I’m curious about the new Sram transmission. When will you make a test episode for new Sram Axs ? SRAM says that new X0 transmission shifts perfectly underload motor power👍🏻 And says it is the best suitable shifter for E-MTB usage. What is the difference between the X0 and XX systems? What are the differences for X0 chain and XX chain besides the color? And the cassette differences. 🤔
@@tomquimby8669 having had 2 haibikes and being let down by their warranty department I wouldn't buy another regardless of how competitive their pricing is. Unfortunately you pay upfront for aftercare but it's worth every penny.
@@bazzleskizzle Sorry to hear you had problems with your bike, many people do it seems and I can accept that you hope to get good service for the money. I however buy Bulls and warranty even after it expires was still honored for an expensive 700 euro battery replacement. that builds brand loyalty. When buying a bike I work from the base up the range till I get what I need then forget going further up the range as the functional improvements tend to be minimal.
47 years old, ride weight of 94.5kg, two plates and 8 screws in my left ankle that aches every morning. Bottom line…. If it wasn’t for my Levo, I wouldn’t be riding. Period. My e-bike might be literally extending my life.
You are the exact type of rider I am happy e bikes exist for. My dad is the same, he had a massive superbike crash almost a decade ago and has half a metal leg. I can cope just fine on my none powered enduro bike but without a motor there is no chance he's keeping with me. To me the problem is that these bikes aren't really marketed accurately. It makes us non emtb riders feel a bit left out when im trying to buy some fox 38s but they are all being ridden by older blokes who for want of a better phrase; aren't good enough to ride them, but because ebikes are where the money is, thats where the parts are. It gets weird when there's people like in the comments who openly have no physical ailment but 'couldn't ride without my ebike'. Think they'd be better with surrons ngl
@@mcspiffington I use to think the same. However, I had the opportunity to have a go on a Rail about 12 months ago. The ride was on a route specifically designed for eMTBs in my local trails. As a rider my skill level is above average (lots of practice), but I found this ride was a new set of challenges that I wasn't fully equipped for. So now I have a Rail and a Fuel Ex, both ridden as much as each other. I've also changed my trail building to include eMTB lines where suitable, usually optional A lines for assents.
I live in the Australian tropics and lucky enough to have both trek fuels so love my fuel Exe 9.7 in the hot weather, as 70 kms is easy work in summer any day. But also love my 2018 fuel Ex 9.8, it’s got some mods with 150mm out front and a progressive coil out back and going down hill, or doing shuttles or travelling by air easily to places like Tassie it’s the bomb. I think they both have a place. I do prefer my analog fuel from the point of playfulness, sharper handling and packing up for air traveling, I’m always quicker on it everywhere but the uphill bits 😂but my Ebike is also amazing for getting more runs in less time everyday all year round. I’m fortunate I can keep both, but if I had to have only one at 60 years old and 80kgs living in the place I do I’d truthfully ride the ebike more often during the year than the analog for sure.
I said this before, I love these videos. Colours, design and pace are very pleasing. They are not such a hectic experience as it has become the standard nowadays. Thank you guys
You forgot to put into consideration the age of the rider ….. I will peddle next to my father happily although he has a battery… biggest advantage of e-bikes …. We can go full power together 😊
A 'full power' eMTB doesn't make it a 'different sport', or change anything unless you want it to... You can ride an 85Nm bike at half power (ie. Trail and not Turbo) if that is all you want/need - the difference is you also have the option of some extra assistance for the really steep climbs. The onus is always on the rider to decide how much (if any) assistance is required or desired for a given trail/ride.
@Anonymous One yes - that is pretty much what Orbea did/does with the Rise of course (by limiting the regular Shimano motor to 60Nm with their RS tune) - personally I'd find it frustrating not to have the option of having the full 85Nm available for the odd time I might want it.
@@yodapig Hey, I do own the Rise H, and you can switch the Nm cap and set it to 85. Using the official Orbea app, not voiding the warranty ofc. The whole RS Shimano version is just the software settings, but in essencial it's a full motor. And when you add the extender, you got battery capacity of nearly 800 Wh (costing you 1.4kg of bike weight) making it proper full fat trail bike. I think it's a great bike concept overall for modding it to your needs. cheers!
I’m 53 and now riding the the Rail 9.8XT and a game changer coming from a Nukeproof Mega elite. Yes it’s an heavier bike, but helps with it being more planted in the corners, but opens up the doors to other adventures that would have been impossible to do before. The Rail does what it says on the top bar RAIL, and still awesome at the bike parks and less chance of being blown in the air….. it’s a no brainier so get Railing folks 🙌🏼
It really depends upon the type of riding and level of fitness or age or any physical ailments. I own a levo sl and analog enduro, trail and DH. I'm 52. I enjoy the ebike for long rides and for climbing. If I have lift assist, the analog DH or Enduro are awesome.
I'm in my 60s and ride 10,000 miles a year. 95% on non emtbs. I'm so fed up with motor faults (e010 Shimano) and the low battery range. They are great fun for short local rides but if you're going on a mtb holiday or trip take an analogue bike every time and you won't miss any fun.
Congrats on fitness level, and also - well wealthiness? Cos' you have time to train, eat always wisely and at the same time, therefore you do have 'results'. Good for you.
Here in the US, I just bought a Specialized Turbo Levo Comp Alloy on their big 25% off sale for $5250. Good deals are beginning to appear now with the economic downturn and all of the cycling companies laying off a large portion of employees.
Made a good point about hitting the downhill, On a full fat the climbing is obviously minimum effort but descending is just as physical and in theory you would be doing more descending which would make up for the easy climbing! I had a Kenevo SL and swapped to a Pole Voima and do way more riding in a day then I would on my SL! It’s a similar jump from an analog bike to my SL really.
