Wife: Are you ever going to learn a song? Me: I'm listening for ghost notes, swirling, cross-talk, harmonics, clarity, buzz, microphonics, noise, hum, resonance and tone. I don't have time to worry about songs!
it is beyond wonder why Fender never went back to the brown panels. Every time I hear them, I’m stunned by how musical their overdrive sounds. They have the Chris Stapleton model now, and it’s amazing from what I’ve seen and heard.
This series of videos is quickly becoming my favorite. It's nice to get an objective view that focuses on value for money and not the typical youtube "flavor of the day" review. As well as providing a great resource for techs and players alike. Keep'em coming!
As a former PCB designer, 45-degree trace routing is most common. 90-degree routing is generally not done because it can cause acid trapping during PCB manufacturing. For designs with very small feature sizes such as 12um, radiused trace routing and filleting trace pad junctions (tear dropping) are an absolute must or acid trapping becomes a big problem. None of the Engineers I worked with had concerns using 45-degree trace routing on standard .005" feature sizes. The CAD software we used had a feature that would automatically convert 45 or 90-degree routing to radiused routing and add fillets to trace pad junctions.
Great video - I've been hoping you would do the Hombre. It's great to see inside it. I got one when they 1st came out in 2020. I've got a short story to tell about it if that's ok. I've been playing it pretty hard at home with the reactive load everyday for 18 months. I lost a power tube. It had EHX tubes and I couldn't get straight replacements due to the war. I emailed Suhr for advice about alternatives and if it would need rebias etc. They said that the circuit had a few revisions since mine was built and offered to take it back as a warranty service and do the updates and change out the tubes. I just needed to get it back to the shop I bought it from. Suhr took care of the rest. They covered cost of collection and return. Did I mention I'm in the UK. Total cost to me was £20 to ship it back to Peach Guitars. Which is about 1/3 of the cost of a pair of power tubes here. I had received help from Suhr before with a used guitar I bought getting it back to stock wiring. Their level of customer support is off the scale. If you add that in to the cost/value of product prices they become inexpensive compared to say a Fender.
Yep I've had to deal indirectly with fender over a bass breaker amp that had completely inoperative eq controls. They denied there was a fault! I ended up swapping for an upgraded blond model at extra expense. I don't think I will be buying fender any time soon.
Thanks for this review. I bought my Hombre back in 2020 and it's been a great amp. I saw John on Tone Talk speak about what the Hombre was and had to have one. I was thinking about building a 6G3 myself, but also didn't want another project that might not be sellable. I am still amazed that this design left the Fender factory in the early 60s when Leo was in search of a cleaner sound. It breaks up so early, which is of course, why we all want it these days :)
Very timely, watched this whilst changing power tubes and biasing my Hombre. Nice circuit and build evaluation, thanks for doing this. ALSO thanks for the reminder on handle screws. As mentioned, time temp humidity etc can make them loosen and mine which were previously tight all needed attention. I really enjoy this little amp, for anyone interested go play one !!!
Love these videos on how good amps are put together! It certainly helps a noob like me avoid some costly mistakes due to the marketing b.s. when it comes to amps.
Though I’m surprised about the pcb(in relation to the Suhr Bella that is through hole with more headroom), the quality is still up to par in design, so that is great to see! Players and techs alike are lucky to have designers, such as John Suhr and yourself Lyle, for tone AND ease of maintenance, thanks for sharing!
Got one of these some months back. I'm really enjoying it. In fact, I'm pretty much using it on all gigs. With judicious jumping of channels and setup of yer pedalboard, this amp can hang with a full band. Esp. in today's gig world of lower vol's. Nice to hear/see that it's Tech approved ;-) I also wish that all the tubes were mounted to chassis, or at least the pwr ones. But, yeah, for the price point, what do we expect? But, it would have been nice to be able to do the mod where you add silicone rings to the pwr tube mounts for some vibration isolation.
Great tour of the Hombre. You are correct in noting the labor costs force the manufactures to use pcb. It was refreshing to see the Matchless Spitfire cling to the old school build. Thanks for sharing.
Near perfect job of addressing any potential bias right off the top. That's maybe the best way to account for any possible bias. And of course, it takes nothing away from the actual inspection and analysis.
I had a suhr hombre and then bought a mint 62. Side by side they sounded nearly identical. Even with the 62 having the alnico. Seems like the V was voiced well for that circuit. Sold the hombre when I got the 62 but I liked it a lot. I did have a problem with one of the volume pots right off the bat and they sent one of the little removable pcbs that had the pots on it to the store who popped it in for me and it was an easy fix
I recognize that single axial electrolytic 🙂 1) My thoughts are that axial electrolytic in the bias supply was selected for its exceptional ratings - it's a 125ºc 8000hr part. Most of the other electrolytic caps are probably 105ºc or 85ºc parts. 2) it would have been much more economical to use a jumper over that high cost axial, if board layout were the issue as you cite. 3) looking at the balance of the caps, they used CDE/mallory 150 series coupling caps. While not the cork-sniffer stuff, think Jupiter/Zozo, etc., IMO they are the best sounding for the $$ other than Panasonic CQ or CDE/Mallory 715 series. Good stuff. Enjoying the content. Thanks for the time and effort to put all these informative vids together.
The strat sounds very clear and crisp thru this amp and would be great for blues and jazz. I like the pickups in the strat……they sound pretty good to me. The humbuckers push the amp into breakup of course a bit faster. The 335 was good and the overtones were kind of cool. I really thought the amp sang with the potted humbuckers in the SG. A bit tighter and more focused but rock n’ roll heaven. It’s all subjective but I like this amp. A lot!
You're the reason I have my Magnatone rig. You referred Martin's music on prior videos and that's how I scored a matching Magnatone 1x12. Thanks for your work
As a 6g3 Deluxe clone builder/owner, really enjoyed your review Lyle! Yep, definitely the dirtiest little amp FEIC ever unintentionally put out, LOL! I own a ‘65 Deluxe non reverb as well. These two amps are miles apart in terms of dirty vs clean.
I have the Hombre and a '65 non-reverb Deluxe also. I've had the Deluxe since 1978 and it's been used on most of my gigs since then. I've been gigging with the Hombre but haven't been able to really crank it to compare breakup. The Hombre definitely has more mids. Love both!
