The cannons are actually culverin's which had a much greater ratio of barrel length to shot size making them less powerful and slower firing than a regular cannon but with the advantage of superior accuracy and range. Francis Drake's favourite tactic against the more powerful Spanish ships was to equip his vessels with culverin's and use them to pick off the Spanish from a distance beyond which their cannons could return fire. William Adams (Blackthorne) served under Drake in the battle against the Spanish Armada in 1588 so he would have been well acquainted with their use.
The canon scene is complete nonsense and typical muh English Naval Warfare w_a_n_k_e_r_y. Culverin's wasn't some English only thing, they literally have to use a borrowed word to describe them. The Portuguese had been using that type of canon for years in the region, they were called Esperas. Yet in this series they have to put that line in about the Portuguese not being able to hit anything with their canons (including a castle, let that sink in) even though you can fire an arrow at the distance the scene is depicting the target to be at, because all the Portuguese can do in this series is twirl their mustaches while Blacktorne, being an Englishman, can practically walk on water. And the Japanese were all born yesterday, getting their minds blown by this amazing new technology they've been seeing for years, and the European intermediaries between us and China that first arrived on a Chinese junk have a base of operations in China??? M-MASAKA!! :O
I think this show benefits from having the entire episode center around 1-2 main characters rather than cycling through all of them. We didn't see the regents at all and only saw Toranaga for one scene and I think the overall episode was better for it.
Not going to lie, the way Blackthorn’s been developed so far it doesn’t seem like he would care all that much if people he didn’t know would die due to his failure, let alone kill himself for them
Blackthorne's seppuku attempt was the scene I have always most cherished from the Shogun novel and 80's series. I recall reading that passage over and over again. The event, and the following moments, were depicted so powerfully and beautifully, I feel to leave it out is almost unforgivable, except for the fact that everything else about this series is fucking awesome.
Thank god I'm not the only one who think that Fuji and Blackthorne have more chemistry than Mariko and Blackthorne. I think it because the way that Anna Sawai chose to potrayed Mariko, she always have a cold and distance expression on her face even when she is having a heart to heart with Blackthorne. In contrast the actress who played Fuji displayed a wide range of emotion and the scene that she recive a pistol from blackthorne and in return she gave him her family sword I truly see something special spark between the two in contrass to every scene of Mariko and Blackthrone.
On Episode 4: The time sequence should have been stretched by showing that certain (longer) times have lapsed. Certainly the "visit in the night" was jarring and needed some lead-in. Come on, Blackthorne did not even give a hint of romantic interest in her, to her and at all times, was entirely prim, proper and respectable to her. And Buntaro (and the father of her child) just died (in Mariko's mind). That could have been handled better. Say, like a short scene showing the progress of the current winter. Certainly, it was not a spur of the moment consideration for both of them in the Clavell's book; it was a slow burn, verbal first.
Enjoying these reviews as I myself eagerly await each episode every week, I totally agree with your concerns regarding the pace of the show and certain pieces being missed out. Also the part regarding the pistols that Blackthorne is shown to be using you are correct they appear to be 1801 Pattern Royal Navy Sea Service Flintlock Pistols although I think all things considered to the untrained eye they don't look too out of place. But overall really enjoying these episodes and reviews. 👍
@@noahhorn9382 There is an intimate scene in the most recent episode but the scenes lighting is quite dark so the nudity isn't really that bad all things considers, I suppose in your case it more up to your discretion.
The cast is insanely good, and the show is a masterpiece. But I have to mention _Tadanobu Asano_ : he is killing as Yabu... His facial expressions in the end of this episode l, are priceless
Yabushige’s facial expression is being upstaged by those of Omi, though. The series seems to be setting up that the manipulators par excellence are Toranaga and Omi.
@@alesh2275 They ruined Omi, turning him into a little weasel, obviously dominated by his Lady Macbeth. Completely different from the 1980 version. I guess it's subjective which version you'd like.
I too haven't really been feeling Omi in this adaptation. Omi in the 1980 series was a powerful presence. In this one he seems, I don't know... weaker, less forceful. Significantly overshadowed by the characters around him. I don't think they picked the right actor for him. But also the material they've been giving him hasn't been as good. They cut out a lot of the dialogue that strengthened his character. For example in his early confrontation with Blackthorne.
I think the one drawback of a serialized adaptation is that the pacing requires there be a conflict, climax and denouement - and a lead in during every episode of a 10 part series - regardless of how the book is arranged.
Agreed. If I hadn't read the book, I'd feel like the characters don't develop. As is it doesn't feel earned, but I pretend that everything I know from the book is just happening in the background. Really feels like this is a miss on the show.
Pretty much any adaptation from book that is over 1000 pages is going to have to cut something somewhere. I am liking Lady Fuji as she is being played.....you have to have sympathy for the character....and her raw emotion is understandable. But I'm also liking Mariko as well. She is a tough, resilient, as well as brilliant. She would not wear her heart on her sleeve......the eight fold fence indeed
Nah, I wholeheartedly disagree with your take on Mariko. If ever, the novel’s portrayal of Mariko is the weaker one, and the conflict between Hosokawa Gracia’s Catholicism and her duties as samurai should take center stage. As Gracia/Mariko how can you be so likeable towards Blackthorne when you see in him a threat to your religion? Initially guarded, then gradually opening up would be the logical expectation.
@@TheShogunateI do think it’s very hard to not constantly noticing differences to the previous iteration of the same story when you have just finished the book and the original tv adaptation so recently.
Killing and entire detachment of messagers is an act of war and has always met with such historical so while her line was for dramatic effect it was also to emphasize that fact and turning point.
I think I agree with everything you said. It's been a while since I've watched the 1980 adaptation or read the book, so I forgot about the learning Japanese part, but I felt something was amiss and now it makes sense. I do feel like we may get a "Sekigahara" episode towards the end of the series after watching this episode. I'm not getting my hopes up too much yet, but I doubt they'd spend all their budget on the final scene of episode 4. Fingers crossed! I must say I really liked the scene with Blackthorne watching the rain fall in his zen garden, the cinematography was just perfect (and i say this as someone who watched the show on a tablet)
Really love Moeka Hoshi (Fuji actress), glad she land this role. I just realized in this show that actor who play as Taiko also play as Hideyoshi in NHK Taiga Drama called "Sanada Maru". 😂
I love the end with cannons. To see them get blown up to bits is such a new perspective to see cannons instead of a explosion on the ground and mem just falling over. And to have them have i think around 20 navel cannons is such a game changer. Overall i love this epsideo as a person who did not seen or read the orginal shogun. Having balckhorn mumble out of the siege of Malta dose bring out the history buff in me
@@gbautista100 exactly! The only time I could remember cannons having a gorely depiction was the patriot with losing a leg or having your head torn off.......which somehow affected one person. Shrapnel would scar skin and cloths off but this was horror with a gorely spectacle.
As someone who didn't read the book, the issues you bring up didn't really bother me while I was watching. But it is good to know what was changed from the book to the show
I agree, I haven’t read the book yet and none of the critiques or concerns in these reviews have crossed my mind. I couldn’t say how it fairs as an adaptation of the book, but as a show I wouldn’t consider it to have bad pacing, or any problems with the characterization of Mariko and Toranaga, and I would never have guessed there was a missing piece to Blackthorn’s character development.
Thankfully I have not read the book yet (I plan to AFTER the series is over) since it sounds like they are starting to deviate from it. But I see that as a good thing because it sounds like, if you HAVE read the book you may be too distracted by these deviations to truly enjoy it? Case in point, seeing other streamers talk about this episode who may have not read the book, you get an entirely different reaction.Personally, I'm loving this series and have managed to talk several friends into watching it as well. Definitely one of the best TV series I've seen in a long while...but I also definitely plan to read the book as the show has peaked my interest in the original story
You will enjoy the book, no two ways about it. But books and film are two very different story telling mediums and one will never match the other, or so seldom it doesn't even make sense to fret over it. Clavell knew his Japanese culture, though having been a Japanese POW during WW2 he saw a perhaps even crueller and death admiring version in his own life. Anyway, this is a work of fiction so there is no point in getting wound up over infinite historical accuracy.
For me having read the book increases my enjoyment of the show a lot as it adds a lot of depth and context to a lot of what’s going on. I’m not hung up on deviations but I do lament the stuff that’s cut for time.
My suspicion is Blackthorne’s attempted seppuku is shifted later for pacing. But we’ll see seems too important to be left out but perhaps too early in the shows pacing to do here.
It also would have felt very out of place if it happened this episode. At the start he was pressuring them too be able too leave the Japans and then by the End of the Episode he would have died for a couple of insignificant villagers.
I think careful optimism is appropriate in this situation. If Godzilla Minus One is any indication, it's that the Japanese are currently very trustworthy when it comes to making good movies, and while this isn't being made by a Japanese studio, it definitely has a strong influence from prominent Japanese voices, the obvious one being Sanada. Though, I haven't seen this series, the previous adaptation, read the book, or am particularly interested in Sengoku/Edo period history. My true love is the Heian and the couple of centuries before and after and the literature that came out of them so please take my opinions with the level of salt appropriate to them.
