@Phil M “Fast charging is bad”... in cases yes, the larger the battery the less detrimental a fast charger is, 150kWh DC will hurt a 16kWh battery more than a 75kWh battery. It also depends on how good the BMS is at handling the charge state. That said, these small batts don't really need a fast charger, unless you need a quick top up if you're attempting to outrun a storm front near Valemount. 🤣
DSR is not a new bike, been out forever. What they were showing was the accessories package (that is a new thing this year and came from Europe). Also, the J1772 plug on the Harley is L1 charging at 1kW. taking about 9 hours for a full charge. The CCS DC charging plug can charge it in about an hour. The Zero J1772 plug charges at 3kW in the base model, which takes about four hours. The premium model charges at 6kW which takes about two hours. The Zero optional charging upgrade will take it to 12kW, but the J1772 12kW network to support that feature does not currently exist (nowhere to take advantage of that), unclear if it will ever be deployed. The Energica (you only covered one model and skipped the two other models which are better fits when comparing to Harley or Zero) comes in two battery sizes. The smaller battery is comparable to Harley or Zero and its J1772 plug will charge it at 3kW in about 3.5 hours, and its CCS DC charging plug can charge it up 30 minutes (double the speed of the Harley). The large battery model increases the range by 61% (and thus charging times are a tad faster). However, they sped up DC charging a little, so it can charge that larger battery in an hour. Finally, range numbers from these vendors are not realistic (no one rides the motorcycles like scooters to get 200 miles). The highway and combined ranges are what matters. These are rounded estimates -- Harley 70 highway, Zero 80 highway, Energica (small battery) 70 highway, Energica (large battery) 115 highway. Worth noting that the USA Electrify America CCS DC highway stations are 100 miles apart. So of all the models, only the Energica + models can actually be used for practical touring. Everything else requires 'careful planning'.
I would buy one right this second. I applaud HD for bringing this out. It’s just the beginning. In three to five years you won’t believe the improvements. For those of you old enough it seems like just yesterday we didn’t even have cell phones.
Zero just blows the livewire out of the market. Why would Harley go into the electric marketplace they're not even competitive in. One would think that they had enough capital at one point to just buy Zero.
Polaris bought the Brammo electric motorcycle line --- NOT Zero. Seems like they discontinued Brammo with Victory according to Wikipedia, sorta vague though.
Interesting. I like bikes and have ridden in the past but the amount of traffic on the road puts me off now. I would ride one out in the country but I can't see me riding on the busy highways. Too many idiot drivers, unfortunately including some on bikes.
Amen to that my Brother and I was talking about this exact same thing the other day. I'm getting tired of putting my steal toes in someone's door at the light because of something stupid they just did. So instead of riding every other day it's more a couple times a month. When I was 20 it was the most beautiful piece of furniture I had in my livingroom ! I love my bike but it's not worth my life...
@@chadsimmons6347 Yes, because watching a video about Harley Davison and someone writes HD it means Home depot. Usually, when I watch home improvement videos and they say they go to Home Depot, I'm like, Oh, HD? they must mean Harley Davison.
Great video! I miss that Long Beach show. It’s without a doubt the best motorcycle show in the country. The show in the PNW is quite small in comparison. Usually only 5 or 6 of the large manufacturers show up. Great to see the electric bikes are advancing quickly with their performance and range. If I had the money I’d have the energica and the zero. Beautiful bikes.
I ‘d choose the Harley simply because they took the time to develop it’s Live Wire and didn’t rush it to market. It’s a good value despite its higher purchase price because you’re not paying for gas, oil and routine maintenance. However, range anxiety can spoil a long ride.
@@caspforge Cliff Louie is just a brand loyalist that is too stupid to see better products beyond the expensive, heavy crap they call Harley Davidson. Victory Empulse TT had better specs and range 4 years ago. Typical harley, always behind everyone else on tech.
I did a test ride on one of these. A motorcycle being loud is actually a safety feature, like it or not believe it or not. The sound of a bike makes it so drivers can hear you before they see you. I ride in Houston, so that noise is absolutely necessary.
People in a car can’t meaningfully hear even a ‘loud pipes’ motorcycle until it’s too close to have mattered. They’ll hear you about the time your front wheel is passing their back bumper, and see you about the time your rear wheel is reaching their front bumper.
I have a Gold Wing and a Yamaha Maxim in the garage. Both with gummed up carbureters because I haven't been able to ride them for a while. I think I'd get along good with an electric motorcycle.
In all fairness, it shouldn't be too big of a deal to dismantle and clean out a gooey carburetor. Just put some stabilizer in the gas before storing it, and don't use gas with alcohol in it (Gasohol.) Alternatively, get yourself a bike that has fuel injection instead of a carburetor :)
Harley for motorcycles is the equivalent of Facebook for social media. No one in their right minds would buy Harley anything. Their heyday was in the 70's, now they're just selling on their name, which doesn't carry the weight it used to. When they spit Beechnut in Trumps eye and started offshoring jobs to China was the end of Harley for many Harley riders.
True. Waiting on companies like Tesla and Panasonic among others to develop solid state tech. Supposed to do just that, lower cost dramatically along with greater storage potential.
