Thank you Thisisnew. Really appreciate your comments and you taking the time to take a look at my channel. Been on holiday but new content will be added soon. Planning to finish the series and then review some of my gear. Including my vintage Technics SE M100. It is a dual mono design, operating in class AA, housing two separate transformers, four large filter caps and a four channel 20 bit dac. So how far have things really moved on since 1989?
Sarah Brightman and Andrea Bocelli beautiful. This is a wonderful series on audio and putting together a quality system regardless of price. Great job Tarun. Love your videos
I enjoyed your above video, there other pros and cons with ported and sealed box speakers, such as placement in rooms, sealed boxes tend to be less fussy and may be the answer to difficult rooms . Also the bass on sealed box speakers may often not go so down as on ported speakers, but the timing of it and its texture may often be an advantage on sealed box speakers, so beautifully expressed in ATC passive speakers. For those people who have 'difficult rooms' the sealed box speaker may be a solution, the compromise being having a more powerful amp to drive the speakers.
One important difference you did not mention involves the required size of the box for the two types, much smaller for a sealed design and much larger for a vented design. I mention this because very little market exists for large bass boxes, hence most speaker manufacturers are unwilling build large ported bass speakers. That results in vented systems being designed with very small boxes, which then introduces many of the problems associated with ported speakers, those being improper sonic characteristics coming from the vent that listeners call farting. But most importantly, the major sonic advantages possible with a vented design in addition to a very low f3 are never realized with such a small box. Sadly, the only way anyone can experience the awesome performance of a large ported bass speaker system is to build it yourself. Of course, the other aspects of good bass performance must also be adhered to, including proper placement of the speaker and listener in a room for flat response in the bass region, proper amp size to drive the bass speakers, adequate speaker cabling, and finally a good recording with nice sounding bass, which is actually not very common.
Love the sound of a sealed sub I have peerless XLS 10” stereo subs they are awesome But now I am enjoying OB bass different ball game altogether no 3 way tower can give the image of a dual 15” per side OB
Great discussion of the two types of enclosure and the diffraction due to wavelength. The pinhole camera analogy isn’t the same though until the aperture is extremely close, think about diffraction gratings. Pinhole cameras depend on the fact that light travels in straight lines to a surface and gets reflected and absorbed by the surfaces of objects it hits. It then gets scattered. The pinhole selects the rays that are travelling in directions that pass through the pinhole. These project overlapping patches of light onto the surface of the screen that together form the pinhole image. Pinhole cameras are only subject to diffraction when the pinhole is too small, less than the wavelengths of visible light. This makes the image blur a little and resolution decreases.
Hi Christopher, thank you for watching. The pinhole camera analogy was only used to illustrate a very basic point that high frequency audio signals beam a bit like a light passing through a much larger aperture than its wavelength to create an image. This video was aimed at people with a non technical background wanting to know a little more about the behaviour of speakers in a room. I didn’t want to get into too much depth about diffraction.
While I agree that ideal placement is not against the wall , I don't fully agree with the imaging argument on this. It may have gone over my head ! Please consider that most high frequencies are performed by a mid and tweeter or a tweeter on its own. Usually these drivers are in a sealed enclosure or sealed drivers within the cabinet. Whether the cabinet is ported or not these are enclosed. It is also through these driver that most of the imaging cues occur. I have great imaging in my too small room with front ported lows with compression driver highs. Speakers are almost against the rear wall but away from the side walls, possibly just as important for imaging. I like your explanations and videos.
Hi Kira, this video was aimed at primarily people who are new to this hobby. It was just general guidelines without getting into too many specifics. As I am sure you are aware, low frequencies at the tuning frequency of the port are omnidirectional and as a result the position of the port doesn’t make a huge amount of difference. The width of the front baffle, the depths of the speaker and the tuning of the design at low frequencies is likely to have much more bearing on how a speaker will perform close to a wall. Most ported speakers have been designed with the anticipation that they will be placed further away from the wall than a front ported or sealed box design. Andrew Jones designed Elac Debut B6 V1 vs V2 is a classic example. Thank you for watching and commenting 😊
A British Audiophile Thanks for the reply. My comments were mostly regarding imaging rather than speaker performance ( not quite the same). As a DIY speaker builder I always get a chuckle when speaker companies and designers get rave reviews for recycling old designs with off the shelf products. Look, we have added bracing to our speakers, or look a new waveguide.... A few years ago I was in the local Elac dealers showroom and listening to a beautiful set of speakers. When told the price was $3000 , I was shocked because they were definitely as involving as my custom system. I then stated these are the best $3k speakers I have heard to date. The salesperson looked at me with a smile and corrected me, they were actually $30,000. I left with a smile on my face.
Good video ! I would perhaps add that ported or bass relex speakers are much more power effecient, give a better sound with extended frequency response for the lows- tymphanny drum etc . Additionally would elaborate on front ported speakers wherein the sound energy from the rear of the speaker drive units cone is pushed out in phase with that of the front of the cone. I prefer front ported units to back ported ones.
Would having an SVS 1000 SB pro in a small room help out the speakers. Like the mid range. Room size 13 by 13 by 9ft ceilings. Have an AVR not properly calibrated yet because have not got the new CD DVD player.
I really like your videos and the content. If one is willing to get something out of the content it will work. Thx for using your obvious longterm expertise to create these videos in a way that beginners (me) can understand. Understand in a way meant of gettting knowledge. Munter bleiben ! Greetings for germany.
Given that loudspeakers are placed 5ms/2 or greater from any boundary (wall), and that there would still be a first reflection that is out of phase regardless, is there then an ideal distance beyond the minimum that would be dependent on the resonant frequency of a particular loudspeaker? In other words, can sound reproduction be improved even further by tuning the speaker-wall distance to be optimized to some particular characteristic of the loudspeaker so that the out of phase reflections have a minimal impact on sound reproduction, or does the falloff in intensity of reflected acoustic energy at such distances make any effort not worthwhile?
