Wife: Are you ever going to learn a song? Me: I'm listening for ghost notes, swirling, cross-talk, harmonics, clarity, buzz, microphonics, noise, hum, resonance and tone. I don't have time to worry about songs!
Great video - I've been hoping you would do the Hombre. It's great to see inside it. I got one when they 1st came out in 2020. I've got a short story to tell about it if that's ok. I've been playing it pretty hard at home with the reactive load everyday for 18 months. I lost a power tube. It had EHX tubes and I couldn't get straight replacements due to the war. I emailed Suhr for advice about alternatives and if it would need rebias etc. They said that the circuit had a few revisions since mine was built and offered to take it back as a warranty service and do the updates and change out the tubes. I just needed to get it back to the shop I bought it from. Suhr took care of the rest. They covered cost of collection and return. Did I mention I'm in the UK. Total cost to me was £20 to ship it back to Peach Guitars. Which is about 1/3 of the cost of a pair of power tubes here. I had received help from Suhr before with a used guitar I bought getting it back to stock wiring. Their level of customer support is off the scale. If you add that in to the cost/value of product prices they become inexpensive compared to say a Fender.
Yep I've had to deal indirectly with fender over a bass breaker amp that had completely inoperative eq controls. They denied there was a fault! I ended up swapping for an upgraded blond model at extra expense. I don't think I will be buying fender any time soon.
This series of videos is quickly becoming my favorite. It's nice to get an objective view that focuses on value for money and not the typical youtube "flavor of the day" review. As well as providing a great resource for techs and players alike. Keep'em coming!
it is beyond wonder why Fender never went back to the brown panels. Every time I hear them, I’m stunned by how musical their overdrive sounds. They have the Chris Stapleton model now, and it’s amazing from what I’ve seen and heard.
Very timely, watched this whilst changing power tubes and biasing my Hombre. Nice circuit and build evaluation, thanks for doing this. ALSO thanks for the reminder on handle screws. As mentioned, time temp humidity etc can make them loosen and mine which were previously tight all needed attention. I really enjoy this little amp, for anyone interested go play one !!!
Thanks for this review. I bought my Hombre back in 2020 and it's been a great amp. I saw John on Tone Talk speak about what the Hombre was and had to have one. I was thinking about building a 6G3 myself, but also didn't want another project that might not be sellable. I am still amazed that this design left the Fender factory in the early 60s when Leo was in search of a cleaner sound. It breaks up so early, which is of course, why we all want it these days :)
Love these videos on how good amps are put together! It certainly helps a noob like me avoid some costly mistakes due to the marketing b.s. when it comes to amps.
Near perfect job of addressing any potential bias right off the top. That's maybe the best way to account for any possible bias. And of course, it takes nothing away from the actual inspection and analysis.
Though I’m surprised about the pcb(in relation to the Suhr Bella that is through hole with more headroom), the quality is still up to par in design, so that is great to see! Players and techs alike are lucky to have designers, such as John Suhr and yourself Lyle, for tone AND ease of maintenance, thanks for sharing!
Great review. Good to see a PCB design that’s been well thought through. I’ve thought about curved pcb tracks in the past for guitar amps and wondered if anyone was doing it. 90 degree turns with sharp corners on pcb tracks typically act as point emitters for RF signals. Maybe it has minimal impact in guitar amps, but it is an issue in some other applications. It’s great to see a design that removes that issue.
Got one of these some months back. I'm really enjoying it. In fact, I'm pretty much using it on all gigs. With judicious jumping of channels and setup of yer pedalboard, this amp can hang with a full band. Esp. in today's gig world of lower vol's. Nice to hear/see that it's Tech approved ;-) I also wish that all the tubes were mounted to chassis, or at least the pwr ones. But, yeah, for the price point, what do we expect? But, it would have been nice to be able to do the mod where you add silicone rings to the pwr tube mounts for some vibration isolation.
I recognize that single axial electrolytic 🙂 1) My thoughts are that axial electrolytic in the bias supply was selected for its exceptional ratings - it's a 125ºc 8000hr part. Most of the other electrolytic caps are probably 105ºc or 85ºc parts. 2) it would have been much more economical to use a jumper over that high cost axial, if board layout were the issue as you cite. 3) looking at the balance of the caps, they used CDE/mallory 150 series coupling caps. While not the cork-sniffer stuff, think Jupiter/Zozo, etc., IMO they are the best sounding for the $$ other than Panasonic CQ or CDE/Mallory 715 series. Good stuff. Enjoying the content. Thanks for the time and effort to put all these informative vids together.
I had a suhr hombre and then bought a mint 62. Side by side they sounded nearly identical. Even with the 62 having the alnico. Seems like the V was voiced well for that circuit. Sold the hombre when I got the 62 but I liked it a lot. I did have a problem with one of the volume pots right off the bat and they sent one of the little removable pcbs that had the pots on it to the store who popped it in for me and it was an easy fix
Great tour of the Hombre. You are correct in noting the labor costs force the manufactures to use pcb. It was refreshing to see the Matchless Spitfire cling to the old school build. Thanks for sharing.
I live in Memphis and own a suhr bella . I’m glad to here that John makes such good amps . I bought mine based on sound I’m not a tech person . I was aware of John suhr reputation for quality. Thank you for the reassurance of his amp making skills . I am surprised that the bella isn’t a more poplar amp .
