The RetroTink 4K supports PC (VGA) resolutions, including 70hz. This is important for me since I have some old PCs that use VGA 70hz and the resolution switching without losing signals on these old PCs is important. My PC monitor takes a long time to switch resolutions and being able to use these old PCs without losing the signal when switching resolutions is great! You cannot do that with the RetroTink 5x.
Very good coverage, no BS and just straight to the point. In Pixel FX's case IMO they had a terrible launch and poor communication on the upgrade path. Just to clarify I'm not into the digital output modding scene. 1. The promo/launch video is just pure "cringe". They could have collaborated with RetroRGB and My life in gaming(for example), these are the experts you want to hear about the options on the experience. I get that they're excited to reveal the product but the execution and flow just ain't right. 2. The upgrade path is an interesting one. Unfortunately paying for software upgrades isn't everyone's taste. I'm suspecting if they're compensating for the upgrade getting cracked in the long run. IMO people would be happier if there's a middle tier with motion adaptive deinterlacer, which is pretty much a must for 6th gen consoles.(And people who pay for shiny tier will mostly go for the feature anyways.) 3. No side by side comparison, this is the biggest problem. Backwards compatible PS3 owners will want to know if this is the end-all solution for PS2 gaming. But the PS3s weren't built to last with inherent hardware flaws, unless you perform very hardcore mods to mitigate. The is an expensive hardware level mod, it's not plug and play like external upscalers do. OSSC, RT, Framemeister and GBS Control users will want to know the difference when you go digital and how does it perform if you bought the base model to pair with external upscalers.
I agree with the motion adaptive deinterlacer. It is almost mandatory for good video output from a ps2 where most games don't support progressive scan (even with GSM.)
I had only had five minutes to spare but I can't stop watching. Paused the video several times in the first ten minutes to write down the names of hardware. Pure gold.
For me, the selling point of the RT4K is all of the inputs without the fuss. The RT5X looks like a solid option, but I'd still need adapters for a couple of edge cases that I have (Mods with HDMI output like the Wii AVE-HDMI, and VGA), and introducing an adapter can cause its own issues, so the RT4K looks super appealing in that regard.
Heya, flippydrive dev here. So the speed claim is based on a technical impossibility for those devices. The SP2, Memory card, BBA, etc. all use the same bus on the gamecube, called EXI. EXI is a serial bus and maxes out at 27MHz which means you cannot ever achieve greater than 3.4MB/s no matter how fast the device is. The disk interface was designed to burst 13MB/s+ and with something like an ODE, you can average more speed than the theoretical maximum of EXI. In practice EXI is much slower because of the protocol overhead of whatever you're talking to. Newer devices like m.2 loader are faster than SD2SP2 not because of the SSD, but because they have an optimized protocol for communicating over the 3.4MB/s EXI. Once you're above the maybe 2MB/s of a stock drive it doesn't really matter so much, just a neat fact.
@@dubesinhower I don't have a GCLoader to compare with. Your frustration with a lack of benchmarking is also my frustration with a lack of benchmarking. TrevorRudolph is writing up an open source comprehensive speed and latency test disk to gather more data on actual performance of all these methods. I assume GCLoader actually throttles the data to the gamecube as we may need to, simply because most titles were probably not expecting a ~150ms disk seek to return in 0.1ms
The Wii retrogem really excites me for the portable Wii possibilities. The whole problem with the Wii Boy is that you need another Wii to do video out, and you're really just using it as a hard drive at that point. If I could have a Portable Wii that also had HDMI out, I would be all over that.
Selling handicapped hardware that you need to pay extra to fix will always be a terrible idea. If they are making a profit off the capped version of the gem and they are that greedy, just tack on an extra $30 and give us all the real deal from the jump and get rich. I hope china comes in and snatches this and sells their shiny for pennies. Then they can be like the PSIO dev and just drive themselves crazy trying to find ways to stop it.
I actually think the 2 tier option for the Retro GEM is an awesome idea. The way Dan and team decided to tie to license to the hardware is the best way. I love his comment: if you botched an install of a shiny, you could send it back to them, buy a new basic GEM, and they'd transfer the license to the new basic board. That's awesome! I think you're right, they could have just released the shiny edition only as the only model, charge that premium price and this wouldn't be an issue. But they're looking ahead, in the near future significant amount of us may prefer to use an external scaler like a RetroTINK 4K, and they're just making that cheaper option available now.
