Billy the kid is one the rare western icons where legend and fact were really pretty close.not a cold blooded killer but dealt with many who were and sought to take his life.doesn't get the credit he deserves for standing up to a corrupt system alone.
Your right. Billy the kid was standing up to corrupt people that killed the man that took him in. He dealt with corrupt people ,Only a very few people would help back him up.
According the wikipedia information, I have to agree. When the lawmen were corrupt and commit murders, young people like Billy the kid standing up to corrupt lawmen is commendable. His killing of the corrupt and murderous sheriff was something that had to happen, and Billy the kid had balls to do that. Perhaps Billy the kid was no angel, but likely more principled than his opponents. He could've avoided war after his master's murder if he was simply a hired gunman, but he fought back seeking revenge, meant he had some principles and loyalty to his employer.
The guy in the photo looks nothing like the real verified Billy the Kid, and those computer facial measurement programs always produce false positive results no matter whose face you're analyzing, they're cheap and inaccurate toys, proven so.
@@bottlerocket3218 I think the facial recognition software has it's place, but ultimately a human brain has to be there to make the final call. Yes, it is true that those software can be tricked without too much difficulty.
So many people empathize with Billy the Kid because of the injustice he suffered at the hands of the corrupt legal system. His boss, mentor and father figure was murdered and justice was not done. He took the law into his own hands. He wasn't alone, yet he shouldered most of the blame. The time and place where he lived was brutal and unforgiving. He is a sad and tragic figure in American history.
Not sure how John Tunstall was considered a father figure, more like a brother maybe. Tunstall was 25 when he was killed and Billy was working for him less than 3 months at the time. Billy was about 20 or 21 and was actually working for the other side (Doolan/Murphey) when he was arrested for rustling horses. Tunstall was kind to him while he was in the Lincoln dungeon/jail. He went to work for Tunstall when he got out. That he was loyal is not in doubt.
I agree totally with this post. I can understand Billy's outrage. His employer was giving him and his friends a fair deal and the "Irish Mafia," of Lincoln County killed the man in cold blood. He was one of the few people that gave Bill a life worth living and gainful employment. Billy must've been awfully hurt as well as really angry.
Well done, you even pointed out that the old tin type photos were mirror image, meaning what appeared to be the rifle in the right hand was actually being held in the left and the revolver (and it was a revolver) was actually on his right side. If you look real close at the old tin type, even the vest buttons were on the wrong side, they were on the side of the vest a woman would have them (on the left) the buttons were actually on the right side. Well made video, your research was outstanding. Thank you for that.
@@Razorback2088 this photo is of my uncle Will and Adam Casey. They did indeed live in Lincoln New Mexico at the time of the Lincoln County war, and knew Billy because their mother, Ellen Casey, employed him to help on their ranch. The gentlemen who made this video did a great job of investigation but the photo is not of Billy. It's my uncles, Will and Adam Casey.
Whether it is or isn't I know not, but I'm sure that Billy would be amazed at the interest in his picture. I lived in Lincoln and worked at Fort Stanton in the mid 1970s. I've thought alot about Billy's escapades in my life. I too believe that he got a bum rap because of dishonest politicians and other public officials. History shows that he was a stand up guy who didn't bail on his friends when the chips were down. That's a personality trait that is rare in this day and was probably just as rare then.
There is actually a pretty well developed protocol for comparing photographs like this. It involves taking precise measurements of things like the bottom of the nose to the top of the lip bottom of the nose to the bottom of the lips the distance between the eyes things like that. You have to do it properly, with quantifiable measurements if you want to convince everyone of the authenticity of it.
I am an artist and I make portraits from memory, I don't need to look at subject that I am painting more than once and I don't think that they are the same faces!
The tin type Billy has a thinner nose, and droopier eyes, especially the right eye. The nose in the new photo is way too bulbous and wide to match the tin type. Close, but no cigar. It's not Billy.
I’d agree about the facial features. Also look at the fingers and hands. In the new photo the person alleged to be Billy is healthier looking. Remember Billy was in a few fist fights and the tin type shows it. The family that immigrated to Lincoln County did they come from New York. Billy was born in New York City.
@@calbob750 you're right about the hands, they don't match either. From everything I've read they "believe" Billy came from NY, but there are so few reliable records. Some say he may have been born in Indiana or Missouri, but either way his mother took him west at a very young age.
After researching my family tree and assisting others doing the same, one thing I learned from this experience is how many times I saw photos of a person's great, great grandfather and was shocked at the resemblance between people long since dead vs. their decendents who were currently alive. Sometime there were some amazing resemblances to nephews. I believe there is no way to prove this without doing actual DNA analysis. So I would like to declare that this could very well be a photo of Billy, but it also could very easily not be a photo of Billy. We'll never know without using actual DNA analysis.
I agree these overlay don't prove anything but his research on the family being there ads a bit of the chance it might be him , I'd like to hear more about the family and there relationship with him.
I won't swear to anything - but your efforts produced an excellent reply - yes - it is the Kid . One more way of ID is look at his ears in both photos - exactly the same size , place and pattern . Excellent work !
A friend of mine pointed out the reversed image and the loading gate on the rifle, back in '75. His grandfather saw it years earlier. Its funny how Hollywood made many movies of him being left-handed.
As a pro photographer who uses this technique routinely, I note that while there is much continuity in the registration of superimposed images I also note that the subjects left eye appears considerably different in that it is “raised” higher on the tin image. I am not convinced that the tilt of the head accounts for this…..but am prepared to be wrong. A mystery indeed🧐!
Head tilt may explain the difference in apparent eye height. If you look at the apparent height of the lower left ear lobe compared to the lower right ear lobe in the two hundred percent images at 14:25 and 14:58 you will see a very similar difference. Also, in both images the left eye is less 'squinty' and the right more rounded. The difference in the appearance of the nose is explicable in that it is in bright sunlight in the outdoor picture, having more shadowing and contrast than in the studio tintype. The best way to do the comparison would be to pinpoint features on the face and head and do a comparison of the distance ratios for each image, or simply overlay the resulting lattice networks.
I noticed this too, but thought maybe he was squinting that one eye because of some sort of glare from light. I think it’s him, the posture seems the same in both photos. I guess we won’t ever know for sure.
To me it is very doubtful that it is Billy the Kid. In fact, I am more convinced that the photo examined years early reported on here: ruclips.net/video/kekoxL_Orko/видео.html is Billy.
Just my two cents worth...the only thing that really caught my eye was the mouth. It is well known that Billy had protruding upper front teeth (buck teeth). That is obvious in the tintype and you can actually discern Billy’s front teeth. In the newly discovered photo the mouth is closed not allowing a look at the teeth but the shape of the mouth does not belie buck teeth. If anything the lower lip appears to protrude more than the upper which leads me to believe the subject does not have buck teeth. As much as I would like this to be of Billy I have my doubts. How does this new photo measure up when compared in the same manner to the “croquet” photo?
That was one of my 2 points. The other that the new photo shows a bulbous nose, but the tintype shows a noticeably slimmer nose. I'm pretty sure that Billy didn't see an orthodontist or a plastic surgeon in the 1880s. I wonder if they've used any facial recognition software on these pics.
Yes for me too the mouth in the newer one seems wider as well; I know relaxed my mouth is wider than pursed, but in the tin type he just appears to be a mouth breather and isn't trying to talk or otherwise make the shape smaller.
This makes no sense, I have buck teeth (and a major gap, as my mom does) and my lower lip protrudes out. Note I’m African American but I’m positive race has nothing to do with it, genetics does.
I played and re-played the merging over and over again, and I noticed that the mouths were an almost exact match, including what is visible of the teeth. My opinion is they are the same person, just in a slightly different pose and in different lighting (one outdoors, the other inside).
The tin type has always been known to be a very unflattering picture of billy because of movement, but the way you did the overlay convinced me…regulators mount up !!
That's Democratic speech and of course it was learned on Facebook LOL you don't think that platform separating the people as a whole do you and a little organizations with an agenda yeah me neither we're just tripping
@Paul Waldrop You can neither confirm nor deny the presence of any Mr. The Kid here. I concur your certificate of experience by my equal and opportunistic wit & unsinkable enthusiasm. Good day sir!
Interestingly, the author never mentions the similarity of ears. In both photos, the right ear sticks out more than the left-- caused by the hat or natural physically, they too are nearly identical. That was the final proof to me in addition to the similar facial recognition. Good video.
You are wrong, the ears are significantly different between the two photos. In the accepted photo of Billy the Kid, the right ear is larger and extends lower on his head, even with the upper corner of his mouth. In the newly found photo, the ear is smaller and further up the head, only extending to the level of the nostrils. They are not the same person.