@@whatmakesittick8362 tesla said they are staying away from the motorcycles market, but don't quote me cause I can't tell you what they are gunna do in 2 years
Been like that forever, and people riding them will still look down on other makes. EV or ICE, Harley riders will believe they're the cream of the crop. 😋
At the end of the video i heard your concern about range anexiety. Here's a solution for that as well. All modes of Electric transport have 3 major road blocks - Range anxiety, Charging time & battery life cycle. My system solves them all - It recharges batteries while - vehicle is in motion, stuck on red light, crawling in traffic, cruising on highway or off-roading. 1. Increases range by at-least 3 times of its actual range with the same battery pack. (for e.g. If the vehicle travels 50 miles in a single charge with this system the same vehicle will travels 150 miles +). 2. Reduces charging time by 40%. 3. Increase battery life cycles by 20% minimum. 4. World's first automatic lag free switch-over system. 5. Reduces direct consumption of power from batteries. 6. Recharges batteries. "Eventually batteries have to be recharged." India has solved range anexity for all EV
Which Energica moto had the logo glowing?! That's a nice little feature. Didn't look like it was on the Ego. Honestly, I'm just happy that there are now several choices if one is interested in getting a motorcycle. I'll be moving to California very soon and haven't ridden in a little over 10 years. What a way to get back into motorcycling - with an electric one! Heh
One of the things missed in all the videos I've seen on electric bikes is altitude. You have the same power available at 12,000 ft. as you do at sea level. That's a big difference for long distance riders like me.
Nice review, just my opinion as you have never ridden a harley before, they are all really heavy, so when going slow they can be difficult to handle but once moving not a problem. They are definitely not renowned for being sporty, but are great cruising bikes.
For a temporary operation, the generator is the only way. Sitting up solar panels systems on a temporary basis is a logistic nightmare unless you have protected area that's a few acres with no possibility of trespass. Every panel must be secured so a weather event wouldn't cause injuries. And no person can access the electrical wiring. At this time none of the big problem I see is several different connectors for charging vehicles. There needs to be only one type connection for all brands and models. One safety note, if you have ever been suprised by another vehicle you are not doing your job as a vehicle operator, it doesn't matter whear that vehicle came from. Stay safe everyone and have a long and happy life like me. In the photo I'm 67 years old.
How is 18k close to 35k? By Simple math, is almost the double. And how a motorcycle is close to a car? People looking for a motorcycle are not looking for a car. You are talking nonsense
Your analogy is better than your detractors think, because anyone with 18K motorcycle toy money already has Tesla car money. Poor people aren't the intended customers for these high end toys, they are meant for rich early adopters to fund further R&D which is the proven (by Tesla) way to do it. Motorcyclists tend to be very narrow minded due to the brand identification culture but electric vehicles are personal electronic devices which happen to have wheels. T
I think you're using the L1 / L2 Charging terms wrong. They Have J1772 Charging sockets with DCFC. L1 = 120V and L2 = 220V, I don't think the Zero limits you to 110V like you say when you said 'level 1 only)
More accurate would have been to say "Harley has a J1772 plug allowing L1 charging in 9 hours, while Zero has a J1172 plug allowing L2 charging at 3kW base in four hours, 6kW premium in two hours, and optionally up to 12kW in one hour. On top of that the Harley has a CCS Direct Current plug allowing charging in one hour. The J1772 12kW network Zero uses is somewhat rare and new, however the CCS DC network Harley and Energica use is growing and available now nationwide and at every Livewire Harley dealer. BTW, the Energica CCS DC charging is twice as fast as Harley's CCS DC charging."
@@forrest1948 Not at $30,000 they're not....and not for a bike to take around town. Until there are charging stations every 100 miles. HD will lose money on this.
They need to develop a parallel twin,inline triple, inline4, or a v-4. Need to have themselves a look at bikes like the fz07,fz09-xsr, duke790, etc so they can see the bikes they need to stand up to for their new segment. They need to hire me damnit
Any ideas about servicing costs? I've been out of the loop for a while, I assume that being electric, as you no longer have the constant oil, filter, tappet adjustment etc so servicing costs should be lower? What servicing is it going to need? What are they going to charge you (pardon the pun) for a new battery?
Brakes and tires, that's all. Tires may wear faster, because of the high torque. Brakes last longer, because of the regenerative engine braking. There's 5 year warranty on the battery. Most defects accur in that period. After that, the battery lasts longer than the vehicle.
Don't forget about the pedestrians. Watched a guy being an idiot in NY on an E-bike weaving in and out of places that pedestrians could have been seriously injured or killed as he whizzed by/through them.
TBH, I only hear bikes when the pipes are right next to me or just ahead of me, you could ride a loud bike right up to my rear corner and I wont hear it as I change lanes right over it. If you are speeding while lane splitting I have no clue you are coming up behind me. And I’m sure most other car drivers arent hearing them until too late either.
@@noblestar7742 ugh, that is what society has come to, faces buried in their phones as they walk or even drive, to the point they cant tell when theyre going to be run over or run someone over.
I saw you recording at the show, I was in line to try out the zero, it was different riding a Zero motorcycle indoors I did try the Livewire I like it, its fun to ride, but the purchase price and cost of insurance for me, not at this time. I kind of laughed whenever I saw you rocording there was always someone hanging around to steal a shot or walk right in front of your camera they did it to me too. a little fun fact the LiveWire actually has two batteries, it has a small 12V Lithium Ion battery for the lights and instruments.
Awesome scooters. Wish they'd put a clutch on them like the Brammo Empulse. The clutch is a needed tool for the experienced rides, also, gotta love the regenerative braking.
