That was a well thought out explanation, better than any I’ve ever heard. I’m 58 and have been an audiophile on and off for 40 yrs. You are a great asset to this quest for good sound.
This would have to be one of the top two RUclips articles on hifi topics I have read in recent years. The other articles is his talk about speaker placement. Well done Tanun
Nothing more to add. Everyone has already said how helpful and clear your advice is and it makes sense to me based on my experience based on the 5 sets of speakers I've owned since 1979.
My personal recommendation is to get your expectations aligned with the amount of effort and money you are willing to invest. The first question would be, where do you want to place your system and in what manner will you use it. Will you be doing critical listening in a dedicated room, or will you play some music in the background in your living room as you do other stuff? Are you all about the quality or ease of use? Lastly, how "perfectionist" are you, are you a "buy and forget" person? If you are reading this, then you are probably not... answering this question might reevaluate your answer to the first one. The answers will of course will change over time as well as your needs, but it is important to answer them first so you won't be disappointed from your first gear. Like others, I believe that room and placements are a huge factor, if not the most important one (by far). So the room and placement will probably be the result of the questions I've mentioned above. Essentially, if you are not willing to place your system in a relatively symmetric room, with some distance from wall boundaries, aiming for equilateral triangle, then there will be a relatively low budget where you money will just goto waste. Lastly, the room size does matter. I think bookshelves are great value, but they just won't cut it when it comes to big rooms. They will sound small compared to bigger cabinets, and small sound is really no fun, no matter what the volume is. Specs are important but a 40 litter floor stander will usually sound bigger than a 20 litter bookshelf who claims to go lower (for the same price). Adding a subwoofer is always great. But if you are a beginner, do yourself a favour and select a floor-standing speaker for moderate to big rooms. It will take care of the synergy between the lows and the rest of the frequencies much easier than matching a sub to a bookshelf, as the crossover between them is usually more audible the higher the crossover is (and why not, they were not designed together). On the same topic, the driver size also matter. A big woofer driver, or 2 small ones, will pressurise your room better than one small one. If we do want to get a bit more nerdy, I would also add that sensitivity of the speaker does matter, but what more important is the resistance rating and its spread across the spectrum. If you buy a speaker with a 3 ohm dip, you better get an amplifier that is capable of that. That amplifier might affect your budgeting decisions. I believe this channel covers this topic perfectly in another video. Lastly #2, take it easy, it won't sound like a live concert or like the way you know music back when you were 14. Enjoy what your system CAN do, as it is a world of compromises.
Hi Astro Boy, I pretty much agree with every word of that. This is great advice for people new to the hobby and seasoned audiophiles. Thank you for sharing. 😉👍
I remember watching Astro Boy on tv as a kid. Sounds like you know your stuff. Designing and building speaker systems that sell for top dollar is easy. R&D loves big budgets. Mid and lower cost systems are more of a design challenge. Unfortunately, that's where most of us are forced to shop. Loudspeakers and compromise go hand in hand. Choose wisely young Skywalker.
@@martyjewell5683 That's a piece of history right there! I totally agree, speakers are besically compromised by its nature. For me, the good think (or bad) is that the most important factor by far is placement room treatment. I got crazy imaging from budget systems that could beat my main one. Once I experienced good imaging, I started doubting my decisions purchasing that expensive (for me) gear.
Great video Tarun, I always look forward to your posts. It’s all been trial and error for me over the last 30 years and I’ve made a few mistakes along the way as no doubt we all have. You’re doing those new to the community a great service and most likely saving them a few quid! 👍🏼
I learned speaker placement from experimenting with it. It isn’t the same with any two pairs of speakers I have heard. It is more about patience in placement and using those tools we already have, your ears and your brain. Really good video Tarun. I am anxiously waiting for the next one.😊👍🏻
Another excellent vid! All great points. Thanks, Tarun! 🎶👍🔊✌️ I auditioned close to 20 pairs of speakers ranging in price from $1K up to aprox $15 - $20K before hearing a pair of Tekton speakers at my buddy’s place, and I immediately knew it was the sound I’d been looking for regardless of price. Choosing the right speaker can be quite a daunting task.
A lucid and logical explanation on speaker choice. My first (hifi) speaker purchase in 1974 were the KLH model 31. I upgraded in 1978 to Ohm Acoustics model L and still use these amazing systems today, over forty years later. Sound in my 1,745 cu/ft living room is clean, clear with solid bass to near 40Hz. Positioned so the stereo image is "excellent- to the point where the sound seems almost totally detached from the speakers". Capable of playing quite loud and filling a larger room with satisfactory sound. Other speaker systems I own?? Jensen JP-1200, EPI-100 and EPI-180, Ohm Acoustics model H, Synergistics S12B and Boston Acoustics A-40. No TOWER speakers for me. A word to the wise..... Don't overlook vintage models, they can be very satisfying indeed.
@@abritishaudiophile7314, a critical aspect of speaker purchase is educating our ears to know just what accurate sound is. Far too many nimrods cheerfully spend their dough on impressive, flashy (boom and sizzle) systems. Not a real problem with "budget" speaker prices but a disaster in the making when large amounts of cash are involved. Speakers ain't cheap no more. Buyers remorse is a very real malady, caveat emptor.
Thank you for a video that can help everyone! This is the valuable info that few talk about and something that is essential in getting good sound. Good sound is why we are here in this hobby.
Great info and at a detail level that would help most people when choosing speakers. Every new buyer should watch this video! Wish I had this knowledge when I bought some of my units many years ago. Thanks.
@ A British Audiophile Hi Tarun, thank you for putting up this video. I especially appreciate your focus on going to the basics because many of us (I think) cannot commit to being audiophiles for a number of reasons such as a) equipment is not available in our region; b) it is outside of budget and c) we are all too aware of the law of diminishing returns. A final reality is that, in my case, I listen to music in my bedroom rather than a dedicated listening space therefore I have to make do with certain imperfections and try to improve what I've already got. Your videos are helpful for the purpose of fine tuning which I genuinely feel is relevant to more of your viewers than simply spending more on equipment as other RUclipsrs regularly insist on. I'm looking forward to your next series on room treatment for the average house/bedroom, using A+B speaker setup, etc.
Excellent, as usual.the last point you made was extraordinarily important, namely that spending more money may not be the solution to many people's sonic quest. as you have pointed out in other videos, spending more money is never an magical, singular way to get good sound and I appreciate that you continue to include that kind of fact.
Thank you DH. I totally agree, throwing money at the problem without thinking is seldomly is going to lead you to musical nirvana. Thank you for watching and commenting 😉👍
Great stuff As a general rule (1125 / 2 x room length) in ft. to find room resonance , Add 10 hz for ported designs, 20hz for sealed or transmission line and you find the lower speaker frequency response for your room. A stable impedance, and good sensitivity will be less amp fussy. These days a decent DAC will sort the front end , unless you choose analogue then its £500+ minimum + a decent phono stage. Then its just a question of budget.
Hi Tarun. I very much like your videos. I just wanted to add my views and experience about choosing speakers and amps. I personally selected my speakers based on the fact that I wanted to use a low watt SET amp. I ended up purchasing a 6 watt per channel Deckware SET integrated amp (ample power for a relatively small room) and then matched it with 98 dB full range Tekton Enzo speakers that are neutral sounding. Once I replaced the stock tubes with Gold Lion preamp and output tubes (KT 77) the outcome was very nice. My sources include a Soekris r2r dac and an Innuous Mk3 server. The other point I wanted to make is that it is possible to create nice sounding and reasonably priced systems by carefully matching components. Over the years I have learned a lot by doing my own research and through channels such as yours and Zero Fidelity.
Immaculate conception of the presentation...extremly useful for the novice people in HQ audio...very pleasant indeed to renew, confirm and even wide its knowledge for the others audiophiles...Great job as always Tarun..Bravo!
I have kept an open mind and listened to all sorts of speakers in all places: Pubs, hi-fi shows, in record shops,in hi-fi shops (casually and in a demo) at other homes, in a fairground. This gives me a feeling for the kind of speaker sound I like. Then I know what I am after
Great advice! I made a huge mistake, I bought my dream speakers (Infinity IRS Beta). My room was too small, because they are dipole, even with the rule of third and acoustic treatment my room is just simply to small. Lesson learned the hard way.
You nailed it. Exellent. And its obvious that for most ppl a 2-way will be optimal,although in my experience the optimal setup often getting trumped by the so called WAF-factor..... Unless of course their is a dedicated listening room available.
Another great video. When reading or watching reviews the first realisation is to understand that it’s very rare to find reviewer who will give an overall bad review. Generally a reviewer will not publish a review if they can’t find anything positive to say about the product. This doesn’t mean that products that don’t have many, if any, reviews are not good, but I would be very careful if I was considering such a product. So with most products that are reviewed getting a good review how does one decide which products should go on the short list? In my experience, the reviewer will leave little clues in the review about any potential issues the product may have and one should look out for these as they may well give you a steer as to whether a product will meet your requirements. I bought a new pair of speakers last year and I am fortunate as there are still a number of retailers within reasonable travelling distance who will demonstrate equipment. However, I still found the decision making process very difficult. I eventually started bringing my own amplifiers to the demonstrations to try and replicate my own home conditions. And yet, because the room is so important, I don’t think this was totally successful. Unless you can get a home demonstration, or a dealer who will accept returns if your not happy, or if you distance buy, which in the UK gives you the right to return an item if you want, I think it’s very difficult to get this purchase right.
Thank you Patrick for sharing this. It will be very helpful to others. You are right, it is tricky to know what to go for. With regards to the lack negative reviews, here is my take on things. I only tend to pick products to review that I think are interesting or I would imagine, based on past experience of the brand, will perform very well. Of course, this is no guarantee of performance or that I will like it when it eventually arrives. However, most manufacturers tweak their designs and the product evolves over successive generations rather sounding dramatically different. It helps that I have accumulated a lot of experience listening to many products over years when selecting products to review. As the manufacturer has sent me a product in good faith, if for whatever reason I can not get on with it, I will let the manufacturer know. It may be that I have done something wrong in setup or there is a fault with the product. If these issue can not be resolved, I will return the product along with my feedback. The manufacturer may choose to take this on board and deal with it in a future revision. I don’t want to be responsible for adversely affecting someone else’s business. The only exception would be if I think a manufacturer is in some way trying to exploit their prospective customers. Then they deserve to be called out. I am early on in my reviewing career and as yet I have not had to do this.
I still listen to my 30 years old Hi-Fi. I have (larger) bookshelf speakers, costing at that time 500 Deutsche Mark each. A year ago I moved into a Loft. So large room, making me think I need bigger speakers. But in fact, they still sound great for me here. Maybe it could be better but it sounds that good to me that I do not feel the need to change. Happy man
Tarun, I’ve been enjoying your videos. This one’s great too. I’ve recently moved to another country and put my speakers in a much different environment compared to my old house. Two things have made a dramatic and negative impact on my system. I’m forced to set up my speakers in a non-symmetric location, making it near impossible to achieve a good center image. Also, the stud spacing in the walls are further apart that what I’m used to. I think the walls are acting as membranes and are exaggerating the bass peaks and nulls. It’s a mess. When you create your video on room acoustics/treatment it would be great if you could address these issues. I imagine I’m not the only one who has them.
I want to commend you again on a terrific, informative, and well-planned video that provides tons of useful information. You are quickly becoming my favorite audiophile channel on RUclips (actually, one of my favorite channels, full stop.) I would, however, second the observation below about sourcing an amp first, prior to selecting a speaker. I have been burned in the past by falling in love with a speaker (Magnepans) that required way more power than my amp could provide. I then had go out and get the monoblocks needed to drive them appropriately. If I had to build a system over again, I would make sure I had my electronics down and settled before exploring speakers, but I would be very curious your take on this. Is it a foolhardy strategy? That would make for an interesting follow-up video.
Hi Game Escape, thank you for your kind words of support. I agree that if you already have an amplifier that you like and want to keep, you need to choose a speaker that would work well with that amplifier. However, if you are starting from scratch, I would start with the speakers first. Going with the amplifier first will significantly reduce your choice of speakers. The power output of the amplifier might be an issue but the getting the synergy right between amplifier and speakers will be the limiting factor. Doing things the other way round ensures that you have the right speakers for your room/tastes and then you choose your amplifier accordingly. 😉
Thanks for this video Tarun. My speaker search is not quite going along these lines. I’ve identified what’s most important for me and it turned out to be an elusive sonic quality! I’m looking for the natural, realistic reproduction of female voices. (One can easily get that, in a way, with headphones but I much, much, much prefer listening to my music through speakers). I’m a newbie at this Hi-Fi thing but I have listened to reasonably priced models from companies like ATC, Magnepan, Harbeth, Dynaudio, B&W, Wharfedale, Q Acoustics, etc. and the sonic coloration over female voices in all cases was surprisingly high. This is in different rooms with different front ends. When using the word coloration here, I include anything that makes the voices non-realistic. An obvious coloration is the boxiness of mainstream speakers (muffled sound, especially at low volumes). It seems that most audio reviewers are used to this un-realistic reproduction of female voices and don’t hear it anymore or take it for granted, often mentioning "natural midrange" in the face of obvious unnatural sonic clues. And this brings me to an inquiry: of all the bookshelf speakers that you have listened to (at whatever price), which ones were the best at reproducing female voices in a "real life" manner? My current humble speakers are a pair of US$200 (used price) Cambridge Audio Aero 2 with that BMR driver. The more recent Aeromax 2 is supposedly a bit better. The balanced mode radiator driver covers the frequency range from 250 Hz to 22 kHz and the traditional woofer covers the lower frequencies. These speakers are not as bad as the other ones I have listened to so far with regards to female voices but they have some flaws of their own (not very good at high listening volume for example) so I’m still searching. Our local Montreal Audio Show was of course cancelled this year. Anything out there that have impressed you with female voices, at any price? And if we consider the price, anything interesting below US$3000? Any feedback would be much appreciated! Long live your channel!
Hi Claude, thank you for sharing your experiences. I am not sure you can get a speaker that is totally natural. Of course, it is not just down to the speaker, the amplifier, source and recording itself needs to be up to par as well. In really we all have to accept certain compromises, especially if we want to keep the cost reasonable. There are some great speaker brands that you have mentioned. However, they will all impose their own specific colouration on the music. You are going to have to take a whole system approach to try to get as natural a midrange as possible. The Hegel H190 and ATC SCM19’s are pretty natural sounding with female vocals but are going to be pricey over in Canada. If I recall, that is where you are from. The Magnepan LRS with a Classe amplifiers would be worth auditioning and probably better value in Canada. Please let me know how you get on. 😉👍
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Thanks for your insight Tarun. I’ve listened to the ATC SCM40 v2 and the Magnepan 1.7i (this one with the Hegel H190 in a well treated room). These two didn’t give me what I wanted but I’ll be careful not to dismiss some speakers too quickly considering the importance of synergies and the whole of the audio chain. Right now, I want to listen to what’s available out there and find out if there is a quick and easy way for me to reach female vocals bliss. Next weekend, I’ll bring home a pair of Revel Performa3 M106 for a one-day audition. Naturally, I looked if there were other speakers with a BMR driver but at a higher level than the Cambridge Audio Aero 2s. Didn’t find much but Rega offers one unusual beast: the expensive RS10 with a BMR driver covering the 300 Hz to 6 kHz range. Did you get a chance to listen to a pair of those? Thanks again for your time.