Suhr stuff is really good. I consider it "boutique". Years ago, I got to check out some Suhr guitars. They were super nice. Hefty price-tags, too. I guess you get what you pay for. Top quality gear, more for the pros, not the casual bedroom players.
Nice looking amp. Speaking from an industrial designer's POV, anything that comes in contact with a user or technician's hand is important business. The tube socket issue seems to be a reoccurring affair with PCB amps.
Great review. Good to see a PCB design that’s been well thought through. I’ve thought about curved pcb tracks in the past for guitar amps and wondered if anyone was doing it. 90 degree turns with sharp corners on pcb tracks typically act as point emitters for RF signals. Maybe it has minimal impact in guitar amps, but it is an issue in some other applications. It’s great to see a design that removes that issue.
I see ur to be on Tone Talk 11/4/22 @ 9:PM . Tht should quite interesting , Marc & Dave are a hoot and a half . I'll be there . Looking forward to it .
can't recall well but for the V-tech thing is because Michael Landau liked them a lot and John kind of agreed as he liked them as well when they came out for the kind of use (Landau style or else)
Thank you Lyle once again for top quality content. I have been eyeing this amp for my "dual mono" amp rig to pair with Fender SS22 combo. Definitely looking forward. Thanks!
Ah, I’ve known John for a long time. He really helped me out when I was trying to move from apprentice to journeyman. He gave me crucial advice and his time. And he was crazy busy even then. If there’s any debt it’s me still owing him.
@@PsionicAudio With 41k views I'd say reciprocity was had. I might buy one..unless I can find a 5e3 that toggles between fixed/cathode bias,has power scaling a la Trinity amps and "Normal channel" w Marshall value cathode cap to enable a more middly/tighter marshall tone to be mixed in w the "Bright" channel.Thanks for your content,it has been helpful btw...😎
I would think so but I have not been inside one. But it’s a pretty safe bet. John used to do what I do, so he knows all the ways amps like to fail. And will avoid them in his own amps.
I really enjoyed this video. It was great to get a professional’s opinion on the build quality. I know you don’t take requests, but the Marshall SV20 is a popular amp. It’s pretty expensive while being built on a printed circuit board so it would be very interesting to hear your thoughts on it.
I have an amp with PCB mounted output tubes on a daughter board, but the tags from the sockets stick way up above the board, with holes in them for soldering. Hmm.
I have a V-Type in a Blues Jr with Bill M mods and love it. I tried a C Rex and didn't like the C Rex. The top end was fizzy sounding. Went back to the V-Type. I get a lot of compliments on the amp from musicians as do I with my Allen Accomplice with a Red White and Blues speaker. Love your videos.
I'm umming and arring between one of these or the Stapleton fender 62. $3500 AU for the Suhr as opposed to $4000 AU for the Fender. Alternatively around $2300 AU for a reissue 65 or 68. Anyone's thoughts on what is the better choice if your thinking about price or not thinking about price? I only play Nashville Tele's
If for some weird reason I decided to buy a brand new amp rather than building one, the Hombre would be a top candidate for the price. Very cool sounding amp. Pretty ,too!
Definitely gets my VOTE for visual layout with red board v. Green😎👍 Curved traces v. straight is interesting...? Looks cool 👍 This amp is pleasing to my ear for Suhr...!
Incredible amp… years of search was over after I got the Suhr Hombre and Cornell Romany 12 last year. No more gassing for other amps since… A recommendation for those considering Suhr Hombre, or have one and find it too loud… I ToneKing Ironman Mini II fits like a glove inside the cab. I used Velcro to hold it in place. The Ironman Mini II attenuator actually works really good and you can get it to sound sweet at any volume.
@@rodolphep0nthus555 Not sure what the price is these days since it seem the price has sky rocketed on guitar stuff here in Norway at least… but the Cornell Romany is hand wired in UK, had a few bells and whistles compared to its 57 champ inspiration, but it cost significantly less than other comparable amps. I haven’t had a look at the wiring inside but from the outside it looks like a solid built amp and it sounds amazing.
@@rodolphep0nthus555 True, not a cheap amp in any meaning of the phrase, but if you compare with with others such as Rift Amplification, Milkman, Headstrong other Fenderish hand wired amps or even Fenders own hand wired amps you can easily add a 1000€ or more… and these are the amps to compare it with.
I live in Memphis and own a suhr bella . I’m glad to here that John makes such good amps . I bought mine based on sound I’m not a tech person . I was aware of John suhr reputation for quality. Thank you for the reassurance of his amp making skills . I am surprised that the bella isn’t a more poplar amp .
Uncle Doug wires his repair amps with the fuse holder after the ON/OFF switch on the HOT side of the AC line. Many amps come with the fuse holder inline prior to the ON/OFF switch on the HOT side of the AC line. Which do you prefer and recommend. I understand the logic of why Uncle Doug does that modification. It keeps the fuse holder from being hot all the time. Thanks for your time and consideration.
Well, code is fuse before switch. High-current devices are supposed to be self fused, so if a switch fails to chassis (it happens) it cannot start an electrical fire if the house circuit is inadequately fused. You also don’t want to have to reset a house circuit breaker if the amp is faulty.
Lovely vid. I know they're not current amps, but would love to see you do one of these on an Andy Marshall amp - perhaps a Bi Valve or similar. Andy is massively pro PCB and it would be interesting to hear what you think of his build/design/quality ethos.
Great video, love your channel! May I ask if you ever had the chance to test the Suhr Bella amp. I really would love to know your opinion on the build quality and sound of that amp. Thank you for your work! All the best, Max
Looks like a very nice amp Lyle! Thanks for a good look under the bonnet (hood). Well built using quality components, pcb & wire dress. Way better than my pos Chinese epi valve standard (copy), that I'm having to modify & virtually rebuild! It seems some companies have a distorted perception of what a quality vs price balance is. But not this one!