You should see the ones from Super Soco; some of their models are styled like vintage motorcycles, more affordable too at £50 per month on 0% finance. (Or £1500-4000)
I'm a bit confused. Shouldn't the e-bikes allow for different form factors. Some of pikes look like they have wasted space. It be another 5-10 years before I'm a player in this market at this rate
The livewire will attract Harley riders who want to stay with their brand. It’s a top heavy pig so it should feel similar to other bikes in their lineup. I don’t see this taking any sales from other electric brands. Sad specs
It's too bad you didn't get a chance to ride an Alta Motors bike. Well, that is if they are still around. I had the opportunity to do some testing with them. My personal opinion, not associated with anything other than myself, they were great guys and had a really great bike. Just above my price point.
I have ridden the LiveWire at the H-D museum before it's being announced as a new model. It is a cool machine, I kept trying to reach for a phantom clutch. But you get used to having no clutch the acceleration is for all intents and purposes instantaneous.
energica hands down is winning. Personally i prefer look of their esse9. The esse9+ gets 112 mile range on highway and as far as I know they are only ev bikes that can dc fast charge. 0-80% in like 30-40 minutes were zero and others are all taking 2 hours+ on a level 2 charger and can only go 60-90 miles on full charge. Zero needs to add a dc fast charge option. Was hoping they would with the sr/s but they didnt.
Riding with your buddies, they go to a gas station, you got to find a charger and pray it’s not in use, wait a hour or two for full charge before heading out again. Do to think your buddies are going to wait for you....NOT.
Maybe take a look at the zero's, the pricepoint is much nicer even more so on their other versions and I have a lot of fun on my zero s as the torque is nuts and it makes a great commuter.
Really nice. But for the price, I'd go for a Cybertruck and my e-trike to ride the open road. I love being out in the air feeling the wind in my hair, but at 15-20 mph on my trike I'm even more in it. The only way I could do that is to pull a tiny trailer with a generator so I can't get stuck out with no power.
And that's my basic problem. I'd like one, but way too much for me. Hoping the technology and production numbers will bring the price down a huge amount.
Battery technology is on the march and an improvement in battery life, charge rate and capacity is inevitable. Once this happens gas powered cars and bikes will be phased out and if you have ever driven or ridden an electric vehicle you will know why.
Also question! I know if you charge anything with batteries usually fast charge it shortens the life of the battery. What about these? Also if you do not break a battery in such as cell phones it also shortens the life. Does this still count in this, or did they forget to mention this to most people who have no clue of that
Also if the livewire wants to be something they need to upgrade their stuff. Most other electric motorcycles have way more technology and such than they do.
The zero would be the best of all 3 if it only had lvl 2 charging. Edit: I did a quick google search and found out that they actually have an optional charger tank that let's you charge at 220v (lvl 2) Yeah, zero SR/F is probably the best of all 3.
Howdy ! Hey just saw your review on the three elec. bikes. As you rode the Harley how would you compare it to an combustion bike would it be as safe, safer or the same riding through the Mountains and canyons or riding through bad weather like rain, snow, wind etc.
That’s a pretty stark 180 for Harley... From loud, heavy and outdated, to silent and efficient. Also, for Zero, aluminum bar ends aren’t a feature... they’re just cheap and defeat the point of bar ends.
Zero Motorcycles have been around a while and it's a better designed, longer range, and cost less than the Harley electric bike. That could hurt HD sales..could be a huge flop!
What's the games name? The most expensive grocery ride? They all have a range below 150km and after that require minimum several hours of charging. It's hilarious to assume those are changing anything until battery energy density issue is solved.
I sat on a LiveWire at the Dallas show. It's top heavy. Get it started leaning and it wants to go all the way. Seat of granite. $30K and about 100 miles range. Exactly who is supposed to buy one?
The Live wire is $45,500 Energizer battery where I live yes the range is a big issue , might be okay in the cities not when I travel 150 miles to visit my grandchildren which is also the closest harley dealership and ev charging from my town
Like it or not this is the future for motorcycles, change in attitudes is a generational thing, adaptation will be slow, adoption will be slow, but petrol driven engine days are numbered, bikes are not immune from eco/technical change. For now we are at the beginning of change through system/software control development, power and range development, and importantly, delivery of driving experience, which can be similar to petrol driven bikes. For example, developing an onboard sound system which gives you the virtual noise of a petrol engine at idol and acceleration, as traditional petrol engine noise is a safety aspect for now. Price wise, new tech usually costs more initially. Until performance/range improves early adoption will be slow. Innovation however, will transform our experience of motorcycle riding.
Awesome machines. Makes me wonder why Honda has no e motorcycle in the market place to compete with HD and Zero. Maybe they will simply join in with a bike that's an instant hit like their CB750/4 was back in the day.
I really don't see anything cool about electric m/c beside being good for the environment . Could you imagine seeing about 20 dressed scruffy looking men/women in leathers going down the road and you don't hear a thing! Not the same. There's nothing like the sound of a Twin rumbling down the road. Sounds like a big cat purring in your ear. Very soothing and relaxing.
those are cool for grandpa, but where are the sports manual transmission? you know, those that we have to shift to get more range? have acceleration bite, and extra spice. cause those are the ones I m interested in, my pa will be ok after all, his wheelchair is automatic too.
I love Harley's. People don't buy them based on price. It is a work of art. Most people have no idea the level of detail that goes into the design of those bikes. I can definitely see myself riding one of those in the not too distant future. electric vehicles are the future. It won't be too many years before gasoline powered vehicles are a thing of the past. In 10 years, you might struggle just to find a gasoline stand.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Harley CONTINUES to price itself out of business...i mean, damn, who's in charge overthere ?
