I'm 55. Been a plumber since April 1994, self employed since January 2008. My knees have taken a beating over the last 30 yrs just from work. I'm not sending downhill like I'm 21yrs old. I really love my 2017 Giant E+ 1. Got it used. I still have my analog Giant Anthem X. But the emtb is great being full power with 80nm. But as always, to each his own and budget. Let's just enjoy our toys!!!!!
Same here, used to ride a Cannondale Trigger 1, full carbon everything including wheels, I bought the best bike i could afford to get me up those hills as easy as possible, but knee pain was too much for me (plumber for 25 years). Then bought a new full fat Levo 2 years ago and now I never get knee pain, like you, I am not looking to send it downhill or do jumps so full fat is perfect for this old timer 😂Still have the Cannondale but can't imagine I would ever ride it again 😪
At 62kg nearly back to my birth weight I prefer a heavy full power Emtb. I find my Trek EXe knocks me around much more on long 30min rock garden decent as my total weight is not enough to push me through. Much easier on my body with a heavier bike and 5mins faster on a 1hour climb and decent. Plus is being able to do it 3 times against once on the light bike. E=Mtb². If you want to go Cycling ride a 7kg road bike. If you want to have Fun ride a Emtb hard and fast. Lightweight bikes are for selling to non believers and Full Power bikes are for Fun Fun Fun.
You're right there and also lightweight bikes "one balls" are there ready to be full fat once the batteries and motors get smaller and lighter. Then what? 😳
The Rise is the perfect balance as you can get full power out of the motor (with ST Unlocker) but also the light weight. The problem is manufacturers have somehow concluded you can only have lightweight or full power, you can't have both!
Great debate and nice to hear different opinions with different riders. Think I am lucky and will have both light, full power and analogue....choose your weapon 😊
I think the guy in the middle of the vid hit the nail on the head- if you want to ride like you do on a mountain bike but have some assist on the ups and be able to get a lap in a little quicker, lightweight, mid power emtbs are great. Just understand that to get that real weight savings you’ll be spending about $5K more than the entry level model for the top spec one. If you want to push your riding further, take on new challenges, go deeper and steeper, rip gnar like never before, then get a full power emtb. Just recognize it for what it is- something different, and don’t think of the bike with the same mentality that you think of a mountain bike.
Well done , you have really confused Me 🤔Im someone who is just going to buy a E bikes , its taken me a year to decide to get one , after years of suffering road bikes rides in the Peak District ,😢 I think I’m going for full power as they are cheaper 😉 great channel 👍
Everyone of these comparison videos i have seen talks about the extreme ends of the spectrum. For example, the E Lyte 140 works at 17kg and the E160 RS at 27kg. The E Lyte in the video has been equipped with enduro tyres wheras it comes from the factory with lightweight cross country tyres so i'd be willing to bet that bike weighs closer to 20kg, especially when you add on a range extender. Not to mention, the average rider isn't spending 11k and you look at the lower spec bikes, they come standard closer to 20kg anyway which when you can buy something like a base carbon turbo levo that is around 22/23 kg it very quickly begins to make no sense whatsoever to buy a "lightweight" emtb.
Preach on brother. I’ve been saying the same thing since I was purchasing and made those comparos. The best thing about the lower power motors is the decreased drag of the motor.
Wow! Raw data from experienced people on this hot topic. Spot on video! 👍 I’m really on the fence between fat & mid power (+ range extender)… Rarely use Turbo, my average ride is about 50% of battery whereas the long adventure (100% battery) doesn’t really happen very often. Great content thanks!
I'm with Dave on this, as an ex motocrosser I feel at home in a full fat, the weight isn't an issue and the stability it brings makes me feel at home. Great to hear everyone views which goes to prove its a personal preference and you need to test ride to find what you prefer.
My full fat e bike is 22 kgs with big burly tyres on alloy wheels and a 720 battery. The sl version is only 3.5 kgs lighter with a 430 wt battery and carbon wheels. Its also way more money.