I don't really like the idea of retro products selling firmware upgrades. I get why it's good for them to take the approach they did, but I'm not seeing anything good here for the customer. I would rather just buy their best version and not ever normalize buying firmware. PixelFX is a good company that I don't believe will abuse this idea, but there are lots of companies that would.
I really think the thing to keep in mind with the Retrogem Base and Shiny editions is it allows for two tiers of product but only one manufacturing process. If they had done something like manufacturing a paired down board that physically lacks the features of the Shiny, then their manufacturing is split into two SKUs. This affects both the availability and the price of both SKUs. Honestly, I think the whole thing is genius. They can produce more units with greater compatibility across multiple consoles at a lower price. A big reason why I have never made the jump to an HDMI mod is the way stock would drop so infrequently, cost at least $200, then sell out immediately.
Curious to see how the image quality of the HDMI mod on PS2 compares to a backwards compatible PS3. Despite being a pure digital signal it's actually less sharp than a PS2 with the Retrotink 5x
@@benozkleenexYes but that's unlikely to improve the image quality of PS2 games considerably as they're still stuck with Sony's outdated 2006 deinterlacing.
There are a few rt4k samples out to RUclips outlets reporting game changing features and visuals…with that being said it seems like the Morph has its hands full just trying to match the rt4k - and if it wants any meaningful sales it will need to have some sort of unique feature or option that makes it a must have device.
implementation of ANY HDMI port requires a valid license from the HDMI org. So cross the fingers there is no lawyer around else you need to license for each year of use ($10.000/year plus per sold item)
The ability to retain analog video output wasn't really covered during the launch of Retro GEM; those of us intending to run consoles into CRTs *and* digital devices consider this important. Not everyone wants to switch over to digital at the cost of abandoning analog (like with previous OG Xbox mods).
I agree, on one hand, nothing stopping you from outputting digital and relying on a scaler to convert that to analog, on the other hand, I think I'd prefer to just have native analog out but with scaling/filtering/etc options. Of course, its been 20 years since the death of analog in most instances, finding parts to make products is getting difficult.
I "may" got for Pixel FX's base model, then upgrade at home. If you're in Canada and you order from the US, the more expensive the product, the more duties you pay.
I thought the PixelFX approach with the GEM was bad at first, but I completely understand why they did what they did and that it really makes sense. The trend is very clearly moving towards where you get your simple kit to get HDMI out from the console only, and then use the newest, most capable upscaler filter generator device that you'd like. But if you really prefer to mod everything to be "stand-alone" and not need to be connected to several devices to get you going its still going to be possible but at a premium (which is the case currently regardless). Based on how much trouble PixelFX was having just keeping instock their own newly produced products, they clearly and smartly foresaw a need to quickly changed how they were going to continue when they were stuck not able to even sell what they worked so hard to make already. It's good. I like it. I do worry about if the Wii is going to need a differently arranged GEM board to fit or if it can be external maybe in the Wii OEM Stand or similar? And how the GEM for Xbox is going to be competitive with the XBOXHD+ (which I personally have held off on hoping to see what PixelFX offers before choosing).
I feel uncomfortable with the firmware thing, and while I could put out a mahoosive comment about those concerns, it'd be incoherent and wordy, and lord knows, it'll be long enough already. There's so many issues inherent to licensing anything, and while this does make the product cheaper for those who just want hdmi out, those concerns with licensing can't be hand waved away and will inevitably cause pain for someone at some point. Pixelfx had issues with stock with the old system, and now they want to add licensing and support for said licensing on top? No thanks, I've waited well over a year for the ps1digital to come back in stock and it never happened, and now this? I think I'll wait for alternatives instead. Sorry pixelfx, I hope it works out for you, but I'm afraid I'll have to pass on this one :(
I'm hoping for either a solid black Famicom shell before I go that route. Or waiting for a AVFamicom solid black shell. There is very little desire in me to have the whole massive shell of the NES for real hardware.