As a 6g3 Deluxe clone builder/owner, really enjoyed your review Lyle! Yep, definitely the dirtiest little amp FEIC ever unintentionally put out, LOL! I own a ‘65 Deluxe non reverb as well. These two amps are miles apart in terms of dirty vs clean.
I have the Hombre and a '65 non-reverb Deluxe also. I've had the Deluxe since 1978 and it's been used on most of my gigs since then. I've been gigging with the Hombre but haven't been able to really crank it to compare breakup. The Hombre definitely has more mids. Love both!
Suhr stuff is really good. I consider it "boutique". Years ago, I got to check out some Suhr guitars. They were super nice. Hefty price-tags, too. I guess you get what you pay for. Top quality gear, more for the pros, not the casual bedroom players.
The strat sounds very clear and crisp thru this amp and would be great for blues and jazz. I like the pickups in the strat……they sound pretty good to me. The humbuckers push the amp into breakup of course a bit faster. The 335 was good and the overtones were kind of cool. I really thought the amp sang with the potted humbuckers in the SG. A bit tighter and more focused but rock n’ roll heaven. It’s all subjective but I like this amp. A lot!
You just saved me from taking my Hombre apart to look! I suspected a pcb at the price point, but it sounds so good that I never questioned it further. Seeing the guts, the build quality is excellent. This, and Mesa acoustic guitar amp, are the only amps I have that I didn't build. Very happy to see Suhr uses the same components I do in my builds. At the price point, I chose the Hombre vs. building one. Suhr nailed the sound! Thanks for posting!
I see ur to be on Tone Talk 11/4/22 @ 9:PM . Tht should quite interesting , Marc & Dave are a hoot and a half . I'll be there . Looking forward to it .
As a former PCB designer, 45-degree trace routing is most common. 90-degree routing is generally not done because it can cause acid trapping during PCB manufacturing. For designs with very small feature sizes such as 12um, radiused trace routing and filleting trace pad junctions (tear dropping) are an absolute must or acid trapping becomes a big problem. None of the Engineers I worked with had concerns using 45-degree trace routing on standard .005" feature sizes. The CAD software we used had a feature that would automatically convert 45 or 90-degree routing to radiused routing and add fillets to trace pad junctions.
If for some weird reason I decided to buy a brand new amp rather than building one, the Hombre would be a top candidate for the price. Very cool sounding amp. Pretty ,too!
Nice looking amp. Speaking from an industrial designer's POV, anything that comes in contact with a user or technician's hand is important business. The tube socket issue seems to be a reoccurring affair with PCB amps.
Ah, I’ve known John for a long time. He really helped me out when I was trying to move from apprentice to journeyman. He gave me crucial advice and his time. And he was crazy busy even then. If there’s any debt it’s me still owing him.
@@PsionicAudio With 41k views I'd say reciprocity was had. I might buy one..unless I can find a 5e3 that toggles between fixed/cathode bias,has power scaling a la Trinity amps and "Normal channel" w Marshall value cathode cap to enable a more middly/tighter marshall tone to be mixed in w the "Bright" channel.Thanks for your content,it has been helpful btw...😎
I would think so but I have not been inside one. But it’s a pretty safe bet. John used to do what I do, so he knows all the ways amps like to fail. And will avoid them in his own amps.
Definitely gets my VOTE for visual layout with red board v. Green😎👍 Curved traces v. straight is interesting...? Looks cool 👍 This amp is pleasing to my ear for Suhr...!
You're the reason I have my Magnatone rig. You referred Martin's music on prior videos and that's how I scored a matching Magnatone 1x12. Thanks for your work
I have a V-Type in a Blues Jr with Bill M mods and love it. I tried a C Rex and didn't like the C Rex. The top end was fizzy sounding. Went back to the V-Type. I get a lot of compliments on the amp from musicians as do I with my Allen Accomplice with a Red White and Blues speaker. Love your videos.
I really enjoyed this video. It was great to get a professional’s opinion on the build quality. I know you don’t take requests, but the Marshall SV20 is a popular amp. It’s pretty expensive while being built on a printed circuit board so it would be very interesting to hear your thoughts on it.
Great video, love your channel! May I ask if you ever had the chance to test the Suhr Bella amp. I really would love to know your opinion on the build quality and sound of that amp. Thank you for your work! All the best, Max
Incredible amp… years of search was over after I got the Suhr Hombre and Cornell Romany 12 last year. No more gassing for other amps since… A recommendation for those considering Suhr Hombre, or have one and find it too loud… I ToneKing Ironman Mini II fits like a glove inside the cab. I used Velcro to hold it in place. The Ironman Mini II attenuator actually works really good and you can get it to sound sweet at any volume.
@@rodolphep0nthus555 Not sure what the price is these days since it seem the price has sky rocketed on guitar stuff here in Norway at least… but the Cornell Romany is hand wired in UK, had a few bells and whistles compared to its 57 champ inspiration, but it cost significantly less than other comparable amps. I haven’t had a look at the wiring inside but from the outside it looks like a solid built amp and it sounds amazing.
@@rodolphep0nthus555 True, not a cheap amp in any meaning of the phrase, but if you compare with with others such as Rift Amplification, Milkman, Headstrong other Fenderish hand wired amps or even Fenders own hand wired amps you can easily add a 1000€ or more… and these are the amps to compare it with.
Lovely vid. I know they're not current amps, but would love to see you do one of these on an Andy Marshall amp - perhaps a Bi Valve or similar. Andy is massively pro PCB and it would be interesting to hear what you think of his build/design/quality ethos.