And the endless debate goes on …! The bottom line is what suits you. Yes, your weight, level of fitness, experience all are critical to the mix but I’m guessing if you took two identical riders in terms of the above backgrounds there is still the strong possibility they would still disagree - upshot is that we have more choice as to what suits us - win win 😎
I just bought a Cube one44. My first emtb and I really like it. I’m 90kg and dropping. It’s a revelation; getting back in to mountain biking after a few years of losing interest. Trails that used to kill me (fitness) are an absolute cinch. I’m still working as hard but riding faster and further. I don’t agree they ride like an analogue bike. They are still far heavier and it’s noticeable but the benefits to me in my 50s outweigh the downsides. I’m a fan…. and I didn’t expect to be
Got a trek fuel Exe absolutely love it still a pretty fit rider as have a analogue HT, but it allows me to get out for those quick power hours where I wouldn’t bother getting the normal bike off the rack for that time frame and it also feels very similar to my old full suss win win 👌
👍I also Love my heavier first full power Emtb Canyon spectral ON 9.0 2019, but now with my Specialized SL 35Nm I learned me to quickly choose easier track choices when climbing and if it stops, it is easier to carry or lead😂
Personally I would rather a full power bike. You can always turn the power down on a full power bike, if you are at the max on a low power bike and need more power, you are knackered.
It's more about how the lighter bike rides, a full power on lower power still feels heavy and handles differently from a light bike. I went from full power to light weight and much prefer the ride, much more fun and the power is more than enough for me. The full power felt more like a motorbike, each to their own though.
@@andrewsutton1657 not really my problem is a dodgy knee that's been dislocated several times through playing too much football throughout my childhood and late teens, and on some days gives little to no pain after around 30 miles, while on another day being really painful after several hundred yards. Maybe rather than assuming a person using an ebike is being lazy, or old father time is catching up with them, consider other reasons.
👍"handling precision" with one with a heavier bike is worse than with a light bike, I guess that's why I and other former mountain bikers end up choosing a light Emtb. + that I now personally compete against cycling as long as possible in mixed terrain on one charge of the bike's battery. I currently have 5 super light bikes, of which 3 Emtb, 1 Orbea Rise, 2 Specialized SL, 1 Specialized Enduro, 1 Specialized Epik, 5 range extenders of which I only used one for the Orbean for tours with a backpack and food with me for to enjoy nature😋. ❤I LOVE THIS EMTB LIFE❤
I just rode my full power Ibis Oso on some of the gnarliest, slow pedal tech around. Put it in Tour mode and it handles as precisely as my SC Bronson. And then when I faced a technical 45 degree uphill- put it in Emtb mode and it has the power to get me up. Plus the boring climbing trail is about 5 mins faster on Emtb setting than it is for the guys on “light” emtbs on Turbo. I started riding mtbs in 1990 btw, bmx and freestyling in the 80s before that. I’ll only go to a lighter emtb when I’m older and no longer have the upper body strength, or when the $8K models are more than a 5 lb difference in weight compared to a full power, which when you compare with the same components is about the current weight difference for $8K bikes.
@@dadventuretv2538 👍We are different😘 I Love climbing, are 59 years old in a good condition, weighs 79kg and is 187cm tall. I'm not racing against any time, only how far and how long I can go on the small 320Wh battery, which sits on my half price frame kit Specialized SL 35Nm I built (I build or rebuild my own bikes). The only logical sense of changing from a heavy Emtb to a light one is if you are not overweight yourself or if you want to "buy" motivation to lose weight😊
@@kentnilsson9757 I thought the reason to buy a lightweight emtb was because they handle so precisely? Now I guess it’s to lose weight? Not sure I buy that when you ride em like I do. The climbs I am talking about doing cannot be done on lightweight emtbs- they literally do not have enough power. I know, I’ve tried em or watched friends try em. I’m talking about the kind of stuff usually reserved for moto bikes. In fact, I’ve actually started to ride some moto trails. And I think you misunderstood my point as to climbing that boring trail faster. The benefit of getting to the top faster is to get the boredom over quicker and get more laps in. In 6 laps I’ll save 30 mins. That equates to two more laps up and down than on a lightweight emtb. So you burn your calories using more energy to get to the top. I burn my calories getting in 2 more laps of fun. They’re both good, but like you said, different.