People have been asking for more basic HDMI mods, so there you go. People who want the deluxe treatment can get it too. Everybody wins! Thanks for all these details. Oh, and I totally don't need that Retro-Bit controller (I have 8bitdo's N30 2.4g wireless controllers) but for 25 bucks it seems enticing.
Me personally, i have no desire for either retro gem. If you have like 1 or 2 consoles that you really love and want to upgrade to hdmi, that would be feasible. But those of us that have many, it would be very costly to upgrade all of them. I get that it is a pure digital to digital signal, but for 200 bucks how much better could it actually be than using HD retrovosion cables into a Rt4k. Spending all of that dough for just a slightly better signal doesn't make sense to me. The hardware also has its limitations. Like the n64 can only look so good. Plus that commercial was just awful. But hey they must have done something right because I heard they sold out. Maybe I'm the only one that doesn't get it lol.
9:35 Hopefully you checked the manufacturing date on the PSU, Sony recalled some from August to December of 2004. Coury mentioned that in a pinned comment on the @mylifeingaming video!
What exactly are people upset about? They have two separate products using software instead of hardware to unlock the features of the premium product? Is it because the extra features are not hardware? I don't understand how anyone could be upset about that. What am I missing?
Arguably the most informative retro gaming channel around. I have ordered a basic Retro Gem model. The price point is perfect for me and I will up grade to the shiny by the time it arrives. If motion adaptive deinterlacing was included in the basic version I would have probably stuck with that. Currently I use an Insurrection scart into a GBS-C and then through an Mclassic for some lovely results. I completely understand PixelFx's desicion to price the Retro Gem the way they did as I am living proof of there strategy.
23:41 what is happening with Terraonion? I honestly have no idea, but I'm curious because I've bought the MODE in the past and recently became interested in their MegaSD.
Wait… the MegaSwitch will be available in the West?! All this time I thought he was Russian and it would be subject to sanctions. Impressed to see that he’s been doing all this from Ukraine, like SRG320. Awesome!
I am familiar with modding for PS1 and PS2, and some of the stuff you said was incorrect as far as I can tell just an FYI. Not that it's all that important. So just briefly so you understand, Free McBoot is when you use the memory card as a boot device. So it is very unlikely that the Memcard pro will ever do both booting and saving games at the same time because of the way the storage is formatted for each function. Imagine you booted into windows form your SSD and then while running your game you unplug your SSD and plug it back in but now reformatted as an external storage device. Would that make any sense?
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. The Nintendo Switch Online, NES controllers, WORK with the 8bitdo wireless receivers. I don't know how much more "stock looking" wireless controllers you can get. Besides the ones actually made by Nintendo themselves geezz....
Good point. I think having some kind of scaler is necessary for having a frustration-free experience on an LCD, and it’s up to your budget if you can get something like the 5X vs the 2X
The RetroTink 4K supports PC (VGA) resolutions, including 70hz. This is important for me since I have some old PCs that use VGA 70hz and the resolution switching without losing signals on these old PCs is important. My PC monitor takes a long time to switch resolutions and being able to use these old PCs without losing the signal when switching resolutions is great! You cannot do that with the RetroTink 5x.
Love your hardware update videos. This is really the best place on RUclips for hardware modders to keep up to date on the latest products.
Thanks for watching, means a lot!
Very good coverage, no BS and just straight to the point. In Pixel FX's case IMO they had a terrible launch and poor communication on the upgrade path. Just to clarify I'm not into the digital output modding scene.
1. The promo/launch video is just pure "cringe".
They could have collaborated with RetroRGB and My life in gaming(for example), these are the experts you want to hear about the options on the experience. I get that they're excited to reveal the product but the execution and flow just ain't right.
2. The upgrade path is an interesting one. Unfortunately paying for software upgrades isn't everyone's taste.
I'm suspecting if they're compensating for the upgrade getting cracked in the long run. IMO people would be happier if there's a middle tier with motion adaptive deinterlacer, which is pretty much a must for 6th gen consoles.(And people who pay for shiny tier will mostly go for the feature anyways.)
3. No side by side comparison, this is the biggest problem.
Backwards compatible PS3 owners will want to know if this is the end-all solution for PS2 gaming. But the PS3s weren't built to last with inherent hardware flaws, unless you perform very hardcore mods to mitigate.
