Friedman Runt 50 and Customer Service (PS Where's the Scope?)
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- Опубликовано: 21 май 2023
- Stuff happens in production. It's what the company does next that counts.
How did Friedman do?
I'm putting this in Gear Reviews because how a company stands behind a product is just as important as the product itself.
And the lav mic didn't reproduce the sounds accurately. At all. I'll see if I have time to set up a real mic and show what the amp really sounds like. 
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Very good of Dave to fully stand behind his product in this age of throwaway amps
Yeah thats truely impressive
That is so incredible in this day and age that the guy who designs and sells these amps, the actual owner of the company, would care so much about his products and the people who buy his products that he would warranty a 3 year old amp, and btw, replace anything in that amp that might, maybe, could possibly, one day, be a problem! Im blown away by that! At 55 years old, that's how I REMEMBER things being done 30 years ago, not today. Especially NOT today! Dave Friedman is a stand up dude! His legend grows!
I got a Tell ya, my amp repair guy here in Henderson Tennessee is a big fan of your channel and your teaching mojo. I am Electrician, and can follow some of the explanations you go into, but I love amplifiers and so I watch just to try to glean a few tips here and there. The Geek in me Really appreciates your channel, and your knowledge!
And that is why Friedman are world class amps.
One of the best manufacturers in the world.
Dave is the man. I've had conversations with him about Friedman products in the past and after troubleshooting with me personally, he offered to have me send my pedal in for him to take a look at it. Best costumer service out of all the pedal and amp makers I've dealt with.
I can attest to that, I dropped my Runt 50 off at Friedman's shop in LA (I live in LA too) and he fixed the issue and also made a minor custom tweak for me at no charge even though that wasn't covered in the warranty. Also, he hasn't raised the price of this amp in years, even when the competitors like Mesa Boogie ratchet up their prices on the same models every couple years. Seems like a class act. Great amp too!
Damn, you're a class act. RUclips suggested this year old video. It's a gem!
Dave has the best customer service I've ever dealt with by far. I spent a summer mailing a BE-50 back and forth to him before he got everything straightened out, and by "he," I mean literally Dave. It was one of those weird situations where two things broke simultaneously but weren't related. Before sending it back the final time, he spent a whole day burning the amp in and playing it himself.
I can't remember if he paid for the initial shipment, but I know he paid for at least three of the four back and forths (I think probably all of them). He also gave me two pairs of new tubes - the ones in it and a backup.
Oh, and this amp was also out of warranty.
I just bought my third new Friedman a couple of weeks ago, and the first I've had in the house for about of year. My takeaways:
1. Should have never sold my Small Box chasing the next new thing.
2. Friedmans are worth every penny you spend because you aren't just buying an amp. You're buying an amp from an honest guy who genuinely gives a damn and takes pride in his work.
Lovely video quality, Lyle. C'est magnifique. And kudos to Dave for standing by his product and eating the repair charge when he didn't have to.
I for one am happy that you don’t do long vids of O-Scope wave forms.
Good of you to let us know that Dave is a stand up guy!
I bought a Small Box 50 head recently and had some questions. I emailed Dave and he responded the same day. I am a nobody, just a random customer, not a big shot guitar player. But he takes the time to engage his customers. Just tells you everything you need to know about him. That’s why Friedman is a real brand.
Don't own an amp because I don't play the guitar, but I still love watching these videos. Not sure why but keep on making these and I going to keep watching.
Recently sent my Runt 50 to Dave for the same updates/upgrades, Well worth the cost of repair, which was actually cheaper than the shipping from GA to CA and back. Apparently I had the original spec from when this was released. Got it back, and the amp is even better than it was brand new. Friedman customer service is second to NONE! Dave rules, and so does this channel! Cheers!
Man, Dave Friedman is a LEGEND! I've owned three of his amps (still own a SS-100 v2 and it's a keeper) and one of his guitars. Solid products all of them. I had two bad EL-34s that blew on my Friedman and i contacted them via email. Dave replied back and got me a set of 4 EL-34s in the mail immediately.