We went from one picture of Billy the Kid standing with a rifle, to pictures of him playing croquet, playing poker, sitting behind Pat Garrett, standing with two unknown men. standing with one unknown male, sitting next to an unknown male, and standing, alone, next to a chair. The resemblance of the man playing poker and the man sitting with an arm on a pillow next to a standing, unknown man are closest to the one picture known to be Billy the Kid. Like stated by another commenter, he had buck teeth and his mouth, opened or closed, evidenced this profoundly. With all the time, from start to finish, it took to actually pose for, and have a tin type taken, how did he find the time to be an outlaw? The process was akin to the bird pecking an image into a stone slab on the Flintstones, but the bird was faster.
After reading about "Billy the Kid". I had more respect for his anger. He was mistreated many times that stimulated this anger and outrage. Many times he was protecting himself and was condemn for it. I don't agree with the outrage, but I can understand why he acted out.
Really? Everything I've read and heard about him points to a guy that couldn't stay out or away from trouble. He started out as a teen stealing and getting into trouble with worse and worse men. He went looking for trouble. I don't think it was anger as much as it was revenge for killing a friend, that and loyalty to the men he was riding with. Sure he got mad, but it wasn't righteous anger in my book. I don't even think it was justified in most cases. He was just a guy that was good with a gun and had no boundaries. He would let it take him wherever it did and to hell with everything else. That area of New Mexico was EXTREMELY corrupt. The local and state and even some federal officials were all on the take. The Sherriff was just a lackey for the Doolan/Murphey ring and Billy originally worked for them. Tunstall convinced him to work for the other side. So, he was in the thick of things from the beginning but chose to stay active in the war. Any of those men could've left but didn't. I think they just loved to fight.
I think it is Billy. I think you've shown some pretty compelling evidence. The facial features line up with reasonable accommodations allowing differences for photographic techniques. The shape of the neck and shoulders are spot on.
My family are McCarty's from County Cork in Ireland. Every St. Patrick's day I think of William McCarty. As time passes I hope to learn as much as possible about William. Not much in my family history about him. RIP Billy.
@Sonjingohan 0 I wondered about that too. It might be lighting - one photo was outdoors and the other was probably in a studio. The nose is slightly different.
movement causing distortions,were not avoidable,in the old tin types,Even if you could stand perfectly still!,you still have to breath! exposure times not like even antique later cameras,and tin type still used up to the turn of the century exposure time was about 3 seconds.
Ok. Looking at this video few times. I see the similarities in the body. The face may have some differences cause one picture was taken indoors and the others was taken outdoors with the sun in his face. Therefore.. there may be different on facial figures. Specially on the nose and eyes. But something made me scratch my head while looking at this and is convincing me as well that this could be Billy the Kid. #1. The Adam’s apple in the throat. They both share the same Adam’s apple and that cannot be hidden by sun light or environment. #2. They both have the same hat. Billy was known to have unique hat at the time. Overall... this could be “Billy the kid” unless there’s another kid with the same body fixtures and Adam’s apple with the same hat. Good video.
To me, that is in my opinion, neither the eye brows nor the nose align with each other. You made some good points, I agree. But I'd like to be able to critique the finer details before making an assessment. But, I thank you So Much for bringing this material up front and presented to us all. What you've done is commendable, for sure. Again, Thank You Sincerely.
Bingo. For me it was his right eye that immediately struck me: He had a characteristic squint and raised eyebrow clearly visible in the scaled photo comparisons, which is especially impressive in consideration of the fact that his eyes would have to be slightly distorted in the tin-type due to the extremely long exposure; it's just damned difficult to impossible to keep your eyes perfectly still and you have no control whatsoever over the dilation of your pupils. Heck, it even looks like he could be wearing the very same hat in both photos. Very cool.
The resemblance is there. It's very convincing. Old photos are hard to work with. But technology helps. I would say yes. Only question I have is how was he when the photos were taken? People do age and if it is him obviously he was younger when the photo was taken. Truly "The Kid".
I agree with your sentiment. I do believe it the Afterlife and in their ability to see what's going on here. I would like to think he is content with so many people today that are believing him and of his longer life lived. Brushy Bill's face and the tintype was matched as being the same person with today's use of Facial Recognition. That's saying a lot! Of course their's diehard non-believers out there, too.
The photograph is a dead ringer for an old newspaper or wanted poster I remember seeing somewhere of 'William H. Bonney'. Bear in mind, the confirmed photo with the Winchester was of Billy after a few days of rough trail riding-he might have been halfway sloshed and decided a picture would be a grand idea. This was also when he was a wanted man and had 'matured' quite a bit. The one in question seems to show an innocent young man before he went renegade. When I look at both photos I get the sense of a mischievous, fun loving type that matches contemporary accounts of BTK being a jovial, wonderful sense of humor type which he got from his mother.
Your correct on everything, I would like to point out , to my knowledge there was never actually a wanted picture of Billy the kid. Just a small reward for 500.00 from governor Lewis Wallace. Most of the time people didn't know what someone looked like , back then, it took someone that knew yhe person to capture them.
@@jimmyknight1609 I've said the same thing about most people not being able to recognize someone back then. All they had to go by (especially in days earlier than this) was usually a line drawing. Some people arrested as pirates could easily have been the wrong person, as with Edward Teach and Stede Bonnet in 1718. If they even slightly changed their looks (haircut, clothes) they would not be recognized. The same holds true of people in the old west. I also thought about that with John Wilkes Booth. If he had walked by most people back then, they would not have known who he was.
The tintype photo of Billy looks like he might have had a few drinks because he looks more relaxed. Both photos are probably him but who knows. I have 5 photos of my grandfather who was born in the 1800's and he looks different in every one.
Exactly, I replied I have pictures of myself that could pass as someone else to people that doesn't know me that well. In some pictures I was tired from working and shadows, and other things taken into consideration. What I am saying, is, I looked different in pictures taken a week to a month apart, much less a year.
I have many photos of my great grandfather. High school , WW1 thru 1974 before his death all are different as far as appearance , clothing , facial hair etc.
I think it took about 15-20min to take a tintype. People had to use head braces in order to remain still for that length of time, and any movement could case blurriness or distortion. Also, tintypes are reverse image.
The tintype BTK looks like his face has been beaten senseless 100x over and then to make it worse a wagon wheel ran over his head a few times and then was kicked in the face by a horse. The BTK in the tintype clearly has a crooked face (features) and it’s not because his head is tilted because it’s not tilted much, the hat is tilted and is throwing it off. Is the tintype an older or younger BTK? Imo they are similar, but extremely different. We don’t even know 100% if the tintype is even BTK.
I definitely agree with you. That's Billy The Kid!!! That process you did was freaking amazing!!! There is not a doubt in my mind that this is Billy!! Now you need to compare this one to some pictures that are known to be Brushy Bill Roberts and see if you can find any similarities there!!!
Should have put the face's in full view next to each other. That would have done more then the slow overlay. The slow overlay stops a person from seeing differences. It blurs them into what you want people to see. Looking at the cheekbones and fetchers around the mouth, eyes, chin, forehead. It does look like the same person in the tintype. Also your title should say Billy the Kid picture mystery solved.
They have been playing young guns and young guns 2 over and over on tv . Now we know that Lou Diamond Phillips and Keifer Sutherland's characters did not die in gunfights but they lived long lives . I agree with multiple comments on here about BTK . He like most of the regulators were like modern day ppl who struggle to make ends meet , all they knew was street wisdom and surviving the best they knew how . Life did not give them a choice , and bc they avenged the death of Mr. Tunstall , bc they defended themselves from the hired scum of the crooked ass bully land baron and did not blend in with the rich pigs and real pieces of shit in that society, they automatically were assumed guilty and had death tags on their heads . They were not outlaws, the man made law was not made for them and they stood up to it and refused to back down. They became famous for being killers as news reported back then but to me they became Legends for standing up for their beliefs, forming a family of outcasts that society looked down on . They are trailblazers and like Bon Jovi they went out in " A Blaze of Glory " . Regulators 4 Life. Sometimes you have to invoke your own form of justice to survive .
Crazy to see him age almost. Those were hard times and I'm sure even harder being on the run where everywhere you could go someone was waiting to kill you. In between those places were tribes that didn't care who you were. He seems to lose weight and his face looks harder and eyes get more piercing. I like it. It gets my vote as a lifelong fan of his! Who is the other guy supposed to be?
My sister does facial recognition sketches for missing person age progression, wanted suspect etc and she thinks its the same. If you put more center lines on nose mouth eyes the spaces dont change. These features can differ on identical twins but not this photo. Pic with gun is photo lighting so shrinks the edges of nose compared to sunlight contrast. Whether its billy or not its highly likely its the same person body proportion matches too.
Wow! I agree, it has to be Billy. Hes even wearing the same hat. Its at a bit of a different angle, but I notice what seems to be a unique hatband and it appears to be the same in both images. Also, the ears seem to be on the same level, albeit, a bit different but the difference in the ears and hat, from pic to pic us the difference in head angle. It amazes me that just when you think youve seen the last evidence, something new crops up. Well done on the verification!