Wow, good on them for adding the extra washer so the top cup doesn't dig into the tolex! I honestly didn't expect that cause this is honestly the first time I've seen it. That should be mandatory with that type of cup washer. Those washers are pennies for a company buying in bulk id assume so it's silly to leave them out. It's always been a pet peeve of mine to remove hardware on tolexed amps and see a big gouge in the material (especially those super cheap handles that are toothed and dig in intentionally). It's also a pain if youve gotta replace the hardware and the new and the old doesn't match up perfectly with the imprint. It really is that kind of attention to detail that makes you feel like the designers cared to create a quality product.
Thank you Lyle once again for top quality content. I have been eyeing this amp for my "dual mono" amp rig to pair with Fender SS22 combo. Definitely looking forward. Thanks!
can't recall well but for the V-tech thing is because Michael Landau liked them a lot and John kind of agreed as he liked them as well when they came out for the kind of use (Landau style or else)
Looks like a very nice amp Lyle! Thanks for a good look under the bonnet (hood). Well built using quality components, pcb & wire dress. Way better than my pos Chinese epi valve standard (copy), that I'm having to modify & virtually rebuild! It seems some companies have a distorted perception of what a quality vs price balance is. But not this one!
Uncle Doug wires his repair amps with the fuse holder after the ON/OFF switch on the HOT side of the AC line. Many amps come with the fuse holder inline prior to the ON/OFF switch on the HOT side of the AC line. Which do you prefer and recommend. I understand the logic of why Uncle Doug does that modification. It keeps the fuse holder from being hot all the time. Thanks for your time and consideration.
Well, code is fuse before switch. High-current devices are supposed to be self fused, so if a switch fails to chassis (it happens) it cannot start an electrical fire if the house circuit is inadequately fused. You also don’t want to have to reset a house circuit breaker if the amp is faulty.
IIRC, John said that speaker wasn't ultimately his favorite, but it worked well and he had to keep the economy of parts in-mind. If I remember correctly... 🤣 Edit: That's why I opted for the head version. Edit edit: after living with the head for a few months... man, this thing hits above its weight class!!!
Excellent review. I'm torn between getting the Hombre or the Runt 20. I do plug in my Guild Acoustic 12-string a-lot (prefer amp sound as opposed to direct PA) and most of the places I play don't want "Distortion" so I'm leaning towards the Hombre. Thank you!
Just got the Hombre, a used 2020. Great amp, works well with Acoustics also! Gigged twice with it and sounded great, full band and solo shows. Suhr Customer Support is excellent, amp was fine but they said send it in for updates. Rcvd it back and it is superb! Very light also. Fender amp guys, check out the Hombre!
As far as the curved PCB traces go, it's worth it to point out that they're also not any more expensive to produce than angled traces, at least past the design phase.
Good sized traces reasonable quality parts . Looks like a good value for the price. Since I do not know both builder and the seller my view should be considered as reasonable unbiased with respect to them . The curved trace camp is at least rather elegant approach. Ground trace reduces cross talk and and does improve signal integrity over a very wide range of signals . Think way in to the upper RF range . John is a fine PCB board designer from what is shown here.
How can I learn and gain the knowledge you have about repairing, restoring and understanding amplification circuits and pedal circuits? Besides shadowing someone who knows this stuff? What are some good resources to study and find on my own?
FWIW, I recently bought an Allen Amplification Hot Fudge with Nuts, David’s take on the Brown Face Deluxe. He built this one in 2010, and it has the Celestion Vintage 30 in it. David Allen was an Eminence authorized dealer, so I doubt he installed it, but that’s what it has, and it sounds rather nice with my Tele loaded with Fender Wildwood 10 Custom Shop pickups.
I'll observe that the tube sockets aren't really board mounted. They're chassis mounted, and then the board is socket-mounted. Note that there are no screws or other mounting hardware on the board itself. Point being, the board isn't being flexed by tubes being inserted. It would probably be better if it was split into one board for each tube, as there is some potential minor flex possible between the two tubes, though, again, that flex is going to be coming from the chassis, which should transfer to the other socket, and move the board as one.
"Thick, double-sided, through-hole plated...". Other than layout, you just described most of the difference between "good" PCB construction and "bad". 👍
Here's a possible reason for the curved traces on the PCB: electricity moves at the speed of light regardless of voltage, and as a rule, doesn't like to take sharp turns at that speed. As a licensed electrician I've done a bunch of 15kv medium voltage work and was always taught to bend gentle weeps in the cable because of this. I hope this helps.
I absolutely hate, in fact I cannot convey how much I despise Phillips screws. Hex screws are a million times better in every way, and its awesome to see Suhr using them. With a Phillips, if you're not dead on with your sizing, you will strip the screw. If its a little too small, it strips. If its a little too big, it strips. Hell, even if its the right size but you aren't properly applying pressure, it will strip. Hex heads and Torx screws are literally dummy-proof. Go too big? Too bad, it wont fit in there. Go too small? Once again, too bad. It will spin freely. If its the right size, good luck trying to strip it, unless you are cranking on it with all your weight. I am starting a movement to abolish the use of Phillips heads. In other news, great video! Nice to see the quality of these Suhr amps, might pick one up here soon!
