ reliable...unless you’re Nick Murray”. ROFLMAO. So true... Mark kept yammering about the price but your not buying a GTS 4.0 for 80k...end of discussion. Definitely 100k or more, if you want paint and other extras. GT4 and Spyder obviously even more. Porsches seem expensive until you start shopping and can’t find anything you like as much for the same money. Then your perspective changes pretty quickly. Jack was right on with the value proposition. Nothing twice the price is twice as good. Value is very nonlinear. Not uncommon to pay 50% more for something that is 10-20% better. That’s just how it works on almost everything. In the end, if you want it, you pay it. Never going the win the “ value” argument. Overall, nice, entertaining review.
Great points, a Spyder is likely $120k for most, GTS 4.0 $100k. This car, $80k. If you’re talking bare spec, you’re at $100k/$85k/$70k. I love the Boxster/Cayman T’s. Well worth it. Could also get a base car for $60k if saving $10 grand is your goal.
Nice review bruh, my 981 Spyder was $89.5K, and carfax has 15 for sale $99k- $112k. My sticker was $109k. Only less than 1,000 are available in the USA.
i’m with jack on this one. the level of engineering and driver’s enjoyablilty you can get out of this car cannot be beat for the price. obviously i still can’t afford anything close to this price lol
Today, this very day, iI enjoyed an extended dice with a well- driven air-cooled 911 on legendary Hwy 9, south of San Fran toward Santa Cruz. It was a really fun touch-and-go contest, with my ND2 MX-5 crawling up his butt in the twisties, and his flat six reeling me in on the straights, Nobody got stupid, everybody had fun. As we parted ways, we sensed our kinship: each of us doing our best to live up to the passion of the engineers who devoted their careers to building these amazing cars.
Great review and debate. My girlfriend and I bought a base 2017 718 Boxster on CPO , fairly loaded launch edition car with low miles, for $50k. We love the luggage space for road trips around western NC and north GA. It makes us smile every time we drive it, and it has all the performance we need. I previously had a 987.2 Cayman and yes the flat 6 sound is missing but we like the character of the turbo 4. At $50k we feel it was more than worth it. But the price of a new one is just too much, and I think the value proposition is not there even for rich people to buy or lease them new. Hence the small number you can usually find available as CPO at any given time. If I spec a base Boxster out today like my 2017, it is $76k. If I could spend 76, then I would mow some yards or sell some plasma and step up to a GTS 4.0.
Thoroughly enjoyed Mark and Jack's debate. My friends and I rented a base 718 and drove it in the Twisted Sisters along with a ND1 Club. All three of us preferred the ND to the 718 from a driving perspective. I'd be keen to see if the 718 Boxster T could change my perspective on the 718.
Great review. To me the biggest argument in favor of this over the 4.0 is that it has all the chassis/steering/handling goodness of the 718 platform with the smallest/weakest engine, so that you can actually row through the gears and rev it without going to jail after about mid-way through 2nd gear...
Exactly why I ordered it instead of getting a GTS. Yeah, would love the 4.0 but it’s not faster until you go illegal speeds and that’s not my goal on the street
The question of whether or not the experience is 2-3x better is a silly one. The better question is whether or not it’s worth a $40k delta for the 15-20% bump in dynamics that gets you near perfection, along with a performance floor that’s higher than a less expensive vehicle’s ceiling.
@@joseacuna3239 if you can really, comfortably afford the extra $20K, then you should probably go 4.0; I love the T, but I think anyone arguing that it's the best regardless of price is simply disingenuous.
@@naxT890 as great as Lotus is, the interior of a Lotus is so bare bones. It’s not something you would enjoy driving all day. The comfort of the Porsche Boxster is a major reason as why people get them.
Great video and great car. The biggest competition for a $78k Boxster are used Porsches. I got my low mileage 2017 Porsche 911 with a manual transmission for $75k. The Boxster/Caymans will be good buys on the used market once prices come down to normal. Definitely one of the best $60-65k driving experiences. Having reviewed both would I take this or the C8 Corvette? I would take this because I can get it with a manual transmission.
They are for people who want a reliable, fun daily driver. Something people who haven't owned a Porsche don't understand is how reliable they are, especially in their simplest form such as a single turbo 4-cylinder with a manual. I've always loved 4-cylinder Porsches, having owned a 924 and a 944. They aren't for a petrolhead. I actually agree with the Miata reference (I also owned a 94 NA) but the Porsche is infinitely more practical with actual storage and safety. Of course the Porsche is more expensive but it's equally reliable, fun and efficient. The icing on the cake is IF you like working on your own car, these are a cakewalk. I replaced the clutch in my 944 in my driveway in a day, no different than my Mustang at the time. The most difficult issue to diagnose on the older Porsches were electrical gremlins, but as an Electrical Engineer that didn't pose a huge challenge, and electrical issues outside of bunk sensors are rare on new VAG products. Overall the only, ONLY problem with the Boxter S, is the price. It's worth 70K to me, and if I were looking for this kind of car it would be at the top of my list, but most people aren't looking for this kind of car because they don't even know it exists.
@@johnyacoub69 I know the power stats of the old engine. My question was hypothetical. "Would you feel the same way IF......". The point I was making is many feel any 4 banger is inferior to a 6 no matter the engineering, etc. If Porsche modified 2.7 6 (perhaps a small turbo) to produce the same power and torque as the 2.0 four, I believe there would not be the same resistance to the cost of the 718.
I'm with Mark on this. For fun engaging daily driving, despite how much "better" the 718 is, I'll take the Miata and pocket the savings and maybe do a few upgrades and still have a sizeable amount of $ pocketed.Considering vast majority of drivers won't or can even drive up to 1/2 the 718's capabilities, buying it is more a financial flex than buying it cause it's a better fun car than the Miata.
The other thing is... when I went and sat in a new ND I thought it was really nice for 30k. When you get into a Boxster T you think jeez this is all you get for 80k?
This car is meant for me. I love lightweight, mid engined balance, engaging driving experience cars but I'm with Mark on this. What car does Porsche sell right now that is actually affordable for us younger Porsche enthusiasts who can't step up to $90-$100k cars yet? Wasn't that the point of the boxster and cayman? 80 grand for an enthusiast specific car that should be 65 is just crazy talk. I don't understand who they think is actually going to buy these when the ideal owner can't afford or justify the cost... Not to mention the giant middle finger on T and GTS cars making you pay extra to get the T or the GTS interior package... Who thought that was a good idea? As a Porsche enthusiast the current lower end offerings are very hard to justify/defend.