Take into account the pictures were most likely taken at two different times, maybe years apart and the fact that the eyes in the photo of Billy with his pistol were slanted just like eyes the authinticated photo of Billy. Also that they were taken at two different distances. This may explain the slight differences in placement of his facial features. Overall who's to say, however in my opinion it is the same person. Billy the Kid
Billy or not..its still a boy that was 16 years old that stood up to what he belived was corruption .and they killed his boss that took him in..rest in peace Billy
I'm convinced. It could even conceivably be argued that he's wearing the same hat, the tintype photo coming later after it had seen more wear and tear. The right ear is the same (once the tintype has been reversed to reflect the proper view). Someone commented on the mouth not being the same, with the original tintype clearly showing his prominent buck teeth, but I disagree; it's been my experience that people with an overbite, when their mouth is closed their lower lip protrudes, and that can be seen by the shadow created by the lower lip in the new photo. It's subtle, but there nonetheless. I believe this one is much easier to see the similarities than the croquet photo..
That makes it even more amazing to find a photo that shows him as younger and then to do everything over with the print whatever you call it anyways I I believe it is him that's amazing
I believe it is Billy. The eyes were almost identical, as was the body type. shoulders, etc. A jawline can become rounded as just a few pounds are gained. The 2 photos are too much alike not to be him. One would have to look far and wide for someone who looked so much like Billy. Great job you did. Thanks.
Looks totally different! The person in the tin type photo has a narrower head, cheeks and jaw line. The browridge is not only in a different place, but of a different shape too. The fact you have put a grid on the other picture only serves to emphasize these points even more! But I thankyou for your views and opinions and for sharing.
It's also the same hat tilted slightly different from the known photo of Billy. The hats are the same in both pictures. I'm convinced they are the same person.
Just a thought, Billy the kid may have been a girl. He wasnt a kid, he was fully grown. He was small, light weight, sloping shoulders, small bones, delicate face. His schoolmates said he didnt play rough games with the boys.
When he says the eyes are a bit different because of the tilt of the head, funny how the other eye seems to stay in the exact same place, only one eye really moves. But the tilt of the head, oookk
I agree, tilt the head and the jaw line would move also. The slow blend worked in his favor, a 100% back and forth, over and over would have been better, but that is why I think he used the slow blend
I have met like 15 people or so in my life telling me that they were the direct descendant of Billy The Kid or Jesse James. Man, I swear, some people got their info wrong or those guys got around quiet a lot back in their day.
15? I have met about 40 even using NY as proof for billy the kid pointing out him and his mom left when he was a kid forget how many I hear are descendants of kings and queens of europe but live in Montana
Unless Billy had a twin, it's got to be him! I've seen a very similar software, if not the same, used on a forensic show tp ID a skull to a missing person's photograph.
That evidence is not allowed in courts anymore because its not accurate enough. Just because two things may look similar to the human eye does not mean it is scientifically accurate. The human eye likes to make things fit together, especially familiar things like faces.
You’ll notice he doesn’t mention the nose, that’s because it doesn’t match. One is a lot broader than the other and has a different shape to the end and the nostrils. Definitely not the same person
Two things 1 The ears it is difficult to see in this video but the ears look different could be a trick of the lighting. 2. Who is that beside him? Is it one of the regulators or one of the white citizens from that area and time. 3 Where is it? These are questions the Billy the kid playing croquet photo owners had to answer to authenticate their picture. But it’s a nice mystery that needs to be addressed. Thanks for the video. I will be looking for more on this B.T.K. photo.
I think the guy next to him is his brother Joe. If you look at his known photo as an old man, there is a good resemblance in the face. I think between this photo, the croquet photo, and the tintype, it's all the same person and we now know what Billy looked like.
Very good work. One thing that would of been good to see, and give us a good reference point to start from, is that you should of merged the authenticated Billy the kid picture with the other guy standing next to him first. That way we could of seen the difference in the features of the two people in that photograph, as they merged. And made a good comparison between them. But good job overall. 👍
Billy according to reports was better looking than the tin type ..It wasn't his best shot ..it's blurred .which accounts for teeth , nose and eyebrows. .If you see a picture of his Mom then look at this ..It's a possibility .His Hat looks pretty much the same but I'm not an expert.
It’s a really interesting piece of work, an I thank you for posting it! It’s incredibly interesting, the work you have done, overlaying the two photos and looking for a link to Lincoln County! My doubt, however, is the provenance of the photograph itself. Where has it come from? Where was the shot taken, et al? But a brilliant effort nevertheless.
This is really stretching to say the photo lineup is a match !! At 70 per cent it really shows they are not the same persons.jawline really changes, eyes and socket completely diff. I wish it was but its just too diff !
I think the guy in your photo has a much bigger nose. Billy seems to have a "charm" in his eyes that your guy lacks. I say its pretty close but no cigar.
To me the definition of size is lost in the tin type photo to darkness as for the look in hIs eyes did you take into account that he's facing the sun causing him to squint some. Also in the tin type he is posing with all his guns and regalia giving him a swagger that he doesn't have when he's just posing un armed with another person.
Rob Tolley, Pat Garrett who was supposedly a one time friend of Billy who ended up murdering the Kid in an ambush killing. The site where it happened (Pete Maxwell's ranch) was full of Billy the Kid supporters and I'm guessing Pat didn't want to rub salt into the wounds of the already pissed off Billy supporters by propping his dead body up and posing with it. There was a wake that was held by his friends who washed and dressed the Kid's dead body. I imagine Pauletta Maxwell (Billy's girlfriend) came and seen what happened and started going crazy on Pete and his two deputies. Pat was outgunned, and maybe remorseful and wanted it over as much as everybody else and didn't prolong it any further.
@@mikebrooks1620 makes sense,i guess I just want to believe the kid lived a long life,but in reality even in the 1800's your not going to assume a name and not get recognized especially Billy
To me the nose appears different in size and the orbital balance of the eyes is off as well. Billy’s left eye is noticeably higher in the original photo and his nose is narrower in the original.
If you read Garrett's story of Billy and other contemporaneous writers, they all say Billy had a pronounced overbite. I see a dominant lower lip in the new photo.
I don't think Garrett killed Billy because apparently him and the other 2 sheriffs didn't actually see him shoot Billy, it was dark out and garrett only recognised his voice saying he knew it was Billy one other sheriff never seen Billy before and the other sheriff knew him slightly but apparently none actually confirmed it was Billy beside garret , who probably wanted the reward money.
@@billjohnson9191 yeah exactly it was common practice to photo graph who you killed if you are in law enforcement during that time. Jesse James was photographed as where others. It doesn't make sense he wasn't photographed. Garret and poe where masons so poe would cover and say garrert killed him but eventually everyone present at that time even admitted years later that Garrett had killed the wrong man. Who knows what happened to Billy whether Garrett let him go or never found him, I think he killed the wrong man and got everyone there to cover for him because he was afraid he would get in trouble or killed for killing the wrong man. Doesn't make sense for a sheriff to shoot and kill someone they cant even see because they wouldn't be able to properly identify the target. There are too many fallacies in Garretts accounts. Plus he wrote a book about Billy the kid and also made some money from alleging he killed him. I don't think Garrett killed Billy on that day.
You're not thinking critically...there could be 5-8 or more years between the pics, weight fluctuations do happen along with one pic being a more mature/filled out face with age. Also slight angle variances or head tilt have to be brought into the thought process. With all the common-sense facts the narrator brought to the table...location, number of white males in Lincoln between 17-29...kinda makes it clear, but perpetual sceptics will doubt no matter what one shows them.
100@@b80-s9i Sorry but your argument is speculative at best. Anyone who has eyes must 100 per cent agree that this is NOT Billy the Kid! The very demeanour of the person in this picture shows more savvy than the real Billy the Kid. Whoever bought this picture I hope didn't pay very much for it. To try and create bad feelings so that people will not give their opinions by calling them "perpetual sceptics," is cheap and disingenuous! It speaks volumes to your character! The truth is that this is NOT Billy the kid, period! Truth should always prevail!
@@mykkie100 all due respect, Michael. If YOU know for a fact that this is NOT, one, William H. Bonney...Prove it beyond a reasonable doubt! You have criticized another for, somewhat of an arrogant statement. So...are you not the same if YOU can't prove that it is not w/o a shread of scientific proof? Just sayin, Hoss!🤔
When he presented the picture of the two men I said to myself no way that looked like Billy the kid but when he zoomed in I started to see it did line up with the real picture of Billy the kid. I googled Wikipedia and Pat Garrett fired at a person in the dark room and killing him thinking it was Billy and when they turned the body over some say it wasn't Billy. In 1950 a man in his 90's came forward and said he was Billy the kid. To prove it all of his scars lined up where Billy was shot and knifed before. The man that claimed he was Billy died a short time later.
Great video, you really have me convinced this really could be Billy. Everything lines up as you say, but you forgot to mention something extremely important. Check out the shape, angle and length of his right hand thumb and trigger finger. They're a virtual perfect match.
The one thing I noticed consistently is that his right ear stuck out farther than his left ear in both images. If the tintype is Billy, then the cabinet card is most definitely him as well.