The thing is, this series isn't a Japanese production. While there are some Japanese involved in the production and Japanese actors, it's not being produced by a Japanese studio so comparing it to Godzilla Minus One isn't really an apt comparison.
I think the pictures look so off, as if Westerners did them with the participation of a few Yamato in somewhere outside Japan. Which I guess is the case. I like the original better, anytime.
Great review. I'm 50yo, I read this book as a teenager and I loved it. This being said, I'm enjoying this series thus far, maybe because I can't remember the detail from Clavell's book. I love your added knowledge about Japanese culture at that time. Looking forward to ep 5. Thanks.
This is a big reason the 1980 version did put the focus on Blackthorne. You can't do Shogun as a novel justice with so few episodes, if you try to cram it all in.
I feel like this is your best review to date. While I don't fully agree with all of your opinions on this episode, I am enjoying your comments and I feel like you are sticking much closer to source material than in previous episodes where you tended to go down some historical comparisons at times. Very well done!!!
Have not read book or seen previous shogun. Really enjoying this adaptation its very awesome. Looking forward to the coming episodes. The atmosphere is surreal. They to do this so well. Really appreciate when you give insight as to locations, history and details where they perhaps took artistic liberties.
Can anyone else confirm or deny this…but this show is a mini series with only 10 episodes planned. So I think due to this, some story elements have been rushed in order to get to the important moments.
First, the online recaps on the episodes, dope. But I must say one thing I belive you are a little short sited on. The part where Mariko says this is war. I believe for dramatic purposes that was expressed, but also for Ishida to respond to show strength. Ishida already thinks Yabushige has betrayed him. So if he finds out that his envoy was killed in the territory of yabushige. This would be grounds for strong retaliation.
Yes, depiction of Fuji-sama is wonderful so far! The actress is so expressive with relatively little dialogue: you feel what her character’s feeling moreso than any other in the show so far.
We will see if they pick up the skill of the Japanese to handle musket and musket tactics in the sengoku jidai correctly. For people with no deeper knowledge of this, will be an surprise how advanced Japan was in this regards. I also hope we see Samurai on horse with yari. Hoping they will lift some troupes about japanese warfare.
I didn't see the 80ies miniseries. I tried watching it a week ago (don't remember, could be it wasn't even my first attempt), but found it impossible to watch. I must also say that I wouldn't have bought the idea of Blackthorn wanting to attempt seppuku (I am talking about a TV series, not the book). For me, it would have felt too soon, he doesn't seem to be very immersed in Japanese culture yet. He also clearly still wants to go home and free his crew and isn't attached to villagers in any way. In the TV series, from the beginning and at least till now he is clearly depicted as the one who always survives. And he has neither seen any seppuku nor heard the details. I don't know why I feel so differently from what seems like everybody in this comment section, but I really like all the Mariko and Blackthorne scenes and how she is slowly warming up, smiling more openly etc (but yes I like Fuji too). In the 1980 series, all the women looked, had facial expressions and behaved like we are used to imagining geishas do. Mariko is refreshingly different from this stereotype, Fuji not so much.
Thank god someone has some sense they are literally criticizing Mariko for not being happy and cheerful and sometimes is saying that she has no personality which is really not true at all and as we see in these episodes she is really much growing and has a really good relationship with Blackthorn and they have to understand that she is not going to be instantly be cheerful and happy all the time the situations around are intense and serious so she would be serious sometimes she also shown her brave, kindness and cheerful side sometimes when it's needed and her and blackthorn have some good chemistry than Fuji and blackthorn.
I certainly appreciate your reviews immensely as I've said repeatedly, and will continue to say! They have been and continue to be invaluable in helping me to determine if I will spend the time and finances to support this series. Unfortunately, as much as I had hoped wouldn't happen, each review continues to maintain and to some degree even strengthen and give credence to the fears I've expressed prior. As the episodes continue to air, hopefully those fears will be erased or mitigated, but thus far they haven't. I'm even more saddened to hear that despite the claim that they were going to be as historically accurate as was possible, several things are just not that easily could have been. Thank you very much Shogunate, as always, for providing these extraordinary reviews and providing your invaluable insight, you are a true treasure of the community!
I feel they’re not developing the characters very well. Up to now, I think the original TV serial was vastly better in regard to the characters. This new version is much better in terms of how it looks. I'd describe it as a meal that looks wonderful and is beautifully presented but doesn’t meet expectations in taste because key ingredients are missing.
I’m glad I read the book first. The movie seems to only touch the surface of or even skips over some very significant parts. I understand movies need to condense a story, but some of my favorite parts were completely left out. Agree that Mariko seemed too cool mannnered towards Blackthorn and Fuji and Blackthorn were warmer towards one another than in the book. Wish they hadn’t left out Blackthorn trying to protect the village people by attempting Seppuku. It showed how much he values innocent lives.
5:40 I was actually rooting for Blackthorne + Fuji (I haven't read the book). The connection was beautiful in an unplanned / unexpected way and that's usually the best type of (onscreen) connection as it doesn't feel like the viewer is being led into it.
I agree with some of your views, especially where it comes to Blackthorne's seppuku attempt which is where he actually begins to see what it means to be Samurai, but not sure what is "silly" about Mariko saying that killing Jozen would cause war. This was not just some dispute between two Samurai of equal rank. First of all you have a lower ranking Samurai killing a Samurai of higher rank, but more importantly, Jozen was there in an official capacity, representing the Council. Killing him could easily be used as a pretext for war as it could be considered an attack on the Council itself.
her "exposition" is basically there to spoonfeed "modern audiences" who can't do "nuanced" or think for themselves. quite a sad state of affairs when your production feels the requirement to do that.
I love that I haven't read the book or watched the 1980 series. Coming in with no knowledge appears to be a big benefit with all the bellyaching I see here in the comments. I mean, come on...the book is always better than the show/movie. If it's true for Lords of the Rings even then it's true for everything. This whole story has to be told in 10 hours, it cannot hit everyone's favorite character development points from the book. Also the "Fuji has more chemistry with Blackthorne than Mariko" is completely nonsensical. Did we watch the same show? Blackthorne and Mariko are constantly conversing, sharing sly smiles as he is trying to learn Japanese pronunciation, she opens up to him as they are conversing at night when he goes to take a bath and he returns that vulnerability by being understanding and complimentary. As for Fuji he gave her a gun to (1) protect him if she needs to and to (2) thank her for running his house. That's it. He actively is trying to shoe her away in the scenes beforehand. That anyone could think there is more chemistry between him and Fuji makes me wonder if they are watching closely or just bemoaning the fact that the show skipped their favorite book parts.
Having been around for the 1980 miniseries and loved it. I am very impressed with this too, and they seem very similar in their initial critical reactions.
Man, I just love your reviews. It’s so nice to see honest reviews that don’t just lavish praise when it’s not deserved. Everywhere I look people are falling over themselves to say how good this series is. To me, the 1980 one still is a masterpiece compared to this one. This episode definitely felt rushed, lacking, and poorly acted out by Mariko and Anjin. Fuji was amazing though.
I think he means the uncritical lavish praise it garnered from most quarters, when as shown by this episodes it definitely has some flaws compared to the 80s version.
@@steveday6671that’s my issue with comparing two things, you will always find flaws. the criticism is valid, but doesn’t invalidate others praise or enjoyment. feels weird in my opinion.
@@rebllll criticism is weird? all art is critiqued by the viewer or listener. and at no point did the poster say anything was invalid they just said it was nice to see a real critique rather than just "it's amazing" which it very much isnt. its decent but has many flaws, like the video gameish use of the cgi to mask they didnt build proper sets or film on location in Japan.
It definitely deserves praise. There are many things about it that are incredibly well done. But many of us also think it has its flaws and doesn't hold up the masterpiece that was the 1980 series. It's just that, everywhere you look it's as if no one dares to say anything bad about it. The lavish reviews from the big media outlets feel somewhat fake and forced, at least to me. @@rebllll
its the best ep of the current eps. its not stupid like ep 3. and its exposition is now slowly building how toronaga and his clan operates. the pace was also really good it makes us breath with the characters without needlessly trying to feed us information.
I agree with Fuji and Blackthorne having more chemistry, but tbh I felt the same when recently rewatching the 1980 series as well. It might just be that the character of Mariko is written as a bit more distant, possibly due to her position or history (like the real life Hosokawa Gracia.) On the whole, I enjoy Sawai's Mariko more than Shimada's, and I will be very happy as long as we don't get the corny "I love thee" bits in this series. That always feels very off and fake to me.
a couple of months ago he would have raided settlements as a pirate. Why would he suddenly out of nowhere want to commit seppuku for a couple of insignificant villagers.
@@andrewa8765 we havent seen them become significant either. at the moment he wants too really leave Japan too. And his journal does say they raided settlements?
@Userkiller3814 Spanish and Portuguese settlements which he has legal documents from London saying they can given the fact they're at war right now. At this point they've cut out so much of his interactions that he's starting to feel more and more of a side character in this version, rather than the main one.