@@NaveenNair0 lol
@@NaveenNair0 couldn't even imagine a bearded hells angel riding an electric bike lol with his gun tucked in holster.
Adjectives, marketing , and ego .
Way out of line ,weight, sound ? , cost .
A boomer.
No one now that the CEO was let go lmao.
"Level 2 charging is an option" ... the level 2 plug should be a standard on all EV's.
@Phil M “Fast charging is bad”... in cases yes, the larger the battery the less detrimental a fast charger is, 150kWh DC will hurt a 16kWh battery more than a 75kWh battery. It also depends on how good the BMS is at handling the charge state.
That said, these small batts don't really need a fast charger, unless you need a quick top up if you're attempting to outrun a storm front near Valemount. 🤣
@Phil M Level 2 is NOT Fast Charging. It's the optimal level for a battery around 20kwh.
You are totally correct, Dave!
What about Lithium IRON Phosphate batteries such as the Ballistic on my VFR800i...which manufacturer uses those?
@@dalel3608 wyd
DSR is not a new bike, been out forever. What they were showing was the accessories package (that is a new thing this year and came from Europe). Also, the J1772 plug on the Harley is L1 charging at 1kW. taking about 9 hours for a full charge. The CCS DC charging plug can charge it in about an hour. The Zero J1772 plug charges at 3kW in the base model, which takes about four hours. The premium model charges at 6kW which takes about two hours. The Zero optional charging upgrade will take it to 12kW, but the J1772 12kW network to support that feature does not currently exist (nowhere to take advantage of that), unclear if it will ever be deployed. The Energica (you only covered one model and skipped the two other models which are better fits when comparing to Harley or Zero) comes in two battery sizes. The smaller battery is comparable to Harley or Zero and its J1772 plug will charge it at 3kW in about 3.5 hours, and its CCS DC charging plug can charge it up 30 minutes (double the speed of the Harley). The large battery model increases the range by 61% (and thus charging times are a tad faster). However, they sped up DC charging a little, so it can charge that larger battery in an hour. Finally, range numbers from these vendors are not realistic (no one rides the motorcycles like scooters to get 200 miles). The highway and combined ranges are what matters. These are rounded estimates -- Harley 70 highway, Zero 80 highway, Energica (small battery) 70 highway, Energica (large battery) 115 highway. Worth noting that the USA Electrify America CCS DC highway stations are 100 miles apart. So of all the models, only the Energica + models can actually be used for practical touring. Everything else requires 'careful planning'.
As a previous Harley D. owner, I wish them the best but they will never touch my money again.
The Energica Ego+ is amazing. Such a great company and such a great story behind it.
Still too pricey IMO. Price of a small car.....Competition not strong enough to affect prices.
I would buy one right this second. I applaud HD for bringing this out. It’s just the beginning. In three to five years you won’t believe the improvements. For those of you old enough it seems like just yesterday we didn’t even have cell phones.
Zero just blows the livewire out of the market. Why would Harley go into the electric marketplace they're not even competitive in. One would think that they had enough capital at one point to just buy Zero.
Yeah great...just like they bought Buell and killed it.
Polaris owns zero the last I checked, who also owns Indian, so I strongly doubt they will sell to there biggest competitor
@@Nightakula I was not aware that Polaris owns Zero, that explains a lot.
Polaris bought the Brammo electric motorcycle line --- NOT Zero. Seems like they discontinued Brammo with Victory according to Wikipedia, sorta vague though.
@@Nightakula Polaris brought (and shelfed) Brammo, not Zero.
Interesting. I like bikes and have ridden in the past but the amount of traffic on the road puts me off now. I would ride one out in the country but I can't see me riding on the busy highways. Too many idiot drivers, unfortunately including some on bikes.
IMHO It's perfect for off-road. No noise.
Yep. Now imagine riding a bike on a busy highway with no engine noise so now people cant see you and hear you.
@@VictorRochaGaming In the mountains on trails , and to run over a bear , that did not hear you
Amen to that my Brother and I was talking about this exact same thing the other day. I'm getting tired of putting my steal toes in someone's door at the light because of something stupid they just did. So instead of riding every other day it's more a couple times a month. When I was 20 it was the most beautiful piece of furniture I had in my livingroom ! I love my bike but it's not worth my life...
Fear is not an option. Four wheels moves the body, but two wheels move the soul.
HD will include an oil reservoir which will leak at a set rate so you get the full HD experience.
😂😂😂😂😂
The bolts will also loosen up in intervals.
HD = for Head Down for shame
HD for Home Depot?..buy a bike and get a free tow-strap, for when it breaks down?
@@chadsimmons6347 Yes, because watching a video about Harley Davison and someone writes HD it means Home depot. Usually, when I watch home improvement videos and they say they go to Home Depot, I'm like, Oh, HD? they must mean Harley Davison.
Only on a $30K Harley would "gear whine" be a selling point. (I'm all for anybody getting serious in the E.V. market; but I'm not a player at $30k.)
It does sound good though. ALL electrics should sound at least that good.
@@RobertMorgan My Zero FXS sounds JUST as good, and i paid less than $9,000 for it!
Great video! I miss that Long Beach show. It’s without a doubt the best motorcycle show in the country.
The show in the PNW is quite small in comparison. Usually only 5 or 6 of the large manufacturers show up.
Great to see the electric bikes are advancing quickly with their performance and range. If I had the money I’d have the energica and the zero. Beautiful bikes.