Great work as usual! Listening to friends' speakers good or bad and reading reviews of them can put you on to similar or contrasting speakers by the same reviewers helping to narrow the options. Thanks!
A good strategy - almost excactly the process I have been through over the last six months. I chose a budget figure and picked three speakers to audition. Actually, a pair of Proac D2's (not the R-version) was on my shortlist. Incidentally, I ended up with speakers that were not on my shortlist. But very good ones, and I am quite pleased.
Thanks for another great video. I look forward to your video on room treatment. Totally agree with your comments on equipment reviews. BTW I've always enjoyed the sound of the ProAcs.
Another incredible informative Video, I am looking to put together a hifi sistem, after seeing your Video, I think I got a better understandig of what Kind of speakers to look for. Still got a year ahead of me, lot of time to do my reaserch. Looking forward for the next Videos. Thank You. Greetings from Austria
Thank you Constantin. Take your time to do your homework and listen before you buy or at least be able to return them if you don’t like them. How is the Austrian summer? 😉👍
Hi Just like to say what a brilliant channel you have, very immersive and perfectly pitched for all. I would like to pick your very unbiased brains / point of view on a problem of making the best of the British lounge. I have a Anthem Marx 720 paired with Pmc Twenty5 centre and Pmc Twenty5 23 floor standing left and right front, with Difinitive pro cinema rears. I would really like to add where needed to this to improve if possible and to be able to enjoy music cds etc. I would really appreciate your input if you have the time. Please keep up the great channel and I look forward to enjoying what you bring. All the best.
Hi Kevin, thank you. That is very kind of you. The most important thing is speaker positioning. I did a video on this if you want to know what to tweak. If you are happy with your system I wouldn’t change it but if you want to go to the next level, I would get your AV amp out of the chain for two channel listening. I know the Anthem products well and one of my closest friends used to be the U.K. Sales Manager for Anthem and Paradigm. Sadly the U.K. distributor passed away and the distribution company with him. I would look at a some monoblocks for the front three speakers and leave the MRX720 for surround duties. It is not about power the MRX720 has plenty but it is about refinement. Try something like the Audiolab 8300MB. What is your source as you don’t want to be relying on the MRX720 internal DAC?
A British Audiophile Hi Tarun Thanks for the reply. We have just opened up our kitchen and in doing so I have lost what was a Hifi area. As with most uk houses there’s always a thirst / battle for space and compromises to be agreed with the wife. To that end I am trying to combine my love of film and cinema with the family, with a desire for ‘good’ ‘improved’ or ‘better’ sound and vision. So I am changing slowly everything from hd to 4K and would love to now include items to use the Pmc speakers to enjoy music... but my knowledge is weak on how best to achieve this. In the past I have spent many a good hour at Hifi shops where unbiased advice and goods were equally available. But it seems now that dealers have decided what they want to sell before you open the door and my confidence in them has past. Also to change things in my house, getting it passed my wife’s disbelieving ear, it has to be a good step up and still look beautiful when it’s turned off. Please if you are interested in detailing the items to integrate and the best way to interconnect them? That would be great and I would love to hear your ideas including the fact that the Panasonic 9000 isn’t probably going to be good enough as a CD player? But if not what is the best way to use the Pmc as stereo speakers.. possibly a Cyrus one to aide switching?? And what level of DACs, player, etc?? Sorry, hope that you are not put off replying by my lack of knowledge. Many thanks. Kevin.
Hi Kevin, it is really difficult to get an AV system to sound good with two channel music unless you spend shed loads of money. Very few companies bridge both disciplines well. The only one at sensible money that comes to mind is Arcam. Ultimately you don’t want the Anthem MRX in the signal path for two channel listening. This means replacing it with a good quality AV processor and power amps costing the best part of £10k. You might get away with something like the Arcam AVR30 @ £5k. Frankly, I don’t think it is cost effective. I would use the Panasonic player as a transport and connect it to a good external DAC to it. Then I would feed the DAC output back into the analogue input of the MRX 720. Just for two channel listening. That way you are not using the digital processing of the AV receiver. The Chord Mojo DAC @ £400 would do the job nicely. It was really intended for headphone use but sounds great in a desktop setup. You will have to live with connectivity limitations and leave it powered up all the time. I would spend £50 on an iFi ipower 5V supply and keep the Mojo permanently power up. I use the Mojo and iPower in my system.
Always enjoy your videos... Few things you mentioned are not common in other source of reviews, like the listening position and volume, etc. One addition factor I rarely hear is the type of music. A system that plays well for jazz may not be good enough for symphony orchestra. I wish to see some methodical way to rate speakers or hi-fi components for that.
Raphael Hukai I’ve found that dealers will often ask “what type of music do you listen too?” So either it’s a relevant question or the dealer is just making small talk. In my case it’s not a particularly helpful question as I listen to a variety of different types of music and I want my system to play them all well.
@@patl709 Thanks Mr. Lenihan! I guess people often mention "personal taste", and type of music may related to it, but may not be an important factor as you stated. I feel some of the so-called "audiophile music" doesn't sounds pleasant to me at all, however, they did the job to demo the capability of the gears :)
A couple of points that I think should be mentioned also are speaker directivity differences and floorstanding versus bookshelf speakers. There are large differences in the radiating pattern of speakers from omni, dipole, forward radiating cones, domes, etc. and horn speakers. There are also large differences in the sound of these different types that are probably more important than anything else when choosing the sound that you like. Omnis and dipoles sound large and airy due to the high percentage of reflected versus direct sound. The forward radiating types have a greater percentage of direct versus reflected sound with horn speakers providing the greatest amount of direct versus reflected sound. This can be advantageous because there is less impact of the room acoustics to the sound above the transition frequency. As for floorstanding versus bookshelves, remember that bookshelves need to be placed on stands and this adds to the cost of the decision. Floorstanding speakers are larger and will provide more bass response than a bookshelf which probably will need augmentation of the bass via subwoofer(s) which also adds to the cost. For listening to music versus movies in a home theater, a 40Hz low frequency rolloff can be useable as the lowest frequency of a standard bass guitar is 41.2Hz.
Thanks Tarun, this was very helpful and made sooo much sense. My issue is not so much one of speaker budget but potential standing wave/room mode problems. I have a small listening room (11'x12') with minimum soft furnishings. I was initially thinking to purchase a larger, more expensive standmount speaker. However, I am now seriously considering a smaller monitor such as the ProAc Tablette 10 Signature (5" woofer) monitor (which I know you quite like) and to supplement this with a REL Acoustic (or two) subwoofer(s). I am very wary of (read: paranoid!) about potential bass problems in my small room. The jury is still out...unfortunately, where I live I cannot try out speakers so I need to get it right first time! Thanks again. P.S. Are you thinking about offering a Patreon platform/membership? I really enjoy your channel.
Thank you Marc. I am hoping to offer a Patreon soon. Bass response in small, relatively square and rooms with lots of reflective surfaces is going to be an issue. Speaker positioning is key as well as flexibility with listening position. The next step is room treatment for those who can accommodate it. Adding two correctly set up small subwoofers to whatever speakers you choose will help to even the bass response a lot. You will go from 2 bass sources to 4 bass sources. This is something that very few people understand about the role of subwoofers. It is not just about bass weight and extension. Another solution should be to use DSP in the low frequencies. Good luck and please let me know how you get on 😊👍
As you are saying, the room, speaker placement and interior plays a huge part. That is why I as a beginner am hesitant towards going to an audio dealer to listen to speakers. I think that their listening space and supporting equipment is, if not much better suited, at least way different than my listening room. If I would have to go to multiple dealers to be able to listen to a few different speakers, making out the differences would probably also be interfered by their differences in setup and space compared to the other dealers. Hence I feel intimidated to even go and do it. I am a bit more into DIY though, so I think I´ll try building my own speakers with some quality components and just hope to come out with something decent. Though, would probably be good to have a set of proffessionally made speakers to compare with...
Hi bingoberra18, excellent comments well made. I understand how intimidating it can be going to dealers. Find a friendly one if you can. Listening to the speakers in their environment will give you a good idea of how they sound. The ultimate listening tests should be done at home. Make sure you have the option to return the speakers. Any decent dealer will let you do that. I greatly admire anyone who tries the diy route. Good luck 😉👍
Hi bingoberra18. I started building speakers many years ago. Great hobby and with the internet these days you can get lots of help. Be forewarned there is a bit of a learning curve, particularly if your intention is to design your own from scratch.. This means selecting your drivers, designing your cross-overs, deciding what type of enclosure you want, designing the enclosures etc. You can always go the kit route but then that's not much different than buying pre-built speakers (except maybe you can tweak them a bit). You can also buy modelling software that is not to pricey. I have never used modelling software because I wanted my design to be as original as possible. I did invest in some speaker testing software (TrueRTA). I bought this software on the internet about 12 years ago and it still works great (paid about $99 at the time). The last speakers I built were transmission lines and they have amazing bass extension for the 5 1/4" woofers I used. It has been a very rewarding experience. I have only built 2 way speakers as it is easier to design the cross-overs and get them right. If you decide to go this way good luck. I also have an Excel spreadsheet that I made to do all the calculations for my cross-overs and cabinet design for the transmission lines. You are welcome to a copy of it if you would like.
I generally look for the tonality and how and natural it sounds. As the speakers make the biggest difference overall I would find a speaker you like then build the system around the speaker to get the most out of the speaker rather than the other way around.
Completely agree. I never really understood what people meant when they described tonality (beyond what I could just imagine). It was only from investing time to just listen to a broad range of speakers did I fully grasp the range of tonal variance. I often found that spending time at an audio dealer on their slow hours and slow days helps. I learned a lot because they were bored and had time to talk 🙂.
If you can find speakers coupled with decent amplification that has depth and stage to it at low levels then your on track I think. I opted for floor standers (Vienna Acoustics) for my circumstances. There are occasions when you might drive speakers to higher levels and annoy the neighbours after a few glasses of red though Tarun.
We have many types of speaker out there and if I were spending large amounts I would want to audition them in my music room as no other room can duplicate your rooms quirks and if you get it wrong then you have thrown good money away......I don't have an answer for it other than design your own as did I and the stay put and don't flit. Thank you for a laid back chat on speakers. Mick
Sound advice, Tarun, if you'll excuse the pun! For anyone who's new to this and feeling a bit overwhelmed by the science, can I suggest as an extra, empirical stage buying a temporary pair of speakers? Pick up a well-regarded budget speaker second-hand, and experiment. Now it's time to start thinking about what Tarun says. Try different placements so that you learn by doing, adjust the room whereever it's practical, and you'll discover the kind of sound signature that you prefer. When you've got the best you can out of it, think about the speaker's shortcomings and strengths. You're ready to start shopping in earnest, looking for a speaker that shares those strengths but addresses the weaknesses!
Diffraction, refraction, reflexion, not identical, and not equivalent in terms of what is heard, and what might best be done about them. Room modes are functions of room shape and size (L,W, and H), not just one or two of those factors. Regardless, you are correct in sum; it's about speaker, speaker, speaker...
Hello Tarun, great in-depth commentary as always. I wanted to run you through an observation that I made while listening to my bookshelves and know your point of view from science and listening perspective. So these speakers that I have may not be 2000 Euro ones that you have been reviewing :) but they do decent job for the price point and the space I can afford. These are Polk RTI A3 and have a unique sound diffuser arrangment at back probably to dampen the sound coming from back before it reaches back wall and hence reducing the interference of reflected sound. I simply do not have the luxury of maintaining wall distance of 3 feet or alike behind my speakers. Somehow I did not observe much resonance even after keeping my speakers few inches from behind wall. Seek your point of view on the same, would be great if you can see the design and let me know if it makes sense, as these one way dampeners can allow flexible placement of speakers without too much loss of quality. Best Regards, Vikrant
Hi Vikrant, there are some great affordable speakers around but I am not familiar with this one. Had a quick look and it is an interesting design. It has a front and rear port working together in what Polk describe as their Resonance Control Technology. According to Polk the two ports work together to act like one long flared port. This reduces the tubulance and chuffing noise (a form of distortion). Also, it is claimed by tuning the second (rear) port to the same frequency as the internal cabinet resonance, these resonances are reduced. Someone would have to do a proper scientific investigation to verify their claims but it is an intriguing design. Thank you for watching 😉👍
Hi Tarun. I've heard that it can be beneficial to source your amp first based on what type of sound your looking for, then match your speakers to that sound. I have also heard people say what you have said. I would have thought a front ported speaker would have been ok to put closer to a wall but I have learned something new today. Good wee video yet again.
Hi Steve, I would disagree with the amp first approach. It will limit your speaker choice and that is the most critical aspect to get right. Yeh, it is a common misconception that the position of the port determines how close a speaker can be placed to a wall. There is some truth to it but it is a lot more complex than that. Baffle step, bass response, edge diffraction and a lot of other factors come into effect. Good to hear from you 😉
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Now I've learned two things and thanks for the reply. What about speakers like PCM? They have a transmission design I believe. Would they be ok closer to the wall say 30cm, as I have limited space due to one chair in the room.
Hi Steve, I will find out for sure when I get a pair in to review but looking at them I would say no. There are some common traits you find in speakers that work well close to walls. Their bass rolls of relatively early as the designer compensates for the bass boost due to the speakers being close to walls. They tend to be higher sensitivity, why not if you are reducing bass response as a designer you may as well take the boost in sensitivity as you get this for free. They tend to be shallow in depth but have a wider front baffle. This lowers the frequency at which the speaker becomes omnidirectional. Essentially more of the midrange is projected forward of the front baffle rather wrapping around a narrow front baffle. This helps with timing issues when a speaker is close to a wall. They tend to be a sealed box because sealed enclosures naturally roll of bass earlier and have better timing than the equivalent ported design. Time smearing due to reflections from nearby walls and boomy bass are the two main problems to try to resolve when designing a speaker to work close to a wall. Sealed boxes just naturally lend themselves to this scenario. This may be a good topic to discuss in it’s own video. How to design a speaker to work close to walls. Then I could also talk about DSP and speakers with a cardioid response.
@@abritishaudiophile7314 I've never had a reviewer write such an in depth response as you Tarun so thanks for that. The reason that I brought up PMC is because a friend of mine is a PMC dealer and he has a pair of Twenty5 26 for sale for £2995 which is a steal. I've never really liked the way PMC looked but I'm more interested in their sound. I might take a trip down to see what they sound like with an Exposure amp as he also stocks them, but judging by what you have said they may not be suitable. Thanks again Tarun for your advice.
Hi Tarun great video again. I have had to go with KEF LS50’s at the moment due to availability of product at the moment in SL. They seemed to pair nicely with Audiolab 8300A. If I was to want Wharfedale Lintons was probably a 6 month wait. I have deposited and not 100% committed and having buyers remorse already. Hopefully it is a worthwhile system in the room I have. Cheers
Good to hear from you buddy. The Kef LS50 and Audiolab 8300A should make a very nice system. Next step add a decent subwoofer or better still two smaller ones. Sorry getting you to spend more money but they will give you a full, range sound and better bass management in your room. 😉👍
A British Audiophile will do but have to get these past the wife without noticing. I assume that link you sent for subs is the way to go. Might get your advice when I make the decision cheers
Gosh, I wish the HIFI sales people here would give me the advice you just shared on this video. I am trying to do my homework and I am frustrated. Truly, yes the shopping of HIFI gear has changed since the last I shopped some twenty years ago. I am doing my homework but its confusing, but if I don't do it who will? I welcome any advice concerning "Better off picking a speaker that will work well in my room in the first place". I already picked my speaker for neutral (slightly warm if that) and high efficiency: Klipsch Forte III. It's just what I prefer, it communicated to me, not because it is analytical but fun. I have another room for a system and I'll go for a more analytical type speaker for there, but not now. My room is 17ft W. x 26ft L. x 6.10 ft drop ceiling. It is carpeted, panel walls, sofa and loveseat, so its dampened. But the Forte's are a wide disbursement speaker and I want them so much could I use an extreme toe in (left speaker facing my right shoulder, right speaker to my left shoulder)? Providing of course that I get good imaging or center imaging at this extreme toe in. They may be either 7 to 9 ft apart and about 2 to 3 ft from side walls, and I guess between a few inches to 3 ft from rear wall (it is a rear radiator speaker). Ideas? If I have to consider a different high efficiency speaker and with less wide disbursement so be it, I hope not, but I have to do this correct. Cheers.