I'm not saying the picture ain't from the same historical era at least not from they they were dressed, but the face still looks different from the Winchester picture. The height of Billy the Kid's body would not be that unusual from the 19th Century.
This is remarkable, and certainly makes a strong case. I’d add a couple more similarities. Forensic investigators use earlobes to ID people, and if you watch the final head-only fade back to the new photo, the lobes look to match to me. Second. The hats appear to be identical. Sidebar: on the croquet shot, I’ve seen the Nat Geo doc, which makes a convincing case (although the naysayers do as well). However, I never noticed that the authenticated photo has Billy in a sweater with dark, baggy sleeves. Same with the croquet shot. Maybe not the identical sweater, but maybe from the same knitting pattern? Fascinating.
My opinion is , Billy the kid was the good guy disregarding legal means to a resolve in fighting corruption. he kinda stumbled into it . brave and intelligent young man. r.i.p. billy.
My aunt did a genealogy research on our family and we are related to Billy the Kid which makes me so proud! He was deceived and bush whacked and absolutely ambushed by his former friend Pat Garrett. Not sadly Pat Garrett was ambushed as well. RIP Billy the Kid. I am proud to be your relative
I'd say it's Billy. The features did match up and like you said there couldn't be a bunch of similar people at that time in that area due to such a small population. Also the authenticated photo is of such poor quality that the nose can't really be distinguished as being different like so many people say it is because of the bad photo. Also even if a few features look different you have to realize that not everybody got 3 meals a day back then. Most were lucky to have one, and weight loss or gain even 20 pounds can really make a person's features appear different. But comparing the photos like you did proves it to me. Too many exact measurements to not be him.
Thank you, I was thinking the exact same thing! So many people here are saying the jawline looks different. The appearance of a person's face can change quite a bit if they have gained or lost weight, particularly in the cheeks and jaw area. A famous 1800's outlaw on the lam isn't likely to get 3 squares at all times. It's funny how many people aren't considering this.
In the tin type the head is slightly tilted. That tilt of the head doesn't compensate for the eye and eyebrow on the right side of head in photo is dramatically higher than on the left side. The guy in the tin type has an asymmetrical face. The guy in the photo doesn't have that abnormality. Not the same two people.
I've worked in photoshop since version 2 came out, photo restorations etc. There are some photos out there of the authenticated version that have been cleaned up rather nicely. I would encourage the same comparison with the improved version of the photo. That said, I think the man in the second photo (while agreeing with your observation) appears to have a bigger and broader nose than the authenticated version. This of course could mean little as ears and noses tend to grow throughout our entire lives and weight and age can play a role between the two pictures as well. Im not 100% convinced it is him in both photos, but at the same time, I am not 100% convinced that it is not either. I enjoyed the theory regardless.
It's funny that you mentioned the nose specifically because after viewing the entire layover process multiple times the nose was the one and only feature that my eyes (perspective) and my mind couldn't reconcile as being one in the same. It also seems to me that a pretty significant and key piece of information is missing from the video. The approximate year in which the black and white photo was taken. This bothers me because we know the approximate year the tin type was taken, as well as Billy's age in the photo. So, without the estimated year in which the B&W photo was taken we cannot assign any reasonable assumptions or conclusions as to the whether the slight differences in the two subjects can be explained by the passing of time. Keeping in mind the more obvious differences in the photos such as overall quality, lighting, clothing, weaponry (one present and one presumably holstered), the slight angle of the man standing in the black and white photo and lastly the fact that in the tin type Billy's head is tilted slightly back and to the right, the nose remains the only aspect of either photo that leaves me questioning whether the photo in question is indeed William H. Bonney.
@@southey55gaming71 The photo comparisons seen here: ruclips.net/video/kekoxL_Orko/видео.html with a different photo is more convincing than this one to me.
Although there is no proof that is Billy the Kid two men looking exactly the same being around the same age is highly improbable not only looking the same but being virtually a double
I spent 24 years on the PD, over those years, I became quite adept at identifying suspects both from photo's and from sketches. In my opinion, for what it's worth they are different people. Now don't get me wrong, if you want to keep your claim going, more power to you, but to me, not the same dude. I have always had a great interest in Billy the Kid, growing up in the 50's and 60's you had to have hero's and the movies made Billy one of the greats despite the fact he was classed an outlaw by the corrupt lawmen of the time. I do know a bit about corruption as well, having served in a city where corruption, while on a small scale, ran the city, from the Mayor's office down to the guy who ran the street sweeper. I kept my Police Department clean and was removed from my position as Chief when I refused to alter arrests of the corrupt city fathers buddies. It cost the City 3 months severance to see me out the door without making my situation known to the press, which was, in reality just about as corrupt as the Mayor and his lapdogs.
Unless Billy the Kid had a fraternal twin, I'm convinced that the two photos are of the same person. This is the first time I've seen "The Kid" up close.
I am quite sure you are right. As a former seaman I look at the nose as well. Many young guys get a broken nose and in both photographs we see the same crooked nose. Same direction, to the right as so many and very remarkable the same "intensity" (!)
![20 Things You Didn't Know About Old Henry [2021]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/WrS37nQy3j4/mqdefault.jpg)
Billy the kid is one the rare western icons where legend and fact were really pretty close.not a cold blooded killer but dealt with many who were and sought to take his life.doesn't get the credit he deserves for standing up to a corrupt system alone.
Your right. Billy the kid was standing up to corrupt people that killed the man that took him in. He dealt with corrupt people ,Only a very few people would help back him up.
According the wikipedia information, I have to agree. When the lawmen were corrupt and commit murders, young people like Billy the kid standing up to corrupt lawmen is commendable. His killing of the corrupt and murderous sheriff was something that had to happen, and Billy the kid had balls to do that. Perhaps Billy the kid was no angel, but likely more principled than his opponents. He could've avoided war after his master's murder if he was simply a hired gunman, but he fought back seeking revenge, meant he had some principles and loyalty to his employer.
The guy in the photo looks nothing like the real verified Billy the Kid, and those computer facial measurement programs always produce false positive results no matter whose face you're analyzing, they're cheap and inaccurate toys, proven so.
@@bottlerocket3218 I think the facial recognition software has it's place, but ultimately a human brain has to be there to make the final call. Yes, it is true that those software can be tricked without too much difficulty.
Could use a few men with his character to stand up to today's corruption .
So many people empathize with Billy the Kid because of the injustice he suffered at the hands of the corrupt legal system. His boss, mentor and father figure was murdered and justice was not done. He took the law into his own hands. He wasn't alone, yet he shouldered most of the blame. The time and place where he lived was brutal and unforgiving. He is a sad and tragic figure in American history.
still goes on now
Not sure how John Tunstall was considered a father figure, more like a brother maybe. Tunstall was 25 when he was killed and Billy was working for him less than 3 months at the time. Billy was about 20 or 21 and was actually working for the other side (Doolan/Murphey) when he was arrested for rustling horses. Tunstall was kind to him while he was in the Lincoln dungeon/jail. He went to work for Tunstall when he got out. That he was loyal is not in doubt.
Man Plez do research Henry lived at Tunstalls home as a hand nuthing more Charles was like a brother and the one that looked at Tunstall as a father
@@onlythewise1
How'd you like a steel-toed boot jammed up your ass, dork?
I agree totally with this post. I can understand Billy's outrage. His employer was giving him and his friends a fair deal and the "Irish Mafia," of Lincoln County killed the man in cold blood. He was one of the few people that gave Bill a life worth living and gainful employment. Billy must've been awfully hurt as well as really angry.
Well done, you even pointed out that the old tin type photos were mirror image, meaning what appeared to be the rifle in the right hand was actually being held in the left and the revolver (and it was a revolver) was actually on his right side. If you look real close at the old tin type, even the vest buttons were on the wrong side, they were on the side of the vest a woman would have them (on the left) the buttons were actually on the right side. Well made video, your research was outstanding. Thank you for that.
The Winchester clearly shows the photo is flipped.
@@normanbraslow7902 Well, it is obviously a tin type so the fact that it is mirror image was never questioned. So, that was not a new revelation.
@@Razorback2088 this photo is of my uncle Will and Adam Casey. They did indeed live in Lincoln New Mexico at the time of the Lincoln County war, and knew Billy because their mother, Ellen Casey, employed him to help on their ranch. The gentlemen who made this video did a great job of investigation but the photo is not of Billy. It's my uncles, Will and Adam Casey.
Whether it is or isn't I know not, but I'm sure that Billy would be amazed at the interest in his picture. I lived in Lincoln and worked at Fort Stanton in the mid 1970s. I've thought alot about Billy's escapades in my life. I too believe that he got a bum rap because of dishonest politicians and other public officials. History shows that he was a stand up guy who didn't bail on his friends when the chips were down. That's a personality trait that is rare in this day and was probably just as rare then.
Sad to hear he died so young....He really wasn't much more than 'a kid'...
He was an alpha male and the last time I heard that wasn't against the law,top guy,imagine meeting him and getting drunk,playing cards.
The Killing of Frank Cahill was classed as unjustifiable homicide by a CORONERS JURY, he would have hanger for that alone !!!! how is that a bum rap ?