Folks, this was on an evening on the weekend! How's that for top notch service! 😍😍😍
It was cool seeing the scope! Great videos Lyle.
This was really interesting to watch. I’ve never seen an amp hooked up to a scope and explained so well. Cheer Lyle!
Thank you for the in-depth video and great customer service. Friedman is a first class customer friendly manufacturer.
Scope always reminds of "The Outer Limits" intro😎
Always learn something new with your videos 👍👍
Excellent customer service from Friedman well done
Very interesting info on the presence control. Cool to see the readout on your scope. My dsl40cr presence control never goes over 10 o'clock if even that. My ears don't like those high frequencies much. - Thanks again for this video. I always learn something new when I watch your videos.
Hertz so good.
C'mon baby, Kilo Hertz so good!
Sometimes amps don't sound like they should.
Hertz so good.
o noe u dint
Great points about the scope. There is a time and a place for it, but trying to quantify sound into specs has its limits.
Dave is a good dude, just texted him yesterday about his pickups; fast reply and he does what is needed to deliver a good product. He has great ears for old Marshall tone too….
Another gem of a vid, good one mate! :D
knowing how to properly screw using the correct tool is a very important life lesson.
I love this channel.
Oh nooo! There's never too much talking about amps. Seriously. Haven't missed an installment since I found your channel.
Good stuff. Now the clean has much better headroom. Loved the grindage on the overdrive side of things as well. Even with the lav mic.
I had two runt 50’s of similar vintage, and both of them at one time or another had the aforementioned problems. One of them had the filter caps go bad, causing severe 120hz hum and almost no output. The other had a silver mica cathode cap(?) on V2 go bad causing the lead channel to become very quiet. First amp was under warranty and Dave was awesome about taking care of that. Second one was not, and Dave was also awesome about helping me out with the repair. Bottom line, these are still great amps, and it’s just luck of the draw I guess 🤷♂️. Good video!
Amp sounds really good now that you have the updates to her nice! Good sounding amp.
I like the scope stuff! I know a little something about using them and I dig it.
great vid, dig the scope content.
Hey Lyle! EESH that dirty CLEAN channel!! Watching from the beginning as I type this.. :) I know you will make it better..
Great video! Problem is that some manufacturers have a weird and deviating approach to qc.
The rejects (faulty) components are put back in the line they come from. In a situation where every component is checked (I mean every single one) that is ok and should result in either higher yield or just as many reject (no loss since they were rejects already). When the checks are time based you get a batch considered ok or not (between checks is considered same quality, what that may be...).
This is why customers insist in traceability (location,date,time,machine etc.) of products so they can pinpoint where, when and on what machine it went wrong. In automotive environments the manufacturer even has to be able to emulate the defect in case they claim to have found and solved the issue.
Bravo Dave Friedman!!!!
Excellent 👍🏼
I was worried about you. I was wondering where you were at I hope everything's going well. I love your videos I learn so much. 😊
Well said about Dave, and nicely edited! Yes, us diehards notice your editing.
Good stuff, Maynard.
A very good guitarist I know told me years back now that you want a little dirt even on clean tone. He told me it will give more dynamics to your sound.
Out here in the field, you choose the right? You and Dave got together before you got older. You both chose what’s right. Isn’t it great!
Good for Dave standing by his amps even after warranty. Even though BAD manufactures these, I hear he is way more hands on and they put a lot more focus into Friedman, Wampler and the amps they don’t own the IP for. However, I’m guessing some same PCB and parts here and there. When I look at a Marshall type amps in the future, I’ll def be looking at these.
Hoping also you have a final video on that Sky King. I have the same revision D board, and very interested. Talked to some techs and they are all fine with the components…but the layout is problematic some say in the latest Revision D.
Lucky little Runt!
Oscilloscope is sometimes very useful to show why a circuit sounds very crazy. For example an overdriven active Baxandall tone control circuit can give totally insane waveforms.
Bad quality caps really suck. Some time ago I purchased bad quality fuse holders. I had to change them all after installing them.