The is an expensive hardware level mod, it's not plug and play like external upscalers do. OSSC, RT, Framemeister and GBS Control users will want to know the difference when you go digital and how does it perform if you bought the base model to pair with external upscalers.
I agree with the motion adaptive deinterlacer. It is almost mandatory for good video output from a ps2 where most games don't support progressive scan (even with GSM.)
I had only had five minutes to spare but I can't stop watching. Paused the video several times in the first ten minutes to write down the names of hardware. Pure gold.
For me, the selling point of the RT4K is all of the inputs without the fuss. The RT5X looks like a solid option, but I'd still need adapters for a couple of edge cases that I have (Mods with HDMI output like the Wii AVE-HDMI, and VGA), and introducing an adapter can cause its own issues, so the RT4K looks super appealing in that regard.
I got an ossc and couldnt wrap my mind around it. Sold it and got a RT5X. Shit works.
Heya, flippydrive dev here. So the speed claim is based on a technical impossibility for those devices. The SP2, Memory card, BBA, etc. all use the same bus on the gamecube, called EXI. EXI is a serial bus and maxes out at 27MHz which means you cannot ever achieve greater than 3.4MB/s no matter how fast the device is. The disk interface was designed to burst 13MB/s+ and with something like an ODE, you can average more speed than the theoretical maximum of EXI. In practice EXI is much slower because of the protocol overhead of whatever you're talking to. Newer devices like m.2 loader are faster than SD2SP2 not because of the SSD, but because they have an optimized protocol for communicating over the 3.4MB/s EXI. Once you're above the maybe 2MB/s of a stock drive it doesn't really matter so much, just a neat fact.
Interesting, so in theory FlippyBoot would be just as fast as GCLoader
@@dubesinhower I don't have a GCLoader to compare with. Your frustration with a lack of benchmarking is also my frustration with a lack of benchmarking. TrevorRudolph is writing up an open source comprehensive speed and latency test disk to gather more data on actual performance of all these methods. I assume GCLoader actually throttles the data to the gamecube as we may need to, simply because most titles were probably not expecting a ~150ms disk seek to return in 0.1ms
The 8bitdo pcb kit for the OEM Nintendo controllers are fantastic. The SEGA kit is quality also.
The Wii retrogem really excites me for the portable Wii possibilities. The whole problem with the Wii Boy is that you need another Wii to do video out, and you're really just using it as a hard drive at that point.
If I could have a Portable Wii that also had HDMI out, I would be all over that.
HDMI mods for the wii have been a thing for a while. They are a bit tricky to install, but in the end they are wiring the AVR-RVL to a gcvideo.
Yaghhhh guys a pay wall is a great idea, swallow it all on down.
Selling handicapped hardware that you need to pay extra to fix will always be a terrible idea. If they are making a profit off the capped version of the gem and they are that greedy, just tack on an extra $30 and give us all the real deal from the jump and get rich. I hope china comes in and snatches this and sells their shiny for pennies. Then they can be like the PSIO dev and just drive themselves crazy trying to find ways to stop it.
Yeah. An extra 90 dollars? They can keep it.
The OG Xbox HDMI is possible without a modchip but it still needs to be tricked into thinking an av cable is plugged in the back
YES! Thanks Dubes! I always look forward to these!
I actually think the 2 tier option for the Retro GEM is an awesome idea. The way Dan and team decided to tie to license to the hardware is the best way. I love his comment: if you botched an install of a shiny, you could send it back to them, buy a new basic GEM, and they'd transfer the license to the new basic board. That's awesome!
I think you're right, they could have just released the shiny edition only as the only model, charge that premium price and this wouldn't be an issue. But they're looking ahead, in the near future significant amount of us may prefer to use an external scaler like a RetroTINK 4K, and they're just making that cheaper option available now.
I don't really like the idea of retro products selling firmware upgrades. I get why it's good for them to take the approach they did, but I'm not seeing anything good here for the customer. I would rather just buy their best version and not ever normalize buying firmware. PixelFX is a good company that I don't believe will abuse this idea, but there are lots of companies that would.
pay up paypig or make your own mods
The upside is incredibly obvious.
If you don't need any of the more advanced features, you now have an significantly less expensive option.