Hence the knick name lol
There is actually a pretty well developed protocol for comparing photographs like this. It involves taking precise measurements of things like the bottom of the nose to the top of the lip bottom of the nose to the bottom of the lips the distance between the eyes things like that. You have to do it properly, with quantifiable measurements if you want to convince everyone of the authenticity of it.
I am an artist and I make portraits from memory, I don't need to look at subject that I am painting more than once and I don't think that they are the same faces!
Pffffttttt This looks nothing like Emilio Estevez.
Good one🤔😐😁😂🤣😃😄😅😆😉😊
Lol
Who cares!!! Emilio gave an amazing performance.
Lol stupid.. Funny stuff
Lmfao that's funny
The tin type Billy has a thinner nose, and droopier eyes, especially the right eye. The nose in the new photo is way too bulbous and wide to match the tin type. Close, but no cigar. It's not Billy.
100% agree
Agreed. Billy's ear sticks out a lot more as well. Doesn't look like the same guy to me.
He is screwing up his mouth and nose as if about to sneeze
I’d agree about the facial features. Also look at the fingers and hands. In the new photo the person alleged to be Billy is healthier looking. Remember Billy was in a few fist fights and the tin type shows it. The family that immigrated to Lincoln County did they come from New York. Billy was born in New York City.
@@calbob750 you're right about the hands, they don't match either. From everything I've read they "believe" Billy came from NY, but there are so few reliable records. Some say he may have been born in Indiana or Missouri, but either way his mother took him west at a very young age.
After researching my family tree and assisting others doing the same, one thing I learned from this experience is how many times I saw photos of a person's great, great grandfather and was shocked at the resemblance between people long since dead vs. their decendents who were currently alive. Sometime there were some amazing resemblances to nephews. I believe there is no way to prove this without doing actual DNA analysis. So I would like to declare that this could very well be a photo of Billy, but it also could very easily not be a photo of Billy. We'll never know without using actual DNA analysis.
In pictures, my grandpa and I look identical at 17. Any pictures of me at 3 and my oldest son are identical. It is amazing.
I agree these overlay don't prove anything but his research on the family being there ads a bit of the chance it might be him , I'd like to hear more about the family and there relationship with him.
Yep. Once I saw a picture of my great grandfather I knew where I got my nose from.
I won't swear to anything - but your efforts produced an excellent reply - yes - it is the Kid . One more way of ID is look at his ears in both photos - exactly the same size , place and pattern . Excellent work !
A friend of mine pointed out the reversed image and the loading gate on the rifle, back in '75. His grandfather saw it years earlier. Its funny how Hollywood made many movies of him being left-handed.
He was ambidextrous if I recall correctly.
You have convinced me Mark. The photo you're referring to is Billy. Great work!
I believe with about 90% certainty that this is a photo of 'Billy The Kid'. Wonderful explanation, &compelling proof! Well done 🖒🖒
Well done sir. Very convincing procedure you went thru. If it looks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck and so on.
As a pro photographer who uses this technique routinely, I note that while there is much continuity in the registration of superimposed images I also note that the subjects left eye appears considerably different in that it is “raised” higher on the tin image. I am not convinced that the tilt of the head accounts for this…..but am prepared to be wrong.
A mystery indeed🧐!
The nose appears to be more slender on the tintype
Head tilt may explain the difference in apparent eye height. If you look at the apparent height of the lower left ear lobe compared to the lower right ear lobe in the two hundred percent images at 14:25 and 14:58 you will see a very similar difference. Also, in both images the left eye is less 'squinty' and the right more rounded.
The difference in the appearance of the nose is explicable in that it is in bright sunlight in the outdoor picture, having more shadowing and contrast than in the studio tintype.
The best way to do the comparison would be to pinpoint features on the face and head and do a comparison of the distance ratios for each image, or simply overlay the resulting lattice networks.
In the confirmed picture it looks like he is recovering from a bad beating with the way his left eye is.
I noticed this too, but thought maybe he was squinting that one eye because of some sort of glare from light. I think it’s him, the posture seems the same in both photos. I guess we won’t ever know for sure.
To me it is very doubtful that it is Billy the Kid. In fact, I am more convinced that the photo examined years early reported on here: ruclips.net/video/kekoxL_Orko/видео.html is Billy.
Just my two cents worth...the only thing that really caught my eye was the mouth. It is well known that Billy had protruding upper front teeth (buck teeth). That is obvious in the tintype and you can actually discern Billy’s front teeth. In the newly discovered photo the mouth is closed not allowing a look at the teeth but the shape of the mouth does not belie buck teeth. If anything the lower lip appears to protrude more than the upper which leads me to believe the subject does not have buck teeth. As much as I would like this to be of Billy I have my doubts. How does this new photo measure up when compared in the same manner to the “croquet” photo?
That was one of my 2 points. The other that the new photo shows a bulbous nose, but the tintype shows a noticeably slimmer nose. I'm pretty sure that Billy didn't see an orthodontist or a plastic surgeon in the 1880s.
I wonder if they've used any facial recognition software on these pics.
Thank you
Agreed!!! That's exactly what I thought
Yes for me too the mouth in the newer one seems wider as well; I know relaxed my mouth is wider than pursed, but in the tin type he just appears to be a mouth breather and isn't trying to talk or otherwise make the shape smaller.
This makes no sense, I have buck teeth (and a major gap, as my mom does) and my lower lip protrudes out. Note I’m African American but I’m positive race has nothing to do with it, genetics does.
I played and re-played the merging over and over again, and I noticed that the mouths were an almost exact match, including what is visible of the teeth. My opinion is they are the same person, just in a slightly different pose and in different lighting (one outdoors, the other inside).
The ears also matched.
The tin type has always been known to be a very unflattering picture of billy because of movement, but the way you did the overlay convinced me…regulators mount up !!
Being a Facebook certified expert, on pretty much everything, I do hereby declare that this may, or may not be, Billy the Kid.
That's Democratic speech and of course it was learned on Facebook LOL you don't think that platform separating the people as a whole do you and a little organizations with an agenda yeah me neither we're just tripping
Has one more thing Billy used to kill people for speaking like that that's hacking
@Paul Waldrop
You can neither confirm nor deny the presence of any Mr. The Kid here.
I concur your certificate of experience by my equal and opportunistic wit & unsinkable enthusiasm.
Good day sir!
Not !
😆 🤣 😂
Interestingly, the author never mentions the similarity of ears. In both photos, the right ear sticks out more than the left-- caused by the hat or natural physically, they too are nearly identical. That was the final proof to me in addition to the similar facial recognition. Good video.
One ear sticks out way more than the other photo.
First thing I noticed was the sloping shoulders. They are at the same angle in both pictures.
I saw that too and said yep, that's him
You are wrong, the ears are significantly different between the two photos. In the accepted photo of Billy the Kid, the right ear is larger and extends lower on his head, even with the upper corner of his mouth. In the newly found photo, the ear is smaller and further up the head, only extending to the level of the nostrils. They are not the same person.
We went from one picture of Billy the Kid standing with a rifle, to pictures of him playing croquet, playing poker, sitting behind Pat Garrett, standing with two unknown men. standing with one unknown male, sitting next to an unknown male, and standing, alone, next to a chair.
The resemblance of the man playing poker and the man sitting with an arm on a pillow next to a standing, unknown man are closest to the one picture known to be Billy the Kid. Like stated by another commenter, he had buck teeth and his mouth, opened or closed, evidenced this profoundly.
With all the time, from start to finish, it took to actually pose for, and have a tin type taken, how did he find the time to be an outlaw?
The process was akin to the bird pecking an image into a stone slab on the Flintstones, but the bird was faster.
I think the playing croquet one is the only other real one.
After reading about "Billy the Kid". I had more respect for his anger. He was mistreated many times that stimulated this anger and outrage. Many times he was protecting himself and was condemn for it. I don't agree with the outrage, but I can understand why he acted out.
Really? Everything I've read and heard about him points to a guy that couldn't stay out or away from trouble. He started out as a teen stealing and getting into trouble with worse and worse men. He went looking for trouble.
I don't think it was anger as much as it was revenge for killing a friend, that and loyalty to the men he was riding with. Sure he got mad, but it wasn't righteous anger in my book. I don't even think it was justified in most cases. He was just a guy that was good with a gun and had no boundaries. He would let it take him wherever it did and to hell with everything else.
That area of New Mexico was EXTREMELY corrupt. The local and state and even some federal officials were all on the take. The Sherriff was just a lackey for the Doolan/Murphey ring and Billy originally worked for them. Tunstall convinced him to work for the other side. So, he was in the thick of things from the beginning but chose to stay active in the war. Any of those men could've left but didn't. I think they just loved to fight.
kid was naughty that dude killed kid at only 21years of age
I think it is Billy. I think you've shown some pretty compelling evidence. The facial features line up with reasonable accommodations allowing differences for photographic techniques. The shape of the neck and shoulders are spot on.