Have I understood this correctly, in my proposed listening room or ‘man cave’ as my wife calls it, I would be better with a sealed box speaker set up as the speakers will have to be placed reasonably close to the wall as the room is only going to be approximately 9ft x 9ft. A rear ported design would have to sit too far into the room and compromise usable space?
Very useful video...thanks. I'm a new subscriber and fan of your channel, and find your videos really helpful! Could you possibly comment on front ported speakers. I have a small, almost square listening room and was thinking that front ported standmounted bookshelf speakers might be the way to go to avoid boomy base issues and also as I can't place the speakers 85 cm from side/back wall...I was looking at the Sonus Faber Sonetto 1s or the PMC Twenty5.21 as possible contenders? Would welcome any advice. Thanks again.
Hi Marc, thank you for watching and your support of my channel. It is very much appreciated. Bass is omni directional and the location of the port is not as critical as it may first appear. Don’t get me wrong, a rear ported speaker will throw out more energy backwards. It is more about the fact that a rear ported speaker is likely to be designed to work further from walls than an a sealed box or front ported speaker. Clues are the frequency response, sensitivity, width of front baffle, etc.. Speakers designed to work closer to walls are likely to be shallower in depth and have a wider front baffle, not so much bass extension as the wall boundaries will boost bass and as a result will probably have a gain in sensitivity via virtue of not going for so much bass extension. This is a generalisation and oversimplification of course. The only thing to consider with a front ported design is that if you play loud and listen close, port chuffing can become audible with some designs. It is like a “bottom burp” sound that is farther unpleasant. Good designers will consider this and reduce this form of distortion by carefully engineered the size and shape of the port. Hope this helps.
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Thank you! And for the amazingly quick reply, much appreciated. Great channel - I am in the process of binge-watching all of your videos and learning a lot - am sure will have more questions. You have great presentation skills too. Keep up the good work!
Hi Tarun, I see you have ProAc bookshelve speakers with Hegel. Have you ever tried Response D18s? Or do you think it might be a good combo? Nice channel btw, you have good knowledge and great presentation skills.
Hi Peter, I haven’t specifically heard the Proac D18/Hegel combo together but I believe they have a similar house sound to my Proac Response 1SCs. According to Peter Ruler, owner of Igloo Hifi (a very good dealer in Kent, England), Proac and Hegel make natural bedfellows to produce the heart of a very well balanced system. He has sold lots of Proac/Hegel combos and his customers have been very happy with the results. So definitely worth giving the Hegel a try with the D18s. Thank you for taking the time to watch and comment on the video.
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Hi Tarun, that's a great information. I'll definetely give it a shot. I can audition this one. Just by coincidence - maybe you have also similar info regarding Spendor D7 w Hegel? Unfortunately this one I can not audition here in Slovakia and am curious if these 2 might match. Can you (or anybody you know) give a hint please? Thanks a lot
Hi Peter, you can never really tell if an amp can work with a certain pair of speakers unless you audition them at home so you can take into account your room acoustics and the rest of your system. I haven’t heard the Spendor D7s other than briefly at Hifi shows. They are good speakers but I would not consider them a natural partner for the Hegel amplifiers. These are my thoughts as to why... Hegel produce excellent amplifiers for the money but their tone is on the dry and analytical side. This is virtue of their lean, fast and tight bass, a slightly recessed lower midrange with a well extended and articulate upper midrange and treble. They partner very well with BBC type monitors and their derivatives (e.g. Harbeth, Falcon, Proac, etc.). These speakers tend to have a warm bass, prominent midrange and rolled off treble that compliment the Hegel amplifiers to produce a balanced sound. Although, Spendor speakers come from this tradition (their founder was an ex BBC engineer) the D7 have moved away from this traditional “British” sound. They have a very similar sonic characteristic to the Hegel with a fast, tight bass, slightly recessed mid and a lively (not bright) treble. It is an efficient speaker at 90db and a relatively easy load for amplifiers with 8 ohms nominal and a minimum of 4.5 ohms. As a result they are often partnered with low wattage valve amps but would work equally well with solid state amps with a similar warmer and fuller sound than the Hegel such as Exposure or Musical Fidelity. Like I say, you can’t be sure unless you try but that would be my take on it for what it is worth. Good luck!
Hi Tarun. Really enjoy your scientific/analytical approach. I live a Victorian era house with 'bijou' rooms. I understand the logic of distance behind the speaker to the nearest wall etc , but for me that would not be practical. Instead could I add some kind of sounds absorbing surface behind the speaker? Lastly what's your take on speaker cable? I'm hoping your going to say cables matter as I've just forked out for 10 m of ShawlineX :-S
You could try panel speakers like electrostats or ribbons They have little side to side output and will interact less with the wall I would place the subwoofer up off the floor and by the listening position so the waves reach you sooner before they've interacted with the room My room was a 1920's garage And this was my plan , that and full active -
DED NSIDE electrostatics should not be positioned near the wall behind as they radiate half the sound from the back. They need at least 1 metre behind and right out into the room is even better. In other words, dipole speakers are not really suited to smaller rooms.
DED NSIDE good full range electrostats are very large as a big area of diaphragm is required for adequate bass response. They are also very expensice and definitely not for the budget concious. My electrostats measure 500mwide 1500mm high
I isn’t necessarily bad just that sealed boxes typically are better. The port effects the compliance of the system so will have some effect to varying degrees across the range of the woofer 😊
Interesting video. It’s not clear on your suggested speaker distance from the wall. I use 2 NHT 2.3a tower speakers that are acoustic suspension sealed 27 inches from the front of the speaker to the front wall. Could you please repeat the distance you suggest again it unclear to me in the video. Many thanks sir!
