The point about Delany’s Dhalgren is that it both begins and ends with unfinished sentences in such a way it is a circular narrative. Thanks for the vid!
Agree, "Slaughterhouse 5" generated some very significant and heated political controversy, because it dared question that both sides can do bad things in war.
I've read the Iron Dream. It's not actually about Germany winning WWII; most of the book is presented as a story written by Adolf Hitler, framed by an alternate timeline wherein he never comes to power but emigrates to America and becomes a pulp sci-fi writer. 'The Iron Dream' is the title of the book he writes which depicts what he wishes would've happened. It's very satirical of some of the real science-fiction that was being written at the time. I found it to be a good idea but repetitive; the joke kind of wore out for me after about 1/3 of the way through but equally I've read reviews of people who loved it.
I think _The Iron Dream_ is really good. It is supposed to be a satire on bad fantasy, but it is just good enough to be enjoyable as a pulpy adventure story. If you can take the style, then I think the conceit of it, and the way it works out, is pretty clever. It is a satire on fascist elements in fantasy fiction, but also a reimagining of actual Nazi history rendered as absurdly cheesy pulp.
It was a satire and critique of sci fi and fantasy fans who were enjoying story themes that Spinrad considered fascist. As in, “… if Hitler wrote a sci fi book you’d love it!” This was in the early 70s. It’s brilliant satire, especially if you know about the Third Reich
I certainly don't see any parody in the book. I also disagree with those people who criticized the author for "supporting" the style of government portrayed in the book. If you read more of the author's writing, you see in many cases the characters voice a contempt for big government and support libertarian or even anarchist views.
Haha i agree with that… but then I read this kind of book often and i also value books that make me think and question things…. Im glad there are others out there
@@secretsauceofstorycraft When you consider the declining literacy rates and interest in reading - 34.6% of children and young people aged 8 to 18 said they enjoyed reading in their free time, which is the lowest since 2005 - along with reports that Elite College students can't read books, Fahrenheit 451 seems super prescient. What's more scary than a government that burns books? A government that doesn't need to.
This was an interesting idea for a video. The one thing I'd suggest is keeping the book covers up while you talk about them. I tried to go back and re-watch one part and had a hard time finding it since the books are only briefly flashed up on the screen.
@@secretsauceofstorycraft There's one sci-fi MacGuffin in GR, Imipolex G, the first plastic which is _erectile,_ which serves to drive the quest narrative.
I came out at 31 which surprised me I didn't think that I had read many controversial books. I'm surprised that Wrinkle in Time and Kindred weren't on the list. They've actually been banned.
Iron Dream is alternate universe story that has Hitler moving to the US after failing to get into art school. In the US he becomes one of the golden ages greatest illustrators. The story is set in a post nuclear war Earth. With Starship Trooper the original issue was the perceived glorification of war and all things military....funny how times change. And as for L Ron Hubbard. It is definitely not alleged he started Scientology, he 100% did start it, and was the leader up until his death
@@bazoo513 it's a double-edged sword really because for the 'joke', as it were, to work, the novel *had* to be terrible. Some of the analogues in the story to real-world events like the beer hall putsch and Kristalnacht was kinda interesting, and the satirisation of the underlying homo-erotic elements of Hitler's ideology was somewhat funny, but it really depends how far your mileage with the bit is. I'd had enough by half-way I think.
@@bazoo513 Sure, it is definitely not for everyone. Spinrad was also trying to capture the tone of many of the pulp stories of the time the novel is set in.
@@DaBIONICLEFan Did you at least skip the back and read Dr Whipple's dissertation on the novel and Hitler's writing in general. The great battles with Zind... I mean the USSR are hard to slog through... but they have a real 1930's pulp feel about them
This is the first video of yours I've seen and I must say that your obvious enthusiasm and eloquence makes you a pleasure to watch. I was surprised that books that include more sexually explicit content, such as several by Philip Jose Farmer, Cecilia Tan, Norman Spinrad, etc., were not included, though I personally consider eroticism much less divisive than violence.
@@secretsauceofstorycraft Rich bloke dies and gets his brain transplanted into another body. Only its a beautiful female and he ends up being able to communicate with the remnants of her soul. Somehow they need to co-exist.
A Clockwork Orange does deal with really distressing topics and the main characters are about as unlikeable as you will ever read about, but it is a brilliant treatise on violence. I'm a gentle soul who despises any sort of violence, but this book (and excellent film adaptation) really makes one think about possible solutions to violence in society and whether the solution may be even worse.
I got 18….20 if you include rereads 😅 I was hoping for higher, perhaps my reading is more vanilla than I thought! I was quite surprised at how many I hadn’t heard of. As soon as I saw Starship Troopers I knew Stranger had to come soon! Really fun video!
I've tried reading Dhalgren several times. Managed to get to the middle of the book and simply could not continue. It's an impressive web of narrative but it gets to the point where the brain is like, what the heck are we doing here?😅
I have been reading and collecting SF for over 50 years, and I got....8 points! Seems controversial is not a sub-genre I care for. Heinlein is the only author on the list that I've read more than one book. Most of them his less (kinda) controversial juveniles. Fun list, even if it's a bunch of books and authors that just aren't for me.
Come on - read all of those. At least 20 of those are very good to brilliant; only 2-3 are garbage, and even those are worth reading to get into the heads of those who idolize them,
@secretsauceofstorycraft oh, I agree it's a fun experiment. I just found it funny that I had read so few of them! I like to think I'm well read but lots of top 10 lists have books I haven't read.
Gravity's Rainbow is not science fiction, so most viewers are off the hook. It is an exceptionally difficult and long, post-modern read; I can only recommend it to fellow English majors.
I’m a recovering English major. I have read Gravity’s Rainbow. I agree: best for English majors! But The Crying of Lot 49 is for everyone and it’s short. And funny!
I was very taken aback by one passage in Gateway. The main character, out of misplaced jealousy, beats his girlfriend, and she forgives him! That takes place late in the novel so I did finish it, but that just really upset me.
Haha maybe 🤔 but is that #1 the most “well known” scifi book? I am not sure I would say so. But i understand what you mean. Maybe just books people publically debate??
Interesting topic! I've read 19, own 24, for a total of 43. I don't think I would consider 27-30 controversial. I certainly would never put Battlefield Earth at #3. But I very much enjoyed your discussion of the books!
I don't think "When Gravity Fails' is controversial unless you're Islamophobic. I loved all three books in this series. Besides, how can an author nicknamed 'Piglet' write controversially? It defies logic. Thanks for an interesting list!
Yep, that's the point - say one positive word about Islam (e.g. that we got practically all foundations for European scientific revolution and Enlightenment, from Indian math to Greek philosophy and medicine to Arab astronomy via Arabs of Al Andalus), and you are worse than controversial to at least 50% Americans.