I hired an analogue full suspension bike from coed y brenin in the UK just to try full suspension, the suspension was brilliant but I couldn't wait to get off it and get back on my hardtail emtb, now bought a full suspension emtb as well and love both
I used to ride an Evil Insurgent MX. Absolutely loved riding it. The pain of the climbs and the thrill of the downs. Then last year I had two surgeries for slipped discs. My 3 time ACL reconstructed knee was also starting to nag. So I but the bullet and bought a Levo Pro. Now I'm loving my rides again and never have to hold any crew back anymore. Of course I intend to go back to riding a regular mtb again. But in the meantime, the Levo allows me to enjoy trails pretty much the same as before. 🥰
Just once I wish someone would make a video useful to people in the Midwest USA where we don’t have the big mountains but rather short punchy climbs and lots and lots of turns in flatter tight trails. I have been trying to decide between that powerhouse rail or the svelte exe. Loved the power of the rail because it reminded me of my old dirt bikes (motorcycles) but not sure how it would feel tossing it around for 3 hours. Yeah you guys always say take test rides but the dealers don’t do that here; it’s parking lot “rides” 😢
Personally I love hard core analog hard tails but I’ve converted to E-bike. To keep on riding my knees are damaged due to an accident years ago I will always ride an e mountain bike now no going back to an analog bike
I’m new to your channel but really enjoying your style. I’m not a spring chicken:) so a bit excited to try something new! The Fuel May be a good middle ground for me!
96 kilos, 50 years young with a not indifferent hip problem. I ride two analogue bikes, one being a 26er. I love the look of the trek exe and would buy one in a heartbeat if I had the money, but at the moment can’t invest in an ebike. Don’t let the weight fool you though, I do a lot of powerlifting and since starting two years ago have put about 5 kilos of muscle on my legs, which has helped my riding enormously. I can’t afford an ebike for now, but will get one eventually, but the trek exe style, I still like riding and feeling like I’m actually putting the effort in.
I've got a full power Levo and a Kenevo SL. I actually bought the SL for longer rides out alone. I love full power but for long rides out and commuting it doesn't require any of the body movements if a low power or acoustic bike. What I mean is the side to side actions and the standing up to pull away etc. This has lead to being more achey after that sort of ride on the FF. I'll agree with Steve, the calorie count is the same if the rides are the same length in time but not if they're the same length in distance. Now the FF does have it's place for me as a pure uplift. You could say just stick the FF in eco but no, it's not the same and tbh I'm not mentally strong enough to ride it in anything but turbo. They both have their place if you have the means. If I could only have 1 bike it would be full power.
Not all riding areas allow ebikes so I have a Rail and a Fuel EX. If I could only have one, I would pick the Rail. Hard to beat powering uphill on technical terrain with the Rail.
SL Vs Full depends on the rider. If you’re 70kgs - get a SL. If you’re 100kgs, full fat all day long. It’s like a fat lad in a Fiat Cinquecento, or a midget in a monster truck. Horses for courses.
After a 10-year break, I rediscovered mountain biking two years ago and bought an Orbea Rise E-MTB (20Kg). Recently, I got an Orbea Oiz (10 kg) as well. When I compare the two, I realize that for me the E-MTB’s only advantage shows on trails with a lot of short, steep climbs. Going over them without losing too much speed is just awesome. Apart from that, I still prefer the Oiz without the assist because - with the exception of brutal climbs - it is faster and more agile.
I have got a Stumpjumper and have ridden it for the last few years and have loved it but I tried an e-bike and just had to have one. I got the fuel EXE. I think it makes trail rides so much more fun. You have more speed on flat trails and the climbs are easier. I also love that it's a little more discreet it doesn't make a lot of noise when you pass people. It certainly doesn't handle the same as my analog bike but it handles much better than a full fat. Where I live it's very Rocky and it handles The Rock's much better than my Stumpy. But I like how it still makes you work and running it in Eco you get just as much exercise. Then you always have the option for help when you need it.
Full power emtb, adapted for my disability, the difference between getting out on the trails and not. Everybody needs to find the bike that best suits their needs, we, as a mtb community need to drop the snobbery over this bikes only for this type of person and that bike is for that sort of person, this bike is only for trail riding, this one for jumps, most modern mtbs/emtbs are so capable and can be everything a rider needs it to be, just get out on it and enjoy the ride, and let others enjoy theirs.
I still ride my Giant Anthem X 29 since most of my region trails are XC oriented and I still race occasionally. My Giant Trance E+ 2 Pro 29 (20mph usa version) is getting more and more local time even though I mostly got it for trips. Every time I take it out I ride 2 or 3 times farther than I would have, the extra suspension leaves my old-ish (55) carcass a lot less beat up and the assist leaves my knees feeling fresh the next day. I rarely go above assist 2 (of 5) so I'm still putting the whip to myself, just not the near-vomit level I'd usually be at on some climbs. After about 300 miles (just got the Trance E+ in November and midwest usa winters severely limit trail time) on the longer travel/wheelbase I've noticed I push my Anthem a lot harder than I used to through tech sections so it is interesting to see progression on an eMtb transfer to an analog XC mtb.
I personally prefer light power ebikes for the sole reason of range anxiety. If you run out of power on those, they're still fairly light bikes, and you can just keep going without motor assist. Doing the same with a 25kg full power is not quite as fun. Plus, the stealthy look is always appreciated IMHO, also family travel with several bikes on a trailer hitch rack? At most they can load 75kg, so 3 full power ebikes reach that limit instantly, which is anxiety inducing while going 120km/h on the Autobahn. With light power bikes, you don't reach the rack limit at all, giving you some more peace of mind.
@@lukedangles-mckenzie2024 you can ride it in whatever mode you want.. at 26-27kg..that's not a bike, does not look like a bike and, most importantly, does not ride like a bike.