Well given that I’ve sent my 53 lb full power Ibis Oso down 40, 49 and 55 degree DHs that are loose and full of rocks and roots and multiple compressions and drops (Frederick Watershed- The Nose, Albatross, Creampie, Hoedown and PL), I’d have to disagree with the statement that full power emtbs are too fast in the steeps. I do agree they pick up more speed, but the joy of a full power motor is that you can have big 220 mm rotors with full power DH brakes and the heaviest casing, knobbiest and grippiest tires out there to help you stop. And IMO, that weight feels great in the gnarly steeps full of multiple compressions bc the bike doesn’t get pinballed around. Also have to agree with Dave- there is something about a properly designed full power emtb where it just flies and the weight just disappears. Well except for what you’ll feel in your shoulders the next day. Lol.
My main issue with the SLs is battery management. Owned the rise, sl 1 2 and ksl all whilst still owning a FF levo, and all the sls have come and gone after the honeymoon period. Theyre amazing if your riding solo but they just cant gel well with full power bikes. I have a normal bike group and a emtb group the sls put you in the middle. Normal bikes? your to fast or its to easy for you, yes you can turn it down but then whats the point. FF your working harder and draining your battery in doing so. I love SLs and think they will develop to be the norm, but at the moment your spending the same money you would on a Full power for less of an experience. If you are still a active normal biker get a full fat emtb and keep your mtb. Two different experiences which warrants the two bikes. If you ride mostly solo or have super fit normal bike mates get a SL, but if any of those mates get a full power prepare for your SL enjoyment to quickly end.
Good to hear Dave's view. I'm keeping my Levo sl v1 as it's ace but keen to get a full fat for that planted strength flying down the mountain trails here in Cham (I bounce around all over on my sl & Mach 6 naturally aspirated) !
I'm the last guy in the video mate. I've ridden ebikes for over 10 years and had tons of them, tried to go back to normal bikes and had light weight ebikes like I said. Not all full fat ebikes are great just like not all sl bikes are great but something about the Whytes, they're just amazing on jumps and grip like nothing on earth. Just anticipate the weight in corners and you'll love full fats.
I'm not sure I like the fact that because I've just bought a full power e bike, I'm now a lazy mtb rider. I've always had analogue mtb's, but my son is now addicted to mtb and rides an analogue bike. He enjoys the tow up the hills, and I don't mind as he can ride for longer.
I'm in the market for an emtb but with astronomical purchase cost and the sea of choice of spec, power and brands out there I'm very concerned about making the wrong choice. This is the first Embn video in a while that gives honest feedback rather than feeling like a sales pitch for the featured brand in the video.
If your on the fence as to which one to buy, I can definitely recommend the orbea rise. I was in the same position and glad I didn't buy a full fat bike. Mine weights about 20kg but I'm using an XL
there are so many high quality bikes it's not possible to make a catastrophic " mistake". go for a bike that has a big service and parts network and has been shown to be reliable .
I nearly went for a Rise but heard so many bad stories about people trying to get battery replacements. They don't use a standard off the shelf battery so you have to source through them, however they won't sell you one so I'd you're out of warranty you have to get a bike shop to order one from them on your behalf
I recently upgraded from a full power Cube Stereo Hybrid 750TM with the latest Bosch CX motor to a mid power Mondraker Dune RR with Bosch SX motor. After a year or two on the Cube, I found my main interest ended up being in more steep technical Enduro, and handling the Cube (or any 'full fat' eMTB) in those conditions is almost a different discipline due to the weight. So I initially bought an analog Enduro geometry Vitus Sommet to trial an Enduro bike and absolutely loved it. After several months and much searching, I chose the Mondraker to replace the Cube. My first impressions of the Mondraker Dune are incredible. Great balance, agility, playfulness etc. Feels just like by analog bike, but with a motor to assist in the climbs. There are so many RUclips videos commenting on weight over performance and it can really be confusing. If you have little to no fitness, you want a bike that can power you wherever you want to go with the least amount of energy, and you are NOT looking for agility/playfulness, go with Full Fat. Most are a point and shoot type experience and great in open mountain type situations especially. But if you want to keep the agility/playfulness of an analog bike, with little to no difference in riding style, mid power with lower weight (sub 20KG at least) is the way to go. We are seeing more and more full power bikes coming in