I live in the country and most twisty windy roads have a speed limit of 35 max. I owned a toyota 86 and now a kia stinger 3.3T and the v6 is absurd power on these roads. Floor it in 2nd, brake into the corner, do it again. Barely any shifting required and lots of braking. The 86 gave me more engagement and I can now appreciate that my 'ideal' car is likely a 4 cylinder. This ticks all the right boxes for my specific use case. The price does hurt massively but if I can afford it one day, I would buy it.
13:28 A 2022 ZL1 1LE is $73,395 and it would shit on this pos like it wasn't even there. On track, off track, at a meet, for enjoyment, reliability, etc. You name it, even the stock ZL1 would eat this little thing alive, let alone the 1LE. Hell a 2SS 1LE would destory this thing ($52,290).
Bought a 981 Boxster GTS a month ago, for $70K. My forever fun car. 3.4 L boxer 6 with 325 claimed HP, manual transmission. Gets the same gas mileage as this, even looks the same on the inside except the outdated radio/nav, the leather on interior the last owner optioned, and a stalk instead of a dial to access the display in the instrument cluster. GTS also comes standard with the glorious sounding sport exhaust and the dynamic suspension 10mm lower than the standard suspension. I can imagine how hard it is for Porsche to compete with their own lineup from a few years ago.
I would take the 80K and try to get a second hand Boxster S w/ 6 speed and 6 cyl, and probably still have some money left over. It's not as "special" as the T but 6 > 4
Love the back and forth discussion !! The more people express their opinion on something the closer you get to the truth...it's called *brainstorming* I kinda agreed with Mark here...even if I had the 80k $...that interior screams 20-30k $ used car from 2009 Not worth it...no matter how good it drives.
I think the cabin looks better in any color outside of black imo. Even shitty beige. The shapes in their just look ass and kinda cheap with black but the other colors really bring out the shapes and the metal touches.
Jack has really come into his own. Really speaks to Mark's ability to integrate Jack- you guys have a great program here!
Yes he has. Do you like his final thoughts better?
They are lovers and have great communication skills with each other.
Some nights I spank it to my Porsche. Other nights I spank to Mark and Jack.
@@PianoBlackTrimRep. Nah, they bicker like me and my bruh.
Never stop bringing cost as a factor into these reviews. You guys are great, thanks
Jumbo shrimp
Jumbo shrimp 🦐
Maybe buy a miata if you can't afford a Porsche.
@@seamusmcfitz913 jumbo shrinp
@@chrish9502 you win.
Man I loved when Jack and Mark were arguing.. Sounded like a married couple. So funny. Great vid and love the content. Thx guys
The dynamic between Jack and Mark are a gem of this channel. It really gives an authentic view into their personalities and views.
@@panzer_TZ I completely agree.
I thought they were married
@@povertyspec9651 hahahaha
It sounds too authentic (the arguing). I genuinely don’t think they like each other. It’s awkward, just like watching a married couple argue that you aren’t sure will stay married. Facial expressions and body language tell all.
It's my 30th birthday. I now have come to realize that my days are numbered as I sit on the porcelain throne. But by God does this notification for a new Savagegeese video make it all the more better
work out, get in stupid good shape, do whatever you wana do, cuz we never know when we'll be rotting in a box... it can literally happen anytime, heart attack, cancers, etc. its all up to God
Don't say that - I'm 36!
Early-onset mortality awareness. Happens to the best of us.
Edit: and yes, happy birthday too. 🎂 🚘
Assuming this is all a simulation, that I was able to choose the point in time I began, and knowing myself now… Get your 718 now, ‘cause we’re going to see the end.
At 42, I feel the same way whenever that notification pops up. It's the little things. 😅
I love when mark is devil's advocate even when it means ignoring his own beliefs and feelings😂
Yeah you could tell he was struggling with his words. He enjoyed the car a lot.
Would you buy one?
15:48 😂
Mark and Jack have better communication skills than many married couples.
That's because they're both men, lol.
@@mixwellusa My wife and I communicate well, but you have a good point.
Whenever I get on YT and see a new savagegeese video, I don't get any work done. This is the best channel. I'm pretty sure other car review channels just regurgitate what these guys say.
It's like that with videogames, movies, and musical stuff too, I noticed. There's a brief that goes into circulation to all the mainstream outlets, who then crib or otherwise borrow their "review" wholesale once an advertising check clears. I notice marketing speak and the same descriptors being used all the time. These "reviews" are generally written before the product is released the same way press releases get reposted with a few extra sentences spliced in by a copy editor with the journalist having minimal input.
@@12ealDealOfficial all I know is if I hear 1 more person say "The S2000 had the most hp per liter, before the Fer..." I swear to God, I'm going to drive my S2000 into a bus full of kids.
@@wrxtim09 hilarious.
The Alfa 4C is north of $70k, so relatively the 718T is a screaming bargain. 300ps, clutch pedal, legit 170mph top speed; you’re getting a lot.
And just look at it. It’s beautiful!
Can we all just take a moment to appreciate how insanely skilled Savagegeese is at making his reviews.
That was some NEXT LEVEL shit mate!
This as to be one of the best argumentation I've seen on youtube. This channel is so underrated still... it's crazy.
Good to see you back on the public road. The reviews at the track don’t do it for me.
The GLA is the only car appropriate for the track.
That LC500 ain't gonna pay for itself
@@ervin7178 fax
This is what I love about these guys. I'm not here for Porsche, I'm here for the debate!
Yep! The cars are just the canvas for another great Savageese experience. Their honesty about how a product compares vs the broad market and not just the new car market is very refreshing and informative.
Excellent video, you guys are great! As an owner of the Boxster T, I can say that if anybody is debating whether to pull the trigger or not, to go ahead, they will not regret it.
Have owned it since April, have put over 6K miles on it and have not regretted the purchase. Absolutely love the car and have been enjoying everything about it.
You have convinced me! I’m glad you love your car!
Everyone on the Porsche Forum had nothing but great things to say about it.
I appreciate when y’all get Hans Zimmer to score one of your vids.
I’m with Jack. The older cabin is better. The new ones are plastered with screens and glass black.
How old are you?
I have a 2018 GTS I bought CPO this year. I really like the interior. Wish the full leather was standard though. Compared to the Supra (which I was also looking at) I much preferred this.
Give me real physical gages or give me death!
This! 100 percent this and the 991 one is peak porsche interior design. Apple carplay and a decent screen but still physical gauges and real buttons.
I'm on the other side. I want a more special interior for that price. Better to save up more money or get a cheaper car that delivers most of the enjoyment.