Hi MARK, pretty much every speaker is omni directional at low frequencies. Many manufacturers use a waveguide to narrow the dispersion of the tweeter to achieve a better match with the mid or mid/woofer at the cross over point. Let’s consider a simple 2 way box speaker. If the speaker is well designed, the crossover will be below the mid/woofer’s KA2 point (driver’s circumference/wavelength). This is where the mid/woofer becomes noticeably directional. By narrowing the dispersion of the tweeter at the crossover point you can achieve better driver integration and a smoother off axis response. The trade off is spaciousness that you typically get from wide dispersion speakers. Also, wide dispersion speakers typically have better imaging capabilities due to the stronger side reflection, counter intuitive but true ! Horn tweeters and those with deep waveguides are what I would generally refer to as narrow dispersion speakers. They produce a less strong side reflection than a wide dispersion speaker. This makes them more flexible in terms of non ideal room setups and speaker positioning. I am not sure that the Forte III is wide dispersion. I couldn’t say for sure without checking out the design. I wouldn’t focus too much on it though, more important to get a speaker with a tonal balance you like and has enough dynamic output for what is a fairly large room in your case. I hope this helps 😊👍
Thanks for the great videos. Always informative, and I wait eagerly for the next one in the hifi tips series. I think an issue in selecting speakers is not being able to try them out in your own space. There will always be a dependency on online reviews, or the dealers themselves. And very few of them are without bias. I've been struggling to decide on a pair of speakers myself, and having been entranced by the harbeth brand a few years ago, have narrowed it down to 2 among their line. The monitor 30s or the Super HL5 . I'm hoping you would be able to provide some expert advise given the room size is 15' X 17' . Do I sacrifice some of the bass and get the smaller speakers given that room treatment would be fairly minimal and I'm going to depend on furniture for diffraction. Supplemented by a sub . Or should I just get the larger speaker instead ? I'ts not an insignificant amount of money and I'm probably going to get just one shot at getting it right. 😅
Hi argruid, you have a reasonable sized room so neither are likely to overload your room with bass if placed far enough away from walls. As you have a subwoofer you can get away with the smaller speaker and still get full range sound. The determining factor should be which speaker you prefer the sound of and how well it works with your amplifier, assuming you are not changing it. You can always send Alan Shaw at Harbeth an email with details of your system, your room and preferred sound characteristics and see what he advises. They kind of money you are spending you need to listen to both. Thank you for watching 😉
The one thing a person can do is try a stereo dealer that has a room set up similar to what your audio room is. It doesn't have to be exact but if it has rugs and objects that fill in then you can get a rough idea how they'll sound in your home. Generally though if you have a hard room with no rugs or much furniture or objects you may want to stay away from, for example, a horn loaded design. Ask the dealer if you could listen to them at home for 1 day or if you have the option to return them if not satisfied. Most dealers should accommodate that. If not then your decision becomes more critical and you may want to lean on a more conservative design that won't bleed your ears or your pockets. Good review.
I just discovered your channel. Really enjoying your content. Thank you. I have a question. I have a Hegel 160 amp which I have been using with a pair of Neat Mystique II floorstanders but I've moved and I'm wondering if I can do better for the space I'm now in. I have the hifi in a fairly spacious L - shaped room with lots of carpet and upholstery. The trouble is I'm really limited in where I can position speakers and I'm stuck with putting them near ( about 20" from ) a corner and about 6 inches from the wall. I'm wondering if a pair of standmounters would be good but not sure. I listen mainly in headphones these days so I don't want to spend a fortune. Ideally I'd like to pick something up around the £750 mark and I'd be happy to buy used. I listen to classical and Jazz and I like a warm, relaxed, non-fatiguing sound and I wondered about the AE300s though I'm not sure they would not really match the Hegel very well. I'm open to ideas. Do you have any suggestions, please?
Hi Wooster, thank you for watching. There are so many considerations that it is difficult to predict. My advice is to try a stand-mount speaker and see. If you are really struggling we can get into the ribs of it on my Patreon Benfactor or Consultancy tier 😊👍
Hi great information thanx. i have bought used JBL TLX 700 Tower and since than i am trying to find information about these speakers so that i can do home work as you suggested for determining amp . ( the only info i founs is as follows; ( kindly suggest what and where i shuld look for )... Type: 3 way, 3 driver loudspeaker system Frequency Response: 35Hz to 25kHz Recommended Amplifier: 10 to 150W Crossover Frequency: 600, 3000Hz Impedance: 8Ω Sensitivity: 90dB Bass: 1 x 210mm cone Midrange: 1 x 100mm cone Tweeter: 1 x 25mm dome Finish: black Dimensions: 855 x 255 x 291mm Weight: 16kg Year: 2000
You need to choose an amplifier that can drive those speakers. The minimum and max impedance will determine how easy they are to drive. I suspect they are fairly easy to drive so you should be good with most amplifiers. Now you need to narrow the search to 3 amps to audition. How do you do that? Find out what other people use that have a natural synergy. Reviews and forums are a good place to start. Bare in mind this is just other people’s ideas of what works and may not suit your tastes. You need to be clear about what sound characteristic you want. If you think the speakers lack warmth, choose an amplifier that has a warmer sound. If you think the bass is a bit loose, choose an amplifier that has tight and fast bass. I am sure you get the idea. In the end make sure you listen to 3 amps before you choose one. 👍
I have an upcoming video series on this, but let me try to provide an abbreviated version: First, my preference is for a three way design since this allows for the use of a large bass driver that does not also have to cover the mid frequencies up to the tweeter range (better bass, limited doppler distortion). Second, I prefer just one driver per range (one tweeter, one mid driver and one bass driver per channel) so as to get the most quality from each driver and to avoid wave interference patterns produced by multiple mid drivers. Third, I prefer a dome tweeter to get the most quality for the money, although many ribbon tweeter speakers no doubt sound excellent, and I might choose this if I were not building my own. Fourth, I prefer a small mid driver of 5 1/4 inch diameter to attain flat frequency response into the tweeter range, this as a compromise between a large and a smaller mid driver. Finally, I prefer large bass drivers of either 10 inch or 12 inch diameter, in a large box with a large vented alignment, which I have to build myself. So if I were to buy factory made speakers, I would look for a pair of satellite speakers with driver sizes noted above, and set them on stands placed into the room (they can always be moved out of the way when guests visit). I would also audition alternate sub woofers, esp those using passive radiators that allow for vented like performance in a moderate sized box.
Hi Tarun... Yes, interesting stuff... The listening room I'm designing, is going to have adjustable wall treatments built in! This is quite complex to explain, but hopefully will become clear with periodic photographs... Frank... PS, as regards to the speaker design I'm also working on, apart from the open baffle/vented box design which sounds a contradiction in terms, I'm looking into 3 way crossovers currently... This in itself isn't that easy... lol
Hello! Thanks for your great content and sharing your knowledge! I am getting into the hobby of audio now and trying to figure out what is the best sort of speaker to buy. Bookshelf or floorstanding? I am totally fascinated by a great and detailed stereo image, thats what i definetly want. When i tested some different speakers i could figure out that it is much easier to get a nice stereo image with bookshelf speakers. Floorstand speakers need much more space from the walls to generate a stereo image and a virtual center. Can you explain the physics behind this phenomen? I like the much more dynamic sound of floorstaning speakers, but my space in the listening room is limited. The speakers have to be near the walls, maximum 30cm distance. Or is there a special sort of speaker construction that avoids this problem? Thanks a lot!
Hi Stephan, a speakers ability to image well is down to a number of variables, phase anomalies in the crossover, the speed and lack of distortion in the drivers. However, the reason why bookshelf speakers generally image better than their floorstanding stablemates is due to the smaller front baffle. All front baffles diffract sound which causes timing errors. Floorstander’s by their nature have a larger front baffle and more edge diffraction issues. This is why bookshelf speakers generally image better. You want to choose a speaker that has been designed to work well close to walls. It is likely to be a sealed box with a wider front baffle and shallower in depth. Something like the Proac Tablette 10s. The bass response rolls off earlier than other Proac designs as the close to wall location results in bass reinforcement. The wider front baffle results in the baffle step loss occurring at a lower frequency. It is a sealed box because there frequency response is naturally more suited to being placed closer to walls compared to a vented enclosure. Thank you for watching and your kind words of support 😉👍
A British Audiophile I found the UK located company Fyne Audio that is relatively new to the speaker market. I could hear the F500 bookshelf monitors at my dealer, the Floorstand F501 are at their way to my dealer, so i can make a test hearing between them. I was very impressed by the F500. The sound was very airy and the stereo image was outstanding! Did you ever heard the Fynes too? Is there a special thing with their point source driver and the down firing bass port that support my aim for this great stereo imaging? Greeting and thanks!
I agree with the caution on room treatment. There are so many reviewers today who overemphasise on this aspect but the reality is (in my opinion) that for many people including my self, the room is what it is and offers little scope for treatment (space, aesthetics, cost) I guess I am not enough of an audiophile to allow the presence of my sound system to be intrusive in my home beyond a certain point. So I agree, you should match your speakers to your room which by the way is not easy at all to asses. What you hear also a lot is that sound is fake anyway and you are never going to recreate a concert hall in your living room so you may as well go with the sound signature of particular speaker manufacturers you know you like. This has served me well over the years. Finally, it seems that modern reviewers and audiophiles are completely adverse of using tone control. Personally I don't agree. I am happy to crank up and down my tone control according to my mood, the volume I play at and to compensate for what I perceive a deficiency in a speaker. Typically in my situation I have the attenuator at -35dB, base control to plus 3 dB and the treble flat. For late evening listening, attenuator to -50 dB and lower and I up the base to 6 dB and add loudness (unfortunately I live in an apartment and I wish to stay on speaking terms with my neighbours).
Very informative video! I've been quietly looking around for speakers, one thing I've noticed is that a lot of reviewers generally tend to have bookshelf speakers. I myself have always owned floorstanders, such as the B&W CM7 I have now. While I like it for it's lively midrange, I feel the bass is lacking a bit of punch, even for it's size. Since my room isn't all that big, let's say up to 20m2, would you rather recommend a bookshelf speaker?
I wouldn’t suggest you switch to a bookshelf. There are pros and cons to both. The bass problem may be your speaker positioning or the amplifier you are using to drive it. Try and experiment with both 😊👍
Hi. These vids have really helped I've been flitting around with speakers choices. The re-issued ls3 5a's from falcon seem interesting, I like that they're British, they're nice and small (I've got a small room) and the midrange detail is good, I'd get a separate little sub with them. They're probably a bit over priced for what they are but I don't mind that too much. What that might mean though is that the usual guidelines around spending ratios might not apply. Do you think I could get away with a slightly less expensive amp (maybe around £300 or so, eg: the Yamaha as501) or do you think those speakers would perform significantly better with a higher end amp? I'm going with the chord mojo DAC. Great vids man, if you don't get around to answering, no problem (if you do, I like the idea of supporting British businesses at moment, I'm even considering a sugden, if I can justify the spend so any suggestions you might have from that company would be interested). Thanks man.
Hi William, the Falcon LS3/5As do have a warmth and richness in the midrange that few speakers can match. As you mentioned, you do pay a premium for them though. I would not partner them with an inexpensive amp. The lack of refinement will rob you of the strengths of that speaker. You need something like a Naim, Exposure or Hegel to get the speakers to retain their midrange charm. An alternative speaker with similar qualities that will work great in a small room is the ProAc Tablette Signatures. And they are cheaper which means could could spend more on the amp. Thank you for watching and your support 😊👍
@@abritishaudiophile7314 yes, I think I heard you mention the ProAc Tablette Signatures in this video and when you did I thought they might be a good alternative to the ls3 5a's. Thanks.
Thanks again! Another great smorgasbord of information, I took notes( I'm not to proud to say, I got to Google some of the thing's you presented on the table and don't stop! I need to know the right terminology to call convey what I need when the time comes). I have a pair of KEF's 100's, I'm in the process of changing the crossovers( I know, they 0didn't put the best components in them, they're a manufacturer, to make their price point, they can only do so much) so, I'm following you're lead,and I'm saving and researching for my next pair of speakers, then the amplifier etc.etc. Once again keep these meals coming, your American brother, have a great day.
Hi Willie, great to hear from you as always. Looks like you are on your way to hifi bliss. The older I get, the easier I can admit what I don’t understand. I don’t know if that is wisdom or just being more comfortable with myself. What I do know is that I am a lot more open to learning new things and people are much more willing to help me. I wish I knew that 20 years ago. I guess what I am really saying is that I admire your attitude, honesty and willingness to learn. Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment Willie 😉👍
@@abritishaudiophile7314 thanks! As my Mom use to say, you're in bad shape when you can't or won't learn anything or worst of all, know it all( can't tell em' nothing! Lol), if it's alright I'd like to ask( if I missed, you're opinion on r2r dac's are there different ladder or forms) with dac's my funds are limited so to future prove my system( and I'm sure I'll get laughed at for that statement, but, my folks response as mine is " The only stupid question is the one you don't ask!) my dac money will be no more than 500 to 600 American dollars ( and I'm sure that will be used, that's why my thirst for knowledge, from people that know) You're video on the Mojo, schooled me, that's not a r2r dac, so, that's my delima old school r2r the new kid( whatever the format) of the Mojo and the likes, a point in the right direction or I'll be waiting daily on your food for thoughts on the matter, thanks for responding to my inputs and thoughts, it's all motivation for me, alright NUFF SAID! Your American brother take care.
Hi Willie, I am hoping to get the Denafrips Aries II R2R DAC in for review soon. So watch out for that review. I wouldn’t get too hung up on topology. There is a lot more to how a DAC performs than the chip inside and its basic topology. Input stage, power supply and output stage all play their part to the overall sound quality. My advice is to focus on the type of sound characteristics you want be it R2R, Sabre, FPGA or something else. I do think that Chord DAC set the benchmark in terms of sound quality at the moment but this opinion may change as I review more DACs.
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Thanks, for the heads up! My plan is to do as much future proofing as possible. So, with a little more help Currawong and research( I must admit, going over and over your videos I'm starting to understand some of the terms, I really appreciate you're taking the time to explain in a way that makes my learning process easier) I'm really looking forward to your thoughts on r2r dac's, because( from my understanding) they are said to be more "warm" enjoyable, musical,but, doesn't measure as well as the other dac's, from me to you, sometimes I like to have a fun listen and just as often, I'm disecting every little thing in the arrangements. So my brother, I'm awaiting your words of wisdom, take care of yourself and of course your family, have a great day, you're American brother.