Well, I own 9 of these and have read 10 (I’ve also read the first book only in the Gene Wolfe series). Of the ones I’ve read, I don’t think any are really controversial except “Stranger in a Strange Land”; and any controversy about that has probably changed in nature since it was first published in 1961. But you don’t need to be frightened of reading it: it makes easy enough reading, not stressful at all. The first two-thirds of it makes quite a good story; the last third is relatively disappointing but still somewhat readable. Probably the ones on this list that I haven’t read are more controversial than the ones I have read: I’m not particularly attracted to controversial fiction. Mind you, controversy is a rather vague concept. I suppose it just means that there are differences of opinion about the book; and is there any book about which there are no differences of opinion? You just have to look at Goodreads to see that ANY book is rated five stars by some and one star by others.
This is a good point!! I agree that controversial is determined by the reader…. Thats why asking chatgpt and others was so interesting 🤔 i plan to read stranger in strange land soon…. I have been putting it off far too long. Thanks for the encouragement!
I don't know what I expected. It is fair to say that I haven't think which books would be controversial. Books that I read from this list didn't feel that controversial to me. Perhaps I don't view exploration of an edgy topic controversial... for me author must push certain agenda within the book to feel controversial. That's me, I must confess that I do not know what makes book controversial? Reception of the book by the public, but popularity, niche, timing... sometimes it seems that controversies jump out of nowhere. Everything was fine and "BOOM!", wild controversy appeared. Some books are controversial, and some just got bad (?) reputation. Well, anyways, I got only 15 points but Stranger in a Strange Land, Crush, Sparrow and Onyx and Crake are on my TBR.
Haha 😆 i dont know what i expected either. But Its fun to talk about… because i kinda agree lots of these didbt feel that controversial to me--Which is why I decided to make this video. Thanks for noticing and starting this conversation!
That was fun! I only scored 8 1/2. I gave myself 1/2 point for making it thru half of 1Q84. That book should be controversial for how many readers it bored to death 😂
It’s funny that AI doesn’t think AI is controversial. It didn’t seem to be a theme in any of these books… and it’s certainly been a topic written about for a long time.
Odd. I got 39 points. I'm not sure, as you don't say, where these 'this book is listed as controversial because...' explanations comes from but all those purported reasons don't seem to qualify. I've never encountered a fiction book that was controversial, let alone a SciFi book that's controversial. I don't see how that's possible. Fiction, and SF in particular should be exploratory in nature, which by definition then must be utterly inclusive. Of course I could see how some of these could be considered off-putting or unappetizing for some people, but that has more to do with the person rather than the text itself. In fact, I'd argue that soem of these should be required reading...
Its interesting to see what was on the list according to these AI…. At least thats what i thought….lots of these werent that controversial but some were…
@@secretsauceofstorycraft Indeed. But isn't "controversial" an entirely subjective construct? I'm sure I've read things I consider controversial that others may not, and I know for a fact that I've read things that I deem utterly non-controversial that make others blush or grimace... For myself, a voracious reader, I've only once in my life encountered reading something where I was taken aback and had to pause. And it wasn't even SciFi, it was Ellis' American Psycho. But: I was afterwards elated with the fact that something textual could so affect me. And thus happy for the experience...
@@steved1135 absolutely! The definition of controversial is entirely subjective! Thats why when I got this list while playing around with chatgpt, I knew had to make this video. Where did they get this list and the reasons? Was it internet bloggers, reviewers? A compliation? I have no idea. 🤷🏼♀️ i certaintly wouldnt have made this list this way. I also hear you when you say you havent read a “controversial” books because as science fiction fans - i think most of us not only like, but value, books that play with challenging and new ideas. It is after all why it is my favorite genre! Im glad u feel that way too
Long time subscriber, first time commenter. Interesting topic, but I’m unsure about the definition used here for “controversial.” Yes, many were for sure, but the AI calling a book controversial because of what it “explores, “images”, or raises “ethical questions,” is misleading. These are topics that surround us as a species, or might even deal with in daily living. To me these incorrect definitions might work towards potential readers choosing not to read a certain book. Kudos to you for actually defining “controversial” and questing the definition as I have. I hope this is a successful video for you. Unique and “controversial.”
Thanks for commenting! I’m glad you understood that I dont necessarily agree with this list but do like that it has started some great discussions here! I so think controversial is subjective. And might even go as far as to say those things that spark debate are the reason I read and like sci fi as a genre. Thanks for contributing… nice to chat!
1984 ends up be controversial because people miss that it's a total anti fascist/communist work ... unless one lives in a fascist or communist/socialist society, where they correctly identified it as being critical of them. Which make it controversial in like half the world? Thanks for the reviews. I haven't read most of these and with this review, I'm probably gonna avoid them.
In The Iron Dream, Norman Spinrad posits an alternate world in which Adolph Hitler does not go into politics, he emigrates to the United States where he supports himself doing illustrations for SF magazines. His English, then, gets good enough that he writes a book embodying the Iron Dream. In other words, the book is a piece of fiction written by a fictional character. I have to give Spinrad credit for inhabiting Hitler's mind most convincingly. So convincingly, in fact, the I that my stomach churns, remembering it. Every sentence sounds like something Hitler would say. It is a book I think everybody should have read but I hesitate to recommend that you read it.
I first read it in German (were, for a while, it was quasi-banned as "endangering young people", i.e. it could only be sold legally under the counter), and the translation is rather flat. The original is much better. Of course, in German, Hitlers Germanisms don't show...
With all due respect.. To say that Left Hand of Darkness explores the idea of gender roles as a social construct is just wrong. The people on the planet Winter very clearly lack the biological distictions we on earth have between men and women. The people on Winter never have sexual desires outsides of specific time-lapses. It's specifically these biological conditions that give way to explain why the people on Winter behave like they do. Or am I missing something? Is the book not exploring the opposite? How our social behaviour is so deeply rooted in our biological differencies? I just so often hear people give this specific book attributes it shouldn't have. I love the book btw.
You seemed to ask for english speaking authors only. I would like to mention "We" by Jewgenji Semjatin, "Roadside Picnic" by the Strugatzki Brothers, "The futurological Congress" by Stanislav Lem, "Blindness" byJose Saramago, "War with the newts" by Karel Capek.
Glad you mentioned "We". It predates 1984 with very similar plot structure. "Roadside Picnic" is superb. Is it controversial? Maybe the sacrifice at the end would make it so.
Even deciding what is and isn’t controversial, is controversial. You did well with a difficult subject… (though of course, we can credit/blame Chat GPT for the list).