Here to watch a video about a car I cant afford...
That E-4 pay just don’t cut it. But that’s where mustangs and challengers come in 😬
NICE!
Yah but in 10 years you'll be able to afford one with deferred maintenance. Then you will transition into not being able to afford the maintenance.
I watch these and enjoy them.. Bought a used ND Miata and have been completely satisfied; no urges to upgrade.
Bro we are the same
I just picked up a T! Its a beautiful car. I traded my 2022 s3 for it and while the tech was a downgrade, the driving feel cant wipe a smile off my face.
The power is great. I can kick the rear end out whenever i want, and from 2-6k rpm this thin is legendary. Its the perfect daily driver because it can be tame. If you want a track car, get a gts
#saveTheManuals
Mark is right. There's a niche for everything, but that doesn't justify a bad value for most people.
Sales figures for these turkeys show that nobody wants to pay like this for a 4 banger, so I think at some point Porsche will stop making them.
Yeah and good point. Would you buy this car?
@@WarriorsPhoto To get Porsche's best suspension and transmission in the lightest car they sell for only $9k above base price. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the only other way to get that setup is to spend $20k over base for the GTS 4.0. Edit: $20k
@@doctorsmoothy I don’t know 🤷♂️ is what I will admit. Let’s look it up together.
@@doctorsmoothy But if the engine is a bit shit, what's the point?
I currently own a pretty decently specked 718 base (after owning a 981). I recently had the chance to try out a GTS 4.0. Putting the sentimental part of the 6-cylinder howl aside, I came to the conclusion that I am actually really liking the 2.0 base as a package.
The GTS would have been around 35.000 $ more compared to what I purchased the base 2.0 for. That is a substantial amount of money. Add to that taxes which are 3x of what I pay for my 2.0, an issuance which would cost me 30% more, higher maintenance costs and the fact that I average 32.7 mpg including using my car as a daily commuter and blasting up and down mountain passes in my free time.
As an enthusiast and someone who could afford the GTS 4.0: Yes, the sound is awesome, revving it out is lots of fun and the responsiveness of the engine is amazing. But does it make up for the flawed gear ratios? For the fact that I can barely rev out 2nd gear without loosing my license? For all the extra costs that come attached to it?
In my opinion: No
The 4-cylinder engines have been talked down upon a lot, but I quite like what this car represents and it’s character. Light, nimble, fun.
Hi,
thanks for yr opinion.
As you, I currently own C981 and thinking to change to 718C T.
I share the idea that the 4.0 would be great, but very expensive (fuel & taxes in Europa)
Only doubt I have is the engine sound: will I miss the 981 for that reason ?
Pls advise.
Rgs & see my channel
"For the fact that I can barely rev out 2nd gear without loosing my license? " - very well put. I feel the same way especially on my little back roads.
You could have just stuck with the 981 and saved a lot more money.
@@PointNemo9 Don’t get me wrong, the 981 was lovely and I still remember that flat 6 note fondly. However it was a pretty basic spec, like for example no xenon headlights, no cruise control etc. The 718, especially since I daily it, is a far more capable and complete car. The very accessible power is a nice plus as well. Thanks to the pandemic I was able to sell my 981 for a handsome profit and that made getting the 718 a no-brainer.
@dss3113 Surely you could have gotten a much better specced 981 instead
Ferdinand Porsche, if he were alive, I think would choose this one. Philosophically, it is a true incarnation of the 356A that I had.
there were indeed quite some 4 Cyl that Porsche produced : 356, 550, 914, 944, 924...
"I would choose this over a C8." "So would I". lol - love the channel, you guys. I just don't know how they can sell this over a 718 S or a GTS.
People buy with their hearts as much as the numbers, or more than the numbers.
@@AlvinBrinson thats true. The cars I currently want most couldn’t be described as the top performers in their field
I would definitely get a GTS over a C8. But I don't think I could get over that 4 cylinder on the 718 S. It sounds so much worse and makes so much less power than the V8 in the C8.
@@Sinoops maybe thats the main problem of the 718. All the money is in its chasis suspension and transmission, but its normal for people to think of the engine has the main money sump, the heart of the car
Well here in Europe there is a significant price difference,about 15 000 euros. Also in some markets it is much more expensive to register a 4.0.
And many people would prefer a nicely speced T over S,they value esthetics and details more than 50 bhp. Understandable in my opinion,718 isnt exactly a straightline monster,its more about corners and finesse, so i can see that someone enjoys T more than base S,after all 300bhp is plenty for real world road use.
Man I love these guys. 2 well spoken gentlemen with good arguments. My brain rejoices listening to these guys talk cars. Love it
That interior is so refreshing after seeing all the crap being peddled these days by most car makers.
Yup, love my 95B.2 GTS...the absolute sweet spot of Porsche interiors.
Obviously Porsche makes good cars, It's just hella expensive.
Y'all are the true heirs to Car Talk. Thanks for doing what you do.
I love that you reviewed a 4 cylinder 718!! Been waiting a long time for this. Also love you guys dropping bombs on Nick Murray ahhaha
I was considering the T this past spring but ended up finding an allocation and optioned the base with the Sport Chrono, Torque Vectoring and PASM. The only other options I added was Lane Change Assist and GT Silver. With a slight dealer discount it was just under $70k. I waited 20 years for this and wanted a driver's car and optioning the car this way saved about $10k and I got a driver's car that is everything the T is save the ridiculously expensive wheels and another 10MM lowered. I've put 2,500 miles on the car this summer almost all with the top down and it is total blast and IMO a great value (for a new Porsche) if optioned this way. Having researched this extensively, the T is not the sweet spot, the base is as outlined above or if I wanted to drop $30k more, the GTS with the 4.0L six cylinder.
If you don’t want a big, honking engine but want the limited-slip, the T is the way to go.
Agreed - base Porsches always represent the best value to me as they have 90% of the driving experience of the higher models at much lower cost. For example, I ordered a new 2013 981 Boxster when they came out with just a few options and I think it was the best 50k you could spend on a car -- it was more than fast enough and I had to reign myself in constantly. A few years later I enjoyed a base 997 C2 -- didn't miss the "S" at all. I will say that I prefer the S in the 986 & 987 but the base ones are great too. For the newer models however (981/991 and newer) - the base are more than enough power/performance for street driving and probably more enjoyable as they can be revved out more.
Final counterpoint -- the 981 GT4 was one of the best cars I've ever driven by far!