My Rail is derestricted. The bike really makes sense without the speed cutout and separates itself massively from the lightweight emtbs. It’s so much fun to ride, my Santa Cruz Hightower doesn’t get a look in.
It matters not what bike you choose, only that you get out and ride! For me, I would not ride an analog bike near as much so the Trek Rail is where I landed and would not change my decision at all!
I'm a lightweight rider at 60kg and 53yo. I have a Rail 7 eeb and a Nukeproof Mega. Iv found that it's just more fun on the eeb. Interestingly iv found that I have had exactly the same max heart rate on both bikes. I get more excited and push more on the eeb as opposed to a crazy hard workout climbing on the Analogue.
Like I tell all my ebike hating friends, I ride strictly for fun(I have a basement full of work out equipment I don’t use,lol) and fun for me is bombing downhill and getting back to the top as quick and painless as possible. And if you want fitness out of riding a ebike is still the perfect tool, turn it off and see what kind of workout it is or put it on eco and stay out there as long as you want and then put it on turbo when you’ve had enough and want to get back to the car/house. For me the only downside is they still aren’t allowed everywhere acoustic bikes are.
E-bikes are being push to market everyday it seems , but nobody is addressing the fact you stated you can’t ride them everywhere. They seem to fail to mention that fact in their marketing.
You aren't going to get more than about 3000 ft. of climbing from the EXe unless you bring an extra battery. I get about 2500 ft. of climbing and 2.5 hours using a combo of Eco and Trail modes.
I'm still not exactly sure what's considered a light EMTB these days. When I first bought my JAM2 Pro, 45lbs was considered light, in fact, one of the lightest.
The JAM2 now sits in the gray area between the two, in terms of weight. The real difference is in the motors. 30-60NM are :low power eMTBs, 80-110NM are 'hi-power" eMTBS. Weights are 35-45lbs for low power, 45-60 for hi-power.
@@XennialGuy That's what happens when you're the first of the 'light' power eMTBS. They were still trying to figure out what was needed. And I bet a lot of them still were under the 'more power' is always better mindset. So they got as much as possible into the bike.
@@vr4042 then I guess I've got the best of both worlds. 378KW native keeps the weight down, and it feels more like a steely MTB. For longer trips I can just snap on the extended battery which doubles it to 756KW. I've never felt like I needed more power, I've always felt the e8000 was underrated and actually delivered more power than they claimed.
So, £4500. Would a "lightweight emtb be light enough to bother or should I go full fat? I< got an xc and a 150 Trail/enduro for uplifting and need something for, say, Cannock, Dalby, FOD, etc
Just like the split between XC/AM/Enduro/DH, eMTBS re split now as Low Power=XC/AM, Hi-Power=Endor/DH. With the power aiding in climbing for big downhills, not to mention the weight and travel more suited for DH. eMTB XC can even go down to something like the Orbea Gain, as a 'gravel' bike, but also a very light XC. Whichever riding you like, is probably the main consideration.
@@gesundheitstips2197 No, eMTBS have not quite specialized as much as analog bikes have. But many of the low/mid power eMTBs are VERY capable. And some of the hi-power are getting lighter. So, as they close in, either one can be used for enduro. The new Giant TranceX looks capable. Or maybe adding a 150mm fork to the Orbea Rise.
@@vr4042 Probably true. It’s just that having a motor and the bike being more heavy than my acoustic bike, it would feel weird if it has less travel. Also I find 160-170mm travel and a 27,5 wheels for me the best. It’s not impossible, but not many bikes left.
If you're heavy forget it for uplift. I'm 110kg and have both FF and SL. You have to work the SL to climb hills. The FF at least allows you to recover some on the climb. The SL will allow you to ride up hills that MTB riders are walking up though.
@@bazzleskizzle I agree, TurboSL (35Nm mahle) and Haibike Flyon (120Nm) - owning both 'weakest' eMTB at 35Nm 320Wh and strongest 120Nm + 630Wh. Both are/can be an effort, as soon as mud and snow comes, 120Nm and 2,8+ tyres give a good grip and quite good excercise too, also 'a balancing excercise' - it is soo slippery. Also I need to drag those upstairs so: 26.7kg for Haibike vs 20.14kg for alloy TurboSL - quite a difference. The third You ask? Well .. Cannondale Scalpel SE 2 - 12.7kg, Full-sus (XTR groupset is awaiting installation) - this one is used during really june, july and summer months. It's been 4 yrs now since I've re-started riding, and I am still 'recovering' my confidence and fitness - but now I can do it with trips of real signifficance - like 60km on 320Wh battery of LevoSL in Eco. Having a choice is always better than be left with no choice.
Since the e-MTBs are limited to 250W by law I think eventually the technological evolution will make us go towards light full power bikes and if you want it even lighter you just take a smaller battery
Thank you for this very interesting review. But please, you are talking to an international audience. Could it be possible to express yourself in kilograms and kilometres? That really would be great.
I throw up in my mouth every time I hear the prices. 20 years ago $2000 was near top of the line, now bottom is $2,000 and top is $11,000. That just doesn’t match inflation or innovation. It’s just companies gouging their customers and laughing all the way to the bank.
It's a bit lazy to categorize so many bikes as "full power". There are so many different levels of power available. It's more like a ladder of power levels.