Gravity's Rainbow is my all-time favorite novel; I've read it more times than I can count and have sections virtually memorized. It helps to read it with one of the many GR guides out there, but the idea that this candidate for a Pulitzer is "unreadable" (it won the National Book Award) is an absurd legend. And it's postmodern historical metafiction, not sci-fi. Hard to read (which GR is unless you're an academic who can smother difficult prose) is not synonymous with unreadable; James Joyce's Finnegan's Wake might be technically (and intentionally) unreadable as a novel or story. GR's broad story arc is actually pretty straightforward and its anti-military industrial complex themes are transparent. Controversial it is, though. Pedophilia, coprophilia, sadomasochism, all yield some scenes which are stomach turning. It ends at the last delta-t before a nuclear apocalypse.
I wonder where personal responsibility begins. If you were warned not to walk through an incredibly dangerous slum at night and yet you did, thinking "It's not my fault if someone attacks me, that's on them!", would it then be wrong for people to blame you for what happened to you? Would you not at some point say to yourself ”Maybe I should have listened..."? The 1961 version is a much more entertaining and relevant book. We're talking Stranger in a Strange Land here.
@@secretsauceofstorycraft yes, if I remember correctly, Bradbury said it was more about the deleterious effects of TV/mass media. You might recall the wall-sized interactive TVs (TV coming into vogue at the time it was written), acting as a sort of opiate of the masses, and in so doing, replaced the written word.
Any book that talks about a topic outside the box of what people think of as normal will be seen as controversial. So, whether it is controversial is is matter of perspective; IMNSHO most of these books listed as controversial is down to a lack of education in history/psychology/sociology/economics or other subject.
17:55 - Not surprising at all. If the book promotes freedom, equality (economic and gender), knowledge, it will be "controversial" to the powers that are currently taking control of the US (and that are, sadly, very strong elsewhere, too.)
Fantastic idea and great video, Whitney! Maybe I’m just jaded, but I find controversial books, especially banned or challenged books are usually the most interesting. 😺✌️
After some thought I think these AIs need more training. Did they even consider Heinlein’s Time Enough for Love? Also, I wouldn’t consider Gravity’s Rainbow or Atlas Shrugged to be science fiction, but I guess it’s debatable. I have most of them somewhere in storage and have read all except Hubbard. I wasted 2 hours of my childhood on the movie version of Battlefield Earth. Ugh. 😂
There was one book...Forever War I think it was...where you mentioned it was controversial because of it's anti war message. I feel like every book about war and violence should be anti!
I think much of the "controversy" attributed to Stranger in a Strange Land these days is due to some of the 1950s era societal norms that creep into the book. While Heinlein was considered something of a radical in his day, our view from over 60 years later can make him appear somewhat sexist, while his negative views on organized religion and big government are much less controversial these days.
This gave me some interesting thoughts, so first off thank you for the video. I have two substantial critiques of your takes (and I agree with most of your arguments so 2 out 30 isn't a lot). First off I think you badly miss the mark with Fahrenheit 451. It's not a book about censorship, though this is a common reading of it. The book is actually about how easily consumable (and ultimately empty) entertainment media destroys literacy, degrades human thought, and ultimately leads society to a bad place. Don't feel bad if you didn't get that out of it, it's often not even taught that way in a school or even university setting, but in this case we have a pretty clear statement from Bradbury himself, the book is about how TV destroyed literacy. This is controversial but coming from today, 2024, it's hard not to see that we are indeed in the middle of a decline of literacy and that we are at the same time in an era of easily accessible, often near-free, entertainment in various forms available for anyone to consume. Correlation is not causation but I think an argument for causation can be made. Second off, the reason 1984 is controversial is because the book argues that through a combination of fear and violence on the one hand, and information control on the other, you can actually get people to betray not just their friends and families but themselves. You can get people to believe in nonsense, in obvious untruths, and in directly contradictory things. And not just get them to repeat these things but to actually believe they are true. In many ways Eric Blair was responding to the optimism of many 1800's authors and thinkers that thought if we get enough education, and enough material progress, we can all be a society of intelligent rational beings that choose their own fate, that know the world around them, etc. However in the first half of the 20th century there were a number of works that argued in the other direction and 1984 was one of them. It's controversial because it posits that we're not really all that rational, and that the way our minds work can be manipulated by external factors. In this regard it's similar to the arguments put forth in Huxley's "Brave New World", and Evegeniy Zamyatin's "We". I would even agree with Postman's comment (from "Amusing Ourselves to Death") that Huxley makes the same argument, but instead of fear and violence plus information control, it can be done through pleasure and entertainment plus information control. So the controversy of 1984 is this; you can be made to believe that your significant other whom you've lived with for several years and have children with is an enemy spy, a horrible person, and not the person you thought they were, even with no objective first hand evidence of any of it. Clearly this isn't universally agreed upon, and the argument between optimists and pessimists about the future continues to this day. Sorry for the giant essay.
The problem with the word controversial is that all it requires is two opposing opinions, regardless of the validity of said opinions. After all, if half the world are flat earth ears, a book that describes the earth as spherical will be “controversial”, even though the only reason for it is the lack of education or logic on one of the two sides. Because of this, pure science is often “controversial”, even though the dogma of religion that is exposed often later recedes. So, I don’t find this label as all that meaningful, even though it is often used to drive sales. That said, if an author posits a moral stance at odds with prevailing societal norms, I suppose that fits the label, gut is still very specific to the time and culture into which a book is published. Looking at books from another time period, some would have been controversial when published, but are less so now, due to the shifting of cultural norms over time. Other books may not have been controversial when they were published, but are now considered so because, again, of shifting societal norms. Thanks for the video.
Have not read Neuropath but have read his Second Apocalypse when he had an R. Imagine Paul Atredies leading the Second Crusade. They are pretty graphic as Bakker just gets in your head and can write beautifully. He also riffs on Tolkein making Moria realy terrifying. This is on my someday list. Stranger starts interesting then around 2/3 in he goes off the rails. Not sure why The Stand is there but agree it is overly long with an unsatisfying ending. Am reading Starship Troopers now and first impression is the social critique is a little less obvious than in the movie.
Ooh thanks for the info! I still havent decided if I’m going to read neuropath. I dont know why the stand was on there either. Clearly AI doesnt know what the heck….But glad you are reading Starship troopers- i agree with your assessment!
I've read almost all of these and notice you do not own / have not read many in my Top 10. Altered Carbon (a trilogy with Broken Angels and Woken Furies) has great characters, plot and ideas. The Stand is my fave King book - good vs evil. I read Stranger in a Strange Land in 9th grade and man was it powerful. Atlas Shrugged - loved it but it's not science fiction as such. The Valis trilogy is mind blowing, inventive, questioning - near perfect. Though not "controversial" I could not finish Crash, Dahlgren or Gravity's Rainbow. When you have to make and refer to notes just to keep up with the "plot" that's too much work. Merry Christmas!