Regarding pricing debate about "for 80k, might as well get a 911 or GTS 4.0", there's still a massive difference in the prices between the boxster/S/T and the 4.0s and 911s. It's sometimes double that price for a solid 911 in a comparable generation. IMO this car still exists as a lesser-priced version of a Porsche platform priced so much higher, and occupies a solid place in the market, especially in more economically inflated regions.
Way better to just get a 981 at that point. Handling is just about as good, just about as fast or even faster with an ECU tune, it will depreciate far less, and you get the 6 cylinder.
@@maynardewm Correct. Just pay the extra 15,000 to get the 718 GTS or, if you cant afford that, get a flat six 981. No point in getting a 4-popper for $78,000.
My GTS 4.0 order came in 1k more than the dealer S they had sitting in the showroom floor.
When I was younger, the numerical advantage was important, but now its not. I'd rather have the older 6 Cyl than a new 4 Cyl. Almost pulled the trigger on a 1st gen Cayman S a few times, but its hard to justify because there's not many tracks or mountain roads within a few hours of where i live.... 99% of mileage would be commuting on boring roads.
Treat yo self
Just bought a 987.1 and it is awesome even on boring roads. I also prefer the first gen Cayman styling over the 911.
@@jeffreysalzman1497 Bought a 987.2 in March, it's great on any road and fantastic on twisties! looks SOOO much better than a 911 and the NA 6 sounds wonderful, love it.
You can have a blast in a porsche anywhere
Nice. I had looked at a couple 911's (993 and 996's) and for the price and what I want the Cayman/Boxter check off more boxes. I don't want a ton of electronics, i want an analog experience.
Really enjoy this back and forth disagreements. It shows cars carry so many different views and we get to see some of them.
Excellent channel. Great relationship between Mark and Jack which makes this such a good channel to watch.
Too much money for not enough fun. I'm with Mark on this.
Why not a used car at that point? I'd rather have a used 911 than a brand new boxster t
For approximately $10k less you can get a base Boxster with 97% of the driving potential and 100% of the driving enjoyment. Get one a year or two old (if you can find one) and save even more.
Porsche buyers are not price sensitive. If they were, they'd be shopping other brands.
@@Tential1 - a clean low mileage Used Porsche Boxster is probably the best choice for budget
@@markmiller3279 LOL, bullshit, sub 200,000k everyone is price sensitive. If you weren't price sensitive and you wanted a decent mid engined sports car, you'd get a McLaren or a Ferrari or something. The fact that these things aren't selling proves that nobody wants these 4 cylinder over priced VAG bean counter designed shitboxes. Even in this price bracket, there are far, far better options. They even talk about this very thing in the video.
After watching this channel for years, I must say this is one of the best videos from the channel. Excellent work guys. Really enjoyed the discussion since it represents the ongoing back and forth we all tend to have as enthusiasts when it comes to packaging, pricing, and performance.
I'm with Jack on the interior - it's simple and dated in a good way and thus is relatively future proof. I'm very very tempted to buy a 718 Spyder because of the fact that it is the perfect blend of 90's and early 2000's car design and 2020 refinement and engineering
I mostly like it, but the rows of identical buttons were a bad idea, even if they are physical. They haven't given this thing a major redo in way too long, and it's starting to be obvious.
I bought one this year because I was afraid they would modernize the interior :) I'm not a fan of the new Porsche interiors. Look cheap when the power is off and always loaded with finger prints
Epic freaking intro. The editing, music, everything. Well done!
I owned two MX-5s and loved them, but they were a tiny bit too small, and as I'm getting older with a bit more disposable income, Porsche is extremely attractive. Can't really get a mid-engine, RWD sports car that's not an exotic, and the Corvette is too big/ostentatious/heavy. And the whole "just get a GTS or 911" is kind of silly. The GTS is almost $30K more (that's not nothing), and the 911 similarly equipped is WELL over $50,000 more.
As a guy that currently owns several Porsches and loved and owned a Miata, I agree with Jack on this. His take is right on. I loved my Miata and plan to buy another soon. But if you can afford it there is nothing like Porsche.
The production quality of this video is amazing! Gets better and better with every new video.
I love the Interstellar vibe of the cornfield B roll at the start of the drive segment. Car commercial grade. Savage Geese is the one channel where I always remember to max out playback quality at the start of every vid (now that that’s a f***ing thing).
Definitely interstellar vibes
Agree, they do a great job....and especially of making that road look majestic because I frequently drive the same road and it’s actually a shitty road littered with gravel, dirt and stones in all the corners
@@jameswillard1 I’ve thought for a couple years that all SavageGeese is missing is a better backdrop for their vids. I’ve gone as far as to contemplate how much better the scenery would be in every review if they were to do a hostile takeover of TFL’s turf in Denver. Thankfully, SavageGeese seem to have better and better access to that racetrack which is 10/10 more visually appealing than the cornfield access roads or whatever their called. Lol
Love the discussion. Basically you guys preemptively addressed the points of many viewers but kept it civil and interesting. Keep it up!
"It's not really Porsche's fault." I think that's accurate.
It is actually a bit VW group fault. Dieselgate unleashed hell on all of the industry and no one acted or lobby against. VW as a main cause BUT also as a most powerfull force should have been more active in stopping the overregulation. Car market is dead for a normal man. I am happy with my Evora and F Lexus but I am with the main street enthusiast in my heart, I am sad... For todays $ I am not going the Porsche way ever as much as I agree that there is no substitute for a Porsche GT or enthusiast oriented product.
@@ghostridertom yes, I did not think of it that way. These vehicles are too expensive for me for what they are and how I would actually use it.
I am probably better off with Mark's approach of getting a Lexus of some kind. I would probably get something in the RC designation vs the LC as I have dropped far too much money on beef and cheddars over the years 😅
@@aaronelmquist8607 Get slightly used RC F and enjoy it for a decade to come. You can get it for a really nice price and it is a real "F" so all the goodies of a super GT but track capable car (a bit heavy but fun). I am going after final RC F 2022 as it ends here in Europe and it goes out with a blaze of glory (Fuji Edition but not called so in Europe but it is the same specs and colours and so on). Expensive but for me legendary and I am fortunate enough to be able to pay half now and the rest I can finance with ok conditions.
In 2013, I bought a CPO 991 911S (10,000 miles) for $92K (MSRP was $128K). My 911 has over 80,000 miles on it today and I may never sell it. This review explains both why I purchased that car and why I purchased the way I did. Nice review that encapsulates the whole Porsche debate that is reflected in the review and in the comments. As a note for the folks watching this video...consider a 991...it's a better car than the Boxster.