I'll observe that the tube sockets aren't really board mounted. They're chassis mounted, and then the board is socket-mounted. Note that there are no screws or other mounting hardware on the board itself. Point being, the board isn't being flexed by tubes being inserted. It would probably be better if it was split into one board for each tube, as there is some potential minor flex possible between the two tubes, though, again, that flex is going to be coming from the chassis, which should transfer to the other socket, and move the board as one.
Here's a possible reason for the curved traces on the PCB: electricity moves at the speed of light regardless of voltage, and as a rule, doesn't like to take sharp turns at that speed. As a licensed electrician I've done a bunch of 15kv medium voltage work and was always taught to bend gentle weeps in the cable because of this. I hope this helps.
How can I learn and gain the knowledge you have about repairing, restoring and understanding amplification circuits and pedal circuits? Besides shadowing someone who knows this stuff? What are some good resources to study and find on my own?
Wow, good on them for adding the extra washer so the top cup doesn't dig into the tolex! I honestly didn't expect that cause this is honestly the first time I've seen it. That should be mandatory with that type of cup washer. Those washers are pennies for a company buying in bulk id assume so it's silly to leave them out. It's always been a pet peeve of mine to remove hardware on tolexed amps and see a big gouge in the material (especially those super cheap handles that are toothed and dig in intentionally). It's also a pain if youve gotta replace the hardware and the new and the old doesn't match up perfectly with the imprint. It really is that kind of attention to detail that makes you feel like the designers cared to create a quality product.
As far as the curved PCB traces go, it's worth it to point out that they're also not any more expensive to produce than angled traces, at least past the design phase.
Excellent review. I'm torn between getting the Hombre or the Runt 20. I do plug in my Guild Acoustic 12-string a-lot (prefer amp sound as opposed to direct PA) and most of the places I play don't want "Distortion" so I'm leaning towards the Hombre. Thank you!
Just got the Hombre, a used 2020. Great amp, works well with Acoustics also! Gigged twice with it and sounded great, full band and solo shows. Suhr Customer Support is excellent, amp was fine but they said send it in for updates. Rcvd it back and it is superb! Very light also. Fender amp guys, check out the Hombre!
FWIW, I recently bought an Allen Amplification Hot Fudge with Nuts, David’s take on the Brown Face Deluxe. He built this one in 2010, and it has the Celestion Vintage 30 in it. David Allen was an Eminence authorized dealer, so I doubt he installed it, but that’s what it has, and it sounds rather nice with my Tele loaded with Fender Wildwood 10 Custom Shop pickups.
You just saved me from taking my Hombre apart to look! I suspected a pcb at the price point, but it sounds so good that I never questioned it further. Seeing the guts, the build quality is excellent. This, and Mesa acoustic guitar amp, are the only amps I have that I didn't build. Very happy to see Suhr uses the same components I do in my builds. At the price point, I chose the Hombre vs. building one. Suhr nailed the sound! Thanks for posting!
Every Suhr product I have touched was glorious….thats my experience at least. Unfortunately I won’t likely own a Suhr amp and I would love to, but the Bogner Twin Jet I have has ruined me….using the right spectrum of guitars I get what I want. I would LOVE to own a Suhr though.
Good sized traces reasonable quality parts . Looks like a good value for the price. Since I do not know both builder and the seller my view should be considered as reasonable unbiased with respect to them . The curved trace camp is at least rather elegant approach. Ground trace reduces cross talk and and does improve signal integrity over a very wide range of signals . Think way in to the upper RF range . John is a fine PCB board designer from what is shown here.
Those mix or grid stopper resistors seem to be very far away from grid. You don't need that GND shield trace in PCB if those resistors are as near grids as possible.
@@PsionicAudio Well, 1 signal trace + 2 GND traces = 3 traces. 🤔 If you have 2 signals you have to have two traces somewhere anyway. I designed industrial electronics and PCBs for 4 years in early 90's, so I know something about PCB designing and usually observe usual questionable design features in seconds. The key to well designed PCB is component layout. If component layout is optimal, lenght of traces usually will be as well, and noise and hum problems etc. will be tackled as a byproduct. BTW I quite agree with that soft curves theory. Same thing with bending wires and component leads, 90 degree bends look neat but are not good at all if you want that thing work correctly.
@@jutukka Hi mate! I would question your claim that 90° bends on component leads would prevent an amp from working properly, unless I've misunderstood what you meant. Could you clarify that for me?
@@nevillegoddard4966 Shortest distance between two points is a straight line. Not a line with a 90 degree angle. The shortest signal path is the least susceptible to unwanted interference like hum. Bending any metal without any good reason exposes it to fracture. Nicely curved line is usually a good compromise if a straight line is not possible when wiring the circuit.
@@jutukkaYes, we all know the straight line between 2 points theory; that's early high school arithmetic. You haven't answered my question about the circuit NOT working correctly with 90° bends in the component leads. If you look at the pcb of the Suhr Hombre, the leads of all the components exit the component axially for an 1/8th of an inch or more, before being bent down 90° before entering the pcb. Even the large axial electrolytics are mounted this way. Are you suggesting that this whole amplifier pcb is badly made then? I don't think Mr. Suhr would agree with that either. I would argue that to bend the leads directly down to the pcb would reduce the possibility of any heat expansion, & in fact reduce the reliability of the circuit. The expansion stresses would be transferred to the solder joints, causing premature solder joint failure. Bending metal does increase the possibility of fracture, obviously, but copper is one of the most malleable (bendable) metals known to man. Copper wired components are meant to have their wires be bent to fit. Their wires are only bent once, so they're never gonna fracture. If anything, circuit reliability & performance could be enhanced by connecting the outer foil end of the yellow non-polarised capacitors to the lowest impedance (or closest to earth) end of the circuit sections they're connected between. Orienting those caps this way is equivalent to an extra inch or so of shielding around the signal being carried by the capacitor.
I absolutely hate, in fact I cannot convey how much I despise Phillips screws. Hex screws are a million times better in every way, and its awesome to see Suhr using them. With a Phillips, if you're not dead on with your sizing, you will strip the screw. If its a little too small, it strips. If its a little too big, it strips. Hell, even if its the right size but you aren't properly applying pressure, it will strip. Hex heads and Torx screws are literally dummy-proof. Go too big? Too bad, it wont fit in there. Go too small? Once again, too bad. It will spin freely. If its the right size, good luck trying to strip it, unless you are cranking on it with all your weight. I am starting a movement to abolish the use of Phillips heads. In other news, great video! Nice to see the quality of these Suhr amps, might pick one up here soon!