My family are McCarty's from County Cork in Ireland. Every St. Patrick's day I think of William McCarty. As time passes I hope to learn as much as possible about William. Not much in my family history about him. RIP Billy.
The tin type nose looks thinner. Nostrils don’t flair as much.
@Sonjingohan 0 I wondered about that too. It might be lighting - one photo was outdoors and the other was probably in a studio. The nose is slightly different.
I look at the ears. The certified tintype Kid has larger ears; like Obama.
movement causing distortions,were not avoidable,in the old tin types,Even if you could stand perfectly still!,you still have to breath! exposure times not like even antique later cameras,and tin type still used up to the turn of the century exposure time was about 3 seconds.
@@christopherhines2718 unless they said, hold your breath. Lol...
I agree the nose is different
Ok. Looking at this video few times. I see the similarities in the body. The face may have some differences cause one picture was taken indoors and the others was taken outdoors with the sun in his face. Therefore.. there may be different on facial figures. Specially on the nose and eyes. But something made me scratch my head while looking at this and is convincing me as well that this could be Billy the Kid.
#1. The Adam’s apple in the throat. They both share the same Adam’s apple and that cannot be hidden by sun light or environment. #2. They both have the same hat. Billy was known to have unique hat at the time. Overall... this could be “Billy the kid” unless there’s another kid with the same body fixtures and Adam’s apple with the same hat. Good video.
To me, that is in my opinion, neither the eye brows nor the nose align with each other. You made some good points, I agree. But I'd like to be able to critique the finer details before making an assessment. But, I thank you So Much for bringing this material up front and presented to us all. What you've done is commendable, for sure. Again, Thank You Sincerely.
Bingo. For me it was his right eye that immediately struck me: He had a characteristic squint and raised eyebrow clearly visible in the scaled photo comparisons, which is especially impressive in consideration of the fact that his eyes would have to be slightly distorted in the tin-type due to the extremely long exposure; it's just damned difficult to impossible to keep your eyes perfectly still and you have no control whatsoever over the dilation of your pupils. Heck, it even looks like he could be wearing the very same hat in both photos. Very cool.
The nose looks different to me .
I also noticed the eye squint the eyebrow but first I noticed the hat it looks like the very same hat aged as much as he did
Yet his eyes, nose and ears are COMPLETELY different. 😂
The resemblance is there. It's very convincing. Old photos are hard to work with. But technology helps. I would say yes. Only question I have is how was he when the photos were taken? People do age and if it is him obviously he was younger when the photo was taken. Truly "The Kid".
I would say yes. Every time I see this stuff I want to say give the man a rest and let him rest in peace but I always enjoy it
I agree with your sentiment. I do believe it the Afterlife and in their ability to see what's going on here. I would like to think he is content with so many people today that are believing him and of his longer life lived. Brushy Bill's face and the tintype was matched as being the same person with today's use of Facial Recognition. That's saying a lot! Of course their's diehard non-believers out there, too.
The photograph is a dead ringer for an old newspaper or wanted poster I remember seeing somewhere of 'William H. Bonney'. Bear in mind, the confirmed photo with the Winchester was of Billy after a few days of rough trail riding-he might have been halfway sloshed and decided a picture would be a grand idea. This was also when he was a wanted man and had 'matured' quite a bit. The one in question seems to show an innocent young man before he went renegade. When I look at both photos I get the sense of a mischievous, fun loving type that matches contemporary accounts of BTK being a jovial, wonderful sense of humor type which he got from his mother.
Your correct on everything, I would like to point out , to my knowledge there was never actually a wanted picture of Billy the kid. Just a small reward for 500.00 from governor Lewis Wallace. Most of the time people didn't know what someone looked like , back then, it took someone that knew yhe person to capture them.
@@jimmyknight1609 I've said the same thing about most people not being able to recognize someone back then. All they had to go by (especially in days earlier than this) was usually a line drawing. Some people arrested as pirates could easily have been the wrong person, as with Edward Teach and Stede Bonnet in 1718. If they even slightly changed their looks (haircut, clothes) they would not be recognized. The same holds true of people in the old west. I also thought about that with John Wilkes Booth. If he had walked by most people back then, they would not have known who he was.
The tintype photo of Billy looks like he might have had a few drinks because he looks more relaxed. Both photos are probably him but who knows. I have 5 photos of my grandfather who was born in the 1800's and he looks different in every one.
Exactly, I replied I have pictures of myself that could pass as someone else to people that doesn't know me that well. In some pictures I was tired from working and shadows, and other things taken into consideration. What I am saying, is, I looked different in pictures taken a week to a month apart, much less a year.
I have many photos of my great grandfather. High school , WW1 thru 1974 before his death all are different as far as appearance , clothing , facial hair etc.
I think it took about 15-20min to take a tintype. People had to use head braces in order to remain still for that length of time, and any movement could case blurriness or distortion. Also, tintypes are reverse image.
The tintype BTK looks like his face has been beaten senseless 100x over and then to make it worse a wagon wheel ran over his head a few times and then was kicked in the face by a horse. The BTK in the tintype clearly has a crooked face (features) and it’s not because his head is tilted because it’s not tilted much, the hat is tilted and is throwing it off.
Is the tintype an older or younger BTK? Imo they are similar, but extremely different.
We don’t even know 100% if the tintype is even BTK.
@@pudgyloafer9793 It took about 10 seconds to take a tintype. Hard, not to move even then, though.
I definitely agree with you. That's Billy The Kid!!! That process you did was freaking amazing!!! There is not a doubt in my mind that this is Billy!! Now you need to compare this one to some pictures that are known to be Brushy Bill Roberts and see if you can find any similarities there!!!
Should have put the face's in full view next to each other. That would have done more then the slow overlay. The slow overlay stops a person from seeing differences. It blurs them into what you want people to see. Looking at the cheekbones and fetchers around the mouth, eyes, chin, forehead. It does look like the same person in the tintype. Also your title should say Billy the Kid picture mystery solved.
This blur is never more present than in Michael Jackson's video Black or White
I watched the right ear not the face, because of the blurred result but that right ear is the same in both frames
I thought this was about the other byk mystery. Did Pat Garett kill him
I agree
They have been playing young guns and young guns 2 over and over on tv . Now we know that Lou Diamond Phillips and Keifer Sutherland's characters did not die in gunfights but they lived long lives . I agree with multiple comments on here about BTK . He like most of the regulators were like modern day ppl who struggle to make ends meet , all they knew was street wisdom and surviving the best they knew how . Life did not give them a choice , and bc they avenged the death of Mr. Tunstall , bc they defended themselves from the hired scum of the crooked ass bully land baron and did not blend in with the rich pigs and real pieces of shit in that society, they automatically were assumed guilty and had death tags on their heads . They were not outlaws, the man made law was not made for them and they stood up to it and refused to back down. They became famous for being killers as news reported back then but to me they became Legends for standing up for their beliefs, forming a family of outcasts that society looked down on . They are trailblazers and like Bon Jovi they went out in " A Blaze of Glory " . Regulators 4 Life. Sometimes you have to invoke your own form of justice to survive .
please don't call him BTK
Sounds real familiar with what is going today
Crazy to see him age almost. Those were hard times and I'm sure even harder being on the run where everywhere you could go someone was waiting to kill you. In between those places were tribes that didn't care who you were. He seems to lose weight and his face looks harder and eyes get more piercing. I like it. It gets my vote as a lifelong fan of his! Who is the other guy supposed to be?
My sister does facial recognition sketches for missing person age progression, wanted suspect etc and she thinks its the same. If you put more center lines on nose mouth eyes the spaces dont change. These features can differ on identical twins but not this photo. Pic with gun is photo lighting so shrinks the edges of nose compared to sunlight contrast. Whether its billy or not its highly likely its the same person body proportion matches too.
The tintype was taken in outside lighting also. Billy was standing outside a saloon.
Wow! I agree, it has to be Billy. Hes even wearing the same hat. Its at a bit of a different angle, but I notice what seems to be a unique hatband and it appears to be the same in both images. Also, the ears seem to be on the same level, albeit, a bit different but the difference in the ears and hat, from pic to pic us the difference in head angle. It amazes me that just when you think youve seen the last evidence, something new crops up. Well done on the verification!
The census data and the picture overlapping are very convincing. I don’t see how it could be anyone else. They are the same person! Thank you!!
Take into account the pictures were most likely taken at two different times, maybe years apart and the fact that the eyes in the photo of Billy with his pistol were slanted just like eyes the authinticated photo of Billy. Also that they were taken at two different distances. This may explain the slight differences in placement of his facial features. Overall who's to say, however in my opinion it is the same person. Billy the Kid
Billy or not..its still a boy that was 16 years old that stood up to what he belived was corruption .and they killed his boss that took him in..rest in peace Billy
Well, He Was 14 Years Old, But Who Am I To Argue. Heh!