I too Have an E bike Whyte e-180rs came from Analog but Jesus those prices !!!!! not getting another ebike now think about this you can get a 2020 Honda Fireblade 1000rr for around 8000 grand and look at the amount of metal and components, and with change in your pocket. same issues with road bikes pinarello carbon 12000 grand phahhhhhh
if you want to go electric but still feel like a mountainbiker, then a mid power bike is all what you will ever need(and possibly, a dedicated bike-park rig) If you don't care about how a bike feels under you and you just want go in the trails/mountains up and down in the lowest time interval.. then go for a full EB; just be honest to yourself and recognize it is a totally different sport. In my personal case, as I live in a mostly flat ground area.. a full EB isn't justified... but less and less time for riding(and so, less and less training) take its toll so, I could foresee in my future a mid power one; ideally, something like a kenevo SL just with a better and quieter motor. I'll totally understand EBs.. especially if one lives at the bottom of a mountain. Time spent on trails is time spent on trails and on a full EB, you can ride at least twice as much(but usually more) than you can on a normal bike; but, because full EBs behave differently on the trails.. for me, at least, it is not the same sport and activity. 40kms on my normal bike with 3000ft ascension and more than 6000ft on the downs left me exhausted(I had to drink a cola to get into my senses before enjoying the post-ride beers). On the same time, my friend on his Rail was at 60% battery and had much much less effort put into the act of riding.. also being able to spend more energy on the downs. Being exhausted after 4-5 hours on the bike is one of the best feelings you can have... the satisfaction of knowing you've "battle" with the mountain. Doing the same on a EB is just straight enjoyment.. basically being at least 50% less effort involved. Like I have said.. if I would live at the bottom of a mountain.. I'd have to think very hard if I should get a mid power or a full EB. Living in the flats.. there isn't really a need to make that decision now but, in the future, probably a mid power 170-180mm that could double as my bike-park bike would be a choice I would take. If you don't have any big hills or mountains on a 200 miles range from your house but, you want or you already have a full EB.. then, not only that your are not a real mtb-er, you're not even a real rider. It is plain easy social media self-gratitude... basically, you're a snob.
@@eugenux how can you claim to be a proper mtber when there's no hills near you. Surely you're a Roady with fat tyres and flat bars. Maybe cyclo-cross at a push.
@@bazzleskizzle I actually did have a gravel bike and a 9.3 kgs cross-country bike at one point, beside my 170-180mm big bike. I sold them though and now I ride my big bike everywhere ...beer with buddies/friends, urban trails, xc rides, I ride everywhere the same only big bike on assegai and dhr2. 🤷🏿♂️ I see lots of big electrics on the same xc trails I used to do either with my xc bike or with my gravel... thus, yes, of course, I have the higher moral ground. 🤷🏿♂️😊😉
There is a rather large hole in the logic here - the assumptions are all based on covering a greater distance (up and down) with an e-bike versus an analog bike. This is hugely subjective - and I would argue that instead of seeing multiple laps (which I am sure does happen, just not as much as marketers would make you think) you actually just see faster laps and laps being done by those who would normally struggle. Granted this is as subjective as Steve's comments, but worth considering it in the wider context of different rider abilities. I'm also going to just remind the haters that this is a decision faced by a very very very very small percentage of bike owners in the world... so don't take it too seriously eh?
If your goal is to do 60mins you'll do more distance on an emtb but burn roughly the same cals. If your goal is to do 25 miles you be done in less time on the emtb and burn less cals. 1 hour on emtb, SL emtb, MTB, road bike and stationary bike all burn roughly the same cals as your personal output capability remains the same. So as long as you're trying there's really nothing in it as far as time goes. Digging deep is diggin deep after all. As a side note I find it really easy to over do it on the emtb compared to other bikes which I'd attribute to spending more time at threshold due to the assistance.
@@bazzleskizzle fair points, though minor correction - you will burn the same calories 'if' your output remains the same - if you ride 60 mins in boost with a light pedal you are not going to burn the same as 60 mins analog at a high cadence (all else remaining equal) Interesting point about over doing it on the emtb - do you think this is because you know there is an assistance limit and you want to maximise the support (whereas on an analog bike it is just all you)?
15000 euro for a bike? You guys livin on planet Earth? I payed 5850 euro for my Cube ActionTeam 160 new, two months ago and my coworkers said im crazy. Ebikes are fun but world is full of thieves.
When the price of an ebike is $3000 more than a top of the line dirt bike, you know the industry has a problem. It just keeps this sport only for the wealthy.
@embn 13k come on!! ..it's a joke..EMTB is for the rich these days!! The bike industry has lost the plot..how much does it really cost?? @trekbikes obviously more than a Mx @ktm
What type of bike do you think is best and why? Would you have another style of bike if possible?
I’m curious about the new Sram transmission. When will you make a test episode for new Sram Axs ?
SRAM says that new X0 transmission shifts perfectly underload motor power👍🏻
And says it is the best suitable shifter for E-MTB usage.
What is the difference between the X0 and XX systems?
What are the differences for X0 chain and XX chain besides the color?
And the cassette differences.
🤔
I note that Chris left your high priced channel and now rides a 5.6k Haibike allmtn 3. there is a message for you in that.
@@tomquimby8669 having had 2 haibikes and being let down by their warranty department I wouldn't buy another regardless of how competitive their pricing is. Unfortunately you pay upfront for aftercare but it's worth every penny.
I have a Levo Alloy Comp and a Kenevo SL Comp both 2022 models. Two totally different beasts.
I also have a 2021 Haibike Allmtn 6 and a 2019 Nduro 3.0
@@bazzleskizzle Sorry to hear you had problems with your bike, many people do it seems and I can accept that you hope to get good service for the money. I however buy Bulls and warranty even after it expires was still honored for an expensive 700 euro battery replacement. that builds brand loyalty. When buying a bike I work from the base up the range till I get what I need then forget going further up the range as the functional improvements tend to be minimal.
47 years old, ride weight of 94.5kg, two plates and 8 screws in my left ankle that aches every morning. Bottom line…. If it wasn’t for my Levo, I wouldn’t be riding. Period. My e-bike might be literally extending my life.
