Thanks for watching! We do not view this video as an attack on Critical Role's IMMENSELY talented crew and spectacular show. We genuinely want to learn more about this wonderful game and grow our skills. How else can you do that if you don't talk about it? Let us know what you think about how things played out for the Mighty Nein here and what grades you would give. You can find our Combat Role & Action Economy Series right here: ruclips.net/p/PL6dmrZg4pm2rvWWm49JOqqjWCSDv4sv1F
I've seen this episode 3 times, I've watched this whole campaign twice (working on my third because I put it on in the back when I polish dice), but more importantly I also watched all of the Talks Machina. So I got to see countless hours with the cast being asked fan questions but also discussing things. While discussing this episode, Matt said that he tried to give warnings about the deadliness of the encounter and really didn't anticipate a confrontation the way that it happened. He purposely cast Cone of Cold to give them the idea of fleeing, but he said that Lorenzo didn't care about this encounter. He saw Keg, and just wanted to hurt her, he wasn't concerned about Beau, he wasn't even concerned that he was slightly on fire. I think they also discussed in Talks that his cages were full...? It certainly wasn't a perfect fight, as you called out there were lots of rules blunders or forgetting of abilities or spells. BUT, what I will say about this moment in the campaign, is it only got better from here. The characters became more full, I don't know if that makes sense. Beau was kind of a shit just floating around, but this affects her in a profound way and is her turning point. Caleb had been floating the idea that he could leave this group at any point and not care, and the only reason why he is with them is because its safer to travel together. But after this, he realizes he cares for them more than he thought he did. Nott also has her feelings deepen for the group. So, not my favorite fight, but definitely the moment where the campaign kicks off into gear. Plus Caduceus is way better of a character for Taliesin :-) ps. Nott is an Arcane Trickster
For some reason YT held this comment for review... sooooo weird. This was most definitely an incredibly significant moment, probably the most significant, in the entire campaign. From simply looking at this as a game moment, yeah, things unraveled so fast and the whole thing was less than 2 full rounds. Players so often don't pick up on the more subtle cues a DM gives them but when you mix a style of heavy roleplay into it, this is just something that can happen. Especially when you don't expect one of your players to self-inflict being afraid. I (Jake) saw this the week it happened and remember thinking the group should've run the moment Cone of Cold came out. Not sure they would've been able to successfully run, but that was probably the last time they had a true chance to get away, but that's what happens when you ignore the cues the DM is giving you... and there were so many. Josh definitely felt stronger about Lorenzo not killing Beau than I did, but I lean more toward his line of thinking. Beau is the kind of character that honestly if roleplayed properly (authority issues/flaws), shouldn't survive a campaign. Her mouth is just too big, but I get not wanting to kill your fiancé's (don't think they were married yet) character too. Cadeuceus is easily the best character Taliesin has played and it's not even close. At the end of the day, this is a game, but more specifically their game. They just happen to broadcast it so we decided to learn from it as best we can.
Great video, and thank you for taking my recommendation. I think these videos where you analyse the combat are for instructional because there is a lot you can learn from these and a lot you can take away. This is especially so when you are talking about a pivotal moment in a campaign (a moment that veers the rest of the campaign's story in a different direction) that came about via mistakes of the players and/or the DM. I think they are great though experiments that allow you not just to learn from the mistakes but kind of theorize how things would have ended up differently if mistakes hadn't been made. With that said, I am not aware of any other actual play session where mistakes led to a PC (or multiple PC's) death, however there might have been a lot of other sessions where mistakes in combat led to a pivotal shift in the flow of a campaign. So I have another recommendation: It would be great if you know of any to cover them in this series even if there were no pc's death. Again, thank you for doing this, there is a lot we can learn from these.