I'm convinced. It could even conceivably be argued that he's wearing the same hat, the tintype photo coming later after it had seen more wear and tear. The right ear is the same (once the tintype has been reversed to reflect the proper view). Someone commented on the mouth not being the same, with the original tintype clearly showing his prominent buck teeth, but I disagree; it's been my experience that people with an overbite, when their mouth is closed their lower lip protrudes, and that can be seen by the shadow created by the lower lip in the new photo. It's subtle, but there nonetheless. I believe this one is much easier to see the similarities than the croquet photo..
The nose, ears, eyes and mouth are different in the two pictures.
Squirrel 361 and that big ol’ chin🤷♀️.
I've heard that the authenticated photo wasn't actually him amd that this one might actually be him
That makes it even more amazing to find a photo that shows him as younger and then to do everything over with the print whatever you call it anyways I I believe it is him that's amazing
You make a very compelling argument and I find no room to dispute your claim. Excellent presentation!
I believe it is Billy. The eyes were almost identical, as was the body type. shoulders, etc. A jawline can become rounded as just a few pounds are gained. The 2 photos are too much alike not to be him. One would have to look far and wide for someone who looked so much like Billy. Great job you did. Thanks.
The nose that's not him
agreed.... it is not the kid
absolutly his not the billy the kid
TRICKY NICKY ...Not to mention the ears are different
TRICKY NICKY how about this one! I think this is the real Billy ruclips.net/video/kekoxL_Orko/видео.html
I had the same thought.
Impressive and astounding!
Looks totally different! The person in the tin type photo has a narrower head, cheeks and jaw line. The browridge is not only in a different place, but of a different shape too.
The fact you have put a grid on the other picture only serves to emphasize these points even more!
But I thankyou for your views and opinions and for sharing.
It's also the same hat tilted slightly different from the known photo of Billy. The hats are the same in both pictures. I'm convinced they are the same person.
omg look at the close up of the faces.. open your eyes two different people all together.
Just a thought, Billy the kid may have been a girl. He wasnt a kid, he was fully grown. He was small, light weight, sloping shoulders, small bones, delicate face. His schoolmates said he didnt play rough games with the boys.
When he says the eyes are a bit different because of the tilt of the head, funny how the other eye seems to stay in the exact same place, only one eye really moves. But the tilt of the head, oookk
I agree, tilt the head and the jaw line would move also. The slow blend worked in his favor, a 100% back and forth, over and over would have been better, but that is why I think he used the slow blend
I have met like 15 people or so in my life telling me that they were the direct descendant of Billy The Kid or Jesse James.
Man, I swear, some people got their info wrong or those guys got around quiet a lot back in their day.
15? I have met about 40 even using NY as proof for billy the kid pointing out him and his mom left when he was a kid forget how many I hear are descendants of kings and queens of europe but live in Montana
Interesting.. because i'm also a descendant
Unless Billy had a twin, it's got to be him! I've seen a very similar software, if not the same, used on a forensic show tp ID a skull to a missing person's photograph.
That evidence is not allowed in courts anymore because its not accurate enough. Just because two things may look similar to the human eye does not mean it is scientifically accurate. The human eye likes to make things fit together, especially familiar things like faces.
I always thought Emilio Estevez gave an incredible performance of Billy in Young Guns
You’ll notice he doesn’t mention the nose, that’s because it doesn’t match. One is a lot broader than the other and has a different shape to the end and the nostrils. Definitely not the same person
Definitely
Definitely same guy.
Old peoples noses and ears get bigger. Your nose and ears never stop growing
Two things 1 The ears it is difficult to see in this video but the ears look different could be a trick of the lighting. 2. Who is that beside him? Is it one of the regulators or one of the white citizens from that area and time. 3 Where is it? These are questions the Billy the kid playing croquet photo owners had to answer to authenticate their picture. But it’s a nice mystery that needs to be addressed. Thanks for the video. I will be looking for more on this B.T.K. photo.
I think the guy next to him is his brother Joe. If you look at his known photo as an old man, there is a good resemblance in the face. I think between this photo, the croquet photo, and the tintype, it's all the same person and we now know what Billy looked like.
Very good work. One thing that would of been good to see, and give us a good reference point to start from, is that you should of merged the authenticated Billy the kid picture with the other guy standing next to him first. That way we could of seen the difference in the features of the two people in that photograph, as they merged. And made a good comparison between them. But good job overall. 👍
It looks like him prior to when everything went to shit! Same person. The tin type taken after he was "Rode hard an put away wet!"👍
The similarities of both pictures are amazing how close they are
The other guy looks more like the original Billy picture.
Ollie roberts
I thought the same.
Billy according to reports was better looking than the tin type ..It wasn't his best shot ..it's blurred .which accounts for teeth , nose and eyebrows. .If you see a picture of his Mom then look at this ..It's a possibility .His Hat looks pretty much the same but I'm not an expert.
If he only knew how much he is loved 💙💙RIP WILLIAM FROM YOYR BIGGEST SCOTTISH FAN 🙏🏴
It’s a really interesting piece of work, an I thank you for posting it! It’s incredibly interesting, the work you have done, overlaying the two photos and looking for a link to Lincoln County! My doubt, however, is the provenance of the photograph itself. Where has it come from? Where was the shot taken, et al? But a brilliant effort nevertheless.
This is really stretching to say the photo lineup is a match !! At 70 per cent it really shows they are not the same persons.jawline really changes, eyes and socket completely diff. I wish it was but its just too diff !
I think the guy in your photo has a much bigger nose. Billy seems to have a "charm" in his eyes that your guy lacks. I say its pretty close but no cigar.
To me the definition of size is lost in the tin type photo to darkness as for the look in hIs eyes did you take into account that he's facing the sun causing him to squint some. Also in the tin type he is posing with all his guns and regalia giving him a swagger that he doesn't have when he's just posing un
armed with another person.
The original photo of Billy the Kid has an overbite and a smaller jawline
How come pat Garrett didn't publicize the killing? In the old west they put the bodies for public display,I think Billy. Lived on
Rob Tolley, Pat Garrett who was supposedly a one time friend of Billy who ended up murdering the Kid in an ambush killing. The site where it happened (Pete Maxwell's ranch) was full of Billy the Kid supporters and I'm guessing Pat didn't want to rub salt into the wounds of the already pissed off Billy supporters by propping his dead body up and posing with it. There was a wake that was held by his friends who washed and dressed the Kid's dead body. I imagine Pauletta Maxwell (Billy's girlfriend) came and seen what happened and started going crazy on Pete and his two deputies. Pat was outgunned, and maybe remorseful and wanted it over as much as everybody else and didn't prolong it any further.
@@mikebrooks1620 makes sense,i guess I just want to believe the kid lived a long life,but in reality even in the 1800's your not going to assume a name and not get recognized especially Billy
You did a fantastic job... The two pictures are 100% of each other, that's Billy the Kid... Thank You!!!
Without a doubt that is BILLY...The Facial zoom is extremely convincing.
Is the video msker your brother?
Proves zero. I was born in 1949. My grandfather's cousin died in 1918. When you compare our photos we are identical.
Your argument is more to prove reincarnation than anything else.
To me the nose appears different in size and the orbital balance of the eyes is off as well. Billy’s left eye is noticeably higher in the original photo and his nose is narrower in the original.
If you read Garrett's story of Billy and other contemporaneous writers, they all say Billy had a pronounced overbite. I see a dominant lower lip in the new photo.
I don't think Garrett killed Billy because apparently him and the other 2 sheriffs didn't actually see him shoot Billy, it was dark out and garrett only recognised his voice saying he knew it was Billy one other sheriff never seen Billy before and the other sheriff knew him slightly but apparently none actually confirmed it was Billy beside garret , who probably wanted the reward money.
I don’t think he did either, I can’t believe his body wouldn’t have been photographed.
@@billjohnson9191 yeah exactly it was common practice to photo graph who you killed if you are in law enforcement during that time. Jesse James was photographed as where others. It doesn't make sense he wasn't photographed. Garret and poe where masons so poe would cover and say garrert killed him but eventually everyone present at that time even admitted years later that Garrett had killed the wrong man. Who knows what happened to Billy whether Garrett let him go or never found him, I think he killed the wrong man and got everyone there to cover for him because he was afraid he would get in trouble or killed for killing the wrong man. Doesn't make sense for a sheriff to shoot and kill someone they cant even see because they wouldn't be able to properly identify the target. There are too many fallacies in Garretts accounts. Plus he wrote a book about Billy the kid and also made some money from alleging he killed him. I don't think Garrett killed Billy on that day.
Garett already killed two men he thought were billy, couldn’t risk a third. Plus he had major gambling debts and that $500 reward was needed
The nose of each photo looks completely different to me.
Not even close, the nose, shoulders and mouth don’t match! And the arch of the eye brows are much different.
You're not thinking critically...there could be 5-8 or more years between the pics, weight fluctuations do happen along with one pic being a more mature/filled out face with age. Also slight angle variances or head tilt have to be brought into the thought process. With all the common-sense facts the narrator brought to the table...location, number of white males in Lincoln between 17-29...kinda makes it clear, but perpetual sceptics will doubt no matter what one shows them.