Thank you for watching and commenting Cruzing RSX. It is the distance front the front (baffle) of your speaker to the wall behind the speaker that you are measuring. That is the wall in front of you as you are looking at the speakers. This distance should be a minimum of 90cm or 36 inches. Use a measuring tape and make sure both speakers are exactly the same. Find a well recorded track with a natural bass or double bass playing. Miles Davis Kind of Blue will do. Now, just listen to the bass instrument, nothing else. How clear and clean does it sound? Can you tell that he is playing different notes? Move both speakers 15cm or 6 inches forward and repeat the process. Does it sound better or worse? Keep doing this until you find the optimal position. Don’t be scared if the speakers are too far out even if you can keep them there. You are just trying to find out what your speakers are capable of. You can always mark the spot for serious listening and move them back the rest of the time. Good luck!
Concerning low frequencies: if we need to feature a drum bass with a 51 cm diameter membrane to produce that distinct sound, why we so not need a 51 cm in diameter woofer in a speaker to reproduce that same sound with same characteristics?
Hi Jesus, there are a bunch of reasons, aesthetics, space required, edge diffraction issues, size of motor assembly, driver integration issues but basically you don’t need a driver that size to reproduce those frequencies to the desired SPL in your home.
I read this comment a while back... "listening to a sealed enclosure is like hearing a guy speak... listening to a ported enclosure is like hearing a guy speak with a drunk guy next to him repeating what he's saying "..
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Hahaha I thought it was great when I read it, full disclosure, other than my AR2ax and AR3a, every pair since then has been ported... also all my subs have been ported.
Reading your comment was humorous. I have had both closed and ported, and have built both. I have built many guitar cabs . Almost every guitarist seems to want open or ported (excluding those who only value being loud) because a speaker that is free to move can deliver more micro detail. Despite the needs of a guitarist being different than an audiophile, the laws of physics regarding speakers in cabinets would not change. That is why some are claiming "open baffle design" to be superior . I have not tried open baffle but plan to try it. Having an open style design down rates a drivers power handling. Unfortunately too many buyers are swayed to speakers that have higher power ratings, when speaker efficiency is more important IMO. The great thing is there a lot of speaker designs out there that work very well, so we can all choose the style we like.
Hi Simon, there is no getting around the physics of it but some speakers are designed to work closer to wall boundaries. A manufacturer may increase the width of the front baffle, reduce it depth, tune it’s directivity and bass response so that it will perform reasonably well closer to a wall. Can’t speak for the NS1000s as I have not looked at this monitor in any detail. Thank you for watching 😉
Starting to feel small driver speakers shd all be sealed. Below port resonance the woofer is not controlled and port output is not in phase. Also in a small room its a bit silly to have a ported speaker 1 m out from the wall imo
Big cabinet, ported speakers are the way to go. JBL L100 Classic or Klipsh Cornwall is what I'm thinking. Those Bristish "Little Boys" that are over your shoulder, after you listened to the most commercial opera trash ever, are not for me. :^)) What is wrong with a 12 inch woofer, a 5 inch mid and a 1 inch tweeter? Nothing of course. The Met Opera opens this Monday night with "Fire Shut Up in My Bones" composed by Terence Blanchard. Even though it will be streamed, I can't wait to hear the intersection between Jazz and Opera. Better tunes, and better speakers British Audiophile; better tunes and speakers!
You talk about the bass, but what are the benefits of a sealed design across the rest of the frequency range? I have a sealed speaker. To me it sounds more even across the mid range. There is better definition to the bass but slightly less full than a ported design.
Hi Din, sealed box vs ported relates to the bass loading of the speaker. The mid range qualities of your speaker probably relate to other aspects of the design such as the drivers and crossover. You could argue that by being a sealed box, the quicker transient response may be apparent in the lower midrange as well. However, the main difference between a sealed box and a bass reflex (ported) design is that in a sealed box the low frequencies will roll off earlier but at a lesser gradient than a bass reflex design. That is why you perceive it as not being so full in the bass.
@@abritishaudiophile7314 My speakers are the Celef LS8 made by ProAc. It uses the same cabinet design as the LS3/5a. Maybe the cleaner mid range I perceive is down to the cabinet design which I believe was intended to control the resonances and push them down the frequency range. For a small bookshelf they do have great transient slam. Are sealed boxes always more inefficient? Is there increased air pressure within the cabinet and do the drivers have to work harder?
Hi Din, Wow! I didn’t know that Stewart Tyler made speakers for others. I looked up the Celef LS8 and it look a lot like the LS3/5a cabinet with the drivers that Proac use in other designs. I would love to learn more about this speaker. In a sealed box the energy created from the back pressure of the woofer is trapped inside the box and dissipated as heat. In a ported design some of that energy is used though the tuning of the port to give a boost or extension in the bass and this gives the ported design a benefit it terms of efficiency. 😉
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Interesting story to the Celef LS8. Celef is the original name of Stuart Tyler's company before it became ProAc. Here is the background to these speakers. facebook.com/601109779909018/posts/so-true-/1549442251742428/ They were never sold commercially and were only available direct from ProAc. I bought mine direct from the factory. These are Stuart Tyler's version of the LS3/5a. They were a limited run and I believe there are only about 30 pairs in existence. I've not heard the LS3/5a but compared to other ProAc standmounts I've owned, I think these are something special.
I’m currently looking at proAc as an option and have a 14 by 20 foot room.. which model would you Recommend.. I’ll be using the naim atom for amplifier and source..thanks
Ported speakers are a con because the extra bass is not true to the original input signal. It makes you think the speakers are better than they are. The best design is transmission line because that attenuates most of the backwave to prevent distortion of front wave. In sealed box speakers a lot of the backwave comes out through cone, distorting the front wave. I recommend a good book called 'Introduction to Loudspeakers and Enclosure Design' by Vivian Capel. Tip - instead of getting caught up in figures and formulae, use logic. The size of any speaker enclosure is an absolute limit to how low frequqnecies it can properly reproduce. It is a limit which can never be transcended as the laws of physics don't allow it.