Torx screws are definitely safer for the fastener challenged among us. The problem with hex-head, AKA Allen head screws is that you have to choose among SAE size and metric size wrenches; and a lot of people don't take the time to really find the one that fits it correctly. Whenever I reach for the hex wrenches I play a guessing game with myself about where the emp was built and/or where the hardware most likely came from. I see many many Hex-head screws that have been rounded out by application of a lot of torque with the wrong size wrench, or one with a worn tip. Philips screws were *specifically designed* to cam out if you apply much torque, and unless the screwdriver-tip-to-screw fit is particularly poor or the screw material itself is extremely soft, it's uncommon to round out the screwhead sufficiently that you can't use a different screwdriver or a little more force and still remove the screw. The most likely way to chew up the screwhead badly is either using a cordless screwdriver to loosen the screw ---- best to break them free by hand before breaking out the cordless driver ---- or using a completely wrong screwdriver size, or using an ordinary Phillips on a Pozidrive screw. All of these potential problems fall under the purview of the technician or equipment owner, and not of the fastener itself.
@@goodun2974 I have actually managed to use torx drivers when I couldn't find the proper allen key drivers in a couple of sizes! I know it sounds like butchery but the torx bit fitted very snugly with no play, & neither bolt or driver were damaged! Just sayin! If that's all you have.
I actually bought a mint preowned head & cabinet first. as I have a really nice-collection of vintage gear- I owned vintage Guitar store for 15 years and a full line store for 25 years before that.. and last month I bought a preowned combo. ( I have every brown fender amp in my colle.ction actually two of the 62-63 deluxes.) I'd say the 2x12 can i can get Loud📢. The Combo, of course, is a little more controlled. I've A/B'd the vintage to the Hombres. The vintage amps all have vintage tubes and orig speakers. They aren't as tight or bright as the hombres. also, the Oxford speakers and the originals are much softer, broken in.. I have tomorrow I'm going to play the hombre through the Oxford to see how big a difference it is. I'm sure it will be major. Having both my mint vintage deluxes . Retired from leaving the house and gigging. I did play a casual and I use the hombre combo. Honestly, it performed flawlessly. It sounded great.
@steveymoon Hi Stevey! Lol I guess you're from UK or Australia (like me) are you? Yeah I find it a little weird & a bit grating the Americans pronounce solder this way too. I guess if you're from the UK it may sound additionally bad cos youse use the word 'sod' for someone who's a bit of an asshole! This makes it funny for me too! But of course for most Americans it's the 100% correct pronunciation, & I think Lyle even posted the american dictionary definition & pronunciation. So who's to say who's right though? I haven't checked a UK or Aussie dictionary but we always pronounce the 'l'. The important thing is that we all know what each other is talking about don't we? It's all good & a bit of a quiet laugh to myself is a bit of fun. Viva la difference I say!
"Thick, double-sided, through-hole plated...". Other than layout, you just described most of the difference between "good" PCB construction and "bad". 👍
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Wife: Are you ever going to learn a song?
Me: I'm listening for ghost notes, swirling, cross-talk, harmonics, clarity, buzz, microphonics, noise, hum, resonance and tone. I don't have time to worry about songs!
Something like that. Also don’t want to play something and get blocked.
@@PsionicAudio I know you can play! That's pretty much how it is at my place. LoL
So I’m no the only one 😂
Brilliant
So true! LOL
Love this series! Takes the mystical part out of the brands and really shows how well or badly they put pride into their products.
It's like an X-Ray!
it is beyond wonder why Fender never went back to the brown panels. Every time I hear them, I’m stunned by how musical their overdrive sounds. They have the Chris Stapleton model now, and it’s amazing from what I’ve seen and heard.
This series of videos is quickly becoming my favorite. It's nice to get an objective view that focuses on value for money and not the typical youtube "flavor of the day" review. As well as providing a great resource for techs and players alike. Keep'em coming!
I buy all my music gear from Martin Music. You've repaired a few things for me over the years, thank you! You did A+ service every time.
My first impression seeing that PCB was relief that it wasn't loaded with densely packed tiny little surface mount components. It looks very nice!
As a former PCB designer, 45-degree trace routing is most common. 90-degree routing is generally not done because it can cause acid trapping during PCB manufacturing. For designs with very small feature sizes such as 12um, radiused trace routing and filleting trace pad junctions (tear dropping) are an absolute must or acid trapping becomes a big problem. None of the Engineers I worked with had concerns using 45-degree trace routing on standard .005" feature sizes. The CAD software we used had a feature that would automatically convert 45 or 90-degree routing to radiused routing and add fillets to trace pad junctions.
Great video - I've been hoping you would do the Hombre. It's great to see inside it.
I got one when they 1st came out in 2020. I've got a short story to tell about it if that's ok.
I've been playing it pretty hard at home with the reactive load everyday for 18 months. I lost a power tube. It had EHX tubes and I couldn't get straight replacements due to the war. I emailed Suhr for advice about alternatives and if it would need rebias etc. They said that the circuit had a few revisions since mine was built and offered to take it back as a warranty service and do the updates and change out the tubes. I just needed to get it back to the shop I bought it from. Suhr took care of the rest. They covered cost of collection and return. Did I mention I'm in the UK.
Total cost to me was £20 to ship it back to Peach Guitars. Which is about 1/3 of the cost of a pair of power tubes here.
I had received help from Suhr before with a used guitar I bought getting it back to stock wiring. Their level of customer support is off the scale. If you add that in to the cost/value of product prices they become inexpensive compared to say a Fender.
Yep I've had to deal indirectly with fender over a bass breaker amp that had completely inoperative eq controls. They denied there was a fault! I ended up swapping for an upgraded blond model at extra expense. I don't think I will be buying fender any time soon.
Wow. He is so great. I think John suhr sleeps 1 hour a nite. You go on gear page. Ask any question about tubes. Amps he gives detailed answers .
