Private Auras: Is Blizzard's New Anti-WeakAura Tech Good?
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- Опубликовано: 24 авг 2024
- Learn more about how the tech works here: www.wowhead.co...
My Mythic Echo of Neltharion guide comes out the day after this video and can explain further how we handle the Volcanic Heart mechanic.
Check out my stream at / dratnos
I hope that at blizzard any time a dratnos feedback video comes out, they call an emergency staff meeting to watch and discuss it.
Keep dreaming 😄 haha
That would be hilarious but also kinda cute lmao but yeah I kinda doubt it but I still like to imagine that’s what’s going down 😂😂😂
They'll probably put his "available loot" to the "extremely naughty"-setting ;)
What is not known already to discuss about it? They designed it in the first place
@@hotchrisbfriesThe player-side reaction to it.
I'm pretty sure that anything in a private aura can be worked around by just making a weakaura that triggers off a button press. Then you just press the button corresponding to the private aura you just got.
Like with volcanic hearts, if addons couldn't interact with that thing at all, all you would have to do is make an assignment weakaura that triggers on a button press. Once 5 people press the button, it assigns them. So everyone has a key bound to trigger the aura, hearts go out, people with the heart press the button, they get their position assigned. Arguably not even slower than looking at the list and seeing which number you are.
I really don't mind the tech, it's good for the game. I think it's better than them just yolo blasting Weakauras into the ground completely.
I think the super-precise "find the magic pixel safe spot" mechanics are best saved for FF14 (and FF14 should save heavy rot damage mechanics for WoW). 3 Volcanic Heart on mythic would be fine (nothing wrong with a big GTFO mechanic, even in a very enclosed space), but 5 is just absurd.
Biggest takeaway here is that when private aura-ing a mechanic, give it a proper time bofore expiring or make it somewhat forgiving somehow. I think jailer bombs could have been done manually if you were given 5-6 seconds extra time. Which is why Anduin felt doable without a WA, just roughly pre-determined positions and a forgiving timer for the mechanic is all it takes for it to not be same as volcanic heart atm.
Blizzard freaking loves to do black on black, red on red, and so on for mechanics say bubbles in my mind should never get blocked by private auras. I think there is also something to be said about having uniform visual information across all fights which say bubbles give is a good thing but not sure exactly how to express this.
i like the idea of not having weakauras play the game for you. i agree with the type of mechanic being very relevant here. however, i absolutely hate not being able to tie more visually clear say bubbles or audio alerts to an mechanic if i got it. its just very bad from an accessibillity standpoint
It kind of feels like the intended use of the mechanics was to have the Rushing Darkness people break open walls intentionally in perhaps 2 different directions so that the Heart players COULD just naturally react and run away with them. In fact, if those circles on the Heart players were lets say 2 yds bigger in diameter across, and you had 3 extra seconds to take them out, it would entirely change the way that we play the fight. As it is right now this extremely restrictive space denial way to play it is just a result of that being 1) possible, and 2) the damage being too high from walls breaking to remain safe. Some small tuning adjustments could have completely changed how we feel about this mechanic and it being hidden entirely.
Even that would not work on mythic with how much room gets denied in p1 by the expanding fissures, but yeah I think that was maybe the thought process
its a bit tight, but i'd rather have them iterate on making the mechanic solvable without WA and adjust it as needed in that direction rather then tune the raid towards required addons
Very good take on this. Hoping the devs listen!
I’d love to see blizzard devs doing some of these fights
Guarantee the overwhelming majority can’t.
@@Alakazamm Yeah because majority of people can't engage with this content. Some devs can though and they mythic raid and push high keys, but the community still finds a reason to hate them anyways.
The game director Ion Hazzikostas does in fact raid mythic. He has an Orc shaman named Gurgthock or something like that, and even has scarab lord title. However i do also believe they are very late on getting cutting edge every tier killing the bosses after couple nerfs. They could definetly just have the tuning be way more lenient or just tone down on insane mechanics, that require these weakauras
The issue isn't difficult or complicated mechanics, it's mechanics that require several randomly selected people to come to some consensus within seconds of knowing that this is an action they even need to take. Reaching that consensus (who will go where), which depends on all involved incorporating data from their respective surroundings and analyzing all solutions, and picking the optimal one, results in death if they make the wrong choice.