So far for myself this version is its own thing and the quality is so high that i will not constantly worry if it matches the 80s tv series or book I like how it keeos the core basic story but expands everywhere else I agree Mariko is very cool the opposite of the 80s series portrayal, but we have 6 episodes to go Im just happy to get high quality series set in feudal Japan ;)
I understand your grievances “book this… book that…”, but as someone who hasn’t read the book or seen the 1980s show this is awesome and seems to be heading in the right direction. Just putting that out there for people in my position who might get dismayed by your review, which is geared more towards those invested in the material.
I agree 100% with your review, I had pretty much the same reaction and feeling about this episode. I am finding the filming location still lingering in my thoughts, they are obviously not in Japan plus not showing Blackthorne’s sepiku attempt misses the chance to show that this is a major event that helps Blackthorne understand better the culture. There is a definite lack of romance between Mariko and Blackthorne whereas in the previous adaptation this was developed brilliantly. I am still a little put-off my Mariko’s lack of Japanese accented English plus she is so dour and depressed, obviously not utilizing her 8-fold fence; I still find Yoko Shimada’s portrayal better from the standpoint on how she should be portrayed (maybe this was a directors instruction).
I was waiting for the son to use those cannons, from across the field. With the changes you mentioned, having already been giving a different story, I was pretty sure, after the insulting of the son. He gave a look like “I’m going to kill these allies, that you think are a secret, dummy.” I agree, it’s difficult to know how I feel fully feel, about the story, because of changes I didn’t like, that may lead to a story that is just as good, better or worse. Mirako has moments of how I thought of her, as a young man, reading, and as a kid watching, as well as adult, recently rewatching. The mini series is not nearly as well done, in a lot of technical ways, and I’m used to using knowing what the Japanese say, usually. That news something uniquely cool, about the old mini series, I really like. One picks up phrases, and things they repeat in greetings, as it goes on. I really have enjoyed the show, and it’s what I most look forward to for tv or series streaming. I like the acting. It looks gorgeous. I just have issues, with much of the same things you mentioned.
Completely agree with your assessment. They’re really hobbling Blackthorne and Mariko’s stories, as the show is moving at breakneck speed. If I wasn’t so familiar with the novel, and even the original 1980 series, I’d say they’re doing a great job, but knowing how the story is supposed to play out, I feel the show runners have dropped the ball in a lot of aspects. Blackthorne comes across as submissive and a bit of a pushover while Mariko is cold and standoffish, which is not how those characters are portrayed at all in the novel.
To be fair, the 1980 miniseries did a speed run through the end of the novel. I think it was six 1.5 hour long episodes, while this new show is probably around 9 hours with its 10 episodes--so they are roughly the same amount of time. The novel probably needs 15-20 hours of screen time to cover most things faithfully. Maybe a third miniseries 40 years from now will manage to do that!
I greatly appreciate in-depth review, but if your video is a comparison side by side Book vs show, I feel like you're shooting down the show. NOT everybody read the book, I surely enjoy how the show is turning out.
I definitely am feeling that the show feels slightly rushed. Not sure why they took out the ultimatum for blackthorne to learn the Japanese language lest the whole village dies part.
I think at some point they'll have to put Blackthorne in a position where he considers using seppuku to get his point across. If they don't I'll be severely disappointed.
Notice there us no conversation about duty vs love. The woman's duty being willing to do anything for her man, willing to lay her Life down for him being duty, which is bigger then the western term of love. To make matters worse Omi says that he LOVES a woman. Would he really use that western term?
Legit question: why is the village threatened for him not learning the language? what does that solve? I'm not too familiar with the books but I am very curious if it makes sense there
Toranaga wants to be able to communicate with him directly instead of using a translator. So he sets up the threat that if Blackthorne does not learn the language during the 6 months he is in Anjiro, there will be repercussions. I think the main purpose this serves for the story is that it is a good plot device to cause Blackthorn's seppuku attempt, which is probably one of the most important things that happens to him in the book.
Agree 100%. Blackthorne's seppuku decision marks a key pivotal point in his character progression that is vital to the essence of the story and his awakening to the Japanese mindset. Watching Yabushige turn his blade in the sea during Rodriguez' rescue was the first key, Mariko's husbands sacrifice (and her acceptance of it) was another and Blackthorne's willingness to substitute himself for the villagers was the final push through the door to his spiritual rebirth as a new man. Imho, a vital story component that was overlooked (so far at least) I feel it is too important and dramatically interesting to omit completly from the tale and will be woven into the story later on.
Completely new to channel, 80s Shogun, the novel, and the entire genre lol..but loving it. :) A lil bit of age & curiosity makes the world much more interesting.. 🙃 Fwiw...having been a ms & hs English teacher, I can't remember not hearing this every time we'd wrap up a beloved novel with (even a really good) film version: "But they left out sooo muuch!!" 😂 There's just nothing that comes close to the 'room' that a well-written novel allows for painting the nooks & crannies of plot. The sheer word count when compared to a script just almost isn't a fair comparison. Anyhoo - just had to be an annoying newbie and throw that out there. You do very nice work..👍👍
I just want to add on here that I'm pretty sure they removed the "Blackthorn must learn Japanese within a year's time" part because Cosmo Jarvis is one of the only actors in the show that doesn't know any Japanese.
I'm not familiar with the source material so I've been totally loving the show, but even so I feel like things are flying by while we are missing something. This is already near the halfway point of the show and it feels like the story is just beginning
Not having the seppuku is a huge miss. It is one of the most powerful scenes of the book. And was extremely well done in the 1980 presentation. There have been a couple scenes now that seem to have been dropped for reasons that seem like an attempt to make the show palatable to modern sensibilities. That is...disappointing.
I think the biggest issue is time. Perhaps the studio was unsure if the viewer would sit and watch 2 hrs an episode of Shogun. The 1980 mini series was approx 2 hrs an episode. I think because of this some other scenes were rushed perhaps…. I do disagree with you on if they could come back to address Blackthorne and learning Japanese or the villagers must die. I think it can come back early in the next episode by showing that Blackthorne isn’t learning Japanese. Also remember just because you feel it should go a certain way doesn’t mean you’re right. It’s just your opinion. How you feel is irrelevant. I do greatly agree with you on the pacing. Perhaps the next episode will increase in time to 1 and 1/2 hrs with the final couple of episodes being at 2 hrs a piece. That would help a lot
They also left out the part where Toranaga manipulated Yabu. He built up Yabu's troops, embarrassing Yabu. Then he gave him a pair of awesome swords straight after to build him back up. It showed how manipulative and clever Toranaga was. And there's Blackthorne's attempted seppuku missing. Terrible.
This is the kind of show you watch before reading the book. It's great for what it is, but there's so much being left out it can be frustrating for those who know the source material so well. It's hard to forget what's not being shown, etc.
While Im super sad they did not cover the Anjiro events like the attempted seppuku and the death of the gardner, he was introduced so it may come to pass later. Theres a scene in the trailer with someone shooting an arrow past Mariko's face and I think it was Buntaro so maybe they will show more of Anjiro next episode. I do have to give props to the actor playing Yabu, hes sooooo good
My guess why the removal of the learn Japanese or die storyline was done for two reasons: 1) It would make Toranaga look like a villain. I guess they believe that people would root AGAINST Toranaga if they included it. 2) I guess they want to keep enough English in the show because English speaking audiences of today don’t seem interested in foreign language shows. I haven’t read the book or seen the 1980 series but I bet much of the English world people would tune out from the show if it went from majority Japanese to 90 percent Japanese. I think they are trying to do their best to make the stories naturally happen but the problem for them is that they are locked into 10 episodes for an 60 plus chapter Novel. There is no way you could make such a short show without seriously cutting out and speeding stuff up. This show should had been 15 to 20 episodes, but as I have stated before, film studios are not willing to expand their budget for already large shows for that long sadly. I think from what I can gather this is by itself a good show even with it’s flaws, but the producers should be open with mentioning what and why changes were made.
Also just read some posts about some people thinking this was a slow pace episode until the end. That attitude where western audiences are conditioned for middle pace or faster pace shows to be “slow” really tells me that sadly a lot of people would be tuning out if the show took more of it’s time (which it should had here to make the training of the new cannon crews more realistic, instead of a few days, and the addition of the Japanese learning storyline). Those days were people would willingly watch a mostly silent 2 hour movie on the building of the Sampo seems to be gone nowadays.
You should listen to the official podcast. They explained that "consort" was not the correct translation for Fujiko-san's position. A hatamoto must be a member of a samurai family so Toranaga is marrying Blackthorn into Fuji-san's family. It is why she can give her father's swords to him. She is to run his household as a wife. This is her service and duty to Toranaga-sama. I suspect this might be similar to what happened to William Adams. A match arranged by Togukawa Ieyasu.
Mariko was the one I was worried about the most for this show. Now it seems she's becoming a problem for reasons I didn't expect she would. This could get interesting...
@@noahhorn9382 I'm afraid I don't know. I haven't actually watched it yet. I was going to wait and see if they did with Mariko what I feared before diving into it. Otherwise I wasn't going to waste my time. But that's why I watched the reviews. Can't imagine this as being something kids should see with or without nudity, though
I agree with all of your comments in the vid. Pacing and huge holes are worrying, but overall I am still enjoying it. I'm going with the mindset of 'inspired by the book/history' rather than a remake.