Thanks for this review. I bought my Hombre back in 2020 and it's been a great amp. I saw John on Tone Talk speak about what the Hombre was and had to have one. I was thinking about building a 6G3 myself, but also didn't want another project that might not be sellable. I am still amazed that this design left the Fender factory in the early 60s when Leo was in search of a cleaner sound. It breaks up so early, which is of course, why we all want it these days :)
I have an Hombre combo as well. I really like this amp!
Very timely, watched this whilst changing power tubes and biasing my Hombre. Nice circuit and build evaluation, thanks for doing this. ALSO thanks for the reminder on handle screws. As mentioned, time temp humidity etc can make them loosen and mine which were previously tight all needed attention. I really enjoy this little amp, for anyone interested go play one !!!
Thanks for all you do to teach us. Your channel is fantastic!
I didn't have much discussion with John but all of them were very informative and changed/improved my conception of gear/amp setting.
Love these videos on how good amps are put together! It certainly helps a noob like me avoid some costly mistakes due to the marketing b.s. when it comes to amps.
Wanted one of these for a while. Nicely put together too! The suhr amp line is quite nicely thought out.
I’ve been thinking about getting this amp for awhile and this video really answered a lot of my questions. Great job and thanks!
and are you still getting it?
LOVE this idea for a series! Thank you Lyle.
Though I’m surprised about the pcb(in relation to the Suhr Bella that is through hole with more headroom), the quality is still up to par in design, so that is great to see! Players and techs alike are lucky to have designers, such as John Suhr and yourself Lyle, for tone AND ease of maintenance, thanks for sharing!
Got one of these some months back. I'm really enjoying it. In fact, I'm pretty much using it on all gigs. With judicious jumping of channels and setup of yer pedalboard, this amp can hang with a full band. Esp. in today's gig world of lower vol's. Nice to hear/see that it's Tech approved ;-)
I also wish that all the tubes were mounted to chassis, or at least the pwr ones. But, yeah, for the price point, what do we expect?
But, it would have been nice to be able to do the mod where you add silicone rings to the pwr tube mounts for some vibration isolation.
Great tour of the Hombre. You are correct in noting the labor costs force the manufactures to use pcb. It was refreshing to see the Matchless Spitfire cling to the old school build. Thanks for sharing.
Near perfect job of addressing any potential bias right off the top. That's maybe the best way to account for any possible bias. And of course, it takes nothing away from the actual inspection and analysis.
I'm in no way an amp electrical aficionado, but I thoroughly enjoyed your review and insights! Great stuff.
Nice!
I had a suhr hombre and then bought a mint 62. Side by side they sounded nearly identical. Even with the 62 having the alnico. Seems like the V was voiced well for that circuit. Sold the hombre when I got the 62 but I liked it a lot. I did have a problem with one of the volume pots right off the bat and they sent one of the little removable pcbs that had the pots on it to the store who popped it in for me and it was an easy fix
I’m considering a badger by Suhr. I love my Suhr guitar. Good to see that the same quality extends to their amps.
The Badger is a great little amp.
These Brown Panel amps are by far my favorite sounding amps.
I recognize that single axial electrolytic 🙂 1) My thoughts are that axial electrolytic in the bias supply was selected for its exceptional ratings - it's a 125ºc 8000hr part. Most of the other electrolytic caps are probably 105ºc or 85ºc parts. 2) it would have been much more economical to use a jumper over that high cost axial, if board layout were the issue as you cite. 3) looking at the balance of the caps, they used CDE/mallory 150 series coupling caps. While not the cork-sniffer stuff, think Jupiter/Zozo, etc., IMO they are the best sounding for the $$ other than Panasonic CQ or CDE/Mallory 715 series. Good stuff. Enjoying the content. Thanks for the time and effort to put all these informative vids together.
The issue of curves in the trace runs is interesting.....Hiwatts used wired 90 degree bends....the board layout does look great here.
Brilliant lesson on the traces!!!!
The strat sounds very clear and crisp thru this amp and would be great for blues and jazz. I like the pickups in the strat……they sound pretty good to me. The humbuckers push the amp into breakup of course a bit faster. The 335 was good and the overtones were kind of cool. I really thought the amp sang with the potted humbuckers in the SG. A bit tighter and more focused but rock n’ roll heaven. It’s all subjective but I like this amp. A lot!
The pcb layout is lovely! Interesting that the traces are rounded but the component leads are all bent at a 45.
Damn! Now i have to get an Hombre...i have a very similar 335 and SG...sounds so killer!!
You're the reason I have my Magnatone rig. You referred Martin's music on prior videos and that's how I scored a matching Magnatone 1x12. Thanks for your work
As a 6g3 Deluxe clone builder/owner, really enjoyed your review Lyle! Yep, definitely the dirtiest little amp FEIC ever unintentionally put out, LOL! I own a ‘65 Deluxe non reverb as well. These two amps are miles apart in terms of dirty vs clean.
I have the Hombre and a '65 non-reverb Deluxe also. I've had the Deluxe since 1978 and it's been used on most of my gigs since then. I've been gigging with the Hombre but haven't been able to really crank it to compare breakup. The Hombre definitely has more mids. Love both!
I’m curious what you think of the badger.
Suhr stuff is really good. I consider it "boutique". Years ago, I got to check out some Suhr guitars. They were super nice. Hefty price-tags, too. I guess you get what you pay for. Top quality gear, more for the pros, not the casual bedroom players.
Nice looking amp.
Speaking from an industrial designer's POV, anything that comes in contact with a user or technician's hand is important business. The tube socket issue seems to be a reoccurring affair with PCB amps.
Very nice breakdown of the circuit…quality thru and thru..well done..subscribed!
Those red boards are good ! They look like the same PCB board used in the Love pedal Les Luis tweed stomp box that I have.
PCB color doesn't make any difference in quality. Just a choice.
Great review. Good to see a PCB design that’s been well thought through. I’ve thought about curved pcb tracks in the past for guitar amps and wondered if anyone was doing it. 90 degree turns with sharp corners on pcb tracks typically act as point emitters for RF signals. Maybe it has minimal impact in guitar amps, but it is an issue in some other applications. It’s great to see a design that removes that issue.
Hey Lyle, great analysis and review! I always learn something from your work.