Btw, most humans can move their eyebrows...individually, even!
Outside squinting in the sun would lower eyebrows from the dark inside version.
100@@b80-s9i Sorry but your argument is speculative at best. Anyone who has eyes must 100 per cent agree that this is NOT Billy the Kid! The very demeanour of the person in this picture shows more savvy than the real Billy the Kid. Whoever bought this picture I hope didn't pay very much for it. To try and create bad feelings so that people will not give their opinions by calling them "perpetual sceptics," is cheap and disingenuous! It speaks volumes to your character! The truth is that this is NOT Billy the kid, period! Truth should always prevail!
@@mykkie100 all due respect, Michael. If YOU know for a fact that this is NOT, one, William H. Bonney...Prove it beyond a reasonable doubt! You have criticized another for, somewhat of an arrogant statement. So...are you not the same if YOU can't prove that it is not w/o a shread of scientific proof? Just sayin, Hoss!🤔
Man, what a great way to make the case for the photograph. I have one of Annie Oakley that I should do the same thing with.
I agree, I think its him and if the the dimensions are not enough for most folks, keep in mind he is wearing his classic top hat to boot.
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When he presented the picture of the two men I said to myself no way that looked like Billy the kid but when he zoomed in I started to see it did line up with the real picture of
Billy the kid. I googled Wikipedia and Pat Garrett fired at a person in the dark room and killing him thinking it was Billy and when they turned the body over some say it wasn't Billy. In 1950 a man in his 90's came forward and said he was Billy the kid. To prove it all of his scars lined up where Billy was shot and knifed before. The man that claimed he was Billy died a short time later.
Not nose 👃🏻
Great video, you really have me convinced this really could be Billy. Everything lines up as you say, but you forgot to mention something extremely important. Check out the shape, angle and length of his right hand thumb and trigger finger. They're a virtual perfect match.
Very interesting...I'm as convinced as you are.. Well done for all your hard work !
I've always been fascinated with Billy The Kid for years! I don't believe he was an outlaw, he was cleaning up the old west and taking out the trash.
He *was* the 'trash'!
The one thing I noticed consistently is that his right ear stuck out farther than his left ear in both images. If the tintype is Billy, then the cabinet card is most definitely him as well.
The Adam’s apple lines up perfectly as well Take a close look
I'm not saying the picture ain't from the same historical era at least not from they they were dressed, but the face still looks different from the Winchester picture. The height of Billy the Kid's body would not be that unusual from the 19th Century.
But the fbi did face comparisons and they were 93 percent accurate. And that’s enough to convict someone on murder in these modern times
If it’s not billy then it has to be a twin.
@@getlauriekor That's terrible if people are convicted of a crime on a alleged 93% match facial recognition.
Yea I totally agree. The technology is amazing. Awesome work.
I swear, Billy the Kid must be the most photographed person of the 19th century.
Honestly, the more photos that are found the lower the collector value to all.
So all you care about is the money aspect? Shallow
This is remarkable, and certainly makes a strong case. I’d add a couple more similarities. Forensic investigators use earlobes to ID people, and if you watch the final head-only fade back to the new photo, the lobes look to match to me. Second. The hats appear to be identical.
Sidebar: on the croquet shot, I’ve seen the Nat Geo doc, which makes a convincing case (although the naysayers do as well). However, I never noticed that the authenticated photo has Billy in a sweater with dark, baggy sleeves. Same with the croquet shot. Maybe not the identical sweater, but maybe from the same knitting pattern? Fascinating.
First thing I noticed was they both look to be wearing the same damn hat!
Nope, the Ebay picture looks more like him. You should compare that pic.
My opinion is , Billy the kid was the good guy disregarding legal means to a resolve in fighting corruption. he kinda stumbled into it . brave and intelligent young man. r.i.p. billy.
My aunt did a genealogy research on our family and we are related to Billy the Kid which makes me so proud! He was deceived and bush whacked and absolutely ambushed by his former friend Pat Garrett. Not sadly Pat Garrett was ambushed as well. RIP Billy the Kid. I am proud to be your relative
The noise is wrong.
Awesome production. Also, it seems that his right ear rather sticks out more than the left. It is the same in both photos- the ears are the same.
I'd say it's Billy. The features did match up and like you said there couldn't be a bunch of similar people at that time in that area due to such a small population. Also the authenticated photo is of such poor quality that the nose can't really be distinguished as being different like so many people say it is because of the bad photo. Also even if a few features look different you have to realize that not everybody got 3 meals a day back then. Most were lucky to have one, and weight loss or gain even 20 pounds can really make a person's features appear different. But comparing the photos like you did proves it to me. Too many exact measurements to not be him.
Thank you, I was thinking the exact same thing! So many people here are saying the jawline looks different. The appearance of a person's face can change quite a bit if they have gained or lost weight, particularly in the cheeks and jaw area. A famous 1800's outlaw on the lam isn't likely to get 3 squares at all times. It's funny how many people aren't considering this.
Also how many other men that age would be wearing that silly hat to look taller?
M
In the tin type the head is slightly tilted. That tilt of the head doesn't compensate for the eye and eyebrow on the right side of head in photo is dramatically higher than on the left side. The guy in the tin type has an asymmetrical face. The guy in the photo doesn't have that abnormality. Not the same two people.
ruclips.net/video/kekoxL_Orko/видео.html this one is closer
Hello, thanks for
all the research that you've done on Billy, have you done any on Ringo?
My cousin and I would easily meet every one of these standards.
Nothing much to see here.
I've worked in photoshop since version 2 came out, photo restorations etc. There are some photos out there of the authenticated version that have been cleaned up rather nicely. I would encourage the same comparison with the improved version of the photo. That said, I think the man in the second photo (while agreeing with your observation) appears to have a bigger and broader nose than the authenticated version. This of course could mean little as ears and noses tend to grow throughout our entire lives and weight and age can play a role between the two pictures as well. Im not 100% convinced it is him in both photos, but at the same time, I am not 100% convinced that it is not either. I enjoyed the theory regardless.
It's funny that you mentioned the nose specifically because after viewing the entire layover process multiple times the nose was the one and only feature that my eyes (perspective) and my mind couldn't reconcile as being one in the same. It also seems to me that a pretty significant and key piece of information is missing from the video. The approximate year in which the black and white photo was taken. This bothers me because we know the approximate year the tin type was taken, as well as Billy's age in the photo. So, without the estimated year in which the B&W photo was taken we cannot assign any reasonable assumptions or conclusions as to the whether the slight differences in the two subjects can be explained by the passing of time. Keeping in mind the more obvious differences in the photos such as overall quality, lighting, clothing, weaponry (one present and one presumably holstered), the slight angle of the man standing in the black and white photo and lastly the fact that in the tin type Billy's head is tilted slightly back and to the right, the nose remains the only aspect of either photo that leaves me questioning whether the photo in question is indeed William H. Bonney.
@@southey55gaming71 The photo comparisons seen here: ruclips.net/video/kekoxL_Orko/видео.html with a different photo is more convincing than this one to me.
YOU FORGOT TO CHECK THE EAR SHAPE MATCH IN THE PHOTO.
The photo of Billy in the tin shows him having mouse ears whereas the other photo doesn’t. Not convinced.
That's exactly what I thought
Right, and the eyes and front upper teeth, the twist in the face
Although there is no proof that is Billy the Kid two men looking exactly the same being around the same age is highly improbable not only looking the same but being virtually a double
The minute I looked at it I said what I looks like Billy the Kid I think it is Billy the Kid
I spent 24 years on the PD, over those years, I became quite adept at identifying suspects both from photo's and from sketches. In my opinion, for what it's worth they are different people. Now don't get me wrong, if you want to keep your claim going, more power to you, but to me, not the same dude. I have always had a great interest in Billy the Kid, growing up in the 50's and 60's you had to have hero's and the movies made Billy one of the greats despite the fact he was classed an outlaw by the corrupt lawmen of the time. I do know a bit about corruption as well, having served in a city where corruption, while on a small scale, ran the city, from the Mayor's office down to the guy who ran the street sweeper. I kept my Police Department clean and was removed from my position as Chief when I refused to alter arrests of the corrupt city fathers buddies. It cost the City 3 months severance to see me out the door without making my situation known to the press, which was, in reality just about as corrupt as the Mayor and his lapdogs.
Yup, no question about it. Great video and commentary. Thanks
Unless Billy the Kid had a fraternal twin, I'm convinced that the two photos are of the same person. This is the first time I've seen "The Kid" up close.
Uh, they don't even look alike.
@@bottlerocket3218 The evidence clearly shows that the two photos are of the same person.
The ear to me is the same if you consider the hat pushing it down in the tin type
I am quite sure you are right. As a former seaman I look at the nose as well. Many young guys get a broken nose and in both photographs we see the same crooked nose. Same direction, to the right as so many and very remarkable the same "intensity" (!)
Amazing how you have made a believer out of a sceptic in a few short minutes. Hello Billy!!! Lol.
Gr8 job yall.