Are the speakers fantech sonar GS202 good? I found them on a website and i really like the fact that they have 2 colors to choose which are black or pink. I really liked the pink ones. The are also small and i would easily fit thwm on my desk which i really like. But i dont know if the sound is good and i value the sound more than the looks.
This is such a great channel. Could you discuss the tools you recommend for vinyl playback? For example things like stylus cleaners, record cleaners, etc.
Thank you utub. I am probably the wrong guy to ask about this one, having ditched my vinyl 20 years ago. I know 😪😪😪 You may want to check out this video by Paul Rigby ruclips.net/video/duzVUTRLET8/видео.html
img.ukaudiomart.com/uploads/large/944291-84655d1e-bosendorferbrodmann-vc2-speakers-in-fantastic-burl-birch.jpg Different for sure, there is stuff out there worth a read if you get bored for a few minutes...
Hi Tarun. Just stopping halfway through binge-watching your excellent videos to ask a hopefully general question: What to do/buy, when you're forced to place your speakers on a bookshelf? Like many of us, I'm forced to place my (future) speakers on a bookshelf, but how best to ameliorate the negative effects that this position usually has on the sound? I suppose that a sealed box is better that a back-ported one, and as my bookshelf is an actual 4x2 meter bookshelf full of books (my living-room end-wall), I can freely position the height and spacing of the speakers, and Iam inclined to align the front of the speaker with the books, but questions remain :) Is a sealed box inherently better than a front-ported one? Is room-correction a subsequent necessity? Is an active speaker better suited to this position than a passive? If possible, do you have any specific speaker- or system-suggestions for me :) The living-room dimensions are 4x6 meters and have some bright spots, but rugs and bookshelves as well. I divide my listening equally between chamber-music, jazz and 1970s rock, almost always played at medium level. My speaker-budget is around £1200 and I guess I'm leaning towards a warm sound, rather than an analytical one. I guess the ProAc Tablette, that you mention, is a good candidate, but maybe there are others. Sorry about the flood of questions. Hope you have time to answer some of them :) Again, thank you for the time and effort you put into these excellent and enjoyable videos.
Hi earkivaren, thank you for the question. I will break this down in sections as there is a bit to cover: PORTED SPEAKERS: At the frequencies associated with a port, bass is omni-directional. The location of the port makes little difference to whether a speaker will work close to a wall or not. The reason the port is placed at the rear in many cases is that at high volumes some designs are prone to make a “chuffing” sound which can be audible. Placing it at the rear makes this less noticeable. All said a rear ported speaker does throw out a little more energy backward than forwards so I cant think of a rear ported speaker that was designed to work against a wall. SEALED ENCLOSURES: A sealed box means that the bass will roll of earlier and at a 12dB per octave slope as opposed to a ported design which will have greater bass extension but will then roll off at a faster rate of 24dB/octave. Not all sealed boxes will work well close to a wall. For example, the ATC SCM 7s and 19s I recently tested. Sealed boxes typically have a faster bass response than a ported speaker as the back energy from the woofer is used as a spring to move the woofer back and forth more quickly. This is a massive oversimplification but will do for what we need to understand here. SPEAKERS DESIGNED TO WORK CLOSE TO A WALL: The closer you place a speaker to a wall the more bass boost you will get. It will also tend to sound less well defined in the bass. This is why speakers designed to work close to walls tend to be sealed boxes. You are just working with the natural characteristics of that type of enclosure. Most speakers that are designed to work close to a wall will have limited bass extension and output because the placement will naturally extend both these characteristics. BAFFLE STEP LOSS: High frequencies are directional (1/2 space) and low frequencies are omni-directional (full space). At some point the is a transition between the two. At the frequency point when a speaker transitions from 1/2 space to full space there is a typical 6dB loss in output. This is normally compensated for in the crossover design but the transitional frequency is determined by the size of the front baffle. To lower this transitional point most speakers that are designed to work close to a wall will have a greater width and shallower depth that you would ordinarily expect. The ProAc Tablettes are a perfect example. My shortlist for speakers designed for close to wall placement would be the ProAc Tablettes, the Harbeth P3ESR and the Falcon LS3/5A. I hope this helps. Good luck 😉👍
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Hi Tarun. Thank you very much for the clear and thorough explanations. So I guess sealed boxes with their tendency to faster bass response is better armed against the blurring of the bass that the close-wall position necessarily entails. In the spirit of almost Christmas, allow me one more question: Does placing rows of books up against the side-panels of the speaker further hinder the bass boosting? And is that in general a good idea for bookshelf-positioned speakers, or does that have other detrimental side-effects? Thank you again, and for your suggested speakers, which I will dive into! I also have the cast iron JERN-speakers from my neighborhood on my list.
@@earkivaren Ideally you don’t want to place anything between or adjacent to the speakers. I am just going to amend my advice here on thought. If you are placing books between the speakers or next to them. I would run them the whole length between the speakers with no gaps and running flush with the speakers. Effectively extending the front baffle into a pseudo infinite baffle arrangement. That will minimise time smearing and could work quite well. The books will also provide some absorption of low frequencies but this may be hard to predict. Give it a go and let me know how you get on. 😊
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Thank you Tarun! I read your earlier edition of the comment, and was just about to describe how I wanted to use the books to try to extend the front baffle. I'll report back on the results when I get around to selecting some speakers. Keep up the excellent work!
I'm looking at making my own speakers from a kit supplied by Wilmslow Audio. They appear to use well regarded high quantity drivers and their designs seem to be copies of classic designs with high quality crossover components.. have a background in cabinet making .. my question is, are these kits a good value proposition ... and assuming I can listen to a samlpe before
Thank you for the tips. Your first one though left me scratching my head. You basically left me with more questions than answers, if I'm honest. How am I supposed to figure out what the Transitional Frequency of my room is? How do I actually go about doing that? And then how can I tell if a particular set of speakers is suitable for the Transitional Frequency of my room? I have many more, but If you can address these, then I might be able to figure out the rest on my own. Thank you in advance.
Hi Khalid, you can always measure it but it is not a specific frequency as much as a region where the peaks and dips even out somewhere around 250Hz. I wouldn’t be too concerned about it. The more important point to understand was that overloading a small room with bass will make the peaks and dips more noticeable. Best to exercise and bit of judgement when selecting the size of speaker and its bass response to work well in your room. Thank you for watching and commenting 😉
One thing people need to understand is impedance. Many people have no idea what this is, and what it means for the type of amp you need. For example, I have seen people try to dive a pair of Toten Hawks with an AVR. That is just flat out nuts, not to mention a waste of money. Matching the amp to whatever speaker you choose is vital.
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Tarun, don't know if you are a fan or not but, Creek just introduced a new integrated that sells for almost $8,000 US. Wow! I still have a creek Destiny! Check it out!
Sorry, back on now. They had been disabled by RUclips because I had selected suitable for kids when using their new uploading interface. Thank you for letting me know 😉👍
Tarun, I was wondering if you could comment on in-wall speakers vs floorstanding. I am about to move into a new apartment and I potentially have a choice of getting KEF in-wall Reference or Floorstanding R11s. The references series are about 25% cheaper if you get in-walls vs equivalent floorstanders. The salesperson says there are no real drawbacks in terms of sound quality and he even says due to the way things are constructed, it won't cause the wall to rattle. Would love to get your opinion on this
Hi Richard, I would stay clear of the in wall speakers unless you have no choice due to space. I have never heard any in wall set up that produced a convincing three dimensional sound stage with decent imaging. I would go with the R11s all day long. 😊
Interesting perspective and sound logic but I’m bent on finding speakers to suit low output valve amp ideally 90dB sensitivity +. Been looking at pre 70’s second hand and pimping up the crossover
Off topic...can you tell me how (or what) you use to caption your videos? I have to do some for work and yours always come out so clear and clean-thanks
Sound advice (excuse the pun) again tarun, I long for the day I can have my own listening room 😫 for now I’ve resorted to 🎧 but may soon be the owner of magnepan LRS. You’re absolutely right about getting the right speakers for your room it’s hard enough getting the missus to accept the sphagetti junction of wires & box count let alone a big pair of speakers but sound deadening panels 😱 more likely a divorce or banished to the shed 🤪
They will certainly reduce the bass energy but change the tonal balance of the speaker. It is a bit like putting a sticky plaster on a gunshot wound. If you need to do it then there is a more fundamental problem that need to be addressed.
Hi Tarun, I am in a dilemma for my speaker. Need your help in this. I prefer neutral sound and these are the three speakers that I am kind of zeroing down. What will be your recommendation? I know it is hard and may be subjective but if you were to pick up one which one will you go for. 1. Cambridge Audio SX60 2. Elac Debut 6.2 3. Q Acoustics 3020 (not 3020i). My Set up is Rotel A10 + Topping E30 DAC + Allo Digi One Signature + Raspberry Pi + Volumio. Cheers, Tiken M
Hi Tiken, all good speakers for the money. Ideally you should audition all three as it is really a matter of personal taste. However, the Rotel can be a little on the bright side so I would personally go with the Elac Debut 6.2 to balance them out.
Hi Tarun, Thank you very much for your inputs. Really appreciate. I will keep you posted on how it goes. Thanks for taking the time to listen and provide your valuable insights. Cheers, Tiken M
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Hi Tarun, I got my ELAC Speaker today and I have set up my system. My set up is Raspberry Pi 3B+ + Allo DigiOne Signature + Topping E30 + Topping D50 Linear Power Supply + ELAC Debut 6.2 + Rotel A10. My test audio sample is ruclips.net/video/5FlJYPBTyqU/видео.html and I need to hear the attack of the snare drum (not so much of bass and not so sharp also but with a punch with the right level) in the beginning song. Oh! my. It was a pleasure hearing the details. Thank you very much for all the inputs. It will be a while before i upgrade my system now. In the meantime I will be watching your space and reviews from my next upgrades. Thanks and keep doing the good work. Cheers!
For me it's a big problem to find warm sounding bookshelves in 250 - 350 euros range. All of them that I've heard ( Dali, Q Accoustics, etc) a too bright for my taste with too much sibilant especially on vocals. Could you recommend a pair of warm sounding bookshelves for a 16sq/m room ? Maybe from the second hand market?
I like to buy speakers made by a dedicated speaker manufacturer. So I currently own large Tannoy floorstanders. They are in a small room with an additional Tannoy 300W sub. I sit about 6ft away from them. No bloom or reflection due to carpets, big soft sofas, small corner bass trap and acoustic panels on walls. I would never contemplate anything other than big floorstanders for my tastes. Just build your room around them...
Cool! I think many Tannoys tend to be high efficiency designs which means you can go for a larger speaker in a smaller room due to the lower bass output. Thank you for watching and sharing 😉
What would your advice be for someone with a small room (with solid brick walls) who listens to music where the bass extension and clarity is more important than any other aspects of the sound? Is it possible or do I need to move house?
Tricky but not impossible Dan. Requires careful choice of speaker, listening position and speaker positioning. DSP and room treatment will help. Two small subs is the way to go. Going from two bass sources to four will help even the bass out in a small room and will give you more scope for adjustment. Good luck 🤞
Tarun, is there any universal designation for speaker that are designed to be placed closer to the wall? Cause these days kids working in hi-fi stores are nothing but a spec readers. Thank you
Not a universal designation but some speakers as designed to work in close to wall applications. It is all about tuning the bass response. Examples, ProAc Tablettes, Neat Iota Alpha, Larson speakers 😉
As Tarren (Hope that's spelt correctly) says 200-300hz is where problems start.. The 'WOW' boomy bass resonance frequency occurs at these levels i found a sub positioned correctly nullifies that problem.
It as been spelt it as I sounds cp070476 😊. It is spelt Tarun. Subwoofers can be considered active bass management. One good, two even better. I can only accolade one downstairs. The more bass producing devices you have in a room set up correctly, the more even you can get the bass in the room.
That was a well thought out explanation, better than any I’ve ever heard. I’m 58 and have been an audiophile on and off for 40 yrs. You are a great asset to this quest for good sound.
Thank you Damian. That is extremely kind of of you to say 😉👍
Agreed.
This is a good example of why I enjoy your videos. I always learn even if I think I already know all about it.
Thank you E.Kent.D 😉👍
What he/she said. I’d make my own comment but since this comment is top of the list at time of writing, I feel like I’d look silly paraphrasing it...
Great to see a British channel thriving in this space. I enjoy every episode. 👍
Thank you Big Blue 😉👍
This would have to be one of the top two RUclips articles on hifi topics I have read in recent years. The other articles is his talk about speaker placement. Well done Tanun
Thank you my friend 😊👍👍
Nothing more to add. Everyone has already said how helpful and clear your advice is and it makes sense to me based on my experience based on the 5 sets of speakers I've owned since 1979.
Thank you buddy 👍👍👍
My personal recommendation is to get your expectations aligned with the amount of effort and money you are willing to invest. The first question would be, where do you want to place your system and in what manner will you use it. Will you be doing critical listening in a dedicated room, or will you play some music in the background in your living room as you do other stuff? Are you all about the quality or ease of use? Lastly, how "perfectionist" are you, are you a "buy and forget" person? If you are reading this, then you are probably not... answering this question might reevaluate your answer to the first one. The answers will of course will change over time as well as your needs, but it is important to answer them first so you won't be disappointed from your first gear.
Like others, I believe that room and placements are a huge factor, if not the most important one (by far). So the room and placement will probably be the result of the questions I've mentioned above. Essentially, if you are not willing to place your system in a relatively symmetric room, with some distance from wall boundaries, aiming for equilateral triangle, then there will be a relatively low budget where you money will just goto waste.
Lastly, the room size does matter. I think bookshelves are great value, but they just won't cut it when it comes to big rooms. They will sound small compared to bigger cabinets, and small sound is really no fun, no matter what the volume is. Specs are important but a 40 litter floor stander will usually sound bigger than a 20 litter bookshelf who claims to go lower (for the same price).
Adding a subwoofer is always great. But if you are a beginner, do yourself a favour and select a floor-standing speaker for moderate to big rooms. It will take care of the synergy between the lows and the rest of the frequencies much easier than matching a sub to a bookshelf, as the crossover between them is usually more audible the higher the crossover is (and why not, they were not designed together).
On the same topic, the driver size also matter. A big woofer driver, or 2 small ones, will pressurise your room better than one small one. If we do want to get a bit more nerdy, I would also add that sensitivity of the speaker does matter, but what more important is the resistance rating and its spread across the spectrum.
If you buy a speaker with a 3 ohm dip, you better get an amplifier that is capable of that. That amplifier might affect your budgeting decisions. I believe this channel covers this topic perfectly in another video.
Lastly #2, take it easy, it won't sound like a live concert or like the way you know music back when you were 14. Enjoy what your system CAN do, as it is a world of compromises.
Hi Astro Boy, I pretty much agree with every word of that. This is great advice for people new to the hobby and seasoned audiophiles. Thank you for sharing. 😉👍
I remember watching Astro Boy on tv as a kid. Sounds like you know your stuff. Designing and building speaker systems that sell for top dollar is easy. R&D loves big budgets. Mid and lower cost systems are more of a design challenge. Unfortunately, that's where most of us are forced to shop. Loudspeakers and compromise go hand in hand. Choose wisely young Skywalker.
@@martyjewell5683 That's a piece of history right there! I totally agree, speakers are besically compromised by its nature. For me, the good think (or bad) is that the most important factor by far is placement room treatment. I got crazy imaging from budget systems that could beat my main one. Once I experienced good imaging, I started doubting my decisions purchasing that expensive (for me) gear.