This is some promising tech but 20k for a bike? That's small car territory. I'd be happy with 100-150 mile range in the $5-8k range as a commuter bike
Chris Bouchard most liter bikes cost 20k or more...
I wouldn't consider a liter bike a commuter bike though.
Zero s is closer to the price point, its cheaper but still not where most people want it. I got one and love it even if it was pricy at 15K after tax.
The Zero FX is in your desired price range, though it is at the upper end.
Wait for the Sur Ron storm bee. Light bee is $4k and has about 60 miles range.
Finally a report on bikes available in the US. Please do one for e-scooters that go at least 50 mph, so they could cruse at 45 around town.
The Harley? WHY?????? The specs alone should tell you it's not the one. To me the obvious choice to take on a test ride is the Zero.
Christ that Harley's specs are just embarrassing at that price point.
I ‘d choose the Harley simply because they took the time to develop it’s Live Wire and didn’t rush it to market. It’s a good value despite its higher purchase price because you’re not paying for gas, oil and routine maintenance. However, range anxiety can spoil a long ride.
@@Metrobus271 why when the zero has been around longer has better range and power they have the development and real world experience already set
30k is just stupid expensive for a motorcycle
@@Metrobus271
@@caspforge Cliff Louie is just a brand loyalist that is too stupid to see better products beyond the expensive, heavy crap they call Harley Davidson. Victory Empulse TT had better specs and range 4 years ago. Typical harley, always behind everyone else on tech.
I wonder how much the Harley-Davidson emblem cost?
Oh that's right! 30k, I almost forgot.
$30k I could only afford $2000
Dang HD ! They have the best distribution system, best possible buyer contact but coming in with the lowest hp&tq numbers and highest price!
Why would you by the Harley for just less $30,000, when you can get a MUCH better bike from Energica, for $6,000 less!?
At the dealer theyll go for 35 to 40K
Or zero
Difference is actually even greater than that. Energica is keeping the models that matches the Harley's range for $10k less.
Harley is getting greedy and think they can pull triple time more because of their logo on it..
But the energica is fugly.
I did a test ride on one of these. A motorcycle being loud is actually a safety feature, like it or not believe it or not. The sound of a bike makes it so drivers can hear you before they see you. I ride in Houston, so that noise is absolutely necessary.
They come with a noise maker, a little button on the left... some call it a horn.
People in a car can’t meaningfully hear even a ‘loud pipes’ motorcycle until it’s too close to have mattered. They’ll hear you about the time your front wheel is passing their back bumper, and see you about the time your rear wheel is reaching their front bumper.
I have a Gold Wing and a Yamaha Maxim in the garage. Both with gummed up carbureters because I haven't been able to ride them for a while. I think I'd get along good with an electric motorcycle.
In all fairness, it shouldn't be too big of a deal to dismantle and clean out a gooey carburetor. Just put some stabilizer in the gas before storing it, and don't use gas with alcohol in it (Gasohol.)
Alternatively, get yourself a bike that has fuel injection instead of a carburetor :)
I think Energica has beat their competition with price and performance! This from an old, old Harley guy.
Technology is pretty exciting. I can imagine a resurgence of Cafe racing except it'll be charging station cafes
The Harley has to have an oil tank with a drip valve to seem natural. Also an industrial vibrater in the seat.
LOL
Harley for motorcycles is the equivalent of Facebook for social media. No one in their right minds would buy Harley anything. Their heyday was in the 70's, now they're just selling on their name, which doesn't carry the weight it used to. When they spit Beechnut in Trumps eye and started offshoring jobs to China was the end of Harley for many Harley riders.
Electric bikes will not be competitive until they get the price point down by 50%. We are a looooong way off.
True. Waiting on companies like Tesla and Panasonic among others to develop solid state tech. Supposed to do just that, lower cost dramatically along with greater storage potential.
@@whatmakesittick8362 You are right, Will
@@whatmakesittick8362 tesla said they are staying away from the motorcycles market, but don't quote me cause I can't tell you what they are gunna do in 2 years
Some kind of additional storage breakthrough is required as well.
It's all in the batteries, we need small, high capacity batteries that have 10 times the energy density
so nice to have a guy that knows bikes. well done.
Typical Harley, Heavy, Expensive and better value elsewhere.
Agreed....they have bad motor mouted..with to many gear....also its better to have its like zero mc...
Been like that forever, and people riding them will still look down on other makes. EV or ICE, Harley riders will believe they're the cream of the crop. 😋
@Trumpenstein any bike can be loud, I have a Victory that is loud, big deal and i have an Indian that is loud, big deal.
@@snakebite6511 But how can you make a normal, as an example, a v twin 800ccm bike, so loud ? With the nice harley BANG BANG :P
Still confused why the big 4 Japanese haven't released any electric bikes yet. I guess they are waiting for the tech to actually be reasonably priced?
I built a e bike for $ 800 dollars from stuff on E bay, put a couple a thousand miles on it I am happy with it.
Yep E-bikes’ time has come, E-motorbikes not until at least the next generation of battery tech.
I'd choose the sports bike then the zero that harley is ugly that's just my opinion
Pe Ter Nnnno, it's not just yours, trust me. It's a bag of shiite tied up ugly.
2022= Harley Davidson's announcement that they are filing for bankruptcy
IM AUSTRALIAN. 51 YEAR OLD HARLEY LOVING MAN. BUT WOULD NOT OWN ANY HARLEY MADE AFTER 2000. NOTHING BUT MADE IN CHINA SHIT.
Raymond Holder lol
@@raymondholder6807 does anyone under 50 want to ride a Harley these days?