I think that LLNs will produce a credible ranking by collating reviews and star ratings on online bookstores and sites like Goodreads - "refining" it would depend on one's precise definition of controversy. While at least two books on this list are worthless per se, it is still good to read them in order to get a better idea of those who adore them. Similar with those we tried to read and didn't "click" with them - for me, for example, Wolfe. Perhaps I will once summon the strength to plow all the way through the series and discover it was worth it. Or Liu Cixin - I found the SciFi "meat" of it tedious, but the depiction of the Cultural Revolution most interesting (and disturbing, of course). I would be very disappointed if masterpieces like _Nineteen Eighty Four, Handmaid's Tale, Fahrenheight 452_ or _Left Hand of Darkness_ were not on the list. But let's not forget _Space Merchants, Brave New World_ or _Animal Farm._ Finally, the grand-daddy of political distopia, _We_ by Yevgeny Zamyatin, certainly controversial as hell (its first print in Russia was 65 years after he wrote it!) is probably missing here because too few people read it.
It's this kind of thing that proves that the word "intelligence" in AI is misplaced. They aren't really intelligent. I'm not sure what I'd define as controversy but it isn't a lot of these. I got 25 points - I would have got more but I DNF'd a few of these and got rid of a couple of others because I didn't want to keep them. I have read Gravity's Rainbow - I'd argue it isn't SF in any real way. It's a hard read but not unreadable, it has some pretty graphic stuff in it, and when you get to the end you realise Pynchon has written it as a massive practical joke on the reader. I like Pynchon as a writer and I'd much prefer to read his work, than Wolfe's or Delaney's - all of them writing postmodern work that is deliberately difficult to read. Finally , Margaret Attwood hates it when people describe her work as Science Fiction, so this list would make her pretty cranky :)
I agree with you! This list is highly contentious- i would not have put it together this way. Thought it was interesting…. And despite atwood’s feelings her work speaks for itself luckily….
Great video idea! 🙌 I got 27 points, I think. Stranger in a Strange Land was a miss for me. Very much heavy-handed; it feels like the author is inserting himself and spewing his political agenda. But that’s just my opinion. Hope you enjoy it more than I did.
You have a point about Stranger. The "wise old man" insert is very common in Heinlein's writing, and he definitely spends a lot of time discussing issues of morality, education, personal responsibility and the role of government in his books.
@@michaeljdauben Yes, I agree, these are all interesting and important topics, but how he does it in Stranger (preaching), does not work for me. I much prefer, for example, LeGuin's more subtle, nuanced approach. But it's likely just me, he is Big 3 for a reason.
Using ChatGPT to pick the most controversial sci-fi books is such a cool idea! Some of these picks really make you think. I wonder what other titles could’ve made the list - time to start a debate in the comments!
I think i scored 36. I don't know that many of these are really controversial, but as you say, perhaps that doesn't mean what I think it means! Or perhaps chatgpt doesn't know shit! 😀
Huh. "Lord of Light" is undoubtedly thought provoking in many ways, philosophical, ideological, theological, etc. That is a lot of "al" ending big words. Zelazny throws a major wrench in. We are not sure if the main character is "The Lord of Light". Because while Sam, the main character, teaches his religious preference, he does not completely believe in it. He uses it towards achieving his own, and important, ends. But, his prize pupil fully embraces Sam's teachings and does realize the religious fulfillment that somewhat eludes Sam. He is killed defending Sam. Sam considers this man "The Lord of Light", of a real, working religion, who nearly overcomes the super science confronting him. At least that is what I got out of this part of the novel!🙂
From my views of many of the books, it seems like AI has a difficult time differentiating between dark and controversial. Are there really sane people who argue that n@zism or distopias are a good thing? 🤔
If you want to know why Fahrenheit 451 is still relevant today, update your current events regarding prime minister Ken Starmers assault on free speech and thought in Great Britain now.
The point about Delany’s Dhalgren is that it both begins and ends with unfinished sentences in such a way it is a circular narrative. Thanks for the vid!
Hmmm…. Interesting! Thanks for watching
Interesting discussion. I am surprised there were no Kurt Vonnegut novels on the list. Thanks!
Agree, "Slaughterhouse 5" generated some very significant and heated political controversy, because it dared question that both sides can do bad things in war.
Wow…. 🤯 now that you mention it I agree! Weird
I've read the Iron Dream. It's not actually about Germany winning WWII; most of the book is presented as a story written by Adolf Hitler, framed by an alternate timeline wherein he never comes to power but emigrates to America and becomes a pulp sci-fi writer. 'The Iron Dream' is the title of the book he writes which depicts what he wishes would've happened. It's very satirical of some of the real science-fiction that was being written at the time.
I found it to be a good idea but repetitive; the joke kind of wore out for me after about 1/3 of the way through but equally I've read reviews of people who loved it.
Wow!!! That is very off! Chatgpt fail! Thank you for telling me. Not sure that sounds great….
@@secretsauceofstorycraft Typical "ChatGPT hallucination" 😀
I think _The Iron Dream_ is really good. It is supposed to be a satire on bad fantasy, but it is just good enough to be enjoyable as a pulpy adventure story. If you can take the style, then I think the conceit of it, and the way it works out, is pretty clever. It is a satire on fascist elements in fantasy fiction, but also a reimagining of actual Nazi history rendered as absurdly cheesy pulp.
It was a satire and critique of sci fi and fantasy fans who were enjoying story themes that Spinrad considered fascist. As in, “… if Hitler wrote a sci fi book you’d love it!” This was in the early 70s. It’s brilliant satire, especially if you know about the Third Reich
I feel like most people who aren't sure if Starship Troopers is a parody or not just watched the movie instead of reading the book.
Hmm, i feel different since i read orphans of the sky, which is very allegorical, too. Thats probably what makes it controversial I guess!
I've seen/read both. The book had it's moments, but this was one of those rare occasions where I favored the film.
I certainly don't see any parody in the book. I also disagree with those people who criticized the author for "supporting" the style of government portrayed in the book. If you read more of the author's writing, you see in many cases the characters voice a contempt for big government and support libertarian or even anarchist views.
Yes, the movie is certainly a satire. For the novel, I am not quite sure.
The movie is pure sarcasm, but to subtle for many viewers. The book is quite serious.
I'm actually reading Fahrenheit 451 now and it's a great book with important things to say...but not controversial, not in this day and age!
Sadly, to many of the crowd purging school and even public libraries it still _is_ controversial.
Haha i agree with that… but then I read this kind of book often and i also value books that make me think and question things…. Im glad there are others out there
@@secretsauceofstorycraft When you consider the declining literacy rates and interest in reading - 34.6% of children and young people aged 8 to 18 said they enjoyed reading in their free time, which is the lowest since 2005 - along with reports that Elite College students can't read books, Fahrenheit 451 seems super prescient. What's more scary than a government that burns books? A government that doesn't need to.