Great video Tarun, I always look forward to your posts. It’s all been trial and error for me over the last 30 years and I’ve made a few mistakes along the way as no doubt we all have. You’re doing those new to the community a great service and most likely saving them a few quid! 👍🏼
Thank you Andy for your kind words of encouragement. It is very much appreciated 😉👍
I learned speaker placement from experimenting with it. It isn’t the same with any two pairs of speakers I have heard. It is more about patience in placement and using those tools we already have, your ears and your brain. Really good video Tarun. I am anxiously waiting for the next one.😊👍🏻
Thank you Mark. Good to hear from you 😉
Most modern speaker from reputable manufacturers are very good , your room and how you place them makes the difference. You have it spot on 🙂
Thank you Jonathan 😊👍
Another excellent vid! All great points. Thanks, Tarun! 🎶👍🔊✌️
I auditioned close to 20 pairs of speakers ranging in price from $1K up to aprox $15 - $20K before hearing a pair of Tekton speakers at my buddy’s place, and I immediately knew it was the sound I’d been looking for regardless of price. Choosing the right speaker can be quite a daunting task.
Thank you Nick. It is great when you find something that suits you just right. Like a well tailored suit or your favourite brand of shoes.😉👍
A lucid and logical explanation on speaker choice. My first (hifi) speaker purchase in 1974 were the KLH model 31. I upgraded in 1978 to Ohm Acoustics model L and still use these amazing systems today, over forty years later. Sound in my 1,745 cu/ft living room is clean, clear with solid bass to near 40Hz. Positioned so the stereo image is "excellent- to the point where the sound seems almost totally detached from the speakers". Capable of playing quite loud and filling a larger room with satisfactory sound. Other speaker systems I own?? Jensen JP-1200, EPI-100 and EPI-180, Ohm Acoustics model H, Synergistics S12B and Boston Acoustics A-40. No TOWER speakers for me. A word to the wise..... Don't overlook vintage models, they can be very satisfying indeed.
Thank you Marty. I agree there a lots of great vintage speakers out there. Thank you for watching and sharing your experiences 😊👍
@@abritishaudiophile7314, a critical aspect of speaker purchase is educating our ears to know just what accurate sound is. Far too many nimrods cheerfully spend their dough on impressive, flashy (boom and sizzle) systems. Not a real problem with "budget" speaker prices but a disaster in the making when large amounts of cash are involved. Speakers ain't cheap no more. Buyers remorse is a very real malady, caveat emptor.
Thank you for a video that can help everyone! This is the valuable info that few talk about and something that is essential in getting good sound. Good sound is why we are here in this hobby.
Thank you Douglas. Very much appreciated 😊👍👍
Great info and at a detail level that would help most people when choosing speakers. Every new buyer should watch this video! Wish I had this knowledge when I bought some of my units many years ago. Thanks.
Thank you Dunk. A pleasure to hear from you 😉👍
Hi Tarun great advice as usual and also so important to not buy the wrong speakers, who hasn't done that then regretted it.
Hi Rob, I know I have. Thank you for watching. 😉👍
@ A British Audiophile Hi Tarun, thank you for putting up this video. I especially appreciate your focus on going to the basics because many of us (I think) cannot commit to being audiophiles for a number of reasons such as a) equipment is not available in our region; b) it is outside of budget and c) we are all too aware of the law of diminishing returns. A final reality is that, in my case, I listen to music in my bedroom rather than a dedicated listening space therefore I have to make do with certain imperfections and try to improve what I've already got. Your videos are helpful for the purpose of fine tuning which I genuinely feel is relevant to more of your viewers than simply spending more on equipment as other RUclipsrs regularly insist on. I'm looking forward to your next series on room treatment for the average house/bedroom, using A+B speaker setup, etc.
Thank you Adarsh. That is a brilliant synopses of why I do these videos 👍👍👍
Excellent, as usual.the last point you made was extraordinarily important, namely that spending more money may not be the solution to many people's sonic quest. as you have pointed out in other videos, spending more money is never an magical, singular way to get good sound and I appreciate that you continue to include that kind of fact.
Thank you DH. I totally agree, throwing money at the problem without thinking is seldomly is going to lead you to musical nirvana. Thank you for watching and commenting 😉👍
Great stuff
As a general rule (1125 / 2 x room length) in ft. to find room resonance , Add 10 hz for ported designs, 20hz for sealed or transmission line and you find the lower speaker frequency response for your room. A stable impedance, and good sensitivity will be less amp fussy. These days a decent DAC will sort the front end , unless you choose analogue then its £500+ minimum + a decent phono stage. Then its just a question of budget.
Thank you for sharing Mike😉
Hi Tarun. I very much like your videos. I just wanted to add my views and experience about choosing speakers and amps. I personally selected my speakers based on the fact that I wanted to use a low watt SET amp. I ended up purchasing a 6 watt per channel Deckware SET integrated amp (ample power for a relatively small room) and then matched it with 98 dB full range Tekton Enzo speakers that are neutral sounding. Once I replaced the stock tubes with Gold Lion preamp and output tubes (KT 77) the outcome was very nice. My sources include a Soekris r2r dac and an Innuous Mk3 server. The other point I wanted to make is that it is possible to create nice sounding and reasonably priced systems by carefully matching components. Over the years I have learned a lot by doing my own research and through channels such as yours and Zero Fidelity.
Thank you Thomas. Looks like you have put together a wonderful system. Thank you for sharing your experiences 😊👍
Excellent TaRun. And thanks for the tablette 10 tip. Houses in Singapore are small, and this is exactly something I need to look at.
You are most welcome 😊👍
Immaculate conception of the presentation...extremly useful for the novice people in HQ audio...very pleasant indeed to renew, confirm and even wide its knowledge for the others audiophiles...Great job as always Tarun..Bravo!
Thank you Hrvoje. You support is very much appreciated 😉👍
I have kept an open mind and listened to all sorts of speakers in all places: Pubs, hi-fi shows, in record shops,in hi-fi shops (casually and in a demo) at other homes, in a fairground.
This gives me a feeling for the kind of speaker sound I like. Then I know what I am after
Thank you for watching and sharing Ado topp 😉
Great advice! I made a huge mistake, I bought my dream speakers (Infinity IRS Beta). My room was too small, because they are dipole, even with the rule of third and acoustic treatment my room is just simply to small. Lesson learned the hard way.
I have been there. Shame, I am sure they were great speakers. Thank you for sharing 😉👍
You nailed it. Exellent. And its obvious that for most ppl a 2-way will be optimal,although
in my experience the optimal setup often getting trumped by the so called WAF-factor.....
Unless of course their is a dedicated listening room available.
Thank you Zockopa. True, true 😉
Thank you for another great video. You do an excellent job explaining things in a way that is easy to understand, well done.
Thank you Paul. Much appreciated 😉👍
Another great video. When reading or watching reviews the first realisation is to understand that it’s very rare to find reviewer who will give an overall bad review. Generally a reviewer will not publish a review if they can’t find anything positive to say about the product. This doesn’t mean that products that don’t have many, if any, reviews are not good, but I would be very careful if I was considering such a product. So with most products that are reviewed getting a good review how does one decide which products should go on the short list? In my experience, the reviewer will leave little clues in the review about any potential issues the product may have and one should look out for these as they may well give you a steer as to whether a product will meet your requirements.
I bought a new pair of speakers last year and I am fortunate as there are still a number of retailers within reasonable travelling distance who will demonstrate equipment. However, I still found the decision making process very difficult. I eventually started bringing my own amplifiers to the demonstrations to try and replicate my own home conditions. And yet, because the room is so important, I don’t think this was totally successful. Unless you can get a home demonstration, or a dealer who will accept returns if your not happy, or if you distance buy, which in the UK gives you the right to return an item if you want, I think it’s very difficult to get this purchase right.
Thank you Patrick for sharing this. It will be very helpful to others. You are right, it is tricky to know what to go for.
With regards to the lack negative reviews, here is my take on things. I only tend to pick products to review that I think are interesting or I would imagine, based on past experience of the brand, will perform very well. Of course, this is no guarantee of performance or that I will like it when it eventually arrives. However, most manufacturers tweak their designs and the product evolves over successive generations rather sounding dramatically different. It helps that I have accumulated a lot of experience listening to many products over years when selecting products to review.
As the manufacturer has sent me a product in good faith, if for whatever reason I can not get on with it, I will let the manufacturer know. It may be that I have done something wrong in setup or there is a fault with the product. If these issue can not be resolved, I will return the product along with my feedback. The manufacturer may choose to take this on board and deal with it in a future revision. I don’t want to be responsible for adversely affecting someone else’s business. The only exception would be if I think a manufacturer is in some way trying to exploit their prospective customers. Then they deserve to be called out. I am early on in my reviewing career and as yet I have not had to do this.
I still listen to my 30 years old Hi-Fi. I have (larger) bookshelf speakers, costing at that time 500 Deutsche Mark each.
A year ago I moved into a Loft. So large room, making me think I need bigger speakers. But in fact, they still sound great for me here. Maybe it could be better but it sounds that good to me that I do not feel the need to change. Happy man
If you are happy. I wouldn’t change it either 😊
@@abritishaudiophile7314 thx. Fantastic channel with great knowledge and common sense 👍
Another great video with some very good tips.
Thank you Jose 😊👍
Tarun, I’ve been enjoying your videos. This one’s great too. I’ve recently moved to another country and put my speakers in a much different environment compared to my old house. Two things have made a dramatic and negative impact on my system. I’m forced to set up my speakers in a non-symmetric location, making it near impossible to achieve a good center image. Also, the stud spacing in the walls are further apart that what I’m used to. I think the walls are acting as membranes and are exaggerating the bass peaks and nulls. It’s a mess. When you create your video on room acoustics/treatment it would be great if you could address these issues. I imagine I’m not the only one who has them.
I also have a measured bass peak at 40hz and a null at 100 hz, and am not quite sure how to address it.
I want to commend you again on a terrific, informative, and well-planned video that provides tons of useful information. You are quickly becoming my favorite audiophile channel on RUclips (actually, one of my favorite channels, full stop.) I would, however, second the observation below about sourcing an amp first, prior to selecting a speaker. I have been burned in the past by falling in love with a speaker (Magnepans) that required way more power than my amp could provide. I then had go out and get the monoblocks needed to drive them appropriately. If I had to build a system over again, I would make sure I had my electronics down and settled before exploring speakers, but I would be very curious your take on this. Is it a foolhardy strategy? That would make for an interesting follow-up video.
Hi Game Escape, thank you for your kind words of support. I agree that if you already have an amplifier that you like and want to keep, you need to choose a speaker that would work well with that amplifier. However, if you are starting from scratch, I would start with the speakers first. Going with the amplifier first will significantly reduce your choice of speakers. The power output of the amplifier might be an issue but the getting the synergy right between amplifier and speakers will be the limiting factor. Doing things the other way round ensures that you have the right speakers for your room/tastes and then you choose your amplifier accordingly. 😉
Thanks for this video Tarun. My speaker search is not quite going along these lines. I’ve identified what’s most important for me and it turned out to be an elusive sonic quality! I’m looking for the natural, realistic reproduction of female voices. (One can easily get that, in a way, with headphones but I much, much, much prefer listening to my music through speakers). I’m a newbie at this Hi-Fi thing but I have listened to reasonably priced models from companies like ATC, Magnepan, Harbeth, Dynaudio, B&W, Wharfedale, Q Acoustics, etc. and the sonic coloration over female voices in all cases was surprisingly high. This is in different rooms with different front ends. When using the word coloration here, I include anything that makes the voices non-realistic. An obvious coloration is the boxiness of mainstream speakers (muffled sound, especially at low volumes). It seems that most audio reviewers are used to this un-realistic reproduction of female voices and don’t hear it anymore or take it for granted, often mentioning "natural midrange" in the face of obvious unnatural sonic clues. And this brings me to an inquiry: of all the bookshelf speakers that you have listened to (at whatever price), which ones were the best at reproducing female voices in a "real life" manner? My current humble speakers are a pair of US$200 (used price) Cambridge Audio Aero 2 with that BMR driver. The more recent Aeromax 2 is supposedly a bit better. The balanced mode radiator driver covers the frequency range from 250 Hz to 22 kHz and the traditional woofer covers the lower frequencies. These speakers are not as bad as the other ones I have listened to so far with regards to female voices but they have some flaws of their own (not very good at high listening volume for example) so I’m still searching. Our local Montreal Audio Show was of course cancelled this year. Anything out there that have impressed you with female voices, at any price? And if we consider the price, anything interesting below US$3000? Any feedback would be much appreciated! Long live your channel!
Hi Claude, thank you for sharing your experiences. I am not sure you can get a speaker that is totally natural. Of course, it is not just down to the speaker, the amplifier, source and recording itself needs to be up to par as well. In really we all have to accept certain compromises, especially if we want to keep the cost reasonable. There are some great speaker brands that you have mentioned. However, they will all impose their own specific colouration on the music. You are going to have to take a whole system approach to try to get as natural a midrange as possible. The Hegel H190 and ATC SCM19’s are pretty natural sounding with female vocals but are going to be pricey over in Canada. If I recall, that is where you are from. The Magnepan LRS with a Classe amplifiers would be worth auditioning and probably better value in Canada. Please let me know how you get on. 😉👍
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Thanks for your insight Tarun. I’ve listened to the ATC SCM40 v2 and the Magnepan 1.7i (this one with the Hegel H190 in a well treated room). These two didn’t give me what I wanted but I’ll be careful not to dismiss some speakers too quickly considering the importance of synergies and the whole of the audio chain. Right now, I want to listen to what’s available out there and find out if there is a quick and easy way for me to reach female vocals bliss. Next weekend, I’ll bring home a pair of Revel Performa3 M106 for a one-day audition.
Naturally, I looked if there were other speakers with a BMR driver but at a higher level than the Cambridge Audio Aero 2s. Didn’t find much but Rega offers one unusual beast: the expensive RS10 with a BMR driver covering the 300 Hz to 6 kHz range. Did you get a chance to listen to a pair of those? Thanks again for your time.
Hi Claude, I haven’t listened to those. Please let me know how you get on 😉
Great work as usual! Listening to friends' speakers good or bad and reading reviews of them can put you on to similar or contrasting speakers by the same reviewers helping to narrow the options. Thanks!
Good advice, listen to as much gear as you can regardless of the setting. Ultimate evaluation done at home. 😉👍
A good strategy - almost excactly the process I have been through over the last six months. I chose a budget figure and picked three speakers to audition. Actually, a pair of Proac D2's (not the R-version) was on my shortlist. Incidentally, I ended up with speakers that were not on my shortlist. But very good ones, and I am quite pleased.
Thank you for sharing kirlu 😉
Excellent Informative video I pretty much did everything you suggested when purchasing my speakers!
Great minds think alike 😂
Thanks for another great video. I look forward to your video on room treatment.
Totally agree with your comments on equipment reviews.
BTW I've always enjoyed the sound of the ProAcs.
Thanks buddy. Always great to hear from you 😉👍
Another incredible informative Video, I am looking to put together a hifi sistem, after seeing your Video, I think I got a better understandig of what Kind of speakers to look for.
Still got a year ahead of me, lot of time to do my reaserch. Looking forward for the next Videos. Thank You. Greetings from Austria
Thank you Constantin. Take your time to do your homework and listen before you buy or at least be able to return them if you don’t like them. How is the Austrian summer? 😉👍
@@abritishaudiophile7314 The Summer here, has been British so far 😄, just rain and below 20 degrees 😬
Sounds like the U.K. Constantin 🥶🥵
Hi
Just like to say what a brilliant channel you have, very immersive and perfectly pitched for all.