Getns! Long time subscriber, big fan. Some of the best automotive content around. March of 2021 I was in this exact market, this exact price range. And I bought…. *drumroll*… the G29 BMW Z4 M40i. Because I, like the vast majority of shoppers here, am never going to track this car. What I wanted was a top down driving experience that delivers thrills when I want them. Which is largely getting to 62 (100km/h) as fast as possible on country roads, feeling that rush early in the rev range, etc etc. It also corners as well as anyone could want for an on-road experience, and with the excellent e-diff, let’s the rear end break loose just enough for fun. I’m an enthusiast, who fully understands that these cars aren’t going to see a track. If I’m going to at track, I’m buying a used Miata, and kitting it out properly. Just my real world $.02
Following on… this was the top of my budget range. Would not have made the stretch to the $106 equivalent.
Great review! I had the pleasure of putting 500 miles on a 718 Boxter T over the weekend and was amazed at the build quality. It had 30,000 rental miles on it and was perfectly quiet with no squeaks or rattles! My next sports car will no doubt be a 718 GTS or Spyder
I’ve only recently began watching this channel, and it has become my go to for car content. Absolutely love the format of the videos and both perspectives.
I’ve been lukewarm on the 4 cyl 718’s until the T. I’d still dearly love the 4.0, but I honestly think the T would be just as satisfying to own for me. They may have made some refinements to the noise since launch, since I think it sounds excellent (albeit not a patch on the old cars).
It’s not cheap, but you can skip a lot of the pricy cosmetic options and it’s far cheaper than the GTS in the real world. Arguments about “what’s another 20k once you’re spending 80” just don’t land… it’s still a huge amount more.
Exactly; for some people, they'll be stretching their finances to buy, so another 20K is going to be out of the question; it's not a "toy" purchase for every buyer; it wouldn't be, for me either.
I have a T Cayman 6MT on order. Lucky to get the one allocation dealer had available, 4 months wait. Could have picked up a GTS 4.0 from showroom (guy ordered and then backed out). Price difference, $30k and that’s before taxes, insurance, etc. but what really made me choose the T is the combination of rare/unique (maybe 300 in total in US when all said and done) and more I saw on the 4.0 manual more I realized that I could not really explore the power-band on regular roads beyond 2nd gear (and even that is way too long and fast. So, since I want to have fun daily driving a manual, the T is great. Expensive, yes, but over 5 or so years not crazy and I will be able to use four gears getting on the highway instead of 2.
@@zdenekk.8564 Fully agreed on your thinking and congrats! I feel like glorious as the GTS is, the gearing would render it a constant frustration as you say. You’ll get a lot more joy out of the T (and with the rarity factor, you probably won’t pay much for it).
Friggen love the conversation that comes from you guys when you disagree. Awesome job Jack and Mark keep up the awesome work!!
It's a really good bit expensive option in a class of vehicles that I have no interest in but its Savagegeese so I have to watch! 🔥 🔥 🔥
What an amazing review of this car. Thank you Jack for not shying away from making fact-based good arguments against price. In my opinion, the price is totally justified. Nobody in the world delivers such a car for less, do they? The refinement, the engineering, the driving experience, the reliability, the way this car holds it's value, the exotic looks, the prestige of owning this brand - I am nothing but totally convinced this is a great and top of the line product that one could get for their money. People asked for a great car, and Porsche delivered. They can't sell something for 50k that should be 80k, as Mark wants it. That would be saying why Ferraris or Lambos are close to 300-400k, they should be 100ks. No, good products/things come at a price, and this is a totally fair price. Cheap products don't necessarily mean value products and expensive products don't necessarily mean lack of value, I wish every body understood that. While there are cheaper cars like Mazda Miata ND2 and Toyota Supra, they don't nearly have the same goods to offer as this car. If you don't believe me, go ahead and try to rate these cars unbiased on the areas of this Boxster T I've mentioned above. I am sure you will see other cars don't even give this Boxster T a run for it's money. No wonder why Mark agrees to pick this one up instead of a soulful V8 motor car, Corvette C8. If a meat lover chooses to grab a vegetarian meal, you know the vegetarian meal must be wickedly good!
An amazing, and honest review. You two nailed the exact decision tree all of us who can easily afford a Miata, but could do a Porsche on a stretch, are making.
Also, your audio and video production production quality is broadcast level.
Great review. As my first step back on the Porsche ladder after a long absence, the 718 T ticks all the boxes. I'll track it and tour it and have a 6 cylinder car to look forward to afterwards when a change is needed. The price IS punchy, but all the standard sporty chassis bits, the retro interior packs, fabric door pulls and a few extra alcantara bits make it like a poor man's GT4... in a good way. For a relatively poor man like me, anyway. For no good reason, I'm a bit more excited about getting a T than a standard car. Or even a basic S. Porsche sees guys like me coming. I know.
The editing and shot selection is awesome
I think something the 4cyl 718s have as an advantage is slightly better street usability over the previous 981 generation. despite the deadness at lower rpms, max torque is more easily accessible even with the longer gears. My 981 is always begging to be driven above 50mph, which isnt always legally ideal. That said I would never trade usable torque for the sound of the NA flat 6.
The tall gearing in the 981 is a major bummer for me. It’s otherwise the perfect Boxster, IMO. I’ll take the N/A six over the turbo four every single time.
When it comes to this platform it's gts 4.0 or bust for me. All the other trims, don't have something that screams special for me at around 80 to 100k
Same for me. 718 should only come with B6 4.0. For me the lower trim means Mazda MX-5
Glad I’m not the only one who busts for the 4.0
Well, as Jack notes, there are markets where the six would cost a fortune in taxes based on displacement. In the US this car doesn't make a lot of sense, except to people who are stretching to get any Porsche.
@@markmiller3279 If you want to get any Porsche the base model will do for 25k less.
This thing is pretty special underneath. Its not for everybody.
I would also prefer the 4.0.
@@mkkoper Where I live in Europe you would pay €7000 for registration on the flat six versions and another €2500 in yearly taxes. That while it's only €1000 registration and €500 yearly for the base engine variants. Starting price aside, the running costs put those versions in completely different price categories.
You can more or less assume that €1=$1
What the T needed here was a N/A 3 liter 6. Something you could push hard all the time with the great T bits and bobs, and the classic sound.
1:50 I understand what you are saying and agree with the sentiment, the 1990 Bonniville SSEi disagrees.