This was an interesting idea for a video. The one thing I'd suggest is keeping the book covers up while you talk about them. I tried to go back and re-watch one part and had a hard time finding it since the books are only briefly flashed up on the screen.
Having read it 4+ times, I can assure you that Gravity's Rainbow is not SF. Period.
That is good to know!! These chatgpt are incredibly rife with errors. I’m sadly, not surprised.
@@secretsauceofstorycraft There's one sci-fi MacGuffin in GR, Imipolex G, the first plastic which is _erectile,_ which serves to drive the quest narrative.
I came out at 31 which surprised me I didn't think that I had read many controversial books. I'm surprised that Wrinkle in Time and Kindred weren't on the list. They've actually been banned.
Yeah there were lots of books somehow skipped! Thanks for your comment
Why was wrinkle in time banned?
@@Scottlp2 Promoted witchcraft
I got 21 points. Read The Stand and loved it, I didn't see it as particularly controversial. Stranger in a Strange Land is definitely worth reading.
I do think i’m going to commit to reading stranger next year. I’ve put it off too long but also good job on getting 21 points
My three favorite words....controversy, controversy, controversy!!
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Iron Dream is alternate universe story that has Hitler moving to the US after failing to get into art school. In the US he becomes one of the golden ages greatest illustrators. The story is set in a post nuclear war Earth. With Starship Trooper the original issue was the perceived glorification of war and all things military....funny how times change. And as for L Ron Hubbard. It is definitely not alleged he started Scientology, he 100% did start it, and was the leader up until his death
Yes, but I don't see it in his novel. It is merely bad.
@@bazoo513 it's a double-edged sword really because for the 'joke', as it were, to work, the novel *had* to be terrible. Some of the analogues in the story to real-world events like the beer hall putsch and Kristalnacht was kinda interesting, and the satirisation of the underlying homo-erotic elements of Hitler's ideology was somewhat funny, but it really depends how far your mileage with the bit is. I'd had enough by half-way I think.
@@bazoo513 Sure, it is definitely not for everyone. Spinrad was also trying to capture the tone of many of the pulp stories of the time the novel is set in.
@@DaBIONICLEFan Did you at least skip the back and read Dr Whipple's dissertation on the novel and Hitler's writing in general. The great battles with Zind... I mean the USSR are hard to slog through... but they have a real 1930's pulp feel about them
Dhalgren is my all time favorite.
This is the first video of yours I've seen and I must say that your obvious enthusiasm and eloquence makes you a pleasure to watch. I was surprised that books that include more sexually explicit content, such as several by Philip Jose Farmer, Cecilia Tan, Norman Spinrad, etc., were not included, though I personally consider eroticism much less divisive than violence.
I would likely have added Heinlein's "I will fear no evil" to the list...
Oooh that is a good addition. I havent read that one
@@secretsauceofstorycraft Rich bloke dies and gets his brain transplanted into another body. Only its a beautiful female and he ends up being able to communicate with the remnants of her soul. Somehow they need to co-exist.
A Clockwork Orange does deal with really distressing topics and the main characters are about as unlikeable as you will ever read about, but it is a brilliant treatise on violence. I'm a gentle soul who despises any sort of violence, but this book (and excellent film adaptation) really makes one think about possible solutions to violence in society and whether the solution may be even worse.
I got 18….20 if you include rereads 😅 I was hoping for higher, perhaps my reading is more vanilla than I thought! I was quite surprised at how many I hadn’t heard of. As soon as I saw Starship Troopers I knew Stranger had to come soon!
Really fun video!
Kinda fits into our conversation about AI i think… thanks for watching!
I've tried reading Dhalgren several times. Managed to get to the middle of the book and simply could not continue. It's an impressive web of narrative but it gets to the point where the brain is like, what the heck are we doing here?😅
I have been reading and collecting SF for over 50 years, and I got....8 points!
Seems controversial is not a sub-genre I care for. Heinlein is the only author on the list that I've read more than one book. Most of them his less (kinda) controversial juveniles.
Fun list, even if it's a bunch of books and authors that just aren't for me.
Come on - read all of those. At least 20 of those are very good to brilliant; only 2-3 are garbage, and even those are worth reading to get into the heads of those who idolize them,
Hey, they arent for everyone. I know I dont want to read all the books on this list but I did think it was a fun experiment…
@secretsauceofstorycraft oh, I agree it's a fun experiment. I just found it funny that I had read so few of them! I like to think I'm well read but lots of top 10 lists have books I haven't read.
You MUST read A Clockwork Orange
I will have to i think…. 😆
@@secretsauceofstorycraft No, think _after_ you read it 😀
@@bazoo513 Agreed. It's a very good book.
Obviously, I misread our host's answer, now that I see it again.
Gravity's Rainbow is not science fiction, so most viewers are off the hook. It is an exceptionally difficult and long, post-modern read; I can only recommend it to fellow English majors.
Wow! 🤯 how did it end up on the list?? Im not sure
I’m a recovering English major. I have read Gravity’s Rainbow. I agree: best for English majors! But The Crying of Lot 49 is for everyone and it’s short. And funny!
@@MrElfOwl True and true.
I'm not an English Major™ and I just finished my fourth reread since 1973.
@@secretsauceofstorycraft Because artificial intelligence too often yields natural stupidity.
I was very taken aback by one passage in Gateway. The main character, out of misplaced jealousy, beats his girlfriend, and she forgives him! That takes place late in the novel so I did finish it, but that just really upset me.
I get this feeling that AI thinks "controversial" and "well-known" are synonyms.
Haha maybe 🤔 but is that #1 the most “well known” scifi book? I am not sure I would say so. But i understand what you mean. Maybe just books people publically debate??
@@secretsauceofstorycraft Because AI is very good at collation and absolutely clueless at analysis and synthesis.
I remembered a movie Crash 2004 and thought they might be connected when I looked it there was also a Crash in 1996 that was based on the book.
I didnt know there was a movie based on it
David Cronenberg made a brilliant movie of "Crash," I higly recommend it.
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Really interesting topic
Thanks! 😊
Interesting topic! I've read 19, own 24, for a total of 43. I don't think I would consider 27-30 controversial. I certainly would never put Battlefield Earth at #3. But I very much enjoyed your discussion of the books!
Thanks for watching! I agree the numbers are very out of order
I don't think "When Gravity Fails' is controversial unless you're Islamophobic. I loved all three books in this series. Besides, how can an author nicknamed 'Piglet' write controversially? It defies logic. Thanks for an interesting list!
Yep, that's the point - say one positive word about Islam (e.g. that we got practically all foundations for European scientific revolution and Enlightenment, from Indian math to Greek philosophy and medicine to Arab astronomy via Arabs of Al Andalus), and you are worse than controversial to at least 50% Americans.
I had no idea he was nicknamed piglet!!! Hahaha thats incredible! I agree i dont think that book was very controversial.