I would like to pick your very unbiased brains / point of view on a problem of making the best of the British lounge.
I have a Anthem Marx 720 paired with Pmc Twenty5 centre and Pmc Twenty5 23 floor standing left and right front, with Difinitive pro cinema rears. I would really like to add where needed to this to improve if possible and to be able to enjoy music cds etc.
I would really appreciate your input if you have the time.
Please keep up the great channel and I look forward to enjoying what you bring.
All the best.
Hi Kevin, thank you. That is very kind of you. The most important thing is speaker positioning. I did a video on this if you want to know what to tweak. If you are happy with your system I wouldn’t change it but if you want to go to the next level, I would get your AV amp out of the chain for two channel listening. I know the Anthem products well and one of my closest friends used to be the U.K. Sales Manager for Anthem and Paradigm. Sadly the U.K. distributor passed away and the distribution company with him. I would look at a some monoblocks for the front three speakers and leave the MRX720 for surround duties. It is not about power the MRX720 has plenty but it is about refinement. Try something like the Audiolab 8300MB. What is your source as you don’t want to be relying on the MRX720 internal DAC?
A British Audiophile
Hi Tarun
Thanks for the reply. We have just opened up our kitchen and in doing so I have lost what was a Hifi area. As with most uk houses there’s always a thirst / battle for space and compromises to be agreed with the wife. To that end I am trying to combine my love of film and cinema with the family, with a desire for ‘good’ ‘improved’ or ‘better’ sound and vision.
So I am changing slowly everything from hd to 4K and would love to now include items to use the Pmc speakers to enjoy music... but my knowledge is weak on how best to achieve this.
In the past I have spent many a good hour at Hifi shops where unbiased advice and goods were equally available. But it seems now that dealers have decided what they want to sell before you open the door and my confidence in them has past.
Also to change things in my house, getting it passed my wife’s disbelieving ear, it has to be a good step up and still look beautiful when it’s turned off.
Please if you are interested in detailing the items to integrate and the best way to interconnect them? That would be great and I would love to hear your ideas including the fact that the Panasonic 9000 isn’t probably going to be good enough as a CD player? But if not what is the best way to use the Pmc as stereo speakers.. possibly a Cyrus one to aide switching?? And what level of DACs, player, etc??
Sorry, hope that you are not put off replying by my lack of knowledge.
Many thanks.
Kevin.
Hi Kevin, it is really difficult to get an AV system to sound good with two channel music unless you spend shed loads of money. Very few companies bridge both disciplines well. The only one at sensible money that comes to mind is Arcam. Ultimately you don’t want the Anthem MRX in the signal path for two channel listening. This means replacing it with a good quality AV processor and power amps costing the best part of £10k. You might get away with something like the Arcam AVR30 @ £5k. Frankly, I don’t think it is cost effective.
I would use the Panasonic player as a transport and connect it to a good external DAC to it. Then I would feed the DAC output back into the analogue input of the MRX 720. Just for two channel listening. That way you are not using the digital processing of the AV receiver. The Chord Mojo DAC @ £400 would do the job nicely. It was really intended for headphone use but sounds great in a desktop setup. You will have to live with connectivity limitations and leave it powered up all the time. I would spend £50 on an iFi ipower 5V supply and keep the Mojo permanently power up. I use the Mojo and iPower in my system.
Always enjoy your videos... Few things you mentioned are not common in other source of reviews, like the listening position and volume, etc. One addition factor I rarely hear is the type of music. A system that plays well for jazz may not be good enough for symphony orchestra. I wish to see some methodical way to rate speakers or hi-fi components for that.
I am not sure there is one. Not to my knowledge at least. Thank you for watching 😉
Raphael Hukai I’ve found that dealers will often ask “what type of music do you listen too?” So either it’s a relevant question or the dealer is just making small talk. In my case it’s not a particularly helpful question as I listen to a variety of different types of music and I want my system to play them all well.
@@patl709 Thanks Mr. Lenihan! I guess people often mention "personal taste", and type of music may related to it, but may not be an important factor as you stated. I feel some of the so-called "audiophile music" doesn't sounds pleasant to me at all, however, they did the job to demo the capability of the gears :)
A couple of points that I think should be mentioned also are speaker directivity differences and floorstanding versus bookshelf speakers. There are large differences in the radiating pattern of speakers from omni, dipole, forward radiating cones, domes, etc. and horn speakers. There are also large differences in the sound of these different types that are probably more important than anything else when choosing the sound that you like. Omnis and dipoles sound large and airy due to the high percentage of reflected versus direct sound. The forward radiating types have a greater percentage of direct versus reflected sound with horn speakers providing the greatest amount of direct versus reflected sound. This can be advantageous because there is less impact of the room acoustics to the sound above the transition frequency.
As for floorstanding versus bookshelves, remember that bookshelves need to be placed on stands and this adds to the cost of the decision. Floorstanding speakers are larger and will provide more bass response than a bookshelf which probably will need augmentation of the bass via subwoofer(s) which also adds to the cost. For listening to music versus movies in a home theater, a 40Hz low frequency rolloff can be useable as the lowest frequency of a standard bass guitar is 41.2Hz.
Thank for sharing Stewart 😉👍
Thanks Tarun, this was very helpful and made sooo much sense. My issue is not so much one of speaker budget but potential standing wave/room mode problems. I have a small listening room (11'x12') with minimum soft furnishings. I was initially thinking to purchase a larger, more expensive standmount speaker. However, I am now seriously considering a smaller monitor such as the ProAc Tablette 10 Signature (5" woofer) monitor (which I know you quite like) and to supplement this with a REL Acoustic (or two) subwoofer(s). I am very wary of (read: paranoid!) about potential bass problems in my small room. The jury is still out...unfortunately, where I live I cannot try out speakers so I need to get it right first time! Thanks again. P.S. Are you thinking about offering a Patreon platform/membership? I really enjoy your channel.
Thank you Marc. I am hoping to offer a Patreon soon.
Bass response in small, relatively square and rooms with lots of reflective surfaces is going to be an issue. Speaker positioning is key as well as flexibility with listening position. The next step is room treatment for those who can accommodate it. Adding two correctly set up small subwoofers to whatever speakers you choose will help to even the bass response a lot. You will go from 2 bass sources to 4 bass sources. This is something that very few people understand about the role of subwoofers. It is not just about bass weight and extension. Another solution should be to use DSP in the low frequencies. Good luck and please let me know how you get on 😊👍
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Thanks Tarun, really appreciate your feedback.
Your channel is fantastic. Thanks from Australia.
Thank you jocko. Much appreciated 😉👍
As you are saying, the room, speaker placement and interior plays a huge part. That is why I as a beginner am hesitant towards going to an audio dealer to listen to speakers. I think that their listening space and supporting equipment is, if not much better suited, at least way different than my listening room.
If I would have to go to multiple dealers to be able to listen to a few different speakers, making out the differences would probably also be interfered by their differences in setup and space compared to the other dealers. Hence I feel intimidated to even go and do it. I am a bit more into DIY though, so I think I´ll try building my own speakers with some quality components and just hope to come out with something decent. Though, would probably be good to have a set of proffessionally made speakers to compare with...
Hi bingoberra18, excellent comments well made. I understand how intimidating it can be going to dealers. Find a friendly one if you can. Listening to the speakers in their environment will give you a good idea of how they sound. The ultimate listening tests should be done at home. Make sure you have the option to return the speakers. Any decent dealer will let you do that. I greatly admire anyone who tries the diy route. Good luck 😉👍
Hi bingoberra18. I started building speakers many years ago. Great hobby and with the internet these days you can get lots of help. Be forewarned there is a bit of a learning curve, particularly if your intention is to design your own from scratch.. This means selecting your drivers, designing your cross-overs, deciding what type of enclosure you want, designing the enclosures etc. You can always go the kit route but then that's not much different than buying pre-built speakers (except maybe you can tweak them a bit). You can also buy modelling software that is not to pricey. I have never used modelling software because I wanted my design to be as original as possible. I did invest in some speaker testing software (TrueRTA). I bought this software on the internet about 12 years ago and it still works great (paid about $99 at the time). The last speakers I built were transmission lines and they have amazing bass extension for the 5 1/4" woofers I used. It has been a very rewarding experience. I have only built 2 way speakers as it is easier to design the cross-overs and get them right. If you decide to go this way good luck. I also have an Excel spreadsheet that I made to do all the calculations for my cross-overs and cabinet design for the transmission lines. You are welcome to a copy of it if you would like.
I generally look for the tonality and how and natural it sounds. As the speakers make the biggest difference overall I would find a speaker you like then build the system around the speaker to get the most out of the speaker rather than the other way around.
Good advice Din 😉
Completely agree. I never really understood what people meant when they described tonality (beyond what I could just imagine). It was only from investing time to just listen to a broad range of speakers did I fully grasp the range of tonal variance.
I often found that spending time at an audio dealer on their slow hours and slow days helps. I learned a lot because they were bored and had time to talk 🙂.
Good tip Keith 😉
70%spkr setup20%treatment 10% spkr. Exclnt synthesis! Thnks
Thank you 😉👍
If you can find speakers coupled with decent amplification that has depth and stage to it at low levels then your on track I think. I opted for floor standers (Vienna Acoustics) for my circumstances.
There are occasions when you might drive speakers to higher levels and annoy the neighbours after a few glasses of red though Tarun.
You are described my Saturday night 😂 Thanks Filofilo
Well done Buddy!!! And great points!!!👍😄🙏
Thank you. I hope you are well 😉👍
@@abritishaudiophile7314 yes my friend. I'm glad to see you looking bright and upbeat too!!!!🍀😄👍
HiViNyws channel
Hey, Ian! It’s so awesome to “see” you here. Woohoo! 🎶👍🔊🙂🎵✌️
Ian. Have you retired?
@@NickP333 Buddy Nick👋😄!!!!!!
We have many types of speaker out there and if I were spending large amounts I would want to audition them in my music room as no other room can duplicate your rooms quirks and if you get it wrong then you have thrown good money away......I don't have an answer for it other than design your own as did I and the stay put and don't flit. Thank you for a laid back chat on speakers.
Mick
Thank you Mick 😉
Sound advice, Tarun, if you'll excuse the pun! For anyone who's new to this and feeling a bit overwhelmed by the science, can I suggest as an extra, empirical stage buying a temporary pair of speakers? Pick up a well-regarded budget speaker second-hand, and experiment. Now it's time to start thinking about what Tarun says. Try different placements so that you learn by doing, adjust the room whereever it's practical, and you'll discover the kind of sound signature that you prefer. When you've got the best you can out of it, think about the speaker's shortcomings and strengths. You're ready to start shopping in earnest, looking for a speaker that shares those strengths but addresses the weaknesses!
Always great to hear from you and great practical advice 😉👍
Diffraction, refraction, reflexion, not identical, and not equivalent in terms of what is heard, and what might best be done about them. Room modes are functions of room shape and size (L,W, and H), not just one or two of those factors. Regardless, you are correct in sum; it's about speaker, speaker, speaker...
Hello Tarun, great in-depth commentary as always. I wanted to run you through an observation that I made while listening to my bookshelves and know your point of view from science and listening perspective. So these speakers that I have may not be 2000 Euro ones that you have been reviewing :) but they do decent job for the price point and the space I can afford. These are Polk RTI A3 and have a unique sound diffuser arrangment at back probably to dampen the sound coming from back before it reaches back wall and hence reducing the interference of reflected sound. I simply do not have the luxury of maintaining wall distance of 3 feet or alike behind my speakers. Somehow I did not observe much resonance even after keeping my speakers few inches from behind wall. Seek your point of view on the same, would be great if you can see the design and let me know if it makes sense, as these one way dampeners can allow flexible placement of speakers without too much loss of quality.
Best Regards,
Vikrant
Hi Vikrant, there are some great affordable speakers around but I am not familiar with this one. Had a quick look and it is an interesting design. It has a front and rear port working together in what Polk describe as their Resonance Control Technology. According to Polk the two ports work together to act like one long flared port. This reduces the tubulance and chuffing noise (a form of distortion). Also, it is claimed by tuning the second (rear) port to the same frequency as the internal cabinet resonance, these resonances are reduced. Someone would have to do a proper scientific investigation to verify their claims but it is an intriguing design. Thank you for watching 😉👍
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Many thanks for taking time and sharing your thoughts on design, wishing you continued success.
Thank you Vikrant 😉👍
Hi Tarun. I've heard that it can be beneficial to source your amp first based on what type of sound your looking for, then match your speakers to that sound. I have also heard people say what you have said. I would have thought a front ported speaker would have been ok to put closer to a wall but I have learned something new today. Good wee video yet again.
Hi Steve, I would disagree with the amp first approach. It will limit your speaker choice and that is the most critical aspect to get right. Yeh, it is a common misconception that the position of the port determines how close a speaker can be placed to a wall. There is some truth to it but it is a lot more complex than that. Baffle step, bass response, edge diffraction and a lot of other factors come into effect. Good to hear from you 😉
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Now I've learned two things and thanks for the reply. What about speakers like PCM? They have a transmission design I believe. Would they be ok closer to the wall say 30cm, as I have limited space due to one chair in the room.
Hi Steve, I will find out for sure when I get a pair in to review but looking at them I would say no. There are some common traits you find in speakers that work well close to walls. Their bass rolls of relatively early as the designer compensates for the bass boost due to the speakers being close to walls. They tend to be higher sensitivity, why not if you are reducing bass response as a designer you may as well take the boost in sensitivity as you get this for free. They tend to be shallow in depth but have a wider front baffle. This lowers the frequency at which the speaker becomes omnidirectional. Essentially more of the midrange is projected forward of the front baffle rather wrapping around a narrow front baffle. This helps with timing issues when a speaker is close to a wall. They tend to be a sealed box because sealed enclosures naturally roll of bass earlier and have better timing than the equivalent ported design. Time smearing due to reflections from nearby walls and boomy bass are the two main problems to try to resolve when designing a speaker to work close to a wall. Sealed boxes just naturally lend themselves to this scenario.
This may be a good topic to discuss in it’s own video. How to design a speaker to work close to walls. Then I could also talk about DSP and speakers with a cardioid response.
@@abritishaudiophile7314 I've never had a reviewer write such an in depth response as you Tarun so thanks for that. The reason that I brought up PMC is because a friend of mine is a PMC dealer and he has a pair of Twenty5 26 for sale for £2995 which is a steal. I've never really liked the way PMC looked but I'm more interested in their sound. I might take a trip down to see what they sound like with an Exposure amp as he also stocks them, but judging by what you have said they may not be suitable. Thanks again Tarun for your advice.
Hi Tarun great video again. I have had to go with KEF LS50’s at the moment due to availability of product at the moment in SL. They seemed to pair nicely with Audiolab 8300A. If I was to want Wharfedale Lintons was probably a 6 month wait. I have deposited and not 100% committed and having buyers remorse already. Hopefully it is a worthwhile system in the room I have. Cheers
Good to hear from you buddy. The Kef LS50 and Audiolab 8300A should make a very nice system. Next step add a decent subwoofer or better still two smaller ones. Sorry getting you to spend more money but they will give you a full, range sound and better bass management in your room. 😉👍
A British Audiophile will do but have to get these past the wife without noticing. I assume that link you sent for subs is the way to go. Might get your advice when I make the decision cheers
I would go with a dedicated subwoofer manufacturer like Bk elec or REL 😉
Thank you for sharing this valuable information.