After filing for bankruptcy, they'll want Japanese bikes to be tariffed again.
At the end of the video i heard your concern about range anexiety. Here's a solution for that as well.
All modes of Electric transport have 3 major road blocks - Range anxiety, Charging time & battery life cycle.
My system solves them all - It recharges batteries while - vehicle is in motion, stuck on red light, crawling in traffic, cruising on highway or off-roading.
1. Increases range by at-least 3 times of its actual range with the same battery pack. (for e.g. If the vehicle travels 50 miles in a single charge with this system the same vehicle will travels 150 miles +).
2. Reduces charging time by 40%.
3. Increase battery life cycles by 20% minimum.
4. World's first automatic lag free switch-over system.
5. Reduces direct consumption of power from batteries.
6. Recharges batteries.
"Eventually batteries have to be recharged."
India has solved range anexity for all EV
Looked like a lot of fun, cool video and really useful content.
They messed up, could've used the extra space to fit a helmet in it
If you are talking about the zero, the extra space gets filled with the options that are needed to get to the range they advertise.
Zero SR/F has it in its "fuel tank".
Cool stuff! Thanks for sharing. Glad you were there showing us what the different manufacturers for E-Bikes are. Keep up the good work.
You know how long it would take me to go through $20K in high quality gasoline?
Way WAY overpriced.
Nice reviews.
So Zero still has no competition. They must be chuffed.
Which Energica moto had the logo glowing?! That's a nice little feature. Didn't look like it was on the Ego.
Honestly, I'm just happy that there are now several choices if one is interested in getting a motorcycle. I'll be moving to California very soon and haven't ridden in a little over 10 years. What a way to get back into motorcycling - with an electric one! Heh
One of the things missed in all the videos I've seen on electric bikes is altitude. You have the same power available at 12,000 ft. as you do at sea level. That's a big difference for long distance riders like me.
Nice review, just my opinion as you have never ridden a harley before, they are all really heavy, so when going slow they can be difficult to handle but once moving not a problem. They are definitely not renowned for being sporty, but are great cruising bikes.
Electric Harley getting charged by a diesel generator, eco friendly !!!
why not solar panels HOW ABOUT hydro?
Ya ain't that a bitch.
For a temporary operation, the generator is the only way. Sitting up solar panels systems on a temporary basis is a logistic nightmare unless you have protected area that's a few acres with no possibility of trespass. Every panel must be secured so a weather event wouldn't cause injuries. And no person can access the electrical wiring. At this time none of the big problem I see is several different connectors for charging vehicles. There needs to be only one type connection for all brands and models. One safety note, if you have ever been suprised by another vehicle you are not doing your job as a vehicle operator, it doesn't matter whear that vehicle came from. Stay safe everyone and have a long and happy life like me. In the photo I'm 67 years old.
@scotiansen until you factor in Lithium mining.
Not the way to go. No biker wants one.
They are all way too expensive. You can get a Tesla for $35K
How is 18k close to 35k? By Simple math, is almost the double. And how a motorcycle is close to a car?
People looking for a motorcycle are not looking for a car.
You are talking nonsense
Ivan Carlos Santiago did you watch the actual video?
Your analogy is better than your detractors think, because anyone with 18K motorcycle toy money already has Tesla car money. Poor people aren't the intended customers for these high end toys, they are meant for rich early adopters to fund further R&D which is the proven (by Tesla) way to do it. Motorcyclists tend to be very narrow minded due to the brand identification culture but electric vehicles are personal electronic devices which happen to have wheels. T
But will you be getting the same amount of pussy??? I think not, sir.
@@LeeroyyyyyJenkinssssss well, of the three reviewed, my money is on the Harley getting more pussy. Still.
You can go decent range or go fast but not both at the same time.
I think you're using the L1 / L2 Charging terms wrong. They Have J1772 Charging sockets with DCFC. L1 = 120V and L2 = 220V, I don't think the Zero limits you to 110V like you say when you said 'level 1 only)
More accurate would have been to say "Harley has a J1772 plug allowing L1 charging in 9 hours, while Zero has a J1172 plug allowing L2 charging at 3kW base in four hours, 6kW premium in two hours, and optionally up to 12kW in one hour. On top of that the Harley has a CCS Direct Current plug allowing charging in one hour. The J1772 12kW network Zero uses is somewhat rare and new, however the CCS DC network Harley and Energica use is growing and available now nationwide and at every Livewire Harley dealer. BTW, the Energica CCS DC charging is twice as fast as Harley's CCS DC charging."
I think harley dropped the ball on this one
Looks like Harley is trying to sale to a different market than your traditional Harley rider.
@@forrest1948 Not at $30,000 they're not....and not for a bike to take around town. Until there are charging stations every 100 miles. HD will lose money on this.
No, they may have left the ball at home. If they brought the ball, it wasn't inflated. I'm really hoping for better with their next electric bike.
They need to develop a parallel twin,inline triple, inline4, or a v-4. Need to have themselves a look at bikes like the fz07,fz09-xsr, duke790, etc so they can see the bikes they need to stand up to for their new segment. They need to hire me damnit
Harley Is mostly all China now anyway. It's nothing but pure branding.
Any ideas about servicing costs? I've been out of the loop for a while, I assume that being electric, as you no longer have the constant oil, filter, tappet adjustment etc so servicing costs should be lower? What servicing is it going to need?
What are they going to charge you (pardon the pun) for a new battery?
Thousands. Literally.