I just was at Bilster Berg, it’s a small but good Racetrack in Germany, we drove a 981 GTS and a 4.0 GTS, it took a while before we caught the T, after my tires have been warm the T stayed all the time at the 4.0 backend. The T, in the almost same spec, is around 20.000€ cheaper than our 4.0
You have to experience it to appreciate it
In regards to fuel economy, I'm pretty sure Jason Cammisa had a great little video when the 718s got the flat fours. In real world testing, the Turbo 4 is much less economic compared to the outgoing NA 6, EPA-rated figures be damned!
agreed. every tubo car ive had sucked fuel economy wise anywhere but the free way. if you just drive around town forget it , get an na 6 or even a v8.
Agreed. I picked up a 2018 Fiesta ST. It gets 2-3 miles per gallon less than my old 2009 Kia Optima with an NA 2.4 I4. Still, I don't mind as the FiST is a hell of a lot more fun to drive!
There's a rule called "Goodhart's law" that says "when a measure becomes a target it ceases to be good measure" and that is sort of what's going on with the downsized turbo motors, it's designed to do a good job at the EU fuel economy test without the regard for real world mpg.
I've had a 2.0 for four years now. It's in the low 20's when I'm flogging it and 31 - 32 when cruising down the highway.
The base cayman 718 is a also a remarkable vehicle.
I agree with Mark on this one, at least for the US use case. I do like the minimalist interior though. Mark, you could have argued the depreciation as well. If you can spend $80k, chances are you can afford another $20k for a GTS 4.0. The GTS 4.0 will depreciate less, and will be easier to sell later as well. So, as long as you can put the money down, cost of ownership on the GTS 4.0 will probably be less than the Boxter T. Only reason I would buy this over an Evora GT would be if I absolutely needed to have a drop top.
Emira could be a good rival here too
I believe GTS 4.0 will depreciate more. While it may be the model most want, the problem is that there are too many of them. T is a rare car and production numbers are in hundreds while with GTS 4.0 we are talking about several thousand cars produced. The time will tell but in terms of depreciation my bet is with T.
I'm picking up a 986 Boxster this week and I'm so excited.
The main reason I got the 718 Boxster S (now 6 years old, but the exact same car is sold today) was, compared with the base 2.0, much more torque at a lower RPM (1700-up) and power anytime you want it. Disconnecting the sound symposer helped give the 4 a better sound in Sport mode - though as I understand all 718s now come with sport exhaust standard.
Agreed, 4 months owning a 2018 S and love it. Only had 13000kms, mint condition.
Love the torque it has, like my stage 1 Golf R. Love the sound. Handling so good.
I’ve owned the 2021 cayman and Miata. The only difference is the power. But the Porsche is not worth the 40k increase in price. Did like the Porsche better.
Interesting comparison to the ND2 Miata. Personally I would have loved a 718 Porsche, but my budget won't stretch like that. So I "settled" for a 124 Spider, with a few handling mods. I think I haven't lost that much.
I like that it’s usable street power combined with crazy handling. I can take that amazing chassis and suspension engineering and milk every last drop out of it and shift crazy and lay into that power and just tear around back roads faster than anything else in its price range.
It’s too much money for a back road car
@@joseacuna3239 says who? Thats a very subjective opinion. If someone values handling and driving feel above raw power, there isn't a single other car on the market that can match or best it for the money. So by that metric it isn't too much money at all, if anything it's a bargain.
@@joseacuna3239 Thats why I drive my T as a daily ;)
@@joseacuna3239 That's pure subjectiveness. Some dude making 140K can easily justify it. Shit we Jeep Wranglers on the top trim are over $60,000 now.
$70,000-$80,000 for this isn't a lot when you compare the cost of cars today.
It might be too much for YOU. But to someone else it's not.
This is a car made for someone whose dream is to own a Porsche. For them it's everything they would want.
Other pro strat: buy a base 718 with its warranty intact for 50-60k and enjoy all the lightweight, brilliant handling while being closer in price to the Supra instead of the GTS. I left behind my GTI at the start of summer for the "poverty spec" 718 and my only complaint is that I didn't do it sooner.
I wish people would kill that term. I know what you're saying, but there's no poverty associated with any Porsche.
I think they key point of this debate was in the last 2 minutes. ‘Allocation’. In the UK, it is essentially impossible to buy a Spyder or a GT4 new. I have offered crazy money to order a Spyder and there is no amount I can pay to get one new. My local Porsche dealer (which is one of the largest in the UK) gets an allocation of TWO of each, per YEAR! I have a T on order which, all in, will cost me under £60k (UK) with a handsome bundle of desirable extras. However, most importantly, I will get it in March and that (semi-conductor issue permitting) is more or less guaranteed. If however, I order a GTS, I’m now being quoted March 2023 at the very earliest. That’s a minimum year and half wait! Yes, given the choice, of course I would have the GTS but not for that wait and especially not for the hike in cost. Spyder/GT4’s on the second hand market are running at £15-20k over list for a 2 year old car over here. Even the T & GTS’s are selling over list if you can even find one as there are very few for sale. It’s a crazy world right now. There has never been a batter time to be trading in a used prestige car. Given that T is literally a GTS but with a smaller engine with 90% of the driving pleasure, a new T is looking like an absolute bargain right now. I’d pay $78k (US) for that. That is my humble opinion anyway!
Great vid, thank you.
I currently have a 718 Cayman T, and I had the base model before (between leases). I had this whole debate in my head too, going for a GTS 4.0 was too much of a stretch for me and at that point I felt why don't I just get a base 911 (which has way better lease rates relative to MSRP vs 718 models). But then it didn't have a manual and was still more than I could afford, also not as precise or strictly engaging.
I do like this 718 T a lot and agree with Jack's final thoughts. But I think for road use and little or no track time, the base model is best for the money (of the 718 lineup).
I appreciate the tightening up of everything with the T vs base trim but you really don't need any of it for the road, you save like 10-15k, get a more comfortable daily driver in the process that's still got 90% of the T's engagement.
A nimble convertible to take to any dance topless. I like it as much as my R53 Minis. Great on long drives. Did 1,147 miles on I-40 in one day, comfortable, fun and fast. Impeded no one. I wish Porsche sold that car New in the US. You have to buy them second hand, never titled, from some car dealer. Porsche AG is nowhere to be found in this country. "No German conversations for You" said the Soup Guy.
For that price, I would rather buy the new Lexus IS500 with the naturally aspirated 5.0 Liter V8, IF I COULD AFFORD IT!
Great to see how honest these guys were. And not sour that they weren't acknowledged by each other.