You are most welcome. Thank you for watching 😊👍
Gosh, I wish the HIFI sales people here would give me the advice you just shared on this video. I am trying to do my homework and I am frustrated. Truly, yes the shopping of HIFI gear has changed since the last I shopped some twenty years ago. I am doing my homework but its confusing, but if I don't do it who will? I welcome any advice concerning "Better off picking a speaker that will work well in my room in the first place". I already picked my speaker for neutral (slightly warm if that) and high efficiency: Klipsch Forte III. It's just what I prefer, it communicated to me, not because it is analytical but fun. I have another room for a system and I'll go for a more analytical type speaker for there, but not now. My room is 17ft W. x 26ft L. x 6.10 ft drop ceiling. It is carpeted, panel walls, sofa and loveseat, so its dampened. But the Forte's are a wide disbursement speaker and I want them so much could I use an extreme toe in (left speaker facing my right shoulder, right speaker to my left shoulder)? Providing of course that I get good imaging or center imaging at this extreme toe in. They may be either 7 to 9 ft apart and about 2 to 3 ft from side walls, and I guess between a few inches to 3 ft from rear wall (it is a rear radiator speaker). Ideas? If I have to consider a different high efficiency speaker and with less wide disbursement so be it, I hope not, but I have to do this correct. Cheers.
Hi MARK, pretty much every speaker is omni directional at low frequencies. Many manufacturers use a waveguide to narrow the dispersion of the tweeter to achieve a better match with the mid or mid/woofer at the cross over point. Let’s consider a simple 2 way box speaker. If the speaker is well designed, the crossover will be below the mid/woofer’s KA2 point (driver’s circumference/wavelength). This is where the mid/woofer becomes noticeably directional. By narrowing the dispersion of the tweeter at the crossover point you can achieve better driver integration and a smoother off axis response. The trade off is spaciousness that you typically get from wide dispersion speakers. Also, wide dispersion speakers typically have better imaging capabilities due to the stronger side reflection, counter intuitive but true !
Horn tweeters and those with deep waveguides are what I would generally refer to as narrow dispersion speakers. They produce a less strong side reflection than a wide dispersion speaker. This makes them more flexible in terms of non ideal room setups and speaker positioning. I am not sure that the Forte III is wide dispersion. I couldn’t say for sure without checking out the design. I wouldn’t focus too much on it though, more important to get a speaker with a tonal balance you like and has enough dynamic output for what is a fairly large room in your case.
I hope this helps 😊👍
Another great video, thank you for your channel and work.
Thank you Joshua. Much appreciated 😊👍
Thanks for the great videos. Always informative, and I wait eagerly for the next one in the hifi tips series.
I think an issue in selecting speakers is not being able to try them out in your own space. There will always be a dependency on online reviews, or the dealers themselves. And very few of them are without bias.
I've been struggling to decide on a pair of speakers myself, and having been entranced by the harbeth brand a few years ago, have narrowed it down to 2 among their line. The monitor 30s or the Super HL5 . I'm hoping you would be able to provide some expert advise given the room size is 15' X 17' . Do I sacrifice some of the bass and get the smaller speakers given that room treatment would be fairly minimal and I'm going to depend on furniture for diffraction. Supplemented by a sub . Or should I just get the larger speaker instead ?
I'ts not an insignificant amount of money and I'm probably going to get just one shot at getting it right. 😅
Hi argruid, you have a reasonable sized room so neither are likely to overload your room with bass if placed far enough away from walls. As you have a subwoofer you can get away with the smaller speaker and still get full range sound. The determining factor should be which speaker you prefer the sound of and how well it works with your amplifier, assuming you are not changing it.
You can always send Alan Shaw at Harbeth an email with details of your system, your room and preferred sound characteristics and see what he advises. They kind of money you are spending you need to listen to both. Thank you for watching 😉
The one thing a person can do is try a stereo dealer that has a room set up similar to what your audio room is. It doesn't have to be exact but if it has rugs and objects that fill in then you can get a rough idea how they'll sound in your home. Generally though if you have a hard room with no rugs or much furniture or objects you may want to stay away from, for example, a horn loaded design. Ask the dealer if you could listen to them at home for 1 day or if you have the option to return them if not satisfied. Most dealers should accommodate that. If not then your decision becomes more critical and you may want to lean on a more conservative design that won't bleed your ears or your pockets. Good review.
Thank you Gregory. Good advice 😉
I just discovered your channel. Really enjoying your content. Thank you. I have a question. I have a Hegel 160 amp which I have been using with a pair of Neat Mystique II floorstanders but I've moved and I'm wondering if I can do better for the space I'm now in.
I have the hifi in a fairly spacious L - shaped room with lots of carpet and upholstery. The trouble is I'm really limited in where I can position speakers and I'm stuck with putting them near ( about 20" from ) a corner and about 6 inches from the wall. I'm wondering if a pair of standmounters would be good but not sure.
I listen mainly in headphones these days so I don't want to spend a fortune. Ideally I'd like to pick something up around the £750 mark and I'd be happy to buy used. I listen to classical and Jazz and I like a warm, relaxed, non-fatiguing sound and I wondered about the AE300s though I'm not sure they would not really match the Hegel very well.
I'm open to ideas. Do you have any suggestions, please?
Hi Wooster, thank you for watching. There are so many considerations that it is difficult to predict. My advice is to try a stand-mount speaker and see. If you are really struggling we can get into the ribs of it on my Patreon Benfactor or Consultancy tier 😊👍
Thanks Tarun - great video as usual! Regards, Riaz
Thank you 👍
Hi great information thanx. i have bought used JBL TLX 700 Tower and since than i am trying to find information about these speakers so that i can do home work as you suggested for determining amp . ( the only info i founs is as follows; ( kindly suggest what and where i shuld look for )...
Type: 3 way, 3 driver loudspeaker system
Frequency Response: 35Hz to 25kHz
Recommended Amplifier: 10 to 150W
Crossover Frequency: 600, 3000Hz
Impedance: 8Ω
Sensitivity: 90dB
Bass: 1 x 210mm cone
Midrange: 1 x 100mm cone
Tweeter: 1 x 25mm dome
Finish: black
Dimensions: 855 x 255 x 291mm
Weight: 16kg
Year: 2000
You need to choose an amplifier that can drive those speakers. The minimum and max impedance will determine how easy they are to drive. I suspect they are fairly easy to drive so you should be good with most amplifiers. Now you need to narrow the search to 3 amps to audition. How do you do that? Find out what other people use that have a natural synergy. Reviews and forums are a good place to start. Bare in mind this is just other people’s ideas of what works and may not suit your tastes. You need to be clear about what sound characteristic you want. If you think the speakers lack warmth, choose an amplifier that has a warmer sound. If you think the bass is a bit loose, choose an amplifier that has tight and fast bass. I am sure you get the idea. In the end make sure you listen to 3 amps before you choose one. 👍
I have an upcoming video series on this, but let me try to provide an abbreviated version: First, my preference is for a three way design since this allows for the use of a large bass driver that does not also have to cover the mid frequencies up to the tweeter range (better bass, limited doppler distortion). Second, I prefer just one driver per range (one tweeter, one mid driver and one bass driver per channel) so as to get the most quality from each driver and to avoid wave interference patterns produced by multiple mid drivers. Third, I prefer a dome tweeter to get the most quality for the money, although many ribbon tweeter speakers no doubt sound excellent, and I might choose this if I were not building my own. Fourth, I prefer a small mid driver of 5 1/4 inch diameter to attain flat frequency response into the tweeter range, this as a compromise between a large and a smaller mid driver. Finally, I prefer large bass drivers of either 10 inch or 12 inch diameter, in a large box with a large vented alignment, which I have to build myself. So if I were to buy factory made speakers, I would look for a pair of satellite speakers with driver sizes noted above, and set them on stands placed into the room (they can always be moved out of the way when guests visit). I would also audition alternate sub woofers, esp those using passive radiators that allow for vented like performance in a moderate sized box.
Thank you for sharing Speaker Builder
You have done it again. Another great video!!!
Thank you Richard. Always great to hear from you 😉👍
Absorbsion: Everybody buy BIG teddy bears now!
They are prettier than bass traps!!! 😂
Come off it Tarun, I know for certain that the teddy bear is your special friend.
😂😂😂
Hi Tarun...
Yes, interesting stuff...
The listening room I'm designing, is going to have adjustable wall treatments built in!
This is quite complex to explain, but hopefully will become clear with periodic photographs...
Frank...
PS, as regards to the speaker design I'm also working on, apart from the open baffle/vented box design
which sounds a contradiction in terms, I'm looking into 3 way crossovers currently...
This in itself isn't that easy... lol
Thank for the update Frank 😉👍
Great to see Teddy again!
Cheers Jay 🐻
Hello! Thanks for your great content and sharing your knowledge! I am getting into the hobby of audio now and trying to figure out what is the best sort of speaker to buy. Bookshelf or floorstanding? I am totally fascinated by a great and detailed stereo image, thats what i definetly want. When i tested some different speakers i could figure out that it is much easier to get a nice stereo image with bookshelf speakers. Floorstand speakers need much more space from the walls to generate a stereo image and a virtual center. Can you explain the physics behind this phenomen? I like the much more dynamic sound of floorstaning speakers, but my space in the listening room is limited. The speakers have to be near the walls, maximum 30cm distance. Or is there a special sort of speaker construction that avoids this problem? Thanks a lot!
Hi Stephan, a speakers ability to image well is down to a number of variables, phase anomalies in the crossover, the speed and lack of distortion in the drivers. However, the reason why bookshelf speakers generally image better than their floorstanding stablemates is due to the smaller front baffle. All front baffles diffract sound which causes timing errors. Floorstander’s by their nature have a larger front baffle and more edge diffraction issues. This is why bookshelf speakers generally image better.
You want to choose a speaker that has been designed to work well close to walls. It is likely to be a sealed box with a wider front baffle and shallower in depth. Something like the Proac Tablette 10s. The bass response rolls off earlier than other Proac designs as the close to wall location results in bass reinforcement. The wider front baffle results in the baffle step loss occurring at a lower frequency. It is a sealed box because there frequency response is naturally more suited to being placed closer to walls compared to a vented enclosure. Thank you for watching and your kind words of support 😉👍
A British Audiophile Thank you for this detailed answer! Now its getting a bit brighter in my brain! 😝 Greetings from switzerland!
You are most welcome Stephan 😉
A British Audiophile I found the UK located company Fyne Audio that is relatively new to the speaker market. I could hear the F500 bookshelf monitors at my dealer, the Floorstand F501 are at their way to my dealer, so i can make a test hearing between them. I was very impressed by the F500. The sound was very airy and the stereo image was outstanding! Did you ever heard the Fynes too? Is there a special thing with their point source driver and the down firing bass port that support my aim for this great stereo imaging? Greeting and thanks!
Hi Stephan, I have only heard Fyne Audio speakers at hifi shows so will have to get round to giving them a proper listen at some point.
Fantastic video!! Thanks, Tarun!
Thank you Felipe 😉👍
I agree with the caution on room treatment. There are so many reviewers today who overemphasise on this aspect but the reality is (in my opinion) that for many people including my self, the room is what it is and offers little scope for treatment (space, aesthetics, cost) I guess I am not enough of an audiophile to allow the presence of my sound system to be intrusive in my home beyond a certain point. So I agree, you should match your speakers to your room which by the way is not easy at all to asses.
What you hear also a lot is that sound is fake anyway and you are never going to recreate a concert hall in your living room so you may as well go with the sound signature of particular speaker manufacturers you know you like. This has served me well over the years.
Finally, it seems that modern reviewers and audiophiles are completely adverse of using tone control. Personally I don't agree. I am happy to crank up and down my tone control according to my mood, the volume I play at and to compensate for what I perceive a deficiency in a speaker. Typically in my situation I have the attenuator at -35dB, base control to plus 3 dB and the treble flat. For late evening listening, attenuator to -50 dB and lower and I up the base to 6 dB and add loudness (unfortunately I live in an apartment and I wish to stay on speaking terms with my neighbours).
Great advice. Thanks Hugo 😉👍
great vid,anytime your up the east coast scotland buzz me,i would lov a honest opinion on my set-up
Certainly Glen, thank you 😉
Very informative video! I've been quietly looking around for speakers, one thing I've noticed is that a lot of reviewers generally tend to have bookshelf speakers. I myself have always owned floorstanders, such as the B&W CM7 I have now. While I like it for it's lively midrange, I feel the bass is lacking a bit of punch, even for it's size. Since my room isn't all that big, let's say up to 20m2, would you rather recommend a bookshelf speaker?
I wouldn’t suggest you switch to a bookshelf. There are pros and cons to both. The bass problem may be your speaker positioning or the amplifier you are using to drive it. Try and experiment with both 😊👍
Hi. These vids have really helped I've been flitting around with speakers choices.
The re-issued ls3 5a's from falcon seem interesting, I like that they're British, they're nice and small (I've got a small room) and the midrange detail is good, I'd get a separate little sub with them.
They're probably a bit over priced for what they are but I don't mind that too much. What that might mean though is that the usual guidelines around spending ratios might not apply. Do you think I could get away with a slightly less expensive amp (maybe around £300 or so, eg: the Yamaha as501) or do you think those speakers would perform significantly better with a higher end amp?
I'm going with the chord mojo DAC.
Great vids man, if you don't get around to answering, no problem (if you do, I like the idea of supporting British businesses at moment, I'm even considering a sugden, if I can justify the spend so any suggestions you might have from that company would be interested). Thanks man.
Hi William, the Falcon LS3/5As do have a warmth and richness in the midrange that few speakers can match. As you mentioned, you do pay a premium for them though. I would not partner them with an inexpensive amp. The lack of refinement will rob you of the strengths of that speaker. You need something like a Naim, Exposure or Hegel to get the speakers to retain their midrange charm. An alternative speaker with similar qualities that will work great in a small room is the ProAc Tablette Signatures. And they are cheaper which means could could spend more on the amp. Thank you for watching and your support 😊👍
@@abritishaudiophile7314 yes, I think I heard you mention the ProAc Tablette Signatures in this video and when you did I thought they might be a good alternative to the ls3 5a's. Thanks.
Thanks again! Another great smorgasbord of information, I took notes( I'm not to proud to say, I got to Google some of the thing's you presented on the table and don't stop! I need to know the right terminology to call convey what I need when the time comes).
I have a pair of KEF's 100's, I'm in the process of changing the crossovers( I know, they 0didn't put the best components in them, they're a manufacturer, to make their price point, they can only do so much) so, I'm following you're lead,and I'm saving and researching for my next pair of speakers, then the amplifier etc.etc. Once again keep these meals coming, your American brother, have a great day.
Hi Willie, great to hear from you as always. Looks like you are on your way to hifi bliss. The older I get, the easier I can admit what I don’t understand. I don’t know if that is wisdom or just being more comfortable with myself. What I do know is that I am a lot more open to learning new things and people are much more willing to help me. I wish I knew that 20 years ago. I guess what I am really saying is that I admire your attitude, honesty and willingness to learn. Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment Willie 😉👍
@@abritishaudiophile7314 thanks! As my Mom use to say, you're in bad shape when you can't or won't learn anything or worst of all, know it all( can't tell em' nothing! Lol), if it's alright I'd like to ask( if I missed, you're opinion on r2r dac's are there different ladder or forms) with dac's my funds are limited so to future prove my system( and I'm sure I'll get laughed at for that statement, but, my folks response as mine is " The only stupid question is the one you don't ask!) my dac money will be no more than 500 to 600 American dollars ( and I'm sure that will be used, that's why my thirst for knowledge, from people that know)
You're video on the Mojo, schooled me, that's not a r2r dac, so, that's my delima old school r2r the new kid( whatever the format) of the Mojo and the likes, a point in the right direction or I'll be waiting daily
on your food for thoughts on the matter, thanks for responding to my inputs and thoughts, it's all motivation for me, alright NUFF SAID! Your American brother take care.