One of the reasons I think they're not having him learn Japanese is that they want as much of the show to be in English as possible, as it's directed at an English-speaking audience. If he doesn't speak English, they would have to do the full show in Japanese with subtitles, although in truth, he should be speaking Portugese when he speaks English anyway, lol
I think you misinterpreted the part where Blackthorne says he hadn’t fought land battles and about the Cannons etc ~tldr~ his way of saying navy was better than army I think that the point was he doesn’t know anything about land war, but suggests that if they want to use cannons it’s all the better because the Naval fusiliers were far better than their land based colleagues Ties into why the Japanesers initially thought cannon were inefficient and inaccurate - it wasn’t a naval person using them properly
Of all things that natto scene floored me.. Truly an acquired taste If you can get past the smell and the slime. Blackthorn handled it much better than I!
To be honest I also felt more chemistry between Fuji and Blackthorne over Mariko. I didn’t know about Mariko’s real life counterpart, her dad is basically the Benedict Arnold of Japan. It interesting that you’re pointing out more inaccuracies from the book rather than historical inaccuracy. I hope this means the show is doing a good job of that.
I haven't read the books but I'm LOVING this show. The history and culture of Japan is such a rich source for stories that hasn't been capitalized on at all in western culture. I do wish a bit that it didn't need to have the white guy but so far it's been reasonable as a proxy for western viewers to be introduced to the era.
I think removing the threat to the entire village is a good move, that just seemed so unbelievable in the book it really took me out of the story for a moment. Those peasants represent a lot of potential koku and to kill them right before a war just sounded dumb as hell. I'm not too worried about the Blackthrone/Mariko development, feels like they're waiting for the future you-know-what foil to show up.
@@TheShogunateAs someone who hasnt read the original book or TV series, I think FX's shogun is great. I can understand your perspective of wanting it to be close to the source material, but tbh I believe adding those elements in there (at least in this episode) would've significantly weaken it.
I just finished watching episode 4, I enjoyed it but I also agree the pacing is too fast, I don't know much about William Adamswho Blackthorn is based on so knowing if he participated in a land battle before is unknown to me. The bonding with Mariko and the other woman whose name I can't remember was nice to see. I look forward to more though and what happens next and what Ishido and Toranaga do because of what happened at the end of episode 4.
I see no sense to add that "seppuku and learning the language" fits the story, I dont see he already acknowledge the culture , he needs to experience war and losses to earn that
I have not read the book (although I will after this series is over), and only saw the original series once 20 odd years ago. From that point of view, this was a good episode. There is a lot of character building going on here. I loved the foreshadowing about chained cannon. At first it’s played off as just another bit of training, but the whole time it’s building to seeing it in use.
I have not read nor watched the 1980s version. What I don't like about this current version is the main actor/character. And I completely agree with the lack of chemistry between him and Mariko.
The gore and battle action in this episode was owesome, if they keep the same level of gore and pace for future sceanes this might turn into the best looking samurai show, aside from that fujiko has such a likeble face, im glad im not the only one that like her better than mariko.
thanks for your honest review, i love how you dissect this series not only from their historical accuracy but also the differences between this adaptation, the 1980 version, and the original novel. By the way i'm just curious regarding the aftermath of this episode, as you said the killing of Jozen can't be justified as the reason to start the war, but how about Osaka Siege campaign by Tokuguwa? correct me if i'm wrong, wasn't the initial pretext for that campaign is inscription in great bronze bell that shogunate interpreted as an act of treason against them? So how can it be that something "trivial" and "far-fetched" like that become a reason to attack Osaka while killing a messenger that in fact is more than just an insult can't be indentified as such? Sorry for my bad English, i hope i can convey my message clearly to you
In the issue with the bell. I believe it was more seen as an insult again the Tokugawa/Ieyasu so he has proper reason to seek some form of punishment. With Jozen he's just a messenger who was being rude.
7:16 concerning the pistols and cannons seem to be fairly accurate from what I can tell. I’m no expert but the flintlock mechanisms on the pistols would have been available. They were starting to be a better and cheaper alternative to the more complicated Wheelock pistols of the same time. Also the cannon look to be Demi-culverins or Sakers which were the common type of medium cannon used in ships and in the field at the time. The weight of the shot and size of the barrel is the determining factor variety of the cannon from my understanding. Sakers firing a 5lbs ball and a Demi-Culverin around 10lbs ball.
While flint and steel firing mechanisms such as the snaplock existed at the time, the classic flintlock style on Blackthorne's pistols wouldn't be invented for another decade, and wouldn't become popular for several more.
I agree with your compalins and see where they are coming from. I think if we didn't know the source and actual history these would be far less. And yeah i think about him and fuji the same. The scene where they exchanged gifts was really a strong one for them. This felt way more strong and binding than him and mariko. Which is strange to me when clearly mariko will be by his side later on. I truly think that by watching more and more this should have rather been a 20eps series. Ep 1 and 2 where great but this seems really a bit rushed
The gun use in the last scene was a Culverin, it's a cannon much slimmer little sister that had better reach and accuracy but lack damage for a siege weapon. John said he was a privateer sailor (fancy word for hired pirate) work for Dutch Indies (VOC), so his ship probably had both guns but it would make sense if they only used the culverin for land used. The samurai already used cannon for decades at this point, but their canons based on Chinese canon are more inferior and the Portuguese doesn't give their best gun for obvious reason 😂
They skipped whole language aspect? What a shame. In the next episode, Blackthorn uses a bit of broken Japanese, but it all feels like natural progression since first episode, just him picking up some frazes. Not a single scene of actively learning.
Why are they changing the names of the characters? You're even calling her "Fujiko," for instance, based on the book and the 1980 series, but they're calling her "Fuji" in this one. Same for Yabu / Yabushige, Yaemon / Yaechiyo, Tsukku / Tsuji for Alvarado, etc.
Every time I end an episode, I'm saying: “Great production but rushing every main event, the 80 show story was so much better with the pacing”. Need to watch the 80 shogun now.
Wait, wouldn't john need to know about seppoku to threaten to commit seppoku? Like, I don't think he learns about it in the show until after the beach party
This is my first ever piece of shogun, and I'm not sure fujiko is in the book or 80s miniseries which brings up a question in my mind. What will happen to fujiko? Obviously the end goal is Mariko and john, but does fujiko fit? I mean, if she lives (and I know there's a greater than zero possibility she doesn't. Hopefully it's not a fridging) would she be able to join Mariko and John? I mean, from what I've seen sengoku Japan wasn't the strictest about monogamy. On the other hand, she might fall in love with another character (tho honestly unlikely) or be married off offscreen. Also, all three have great chemistry (at least to me)
The cannons are actually culverin's which had a much greater ratio of barrel length to shot size making them less powerful and slower firing than a regular cannon but with the advantage of superior accuracy and range. Francis Drake's favourite tactic against the more powerful Spanish ships was to equip his vessels with culverin's and use them to pick off the Spanish from a distance beyond which their cannons could return fire. William Adams (Blackthorne) served under Drake in the battle against the Spanish Armada in 1588 so he would have been well acquainted with their use.
The canon scene is complete nonsense and typical muh English Naval Warfare w_a_n_k_e_r_y. Culverin's wasn't some English only thing, they literally have to use a borrowed word to describe them. The Portuguese had been using that type of canon for years in the region, they were called Esperas. Yet in this series they have to put that line in about the Portuguese not being able to hit anything with their canons (including a castle, let that sink in) even though you can fire an arrow at the distance the scene is depicting the target to be at, because all the Portuguese can do in this series is twirl their mustaches while Blacktorne, being an Englishman, can practically walk on water. And the Japanese were all born yesterday, getting their minds blown by this amazing new technology they've been seeing for years, and the European intermediaries between us and China that first arrived on a Chinese junk have a base of operations in China??? M-MASAKA!! :O
Lady Fuji rocks!!!
Fax
I think it was Mariko pretending to be her.
Agreed and it's mostly through facial expressions and body language
I think this show benefits from having the entire episode center around 1-2 main characters rather than cycling through all of them. We didn't see the regents at all and only saw Toranaga for one scene and I think the overall episode was better for it.
Was there any nudity in this episode? Trying to avoid with kids
@@noahhorn9382Yes, there's a brief scene of Omi and Kiku smashing.
@@noahhorn9382yes
@@noahhorn9382There was a sex scene with Omi and Kiku
@@noahhorn9382 yes theres some nudity at times but its not too much only 1 or 2 scenes if i recall
If Lady Fuji asks you leave, you leave - you leave immediately. And remember to bow, on your way out.
Not going to lie, the way Blackthorn’s been developed so far it doesn’t seem like he would care all that much if people he didn’t know would die due to his failure, let alone kill himself for them
Blackthorne's seppuku attempt was the scene I have always most cherished from the Shogun novel and 80's series. I recall reading that passage over and over again. The event, and the following moments, were depicted so powerfully and beautifully, I feel to leave it out is almost unforgivable, except for the fact that everything else about this series is fucking awesome.
100% agree.
Thankfully they have it, just later. Idk if it was done well yet tho
Thank god I'm not the only one who think that Fuji and Blackthorne have more chemistry than Mariko and Blackthorne. I think it because the way that Anna Sawai chose to potrayed Mariko, she always have a cold and distance expression on her face even when she is having a heart to heart with Blackthorne. In contrast the actress who played Fuji displayed a wide range of emotion and the scene that she recive a pistol from blackthorne and in return she gave him her family sword I truly see something special spark between the two in contrass to every scene of Mariko and Blackthrone.