You are the exact type of rider I am happy e bikes exist for. My dad is the same, he had a massive superbike crash almost a decade ago and has half a metal leg. I can cope just fine on my none powered enduro bike but without a motor there is no chance he's keeping with me.
To me the problem is that these bikes aren't really marketed accurately. It makes us non emtb riders feel a bit left out when im trying to buy some fox 38s but they are all being ridden by older blokes who for want of a better phrase; aren't good enough to ride them, but because ebikes are where the money is, thats where the parts are. It gets weird when there's people like in the comments who openly have no physical ailment but 'couldn't ride without my ebike'. Think they'd be better with surrons ngl
@@mcspiffington I use to think the same. However, I had the opportunity to have a go on a Rail about 12 months ago. The ride was on a route specifically designed for eMTBs in my local trails. As a rider my skill level is above average (lots of practice), but I found this ride was a new set of challenges that I wasn't fully equipped for. So now I have a Rail and a Fuel Ex, both ridden as much as each other. I've also changed my trail building to include eMTB lines where suitable, usually optional A lines for assents.
I live in the Australian tropics and lucky enough to have both trek fuels so love my fuel Exe 9.7 in the hot weather, as 70 kms is easy work in summer any day. But also love my 2018 fuel Ex 9.8, it’s got some mods with 150mm out front and a progressive coil out back and going down hill, or doing shuttles or travelling by air easily to places like Tassie it’s the bomb. I think they both have a place. I do prefer my analog fuel from the point of playfulness, sharper handling and packing up for air traveling, I’m always quicker on it everywhere but the uphill bits 😂but my Ebike is also amazing for getting more runs in less time everyday all year round. I’m fortunate I can keep both, but if I had to have only one at 60 years old and 80kgs living in the place I do I’d truthfully ride the ebike more often during the year than the analog for sure.
I said this before, I love these videos. Colours, design and pace are very pleasing. They are not such a hectic experience as it has become the standard nowadays. Thank you guys
You forgot to put into consideration the age of the rider ….. I will peddle next to my father happily although he has a battery… biggest advantage of e-bikes …. We can go full power together 😊
pedal vs peddle
A 'full power' eMTB doesn't make it a 'different sport', or change anything unless you want it to... You can ride an 85Nm bike at half power (ie. Trail and not Turbo) if that is all you want/need - the difference is you also have the option of some extra assistance for the really steep climbs. The onus is always on the rider to decide how much (if any) assistance is required or desired for a given trail/ride.
@Anonymous One yes - that is pretty much what Orbea did/does with the Rise of course (by limiting the regular Shimano motor to 60Nm with their RS tune) - personally I'd find it frustrating not to have the option of having the full 85Nm available for the odd time I might want it.
@@yodapig Hey, I do own the Rise H, and you can switch the Nm cap and set it to 85. Using the official Orbea app, not voiding the warranty ofc. The whole RS Shimano version is just the software settings, but in essencial it's a full motor. And when you add the extender, you got battery capacity of nearly 800 Wh (costing you 1.4kg of bike weight) making it proper full fat trail bike. I think it's a great bike concept overall for modding it to your needs. cheers!
I’m 53 and now riding the the Rail 9.8XT and a game changer coming from a Nukeproof Mega elite.
Yes it’s an heavier bike, but helps with it being more planted in the corners, but opens up the doors to other adventures that would have been impossible to do before. The Rail does what it says on the top bar RAIL, and still awesome at the bike parks and less chance of being blown in the air….. it’s a no brainier so get Railing folks 🙌🏼
It really depends upon the type of riding and level of fitness or age or any physical ailments. I own a levo sl and analog enduro, trail and DH. I'm 52. I enjoy the ebike for long rides and for climbing. If I have lift assist, the analog DH or Enduro are awesome.
I'm in my 60s and ride 10,000 miles a year. 95% on non emtbs. I'm so fed up with motor faults (e010 Shimano) and the low battery range. They are great fun for short local rides but if you're going on a mtb holiday or trip take an analogue bike every time and you won't miss any fun.
Congrats on fitness level, and also - well wealthiness? Cos' you have time to train, eat always wisely and at the same time, therefore you do have 'results'. Good for you.
This is great help in avoiding going into a bike shop selling Trek. Just checked my local bike shop that sell bulls and every bike is below 5k
Here in the US, I just bought a Specialized Turbo Levo Comp Alloy on their big 25% off sale for $5250. Good deals are beginning to appear now with the economic downturn and all of the cycling companies laying off a large portion of employees.
Made a good point about hitting the downhill, On a full fat the climbing is obviously minimum effort but descending is just as physical and in theory you would be doing more descending which would make up for the easy climbing! I had a Kenevo SL and swapped to a Pole Voima and do way more riding in a day then I would on my SL! It’s a similar jump from an analog bike to my SL really.
I hired an analogue full suspension bike from coed y brenin in the UK just to try full suspension, the suspension was brilliant but I couldn't wait to get off it and get back on my hardtail emtb, now bought a full suspension emtb as well and love both
I used to ride an Evil Insurgent MX. Absolutely loved riding it. The pain of the climbs and the thrill of the downs. Then last year I had two surgeries for slipped discs. My 3 time ACL reconstructed knee was also starting to nag.
So I but the bullet and bought a Levo Pro. Now I'm loving my rides again and never have to hold any crew back anymore. Of course I intend to go back to riding a regular mtb again. But in the meantime, the Levo allows me to enjoy trails pretty much the same as before. 🥰
Just once I wish someone would make a video useful to people in the Midwest USA where we don’t have the big mountains but rather short punchy climbs and lots and lots of turns in flatter tight trails. I have been trying to decide between that powerhouse rail or the svelte exe. Loved the power of the rail because it reminded me of my old dirt bikes (motorcycles) but not sure how it would feel tossing it around for 3 hours. Yeah you guys always say take test rides but the dealers don’t do that here; it’s parking lot “rides” 😢
This guy is just the best at what he does on RUclips period period..