Well, I own 9 of these and have read 10 (I’ve also read the first book only in the Gene Wolfe series). Of the ones I’ve read, I don’t think any are really controversial except “Stranger in a Strange Land”; and any controversy about that has probably changed in nature since it was first published in 1961. But you don’t need to be frightened of reading it: it makes easy enough reading, not stressful at all. The first two-thirds of it makes quite a good story; the last third is relatively disappointing but still somewhat readable.
Probably the ones on this list that I haven’t read are more controversial than the ones I have read: I’m not particularly attracted to controversial fiction.
Mind you, controversy is a rather vague concept. I suppose it just means that there are differences of opinion about the book; and is there any book about which there are no differences of opinion? You just have to look at Goodreads to see that ANY book is rated five stars by some and one star by others.
This is a good point!! I agree that controversial is determined by the reader…. Thats why asking chatgpt and others was so interesting 🤔 i plan to read stranger in strange land soon…. I have been putting it off far too long. Thanks for the encouragement!
This was both a really good idea, and a really good implementation.
Thank you!! 😊
I don't know what I expected. It is fair to say that I haven't think which books would be controversial. Books that I read from this list didn't feel that controversial to me. Perhaps I don't view exploration of an edgy topic controversial... for me author must push certain agenda within the book to feel controversial. That's me, I must confess that I do not know what makes book controversial? Reception of the book by the public, but popularity, niche, timing... sometimes it seems that controversies jump out of nowhere. Everything was fine and "BOOM!", wild controversy appeared. Some books are controversial, and some just got bad (?) reputation. Well, anyways, I got only 15 points but Stranger in a Strange Land, Crush, Sparrow and Onyx and Crake are on my TBR.
Haha 😆 i dont know what i expected either. But Its fun to talk about… because i kinda agree lots of these didbt feel that controversial to me--Which is why I decided to make this video. Thanks for noticing and starting this conversation!
That was fun! I only scored 8 1/2. I gave myself 1/2 point for making it thru half of 1Q84. That book should be controversial for how many readers it bored to death 😂
Hahah!
Fantastic video Whitney. So many books I've never heard of. Now i want to read some of them lol
Have fun! 👾
It’s funny that AI doesn’t think AI is controversial. It didn’t seem to be a theme in any of these books… and it’s certainly been a topic written about for a long time.
Odd. I got 39 points. I'm not sure, as you don't say, where these 'this book is listed as controversial because...' explanations comes from but all those purported reasons don't seem to qualify. I've never encountered a fiction book that was controversial, let alone a SciFi book that's controversial. I don't see how that's possible. Fiction, and SF in particular should be exploratory in nature, which by definition then must be utterly inclusive. Of course I could see how some of these could be considered off-putting or unappetizing for some people, but that has more to do with the person rather than the text itself. In fact, I'd argue that soem of these should be required reading...
Its interesting to see what was on the list according to these AI…. At least thats what i thought….lots of these werent that controversial but some were…
@@secretsauceofstorycraft Indeed. But isn't "controversial" an entirely subjective construct? I'm sure I've read things I consider controversial that others may not, and I know for a fact that I've read things that I deem utterly non-controversial that make others blush or grimace... For myself, a voracious reader, I've only once in my life encountered reading something where I was taken aback and had to pause. And it wasn't even SciFi, it was Ellis' American Psycho. But: I was afterwards elated with the fact that something textual could so affect me. And thus happy for the experience...
@@steved1135 absolutely! The definition of controversial is entirely subjective! Thats why when I got this list while playing around with chatgpt, I knew had to make this video. Where did they get this list and the reasons? Was it internet bloggers, reviewers? A compliation? I have no idea. 🤷🏼♀️ i certaintly wouldnt have made this list this way. I also hear you when you say you havent read a “controversial” books because as science fiction fans - i think most of us not only like, but value, books that play with challenging and new ideas. It is after all why it is my favorite genre! Im glad u feel that way too
Long time subscriber, first time commenter.
Interesting topic, but I’m unsure about the definition used here for “controversial.”
Yes, many were for sure, but the AI calling a book controversial because of what it “explores, “images”, or raises “ethical questions,” is misleading. These are topics that surround us as a species, or might even deal with in daily living.
To me these incorrect definitions might work towards potential readers choosing not to read a certain book.
Kudos to you for actually defining “controversial” and questing the definition as I have.
I hope this is a successful video for you. Unique and “controversial.”
Thanks for commenting! I’m glad you understood that I dont necessarily agree with this list but do like that it has started some great discussions here! I so think controversial is subjective. And might even go as far as to say those things that spark debate are the reason I read and like sci fi as a genre. Thanks for contributing… nice to chat!
Funny concept! Cool list though 💻
Thanks! 😊
1984 ends up be controversial because people miss that it's a total anti fascist/communist work ... unless one lives in a fascist or communist/socialist society, where they correctly identified it as being critical of them. Which make it controversial in like half the world? Thanks for the reviews. I haven't read most of these and with this review, I'm probably gonna avoid them.
No "allegedly" about founding Scientology. He did.
preachin to the choir! --remember the chatgpt or gemini write those paragraphs….
In The Iron Dream, Norman Spinrad posits an alternate world in which Adolph Hitler does not go into politics, he emigrates to the United States where he supports himself doing illustrations for SF magazines. His English, then, gets good enough that he writes a book embodying the Iron Dream. In other words, the book is a piece of fiction written by a fictional character. I have to give Spinrad credit for inhabiting Hitler's mind most convincingly. So convincingly, in fact, the I that my stomach churns, remembering it. Every sentence sounds like something Hitler would say. It is a book I think everybody should have read but I hesitate to recommend that you read it.
I first read it in German (were, for a while, it was quasi-banned as "endangering young people", i.e. it could only be sold legally under the counter), and the translation is rather flat. The original is much better. Of course, in German, Hitlers Germanisms don't show...
With all due respect.. To say that Left Hand of Darkness explores the idea of gender roles as a social construct is just wrong. The people on the planet Winter very clearly lack the biological distictions we on earth have between men and women. The people on Winter never have sexual desires outsides of specific time-lapses. It's specifically these biological conditions that give way to explain why the people on Winter behave like they do. Or am I missing something? Is the book not exploring the opposite? How our social behaviour is so deeply rooted in our biological differencies? I just so often hear people give this specific book attributes it shouldn't have. I love the book btw.
Strongly recommend extra-strength coffee if you go with Stranger in a Strange Land. It is v tedious.
Ooof 😅 i will def take your advice on that!
You seemed to ask for english speaking authors only. I would like to mention "We" by Jewgenji Semjatin, "Roadside Picnic" by the Strugatzki Brothers, "The futurological Congress" by Stanislav Lem, "Blindness" byJose Saramago, "War with the newts" by Karel Capek.
I didnt specify that in my ask but these are good points!! Especially WE
Glad you mentioned "We". It predates 1984 with very similar plot structure.