Was there any nudity in this episode? Trying to avoid with kids
I think they just paired Mariko and Blackthorne way too early unless they're trying to end it all in one season.
@@noahhorn9382 Yes, there is nudity so there you go.
Her name played Fuji is Moeka Hoshi.
On Episode 4:
The time sequence should have been stretched by showing that certain (longer) times have lapsed. Certainly the "visit in the night" was jarring and needed some lead-in. Come on, Blackthorne did not even give a hint of romantic interest in her, to her and at all times, was entirely prim, proper and respectable to her. And Buntaro (and the father of her child) just died (in Mariko's mind).
That could have been handled better. Say, like a short scene showing the progress of the current winter. Certainly, it was not a spur of the moment consideration for both of them in the Clavell's book; it was a slow burn, verbal first.
Enjoying these reviews as I myself eagerly await each episode every week, I totally agree with your concerns regarding the pace of the show and certain pieces being missed out. Also the part regarding the pistols that Blackthorne is shown to be using you are correct they appear to be 1801 Pattern Royal Navy Sea Service Flintlock Pistols although I think all things considered to the untrained eye they don't look too out of place. But overall really enjoying these episodes and reviews. 👍
Was there any nudity in this episode? Trying to avoid with kids
@@noahhorn9382 There is an intimate scene in the most recent episode but the scenes lighting is quite dark so the nudity isn't really that bad all things considers, I suppose in your case it more up to your discretion.
Thank you
@@noahhorn9382 Yes. There is a very explicit s** scene, inappropriate for kids, in my opinion.
This apart from the other s** scene in the dark
I love how this show uses violence. It's not omnipresent for the sake of being edgy, they show or don't show it very cleverly.
The cast is insanely good, and the show is a masterpiece.
But I have to mention _Tadanobu Asano_ : he is killing as Yabu... His facial expressions in the end of this episode l, are priceless
I loved him in Silence!
Yabushige’s facial expression is being upstaged by those of Omi, though.
The series seems to be setting up that the manipulators par excellence are Toranaga and Omi.
@@alesh2275 They ruined Omi, turning him into a little weasel, obviously dominated by his Lady Macbeth. Completely different from the 1980 version. I guess it's subjective which version you'd like.
His character is annoying me so much, but so much! Because he is kinda funny to watch but I really don't like this actor, never liked! I'm lost.
I too haven't really been feeling Omi in this adaptation. Omi in the 1980 series was a powerful presence. In this one he seems, I don't know... weaker, less forceful. Significantly overshadowed by the characters around him. I don't think they picked the right actor for him. But also the material they've been giving him hasn't been as good. They cut out a lot of the dialogue that strengthened his character. For example in his early confrontation with Blackthorne.
I think the one drawback of a serialized adaptation is that the pacing requires there be a conflict, climax and denouement - and a lead in during every episode of a 10 part series - regardless of how the book is arranged.
This isn't helped by how stringent TV producers are about this kind of thing.
Agreed. If I hadn't read the book, I'd feel like the characters don't develop. As is it doesn't feel earned, but I pretend that everything I know from the book is just happening in the background. Really feels like this is a miss on the show.
You’re on point!
Definitely one of my favorite channels for the shows recap ATW🤟🏽
Pretty much any adaptation from book that is over 1000 pages is going to have to cut something somewhere. I am liking Lady Fuji as she is being played.....you have to have sympathy for the character....and her raw emotion is understandable. But I'm also liking Mariko as well. She is a tough, resilient, as well as brilliant. She would not wear her heart on her sleeve......the eight fold fence indeed
They should have made the show longer.
Nah, I wholeheartedly disagree with your take on Mariko.
If ever, the novel’s portrayal of Mariko is the weaker one, and the conflict between Hosokawa Gracia’s Catholicism and her duties as samurai should take center stage. As Gracia/Mariko how can you be so likeable towards Blackthorne when you see in him a threat to your religion? Initially guarded, then gradually opening up would be the logical expectation.
You're too hung up on the previous adaptation and the novel. You're constantly judging it as how you expect it to be instead of taking it as it is.
I think so too, he's too carried away by the novel's own take
People expect entire books to be put into TV shows now 😅 it's honestly annoying
The problem is that it is difficult to review something when you already know how the story goes.
@@louist7691book readers always think they are superior than other people
@@TheShogunateI do think it’s very hard to not constantly noticing differences to the previous iteration of the same story when you have just finished the book and the original tv adaptation so recently.
Killing and entire detachment of messagers is an act of war and has always met with such historical so while her line was for dramatic effect it was also to emphasize that fact and turning point.
Indeed Ghengis Khan wiped out an entire kingdom just for executing his messenger
Samurai culture is far different from the Mongols. Revenge was often seen as virtuous by samurai.
@@TheShogunate how is he going to prove it was done out of revenge if all the witnesses are dead.
I think I agree with everything you said. It's been a while since I've watched the 1980 adaptation or read the book, so I forgot about the learning Japanese part, but I felt something was amiss and now it makes sense.
I do feel like we may get a "Sekigahara" episode towards the end of the series after watching this episode. I'm not getting my hopes up too much yet, but I doubt they'd spend all their budget on the final scene of episode 4. Fingers crossed!
I must say I really liked the scene with Blackthorne watching the rain fall in his zen garden, the cinematography was just perfect (and i say this as someone who watched the show on a tablet)
Really love Moeka Hoshi (Fuji actress), glad she land this role.
I just realized in this show that actor who play as Taiko also play as Hideyoshi in NHK Taiga Drama called "Sanada Maru". 😂
I love the end with cannons. To see them get blown up to bits is such a new perspective to see cannons instead of a explosion on the ground and mem just falling over. And to have them have i think around 20 navel cannons is such a game changer. Overall i love this epsideo as a person who did not seen or read the orginal shogun. Having balckhorn mumble out of the siege of Malta dose bring out the history buff in me
Reminded me of The Patriot with Mel Gibson. Cannons smashing through the enemy formations, dismembering soldiers
@@gbautista100 exactly! The only time I could remember cannons having a gorely depiction was the patriot with losing a leg or having your head torn off.......which somehow affected one person. Shrapnel would scar skin and cloths off but this was horror with a gorely spectacle.
As someone who didn't read the book, the issues you bring up didn't really bother me while I was watching.
But it is good to know what was changed from the book to the show
I agree, I haven’t read the book yet and none of the critiques or concerns in these reviews have crossed my mind. I couldn’t say how it fairs as an adaptation of the book, but as a show I wouldn’t consider it to have bad pacing, or any problems with the characterization of Mariko and Toranaga, and I would never have guessed there was a missing piece to Blackthorn’s character development.
Thankfully I have not read the book yet (I plan to AFTER the series is over) since it sounds like they are starting to deviate from it. But I see that as a good thing because it sounds like, if you HAVE read the book you may be too distracted by these deviations to truly enjoy it? Case in point, seeing other streamers talk about this episode who may have not read the book, you get an entirely different reaction.Personally, I'm loving this series and have managed to talk several friends into watching it as well. Definitely one of the best TV series I've seen in a long while...but I also definitely plan to read the book as the show has peaked my interest in the original story
You will enjoy the book, no two ways about it. But books and film are two very different story telling mediums and one will never match the other, or so seldom it doesn't even make sense to fret over it. Clavell knew his Japanese culture, though having been a Japanese POW during WW2 he saw a perhaps even crueller and death admiring version in his own life. Anyway, this is a work of fiction so there is no point in getting wound up over infinite historical accuracy.
For me having read the book increases my enjoyment of the show a lot as it adds a lot of depth and context to a lot of what’s going on. I’m not hung up on deviations but I do lament the stuff that’s cut for time.
My suspicion is Blackthorne’s attempted seppuku is shifted later for pacing. But we’ll see seems too important to be left out but perhaps too early in the shows pacing to do here.
It also would have felt very out of place if it happened this episode. At the start he was pressuring them too be able too leave the Japans and then by the End of the Episode he would have died for a couple of insignificant villagers.
I think careful optimism is appropriate in this situation. If Godzilla Minus One is any indication, it's that the Japanese are currently very trustworthy when it comes to making good movies, and while this isn't being made by a Japanese studio, it definitely has a strong influence from prominent Japanese voices, the obvious one being Sanada. Though, I haven't seen this series, the previous adaptation, read the book, or am particularly interested in Sengoku/Edo period history. My true love is the Heian and the couple of centuries before and after and the literature that came out of them so please take my opinions with the level of salt appropriate to them.
The thing is, this series isn't a Japanese production. While there are some Japanese involved in the production and Japanese actors, it's not being produced by a Japanese studio so comparing it to Godzilla Minus One isn't really an apt comparison.
I think the pictures look so off, as if Westerners did them with the participation of a few Yamato in somewhere outside Japan. Which I guess is the case. I like the original better, anytime.
Great review. I'm 50yo, I read this book as a teenager and I loved it. This being said, I'm enjoying this series thus far, maybe because I can't remember the detail from Clavell's book. I love your added knowledge about Japanese culture at that time. Looking forward to ep 5. Thanks.