The rigol gets some love on video ! Thanks
I have this amp and mine is also much too bright! Thanks for the video! I’ll be sending a link of this video to my amp tech when I bring the amp to him. ❤
It’s funny to me to hear the “too bright” reports. The original circuit is essentially* the classic 2204 without the 1nF bright cap. So much less bright than the iconic original.
* it’s not straight 2204 but it is overall similar.
That’s crazy! Maybe it’s the v30s I’m pairing it with. I can’t turn the treble past 2 without it being piercingly high pitched lol
Damn, that thing sounds good
That's OK teach, I trust you
I dig seeing the scope. I’m always curious why digital amps can’t replicate a tube amp and I’ve always wanted to see a scope of the two and see if there is a visual difference.
Hey, even Ferraris need a tune up now and again!
Cool, got a DS 1054Z myself. Yes, I know how to use it. No, I don’t need it all the time either. Yes, it works well when used. Wish I had the spectrum analyzer option at times, but rarely.
I consider myself as not qualified enough to mess with my amps but I really love your channel for all the knowledge that you convey. I have a question that is not related to the video and that probably you have answered a million times... Do you think the 64 Custom handwired Princeton reissue is worth the price over the 65 version? Or would I be better with a 65 and your recommended upgrades? Thank you. Cheers, all the way from Portugal.
Lyle, I remember you saying something about tubes and how quality can pretty much change from day to day on the same brand. I bet it makes it hard on a Tech. Anyways, I'm about out of school for the summer and will bring up a amp for some mods.
bonus points for using the British slang "anorak" (had to look that up). See, learned something new on your channel 😀
Until recently I was not familiar with the Friedman brand. But after watching a few of your videos on his stuff my next amp purchase is going to be a Friedman. Probably the Small Box 50. Made in the USA, NOT freakin China. Awesome quality and workmanship.
My friend everything you buy is made out of the country unless to want to pay 100$ for yr products get over that
Great info i just bought a brand new Runt 50 head like 3 weeks ago and is having similar problems the Overdrive channel is very trebly and the clean channel is insanely bright and Bass heavy i cant use both over 1 it is not working right
Psionic? D&D in da house...
Nice amp
Liked for Hot Scope Action
Don’t read the comments. Your channel is amazing!
Makes me want to buy a Friedman.
Love the vids. Picked up a 5e3 (Victoria 20112t) after watching one of your live streams. Love the amp which has a Jensen in there now. Thinking it’s time for a speaker change though as the amp is a little dark sounding. Do you have a favorite speaker for 5e3s?
Old Jensen alnicos, Weber 12A125, Celestion Blue.
Fantastic. I think I’ll give that Weber a try.
It’s interesting to me that my Carvin Belair amplifier has the same square wave on my oscilloscope, but it’s caused by the zener diodes and people say it sucks. But the identical waveform purely from tubes and everyone loves it.
There’s a lot more to it just a simple sine vs squared top. I don’t have time to explain - it’s literally long chapter length to do right.
@@PsionicAudio yeah, I know - it’s not that simple. Nothing in life rarely seems to have a simple explanation
The list of amps I’d desire to own has been cut way down since I started following your show. I’m pretty much down to Friedman, Suhr and Soldano…
Yea but he doesn’t seem to go as hard on this amp as say The Sky King. Same manufacturer BAD. But I know BAD owns a few of these companies, and not as fast to rebuild or correct. Where as Friedman, Wampler and ones they don’t own…those clients can just come in and reddesign or fix issues. Same and similar sourced parts, but you have someone correcting issues, making new builds then giving them to BAD to make and they come in to test them. So take that as you may. BAD makes pretty much all the bulk amount of so called Botique amps you see at major vendors. They’ve become pretty big and it seems common that early designs of amps they produce, eventually need changes or upgrades.
On this one you see what had to be changed. And they did that on later models. Same case could happen with other amps as well. Such as the Sky King we saw. I even recall when Mark Bartel owned Tone King still, mistakes were made. But he was at least quick to fix it, e-mail you back and take care of it free of charge.
He had nice things to say about Swart also, but that’s a very different sound than what you seem to be after.