The challenge in these mechanics is not the gameplay. The gameplay solution is simple. The challenge is in the communication required to know the solution.
I think a good example of a seemingly complex mechanic that involved several random people chosen that DID NOT need a WA to be completed was the beams and orb mechanic on Darkvein in Nathria. With only a few simple rules that all players could agree to follow, the chosen players could all independently arrive at the same solution using only the visual information presented on their screen. It was essentially a puzzle: how do you put a line through all orbs with the constraint of each player moving only the shortest distance necessary? Puzzles can be solved with simple rules, and if everyone follows those rules, they all come to the same solution.
The issue other mechanics have is the necessary information is NOT easily distinguished. If you need 5 players to all be 25 yards apart, but 3 of the chosen players are stacked on each other, there's no deterministic rule that those 3 players can follow to ensure they all choose a different direction to run.
The entire point of Private Auras is for mechanics to not be mindlessly solved for you with a weak aura because it trivializes the mechanic. You now have a situation where you are forced to rely AND have an addon to play the game. Sure the private auras may not be implemented well but it's a step in the right direction to make us less reliant on an addon to play the game properly. I hope they iterate on this and make it better. Private Aura mechanics that are more forgiving but intuitive to workaround/solve without use of addons.
I think i blizz is going to go forward with this hidden aura tech they have two options in how to proceed. The worse but much easier option is to just give players more time.
My suggested option is that they have "hidden markers" that addons cant interact with which are just the numbers 1-x where x is the number of things that are out. This solves both the mechanical ambiguity (how do we determine who does what), and the say bubble problem. But also resuces the need for addons because now and auto markers on players are mostly unnecessary.
Implementing the private aura tech on Echo of Nelth seems like a weird choice since it's a kind of strangely strung together fight after the removal of the "class call" mechanics and line of sighting from PTR testing. As others have pointed out I am sure the original intention was that we just break more walls for much more space for the Heart explosions which would make sense given how the fight worked on PTR. Obviously with how it is tuned now you can't "just break walls 4head" so pretty strange overall.
Wow, who would have guessed they would fail to improve the visuals of the important mechanics gaurenteeing that we still need add-ons, while failing to use the private auras in a meaningful way.
i also think it would be really interesting if there were things like, 'touch your debuff to the pillar, but each debuff is a different color and you have to do it in ROYGBIV order' or simple math-matching like those weird facebook memes that were like 'hamburger+hamburger=fries, fries+hamburger=???'
brain teasing things that force you to stop and change focus just long enough that a ground swirls might sneak up on you
not gonna lie, calling out 1-5 on the echo of neltharion mechanic would be kinda interesting.
it instantly reminded me of raiding in destiny/destiny 2 where callouts like that are commonplace and make the encounters feel more like a group effort.
Shouldnt be mechanics in the game that require an addon to get the mechanic done.
Another example of something that did get solved with weakauras but would have been more fun (I think) as a private aura is the Nighthunter mechanic on Prototype Pantheon.
Was that a mythic mechanic? I only recall those on Daddy D.
@@user-qh9qq8uj1p Yeah, Pantheon specifically reintroduced Night Hunters to the fight on Mythic, and you basically needed them to break these shields that were on the adds you'd need to kill and the seeds you'd need to heal.
It worked like the original Sire mechanic in nearly every way, though.
@@user-qh9qq8uj1p Yes, the only new mechanic in Mythic actually, and quite a bit more involved than on Sire.
Entirely what the GOAL of making private auras is....i assume the GOAL is to get more people into raiding which means flat out the encounters need to be easier. Weakauras make difficult mechanics trivial and the need to make even more difficult mechanics to battle it?
I guarantee you there are more spots to go to in that room. There is no way that blizzard expected that precise placement in the phases.....there has to be a different way.
Mechanics that require this much precision are never very fun, and definitely not when it's a private aura. Nothing better than wiping because a low mobility class took an extra half second to realize their position. Only way to make it fun is to lengthen the timer so you can react mentally without a WA.
So they could have given everyone in the party a private aura and only 5 have volcanic heart to disable this workaround right?
people need to pick a lane. The tier is either to easy, or blizzard shouldn't ban weakaura from certain mechanics.