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Which speaker enclosure is better for close to wall placement- transmission line or sealed box (eg. PMC vs ATC). Among manufacurers that produce speakers with transmission line enclosure there is PMC , that is known world wide and less known but available in Europe is Jean Marie Reynaud in France (generally cheaper). It is good to compare them. They both use transmission line, but have different philosophy and sound signature
Hi Eugeniusz, I am listening to the ATC SCM19s now and they need to be away from walls to sound their best. I am sure this is going to be the case with the PMCs as well. When you are spending this kind of money there is no point in having speakers close to a wall. You would be better of saving a £1,000 and going for the Proac Tablette 10s. Their designed to work close to the walls and will no doubt out perform the ATCs in that location. Thank you for watching and commenting 😉
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Cheers great to see HiFi is alive and we'll was beginning to think it was lost to people thanks for keeping it alive and well music is the bes t of humanity and hearing it at it's best is the job of HiFi cheers
What's your take on sub woofers? I find my Dali concept 1 speakers unsatisfying in a small room on their own. Much happier when I introduce the sub. The room is roughly 4 X 4 metres.
Hi Colin, one good, two better. Every system should have them. It is not just about bass extension. Although, that is important. They even the bass nodes out in a room if positioned properly. Think of them as active bass management. Once you have them there is no going back 👍😉
@@williammcquade3081 sub placement is a different beast. Probably should do a video on it at some point but just experiment to see where the bass sound best 😊
@@abritishaudiophile7314 The problem I have with that, is that I have one sub running off each channel from the pre output of the amp. So intuitively I'm thinking that one should be on the floor somewhere under the left speaker and the same on the right. I know that bass is omnidirectional but my OCD brain is telling me that there will be nuanced low end frequencies coming from a specific channel. Or, in the case of classical where the bass is usually stage right. Perhaps another sub? Probably not though! For the sake of marital harmony. Or at least tolerance!!
You kinda ran around the subject. "sealed is tighter, ported extends bass.... So now let me spend most of the video talking about rear ported enclosure placement"
More so years ago, there was the “British sound” with very natural midrange, rolled off highs and limited bass. It is just the stuff I grew up listening to. Hence, the name of my channel. I still think that sound characteristics works well in typical British living rooms which tend to be small and where you have acoustically lively spaces. Thank you for watching and commenting 😉
So then each design has a plus and a minus, while your semi tech overview is interesting the only way to evaluate speakers is to go and listen, a tech report on paper will give you no indication as to how its going to sound, i am not sure what your trying to achieve with this video report, i dont think the average buyer will have a clue or a particular interest in your tech talk. I think that its far more important to simply trust what your ears are telling you because as we all know stats figures and numbers do not paint a picture of what a speaker is going to sound like. While it maybe interesting to a few people i can speak from hands on experience in general customers who buy speakers dont care a jot as if its a sealed infinite baffel design or if its a ported bass reflex it means nothing. If the designers have done their work correctly then either design will sound good.
Well,successful implementing a hifi setup in a room simply requires some basic understanding,regardless of the quality level of the components. To often ive heard good speakers sounding ugly because that simple fact was ignored. Imho that Tarun tries to convey this basic knowledge in as simple terms as possible is commendable.
Zockopa and Steve, you both make good points. There are some speaker specs that can help give you an idea of what to expect in the sound. Larger woofers should supply deeper bass although vented systems can use smaller woofers for comparable bass response (Thiele/Small). The -3dB frequency will give an idea of low frequency foundation. Crossovers are important because woofer/tweeter crossover at too high a frequency will give poor dispersion. Efficiency, sensitivity and speaker impedance are important too. Of course how a speaker sounds in a showroom might be quite different from your abode.
@@edwardheynes3880 I do watch many many things related to audio and hifi i have worked in retail and i have a professional back ground in music and studio recording, and live music reproduction so i think i know what i am talking about, i have not just the paper qualifications but the studio time and the live music venue experience and a BSc in acoustics.
On cannot make a " beginners" video if they no longer think like a beginner . you are waay over educated to be attempting a simplified way of buying a stereo system.
Thanks, Tarun - I've just binge-watched the series and your explanations of the basics are concise and clear. Looking forward to more!
Thank you Thisisnew. Really appreciate your comments and you taking the time to take a look at my channel. Been on holiday but new content will be added soon. Planning to finish the series and then review some of my gear. Including my vintage Technics SE M100. It is a dual mono design, operating in class AA, housing two separate transformers, four large filter caps and a four channel 20 bit dac. So how far have things really moved on since 1989?
I really like that you play music at the beginning of your videos. Thanks for the tutorials!
Most welcome 👍
Sarah Brightman and Andrea Bocelli beautiful. This is a wonderful series on audio and putting together a quality system regardless of price. Great job Tarun. Love your videos
Thank you Donald, much appreciated 😊👍
I enjoyed your above video, there other pros and cons with ported and sealed box speakers, such as placement in rooms, sealed boxes tend to be less fussy and may be the answer to difficult rooms . Also the bass on sealed box speakers may often not go so down as on ported speakers, but the timing of it and its texture may often be an advantage on sealed box speakers, so beautifully expressed in ATC passive speakers. For those people who have 'difficult rooms' the sealed box speaker may be a solution, the compromise being having a more powerful amp to drive the speakers.
Hi Stargazer, I love ATC sealed box speakers as well. Thank you for watching and sharing your experience.