Trust you to always have a video for an amp I'm looking at. I'm trying to decide between a runt 20, runt 50 and a Smallbox. I'm leaning toward the 50 because I like the tone controls for the clean channel. Do you have an opinion on the build quality/features of the Runt 20 vs 50? The Smallbox is nice but it seems a bit expensive.
Hey dude. Which one did you get eventually? I'm in the same boat as you. Cheers!
I just bought the Small Box 50 combo and all I can say is DAMN! Tone tone tone.
Are you able to please share the other small value changes throughout the circuit that have changed over the years with revisions? I need to replace my elco caps in the Runt 50 and want to update values where I can to have a more up to date revision model.
Thanks!
- H
Sorry, I’ve forgotten any specifics. Pretty sure the bulk was just replacing any existing silver micas with the same value of 1KV ceramics and adding a 100pF cap across the negative feedback resistor. But contact Friedman - he knows.
Kudos to Friedman for standing by their products. Also, I'm glad this wasn't a Marshall. If it was, you wouldn't have known what to do. 😆
I see you’re new to the channel.
@@K707OR30 nah I've been here minute. I heard the "dont know marshll" bit was a running joke.
It’s all good, Kellan. That’s a running joke inspired by some particularly stupid trolls we’ve had on here.
Hi Lyle (hope I spelled your name properly). I´m sorry you spent money on a camera that despite recording in 4k and other features isn´t practical as you´re previous one, for example at 10:43 you said , and I could hear that It can´t capture sound off axis as googd as you wish. I feel sorry because you made and investment to give quality material to all of us, but I see you making voice over because the mic hum when charging etc. I hope you can find the fix for those issues or go back to the old camera in the mean time. You´re a great tech and you deserve the best tools for your channel. We are here to support you. BTW you are close to 40k subs! that´s awesome and you deserve that and more. Cheers. (sorry English is not my main language so there may be some mistakes)
Your English was great. The camera is all sorted out and I have a new wireless lav mic that doesn’t hum like the old one (that was the 4 conductor to 3 conductor adapter not having good shielding).
The issue here was just that the new lav mic didn’t like the distant off-axis cab. I can move the cab or set up an SM57 when I’m not in the middle of a repair.
I’m getting there. All you need is cash.
@@PsionicAudio Ha ha true. Glad you sorted out your new grear issues! I can tell the images are far better than the old ones. With great depth. Don´t need more than 1080p , but It´s great to know you can go higher def when nedded. You need to fill those pixels with quality data.Thats all. As far as sound I can hear hum or microphonics, or any other noise when there is a failure better than your old setup. Thats very important, before I couldn´t really hear 120 hz hum from a 68 custom whatever LOL, the only time I could tell hum is when you made that great mic drop into a 68 custom Deluxe Reverb. That was an eye opening 1 mimute video and Fender deserve that for a lot of reasons.
Nice vid, love it! But it's getting a bit more "Commercial" when it comes to certain brands, right?!?! But I have to say that I love Dave Friedmann and his amps and he definitely deserves it!
Not sure what you mean. Do you think I’m doing a commercial for Friedman?
The way I view it, I calls ‘em like I sees ‘em.
If an amp is garbage, I tell you.
If an amp is good, I tell you.
Same goes for the companies.
I’m sending Dave an invoice for the warranty work and parts, but he is not paying me for a “commercial.”
Did you removed the board to install those silver mica or did it from the top?
I like seeing the scope being used, but fully understand why you only infrequently show it.
Delighted I am in this group of owners that have piece of mind, Dave is a top guy in a money rotten industry.
Tony clown McKenzie needs to watch this video.
So this amp is out of warranty but Dave still paid for the repairs even though he wasn't legally obligated? Sounds like money well spent. JMO.
I know, man, that’s just crazy. It’s like he gives a shit about his customers. He’ll never make Fender money this way…
Nice work! Whats the ceramic dielectric on the new caps Lyle? I try to use NP0/C0G if I can find values that match and they arent too expensive.
Vishay 562R series 1KV 470pf. You can look up the datasheet on Mouser.
I don’t remember the other codes right now. I know that in testing they sound like the old Lemcos and I haven’t had any temperature drift issues with them.