My garage is a ND2 Miata Club MT with Brembo/BBS package and a 718 Cayman GTS 4.0 PDK. I previously owned a 981 Cayman S PDK.
I agree with Mark that the ND2 does a lot of what the 718 4 cylinder does at a fraction of the cost. 718 base/T/S didn't make sense for me as it is too similar to the ND2 especially with MT.
Coming from a 981 I knew I wanted the 6-cylinder 718. 4.0L in the 718 is an amazing engine. 718 GTS also comes with torque vectoring with mechanical limited slip, PASM, sports exhaust, sports chrono as standard. All these contribute to making the 718 GTS 4.0 a very different car from the ND2. Enough of a performance difference to me to justify having both.
I say ND2 with MT is more fun to drive in most cases than 718 PDK. Never driven MT in a 718 so I can't give a direct comparison.
Great garage! I've driven both the 981 and 718 manual. Both have great shifters but kind of hard clutches. Not great for traffic but fun on a back road. The Miata's clutch and shifter are better tho. Light, slick, short throw, its better than Porsche's in my view. I think if companies wanted to really save manuals they would make their clutches and shifters like the Miata, so easy and slick to use that you can daily it fine and choosing it over an auto is no big deal.
Fantastic review guys. Agree with everything in principal but we all have our list of priorities. Having owned a naturally aspirated Boxster S (987) in the past and enjoyed it and a couple of Golf Rs for practicality since it was time to enjoy an open top sports car again. The choice boiled down to 2 completely different cars. A 718 or an ND MX5. Wanted something with lowish miles and not more than 3 - 4 years old since i began spending money on the 987 before I sold it. Just wanted to offer that apart from the obvious, other factors came into play.
Both IMO are stunning looking cars. Loved the MX5 for looks, amazing value, the excellent simple but effective soft roof, the fun, the colours, esp soul red. Couldn't commit mainly because of the the very limited boot space (for touring Europe) and the unsupportive seats (Recaro option in UK only available on the 2016 Recaro edition and the bright orange 2019 Limited 30th Anniversary - a step too far!).
Bought a 718T on the basis of sublime performance/handling, exquisite looks, extra boot practicality, super comfortable seats with Sportex (leather too cold in a soft top in winter and too hot in the summer, slippery when cornering and can sag when old) and I have to admit, the badge, but probably more importantly the engineering and the hope of a reasonable resale value 🤷🏼♂.
So glad I made the choice. Utterly brilliant fun even without the 6 pot soundtrack.
“ reliable...unless you’re Nick Murray”. ROFLMAO. So true...
Mark kept yammering about the price but your not buying a GTS 4.0 for 80k...end of discussion. Definitely 100k or more, if you want paint and other extras. GT4 and Spyder obviously even more. Porsches seem expensive until you start shopping and can’t find anything you like as much for the same money. Then your perspective changes pretty quickly.
Jack was right on with the value proposition. Nothing twice the price is twice as good. Value is very nonlinear. Not uncommon to pay 50% more for something that is 10-20% better. That’s just how it works on almost everything. In the end, if you want it, you pay it. Never going the win the “ value” argument.
Overall, nice, entertaining review.
Great points, a Spyder is likely $120k for most, GTS 4.0 $100k. This car, $80k. If you’re talking bare spec, you’re at $100k/$85k/$70k.
I love the Boxster/Cayman T’s. Well worth it. Could also get a base car for $60k if saving $10 grand is your goal.
Nice review bruh, my 981 Spyder was $89.5K, and carfax has 15 for sale $99k- $112k. My sticker was $109k. Only less than 1,000 are available in the USA.
i’m with jack on this one. the level of engineering and driver’s enjoyablilty you can get out of this car cannot be beat for the price. obviously i still can’t afford anything close to this price lol
Today, this very day, iI enjoyed an extended dice with a well- driven air-cooled 911 on legendary Hwy 9, south of San Fran toward Santa Cruz. It was a really fun touch-and-go contest, with my ND2 MX-5 crawling up his butt in the twisties, and his flat six reeling me in on the straights, Nobody got stupid, everybody had fun. As we parted ways, we sensed our kinship: each of us doing our best to live up to the passion of the engineers who devoted their careers to building these amazing cars.
Great review and debate. My girlfriend and I bought a base 2017 718 Boxster on CPO , fairly loaded launch edition car with low miles, for $50k. We love the luggage space for road trips around western NC and north GA. It makes us smile every time we drive it, and it has all the performance we need. I previously had a 987.2 Cayman and yes the flat 6 sound is missing but we like the character of the turbo 4. At $50k we feel it was more than worth it. But the price of a new one is just too much, and I think the value proposition is not there even for rich people to buy or lease them new. Hence the small number you can usually find available as CPO at any given time. If I spec a base Boxster out today like my 2017, it is $76k. If I could spend 76, then I would mow some yards or sell some plasma and step up to a GTS 4.0.
Solution: Buy a CPO 981s+ with theoretically better warranty, engaging flat 6 and arguably better looks 🤷♂️
Thoroughly enjoyed Mark and Jack's debate. My friends and I rented a base 718 and drove it in the Twisted Sisters along with a ND1 Club. All three of us preferred the ND to the 718 from a driving perspective. I'd be keen to see if the 718 Boxster T could change my perspective on the 718.
That music had me expecting Superman to come flying over the cornfields
Great review. To me the biggest argument in favor of this over the 4.0 is that it has all the chassis/steering/handling goodness of the 718 platform with the smallest/weakest engine, so that you can actually row through the gears and rev it without going to jail after about mid-way through 2nd gear...
Exactly why I ordered it instead of getting a GTS. Yeah, would love the 4.0 but it’s not faster until you go illegal speeds and that’s not my goal on the street
The question of whether or not the experience is 2-3x better is a silly one. The better question is whether or not it’s worth a $40k delta for the 15-20% bump in dynamics that gets you near perfection, along with a performance floor that’s higher than a less expensive vehicle’s ceiling.
Having the potential and dynamics I’d rather buy the 4.0 and really use the advantage
@@joseacuna3239 if you can really, comfortably afford the extra $20K, then you should probably go 4.0; I love the T, but I think anyone arguing that it's the best regardless of price is simply disingenuous.
Thumbs up for the Snake Eater song! Cant get enough of the Porsche content. Keep up the good work!
Maybe it’s just the mid life crisis talking, but I need this car.
Wait for new Lotus ?
@@naxT890 no?
@@mimidotcat maybe?
@@mimidotcat why not?
@@naxT890 as great as Lotus is, the interior of a Lotus is so bare bones. It’s not something you would enjoy driving all day. The comfort of the Porsche Boxster is a major reason as why people get them.