Very kind praise 🙏
Personally I love hard core analog hard tails but I’ve converted to E-bike. To keep on riding my knees are damaged due to an accident years ago I will always ride an e mountain bike now no going back to an analog bike
I’m new to your channel but really enjoying your style. I’m not a spring chicken:) so a bit excited to try something new! The Fuel May be a good middle ground for me!
96 kilos, 50 years young with a not indifferent hip problem. I ride two analogue bikes, one being a 26er. I love the look of the trek exe and would buy one in a heartbeat if I had the money, but at the moment can’t invest in an ebike. Don’t let the weight fool you though, I do a lot of powerlifting and since starting two years ago have put about 5 kilos of muscle on my legs, which has helped my riding enormously. I can’t afford an ebike for now, but will get one eventually, but the trek exe style, I still like riding and feeling like I’m actually putting the effort in.
All bikes are awesome. ❤
I've got a full power Levo and a Kenevo SL. I actually bought the SL for longer rides out alone. I love full power but for long rides out and commuting it doesn't require any of the body movements if a low power or acoustic bike. What I mean is the side to side actions and the standing up to pull away etc. This has lead to being more achey after that sort of ride on the FF.
I'll agree with Steve, the calorie count is the same if the rides are the same length in time but not if they're the same length in distance.
Now the FF does have it's place for me as a pure uplift.
You could say just stick the FF in eco but no, it's not the same and tbh I'm not mentally strong enough to ride it in anything but turbo.
They both have their place if you have the means.
If I could only have 1 bike it would be full power.
I do the side to side and stand up when setting off, it's better for the drive train imo rather than just blasting off on turbo
Great video Steve, only missed the stick lol, cheers
Not all riding areas allow ebikes so I have a Rail and a Fuel EX. If I could only have one, I would pick the Rail. Hard to beat powering uphill on technical terrain with the Rail.
SL Vs Full depends on the rider. If you’re 70kgs - get a SL. If you’re 100kgs, full fat all day long.
It’s like a fat lad in a Fiat Cinquecento, or a midget in a monster truck. Horses for courses.
I'm lucky enough to have a Rail and a Fuel Ex. I ride both often, but the type of ride on each is very different, employing different skills.
After a 10-year break, I rediscovered mountain biking two years ago and bought an Orbea Rise E-MTB (20Kg). Recently, I got an Orbea Oiz (10 kg) as well. When I compare the two, I realize that for me the E-MTB’s only advantage shows on trails with a lot of short, steep climbs. Going over them without losing too much speed is just awesome. Apart from that, I still prefer the Oiz without the assist because - with the exception of brutal climbs - it is faster and more agile.
I have got a Stumpjumper and have ridden it for the last few years and have loved it but I tried an e-bike and just had to have one. I got the fuel EXE. I think it makes trail rides so much more fun. You have more speed on flat trails and the climbs are easier. I also love that it's a little more discreet it doesn't make a lot of noise when you pass people. It certainly doesn't handle the same as my analog bike but it handles much better than a full fat. Where I live it's very Rocky and it handles The Rock's much better than my Stumpy. But I like how it still makes you work and running it in Eco you get just as much exercise. Then you always have the option for help when you need it.
Full power emtb, adapted for my disability, the difference between getting out on the trails and not. Everybody needs to find the bike that best suits their needs, we, as a mtb community need to drop the snobbery over this bikes only for this type of person and that bike is for that sort of person, this bike is only for trail riding, this one for jumps, most modern mtbs/emtbs are so capable and can be everything a rider needs it to be, just get out on it and enjoy the ride, and let others enjoy theirs.
I still ride my Giant Anthem X 29 since most of my region trails are XC oriented and I still race occasionally. My Giant Trance E+ 2 Pro 29 (20mph usa version) is getting more and more local time even though I mostly got it for trips. Every time I take it out I ride 2 or 3 times farther than I would have, the extra suspension leaves my old-ish (55) carcass a lot less beat up and the assist leaves my knees feeling fresh the next day. I rarely go above assist 2 (of 5) so I'm still putting the whip to myself, just not the near-vomit level I'd usually be at on some climbs. After about 300 miles (just got the Trance E+ in November and midwest usa winters severely limit trail time) on the longer travel/wheelbase I've noticed I push my Anthem a lot harder than I used to through tech sections so it is interesting to see progression on an eMtb transfer to an analog XC mtb.
I personally prefer light power ebikes for the sole reason of range anxiety. If you run out of power on those, they're still fairly light bikes, and you can just keep going without motor assist. Doing the same with a 25kg full power is not quite as fun. Plus, the stealthy look is always appreciated IMHO, also family travel with several bikes on a trailer hitch rack? At most they can load 75kg, so 3 full power ebikes reach that limit instantly, which is anxiety inducing while going 120km/h on the Autobahn. With light power bikes, you don't reach the rack limit at all, giving you some more peace of mind.
@@lukedangles-mckenzie2024 you can ride it in whatever mode you want.. at 26-27kg..that's not a bike, does not look like a bike and, most importantly, does not ride like a bike.
That black and white section should've had Steve dressed in Plus 4's and aviator's goggles or something, that would've been class
My Rail is derestricted. The bike really makes sense without the speed cutout and separates itself massively from the lightweight emtbs. It’s so much fun to ride, my Santa Cruz Hightower doesn’t get a look in.
Same here man, it's really a different bike when deresitricted
It matters not what bike you choose, only that you get out and ride! For me, I would not ride an analog bike near as much so the Trek Rail is where I landed and would not change my decision at all!