I really think the thing to keep in mind with the Retrogem Base and Shiny editions is it allows for two tiers of product but only one manufacturing process. If they had done something like manufacturing a paired down board that physically lacks the features of the Shiny, then their manufacturing is split into two SKUs. This affects both the availability and the price of both SKUs. Honestly, I think the whole thing is genius. They can produce more units with greater compatibility across multiple consoles at a lower price. A big reason why I have never made the jump to an HDMI mod is the way stock would drop so infrequently, cost at least $200, then sell out immediately.
What a dumb take. They could sell their full GEM product in one tier for 120 USD which they already sell the basic at a profit for.
@@danielhenderson762 Also a viable option. Good point!
Curious to see how the image quality of the HDMI mod on PS2 compares to a backwards compatible PS3. Despite being a pure digital signal it's actually less sharp than a PS2 with the Retrotink 5x
Now you will be able to put ps3 digital through retrothink 4k.
@@benozkleenexYes but that's unlikely to improve the image quality of PS2 games considerably as they're still stuck with Sony's outdated 2006 deinterlacing.
There are a few rt4k samples out to RUclips outlets reporting game changing features and visuals…with that being said it seems like the Morph has its hands full just trying to match the rt4k - and if it wants any meaningful sales it will need to have some sort of unique feature or option that makes it a must have device.
implementation of ANY HDMI port requires a valid license from the HDMI org. So cross the fingers there is no lawyer around else you need to license for each year of use ($10.000/year plus per sold item)
PS2 hdmi reaction will probably be... People buy up the $99 model and someone makes custom code or releases the firmware update to the public.
hopefully
The ability to retain analog video output wasn't really covered during the launch of Retro GEM; those of us intending to run consoles into CRTs *and* digital devices consider this important. Not everyone wants to switch over to digital at the cost of abandoning analog (like with previous OG Xbox mods).
I agree, on one hand, nothing stopping you from outputting digital and relying on a scaler to convert that to analog, on the other hand, I think I'd prefer to just have native analog out but with scaling/filtering/etc options. Of course, its been 20 years since the death of analog in most instances, finding parts to make products is getting difficult.
I "may" got for Pixel FX's base model, then upgrade at home. If you're in Canada and you order from the US, the more expensive the product, the more duties you pay.
I thought the PixelFX approach with the GEM was bad at first, but I completely understand why they did what they did and that it really makes sense.
The trend is very clearly moving towards where you get your simple kit to get HDMI out from the console only, and then use the newest, most capable upscaler filter generator device that you'd like.
But if you really prefer to mod everything to be "stand-alone" and not need to be connected to several devices to get you going its still going to be possible but at a premium (which is the case currently regardless).
Based on how much trouble PixelFX was having just keeping instock their own newly produced products, they clearly and smartly foresaw a need to quickly changed how they were going to continue when they were stuck not able to even sell what they worked so hard to make already. It's good. I like it.
I do worry about if the Wii is going to need a differently arranged GEM board to fit or if it can be external maybe in the Wii OEM Stand or similar? And how the GEM for Xbox is going to be competitive with the XBOXHD+ (which I personally have held off on hoping to see what PixelFX offers before choosing).
I feel uncomfortable with the firmware thing, and while I could put out a mahoosive comment about those concerns, it'd be incoherent and wordy, and lord knows, it'll be long enough already.
There's so many issues inherent to licensing anything, and while this does make the product cheaper for those who just want hdmi out, those concerns with licensing can't be hand waved away and will inevitably cause pain for someone at some point.
Pixelfx had issues with stock with the old system, and now they want to add licensing and support for said licensing on top? No thanks, I've waited well over a year for the ps1digital to come back in stock and it never happened, and now this? I think I'll wait for alternatives instead.
Sorry pixelfx, I hope it works out for you, but I'm afraid I'll have to pass on this one :(
Thanks for mentioning the want of an Opentendo pre-populated front loader board. I'd like to buy multiples.
I'm hoping for either a solid black Famicom shell before I go that route. Or waiting for a AVFamicom solid black shell. There is very little desire in me to have the whole massive shell of the NES for real hardware.