Brakes and tires, that's all. Tires may wear faster, because of the high torque. Brakes last longer, because of the regenerative engine braking. There's 5 year warranty on the battery. Most defects accur in that period. After that, the battery lasts longer than the vehicle.
Mixed feelings on all of these. On a motorcycle I want to be heard as an extra layer of safety against the drivers not paying attention.
Don't forget about the pedestrians. Watched a guy being an idiot in NY on an E-bike weaving in and out of places that pedestrians could have been seriously injured or killed as he whizzed by/through them.
W W good point. The loud “watch out” rev up is not something I would give up. Comes in handy when needed
TBH, I only hear bikes when the pipes are right next to me or just ahead of me, you could ride a loud bike right up to my rear corner and I wont hear it as I change lanes right over it. If you are speeding while lane splitting I have no clue you are coming up behind me. And I’m sure most other car drivers arent hearing them until too late either.
@@noblestar7742 so what happens if the bike is electric? Pedestrians get hit? Bikers get hit?
@@noblestar7742 ugh, that is what society has come to, faces buried in their phones as they walk or even drive, to the point they cant tell when theyre going to be run over or run someone over.
I saw you recording at the show, I was in line to try out the zero, it was different riding a Zero motorcycle indoors I did try the Livewire I like it, its fun to ride, but the purchase price and cost of insurance for me, not at this time.
I kind of laughed whenever I saw you rocording there was always someone hanging around to steal a shot or walk right in front of your camera they did it to me too.
a little fun fact the LiveWire actually has two batteries, it has a small 12V Lithium Ion battery for the lights and instruments.
Awesome scooters. Wish they'd put a clutch on them like the Brammo Empulse. The clutch is a needed tool for the experienced rides, also, gotta love the regenerative braking.
An hour "Quick Charge" Like I've got the time to burn. Great clip, thanks.
You should see the ones from Super Soco; some of their models are styled like vintage motorcycles, more affordable too at £50 per month on 0% finance. (Or £1500-4000)
I'm a bit confused. Shouldn't the e-bikes allow for different form factors. Some of pikes look like they have wasted space.
It be another 5-10 years before I'm a player in this market at this rate
I know this is supposed to be a gpod thing... But im literally about to cry knowing i wouldnt be able to own and ride my dream bikes in about 10 years
$30,000 dollars and only 120 miles of range for the harley....😐
the harley has the worst specs and is the most expensive. The livewire team should be embarassed.
Zachariah Robertson 30k in the US? Dang, it’s gotta be $$$ outside of the US!
The livewire will attract Harley riders who want to stay with their brand. It’s a top heavy pig so it should feel similar to other bikes in their lineup. I don’t see this taking any sales from other electric brands. Sad specs
120 miles is probably about 100 miles more than needed for their customer base.
Harley is a joke.
Should have supported Alta Motors
It's too bad you didn't get a chance to ride an Alta Motors bike. Well, that is if they are still around. I had the opportunity to do some testing with them. My personal opinion, not associated with anything other than myself, they were great guys and had a really great bike. Just above my price point.
Zero is awesome I want one 100%
I have ridden the LiveWire at the H-D museum before it's being announced as a new model. It is a cool machine, I kept trying to reach for a phantom clutch. But you get used to having no clutch the acceleration is for all intents and purposes instantaneous.
Thank you for not writing 'intensive purposes' LOL
A HD with no shifting, no noise, no vibration, no shaking mirrors. All good things but not for $30K.
Top heavy bike is not at all desirable. Surprised HD could not engineer that out of the design.
MoMo BaBa LOL-my buddy (who owns a HD Road King Classic) agrees with you. Many issues with it!!!
energica hands down is winning. Personally i prefer look of their esse9. The esse9+ gets 112 mile range on highway and as far as I know they are only ev bikes that can dc fast charge. 0-80% in like 30-40 minutes were zero and others are all taking 2 hours+ on a level 2 charger and can only go 60-90 miles on full charge.
Zero needs to add a dc fast charge option. Was hoping they would with the sr/s but they didnt.
Riding with your buddies, they go to a gas station, you got to find a charger and pray it’s not in use, wait a hour or two for full charge before heading out again. Do to think your buddies are going to wait for you....NOT.
I had a livewire reserved, but when they came out with the 30k price tag, I asked for my deposit back. I was willing to pay 20 tops.
Maybe take a look at the zero's, the pricepoint is much nicer even more so on their other versions and I have a lot of fun on my zero s as the torque is nuts and it makes a great commuter.
I had a deposit on a Livewire as well but when I couldn’t get past the 13k price difference (3k dealer add on) I got the Zero.
Really nice. But for the price, I'd go for a Cybertruck and my e-trike to ride the open road. I love being out in the air feeling the wind in my hair, but at 15-20 mph on my trike I'm even more in it. The only way I could do that is to pull a tiny trailer with a generator so I can't get stuck out with no power.
The Italian bike is awesome!
Thanks for posting. This next decade will be the decade of electric vehicles.
E B - yup, for silly fad following sheeple
It’s a rather stupid idea if you understand the laws of thermodynamics
@@JV-tg2ne Out of curiosity, what do you mean by that?
These are seriously cool, but not $30k cool...
And that's my basic problem. I'd like one, but way too much for me. Hoping the technology and production numbers will bring the price down a huge amount.
How are we going to know when the gang rolls into town now?
Dave .E The smell.
They'll bring a Harley with them....
Bandidos will say Hell no lol
I cant wait to get one, at a good price of course.