Torx screws are definitely safer for the fastener challenged among us. The problem with hex-head, AKA Allen head screws is that you have to choose among SAE size and metric size wrenches; and a lot of people don't take the time to really find the one that fits it correctly. Whenever I reach for the hex wrenches I play a guessing game with myself about where the emp was built and/or where the hardware most likely came from. I see many many Hex-head screws that have been rounded out by application of a lot of torque with the wrong size wrench, or one with a worn tip. Philips screws were *specifically designed* to cam out if you apply much torque, and unless the screwdriver-tip-to-screw fit is particularly poor or the screw material itself is extremely soft, it's uncommon to round out the screwhead sufficiently that you can't use a different screwdriver or a little more force and still remove the screw. The most likely way to chew up the screwhead badly is either using a cordless screwdriver to loosen the screw ---- best to break them free by hand before breaking out the cordless driver ---- or using a completely wrong screwdriver size, or using an ordinary Phillips on a Pozidrive screw. All of these potential problems fall under the purview of the technician or equipment owner, and not of the fastener itself.
@@goodun2974 I have actually managed to use torx drivers when I couldn't find the proper allen key drivers in a couple of sizes! I know it sounds like butchery but the torx bit fitted very snugly with no play, & neither bolt or driver were damaged! Just sayin! If that's all you have.
Every Suhr product I have touched was glorious….thats my experience at least. Unfortunately I won’t likely own a Suhr amp and I would love to, but the Bogner Twin Jet I have has ruined me….using the right spectrum of guitars I get what I want. I would LOVE to own a Suhr though.
I'm umming and arring between one of these or the Stapleton fender 62. $3500 AU for the Suhr as opposed to $4000 AU for the Fender. Alternatively around $2300 AU for a reissue 65 or 68. Anyone's thoughts on what is the better choice if your thinking about price or not thinking about price? I only play Nashville Tele's
I have an amp with PCB mounted output tubes on a daughter board, but the tags from the sockets stick way up above the board, with holes in them for soldering. Hmm.
@steveymoon Hi Stevey! Lol I guess you're from UK or Australia (like me) are you? Yeah I find it a little weird & a bit grating the Americans pronounce solder this way too. I guess if you're from the UK it may sound additionally bad cos youse use the word 'sod' for someone who's a bit of an asshole! This makes it funny for me too! But of course for most Americans it's the 100% correct pronunciation, & I think Lyle even posted the american dictionary definition & pronunciation. So who's to say who's right though? I haven't checked a UK or Aussie dictionary but we always pronounce the 'l'. The important thing is that we all know what each other is talking about don't we? It's all good & a bit of a quiet laugh to myself is a bit of fun. Viva la difference I say!
A great and well build amp. But what about replacing power tubes? With (good) amp techs getting more and more sparse I don‘t understand why there are no external biasing points in such a new design allowing for easy and safe self maintenance.
Wife: Are you ever going to learn a song?
Me: I'm listening for ghost notes, swirling, cross-talk, harmonics, clarity, buzz, microphonics, noise, hum, resonance and tone. I don't have time to worry about songs!
Something like that. Also don’t want to play something and get blocked.
@@PsionicAudio I know you can play! That's pretty much how it is at my place. LoL
So I’m no the only one 😂
Brilliant
Love this series! Takes the mystical part out of the brands and really shows how well or badly they put pride into their products.
It's like an X-Ray!
Great video - I've been hoping you would do the Hombre. It's great to see inside it.
I got one when they 1st came out in 2020. I've got a short story to tell about it if that's ok.
I've been playing it pretty hard at home with the reactive load everyday for 18 months. I lost a power tube. It had EHX tubes and I couldn't get straight replacements due to the war. I emailed Suhr for advice about alternatives and if it would need rebias etc. They said that the circuit had a few revisions since mine was built and offered to take it back as a warranty service and do the updates and change out the tubes. I just needed to get it back to the shop I bought it from. Suhr took care of the rest. They covered cost of collection and return. Did I mention I'm in the UK.
Total cost to me was £20 to ship it back to Peach Guitars. Which is about 1/3 of the cost of a pair of power tubes here.
I had received help from Suhr before with a used guitar I bought getting it back to stock wiring. Their level of customer support is off the scale. If you add that in to the cost/value of product prices they become inexpensive compared to say a Fender.
Yep I've had to deal indirectly with fender over a bass breaker amp that had completely inoperative eq controls. They denied there was a fault! I ended up swapping for an upgraded blond model at extra expense. I don't think I will be buying fender any time soon.
Wow. He is so great. I think John suhr sleeps 1 hour a nite. You go on gear page. Ask any question about tubes. Amps he gives detailed answers .
This series of videos is quickly becoming my favorite. It's nice to get an objective view that focuses on value for money and not the typical youtube "flavor of the day" review. As well as providing a great resource for techs and players alike. Keep'em coming!
it is beyond wonder why Fender never went back to the brown panels. Every time I hear them, I’m stunned by how musical their overdrive sounds. They have the Chris Stapleton model now, and it’s amazing from what I’ve seen and heard.
My first impression seeing that PCB was relief that it wasn't loaded with densely packed tiny little surface mount components. It looks very nice!
I buy all my music gear from Martin Music. You've repaired a few things for me over the years, thank you! You did A+ service every time.
Very timely, watched this whilst changing power tubes and biasing my Hombre. Nice circuit and build evaluation, thanks for doing this. ALSO thanks for the reminder on handle screws. As mentioned, time temp humidity etc can make them loosen and mine which were previously tight all needed attention. I really enjoy this little amp, for anyone interested go play one !!!