These videos are definitely the most labor-intensive ones we make but we do find them to be intriguing. We have discussed a couple of our own sessions to breakdown. Might not be great for reach since we’re still new and growing but it could perhaps further emphasize that we don’t claim perfection and it is about learning. 🤔🤔🤔
Great video guys. 💙💙 Josh said it right there in the beginning. Hindsight is as clear as a gelatinous cube! For me, the role play choices in this were spot on.
Hey guys! Hope you two are doing well! I was just hoping if ya'll could analyze the latest Otahan fight Bells Hells has had. Thank you & love your work!
Mercer's decision to make his villain ignore the battle around him - right up to and including the monk whacking him with a stick - to do a 2 minute death scene inside of what he constantly reminds his players is "only 6 seconds" has baffled me from the start.
@@JNJTabletop I didn't think of it like that but you're right. If he didn't just drive the point home by killing one of them, they would have kept going and then they all would drop. Then they could be prisoners, of course. It just doesn't make much sense as a movie in my head.
Well that’s the disjointed thing, right? Human traffickers tend to NOT want to be well known. Which only further emphasizes the fight really only SHOULD HAVE had 2 outcomes if the Iron Shepards win. Either the PCs all die or are captured (obviously you can mix and match as needed). That being said, this is a game and it not only created a very compelling story arc and villain in Lorenzo, it created the foundation for the big bad for the rest of the campaign.
@@JNJTabletop That's making good narrative use of what happened, but I don't think it changes your analysis of the battle. I agree with your grades, but would put Mercer lower. I recall a point where he let that rogue get Sneak Attack damage on Molly while shooting with disadvantage at long range. A pattern of mistakes against the favor of the PCs strikes me as careless.
@@JNJTabletop oh, man ... what a cliff hanger that would have been. Everyone goes down, some of them are in death saves... no idea which ones survived until next week.
Thanks for watching! We do not view this video as an attack on Critical Role's IMMENSELY talented crew and spectacular show. We genuinely want to learn more about this wonderful game and grow our skills. How else can you do that if you don't talk about it? Let us know what you think about how things played out for the Mighty Nein here and what grades you would give.
You can find our Combat Role & Action Economy Series right here: ruclips.net/p/PL6dmrZg4pm2rvWWm49JOqqjWCSDv4sv1F
I view this as an attack and I whole heartedly support your war on CR.
I've seen this episode 3 times, I've watched this whole campaign twice (working on my third because I put it on in the back when I polish dice), but more importantly I also watched all of the Talks Machina. So I got to see countless hours with the cast being asked fan questions but also discussing things. While discussing this episode, Matt said that he tried to give warnings about the deadliness of the encounter and really didn't anticipate a confrontation the way that it happened. He purposely cast Cone of Cold to give them the idea of fleeing, but he said that Lorenzo didn't care about this encounter. He saw Keg, and just wanted to hurt her, he wasn't concerned about Beau, he wasn't even concerned that he was slightly on fire. I think they also discussed in Talks that his cages were full...?
It certainly wasn't a perfect fight, as you called out there were lots of rules blunders or forgetting of abilities or spells. BUT, what I will say about this moment in the campaign, is it only got better from here. The characters became more full, I don't know if that makes sense. Beau was kind of a shit just floating around, but this affects her in a profound way and is her turning point. Caleb had been floating the idea that he could leave this group at any point and not care, and the only reason why he is with them is because its safer to travel together. But after this, he realizes he cares for them more than he thought he did. Nott also has her feelings deepen for the group.
So, not my favorite fight, but definitely the moment where the campaign kicks off into gear. Plus Caduceus is way better of a character for Taliesin :-)
ps. Nott is an Arcane Trickster
For some reason YT held this comment for review... sooooo weird.
This was most definitely an incredibly significant moment, probably the most significant, in the entire campaign. From simply looking at this as a game moment, yeah, things unraveled so fast and the whole thing was less than 2 full rounds. Players so often don't pick up on the more subtle cues a DM gives them but when you mix a style of heavy roleplay into it, this is just something that can happen. Especially when you don't expect one of your players to self-inflict being afraid.