One important difference you did not mention involves the required size of the box for the two types, much smaller for a sealed design and much larger for a vented design. I mention this because very little market exists for large bass boxes, hence most speaker manufacturers are unwilling build large ported bass speakers. That results in vented systems being designed with very small boxes, which then introduces many of the problems associated with ported speakers, those being improper sonic characteristics coming from the vent that listeners call farting. But most importantly, the major sonic advantages possible with a vented design in addition to a very low f3 are never realized with such a small box. Sadly, the only way anyone can experience the awesome performance of a large ported bass speaker system is to build it yourself. Of course, the other aspects of good bass performance must also be adhered to, including proper placement of the speaker and listener in a room for flat response in the bass region, proper amp size to drive the bass speakers, adequate speaker cabling, and finally a good recording with nice sounding bass, which is actually not very common.
HiSpeaker Builder, thank you for watching and sharing your experiences.
Love the sound of a sealed sub I have peerless XLS 10” stereo subs they are awesome
But now I am enjoying OB bass different ball game altogether no 3 way tower can give the image of a dual 15” per side OB
Great discussion of the two types of enclosure and the diffraction due to wavelength. The pinhole camera analogy isn’t the same though until the aperture is extremely close, think about diffraction gratings. Pinhole cameras depend on the fact that light travels in straight lines to a surface and gets reflected and absorbed by the surfaces of objects it hits. It then gets scattered. The pinhole selects the rays that are travelling in directions that pass through the pinhole. These project overlapping patches of light onto the surface of the screen that together form the pinhole image. Pinhole cameras are only subject to diffraction when the pinhole is too small, less than the wavelengths of visible light. This makes the image blur a little and resolution decreases.
Hi Christopher, thank you for watching. The pinhole camera analogy was only used to illustrate a very basic point that high frequency audio signals beam a bit like a light passing through a much larger aperture than its wavelength to create an image. This video was aimed at people with a non technical background wanting to know a little more about the behaviour of speakers in a room. I didn’t want to get into too much depth about diffraction.
I found your channel to be very informative. Please enable subtitles. Strangely the auto-generated ones are not available.
Thank you. I need to figure out how to do that 🤔
Your explanations are clear and concise. Thanks again for the vid.
Thanks Marc, I appreciate your support and you taking the time to watch the videos and comment.
While I agree that ideal placement is not against the wall , I don't fully agree with the imaging argument on this. It may have gone over my head ! Please consider that most high frequencies are performed by a mid and tweeter or a tweeter on its own. Usually these drivers are in a sealed enclosure or sealed drivers within the cabinet. Whether the cabinet is ported or not these are enclosed. It is also through these driver that most of the imaging cues occur. I have great imaging in my too small room with front ported lows with compression driver highs. Speakers are almost against the rear wall but away from the side walls, possibly just as important for imaging. I like your explanations and videos.
Hi Kira, this video was aimed at primarily people who are new to this hobby. It was just general guidelines without getting into too many specifics. As I am sure you are aware, low frequencies at the tuning frequency of the port are omnidirectional and as a result the position of the port doesn’t make a huge amount of difference. The width of the front baffle, the depths of the speaker and the tuning of the design at low frequencies is likely to have much more bearing on how a speaker will perform close to a wall. Most ported speakers have been designed with the anticipation that they will be placed further away from the wall than a front ported or sealed box design. Andrew Jones designed Elac Debut B6 V1 vs V2 is a classic example. Thank you for watching and commenting 😊
A British Audiophile Thanks for the reply. My comments were mostly regarding imaging rather than speaker performance ( not quite the same). As a DIY speaker builder I always get a chuckle when speaker companies and designers get rave reviews for recycling old designs with off the shelf products. Look, we have added bracing to our speakers, or look a new waveguide.... A few years ago I was in the local Elac dealers showroom and listening to a beautiful set of speakers. When told the price was $3000 , I was shocked because they were definitely as involving as my custom system. I then stated these are the best $3k speakers I have heard to date. The salesperson looked at me with a smile and corrected me, they were actually $30,000. I left with a smile on my face.
KEF 104 series speakers uses a bandpass box which is a very unique design for floor-standing speakers.
Hi David, thank you for watching and commenting 😊
Good video ! I would perhaps add that ported or bass relex speakers are much more power effecient, give a better sound with extended frequency response for the lows- tymphanny drum etc . Additionally would elaborate on front ported speakers wherein the sound energy from the rear of the speaker drive units cone is pushed out in phase with that of the front of the cone. I prefer front ported units to back ported ones.
Thank you for sharing 😊
Would having an SVS 1000 SB pro in a small room help out the speakers. Like the mid range. Room size 13 by 13 by 9ft ceilings. Have an AVR not properly calibrated yet because have not got the new CD DVD player.
Not sure what you mean by “help out the speakers” Brian 🤔
I really like your videos and the content. If one is willing to get something out of the content it will work. Thx for using your obvious longterm expertise to create these videos in a way that beginners (me) can understand. Understand in a way meant of gettting knowledge. Munter bleiben ! Greetings for germany.
Thank you for watching Michael. I appreciate your kind words of support 😊👍
That was a good clear explanation of ported speakers.
Thanks dell177.
Lovely music !
Thank you Jen 😉👍
Given that loudspeakers are placed 5ms/2 or greater from any boundary (wall), and that there would still be a first reflection that is out of phase regardless, is there then an ideal distance beyond the minimum that would be dependent on the resonant frequency of a particular loudspeaker? In other words, can sound reproduction be improved even further by tuning the speaker-wall distance to be optimized to some particular characteristic of the loudspeaker so that the out of phase reflections have a minimal impact on sound reproduction, or does the falloff in intensity of reflected acoustic energy at such distances make any effort not worthwhile?
Thank you for watching and sharing Aerostar 😊
Have I understood this correctly, in my proposed listening room or ‘man cave’ as my wife calls it, I would be better with a sealed box speaker set up as the speakers will have to be placed reasonably close to the wall as the room is only going to be approximately 9ft x 9ft. A rear ported design would have to sit too far into the room and compromise usable space?