Thanks for this review. I bought my Hombre back in 2020 and it's been a great amp. I saw John on Tone Talk speak about what the Hombre was and had to have one. I was thinking about building a 6G3 myself, but also didn't want another project that might not be sellable. I am still amazed that this design left the Fender factory in the early 60s when Leo was in search of a cleaner sound. It breaks up so early, which is of course, why we all want it these days :)
I have an Hombre combo as well. I really like this amp!
Love these videos on how good amps are put together! It certainly helps a noob like me avoid some costly mistakes due to the marketing b.s. when it comes to amps.
Thanks for all you do to teach us. Your channel is fantastic!
I'm in no way an amp electrical aficionado, but I thoroughly enjoyed your review and insights! Great stuff.
Near perfect job of addressing any potential bias right off the top. That's maybe the best way to account for any possible bias. And of course, it takes nothing away from the actual inspection and analysis.
Though I’m surprised about the pcb(in relation to the Suhr Bella that is through hole with more headroom), the quality is still up to par in design, so that is great to see! Players and techs alike are lucky to have designers, such as John Suhr and yourself Lyle, for tone AND ease of maintenance, thanks for sharing!
LOVE this idea for a series! Thank you Lyle.
Great review. Good to see a PCB design that’s been well thought through. I’ve thought about curved pcb tracks in the past for guitar amps and wondered if anyone was doing it. 90 degree turns with sharp corners on pcb tracks typically act as point emitters for RF signals. Maybe it has minimal impact in guitar amps, but it is an issue in some other applications. It’s great to see a design that removes that issue.
Got one of these some months back. I'm really enjoying it. In fact, I'm pretty much using it on all gigs. With judicious jumping of channels and setup of yer pedalboard, this amp can hang with a full band. Esp. in today's gig world of lower vol's. Nice to hear/see that it's Tech approved ;-)
I also wish that all the tubes were mounted to chassis, or at least the pwr ones. But, yeah, for the price point, what do we expect?
But, it would have been nice to be able to do the mod where you add silicone rings to the pwr tube mounts for some vibration isolation.
I didn't have much discussion with John but all of them were very informative and changed/improved my conception of gear/amp setting.
I’m considering a badger by Suhr. I love my Suhr guitar. Good to see that the same quality extends to their amps.
The Badger is a great little amp.
I recognize that single axial electrolytic 🙂 1) My thoughts are that axial electrolytic in the bias supply was selected for its exceptional ratings - it's a 125ºc 8000hr part. Most of the other electrolytic caps are probably 105ºc or 85ºc parts. 2) it would have been much more economical to use a jumper over that high cost axial, if board layout were the issue as you cite. 3) looking at the balance of the caps, they used CDE/mallory 150 series coupling caps. While not the cork-sniffer stuff, think Jupiter/Zozo, etc., IMO they are the best sounding for the $$ other than Panasonic CQ or CDE/Mallory 715 series. Good stuff. Enjoying the content. Thanks for the time and effort to put all these informative vids together.
I had a suhr hombre and then bought a mint 62. Side by side they sounded nearly identical. Even with the 62 having the alnico. Seems like the V was voiced well for that circuit. Sold the hombre when I got the 62 but I liked it a lot. I did have a problem with one of the volume pots right off the bat and they sent one of the little removable pcbs that had the pots on it to the store who popped it in for me and it was an easy fix
Brilliant lesson on the traces!!!!
I’ve been thinking about getting this amp for awhile and this video really answered a lot of my questions. Great job and thanks!
and are you still getting it?
Great tour of the Hombre. You are correct in noting the labor costs force the manufactures to use pcb. It was refreshing to see the Matchless Spitfire cling to the old school build. Thanks for sharing.
Wanted one of these for a while. Nicely put together too! The suhr amp line is quite nicely thought out.
These Brown Panel amps are by far my favorite sounding amps.
Damn! Now i have to get an Hombre...i have a very similar 335 and SG...sounds so killer!!
Never change how you make videos sir.
I live in Memphis and own a suhr bella . I’m glad to here that John makes such good amps . I bought mine based on sound I’m not a tech person . I was aware of John suhr reputation for quality. Thank you for the reassurance of his amp making skills . I am surprised that the bella isn’t a more poplar amp .
As a 6g3 Deluxe clone builder/owner, really enjoyed your review Lyle! Yep, definitely the dirtiest little amp FEIC ever unintentionally put out, LOL! I own a ‘65 Deluxe non reverb as well. These two amps are miles apart in terms of dirty vs clean.
I have the Hombre and a '65 non-reverb Deluxe also. I've had the Deluxe since 1978 and it's been used on most of my gigs since then. I've been gigging with the Hombre but haven't been able to really crank it to compare breakup. The Hombre definitely has more mids. Love both!
Suhr stuff is really good. I consider it "boutique". Years ago, I got to check out some Suhr guitars. They were super nice. Hefty price-tags, too. I guess you get what you pay for. Top quality gear, more for the pros, not the casual bedroom players.
The strat sounds very clear and crisp thru this amp and would be great for blues and jazz. I like the pickups in the strat……they sound pretty good to me. The humbuckers push the amp into breakup of course a bit faster. The 335 was good and the overtones were kind of cool. I really thought the amp sang with the potted humbuckers in the SG. A bit tighter and more focused but rock n’ roll heaven. It’s all subjective but I like this amp. A lot!