Can you please tell me how to show volcanic heart on raid frames?
I personally wouldnt mind if they tuned content a tad bit easier and blocked all WAs, possibly even dbm
Can't you just set this up so if you get the circle you just press a macro that sends the info via addon messages to weakauras so it knows who has them? I don't think private auras are very hard to get around... It would still be faster than looking at that raid frame list and calculating yourself...
I dont think the intention was to have the raid stack on a small sliver of space. But rather break walls and get more space. I still think you can do this without weakaura. But since this game largely is a follow John game, this wont happen.
yeah break the wall that respawns and does huge raid damage, only LFR raiders can have such genius raid strats
@@Freestyle80 I don't see why it couldn't be tuned down? Being able to break walls, a core mechanic of the fight, to handle the bombs seems like something they can do.
@@Freestyle80 Well no shit that's not going to work right now, but clearly what Majd was saying is the intended way to do the fight. That just comes to a tuning failure on Blizzard's end if the only sensible way to kill the boss is to play in an unintended way. Reduce wall damage by 50% or something and it becomes a non issue. Still don't want to stack too many over the fight because it can be dangerous, but gives you room to work with (literally)
Breaking 2-3 walls on even Heroic is pushing lethal rot damage, and the walls respawn fairly quickly. Both the intended (break two walls and spread Volcanic Heart way out) and unintended (break 1 and find the magic pixel) suck. Take 1-2 bombs out of the equation and you have a perfectly fine boss mechanic (GTFO with the bombs in different directions), and you don't have to script out the entire damn encounter.
@@tribert1 that clearly was not intended at all so i dunno wtf you talking about, Blizzard even changed it from a LOS mechanic because it was stupid
is ticketmaster really advertising on streams?
I'm not going to lie, I have a hard time seeing the huge difference between the mechanics can someone explain? (I didn't play SL)
More time and you needed to connect with far smaller circle making it way easier to solve with preassigned plan.
I'm all for challenging content - but this seems insanely and needlessly annoying. Can guilds do this without assistance?
the volcanic heart mechanic? not really you can't yolo the placements since even with the proper placements the group has like a couple of yards at best and later on in the fights the space just gets smaller and smaller. the only proper which would allow people to not have to have to resort to this and just handle it like regular people would be to decrease the size of it or allow wall breaking to not be as punishing so people can run out bombs outside of the first room. Normal and heroic is fine and can be yolo'd but mythic is a big nope
if you call Aberrus challenging, LOL
@@Freestyle80 raids free on normal, heroic and the earlier parts of mythic if people know whats goin on fights aint hard. Mythic rashok going forward is where it gets starts to actually get hard except magmorax maybe
@@Zwow007 this is ltierally nothing compared to anything that has been released since Emerald Nightware, heck if you raided HFC Mythic and you do this you are laughing all the way to the bank
look at the amount of space remaining after theyre fully spread
That looks like mechanic from ff14 and how it's being dealt with
Weakauras (and even addons) have always had the goal of removing tedium. From Vanilla (classic will never be vanilla) and the ability of addons to actually move your character to make running (no mount) between towns less tedious to Professor Putricide where we had an amazing addon that displayed a circle on your character showing exactly what the range was, and it had a radar sweep on that circle for a timer. Blizzard's response: Remove those parts of the API that made those possible. What a travesty. The pass-the-disease wasn't fun (or especially difficult) either. Blizzard, stop ruining cool things.
See, I think Private Auras are fine in theory. But the instant you have a mechanic as complex, positioning-dependent, and punishing as the Jailer Bombs or Raszageth P1 charges become a Private Aura, you've got an issue.
I think mechanics like Volcanic Heart (well, the Mythic version specifically) being Private Auras is the exact sort of worst-case scenario everyone was scared of when Private Auras were first datamined. I think Mythic Echo of Nelth is a solid fight and I'm looking forward to the day we can get there ourselves, but I'm dreading a far less coordinated, late-tier CE guild like mine having to deal with a mechanic this complex.