Great video and great car. The biggest competition for a $78k Boxster are used Porsches. I got my low mileage 2017 Porsche 911 with a manual transmission for $75k. The Boxster/Caymans will be good buys on the used market once prices come down to normal. Definitely one of the best $60-65k driving experiences. Having reviewed both would I take this or the C8 Corvette? I would take this because I can get it with a manual transmission.
I'm very curious as to how sports cars in the US market will react to a successful Lotus Emira launch. That price point is astounding for a Lotus.
They'll price it at around $80k and dealers will put a $20k markup and price it out of reach for most of us.
A successful anything in the US would be a novelty for Lotus. I wish them well, but I can't see it being more than a modest seller.
They are for people who want a reliable, fun daily driver. Something people who haven't owned a Porsche don't understand is how reliable they are, especially in their simplest form such as a single turbo 4-cylinder with a manual. I've always loved 4-cylinder Porsches, having owned a 924 and a 944. They aren't for a petrolhead.
I actually agree with the Miata reference (I also owned a 94 NA) but the Porsche is infinitely more practical with actual storage and safety. Of course the Porsche is more expensive but it's equally reliable, fun and efficient.
The icing on the cake is IF you like working on your own car, these are a cakewalk. I replaced the clutch in my 944 in my driveway in a day, no different than my Mustang at the time. The most difficult issue to diagnose on the older Porsches were electrical gremlins, but as an Electrical Engineer that didn't pose a huge challenge, and electrical issues outside of bunk sensors are rare on new VAG products.
Overall the only, ONLY problem with the Boxter S, is the price. It's worth 70K to me, and if I were looking for this kind of car it would be at the top of my list, but most people aren't looking for this kind of car because they don't even know it exists.
this car at 60k is killer, 70-80? that's crazy
Would you feel the same way if the engine was a 2.7 flat six producing the same horsepower and torque vs the flat 4?
@@hankd9675 honestly it's hard to say without driving it. I would like to think that but the 4 banger has advantages as well.
@@hankd9675 Except it wouldn't - a 2.7 NA 6 would produce less power and a lot less torque - as it did.
@@johnyacoub69 I know the power stats of the old engine. My question was hypothetical. "Would you feel the same way IF......". The point I was making is many feel any 4 banger is inferior to a 6 no matter the engineering, etc. If Porsche modified 2.7 6 (perhaps a small turbo) to produce the same power and torque as the 2.0 four, I believe there would not be the same resistance to the cost of the 718.
@@hankd9675 > any 4 banger is inferior to a 6 no matter the engineering
Exactly this!
I wasn't expecting this kind of music for the intro but I'm loving it anyway, definitely adding it to my playlist on Spotify.
I'm with Mark on this. For fun engaging daily driving, despite how much "better" the 718 is, I'll take the Miata and pocket the savings and maybe do a few upgrades and still have a sizeable amount of $ pocketed.Considering vast majority of drivers won't or can even drive up to 1/2 the 718's capabilities, buying it is more a financial flex than buying it cause it's a better fun car than the Miata.
The other thing is... when I went and sat in a new ND I thought it was really nice for 30k. When you get into a Boxster T you think jeez this is all you get for 80k?
This car is meant for me. I love lightweight, mid engined balance, engaging driving experience cars but I'm with Mark on this. What car does Porsche sell right now that is actually affordable for us younger Porsche enthusiasts who can't step up to $90-$100k cars yet? Wasn't that the point of the boxster and cayman? 80 grand for an enthusiast specific car that should be 65 is just crazy talk. I don't understand who they think is actually going to buy these when the ideal owner can't afford or justify the cost... Not to mention the giant middle finger on T and GTS cars making you pay extra to get the T or the GTS interior package... Who thought that was a good idea? As a Porsche enthusiast the current lower end offerings are very hard to justify/defend.
“So do I” made my night
I live in the country and most twisty windy roads have a speed limit of 35 max. I owned a toyota 86 and now a kia stinger 3.3T and the v6 is absurd power on these roads. Floor it in 2nd, brake into the corner, do it again. Barely any shifting required and lots of braking. The 86 gave me more engagement and I can now appreciate that my 'ideal' car is likely a 4 cylinder. This ticks all the right boxes for my specific use case. The price does hurt massively but if I can afford it one day, I would buy it.
In a fight between Mark and Jack, my money is on Jack.
I wager three-hundred quatloos on the newcomer
" silverback Jack!"😂👍👍
^Probably the way Mark would like it which makes him a wildcard.
@@DavidRamseyIII 200 quatloos says they're untrainable!
He's got about 15 years and several inches. It's a pretty safe bet.
13:28 A 2022 ZL1 1LE is $73,395 and it would shit on this pos like it wasn't even there. On track, off track, at a meet, for enjoyment, reliability, etc. You name it, even the stock ZL1 would eat this little thing alive, let alone the 1LE. Hell a 2SS 1LE would destory this thing ($52,290).
Dont tell Porsche owners that.
“Unless you’re Nick Murray and Porsche are not reliable.” 😂
Poor man nick has gotten the short end of the stick quite consistently
You used the wrong your/you're and then unnecessarily ADDED an apostrophe to the plural form of Porsche? Go back to fourth grade.
@@keeleye7225 PREACH
Forgive me for my quick typing mistakes. There is a better way of providing feedback.
No need to be an ass.
@@keeleye7225 chill bro
Bought a 981 Boxster GTS a month ago, for $70K. My forever fun car. 3.4 L boxer 6 with 325 claimed HP, manual transmission. Gets the same gas mileage as this, even looks the same on the inside except the outdated radio/nav, the leather on interior the last owner optioned, and a stalk instead of a dial to access the display in the instrument cluster. GTS also comes standard with the glorious sounding sport exhaust and the dynamic suspension 10mm lower than the standard suspension. I can imagine how hard it is for Porsche to compete with their own lineup from a few years ago.
I would take the 80K and try to get a second hand Boxster S w/ 6 speed and 6 cyl, and probably still have some money left over. It's not as "special" as the T but 6 > 4
Love the back and forth discussion !!
The more people express their opinion on something the closer you get to the truth...it's called *brainstorming*
I kinda agreed with Mark here...even if I had the 80k $...that interior screams 20-30k $ used car from 2009
Not worth it...no matter how good it drives.
I think the cabin looks better in any color outside of black imo. Even shitty beige. The shapes in their just look ass and kinda cheap with black but the other colors really bring out the shapes and the metal touches.
In other words, it is butt ugly.