This is a big reason the 1980 version did put the focus on Blackthorne. You can't do Shogun as a novel justice with so few episodes, if you try to cram it all in.
I feel like this is your best review to date. While I don't fully agree with all of your opinions on this episode, I am enjoying your comments and I feel like you are sticking much closer to source material than in previous episodes where you tended to go down some historical comparisons at times. Very well done!!!
Have not read book or seen previous shogun. Really enjoying this adaptation its very awesome. Looking forward to the coming episodes. The atmosphere is surreal. They to do this so well. Really appreciate when you give insight as to locations, history and details where they perhaps took artistic liberties.
Can anyone else confirm or deny this…but this show is a mini series with only 10 episodes planned. So I think due to this, some story elements have been rushed in order to get to the important moments.
Can confirm 10 episodes only. It's a miniseries only covering the book.
First, the online recaps on the episodes, dope. But I must say one thing I belive you are a little short sited on. The part where Mariko says this is war. I believe for dramatic purposes that was expressed, but also for Ishida to respond to show strength. Ishida already thinks Yabushige has betrayed him. So if he finds out that his envoy was killed in the territory of yabushige. This would be grounds for strong retaliation.
Thanks for the weekly reviews! This is a fun event for us Japanese history fans.
Yes, depiction of Fuji-sama is wonderful so far! The actress is so expressive with relatively little dialogue: you feel what her character’s feeling moreso than any other in the show so far.
We will see if they pick up the skill of the Japanese to handle musket and musket tactics in the sengoku jidai correctly. For people with no deeper knowledge of this, will be an surprise how advanced Japan was in this regards. I also hope we see Samurai on horse with yari. Hoping they will lift some troupes about japanese warfare.
I didn't see the 80ies miniseries. I tried watching it a week ago (don't remember, could be it wasn't even my first attempt), but found it impossible to watch. I must also say that I wouldn't have bought the idea of Blackthorn wanting to attempt seppuku (I am talking about a TV series, not the book). For me, it would have felt too soon, he doesn't seem to be very immersed in Japanese culture yet. He also clearly still wants to go home and free his crew and isn't attached to villagers in any way. In the TV series, from the beginning and at least till now he is clearly depicted as the one who always survives. And he has neither seen any seppuku nor heard the details.
I don't know why I feel so differently from what seems like everybody in this comment section, but I really like all the Mariko and Blackthorne scenes and how she is slowly warming up, smiling more openly etc (but yes I like Fuji too). In the 1980 series, all the women looked, had facial expressions and behaved like we are used to imagining geishas do. Mariko is refreshingly different from this stereotype, Fuji not so much.
Thank god someone has some sense they are literally criticizing Mariko for not being happy and cheerful and sometimes is saying that she has no personality which is really not true at all and as we see in these episodes she is really much growing and has a really good relationship with Blackthorn and they have to understand that she is not going to be instantly be cheerful and happy all the time the situations around are intense and serious so she would be serious sometimes she also shown her brave, kindness and cheerful side sometimes when it's needed and her and blackthorn have some good chemistry than Fuji and blackthorn.
Seeing what Hidetada did in this episode and in real life, Ieyasu might have killed the wrong son after all.
I certainly appreciate your reviews immensely as I've said repeatedly, and will continue to say! They have been and continue to be invaluable in helping me to determine if I will spend the time and finances to support this series.
Unfortunately, as much as I had hoped wouldn't happen, each review continues to maintain and to some degree even strengthen and give credence to the fears I've expressed prior. As the episodes continue to air, hopefully those fears will be erased or mitigated, but thus far they haven't.
I'm even more saddened to hear that despite the claim that they were going to be as historically accurate as was possible, several things are just not that easily could have been.
Thank you very much Shogunate, as always, for providing these extraordinary reviews and providing your invaluable insight, you are a true treasure of the community!
I feel they’re not developing the characters very well. Up to now, I think the original TV serial was vastly better in regard to the characters. This new version is much better in terms of how it looks.
I'd describe it as a meal that looks wonderful and is beautifully presented but doesn’t meet expectations in taste because key ingredients are missing.
I’m glad I read the book first. The movie seems to only touch the surface of or even skips over some very significant parts. I understand movies need to condense a story, but some of my favorite parts were completely left out. Agree that Mariko seemed too cool mannnered towards Blackthorn and Fuji and Blackthorn were warmer towards one another than in the book. Wish they hadn’t left out Blackthorn trying to protect the village people by attempting Seppuku. It showed how much he values innocent lives.
Agreed. Glad I read the book
Wait, you saw the condensed movie version of the 80s adaptation?
I didn't enjoy the book but this series is so good . I like this version better than the book
5:40 I was actually rooting for Blackthorne + Fuji (I haven't read the book). The connection was beautiful in an unplanned / unexpected way and that's usually the best type of (onscreen) connection as it doesn't feel like the viewer is being led into it.
I agree with some of your views, especially where it comes to Blackthorne's seppuku attempt which is where he actually begins to see what it means to be Samurai, but not sure what is "silly" about Mariko saying that killing Jozen would cause war. This was not just some dispute between two Samurai of equal rank. First of all you have a lower ranking Samurai killing a Samurai of higher rank, but more importantly, Jozen was there in an official capacity, representing the Council. Killing him could easily be used as a pretext for war as it could be considered an attack on the Council itself.
her "exposition" is basically there to spoonfeed "modern audiences" who can't do "nuanced" or think for themselves. quite a sad state of affairs when your production feels the requirement to do that.
I love that I haven't read the book or watched the 1980 series. Coming in with no knowledge appears to be a big benefit with all the bellyaching I see here in the comments. I mean, come on...the book is always better than the show/movie. If it's true for Lords of the Rings even then it's true for everything. This whole story has to be told in 10 hours, it cannot hit everyone's favorite character development points from the book.
Also the "Fuji has more chemistry with Blackthorne than Mariko" is completely nonsensical. Did we watch the same show? Blackthorne and Mariko are constantly conversing, sharing sly smiles as he is trying to learn Japanese pronunciation, she opens up to him as they are conversing at night when he goes to take a bath and he returns that vulnerability by being understanding and complimentary. As for Fuji he gave her a gun to (1) protect him if she needs to and to (2) thank her for running his house. That's it. He actively is trying to shoe her away in the scenes beforehand. That anyone could think there is more chemistry between him and Fuji makes me wonder if they are watching closely or just bemoaning the fact that the show skipped their favorite book parts.
Having been around for the 1980 miniseries and loved it. I am very impressed with this too, and they seem very similar in their initial critical reactions.
Thank you so much for changing the music!
Man, I just love your reviews. It’s so nice to see honest reviews that don’t just lavish praise when it’s not deserved. Everywhere I look people are falling over themselves to say how good this series is. To me, the 1980 one still is a masterpiece compared to this one. This episode definitely felt rushed, lacking, and poorly acted out by Mariko and Anjin. Fuji was amazing though.
you dont think it deserves praise?
I think he means the uncritical lavish praise it garnered from most quarters, when as shown by this episodes it definitely has some flaws compared to the 80s version.
@@steveday6671that’s my issue with comparing two things, you will always find flaws. the criticism is valid, but doesn’t invalidate others praise or enjoyment. feels weird in my opinion.
@@rebllll criticism is weird? all art is critiqued by the viewer or listener. and at no point did the poster say anything was invalid they just said it was nice to see a real critique rather than just "it's amazing" which it very much isnt. its decent but has many flaws, like the video gameish use of the cgi to mask they didnt build proper sets or film on location in Japan.
It definitely deserves praise. There are many things about it that are incredibly well done. But many of us also think it has its flaws and doesn't hold up the masterpiece that was the 1980 series. It's just that, everywhere you look it's as if no one dares to say anything bad about it. The lavish reviews from the big media outlets feel somewhat fake and forced, at least to me. @@rebllll
its the best ep of the current eps. its not stupid like ep 3. and its exposition is now slowly building how toronaga and his clan operates. the pace was also really good it makes us breath with the characters without needlessly trying to feed us information.
I agree with Fuji and Blackthorne having more chemistry, but tbh I felt the same when recently rewatching the 1980 series as well. It might just be that the character of Mariko is written as a bit more distant, possibly due to her position or history (like the real life Hosokawa Gracia.)
On the whole, I enjoy Sawai's Mariko more than Shimada's, and I will be very happy as long as we don't get the corny "I love thee" bits in this series. That always feels very off and fake to me.
Blackthornes attempted seppuku was critical. How could they skip that?
They seem to be skipping a lot of moments where Blackthorne goes against the tide.
a couple of months ago he would have raided settlements as a pirate. Why would he suddenly out of nowhere want to commit seppuku for a couple of insignificant villagers.
@Userkiller3814 because he wasn't a pirate at all and they aren't insignificant.
@@andrewa8765 we havent seen them become significant either. at the moment he wants too really leave Japan too. And his journal does say they raided settlements?
@Userkiller3814 Spanish and Portuguese settlements which he has legal documents from London saying they can given the fact they're at war right now. At this point they've cut out so much of his interactions that he's starting to feel more and more of a side character in this version, rather than the main one.