You just saved me from taking my Hombre apart to look! I suspected a pcb at the price point, but it sounds so good that I never questioned it further. Seeing the guts, the build quality is excellent. This, and Mesa acoustic guitar amp, are the only amps I have that I didn't build. Very happy to see Suhr uses the same components I do in my builds. At the price point, I chose the Hombre vs. building one. Suhr nailed the sound!
Thanks for posting!
The issue of curves in the trace runs is interesting.....Hiwatts used wired 90 degree bends....the board layout does look great here.
The pcb layout is lovely! Interesting that the traces are rounded but the component leads are all bent at a 45.
I see ur to be on Tone Talk 11/4/22 @ 9:PM . Tht should quite interesting , Marc & Dave are a hoot and a half . I'll be there . Looking forward to it .
Nice amp and worth the money over the Fender. I am looking forward to you being on Tone Talk with Dave Friedman! 👍
As a former PCB designer, 45-degree trace routing is most common. 90-degree routing is generally not done because it can cause acid trapping during PCB manufacturing. For designs with very small feature sizes such as 12um, radiused trace routing and filleting trace pad junctions (tear dropping) are an absolute must or acid trapping becomes a big problem. None of the Engineers I worked with had concerns using 45-degree trace routing on standard .005" feature sizes. The CAD software we used had a feature that would automatically convert 45 or 90-degree routing to radiused routing and add fillets to trace pad junctions.
If for some weird reason I decided to buy a brand new amp rather than building one, the Hombre would be a top candidate for the price. Very cool sounding amp. Pretty ,too!
Nice looking amp.
Speaking from an industrial designer's POV, anything that comes in contact with a user or technician's hand is important business. The tube socket issue seems to be a reoccurring affair with PCB amps.
Those red boards are good ! They look like the same PCB board used in the Love pedal Les Luis tweed stomp box that I have.
PCB color doesn't make any difference in quality. Just a choice.
Nice!
Suhr owes you a little something.Your reassurance in this review plus the fact I like the sound/features.A lot.Has me and others seeking it out.
Ah, I’ve known John for a long time. He really helped me out when I was trying to move from apprentice to journeyman. He gave me crucial advice and his time. And he was crazy busy even then.
If there’s any debt it’s me still owing him.
@@PsionicAudio With 41k views I'd say reciprocity was had. I might buy one..unless I can find a 5e3 that toggles between fixed/cathode bias,has power scaling a la Trinity amps and "Normal channel" w Marshall value cathode cap to enable a more middly/tighter marshall tone to be mixed in w the "Bright" channel.Thanks for your content,it has been helpful btw...😎
Your excuse for this amp's short comings makes that bias obovious in comparison to your other videos @@PsionicAudio
Thank you for this! I've been thinking about picking up a Suhr Badger 18 and can assume the quality will be on par with this Hombre
I would think so but I have not been inside one. But it’s a pretty safe bet. John used to do what I do, so he knows all the ways amps like to fail. And will avoid them in his own amps.
Definitely gets my VOTE for visual layout with red board v. Green😎👍
Curved traces v. straight is interesting...? Looks cool 👍
This amp is pleasing to my ear for Suhr...!
You're the reason I have my Magnatone rig. You referred Martin's music on prior videos and that's how I scored a matching Magnatone 1x12. Thanks for your work
I have a V-Type in a Blues Jr with Bill M mods and love it. I tried a C Rex and didn't like the C Rex. The top end was fizzy sounding. Went back to the V-Type. I get a lot of compliments on the amp from musicians as do I with my Allen Accomplice with a Red White and Blues speaker. Love your videos.
I really enjoyed this video. It was great to get a professional’s opinion on the build quality. I know you don’t take requests, but the Marshall SV20 is a popular amp. It’s pretty expensive while being built on a printed circuit board so it would be very interesting to hear your thoughts on it.
That’s one I want to feature.
The tone is excellent.
Sounds great!
Very nice breakdown of the circuit…quality thru and thru..well done..subscribed!
deciding between a tweed deluxe and a brown deluxe. This video was perfectly timed for me,
I’m sure it’s way too late but there’s no comparison to me the 5e3 is head and shoulders above.
I'm glad to see you are finally going to do tone talk ..
Great video, love your channel! May I ask if you ever had the chance to test the Suhr Bella amp. I really would love to know your opinion on the build quality and sound of that amp. Thank you for your work! All the best, Max
Thanks! The Bella is fantastic.
@@PsionicAudio Thank you very much, Sir! Your opinion is important to me. Thank you so much for your reply.
Nice meaty tracks on that board
I know nothing about pcbs but the layout and traces sure look though out compared to a standard mass production design. Very interesting.
I appreciate you going through these amps. Thank you.
Really enjoy these in-depth videos, looking forward to your tone-talk!
Incredible amp… years of search was over after I got the Suhr Hombre and Cornell Romany 12 last year. No more gassing for other amps since…
A recommendation for those considering Suhr Hombre, or have one and find it too loud… I ToneKing Ironman Mini II fits like a glove inside the cab. I used Velcro to hold it in place. The Ironman Mini II attenuator actually works really good and you can get it to sound sweet at any volume.
So the Cornwell is good?
Quite expensive but if well built and sounds good I'm a candidate. So hard to find really good builds these days
@@rodolphep0nthus555 Not sure what the price is these days since it seem the price has sky rocketed on guitar stuff here in Norway at least… but the Cornell Romany is hand wired in UK, had a few bells and whistles compared to its 57 champ inspiration, but it cost significantly less than other comparable amps.