About ten years ago I made a huge blind tasting rig with multiple rotary switches and tried just about every 470pf cap on the market. These and the Murata MLCs were consistently blindly preferred. The Muratas have “better” temp specs but cost more. I find the 562R series sounds better in Fender AB763s etc so I usually just get them. Great in Marshalls and Voxes too.
@@PsionicAudio. The code is 562R5GAT47 for the 470 Pf Vishay 1000V
You mentioned in another video that you have a signal generator: if I am right that your scope is from the Rigol 1000Z series, then is your signal generator the waveform generator available in some of those scopes? I am thinking of buying a scope later this year.
I have an ancient signal generator. I need to replace it as it’s finicky. If the Rigol can do this I’ll look into it but I’ve only used it as a scope.
The Rigol interface is very dense and non-intuituve. Took me forever to figure out just how to do basic scope stuff on it (previous scope was an old analog that pretty much only did the things I needed so it was a walk in the park).
And I say this from an IT background.
@@PsionicAudio Heh, I also have an IT background. I asked about the signal generator because I am thinking about the Rigol DS1074Z-S Plus (the cheapest model with the signal generator), though the MSO5072 might be worth the price increase for it's FFT function to serve as a spectrum analyzer (the MSO5000 scopes are all the same hardware with software locks, and firmware hacks exist to unlock everything).
I am well aware that I have a ton to learn, even things as basic as what kind of probes to use in a tube amp. Thanks for your great videos!
the scope stuff is great for us cavemen
are there any simple apps that can do baby version of this
me got no clue
cam on
This is probably a stupid question, but does using pedals change the RMS?
No, at least not in the sense it applies here. This is a measurement of the most wattage the amplifier can produce cleanly.
Pleeze!
Hi Lyle can you tell me the part number of those mica caps that fails a lot.You said It in another video but I can´t find It. I want to change them wherever I find them in my amps. I have a Fender Deluxe Reverb that is full of silver mica caps and whant to change them before they fail. Someone changed the original ceramics with those mica and the tonestack is not working as It shuold. I don´t know why people like to mod amps just for fun with no technical backgound. Thanks in advance
The iffy ones just say SM.
@@PsionicAudio Thak you very much for taking the time to answer my questions, It shows your´re not only a great tech but a great man!. You deserve more subs. Keep uploading great stuff. I keep checking your channel for new videos. Oh your live videos are priceless. A lot of information first hand. You´re so well spoken I even improved my English vocabulary!
My Runt 50 is doing the exact same thing...... 😞 would this repair fall under #6 on your website Modification Services page?
The website is hopelessly out of date. Just no time to redo everything.
@@PsionicAudio That's cool. I'll check back later for your bench rates; I would love to get the Runt back to its true self.. 😎
I watched a video of Dave's smaller amps and saw the ARS brand tubes. No complaints. This was at least one to two years ago. I think C..........ese parts.
Not a damn thing wrong with Chinese tubes. Best current production tubes on the market as of the time of writing.
I despise how their government treats their people but I’m typing this on a Chinese-made iPhone. Those factories build what they’re hired to build, to the quality specified.
@@PsionicAudio I see where Western Electric might be getting into the El tube business in Georgia to help with supply and demand. I hear they won't be 34.00 dollar tubes though. I hear they do good work. Thx.
Mica fail even if you use them only as bright caps ?
Not all silver micas. Just the most readily available ones that are just branded SM.
Cornell Dublier micas are great.
Are these still being built under the same roof as Morgan and Tone King?
Yes they are…the difference is the amps you named are owned by BAD. Wampler and Friedman as well as a few others have them built there. But are very hands on. BAD seems to pay more attention for better or worse, to their clients amps vs their own.
They actually bought a few brands, and then have a few just manufactured in the same house. But a rep and people from the Friedman and other amp companies they don’t own are in the mix. So it’s a bit different in that point and QC I hear. However similar parts are used, and sourced. Design though is not up to BAD though on the Friedman amps. So that’s where it differs as well. BAD may not make revisions as fast or care. But Friedman or Wampler will go right ahead.