Battery technology is on the march and an improvement in battery life, charge rate and capacity is inevitable. Once this happens gas powered cars and bikes will be phased out and if you have ever driven or ridden an electric vehicle you will know why.
Harley needs to come in around $20k... $30k+ for a weekend warrior, way overpriced for something disposable.
Besides, they are made in China people let's make these companies go broke
I guess if you don't own a home or live out of a Tiny House like the rest of the sub-30s .... this works out just great.
Here at Boom Moto, we are excited to be apart of the Electric Motorcycle revolution. We have one of the most affordable bikes on the market.
Also question! I know if you charge anything with batteries usually fast charge it shortens the life of the battery. What about these? Also if you do not break a battery in such as cell phones it also shortens the life. Does this still count in this, or did they forget to mention this to most people who have no clue of that
Also if the livewire wants to be something they need to upgrade their stuff. Most other electric motorcycles have way more technology and such than they do.
The zero would be the best of all 3 if it only had lvl 2 charging.
Edit: I did a quick google search and found out that they actually have an optional charger tank that let's you charge at 220v (lvl 2)
Yeah, zero SR/F is probably the best of all 3.
CCS charging is the game changer, Energica pulls 100 miles in 30 minutes.
my question is...it would be interesting to know if people have toured on these..Impressive technology and design.
Howdy ! Hey just saw your review on the three elec. bikes. As you rode the Harley how would you compare it to an combustion bike would it be as safe, safer or the same riding through the Mountains and canyons or riding through bad weather like rain, snow, wind etc.
Not a motorcycle guy but my concern would be the high center of gravity. Sounds like that would make it harder to ride and easier to dump.
That’s a pretty stark 180 for Harley... From loud, heavy and outdated, to silent and efficient.
Also, for Zero, aluminum bar ends aren’t a feature... they’re just cheap and defeat the point of bar ends.
HellishGrin460 - no thanks, these things are remarkably inefficient and silly as well as mock the laws of thermodynamics
J V I can’t tell if you’re joking, or...
Thanks again for another informative video.
I want an electric supermoto with some real range so I can go rip up the town late at night.
I am agreement with you Thomas I want something quiet that I can sneak around town with cops don't need to know what I'm up to.
Zero Motorcycles have been around a while and it's a better designed, longer range, and cost less than the Harley electric bike. That could hurt HD sales..could be a huge flop!
What's the games name? The most expensive grocery ride? They all have a range below 150km and after that require minimum several hours of charging. It's hilarious to assume those are changing anything until battery energy density issue is solved.
I sat on a LiveWire at the Dallas show. It's top heavy. Get it started leaning and it wants to go all the way. Seat of granite. $30K and about 100 miles range. Exactly who is supposed to buy one?
🔋🔋🔋Love, love and love !!! Thanks man for the great review. 🔋🔋🔋
The Live wire is $45,500 Energizer battery where I live yes the range is a big issue , might be okay in the cities not when I travel 150 miles to visit my grandchildren which is also the closest harley dealership and ev charging from my town
I think the H-D LiveWire is DOA in a sales sense -- dead on arrival.
Great video. The bike though? 30k?
If I see one of these on the road, it will be the first time I get to not wave at a Harley rider 😂
Like it or not this is the future for motorcycles, change in attitudes is a generational thing, adaptation will be slow, adoption will be slow, but petrol driven engine days are numbered, bikes are not immune from eco/technical change. For now we are at the beginning of change through system/software control development, power and range development, and importantly, delivery of driving experience, which can be similar to petrol driven bikes. For example, developing an onboard sound system which gives you the virtual noise of a petrol engine at idol and acceleration, as traditional petrol engine noise is a safety aspect for now. Price wise, new tech usually costs more initially. Until performance/range improves early adoption will be slow. Innovation however, will transform our experience of motorcycle riding.
I'm just curious what quantities they are expecting to sell? 5, 10 ,50 bikes?
Awesome machines. Makes me wonder why Honda has no e motorcycle in the market place to compete with HD and Zero. Maybe they will simply join in with a bike that's an instant hit like their CB750/4 was back in the day.
That energica😯😍🦖🦖🦖🦖 wow! Money wise it has to be the best bang for the buck! What I would do to ride one
I really don't see anything cool about electric m/c beside being good for the environment . Could you imagine seeing about 20 dressed scruffy looking men/women in leathers going down the road and you don't hear a thing! Not the same. There's nothing like the sound of a Twin rumbling down the road. Sounds like a big cat purring in your ear. Very soothing and relaxing.
Sometimes I just like looking at a beautiful engine. A nice looking battery box isn't going to do it for me.
Does livewire still offer those colours that metallic yellow is sick!
What are you used to riding? I found it to be very light and easy to ride - reminds me a lot of my FXR!
Energica Ego looks like the best bang for buck 22 grand it would compete with the Aprilia rsv4 and the Ducati SuperSport
those are cool for grandpa, but where are the sports manual transmission?
you know, those that we have to shift to get more range?
have acceleration bite, and extra spice.
cause those are the ones I m interested in,
my pa will be ok after all, his wheelchair is automatic too.
I love Harley's. People don't buy them based on price. It is a work of art. Most people have no idea the level of detail that goes into the design of those bikes. I can definitely see myself riding one of those in the not too distant future. electric vehicles are the future. It won't be too many years before gasoline powered vehicles are a thing of the past. In 10 years, you might struggle just to find a gasoline stand.
1:32 Cooling fins on mid-drive electric motors, love it!
What do you normally ride. That is important when you say things like how top heavy the bike feels.