I haven’t had a look at the wiring inside but from the outside it looks like a solid built amp and it sounds amazing.
@@JksGuitarCave ok thanks. I think the Romany 12 is about 1700€ at Thomann.. Quite high price for sure
@@rodolphep0nthus555 True, not a cheap amp in any meaning of the phrase, but if you compare with with others such as Rift Amplification, Milkman, Headstrong other Fenderish hand wired amps or even Fenders own hand wired amps you can easily add a 1000€ or more… and these are the amps to compare it with.
Hey Lyle, great analysis and review! I always learn something from your work.
Lovely vid. I know they're not current amps, but would love to see you do one of these on an Andy Marshall amp - perhaps a Bi Valve or similar. Andy is massively pro PCB and it would be interesting to hear what you think of his build/design/quality ethos.
Great idea Lyle. Really interesting.
Wow, good on them for adding the extra washer so the top cup doesn't dig into the tolex! I honestly didn't expect that cause this is honestly the first time I've seen it. That should be mandatory with that type of cup washer. Those washers are pennies for a company buying in bulk id assume so it's silly to leave them out. It's always been a pet peeve of mine to remove hardware on tolexed amps and see a big gouge in the material (especially those super cheap handles that are toothed and dig in intentionally). It's also a pain if youve gotta replace the hardware and the new and the old doesn't match up perfectly with the imprint. It really is that kind of attention to detail that makes you feel like the designers cared to create a quality product.
Thank you Lyle once again for top quality content. I have been eyeing this amp for my "dual mono" amp rig to pair with Fender SS22 combo. Definitely looking forward. Thanks!
i would love to see what you think of Fuchs amps, they look pretty good.
can't recall well but for the V-tech thing is because Michael Landau liked them a lot and John kind of agreed as he liked them as well when they came out for the kind of use (Landau style or else)
Looks like a very nice amp Lyle! Thanks for a good look under the bonnet (hood). Well built using quality components, pcb & wire dress. Way better than my pos Chinese epi valve standard (copy), that I'm having to modify & virtually rebuild! It seems some companies have a distorted perception of what a quality vs price balance is. But not this one!
I was interested in this amp months ago but no stores have it near me. Thanks for Hombre tour.
I love your honesty!
Uncle Doug wires his repair amps with the fuse holder after the ON/OFF switch on the HOT side of the AC line. Many amps come with the fuse holder inline prior to the ON/OFF switch on the HOT side of the AC line. Which do you prefer and recommend. I understand the logic of why Uncle Doug does that modification. It keeps the fuse holder from being hot all the time. Thanks for your time and consideration.
Well, code is fuse before switch. High-current devices are supposed to be self fused, so if a switch fails to chassis (it happens) it cannot start an electrical fire if the house circuit is inadequately fused.
You also don’t want to have to reset a house circuit breaker if the amp is faulty.
@@PsionicAudio Makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.
IIRC, John said that speaker wasn't ultimately his favorite, but it worked well and he had to keep the economy of parts in-mind.
If I remember correctly... 🤣
Edit: That's why I opted for the head version.
Edit edit: after living with the head for a few months... man, this thing hits above its weight class!!!
Excellent review. I'm torn between getting the Hombre or the Runt 20. I do plug in my Guild Acoustic 12-string a-lot (prefer amp sound as opposed to direct PA) and most of the places I play don't want "Distortion" so I'm leaning towards the Hombre. Thank you!
Just got the Hombre, a used 2020. Great amp, works well with Acoustics also! Gigged twice with it and sounded great, full band and solo shows. Suhr Customer Support is excellent, amp was fine but they said send it in for updates. Rcvd it back and it is superb! Very light also. Fender amp guys, check out the Hombre!
As far as the curved PCB traces go, it's worth it to point out that they're also not any more expensive to produce than angled traces, at least past the design phase.
Nice looking amp!
Good sized traces reasonable quality parts . Looks like a good value for the price. Since I do not know both builder and the seller my view should be considered as reasonable unbiased with respect to them . The curved trace camp is at least rather elegant approach. Ground trace reduces cross talk and and does improve signal integrity over a very wide range of signals . Think way in to the upper RF range . John is a fine PCB board designer from what is shown here.
I personally find it is easier to trace circuit connections by eye if the traces are curved rather than utilizing a lot of sharp right angles.
Would love to see an in dept look at the SUHR BELLA ... have you worked on any ?
How can I learn and gain the knowledge you have about repairing, restoring and understanding amplification circuits and pedal circuits?
Besides shadowing someone who knows this stuff?
What are some good resources to study and find on my own?
FWIW, I recently bought an Allen Amplification Hot Fudge with Nuts, David’s take on the Brown Face Deluxe. He built this one in 2010, and it has the Celestion Vintage 30 in it. David Allen was an Eminence authorized dealer, so I doubt he installed it, but that’s what it has, and it sounds rather nice with my Tele loaded with Fender Wildwood 10 Custom Shop pickups.
I'll observe that the tube sockets aren't really board mounted. They're chassis mounted, and then the board is socket-mounted. Note that there are no screws or other mounting hardware on the board itself.
Point being, the board isn't being flexed by tubes being inserted. It would probably be better if it was split into one board for each tube, as there is some potential minor flex possible between the two tubes, though, again, that flex is going to be coming from the chassis, which should transfer to the other socket, and move the board as one.
Good point and I should have pointed that out. Some stuff is obvious if you know it, and it’s easy to gloss over.