@64 I prefer the rise over full powered it handles as good as my Hope
Switching between MTB and Full fat works for me. If I had to have a single bike I may go the lightweight eMTB route.
I'm a lightweight rider at 60kg and 53yo. I have a Rail 7 eeb and a Nukeproof Mega. Iv found that it's just more fun on the eeb. Interestingly iv found that I have had exactly the same max heart rate on both bikes. I get more excited and push more on the eeb as opposed to a crazy hard workout climbing on the Analogue.
I like both apples and oranges.
For me it's about having my family join in on rides
Like I tell all my ebike hating friends, I ride strictly for fun(I have a basement full of work out equipment I don’t use,lol) and fun for me is bombing downhill and getting back to the top as quick and painless as possible. And if you want fitness out of riding a ebike is still the perfect tool, turn it off and see what kind of workout it is or put it on eco and stay out there as long as you want and then put it on turbo when you’ve had enough and want to get back to the car/house. For me the only downside is they still aren’t allowed everywhere acoustic bikes are.
E-bikes are being push to market everyday it seems , but nobody is addressing the fact you stated you can’t ride them everywhere. They seem to fail to mention that fact in their marketing.
9:00 Wait, what? "[The EX] will roughly go up hill at the same speed" as the other 2 motorized? WTH?
You aren't going to get more than about 3000 ft. of climbing from the EXe unless you bring an extra battery. I get about 2500 ft. of climbing and 2.5 hours using a combo of Eco and Trail modes.
I'm still not exactly sure what's considered a light EMTB these days. When I first bought my JAM2 Pro, 45lbs was considered light, in fact, one of the lightest.
The JAM2 now sits in the gray area between the two, in terms of weight. The real difference is in the motors. 30-60NM are :low power eMTBs, 80-110NM are 'hi-power" eMTBS. Weights are 35-45lbs for low power, 45-60 for hi-power.
@@vr4042 My power is also in the gray area, 70NM.
@@XennialGuy That's what happens when you're the first of the 'light' power eMTBS. They were still trying to figure out what was needed. And I bet a lot of them still were under the 'more power' is always better mindset. So they got as much as possible into the bike.
@@vr4042 then I guess I've got the best of both worlds. 378KW native keeps the weight down, and it feels more like a steely MTB. For longer trips I can just snap on the extended battery which doubles it to 756KW. I've never felt like I needed more power, I've always felt the e8000 was underrated and actually delivered more power than they claimed.
So, £4500. Would a "lightweight emtb be light enough to bother or should I go full fat? I< got an xc and a 150 Trail/enduro for uplifting and need something for, say, Cannock, Dalby, FOD, etc
But how many feet do you actually get out of the Rail, climbing at 2800 feet an hour?
Just like the split between XC/AM/Enduro/DH, eMTBS re split now as Low Power=XC/AM, Hi-Power=Endor/DH. With the power aiding in climbing for big downhills, not to mention the weight and travel more suited for DH. eMTB XC can even go down to something like the Orbea Gain, as a 'gravel' bike, but also a very light XC. Whichever riding you like, is probably the main consideration.
I want a low to mid assist enduro or Freeride bike. Why not? The industry doesn't seem to cover me, maybe the new Transition will be the right bike.
@@gesundheitstips2197 No, eMTBS have not quite specialized as much as analog bikes have. But many of the low/mid power eMTBs are VERY capable. And some of the hi-power are getting lighter. So, as they close in, either one can be used for enduro. The new Giant TranceX looks capable. Or maybe adding a 150mm fork to the Orbea Rise.
@@vr4042 Probably true. It’s just that having a motor and the bike being more heavy than my acoustic bike, it would feel weird if it has less travel. Also I find 160-170mm travel and a 27,5 wheels for me the best. It’s not impossible, but not many bikes left.
Can the fuel ex-e be a realistic uplift replacement bike at a trail centre/bike park or does it depend on how heavy you are?
If you're heavy forget it for uplift. I'm 110kg and have both FF and SL. You have to work the SL to climb hills. The FF at least allows you to recover some on the climb. The SL will allow you to ride up hills that MTB riders are walking up though.
@@bazzleskizzle I agree, TurboSL (35Nm mahle) and Haibike Flyon (120Nm) - owning both 'weakest' eMTB at 35Nm 320Wh and strongest 120Nm + 630Wh. Both are/can be an effort, as soon as mud and snow comes, 120Nm and 2,8+ tyres give a good grip and quite good excercise too, also 'a balancing excercise' - it is soo slippery. Also I need to drag those upstairs so: 26.7kg for Haibike vs 20.14kg for alloy TurboSL - quite a difference. The third You ask? Well .. Cannondale Scalpel SE 2 - 12.7kg, Full-sus (XTR groupset is awaiting installation) - this one is used during really june, july and summer months. It's been 4 yrs now since I've re-started riding, and I am still 'recovering' my confidence and fitness - but now I can do it with trips of real signifficance - like 60km on 320Wh battery of LevoSL in Eco. Having a choice is always better than be left with no choice.
Since the e-MTBs are limited to 250W by law I think eventually the technological evolution will make us go towards light full power bikes and if you want it even lighter you just take a smaller battery
Every law here (Michigan) limits them to 750 watts no matter the class.
You are confusing me what is the difference with a analog bike is it an e-bike or not
The new 2023 Rail should be considered, that's the 2022 model
yet another good argument to have more than one bike 😁
Thank you for this very interesting review. But please, you are talking to an international audience. Could it be possible to express yourself in kilograms and kilometres? That really would be great.
13:25 Nobody except Steve mispronounces more names bontraJer. Listen to other people speak it's BONTRAGER GER NOT JER.
I throw up in my mouth every time I hear the prices. 20 years ago $2000 was near top of the line, now bottom is $2,000 and top is $11,000. That just doesn’t match inflation or innovation. It’s just companies gouging their customers and laughing all the way to the bank.