Hi Martin, you may want to check out my video on placing speaker close to walls. I hope it helps...
ruclips.net/video/mjliP25NiW4/видео.html
Very useful video...thanks. I'm a new subscriber and fan of your channel, and find your videos really helpful! Could you possibly comment on front ported speakers. I have a small, almost square listening room and was thinking that front ported standmounted bookshelf speakers might be the way to go to avoid boomy base issues and also as I can't place the speakers 85 cm from side/back wall...I was looking at the Sonus Faber Sonetto 1s or the PMC Twenty5.21 as possible contenders? Would welcome any advice. Thanks again.
Hi Marc, thank you for watching and your support of my channel. It is very much appreciated.
Bass is omni directional and the location of the port is not as critical as it may first appear. Don’t get me wrong, a rear ported speaker will throw out more energy backwards. It is more about the fact that a rear ported speaker is likely to be designed to work further from walls than an a sealed box or front ported speaker. Clues are the frequency response, sensitivity, width of front baffle, etc.. Speakers designed to work closer to walls are likely to be shallower in depth and have a wider front baffle, not so much bass extension as the wall boundaries will boost bass and as a result will probably have a gain in sensitivity via virtue of not going for so much bass extension. This is a generalisation and oversimplification of course.
The only thing to consider with a front ported design is that if you play loud and listen close, port chuffing can become audible with some designs. It is like a “bottom burp” sound that is farther unpleasant. Good designers will consider this and reduce this form of distortion by carefully engineered the size and shape of the port. Hope this helps.
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Thank you! And for the amazingly quick reply, much appreciated. Great channel - I am in the process of binge-watching all of your videos and learning a lot - am sure will have more questions. You have great presentation skills too. Keep up the good work!
Thank you Marc 👍
Hi Tarun, I see you have ProAc bookshelve speakers with Hegel. Have you ever tried Response D18s? Or do you think it might be a good combo? Nice channel btw, you have good knowledge and great presentation skills.
Hi Peter, I haven’t specifically heard the Proac D18/Hegel combo together but I believe they have a similar house sound to my Proac Response 1SCs. According to Peter Ruler, owner of Igloo Hifi (a very good dealer in Kent, England), Proac and Hegel make natural bedfellows to produce the heart of a very well balanced system. He has sold lots of Proac/Hegel combos and his customers have been very happy with the results. So definitely worth giving the Hegel a try with the D18s.
Thank you for taking the time to watch and comment on the video.
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Hi Tarun, that's a great information. I'll definetely give it a shot. I can audition this one. Just by coincidence - maybe you have also similar info regarding Spendor D7 w Hegel? Unfortunately this one I can not audition here in Slovakia and am curious if these 2 might match. Can you (or anybody you know) give a hint please? Thanks a lot
Hi Peter, you can never really tell if an amp can work with a certain pair of speakers unless you audition them at home so you can take into account your room acoustics and the rest of your system. I haven’t heard the Spendor D7s other than briefly at Hifi shows. They are good speakers but I would not consider them a natural partner for the Hegel amplifiers. These are my thoughts as to why...
Hegel produce excellent amplifiers for the money but their tone is on the dry and analytical side. This is virtue of their lean, fast and tight bass, a slightly recessed lower midrange with a well extended and articulate upper midrange and treble. They partner very well with BBC type monitors and their derivatives (e.g. Harbeth, Falcon, Proac, etc.). These speakers tend to have a warm bass, prominent midrange and rolled off treble that compliment the Hegel amplifiers to produce a balanced sound.
Although, Spendor speakers come from this tradition (their founder was an ex BBC engineer) the D7 have moved away from this traditional “British” sound. They have a very similar sonic characteristic to the Hegel with a fast, tight bass, slightly recessed mid and a lively (not bright) treble. It is an efficient speaker at 90db and a relatively easy load for amplifiers with 8 ohms nominal and a minimum of 4.5 ohms. As a result they are often partnered with low wattage valve amps but would work equally well with solid state amps with a similar warmer and fuller sound than the Hegel such as Exposure or Musical Fidelity.
Like I say, you can’t be sure unless you try but that would be my take on it for what it is worth. Good luck!
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Thanks a lot Tarun for your thoughts. Makes perfect sense. Cheers
Hi Tarun. Really enjoy your scientific/analytical approach.
I live a Victorian era house with 'bijou' rooms. I understand the logic of distance behind the speaker to the nearest wall etc , but for me that would not be practical. Instead could I add some kind of sounds absorbing surface behind the speaker?
Lastly what's your take on speaker cable? I'm hoping your going to say cables matter as I've just forked out for 10 m of ShawlineX :-S
You could try panel speakers like electrostats or ribbons
They have little side to side output
and will interact less with the wall
I would place the subwoofer up off the floor and by the listening position so the waves reach you sooner before they've interacted with the room
My room was a 1920's garage
And this was my plan , that and full active -
@@dednside5229 Thanks Jeremy :-)
DED NSIDE electrostatics should not be positioned near the wall behind as they radiate half the sound from the back. They need at least 1 metre behind and right out into the room is even better. In other words, dipole speakers are not really suited to smaller rooms.
@@geoff37s38
Move them out from the wall when listening to midfield
In other words thier perfect for small rooms for alot of different reasons
DED NSIDE good full range electrostats are very large as a big area of diaphragm is required for adequate bass response. They are also very expensice and definitely not for the budget concious. My electrostats measure 500mwide 1500mm high
for mid range and tweeter box, do port or sealed will make difference?
I am not sure I understand 😊
Can be considered audiophile a pair of HACKER speakers from 1971? Seems to be sealed.
I am not familiar with them. Maybe someone else can help 😊👍
Transient response of ported speakers will be bad for all frequencies or only for the port frequencies?
I isn’t necessarily bad just that sealed boxes typically are better. The port effects the compliance of the system so will have some effect to varying degrees across the range of the woofer 😊
@@abritishaudiophile7314 thanks.