I see ur to be on Tone Talk 11/4/22 @ 9:PM . Tht should quite interesting , Marc & Dave are a hoot and a half . I'll be there . Looking forward to it .
Nice amp and worth the money over the Fender. I am looking forward to you being on Tone Talk with Dave Friedman! 👍
Never change how you make videos sir.
can't recall well but for the V-tech thing is because Michael Landau liked them a lot and John kind of agreed as he liked them as well when they came out for the kind of use (Landau style or else)
Really enjoy these in-depth videos, looking forward to your tone-talk!
Thank you Lyle once again for top quality content. I have been eyeing this amp for my "dual mono" amp rig to pair with Fender SS22 combo. Definitely looking forward. Thanks!
Suhr owes you a little something.Your reassurance in this review plus the fact I like the sound/features.A lot.Has me and others seeking it out.
Ah, I’ve known John for a long time. He really helped me out when I was trying to move from apprentice to journeyman. He gave me crucial advice and his time. And he was crazy busy even then.
If there’s any debt it’s me still owing him.
@@PsionicAudio With 41k views I'd say reciprocity was had. I might buy one..unless I can find a 5e3 that toggles between fixed/cathode bias,has power scaling a la Trinity amps and "Normal channel" w Marshall value cathode cap to enable a more middly/tighter marshall tone to be mixed in w the "Bright" channel.Thanks for your content,it has been helpful btw...😎
Your excuse for this amp's short comings makes that bias obovious in comparison to your other videos @@PsionicAudio
Thank you for this! I've been thinking about picking up a Suhr Badger 18 and can assume the quality will be on par with this Hombre
I would think so but I have not been inside one. But it’s a pretty safe bet. John used to do what I do, so he knows all the ways amps like to fail. And will avoid them in his own amps.
I really enjoyed this video. It was great to get a professional’s opinion on the build quality. I know you don’t take requests, but the Marshall SV20 is a popular amp. It’s pretty expensive while being built on a printed circuit board so it would be very interesting to hear your thoughts on it.
That’s one I want to feature.
I have an amp with PCB mounted output tubes on a daughter board, but the tags from the sockets stick way up above the board, with holes in them for soldering. Hmm.
I have a V-Type in a Blues Jr with Bill M mods and love it. I tried a C Rex and didn't like the C Rex. The top end was fizzy sounding. Went back to the V-Type. I get a lot of compliments on the amp from musicians as do I with my Allen Accomplice with a Red White and Blues speaker. Love your videos.
I'm umming and arring between one of these or the Stapleton fender 62. $3500 AU for the Suhr as opposed to $4000 AU for the Fender. Alternatively around $2300 AU for a reissue 65 or 68. Anyone's thoughts on what is the better choice if your thinking about price or not thinking about price? I only play Nashville Tele's
Suhr. Sold the Stapleton. Just didn’t do what I had hoped with the tremolo…
If for some weird reason I decided to buy a brand new amp rather than building one, the Hombre would be a top candidate for the price. Very cool sounding amp. Pretty ,too!
Definitely gets my VOTE for visual layout with red board v. Green😎👍
Curved traces v. straight is interesting...? Looks cool 👍
This amp is pleasing to my ear for Suhr...!
i would love to see what you think of Fuchs amps, they look pretty good.
Would love to see an in dept look at the SUHR BELLA ... have you worked on any ?
I'm glad to see you are finally going to do tone talk ..
Incredible amp… years of search was over after I got the Suhr Hombre and Cornell Romany 12 last year. No more gassing for other amps since…
A recommendation for those considering Suhr Hombre, or have one and find it too loud… I ToneKing Ironman Mini II fits like a glove inside the cab. I used Velcro to hold it in place. The Ironman Mini II attenuator actually works really good and you can get it to sound sweet at any volume.
So the Cornwell is good?
Quite expensive but if well built and sounds good I'm a candidate. So hard to find really good builds these days
@@rodolphep0nthus555 Not sure what the price is these days since it seem the price has sky rocketed on guitar stuff here in Norway at least… but the Cornell Romany is hand wired in UK, had a few bells and whistles compared to its 57 champ inspiration, but it cost significantly less than other comparable amps.
I haven’t had a look at the wiring inside but from the outside it looks like a solid built amp and it sounds amazing.
@@JksGuitarCave ok thanks. I think the Romany 12 is about 1700€ at Thomann.. Quite high price for sure
@@rodolphep0nthus555 True, not a cheap amp in any meaning of the phrase, but if you compare with with others such as Rift Amplification, Milkman, Headstrong other Fenderish hand wired amps or even Fenders own hand wired amps you can easily add a 1000€ or more… and these are the amps to compare it with.
I know nothing about pcbs but the layout and traces sure look though out compared to a standard mass production design. Very interesting.
The tone is excellent.
I live in Memphis and own a suhr bella . I’m glad to here that John makes such good amps . I bought mine based on sound I’m not a tech person . I was aware of John suhr reputation for quality. Thank you for the reassurance of his amp making skills . I am surprised that the bella isn’t a more poplar amp .
Uncle Doug wires his repair amps with the fuse holder after the ON/OFF switch on the HOT side of the AC line. Many amps come with the fuse holder inline prior to the ON/OFF switch on the HOT side of the AC line. Which do you prefer and recommend. I understand the logic of why Uncle Doug does that modification. It keeps the fuse holder from being hot all the time. Thanks for your time and consideration.
Well, code is fuse before switch. High-current devices are supposed to be self fused, so if a switch fails to chassis (it happens) it cannot start an electrical fire if the house circuit is inadequately fused.
You also don’t want to have to reset a house circuit breaker if the amp is faulty.
@@PsionicAudio Makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.
Lovely vid. I know they're not current amps, but would love to see you do one of these on an Andy Marshall amp - perhaps a Bi Valve or similar. Andy is massively pro PCB and it would be interesting to hear what you think of his build/design/quality ethos.
Great video, love your channel! May I ask if you ever had the chance to test the Suhr Bella amp. I really would love to know your opinion on the build quality and sound of that amp. Thank you for your work! All the best, Max
Thanks! The Bella is fantastic.