Thanks for the info Matt! I didn't want to say anything more without knowing what's going on over there. Doesn't make sense why one amp can be so good, according to Lyle, and one amp so horrible under one roof. You couldn't expect me to believe some of the crappy work wouldn't carry over to the Friedmans in the same environment...idk. I'll stick to building my own amps. Lol
@@seanlavery2236 well I’ve talked to a few people…and one in particular had a Dirty Shirley and a few others that were not good come out of there. So I mean build design is one thing. But all these are using high end components. However, there may be some bias a bit, given he’s taking about he’s friends with Friedman and any fix here does, well he talks to Friedman. Then gets a we updated that or whatever along the lines. He’s getting explanations straight from the horses mouth. And is friends with the guy. But yes, people have returned these amps as well coming from BAD and struck out.
Caps that fail after 3 years should be covered. Especially when it's a known issue by the manufacturer. Good on Dave for doing it. But it would have been a totally scumbag thing to not to do it. And if anyone gets treated like that by a manufacturer don't buy anything from them again.
While I agree that in a perfect world . . . [blah, blah, blah] . . . , most people buy crap and the people who make cheap crap can't afford to have integrity. People buy cheap crap in spite of this, and they do it intentionally. It would be nice if . . . [blah, blah, blah] . . . but they buy crap. Primarily because they feel economically threatened[capitalism is brutal]. I wish things were different . . . [blah, blah, blah] . . . maybe someday.
Cheers,
Someone who doesn't buy cheap crap if he is able to recognize it. I too feel economically threatened, but my problem is perceptual, not financial.
Then never buy a 7ender Amp as the Illinois Caps used in those do usually barely just survive the warranty….and this is a known issue since at least the past +20yrs and since ever ignored by 7ender…
@@Burgschall Those were 105°C caps in that Friedman. Those should last for decades. Either the wrong caps for the purpose or poorly manufactured examples. (The first from what the vid says.) They die after 3 years and they should be warranted.
Built by Todd Rundgren, no doubt...
I hesitate to accept the explanation why the problem occurred. In other industries one would do Q&A and proper testing prior to using parts with different specs or from different suppliers. For critical parts you would have at least two sources of supply. Both qualified and tested for being „fit for purpose“. Hence if one supplier fails you switch tongue other. Anything else transfers problems to customers - this is not fair and unprofessional. With the explanation provided the amp should have never left the factory. These amps are sold with a premium around the world. Not everywhere you will find amp techs knowing all the war stories why something finally goes wrong. So clearly this is for me a 1 out of 10 for Mr Dave Friedman and his amps.
It would be nice to live in a world where parts are either good or bad.
In this world, as applies to these ARS caps, they tend to work fine for years but then have failures long before the 15 year expected lifespan.
You have to stand on your head to see this as a failure on Friedman’s part.
You want to vent your spleen, direct it at Fender who knowingly use cheap short-lived caps in their most popular series knowing that they will fail. About a week past warranty. And then you’re SOL.
@@PsionicAudio Not a convincing reply and so easily said. There is a manufacturers responsibility (especially in the premium segment DFriedman is in) to select low tolerance parts for tone and durability. For me this case is similar to the BAD ToneKing SkyKing you had recently in the bench. Poor quality but asking for premium prices.
One bad batch.
Another friend of mine with a famous last name got a bad batch of Vishay 3/4W metal film resistors. Out of hundreds of thousands of Vishays used, one bad batch of a particular value.
Lacking crystal balls, all any manufacturer can do is the best they can with the info they have. Occasionally shit happens. It’s what they do next that matters.
And no, this is not analogous to the Tone King with serious board design errors baked in.
@@PsionicAudio You clearly showed to us that they used caps with a different (inferior?) design (two venting wholes). So it is not just a poor batch of the same parts. One would only make such changes after proper testing. This is poor manufacturing practice and poor quality assurance.
Ive been watching these vids for a year now...and seeing the scope has ruined all my interests. Show is RUINED. JK
Only "ruined" because it was a digital scope. An analog scope would elevate the same exact content. 😉😁
5 year warranty would be awesome...like mesa...