I (Jake) saw this the week it happened and remember thinking the group should've run the moment Cone of Cold came out. Not sure they would've been able to successfully run, but that was probably the last time they had a true chance to get away, but that's what happens when you ignore the cues the DM is giving you... and there were so many. Josh definitely felt stronger about Lorenzo not killing Beau than I did, but I lean more toward his line of thinking. Beau is the kind of character that honestly if roleplayed properly (authority issues/flaws), shouldn't survive a campaign. Her mouth is just too big, but I get not wanting to kill your fiancé's (don't think they were married yet) character too.
Cadeuceus is easily the best character Taliesin has played and it's not even close.
At the end of the day, this is a game, but more specifically their game. They just happen to broadcast it so we decided to learn from it as best we can.
Great video, and thank you for taking my recommendation. I think these videos where you analyse the combat are for instructional because there is a lot you can learn from these and a lot you can take away. This is especially so when you are talking about a pivotal moment in a campaign (a moment that veers the rest of the campaign's story in a different direction) that came about via mistakes of the players and/or the DM. I think they are great though experiments that allow you not just to learn from the mistakes but kind of theorize how things would have ended up differently if mistakes hadn't been made.
With that said, I am not aware of any other actual play session where mistakes led to a PC (or multiple PC's) death, however there might have been a lot of other sessions where mistakes in combat led to a pivotal shift in the flow of a campaign. So I have another recommendation: It would be great if you know of any to cover them in this series even if there were no pc's death. Again, thank you for doing this, there is a lot we can learn from these.
These videos are definitely the most labor-intensive ones we make but we do find them to be intriguing. We have discussed a couple of our own sessions to breakdown. Might not be great for reach since we’re still new and growing but it could perhaps further emphasize that we don’t claim perfection and it is about learning. 🤔🤔🤔
Great video guys. 💙💙
Josh said it right there in the beginning. Hindsight is as clear as a gelatinous cube! For me, the role play choices in this were spot on.
Thank you! Josh is pretty good at this D&D / TTRPG thing 😉
@@JNJTabletop he sure is!
Hey guys! Hope you two are doing well! I was just hoping if ya'll could analyze the latest Otahan fight Bells Hells has had. Thank you & love your work!
Wow she’s still around? We haven’t kept up with CR at all lately but will definitely keep it in mind! Thank you!
@@JNJTabletop Thank you for replying!
I don't know about grades, but when i watched this episode i said "wait what?" So many times
You and me both!
As far as killing boe i disagree it makes sense that Lorenzo was trying to embarrass her
Mercer's decision to make his villain ignore the battle around him - right up to and including the monk whacking him with a stick - to do a 2 minute death scene inside of what he constantly reminds his players is "only 6 seconds" has baffled me from the start.
It really could’ve been a TPK!
@@JNJTabletop I didn't think of it like that but you're right. If he didn't just drive the point home by killing one of them, they would have kept going and then they all would drop.
Then they could be prisoners, of course.
It just doesn't make much sense as a movie in my head.
Well that’s the disjointed thing, right? Human traffickers tend to NOT want to be well known. Which only further emphasizes the fight really only SHOULD HAVE had 2 outcomes if the Iron Shepards win. Either the PCs all die or are captured (obviously you can mix and match as needed).
That being said, this is a game and it not only created a very compelling story arc and villain in Lorenzo, it created the foundation for the big bad for the rest of the campaign.
@@JNJTabletop That's making good narrative use of what happened, but I don't think it changes your analysis of the battle. I agree with your grades, but would put Mercer lower. I recall a point where he let that rogue get Sneak Attack damage on Molly while shooting with disadvantage at long range. A pattern of mistakes against the favor of the PCs strikes me as careless.
@@JNJTabletop oh, man ... what a cliff hanger that would have been. Everyone goes down, some of them are in death saves... no idea which ones survived until next week.