@@PsionicAudio Thank you very much, Sir! Your opinion is important to me. Thank you so much for your reply.
I was interested in this amp months ago but no stores have it near me. Thanks for Hombre tour.
Great idea Lyle. Really interesting.
Looks like a very nice amp Lyle! Thanks for a good look under the bonnet (hood). Well built using quality components, pcb & wire dress. Way better than my pos Chinese epi valve standard (copy), that I'm having to modify & virtually rebuild! It seems some companies have a distorted perception of what a quality vs price balance is. But not this one!
I'll observe that the tube sockets aren't really board mounted. They're chassis mounted, and then the board is socket-mounted. Note that there are no screws or other mounting hardware on the board itself.
Point being, the board isn't being flexed by tubes being inserted. It would probably be better if it was split into one board for each tube, as there is some potential minor flex possible between the two tubes, though, again, that flex is going to be coming from the chassis, which should transfer to the other socket, and move the board as one.
Good point and I should have pointed that out. Some stuff is obvious if you know it, and it’s easy to gloss over.
Here's a possible reason for the curved traces on the PCB: electricity moves at the speed of light regardless of voltage, and as a rule, doesn't like to take sharp turns at that speed. As a licensed electrician I've done a bunch of 15kv medium voltage work and was always taught to bend gentle weeps in the cable because of this. I hope this helps.
How can I learn and gain the knowledge you have about repairing, restoring and understanding amplification circuits and pedal circuits?
Besides shadowing someone who knows this stuff?
What are some good resources to study and find on my own?
Wow, good on them for adding the extra washer so the top cup doesn't dig into the tolex! I honestly didn't expect that cause this is honestly the first time I've seen it. That should be mandatory with that type of cup washer. Those washers are pennies for a company buying in bulk id assume so it's silly to leave them out. It's always been a pet peeve of mine to remove hardware on tolexed amps and see a big gouge in the material (especially those super cheap handles that are toothed and dig in intentionally). It's also a pain if youve gotta replace the hardware and the new and the old doesn't match up perfectly with the imprint. It really is that kind of attention to detail that makes you feel like the designers cared to create a quality product.
deciding between a tweed deluxe and a brown deluxe. This video was perfectly timed for me,
I’m sure it’s way too late but there’s no comparison to me the 5e3 is head and shoulders above.
I appreciate you going through these amps. Thank you.
What would be your favorite speaker for this amp?
As far as the curved PCB traces go, it's worth it to point out that they're also not any more expensive to produce than angled traces, at least past the design phase.
I can't find the circuit diagram anywhere, not even on the Suhr website. Anybody? Just a user manual without docs..
I love your honesty!
Excellent review. I'm torn between getting the Hombre or the Runt 20. I do plug in my Guild Acoustic 12-string a-lot (prefer amp sound as opposed to direct PA) and most of the places I play don't want "Distortion" so I'm leaning towards the Hombre. Thank you!
Just got the Hombre, a used 2020. Great amp, works well with Acoustics also! Gigged twice with it and sounded great, full band and solo shows. Suhr Customer Support is excellent, amp was fine but they said send it in for updates. Rcvd it back and it is superb! Very light also. Fender amp guys, check out the Hombre!
FWIW, I recently bought an Allen Amplification Hot Fudge with Nuts, David’s take on the Brown Face Deluxe. He built this one in 2010, and it has the Celestion Vintage 30 in it. David Allen was an Eminence authorized dealer, so I doubt he installed it, but that’s what it has, and it sounds rather nice with my Tele loaded with Fender Wildwood 10 Custom Shop pickups.
You just saved me from taking my Hombre apart to look! I suspected a pcb at the price point, but it sounds so good that I never questioned it further. Seeing the guts, the build quality is excellent. This, and Mesa acoustic guitar amp, are the only amps I have that I didn't build. Very happy to see Suhr uses the same components I do in my builds. At the price point, I chose the Hombre vs. building one. Suhr nailed the sound!
Thanks for posting!
Every Suhr product I have touched was glorious….thats my experience at least. Unfortunately I won’t likely own a Suhr amp and I would love to, but the Bogner Twin Jet I have has ruined me….using the right spectrum of guitars I get what I want. I would LOVE to own a Suhr though.
Sounds great!
That was very informative and helpful!
What speakers would you recommend to tigthen up the lows and get clearer high end?
Sorry I know, older video but have you had any experience with the Suhr Badger amps?
What B+ are you measuring if I may ask, got one over with a 489 Volts B+ and 450 Volts e-caps........
Good sized traces reasonable quality parts . Looks like a good value for the price. Since I do not know both builder and the seller my view should be considered as reasonable unbiased with respect to them . The curved trace camp is at least rather elegant approach. Ground trace reduces cross talk and and does improve signal integrity over a very wide range of signals . Think way in to the upper RF range . John is a fine PCB board designer from what is shown here.
I personally find it is easier to trace circuit connections by eye if the traces are curved rather than utilizing a lot of sharp right angles.
Those mix or grid stopper resistors seem to be very far away from grid. You don't need that GND shield trace in PCB if those resistors are as near grids as possible.
But then you have to bring two traces. It’s all about decisions. This amp is quiet, so…
@@PsionicAudio Well, 1 signal trace + 2 GND traces = 3 traces. 🤔
If you have 2 signals you have to have two traces somewhere anyway. I designed industrial electronics and PCBs for 4 years in early 90's, so I know something about PCB designing and usually observe usual questionable design features in seconds. The key to well designed PCB is component layout. If component layout is optimal, lenght of traces usually will be as well, and noise and hum problems etc. will be tackled as a byproduct.
BTW I quite agree with that soft curves theory. Same thing with bending wires and component leads, 90 degree bends look neat but are not good at all if you want that thing work correctly.
@@jutukka Hi mate! I would question your claim that 90° bends on component leads would prevent an amp from working properly, unless I've misunderstood what you meant. Could you clarify that for me?
@@nevillegoddard4966 Shortest distance between two points is a straight line. Not a line with a 90 degree angle. The shortest signal path is the least susceptible to unwanted interference like hum.
Bending any metal without any good reason exposes it to fracture.
Nicely curved line is usually a good compromise if a straight line is not possible when wiring the circuit.