"Roadside Picnic" is superb. Is it controversial? Maybe the sacrifice at the end would make it so.
26 points(mostly from owning) . I guess I better get reading!
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Even deciding what is and isn’t controversial, is controversial. You did well with a difficult subject… (though of course, we can credit/blame Chat GPT for the list).
Haha 😆 thank you for those kind words I appreciate!
Gravity's Rainbow is my all-time favorite novel; I've read it more times than I can count and have sections virtually memorized. It helps to read it with one of the many GR guides out there, but the idea that this candidate for a Pulitzer is "unreadable" (it won the National Book Award) is an absurd legend. And it's postmodern historical metafiction, not sci-fi.
Hard to read (which GR is unless you're an academic who can smother difficult prose) is not synonymous with unreadable; James Joyce's Finnegan's Wake might be technically (and intentionally) unreadable as a novel or story. GR's broad story arc is actually pretty straightforward and its anti-military industrial complex themes are transparent.
Controversial it is, though. Pedophilia, coprophilia, sadomasochism, all yield some scenes which are stomach turning. It ends at the last delta-t before a nuclear apocalypse.
I wonder where personal responsibility begins. If you were warned not to walk through an incredibly dangerous slum at night and yet you did, thinking "It's not my fault if someone attacks me, that's on them!", would it then be wrong for people to blame you for what happened to you? Would you not at some point say to yourself ”Maybe I should have listened..."?
The 1961 version is a much more entertaining and relevant book.
We're talking Stranger in a Strange Land here.
I havent read it….. and context matters….so im not sure i can answer. I think my version is the newer cover - will keep different versions in mind
I got a score of 9. Anything by Bradbury is worth reading. I've been chipping away at his short stories foor decades. Poetic and creepy.
🔥 This is true! Lots if these books are worth reading. Thanks for commenting
The controversy about Fahrenheit 451 is whether it's about censorship; the author famously insisted that it was not.
Had no idea
@@secretsauceofstorycraft yes, if I remember correctly, Bradbury said it was more about the deleterious effects of TV/mass media. You might recall the wall-sized interactive TVs (TV coming into vogue at the time it was written), acting as a sort of opiate of the masses, and in so doing, replaced the written word.
Any book that talks about a topic outside the box of what people think of as normal will be seen as controversial. So, whether it is controversial is is matter of perspective; IMNSHO most of these books listed as controversial is down to a lack of education in history/psychology/sociology/economics or other subject.
17:55 - Not surprising at all. If the book promotes freedom, equality (economic and gender), knowledge, it will be "controversial" to the powers that are currently taking control of the US (and that are, sadly, very strong elsewhere, too.)
Chat TP : Time Enough For Love (Heinlein) should be #1 and #2. Chthon (Piers Anthony) deserves a place.
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Talking about Heinlein, "Farnham's Freehold" is plenty of controversial, but (rightfully) largely forgotten.
Fantastic idea and great video, Whitney!
Maybe I’m just jaded, but I find controversial books, especially banned or challenged books are usually the most interesting.
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After some thought I think these AIs need more training. Did they even consider Heinlein’s Time Enough for Love?
Also, I wouldn’t consider Gravity’s Rainbow or Atlas Shrugged to be science fiction, but I guess it’s debatable.
I have most of them somewhere in storage and have read all except Hubbard. I wasted 2 hours of my childhood on the movie version of Battlefield Earth. Ugh.
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Haha thanks! I agree! If i made the list it would probably be my favorites list as i love books that play with new or challenging ideas
I havent tackled hubbard yet- not sure i want to
I read The Sparrow also as a recommendation from AI funny enough. Loved it! Definitely agree with the #1 book, very disturbing.
Havent read #1 yet! Plan to when I get up the time… maybe after the holidays
There was one book...Forever War I think it was...where you mentioned it was controversial because of it's anti war message. I feel like every book about war and violence should be anti!
The empire never ended…
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Nor is the Ayn Rand SF. And although I've read it (youthful indiscretion) the only controversy is why so many people worship it.
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Stranger in a Strange Land is a great read.
Cant wait to find out!
I think much of the "controversy" attributed to Stranger in a Strange Land these days is due to some of the 1950s era societal norms that creep into the book. While Heinlein was considered something of a radical in his day, our view from over 60 years later can make him appear somewhat sexist, while his negative views on organized religion and big government are much less controversial these days.
This gave me some interesting thoughts, so first off thank you for the video. I have two substantial critiques of your takes (and I agree with most of your arguments so 2 out 30 isn't a lot).
First off I think you badly miss the mark with Fahrenheit 451. It's not a book about censorship, though this is a common reading of it. The book is actually about how easily consumable (and ultimately empty) entertainment media destroys literacy, degrades human thought, and ultimately leads society to a bad place. Don't feel bad if you didn't get that out of it, it's often not even taught that way in a school or even university setting, but in this case we have a pretty clear statement from Bradbury himself, the book is about how TV destroyed literacy. This is controversial but coming from today, 2024, it's hard not to see that we are indeed in the middle of a decline of literacy and that we are at the same time in an era of easily accessible, often near-free, entertainment in various forms available for anyone to consume. Correlation is not causation but I think an argument for causation can be made.
Second off, the reason 1984 is controversial is because the book argues that through a combination of fear and violence on the one hand, and information control on the other, you can actually get people to betray not just their friends and families but themselves. You can get people to believe in nonsense, in obvious untruths, and in directly contradictory things. And not just get them to repeat these things but to actually believe they are true. In many ways Eric Blair was responding to the optimism of many 1800's authors and thinkers that thought if we get enough education, and enough material progress, we can all be a society of intelligent rational beings that choose their own fate, that know the world around them, etc. However in the first half of the 20th century there were a number of works that argued in the other direction and 1984 was one of them. It's controversial because it posits that we're not really all that rational, and that the way our minds work can be manipulated by external factors. In this regard it's similar to the arguments put forth in Huxley's "Brave New World", and Evegeniy Zamyatin's "We". I would even agree with Postman's comment (from "Amusing Ourselves to Death") that Huxley makes the same argument, but instead of fear and violence plus information control, it can be done through pleasure and entertainment plus information control. So the controversy of 1984 is this; you can be made to believe that your significant other whom you've lived with for several years and have children with is an enemy spy, a horrible person, and not the person you thought they were, even with no objective first hand evidence of any of it. Clearly this isn't universally agreed upon, and the argument between optimists and pessimists about the future continues to this day.
Sorry for the giant essay.
Wow thanks for this - I really appreciate you taking the time to write all that out - you’ve given me a lot to think about!
The problem with the word controversial is that all it requires is two opposing opinions, regardless of the validity of said opinions. After all, if half the world are flat earth ears, a book that describes the earth as spherical will be “controversial”, even though the only reason for it is the lack of education or logic on one of the two sides. Because of this, pure science is often “controversial”, even though the dogma of religion that is exposed often later recedes.