People have been asking for more basic HDMI mods, so there you go. People who want the deluxe treatment can get it too. Everybody wins! Thanks for all these details. Oh, and I totally don't need that Retro-Bit controller (I have 8bitdo's N30 2.4g wireless controllers) but for 25 bucks it seems enticing.
Me personally, i have no desire for either retro gem. If you have like 1 or 2 consoles that you really love and want to upgrade to hdmi, that would be feasible. But those of us that have many, it would be very costly to upgrade all of them. I get that it is a pure digital to digital signal, but for 200 bucks how much better could it actually be than using HD retrovosion cables into a Rt4k. Spending all of that dough for just a slightly better signal doesn't make sense to me. The hardware also has its limitations. Like the n64 can only look so good. Plus that commercial was just awful. But hey they must have done something right because I heard they sold out. Maybe I'm the only one that doesn't get it lol.
I really want the RT4K for my HDMI consoles like my PS3, Xbox 360, PSTV, Switch, and my modded HDMI consoles
9:35 Hopefully you checked the manufacturing date on the PSU, Sony recalled some from August to December of 2004. Coury mentioned that in a pinned comment on the @mylifeingaming video!
Yep, mine is from 2005
@@dubesinhower Nice!
What exactly are people upset about? They have two separate products using software instead of hardware to unlock the features of the premium product? Is it because the extra features are not hardware? I don't understand how anyone could be upset about that. What am I missing?
Hopefully the gem being compaible with the wii means it should work with the gamecube down the line too
Yea, Dan said there wasn’t a need for a GameCube one now because of all the GC Video projects but I disagree
Arguably the most informative retro gaming channel around. I have ordered a basic Retro Gem model. The price point is perfect for me and I will up grade to the shiny by the time it arrives. If motion adaptive deinterlacing was included in the basic version I would have probably stuck with that. Currently I use an Insurrection scart into a GBS-C and then through an Mclassic for some lovely results. I completely understand PixelFx's desicion to price the Retro Gem the way they did as I am living proof of there strategy.
23:41 what is happening with Terraonion? I honestly have no idea, but I'm curious because I've bought the MODE in the past and recently became interested in their MegaSD.
Wait… the MegaSwitch will be available in the West?! All this time I thought he was Russian and it would be subject to sanctions. Impressed to see that he’s been doing all this from Ukraine, like SRG320. Awesome!
Haha funny story, my bank initially blocked the transaction to the Ukraine. But he’s using PayPal so they completed it on credit
It might be better but I think that we're getting into diminishing returns.
What about the controller/mem card covers for the ps1?? Those were supposed to happen
Surprised to hear you're not big into PS2 modding
The softmodding consoles (PS2, Xbox) change so quickly, sometimes it's hard to keep up!
I am familiar with modding for PS1 and PS2, and some of the stuff you said was incorrect as far as I can tell just an FYI. Not that it's all that important.
So just briefly so you understand, Free McBoot is when you use the memory card as a boot device. So it is very unlikely that the Memcard pro will ever do both booting and saving games at the same time because of the way the storage is formatted for each function. Imagine you booted into windows form your SSD and then while running your game you unplug your SSD and plug it back in but now reformatted as an external storage device. Would that make any sense?
That makes sense, and I guess using the MX4SIO isn't that inconvenient
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. The Nintendo Switch Online, NES controllers, WORK with the 8bitdo wireless receivers. I don't know how much more "stock looking" wireless controllers you can get. Besides the ones actually made by Nintendo themselves geezz....
Yes but they only charge via the joycon rails. You’re not wrong, just not the perfect solution
I think Pixel FX stole the open source Gbs-Control software and are packing it with their retrogem.
?
Is possible buy online PS2 With HDMI mod?
This dumb DLC move from PixelFX is scummy as hell. No one is gonna buy a 720p hdmi mod and they know it.
I bought it - with the rt4k looming on the horizon I would just use direct mode into rt4k. (And if it doesn’t pan out I can always go shiny!)
thanks for your hard work !! 🙂
Thanks for watching!
Does one really "need" a retrotink in general or would they "want" one?
Good point. I think having some kind of scaler is necessary for having a frustration-free experience on an LCD, and it’s up to your budget if you can get something like the 5X vs the 2X
I wish I could just buy a software upgrade for my memcard pro.
Barf
and also og xbox