@@jutukkaYes, we all know the straight line between 2 points theory; that's early high school arithmetic. You haven't answered my question about the circuit NOT working correctly with 90° bends in the component leads.
If you look at the pcb of the Suhr Hombre, the leads of all the components exit the component axially for an 1/8th of an inch or more, before being bent down 90° before entering the pcb. Even the large axial electrolytics are mounted this way. Are you suggesting that this whole amplifier pcb is badly made then? I don't think Mr. Suhr would agree with that either.
I would argue that to bend the leads directly down to the pcb would reduce the possibility of any heat expansion, & in fact reduce the reliability of the circuit. The expansion stresses would be transferred to the solder joints, causing premature solder joint failure.
Bending metal does increase the possibility of fracture, obviously, but copper is one of the most malleable (bendable) metals known to man. Copper wired components are meant to have their wires be bent to fit. Their wires are only bent once, so they're never gonna fracture.
If anything, circuit reliability & performance could be enhanced by connecting the outer foil end of the yellow non-polarised capacitors to the lowest impedance (or closest to earth) end of the circuit sections they're connected between. Orienting those caps this way is equivalent to an extra inch or so of shielding around the signal being carried by the capacitor.
Can you please explain how those tube "dampers" provide any benefit to anyone but the distributors? Thanks.
Hi Psionic,
I love your channel,
Do you have any advice regarding how to get started/qualified as a tech?
Thanks 👍.
Dave.
Nice meaty tracks on that board
I absolutely hate, in fact I cannot convey how much I despise Phillips screws. Hex screws are a million times better in every way, and its awesome to see Suhr using them. With a Phillips, if you're not dead on with your sizing, you will strip the screw. If its a little too small, it strips. If its a little too big, it strips. Hell, even if its the right size but you aren't properly applying pressure, it will strip.
Hex heads and Torx screws are literally dummy-proof. Go too big? Too bad, it wont fit in there. Go too small? Once again, too bad. It will spin freely. If its the right size, good luck trying to strip it, unless you are cranking on it with all your weight.
I am starting a movement to abolish the use of Phillips heads. In other news, great video! Nice to see the quality of these Suhr amps, might pick one up here soon!
Torx screws are definitely safer for the fastener challenged among us. The problem with hex-head, AKA Allen head screws is that you have to choose among SAE size and metric size wrenches; and a lot of people don't take the time to really find the one that fits it correctly. Whenever I reach for the hex wrenches I play a guessing game with myself about where the emp was built and/or where the hardware most likely came from. I see many many Hex-head screws that have been rounded out by application of a lot of torque with the wrong size wrench, or one with a worn tip.
Philips screws were *specifically designed* to cam out if you apply much torque, and unless the screwdriver-tip-to-screw fit is particularly poor or the screw material itself is extremely soft, it's uncommon to round out the screwhead sufficiently that you can't use a different screwdriver or a little more force and still remove the screw. The most likely way to chew up the screwhead badly is either using a cordless screwdriver to loosen the screw ---- best to break them free by hand before breaking out the cordless driver ---- or using a completely wrong screwdriver size, or using an ordinary Phillips on a Pozidrive screw. All of these potential problems fall under the purview of the technician or equipment owner, and not of the fastener itself.
Flat head screws are the devil's handiwork, my dude. One of my old co-workers used to say "friends don't let friends use flat head screws".
@@David.S. , I can't argue with you on that score! Anyway, Robertson square drive screws are very good fasteners as well.
@@goodun2974 us Canadians enjoy Robertson screws 🙂
@@goodun2974 I have actually managed to use torx drivers when I couldn't find the proper allen key drivers in a couple of sizes! I know it sounds like butchery but the torx bit fitted very snugly with no play, & neither bolt or driver were damaged! Just sayin! If that's all you have.
Nice looking amp!
Would you buy this in a combo or the new suhr hombre head and matching 212cab?
I actually bought a mint preowned head & cabinet first. as I have a really nice-collection of vintage gear- I owned vintage Guitar store for 15 years and a full line store for 25 years before that..
and last month I bought a preowned combo. ( I have every brown fender amp in my colle.ction actually two of the 62-63 deluxes.) I'd say the 2x12 can i can get Loud📢. The Combo, of course, is a little more controlled. I've A/B'd the vintage to the Hombres. The vintage amps all have vintage tubes and orig speakers. They aren't as tight or bright as the hombres. also, the Oxford speakers and the originals are much softer, broken in.. I have tomorrow I'm going to play the hombre through the Oxford to see how big a difference it is. I'm sure it will be major.
Having both my mint vintage deluxes . Retired from leaving the house and gigging. I did play a casual and I use the hombre combo. Honestly, it performed flawlessly. It sounded great.
This is a wonderful video - thank you. I'm curious, however, why you keep saying sodder, rather than solder? Thanks.
dictionary.cambridge.org/us/pronunciation/english/solder
@steveymoon Hi Stevey! Lol I guess you're from UK or Australia (like me) are you? Yeah I find it a little weird & a bit grating the Americans pronounce solder this way too. I guess if you're from the UK it may sound additionally bad cos youse use the word 'sod' for someone who's a bit of an asshole! This makes it funny for me too!
But of course for most Americans it's the 100% correct pronunciation, & I think Lyle even posted the american dictionary definition & pronunciation. So who's to say who's right though? I haven't checked a UK or Aussie dictionary but we always pronounce the 'l'.
The important thing is that we all know what each other is talking about don't we?
It's all good & a bit of a quiet laugh to myself is a bit of fun. Viva la difference I say!
Wouldn't it be nice if all major screws could be removed with the same tool?
Please compare this amp to the Fender Brownface they currently ship.
I wish you would a review of a Musicman HD 130 sometime
When one comes in for service. They’re not exactly common these days.
Interesting that he used Nichicon caps. Hifi caps in a guitar amp? Do they make a difference ? I’m assuming just for reliability
Suhr is a classic 'guru'; beautifully made, but all based on style rather than real electronics understanding.
"Thick, double-sided, through-hole plated...". Other than layout, you just described most of the difference between "good" PCB construction and "bad". 👍
Awesome review. I've had my eye on one of their Bella's.