So, I don’t find this label as all that meaningful, even though it is often used to drive sales.
That said, if an author posits a moral stance at odds with prevailing societal norms, I suppose that fits the label, gut is still very specific to the time and culture into which a book is published. Looking at books from another time period, some would have been controversial when published, but are less so now, due to the shifting of cultural norms over time. Other books may not have been controversial when they were published, but are now considered so because, again, of shifting societal norms.
Thanks for the video.
Have not read Neuropath but have read his Second Apocalypse when he had an R. Imagine Paul Atredies leading the Second Crusade. They are pretty graphic as Bakker just gets in your head and can write beautifully. He also riffs on Tolkein making Moria realy terrifying. This is on my someday list.
Stranger starts interesting then around 2/3 in he goes off the rails.
Not sure why The Stand is there but agree it is overly long with an unsatisfying ending.
Am reading Starship Troopers now and first impression is the social critique is a little less obvious than in the movie.
Ooh thanks for the info! I still havent decided if I’m going to read neuropath. I dont know why the stand was on there either. Clearly AI doesnt know what the heck….But glad you are reading Starship troopers- i agree with your assessment!
Read Battlefield Earth. It is brilliant.
So I guess you haven't seen the "Crash" movie adaptation, directed by David Cronenberg.
Nope. 🙂↔️ havent.
I've read almost all of these and notice you do not own / have not read many in my Top 10. Altered Carbon (a trilogy with Broken Angels and Woken Furies) has great characters, plot and ideas. The Stand is my fave King book - good vs evil. I read Stranger in a Strange Land in 9th grade and man was it powerful. Atlas Shrugged - loved it but it's not science fiction as such. The Valis trilogy is mind blowing, inventive, questioning - near perfect. Though not "controversial" I could not finish Crash, Dahlgren or Gravity's Rainbow. When you have to make and refer to notes just to keep up with the "plot" that's too much work. Merry Christmas!
47/60. Does that say I have a high tolerance for the controversial and nasty 😈🤣?
I only scored 7 points. I guess my books aren't very controversial.
Thats not a bad thing!
I think that LLNs will produce a credible ranking by collating reviews and star ratings on online bookstores and sites like Goodreads - "refining" it would depend on one's precise definition of controversy.
While at least two books on this list are worthless per se, it is still good to read them in order to get a better idea of those who adore them. Similar with those we tried to read and didn't "click" with them - for me, for example, Wolfe. Perhaps I will once summon the strength to plow all the way through the series and discover it was worth it. Or Liu Cixin - I found the SciFi "meat" of it tedious, but the depiction of the Cultural Revolution most interesting (and disturbing, of course).
I would be very disappointed if masterpieces like _Nineteen Eighty Four, Handmaid's Tale, Fahrenheight 452_ or _Left Hand of Darkness_ were not on the list. But let's not forget _Space Merchants, Brave New World_ or _Animal Farm._ Finally, the grand-daddy of political distopia, _We_ by Yevgeny Zamyatin, certainly controversial as hell (its first print in Russia was 65 years after he wrote it!) is probably missing here because too few people read it.
Yes i agree WE should have been on here!!
It's this kind of thing that proves that the word "intelligence" in AI is misplaced. They aren't really intelligent. I'm not sure what I'd define as controversy but it isn't a lot of these. I got 25 points - I would have got more but I DNF'd a few of these and got rid of a couple of others because I didn't want to keep them.
I have read Gravity's Rainbow - I'd argue it isn't SF in any real way. It's a hard read but not unreadable, it has some pretty graphic stuff in it, and when you get to the end you realise Pynchon has written it as a massive practical joke on the reader. I like Pynchon as a writer and I'd much prefer to read his work, than Wolfe's or Delaney's - all of them writing postmodern work that is deliberately difficult to read.
Finally , Margaret Attwood hates it when people describe her work as Science Fiction, so this list would make her pretty cranky :)
I agree with you! This list is highly contentious- i would not have put it together this way. Thought it was interesting…. And despite atwood’s feelings her work speaks for itself luckily….
Great video idea! 🙌
I got 27 points, I think.
Stranger in a Strange Land was a miss for me. Very much heavy-handed; it feels like the author is inserting himself and spewing his political agenda. But that’s just my opinion. Hope you enjoy it more than I did.
Makes me worried i wont like it either
You have a point about Stranger. The "wise old man" insert is very common in Heinlein's writing, and he definitely spends a lot of time discussing issues of morality, education, personal responsibility and the role of government in his books.
@@michaeljdauben Yes, I agree, these are all interesting and important topics, but how he does it in Stranger (preaching), does not work for me. I much prefer, for example, LeGuin's more subtle, nuanced approach. But it's likely just me, he is Big 3 for a reason.
Using ChatGPT to pick the most controversial sci-fi books is such a cool idea! Some of these picks really make you think. I wonder what other titles could’ve made the list - time to start a debate in the comments!
Haha 🤣 yeah.
20:03 - Oh, come on, is there _anyone_ who actually likes this garbage? It is simply a very poor, bloated attempt at space opera.
You should have asked the AIs whether they understand the meaning of “controversial” 😏
Haha i agree!!! Ahoulda thought of that
I think i scored 36. I don't know that many of these are really controversial, but as you say, perhaps that doesn't mean what I think it means! Or perhaps chatgpt doesn't know shit! 😀
I pick the latter! Thanks for watchibg
Huh. "Lord of Light" is undoubtedly thought provoking in many ways, philosophical, ideological, theological, etc. That is a lot of "al" ending big words.
Zelazny throws a major wrench in. We are not sure if the main character is "The Lord of Light". Because while Sam, the main character, teaches his religious preference, he does not completely believe in it. He uses it towards achieving his own, and important, ends.
But, his prize pupil fully embraces Sam's teachings and does realize the religious fulfillment that somewhat eludes Sam. He is killed defending Sam. Sam considers this man "The Lord of Light", of a real, working religion, who nearly overcomes the super science confronting him.
At least that is what I got out of this part of the novel!🙂
🔥 looks like this book has been very though provoking for you. That is good. 👍🏻
I agree with your summary… there is so much more to the book as well….
@@secretsauceofstorycraft I had to read it a couple of times!
Very cleaver
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From my views of many of the books, it seems like AI has a difficult time differentiating between dark and controversial. Are there really sane people who argue that n@zism or distopias are a good thing? 🤔
I dont know…. But this is good point
I can't support people that use AI in an shape or form.
Do what you think is right 👍🏻
50
Wow!!! 🤯
If you want to know why Fahrenheit 451 is still relevant today, update your current events regarding prime minister Ken Starmers assault on free speech and thought in Great Britain now.
I am not up to date…