Hi Willie, I am hoping to get the Denafrips Aries II R2R DAC in for review soon. So watch out for that review. I wouldn’t get too hung up on topology. There is a lot more to how a DAC performs than the chip inside and its basic topology. Input stage, power supply and output stage all play their part to the overall sound quality. My advice is to focus on the type of sound characteristics you want be it R2R, Sabre, FPGA or something else. I do think that Chord DAC set the benchmark in terms of sound quality at the moment but this opinion may change as I review more DACs.
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Thanks, for the heads up! My plan is to do as much future proofing as possible. So, with a little more help Currawong and research( I must admit, going over and over your videos I'm starting to understand some of the terms, I really appreciate you're taking the time to explain in a way that makes my learning process easier)
I'm really looking forward to your thoughts on r2r dac's, because( from my understanding) they are said to be more "warm" enjoyable, musical,but, doesn't measure as well as the other dac's, from me to you, sometimes I like to have a fun listen and just as often, I'm disecting every little thing in the arrangements. So my brother, I'm awaiting your words of wisdom, take care of yourself and of course your family, have a great day, you're American brother.
Bit late joining the party, but enjoying your content.
@@RUFF-UNIT thank you 😊
Are the speakers fantech sonar GS202 good? I found them on a website and i really like the fact that they have 2 colors to choose which are black or pink. I really liked the pink ones. The are also small and i would easily fit thwm on my desk which i really like. But i dont know if the sound is good and i value the sound more than the looks.
I am not familiar with them. Maybe someone else can help 😉
This is such a great channel. Could you discuss the tools you recommend for vinyl playback? For example things like stylus cleaners, record cleaners, etc.
Thank you utub. I am probably the wrong guy to ask about this one, having ditched my vinyl 20 years ago. I know 😪😪😪
You may want to check out this video by Paul Rigby
ruclips.net/video/duzVUTRLET8/видео.html
Thanks for another laid back and informative ‘tube...👍
Have you ever reviewed/heard the Bosendorfer (as in piano manufacturers) series of speakers?
Hi Cool Carbon, I didn’t know they made speakers just some expensive pianos. What are they like?
img.ukaudiomart.com/uploads/large/944291-84655d1e-bosendorferbrodmann-vc2-speakers-in-fantastic-burl-birch.jpg
Different for sure, there is stuff out there worth a read if you get bored for a few minutes...
Thank you
Hi Tarun. Just stopping halfway through binge-watching your excellent videos to ask a hopefully general question: What to do/buy, when you're forced to place your speakers on a bookshelf?
Like many of us, I'm forced to place my (future) speakers on a bookshelf, but how best to ameliorate the negative effects that this position usually has on the sound? I suppose that a sealed box is better that a back-ported one, and as my bookshelf is an actual 4x2 meter bookshelf full of books (my living-room end-wall), I can freely position the height and spacing of the speakers, and Iam inclined to align the front of the speaker with the books, but questions remain :)
Is a sealed box inherently better than a front-ported one?
Is room-correction a subsequent necessity?
Is an active speaker better suited to this position than a passive?
If possible, do you have any specific speaker- or system-suggestions for me :) The living-room dimensions are 4x6 meters and have some bright spots, but rugs and bookshelves as well. I divide my listening equally between chamber-music, jazz and 1970s rock, almost always played at medium level. My speaker-budget is around £1200 and I guess I'm leaning towards a warm sound, rather than an analytical one. I guess the ProAc Tablette, that you mention, is a good candidate, but maybe there are others.
Sorry about the flood of questions. Hope you have time to answer some of them :) Again, thank you for the time and effort you put into these excellent and enjoyable videos.
Hi earkivaren, thank you for the question. I will break this down in sections as there is a bit to cover:
PORTED SPEAKERS:
At the frequencies associated with a port, bass is omni-directional. The location of the port makes little difference to whether a speaker will work close to a wall or not. The reason the port is placed at the rear in many cases is that at high volumes some designs are prone to make a “chuffing” sound which can be audible. Placing it at the rear makes this less noticeable. All said a rear ported speaker does throw out a little more energy backward than forwards so I cant think of a rear ported speaker that was designed to work against a wall.
SEALED ENCLOSURES:
A sealed box means that the bass will roll of earlier and at a 12dB per octave slope as opposed to a ported design which will have greater bass extension but will then roll off at a faster rate of 24dB/octave. Not all sealed boxes will work well close to a wall. For example, the ATC SCM 7s and 19s I recently tested. Sealed boxes typically have a faster bass response than a ported speaker as the back energy from the woofer is used as a spring to move the woofer back and forth more quickly. This is a massive oversimplification but will do for what we need to understand here.
SPEAKERS DESIGNED TO WORK CLOSE TO A WALL:
The closer you place a speaker to a wall the more bass boost you will get. It will also tend to sound less well defined in the bass. This is why speakers designed to work close to walls tend to be sealed boxes. You are just working with the natural characteristics of that type of enclosure. Most speakers that are designed to work close to a wall will have limited bass extension and output because the placement will naturally extend both these characteristics.
BAFFLE STEP LOSS:
High frequencies are directional (1/2 space) and low frequencies are omni-directional (full space). At some point the is a transition between the two. At the frequency point when a speaker transitions from 1/2 space to full space there is a typical 6dB loss in output. This is normally compensated for in the crossover design but the transitional frequency is determined by the size of the front baffle. To lower this transitional point most speakers that are designed to work close to a wall will have a greater width and shallower depth that you would ordinarily expect. The ProAc Tablettes are a perfect example.
My shortlist for speakers designed for close to wall placement would be the ProAc Tablettes, the Harbeth P3ESR and the Falcon LS3/5A. I hope this helps. Good luck 😉👍
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Hi Tarun. Thank you very much for the clear and thorough explanations. So I guess sealed boxes with their tendency to faster bass response is better armed against the blurring of the bass that the close-wall position necessarily entails. In the spirit of almost Christmas, allow me one more question:
Does placing rows of books up against the side-panels of the speaker further hinder the bass boosting? And is that in general a good idea for bookshelf-positioned speakers, or does that have other detrimental side-effects?
Thank you again, and for your suggested speakers, which I will dive into! I also have the cast iron JERN-speakers from my neighborhood on my list.
@@earkivaren Ideally you don’t want to place anything between or adjacent to the speakers. I am just going to amend my advice here on thought. If you are placing books between the speakers or next to them. I would run them the whole length between the speakers with no gaps and running flush with the speakers. Effectively extending the front baffle into a pseudo infinite baffle arrangement. That will minimise time smearing and could work quite well. The books will also provide some absorption of low frequencies but this may be hard to predict. Give it a go and let me know how you get on. 😊
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Thank you Tarun! I read your earlier edition of the comment, and was just about to describe how I wanted to use the books to try to extend the front baffle. I'll report back on the results when I get around to selecting some speakers. Keep up the excellent work!
totally agree that no review is complete w/o a comparison against it's peers
Thank you Gilbert 👍
I'm looking at making my own speakers from a kit supplied by Wilmslow Audio. They appear to use well regarded high quantity drivers and their designs seem to be copies of classic designs with high quality crossover components.. have a background in cabinet making .. my question is, are these kits a good value proposition ... and assuming I can listen to a samlpe before
.... Before ordering..
I haven’t looked into them I’m afraid. Maybe someone else can help who reads this 😉
Thank you for the tips. Your first one though left me scratching my head. You basically left me with more questions than answers, if I'm honest. How am I supposed to figure out what the Transitional Frequency of my room is? How do I actually go about doing that? And then how can I tell if a particular set of speakers is suitable for the Transitional Frequency of my room? I have many more, but If you can address these, then I might be able to figure out the rest on my own. Thank you in advance.
You Google how to figure it out. Just like anything else nowadays.
Hi Khalid, you can always measure it but it is not a specific frequency as much as a region where the peaks and dips even out somewhere around 250Hz. I wouldn’t be too concerned about it. The more important point to understand was that overloading a small room with bass will make the peaks and dips more noticeable. Best to exercise and bit of judgement when selecting the size of speaker and its bass response to work well in your room. Thank you for watching and commenting 😉
One thing people need to understand is impedance. Many people have no idea what this is, and what it means for the type of amp you need. For example, I have seen people try to dive a pair of Toten Hawks with an AVR. That is just flat out nuts, not to mention a waste of money. Matching the amp to whatever speaker you choose is vital.
Thank you for watching and sharing エリック 😊
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Tarun, don't know if you are a fan or not but, Creek just introduced a new integrated that sells for almost $8,000 US. Wow! I still have a creek Destiny! Check it out!
Thank is interesting エリック . I have spoken to Creek about their new line. Watch this space... 😉
BTW, just saw that comments on the IOTAVX video disabled? I have both the amps and wanted comment on my experience
Sorry, back on now. They had been disabled by RUclips because I had selected suitable for kids when using their new uploading interface. Thank you for letting me know 😉👍
Tarun, I was wondering if you could comment on in-wall speakers vs floorstanding. I am about to move into a new apartment and I potentially have a choice of getting KEF in-wall Reference or Floorstanding R11s. The references series are about 25% cheaper if you get in-walls vs equivalent floorstanders. The salesperson says there are no real drawbacks in terms of sound quality and he even says due to the way things are constructed, it won't cause the wall to rattle. Would love to get your opinion on this
Hi Richard, I would stay clear of the in wall speakers unless you have no choice due to space. I have never heard any in wall set up that produced a convincing three dimensional sound stage with decent imaging. I would go with the R11s all day long. 😊
Interesting perspective and sound logic but I’m bent on finding speakers to suit low output valve amp ideally 90dB sensitivity +. Been looking at pre 70’s second hand and pimping up the crossover
Cool 😎 please let me know how you get on 😊
Off topic...can you tell me how (or what) you use to caption your videos? I have to do some for work and yours always come out so clear and clean-thanks
Hi Paul, I have only basic video editing skills. I am just using the Titles available in IMovie 😉
Sound advice (excuse the pun) again tarun,
I long for the day I can have my own listening room 😫 for now I’ve resorted to 🎧 but may soon be the owner of magnepan LRS. You’re absolutely right about getting the right speakers for your room it’s hard enough getting the missus to accept the sphagetti junction of wires & box count let alone a big pair of speakers but sound deadening panels 😱 more likely a divorce or banished to the shed 🤪
I think I will be following in the shed with all the boxes arriving for review these days 🤔
Looking at Focal aria 906s right now. But am open for suggestions. I'm recently playing Triangle Bro3, and Epos Epic 2s. I have enjoyed both of these.
All good brands Scott. It should come down to your own personal taste 😊
Any thoughts on speaker port plugs and treating bass nulls in rooms?
They will certainly reduce the bass energy but change the tonal balance of the speaker. It is a bit like putting a sticky plaster on a gunshot wound. If you need to do it then there is a more fundamental problem that need to be addressed.
Hi Tarun, I am in a dilemma for my speaker. Need your help in this. I prefer neutral sound and these are the three speakers that I am kind of zeroing down. What will be your recommendation? I know it is hard and may be subjective but if you were to pick up one which one will you go for. 1. Cambridge Audio SX60 2. Elac Debut 6.2 3. Q Acoustics 3020 (not 3020i). My Set up is Rotel A10 + Topping E30 DAC + Allo Digi One Signature + Raspberry Pi + Volumio. Cheers, Tiken M
Hi Tiken, all good speakers for the money. Ideally you should audition all three as it is really a matter of personal taste. However, the Rotel can be a little on the bright side so I would personally go with the Elac Debut 6.2 to balance them out.
Hi Tarun, Thank you very much for your inputs. Really appreciate. I will keep you posted on how it goes. Thanks for taking the time to listen and provide your valuable insights. Cheers, Tiken M
Please do. Thank you Tiken 😉
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Hi Tarun, I got my ELAC Speaker today and I have set up my system. My set up is Raspberry Pi 3B+ + Allo DigiOne Signature + Topping E30 + Topping D50 Linear Power Supply + ELAC Debut 6.2 + Rotel A10. My test audio sample is ruclips.net/video/5FlJYPBTyqU/видео.html and I need to hear the attack of the snare drum (not so much of bass and not so sharp also but with a punch with the right level) in the beginning song. Oh! my. It was a pleasure hearing the details. Thank you very much for all the inputs. It will be a while before i upgrade my system now. In the meantime I will be watching your space and reviews from my next upgrades. Thanks and keep doing the good work. Cheers!
For me it's a big problem to find warm sounding bookshelves in 250 - 350 euros range. All of them that I've heard ( Dali, Q Accoustics, etc) a too bright for my taste with too much sibilant especially on vocals. Could you recommend a pair of warm sounding bookshelves for a 16sq/m room ? Maybe from the second hand market?
Elac would be worth looking at 😊
I like to buy speakers made by a dedicated speaker manufacturer. So I currently own large Tannoy floorstanders. They are in a small room with an additional Tannoy 300W sub. I sit about 6ft away from them. No bloom or reflection due to carpets, big soft sofas, small corner bass trap and acoustic panels on walls. I would never contemplate anything other than big floorstanders for my tastes. Just build your room around them...
Cool! I think many Tannoys tend to be high efficiency designs which means you can go for a larger speaker in a smaller room due to the lower bass output. Thank you for watching and sharing 😉
I’m also happy with my Tannoy speakers, a pair of DC8Ts.
Another excellent video.
Thank you Cruzing RSX 😉👍
Excellent presentation. (Autofocus seems confused as to which of you is the presenter.)
I blame the teddy 😂
What would your advice be for someone with a small room (with solid brick walls) who listens to music where the bass extension and clarity is more important than any other aspects of the sound? Is it possible or do I need to move house?
Tricky but not impossible Dan. Requires careful choice of speaker, listening position and speaker positioning. DSP and room treatment will help. Two small subs is the way to go. Going from two bass sources to four will help even the bass out in a small room and will give you more scope for adjustment. Good luck 🤞
Excellent information!
Thank you Jay 😉
Anyone recommend a good speaker to replace/ upgrade my Monitor Audio Bronze BX2. Hooked up to a Rega Brio amp
Tarun, is there any universal designation for speaker that are designed to be placed closer to the wall? Cause these days kids working in hi-fi stores are nothing but a spec readers.
Thank you
Not a universal designation but some speakers as designed to work in close to wall applications. It is all about tuning the bass response. Examples, ProAc Tablettes, Neat Iota Alpha, Larson speakers 😉
As Tarren (Hope that's spelt correctly) says 200-300hz is where problems start.. The 'WOW' boomy bass resonance frequency occurs at these levels i found a sub positioned correctly nullifies that problem.
It as been spelt it as I sounds cp070476 😊. It is spelt Tarun. Subwoofers can be considered active bass management. One good, two even better. I can only accolade one downstairs. The more bass producing devices you have in a room set up correctly, the more even you can get the bass in the room.
So it's better to leave room's door opened while listening to music? To reduce (avoid) bass compression?
That can bring its own acoustic problems. Best to get the speaker choice right in the first place 😉