Can we sum it up as “power corrupts” or “mooooooar powaaaaar” as Jeremy Clarkson would say? 😂😂
It's a bit lazy to categorize so many bikes as "full power". There are so many different levels of power available. It's more like a ladder of power levels.
Bikes that aren’t E-bikes should not have E In their title , fkn nightmare this
For a leisure pursuit the bikes too expensive. £13k for a push bike ??? Come on who can justify that
I too Have an E bike Whyte e-180rs came from Analog but Jesus those prices !!!!! not getting another ebike now think about this you can get a 2020 Honda Fireblade 1000rr for around 8000 grand and look at the amount of metal and components, and with change in your pocket. same issues with road bikes pinarello carbon 12000 grand phahhhhhh
Hard to read without "." these.
if you want to go electric but still feel like a mountainbiker, then a mid power bike is all what you will ever need(and possibly, a dedicated bike-park rig)
If you don't care about how a bike feels under you and you just want go in the trails/mountains up and down in the lowest time interval.. then go for a full EB; just be honest to yourself and recognize it is a totally different sport.
In my personal case, as I live in a mostly flat ground area.. a full EB isn't justified... but less and less time for riding(and so, less and less training) take its toll so, I could foresee in my future a mid power one; ideally, something like a kenevo SL just with a better and quieter motor.
I'll totally understand EBs.. especially if one lives at the bottom of a mountain. Time spent on trails is time spent on trails and on a full EB, you can ride at least twice as much(but usually more) than you can on a normal bike; but, because full EBs behave differently on the trails.. for me, at least, it is not the same sport and activity. 40kms on my normal bike with 3000ft ascension and more than 6000ft on the downs left me exhausted(I had to drink a cola to get into my senses before enjoying the post-ride beers). On the same time, my friend on his Rail was at 60% battery and had much much less effort put into the act of riding.. also being able to spend more energy on the downs. Being exhausted after 4-5 hours on the bike is one of the best feelings you can have... the satisfaction of knowing you've "battle" with the mountain. Doing the same on a EB is just straight enjoyment.. basically being at least 50% less effort involved. Like I have said.. if I would live at the bottom of a mountain.. I'd have to think very hard if I should get a mid power or a full EB. Living in the flats.. there isn't really a need to make that decision now but, in the future, probably a mid power 170-180mm that could double as my bike-park bike would be a choice I would take. If you don't have any big hills or mountains on a 200 miles range from your house but, you want or you already have a full EB.. then, not only that your are not a real mtb-er, you're not even a real rider. It is plain easy social media self-gratitude... basically, you're a snob.
Honestly after reading that I'd say your last sentence actually applies to you.
@@bazzleskizzle it might but, at least I don't ride an electric bike while not having a hill or a mountain in sight.
@@eugenux and yet you still claim the high ground 😂
@@eugenux how can you claim to be a proper mtber when there's no hills near you. Surely you're a Roady with fat tyres and flat bars. Maybe cyclo-cross at a push.
@@bazzleskizzle I actually did have a gravel bike and a 9.3 kgs cross-country bike at one point, beside my 170-180mm big bike. I sold them though and now I ride my big bike everywhere ...beer with buddies/friends, urban trails, xc rides, I ride everywhere the same only big bike on assegai and dhr2. 🤷🏿♂️
I see lots of big electrics on the same xc trails I used to do either with my xc bike or with my gravel... thus, yes, of course, I have the higher moral ground. 🤷🏿♂️😊😉
There is a rather large hole in the logic here - the assumptions are all based on covering a greater distance (up and down) with an e-bike versus an analog bike. This is hugely subjective - and I would argue that instead of seeing multiple laps (which I am sure does happen, just not as much as marketers would make you think) you actually just see faster laps and laps being done by those who would normally struggle. Granted this is as subjective as Steve's comments, but worth considering it in the wider context of different rider abilities.
I'm also going to just remind the haters that this is a decision faced by a very very very very small percentage of bike owners in the world... so don't take it too seriously eh?
If your goal is to do 60mins you'll do more distance on an emtb but burn roughly the same cals. If your goal is to do 25 miles you be done in less time on the emtb and burn less cals.
1 hour on emtb, SL emtb, MTB, road bike and stationary bike all burn roughly the same cals as your personal output capability remains the same. So as long as you're trying there's really nothing in it as far as time goes. Digging deep is diggin deep after all.
As a side note I find it really easy to over do it on the emtb compared to other bikes which I'd attribute to spending more time at threshold due to the assistance.
@@bazzleskizzle fair points, though minor correction - you will burn the same calories 'if' your output remains the same - if you ride 60 mins in boost with a light pedal you are not going to burn the same as 60 mins analog at a high cadence (all else remaining equal)
Interesting point about over doing it on the emtb - do you think this is because you know there is an assistance limit and you want to maximise the support (whereas on an analog bike it is just all you)?
15000 euro for a bike? You guys livin on planet Earth? I payed 5850 euro for my Cube ActionTeam 160 new, two months ago and my coworkers said im crazy. Ebikes are fun but world is full of thieves.
Hitachi
Sick of seeing bicycles for the same price that I can buy 3 yamaha 250 r dirtbikes and not have to pedal crap and have more fun on
Just disgusting prices .. people forget its only a Bike🧐😂
When the price of an ebike is $3000 more than a top of the line dirt bike, you know the industry has a problem. It just keeps this sport only for the wealthy.
@embn 13k come on!! ..it's a joke..EMTB is for the rich these days!! The bike industry has lost the plot..how much does it really cost?? @trekbikes obviously more than a Mx @ktm
trek +specialized =overpriced+overhyped Orbea Rise=best value/fun for bucks
EMTB FOR ME. THX.......