Interesting video. It’s not clear on your suggested speaker distance from the wall. I use 2 NHT 2.3a tower speakers that are acoustic suspension sealed 27 inches from the front of the speaker to the front wall. Could you please repeat the distance you suggest again it unclear to me in the video. Many thanks sir!
Thank you for watching and commenting Cruzing RSX. It is the distance front the front (baffle) of your speaker to the wall behind the speaker that you are measuring. That is the wall in front of you as you are looking at the speakers. This distance should be a minimum of 90cm or 36 inches. Use a measuring tape and make sure both speakers are exactly the same.
Find a well recorded track with a natural bass or double bass playing. Miles Davis Kind of Blue will do. Now, just listen to the bass instrument, nothing else. How clear and clean does it sound? Can you tell that he is playing different notes? Move both speakers 15cm or 6 inches forward and repeat the process. Does it sound better or worse? Keep doing this until you find the optimal position. Don’t be scared if the speakers are too far out even if you can keep them there. You are just trying to find out what your speakers are capable of. You can always mark the spot for serious listening and move them back the rest of the time. Good luck!
Tarun A British Audiophile thank you for the information and quick reply. I’m looking forward to your future videos. Peace
Concerning low frequencies: if we need to feature a drum bass with a 51 cm diameter membrane to produce that distinct sound, why we so not need a 51 cm in diameter woofer in a speaker to reproduce that same sound with same characteristics?
Hi Jesus, there are a bunch of reasons, aesthetics, space required, edge diffraction issues, size of motor assembly, driver integration issues but basically you don’t need a driver that size to reproduce those frequencies to the desired SPL in your home.
I read this comment a while back...
"listening to a sealed enclosure is like hearing a guy speak...
listening to a ported enclosure is like hearing a guy speak with a drunk guy next to him repeating what he's saying "..
Hi poserwannabe, That is a great comment, I have never heard that before. Although, there are some great ported speakers out there.
@@abritishaudiophile7314
Hahaha I thought it was great when I read it, full disclosure, other than my AR2ax and AR3a, every pair since then has been ported... also all my subs have been ported.
Reading your comment was humorous. I have had both closed and ported, and have built both. I have built many guitar cabs . Almost every guitarist seems to want open or ported (excluding those who only value being loud) because a speaker that is free to move can deliver more micro detail. Despite the needs of a guitarist being different than an audiophile, the laws of physics regarding speakers in cabinets would not change. That is why some are claiming "open baffle design" to be superior . I have not tried open baffle but plan to try it. Having an open style design down rates a drivers power handling. Unfortunately too many buyers are swayed to speakers that have higher power ratings, when speaker efficiency is more important IMO. The great thing is there a lot of speaker designs out there that work very well, so we can all choose the style we like.
Beautiful!!!!! Sound!
Thank you Jerry 😉
Do bookshelf speakers like the NS1000s just ignore the 5ms rule?
Hi Simon, there is no getting around the physics of it but some speakers are designed to work closer to wall boundaries. A manufacturer may increase the width of the front baffle, reduce it depth, tune it’s directivity and bass response so that it will perform reasonably well closer to a wall. Can’t speak for the NS1000s as I have not looked at this monitor in any detail. Thank you for watching 😉
Starting to feel small driver speakers shd all be sealed. Below port resonance the woofer is not controlled and port output is not in phase. Also in a small room its a bit silly to have a ported speaker 1 m out from the wall imo
A lot of sense in having sealed enclosures, especially in small rooms. Thanks you for sharing.
Big cabinet, ported speakers are the way to go. JBL L100 Classic or Klipsh Cornwall is what I'm thinking. Those Bristish "Little Boys" that are over your shoulder, after you listened to the most commercial opera trash ever, are not for me. :^)) What is wrong with a 12 inch woofer, a 5 inch mid and a 1 inch tweeter? Nothing of course. The Met Opera opens this Monday night with "Fire Shut Up in My Bones" composed by Terence Blanchard. Even though it will be streamed, I can't wait to hear the intersection between Jazz and Opera. Better tunes, and better speakers British Audiophile; better tunes and speakers!
Horses for courses Mark. Thank you for watching and sharing your experiences 😊
You talk about the bass, but what are the benefits of a sealed design across the rest of the frequency range? I have a sealed speaker. To me it sounds more even across the mid range. There is better definition to the bass but slightly less full than a ported design.
Hi Din, sealed box vs ported relates to the bass loading of the speaker. The mid range qualities of your speaker probably relate to other aspects of the design such as the drivers and crossover. You could argue that by being a sealed box, the quicker transient response may be apparent in the lower midrange as well. However, the main difference between a sealed box and a bass reflex (ported) design is that in a sealed box the low frequencies will roll off earlier but at a lesser gradient than a bass reflex design. That is why you perceive it as not being so full in the bass.
@@abritishaudiophile7314 My speakers are the Celef LS8 made by ProAc. It uses the same cabinet design as the LS3/5a. Maybe the cleaner mid range I perceive is down to the cabinet design which I believe was intended to control the resonances and push them down the frequency range. For a small bookshelf they do have great transient slam. Are sealed boxes always more inefficient? Is there increased air pressure within the cabinet and do the drivers have to work harder?
Hi Din, Wow! I didn’t know that Stewart Tyler made speakers for others. I looked up the Celef LS8 and it look a lot like the LS3/5a cabinet with the drivers that Proac use in other designs. I would love to learn more about this speaker.
In a sealed box the energy created from the back pressure of the woofer is trapped inside the box and dissipated as heat. In a ported design some of that energy is used though the tuning of the port to give a boost or extension in the bass and this gives the ported design a benefit it terms of efficiency. 😉
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Interesting story to the Celef LS8. Celef is the original name of Stuart Tyler's company before it became ProAc. Here is the background to these speakers. facebook.com/601109779909018/posts/so-true-/1549442251742428/ They were never sold commercially and were only available direct from ProAc. I bought mine direct from the factory. These are Stuart Tyler's version of the LS3/5a. They were a limited run and I believe there are only about 30 pairs in existence. I've not heard the LS3/5a but compared to other ProAc standmounts I've owned, I think these are something special.