So far for myself this version is its own thing and the quality is so high that i will not constantly worry if it matches the 80s tv series or book
I like how it keeos the core basic story but expands everywhere else
I agree Mariko is very cool the opposite of the 80s series portrayal, but we have 6 episodes to go
Im just happy to get high quality series set in feudal Japan ;)
I understand your grievances “book this… book that…”, but as someone who hasn’t read the book or seen the 1980s show this is awesome and seems to be heading in the right direction. Just putting that out there for people in my position who might get dismayed by your review, which is geared more towards those invested in the material.
I agree 100% with your review, I had pretty much the same reaction and feeling about this episode. I am finding the filming location still lingering in my thoughts, they are obviously not in Japan plus not showing Blackthorne’s sepiku attempt misses the chance to show that this is a major event that helps Blackthorne understand better the culture. There is a definite lack of romance between Mariko and Blackthorne whereas in the previous adaptation this was developed brilliantly. I am still a little put-off my Mariko’s lack of Japanese accented English plus she is so dour and depressed, obviously not utilizing her 8-fold fence; I still find Yoko Shimada’s portrayal better from the standpoint on how she should be portrayed (maybe this was a directors instruction).
I was waiting for the son to use those cannons, from across the field.
With the changes you mentioned, having already been giving a different story, I was pretty sure, after the insulting of the son. He gave a look like “I’m going to kill these allies, that you think are a secret, dummy.”
I agree, it’s difficult to know how I feel fully feel, about the story, because of changes I didn’t like, that may lead to a story that is just as good, better or worse.
Mirako has moments of how I thought of her, as a young man, reading, and as a kid watching, as well as adult, recently rewatching.
The mini series is not nearly as well done, in a lot of technical ways, and I’m used to using knowing what the Japanese say, usually. That news something uniquely cool, about the old mini series, I really like.
One picks up phrases, and things they repeat in greetings, as it goes on.
I really have enjoyed the show, and it’s what I most look forward to for tv or series streaming.
I like the acting. It looks gorgeous.
I just have issues, with much of the same things you mentioned.
Completely agree with your assessment. They’re really hobbling Blackthorne and Mariko’s stories, as the show is moving at breakneck speed. If I wasn’t so familiar with the novel, and even the original 1980 series, I’d say they’re doing a great job, but knowing how the story is supposed to play out, I feel the show runners have dropped the ball in a lot of aspects. Blackthorne comes across as submissive and a bit of a pushover while Mariko is cold and standoffish, which is not how those characters are portrayed at all in the novel.
Was there any nudity in this episode? Trying to avoid with kids
@noahhorn9382 Yes there are 2 sex scenes.
To be fair, the 1980 miniseries did a speed run through the end of the novel. I think it was six 1.5 hour long episodes, while this new show is probably around 9 hours with its 10 episodes--so they are roughly the same amount of time. The novel probably needs 15-20 hours of screen time to cover most things faithfully. Maybe a third miniseries 40 years from now will manage to do that!
I greatly appreciate in-depth review, but if your video is a comparison side by side Book vs show, I feel like you're shooting down the show. NOT everybody read the book, I surely enjoy how the show is turning out.
I definitely am feeling that the show feels slightly rushed. Not sure why they took out the ultimatum for blackthorne to learn the Japanese language lest the whole village dies part.
I think at some point they'll have to put Blackthorne in a position where he considers using seppuku to get his point across. If they don't I'll be severely disappointed.
As someone who has not read the book, or seen the 80s show, I have no issues with the pacing so far.
Notice there us no conversation about duty vs love. The woman's duty being willing to do anything for her man, willing to lay her Life down for him being duty, which is bigger then the western term of love. To make matters worse Omi says that he LOVES a woman. Would he really use that western term?
Legit question: why is the village threatened for him not learning the language? what does that solve? I'm not too familiar with the books but I am very curious if it makes sense there
Toranaga wants to be able to communicate with him directly instead of using a translator. So he sets up the threat that if Blackthorne does not learn the language during the 6 months he is in Anjiro, there will be repercussions. I think the main purpose this serves for the story is that it is a good plot device to cause Blackthorn's seppuku attempt, which is probably one of the most important things that happens to him in the book.
Agree 100%. Blackthorne's seppuku decision marks a key pivotal point in his character progression that is vital to the essence of the story and his awakening to the Japanese mindset. Watching Yabushige turn his blade in the sea during Rodriguez' rescue was the first key, Mariko's husbands sacrifice (and her acceptance of it) was another and Blackthorne's willingness to substitute himself for the villagers was the final push through the door to his spiritual rebirth as a new man. Imho, a vital story component that was overlooked (so far at least) I feel it is too important and dramatically interesting to omit completly from the tale and will be woven into the story later on.
Anjin-san, you have been reborn.
Was there any nudity in this episode? Trying to avoid with kids
There is but not really a full nude scene as it is dark and it lasts only a couple of seconds.
@@noahhorn9382Nah, just some incredibly graphic violence and gore, no intact human bodies, so your kids should be ok lol.
My TV has HDR so the dark scenes are REALLY dark. At first I actually thought it was Fuji that came into his room later after saying goodnight.
Completely new to channel, 80s Shogun, the novel, and the entire genre lol..but loving it. :) A lil bit of age & curiosity makes the world much more interesting.. 🙃 Fwiw...having been a ms & hs English teacher, I can't remember not hearing this every time we'd wrap up a beloved novel with (even a really good) film version: "But they left out sooo muuch!!" 😂 There's just nothing that comes close to the 'room' that a well-written novel allows for painting the nooks & crannies of plot. The sheer word count when compared to a script just almost isn't a fair comparison. Anyhoo - just had to be an annoying newbie and throw that out there.
You do very nice work..👍👍
I just want to add on here that I'm pretty sure they removed the "Blackthorn must learn Japanese within a year's time" part because Cosmo Jarvis is one of the only actors in the show that doesn't know any Japanese.
I'm not familiar with the source material so I've been totally loving the show, but even so I feel like things are flying by while we are missing something. This is already near the halfway point of the show and it feels like the story is just beginning
Thanks for the review ❤
Not having the seppuku is a huge miss. It is one of the most powerful scenes of the book. And was extremely well done in the 1980 presentation. There have been a couple scenes now that seem to have been dropped for reasons that seem like an attempt to make the show palatable to modern sensibilities. That is...disappointing.
I love the show. As one who didn't watch the original series or read the book, I have no complain about it. ❤😊
I agree about the pacing. I think this material would've benefited from a two-season twenty episode series instead of just ten
Do they ever have an episode where the sun shines? Man, it is so dark in the Land of the Rising Sun
Dear god those horses!
I liked this episode and the pacing did not hamper my enjoyment so that’s a win for me.
this episode was great and i loved how the episode ended. plus the scene after the hot spring was really surprising 😏
I think the biggest issue is time. Perhaps the studio was unsure if the viewer would sit and watch 2 hrs an episode of Shogun. The 1980 mini series was approx 2 hrs an episode. I think because of this some other scenes were rushed perhaps….
I do disagree with you on if they could come back to address Blackthorne and learning Japanese or the villagers must die. I think it can come back early in the next episode by showing that Blackthorne isn’t learning Japanese. Also remember just because you feel it should go a certain way doesn’t mean you’re right. It’s just your opinion. How you feel is irrelevant.
I do greatly agree with you on the pacing. Perhaps the next episode will increase in time to 1 and 1/2 hrs with the final couple of episodes being at 2 hrs a piece. That would help a lot
They also left out the part where Toranaga manipulated Yabu. He built up Yabu's troops, embarrassing Yabu. Then he gave him a pair of awesome swords straight after to build him back up. It showed how manipulative and clever Toranaga was. And there's Blackthorne's attempted seppuku missing. Terrible.
This is the kind of show you watch before reading the book. It's great for what it is, but there's so much being left out it can be frustrating for those who know the source material so well. It's hard to forget what's not being shown, etc.
So so far I am pleased with this Show 👍🏾but I don’t understand why they chose not to use the real names of these characters?
While Im super sad they did not cover the Anjiro events like the attempted seppuku and the death of the gardner, he was introduced so it may come to pass later. Theres a scene in the trailer with someone shooting an arrow past Mariko's face and I think it was Buntaro so maybe they will show more of Anjiro next episode.
I do have to give props to the actor playing Yabu, hes sooooo good
Fujiko is definitely and quickly becoming my favorite character in this show for sure.
My guess why the removal of the learn Japanese or die storyline was done for two reasons: 1) It would make Toranaga look like a villain. I guess they believe that people would root AGAINST Toranaga if they included it. 2) I guess they want to keep enough English in the show because English speaking audiences of today don’t seem interested in foreign language shows. I haven’t read the book or seen the 1980 series but I bet much of the English world people would tune out from the show if it went from majority Japanese to 90 percent Japanese.
I think they are trying to do their best to make the stories naturally happen but the problem for them is that they are locked into 10 episodes for an 60 plus chapter Novel. There is no way you could make such a short show without seriously cutting out and speeding stuff up. This show should had been 15 to 20 episodes, but as I have stated before, film studios are not willing to expand their budget for already large shows for that long sadly.
I think from what I can gather this is by itself a good show even with it’s flaws, but the producers should be open with mentioning what and why changes were made.