I’m curious what you think of the badger.
That was very informative and helpful!
What speakers would you recommend to tigthen up the lows and get clearer high end?
"Thick, double-sided, through-hole plated...". Other than layout, you just described most of the difference between "good" PCB construction and "bad". 👍
I would say that suhr amp is pretty marvelous.
Here's a possible reason for the curved traces on the PCB: electricity moves at the speed of light regardless of voltage, and as a rule, doesn't like to take sharp turns at that speed. As a licensed electrician I've done a bunch of 15kv medium voltage work and was always taught to bend gentle weeps in the cable because of this. I hope this helps.
I absolutely hate, in fact I cannot convey how much I despise Phillips screws. Hex screws are a million times better in every way, and its awesome to see Suhr using them. With a Phillips, if you're not dead on with your sizing, you will strip the screw. If its a little too small, it strips. If its a little too big, it strips. Hell, even if its the right size but you aren't properly applying pressure, it will strip.
Hex heads and Torx screws are literally dummy-proof. Go too big? Too bad, it wont fit in there. Go too small? Once again, too bad. It will spin freely. If its the right size, good luck trying to strip it, unless you are cranking on it with all your weight.
I am starting a movement to abolish the use of Phillips heads. In other news, great video! Nice to see the quality of these Suhr amps, might pick one up here soon!
Torx screws are definitely safer for the fastener challenged among us. The problem with hex-head, AKA Allen head screws is that you have to choose among SAE size and metric size wrenches; and a lot of people don't take the time to really find the one that fits it correctly. Whenever I reach for the hex wrenches I play a guessing game with myself about where the emp was built and/or where the hardware most likely came from. I see many many Hex-head screws that have been rounded out by application of a lot of torque with the wrong size wrench, or one with a worn tip.
Philips screws were *specifically designed* to cam out if you apply much torque, and unless the screwdriver-tip-to-screw fit is particularly poor or the screw material itself is extremely soft, it's uncommon to round out the screwhead sufficiently that you can't use a different screwdriver or a little more force and still remove the screw. The most likely way to chew up the screwhead badly is either using a cordless screwdriver to loosen the screw ---- best to break them free by hand before breaking out the cordless driver ---- or using a completely wrong screwdriver size, or using an ordinary Phillips on a Pozidrive screw. All of these potential problems fall under the purview of the technician or equipment owner, and not of the fastener itself.
Flat head screws are the devil's handiwork, my dude. One of my old co-workers used to say "friends don't let friends use flat head screws".
@@David.S. , I can't argue with you on that score! Anyway, Robertson square drive screws are very good fasteners as well.
@@goodun2974 us Canadians enjoy Robertson screws 🙂
@@goodun2974 I have actually managed to use torx drivers when I couldn't find the proper allen key drivers in a couple of sizes! I know it sounds like butchery but the torx bit fitted very snugly with no play, & neither bolt or driver were damaged! Just sayin! If that's all you have.
Sounds amazing
Awesome review. I've had my eye on one of their Bella's.
Every Suhr product I have touched was glorious….thats my experience at least. Unfortunately I won’t likely own a Suhr amp and I would love to, but the Bogner Twin Jet I have has ruined me….using the right spectrum of guitars I get what I want. I would LOVE to own a Suhr though.
Hi Psionic,
I love your channel,
Do you have any advice regarding how to get started/qualified as a tech?
Thanks 👍.
Dave.
I'm umming and arring between one of these or the Stapleton fender 62. $3500 AU for the Suhr as opposed to $4000 AU for the Fender. Alternatively around $2300 AU for a reissue 65 or 68. Anyone's thoughts on what is the better choice if your thinking about price or not thinking about price? I only play Nashville Tele's
I have an amp with PCB mounted output tubes on a daughter board, but the tags from the sockets stick way up above the board, with holes in them for soldering. Hmm.
What would be your favorite speaker for this amp?
Would you buy this in a combo or the new suhr hombre head and matching 212cab?
Can you please explain how those tube "dampers" provide any benefit to anyone but the distributors? Thanks.
This is a wonderful video - thank you. I'm curious, however, why you keep saying sodder, rather than solder? Thanks.
dictionary.cambridge.org/us/pronunciation/english/solder
@steveymoon Hi Stevey! Lol I guess you're from UK or Australia (like me) are you? Yeah I find it a little weird & a bit grating the Americans pronounce solder this way too. I guess if you're from the UK it may sound additionally bad cos youse use the word 'sod' for someone who's a bit of an asshole! This makes it funny for me too!
But of course for most Americans it's the 100% correct pronunciation, & I think Lyle even posted the american dictionary definition & pronunciation. So who's to say who's right though? I haven't checked a UK or Aussie dictionary but we always pronounce the 'l'.
The important thing is that we all know what each other is talking about don't we?
It's all good & a bit of a quiet laugh to myself is a bit of fun. Viva la difference I say!
What B+ are you measuring if I may ask, got one over with a 489 Volts B+ and 450 Volts e-caps........
A great and well build amp. But what about replacing power tubes? With (good) amp techs getting more and more sparse I don‘t understand why there are no external biasing points in such a new design allowing for easy and safe self maintenance.
I wish you would a review of a Musicman HD 130 sometime
When one comes in for service. They’re not exactly common these days.
Wouldn't it be nice if all major screws could be removed with the same tool?
Please compare this amp to the Fender Brownface they currently ship.