Sarah Brightman!!!!! ❤️
Cool 😎
I’m currently looking at proAc as an option and have a 14 by 20 foot room.. which model would you
Recommend.. I’ll be using the naim atom for amplifier and source..thanks
Hi Gerald, I would start with the DT8s
Ported speakers are a con because the extra bass is not true to the original input signal. It makes you think the speakers are better than they are. The best design is transmission line because that attenuates most of the backwave to prevent distortion of front wave. In sealed box speakers a lot of the backwave comes out through cone, distorting the front wave. I recommend a good book called 'Introduction to Loudspeakers and Enclosure Design' by Vivian Capel. Tip - instead of getting caught up in figures and formulae, use logic. The size of any speaker enclosure is an absolute limit to how low frequqnecies it can properly reproduce. It is a limit which can never be transcended as the laws of physics don't allow it.
Hi Coneman3, I have Celestion 300 transmission line speakers and they have exceptional bass. Thank you for watching 😂
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Which speaker enclosure is better for close to wall placement- transmission line or sealed box (eg. PMC vs ATC). Among manufacurers that produce speakers with transmission line enclosure there is PMC , that is known world wide and less known but available in Europe is Jean Marie Reynaud in France (generally cheaper). It is good to compare them. They both use transmission line, but have different philosophy and sound signature
Hi Eugeniusz, I am listening to the ATC SCM19s now and they need to be away from walls to sound their best. I am sure this is going to be the case with the PMCs as well. When you are spending this kind of money there is no point in having speakers close to a wall. You would be better of saving a £1,000 and going for the Proac Tablette 10s. Their designed to work close to the walls and will no doubt out perform the ATCs in that location. Thank you for watching and commenting 😉
Thank you for advice
For a neophyte audiophile taking wavelengths into consideration complicates things a lot.
It was a bit too much. One of my first videos so very early on in my process of learning what to include and what to leave out 😉
in low volumes i think sealed speakers are best.
Thank you for watching and commenting 😊
If speakers are good and positioned properly they will sound good regardless
Hi Brian, I agree with you totally 😊
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Cheers great to see HiFi is alive and we'll was beginning to think it was lost to people thanks for keeping it alive and well music is the bes t of humanity and hearing it at it's best is the job of HiFi cheers
Thank you Brian 😊
What's your take on sub woofers? I find my Dali concept 1 speakers unsatisfying in a small room on their own. Much happier when I introduce the sub. The room is roughly 4 X 4 metres.
Hi Colin, one good, two better. Every system should have them. It is not just about bass extension. Although, that is important. They even the bass nodes out in a room if positioned properly. Think of them as active bass management. Once you have them there is no going back 👍😉
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Does the same distance rule apply for unported subs?
@@williammcquade3081 sub placement is a different beast. Probably should do a video on it at some point but just experiment to see where the bass sound best 😊
@@abritishaudiophile7314 The problem I have with that, is that I have one sub running off each channel from the pre output of the amp. So intuitively I'm thinking that one should be on the floor somewhere under the left speaker and the same on the right. I know that bass is omnidirectional but my OCD brain is telling me that there will be nuanced low end frequencies coming from a specific channel. Or, in the case of classical where the bass is usually stage right.
Perhaps another sub? Probably not though! For the sake of marital harmony. Or at least tolerance!!
@@williammcquade3081 I can’t accommodate two subs easily for similar reasons 😉
You kinda ran around the subject. "sealed is tighter, ported extends bass.... So now let me spend most of the video talking about rear ported enclosure placement"
What do you like about British you make your own stuff and we just sent it off to China and get bad really bad quality
More so years ago, there was the “British sound” with very natural midrange, rolled off highs and limited bass. It is just the stuff I grew up listening to. Hence, the name of my channel. I still think that sound characteristics works well in typical British living rooms which tend to be small and where you have acoustically lively spaces. Thank you for watching and commenting 😉
So then each design has a plus and a minus, while your semi tech overview is interesting the only way to evaluate speakers is to go and listen, a tech report on paper will give you no indication as to how its going to sound, i am not sure what your trying to achieve with this video report, i dont think the average buyer will have a clue or a particular interest in your tech talk. I think that its far more important to simply trust what your ears are telling you because as we all know stats figures and numbers do not paint a picture of what a speaker is going to sound like. While it maybe interesting to a few people i can speak from hands on experience in general customers who buy speakers dont care a jot as if its a sealed infinite baffel design or if its a ported bass reflex it means nothing. If the designers have done their work correctly then either design will sound good.
Well,successful implementing a hifi setup in a room simply requires some basic understanding,regardless of the quality level of the
components. To often ive heard good speakers sounding ugly because that simple fact was ignored. Imho that Tarun tries to convey
this basic knowledge in as simple terms as possible is commendable.
Zockopa and Steve, you both make good points. There are some speaker specs that can help give you an idea of what to expect in the sound. Larger woofers should supply deeper bass although vented systems can use smaller woofers for comparable bass response (Thiele/Small). The -3dB frequency will give an idea of low frequency foundation. Crossovers are important because woofer/tweeter crossover at too high a frequency will give poor dispersion. Efficiency, sensitivity and speaker impedance are important too.
Of course how a speaker sounds in a showroom might be quite different from your abode.
We care so sod off and watch something else.
@@edwardheynes3880 I do watch many many things related to audio and hifi i have worked in retail and i have a professional back ground in music and studio recording, and live music reproduction so i think i know what i am talking about, i have not just the paper qualifications but the studio time and the live music venue experience and a BSc in acoustics.
On cannot make a " beginners" video if they no longer think like a beginner . you are waay over educated to be attempting a simplified way of buying a stereo system.
Thank you Sirios. I tried my best to keep it simple 😊