Also just read some posts about some people thinking this was a slow pace episode until the end. That attitude where western audiences are conditioned for middle pace or faster pace shows to be “slow” really tells me that sadly a lot of people would be tuning out if the show took more of it’s time (which it should had here to make the training of the new cannon crews more realistic, instead of a few days, and the addition of the Japanese learning storyline). Those days were people would willingly watch a mostly silent 2 hour movie on the building of the Sampo seems to be gone nowadays.
@@lembitmoislane. People of TikTok era have a short attention span.
English speaking people have never been interested in foreign shows. We have so many of our own.
@@nont18411 Zoomers aren't watching this show.
You should listen to the official podcast. They explained that "consort" was not the correct translation for Fujiko-san's position. A hatamoto must be a member of a samurai family so Toranaga is marrying Blackthorn into Fuji-san's family. It is why she can give her father's swords to him. She is to run his household as a wife. This is her service and duty to Toranaga-sama.
I suspect this might be similar to what happened to William Adams. A match arranged by Togukawa Ieyasu.
Mariko was the one I was worried about the most for this show. Now it seems she's becoming a problem for reasons I didn't expect she would. This could get interesting...
Was there any nudity in this episode? Trying to avoid with kids
@@noahhorn9382 I'm afraid I don't know. I haven't actually watched it yet. I was going to wait and see if they did with Mariko what I feared before diving into it. Otherwise I wasn't going to waste my time. But that's why I watched the reviews. Can't imagine this as being something kids should see with or without nudity, though
@@noahhorn9382some nudity
@@noahhorn9382 stop spamming this question. You shouldn't be watching this show with kids at all.
@@eodyn7 I’m sorry I just wanted to watch the episode tonight so I figured reaching out to 3 or 4 people would get me a response faster!
I agree with all of your comments in the vid. Pacing and huge holes are worrying, but overall I am still enjoying it. I'm going with the mindset of 'inspired by the book/history' rather than a remake.
One of the reasons I think they're not having him learn Japanese is that they want as much of the show to be in English as possible, as it's directed at an English-speaking audience. If he doesn't speak English, they would have to do the full show in Japanese with subtitles, although in truth, he should be speaking Portugese when he speaks English anyway, lol
Blackthorne is learning Japanese.
@alesh2275 Yeah, but in the book, he would be pretty much fluent by now, but I think they want as much of the show in English as possible
I think you misinterpreted the part where Blackthorne says he hadn’t fought land battles and about the Cannons etc
~tldr~ his way of saying navy was better than army
I think that the point was he doesn’t know anything about land war, but suggests that if they want to use cannons it’s all the better because the Naval fusiliers were far better than their land based colleagues
Ties into why the Japanesers initially thought cannon were inefficient and inaccurate - it wasn’t a naval person using them properly
👆
What was it that Blackthorne ate that he had no obligation to eat?
I think it was fermented soybeans
He was eating natto.
Of all things that natto scene floored me.. Truly an acquired taste If you can get past the smell and the slime. Blackthorn handled it much better than I!
To be honest I also felt more chemistry between Fuji and Blackthorne over Mariko. I didn’t know about Mariko’s real life counterpart, her dad is basically the Benedict Arnold of Japan.
It interesting that you’re pointing out more inaccuracies from the book rather than historical inaccuracy. I hope this means the show is doing a good job of that.
I haven't read the books but I'm LOVING this show. The history and culture of Japan is such a rich source for stories that hasn't been capitalized on at all in western culture. I do wish a bit that it didn't need to have the white guy but so far it's been reasonable as a proxy for western viewers to be introduced to the era.
I think removing the threat to the entire village is a good move, that just seemed so unbelievable in the book it really took me out of the story for a moment. Those peasants represent a lot of potential koku and to kill them right before a war just sounded dumb as hell. I'm not too worried about the Blackthrone/Mariko development, feels like they're waiting for the future you-know-what foil to show up.
Fair point
But it also shows what a bastard Yabu is, so it's more satisfying when he gets his.
@@TheShogunateAs someone who hasnt read the original book or TV series, I think FX's shogun is great. I can understand your perspective of wanting it to be close to the source material, but tbh I believe adding those elements in there (at least in this episode) would've significantly weaken it.
I just finished watching episode 4, I enjoyed it but I also agree the pacing is too fast, I don't know much about William Adamswho Blackthorn is based on so knowing if he participated in a land battle before is unknown to me. The bonding with Mariko and the other woman whose name I can't remember was nice to see. I look forward to more though and what happens next and what Ishido and Toranaga do because of what happened at the end of episode 4.
I see no sense to add that "seppuku and learning the language" fits the story, I dont see he already acknowledge the culture , he needs to experience war and losses to earn that
I have not read the book (although I will after this series is over), and only saw the original series once 20 odd years ago. From that point of view, this was a good episode. There is a lot of character building going on here. I loved the foreshadowing about chained cannon. At first it’s played off as just another bit of training, but the whole time it’s building to seeing it in use.
I have not read nor watched the 1980s version.
What I don't like about this current version is the main actor/character.
And I completely agree with the lack of chemistry between him and Mariko.
The gore and battle action in this episode was owesome, if they keep the same level of gore and pace for future sceanes this might turn into the best looking samurai show, aside from that fujiko has such a likeble face, im glad im not the only one that like her better than mariko.
thanks for your honest review, i love how you dissect this series not only from their historical accuracy but also the differences between this adaptation, the 1980 version, and the original novel. By the way i'm just curious regarding the aftermath of this episode, as you said the killing of Jozen can't be justified as the reason to start the war, but how about Osaka Siege campaign by Tokuguwa? correct me if i'm wrong, wasn't the initial pretext for that campaign is inscription in great bronze bell that shogunate interpreted as an act of treason against them? So how can it be that something "trivial" and "far-fetched" like that become a reason to attack Osaka while killing a messenger that in fact is more than just an insult can't be indentified as such? Sorry for my bad English, i hope i can convey my message clearly to you
In the issue with the bell. I believe it was more seen as an insult again the Tokugawa/Ieyasu so he has proper reason to seek some form of punishment. With Jozen he's just a messenger who was being rude.
how about the episode 1? Tadayoshi outburst regarding Ishido and the council treatment toward Toranaga, what would happen if Toranaga agrees with him?
7:16 concerning the pistols and cannons seem to be fairly accurate from what I can tell. I’m no expert but the flintlock mechanisms on the pistols would have been available. They were starting to be a better and cheaper alternative to the more complicated Wheelock pistols of the same time. Also the cannon look to be Demi-culverins or Sakers which were the common type of medium cannon used in ships and in the field at the time. The weight of the shot and size of the barrel is the determining factor variety of the cannon from my understanding. Sakers firing a 5lbs ball and a Demi-Culverin around 10lbs ball.
While flint and steel firing mechanisms such as the snaplock existed at the time, the classic flintlock style on Blackthorne's pistols wouldn't be invented for another decade, and wouldn't become popular for several more.
I agree with your compalins and see where they are coming from. I think if we didn't know the source and actual history these would be far less. And yeah i think about him and fuji the same. The scene where they exchanged gifts was really a strong one for them. This felt way more strong and binding than him and mariko. Which is strange to me when clearly mariko will be by his side later on. I truly think that by watching more and more this should have rather been a 20eps series. Ep 1 and 2 where great but this seems really a bit rushed
The gun use in the last scene was a Culverin, it's a cannon much slimmer little sister that had better reach and accuracy but lack damage for a siege weapon. John said he was a privateer sailor (fancy word for hired pirate) work for Dutch Indies (VOC), so his ship probably had both guns but it would make sense if they only used the culverin for land used. The samurai already used cannon for decades at this point, but their canons based on Chinese canon are more inferior and the Portuguese doesn't give their best gun for obvious reason 😂
Fujigo is an awesome chick!!
They skipped whole language aspect? What a shame. In the next episode, Blackthorn uses a bit of broken Japanese, but it all feels like natural progression since first episode, just him picking up some frazes. Not a single scene of actively learning.
Why are they changing the names of the characters? You're even calling her "Fujiko," for instance, based on the book and the 1980 series, but they're calling her "Fuji" in this one. Same for Yabu / Yabushige, Yaemon / Yaechiyo, Tsukku / Tsuji for Alvarado, etc.
Every time I end an episode, I'm saying: “Great production but rushing every main event, the 80 show story was so much better with the pacing”. Need to watch the 80 shogun now.
Wait, wouldn't john need to know about seppoku to threaten to commit seppoku? Like, I don't think he learns about it in the show until after the beach party
I think he sort of saw it when yabu was about to do it while drowning.
@@TheShogunateok that makes sense
This is my first ever piece of shogun, and I'm not sure fujiko is in the book or 80s miniseries which brings up a question in my mind.
What will happen to fujiko? Obviously the end goal is Mariko and john, but does fujiko fit?
I mean, if she lives (and I know there's a greater than zero possibility she doesn't. Hopefully it's not a fridging) would she be able to join Mariko and John? I mean, from what I've seen sengoku Japan wasn't the strictest about monogamy. On the other hand, she might fall in love with another character (tho honestly unlikely) or be married off offscreen.
Also, all three have great chemistry (at least to me)