Raz p1 charges did not need a wa at all. My guild found much more success with our p1 prog when we abandoned it.
i think when a mechanic needs you to be pin point exact and accurate with the placement of something and are given little to no reaction time is when weakauras come in to solve the problem; since you as a player has 0 room for errors or flexibility in placement. Legit reminds me of the time my guild was progging mythic xanesh in BFA and everyone downloaded the xanesh soccer practice addon to make sure no one messes stuff up during raid night
The biggest problem is, does blizzard actually plan bosses and mechanics with things like weakaura / dbm in mind? If yes, they should make things like that baseline since I know a lot of people who never use one or the other. I always thought that the majority of bosses would be able without any addons, but sure they are much easier using them. In the higher levels those addons become a necessacity for many bosses... So blizzard, which one is it?
how many of those people that don't use weakauras have/are/aspire to progress(ed) 8th boss in the raid on mythic? No WA is required below mythic this tier
@@narvoxx you're not wrong there. But on the one hand blizzard wants more people to see that content on the other hand they send requirements for other add-ons to be used
that's a lot of youtube notifications ._.
I also think they misused it. Which will mean they'll misuse it everywhere the coming tiers for sure. What a stupid idea... Almost as stupid as Timegating tier for more than a week after RTWF for non-raiders.
Can they please already hire you for raid encounter design? 🤣
But but what would Ion do with his sadistic streak?
Could also just private aura a mechanic for the first 2 or 3 weeks. Leaving it up hurts PuGs.
I mean I don't really think people will be pugging the 2nd to last boss on mythic and the private aura is fine as long as mechanics aren't so punishing that players have 0 freedom in how they react and counter it. Like nelth on normal and heroic is free af if your group knows what to do since you have some leeway for bomb placements and etc.
This mechanic is just...annoying and sad at the same time. If you are not in a decent guild, you know you are going to spend 3 raid nights just trying to progress the same mechanic in every single of of it's iterations inside the fight and this time around you realy got 0 margin of error. I doupt this will remain unchanged, I give it a month tops.
Weakaura have been TOO powerful for SOO long! ..
I know people say "duh, it's a only a tracking addon, does nothing to play the game for you!?"
But the most valuable thing in this world, is information!
Lol some of your guildies have great names
Great video! Hopefully they create private private auras so no one knows who has the mechanic!
So, they need to disallow weakaura popping up full images in game, as well maybe better control how private auras can be displayed on raid frames if they're not going to be interacted with/dispelled by anyone else.
As for Volcanic Heart, the entire argument disappears if it was just 4 circles, or if they were smaller, maybe even if breaking walls was less punishing. The problem with that mechanic is there regardless of private auras tho.
Not to mention the lag due to so much addon activity
no
addon's dont cause lag.
yea my 2 biggest frustrations with blizz mechanics that pretty often tend to be the case are 1) how difficult they are to see, as if the devs intentionally dont want people to be able to see the edges, ranges, or anything at all, and 2) how demanding/specific some of them are, which imo ends up making the effects, in those cases, come across as broken, buggy, or unintuitive instead, because for example if you have to stand behind something at a certain angle and you still get killed, you're thinking, what? i did what i was supposed to do. but i died anyway??
and so the audience mostly never understands that blizzard wants you to play like a robot. for all we know, they TEST the encounters with bots, instead of actually playing themselves, which is why a lot of really specific mechanics like this often get nerfed, we're all familiar by now with as week 2 or 3 or 4 of a raid goes by, the nerfs keep rolling in, like they did with vault of incarnates, and like they have done with virtually every raid for the past couple of years. and they get nerfed because ordinary people complain. because we aren't robots.
we're just people who are trying to have fun.
so basically what you're saying in 13 minutes is that the game has bad mechanics.. not the tech around it is trying to solve the games mechanics lmao
Wouldn’t the MASSIVE ORANGE CIRCLE let you know how far to go? I’m confused why do you need a weak aura for everything?
I doubt it's intentional, but it really feels like Blizzard is specifically adding mechanics to filter out people with a particular subset of executive dysfunction. These mechanics are also often greatly disliked by most people and usually constitute a crass departure from the core game loop. Why?
WoW is completely fine without trying to be a hidden object jump 'n run game.
I wish people would just learn to clear content without the crutch of mods 8)
I just want them to stop doing these kind of mechanics because they've become too frequently used. It's just not fun. Same with all the dance-dance revolution-esque mechanics. They're too same-y and as a result feel lazily tacked on to fights in many cases.
How do I join poptart corndoG?
Git gud
I’m decent
tldr: blizzard is trash at designing good mechanics.
unfortunately nothing new
mechanics like these give me a headache. Im glad i stopped pushing mythic raids back in BFA.
bro same xanesh really just made me tap out lol, fuck that soccer ball boss
It looks worse than it is… it’s not that bad though once you actually do it
@@Gunship888 on normal and heroic its free af this is the current wall my guilds stuck at for mythic, we've been trying to yolo spots but were thinking about just doing the list bs to keep some sanity
Next mechanic should be:
Guess the number between 1 and 1000000 or you'll wipe. Come on! How can you handle this dogshit without weakaura?
This is interesting discussion i genuinely believe the statement WoW would be better if mechanics and encounters didnt have to cater to weakauras and weakauras were just flat out banned similar to FF14 but i as a person HATE the idea of relying solely on wow devs to make visually understandable mechanics althought its better recently this shit ALWAYS has to be iterated on after its released nothings ever great out of the gate.
Maybe the game is just too entrenched in weakauras now =S
Personally, I feel they are inventing ways to counteract boosting. Where a 'boosted' character can't just stand idly by and get loot. If they do not understand the mechanic, they could wipe the raid.
This. I raided FFXIV savage and boosting just isn't possible because if one of your raiders doesn't know every mech it will wipe every time.
just have them get meleed by the boss and they never have to deal with it
Not even close, nothing can stop boosting aside from an insanely tuned boss
@@thickums8198 so your FF14 raiders are just crap, you can still boost in this raid easily
@@Freestyle80 you obviously didn't grasp my comment's meaning but okay
I think they need to do WAY MORE private auras but make them simpler mechanics. The use of addons are just so atrocious and sure it's fun to see mechanics and follow them but I think they try so hard they force addons and weak auras as a requirement. There has got to be a way to make it not required and allowed at the same time. Complex fights can be great but there is a certain limit where it just becomes like WHY? Hopefully they'll learn from this raid and actually make the next one even better. I felt this raid had a lot of great mechanics and some bosses felt a bit meh...we all know the one that was the worst....
I have no idea of a single private aura ability in the raid, so I really couldn't care less
who
Wut
yea this is giga cringe. just design a better fight...too much of this coggy overload bs recently
Would be nice to see guild in race to world first do it with no weak auras allowed.
There are so many mechanics these days that it’s ridiculous and the game can’t even handle them most of the time without lagging. I have a 3080 with an i9 and 32 gb ram. I shouldn’t be lagging in raids as often as I do just because there are so many animations going off.
Yeah I noticed I’ve been getting frame rate stuttering this raid, and even in halls of infusion on the titan boss when he sends out lightning swirlies on the ground my rates go down to like 10fps… brand new rig, close to top of the line specs… frustrating
Probably because the game still holds together by lua-scrips and an intern on 6 redbull klicking away the error-messages on the server ;)
That's not lag, but okay.
@@hansvdz5834 You know what I meant :p
Cool discussion, but let's keep things in perspective. Blizz didn't intend for you to break almost no walls.
So really the issue with volcanic heart isn't it being a private aura, but rather the players refusing to do the fight as intended. The giant list of names is 100% a player created problem. I respect the topic, but this is players shooting themselves in the foot then blaming blizz for letting them buy a gun.
May I ask how you envision the last 2 hearts of p1 being done, where even a broken wall leads to an entirely covered in lethal fire part of the room? Or the first and fifth hearts of p2, where there are no mechanics available to break walls?
We aren't doing the fight as intended, sure. But that's not b/c it's a super good strat. Because of damage tuning, the fight as intended is literally impossible. Breaking too many walls gets to lethal damage very fast, b/c they are over-tuned, and also the lack of ability to break walls P1, as Dratnos mentioned means in part, it would still have to be done this way in part.
the raid dam from breaking the walls is super high
This is such a good example of what ruins the game, I’m beginning to wonder how good these players are. Every instance in wow is solved through a WA or some kinda of add-on. They should just make all raid boss mechanics private auras, I wonder what type of foolery we are going to see from these min-maxers. 😂
They could just stop adding stupid boss mechanics that require weakauras to begin with