I have been riding a full power 85nm Trek Rail for a few months. It is surprisingly nimble on tighter technical down hill tracks. The braking needs to be earlier than an acoustic bike or lighter e bike but takes no time to figure out when to hit the brakes. The 4 piston calipers are quiet powerful. The bonus of the weight is it's amazing stability and being so sure footed on very rough trails taming sections that used to be very challenging. It is such a blast on this bike. In eco mode the battery can last 75km or more with 1500m of climbing! I can also understand why riders enjoy the lighter more natural feeling e bikes, there really are so many options with a bike suited for everyone
Question: would lightweight eMTB's make a lot of sense for me? I'm about 100kg of mostly muscle so 25kg is 1/4 of my bodyweight just like a regular 15kg enduro bike is for a 60kg rider. I have no experience with eMTB, but weight doesn't bother me at all on regular MTB's. I'm considering an eMTB next and would mostly use it to make the boring XC trails around my home more fun and to also self-shuttle enduro trails during trips. I couldn't care less about the cardio of MTB - I'm here to go fast and feel nimble on descents
Problem with light emtb is that you will have a short ride time. Unless those light emtb get more power and keep same weight, i sont see a reason to buy it. That being said they have their place in the market and might be good for someone not looking for alot of power, but only getting uphill to then downhill. I would certainly not go for low power emtb atm
Nice one, Steve 👍 I was very much the same, fat v light 😀 so out of the 2, I tested the bit, don't like about the fat is the limit before hitting the wall, on the other hand light ebike don't seem to have a limit to go faster 😀 the 2 ebike I tested was Whyte E-160 RS v E-Lyte 140 works 😀 a different world
I've got a full power Levo and 60 NM orbea rise, the levo was my first e mtb and I had to learn to ride again because the power is huge, makes you smile going up hill and is awsome on flowy rooty downs lone choose isnt as important it just blasts through, I rode a Levo SL and found it didnt have enough power then I got the Rise it completely different, adequate power way more fun in the tight single track and easier on the upper body. They both have their place and both are fun but I find myself grabbing the Orbea Rise 90% of time
@@Daffy0208 I added the range extender to my M10 rise for the first time on Friday. I've had it a year and never used it. We did 25 miles and with the extender added, I still came back with 3 bars on the normal battery. I could easily get over 35 miles using trail and eco mode.
"Because it's easier to manouver a lighter bike..." Just to put into context: We're talking 6 to 4 kg difference, at 25km/h, meaning that the energy is quiet low, and not the same as do the same with motorcycles! The speed Moto goes, increases a LOT Cinetic Energy, so weight difference are quite noticeable Also... it seems ebikes, are attracting Zap-Sportsman (Zap from zapping channels while seated on the sofa!). These type of riders, never had physical stamina, and thing everything should be easy. Earing the weight debate, is like earing someone with a XC bike, talking about how hard is to turn DH bikes! LoL! The only weight I can notice, is really when you need to lift the ebike, or you need to pedal uphill without assitance. In this type of situations, anyone can dectected a ±500grm increase on any Bike (the ones that don't have any kind of assistance!)
I’ve ridden full fats and mids they both have their place for sure being an old motor cycle dirt bike rider I prefer the mids for my mountain bike experience when I get on a full fat I often wish I was on my motorcycle So the mid is a more genuine mountain bike experience for me personally 😁🤙🏽
Interesting way of looking at it! Is it the weight or the power that makes you wish you were on a motorbike instead? What mid assist bike have you got at the moment? 🤘
@@embn Hi mate a bit of both I reckon, weight and power, I feel when I’m on a full fat E mtb that it’s often feels more motorcycle like than mountain bike ish so I’d rather just ride the motorcycle with much more power and better suspension and frankly often cheaper to purchase, lots of electric motorcycles coming that are quiet lightweight and significantly more powerful than EMTB and cost similar amounts so the main advantage of full fat e-bikes is more places to ride at present but this advantage may soon be less significant as motorcycle trails may begin to reopen near urban areas due to the significant noise reductions. I often hire a full fat too quickly scope out a new riding areas or if riding is more gravitationally oriented for self shuttles and no doubt these bikes rock on machine built bike park type trails and hard charging through gnarly rock gardens. I own two Trek fuels a meat powered Ex9.8 coil rear and an EXe 9.7 with fox 38s set at 160 mm I bought the EXe to enable more hot weather and quick after work rides “live in the tropics” “crazy hot and humid” with trying to get some fitness training in the mix and it works brilliantly in this role. When I’m out by myself or riding with mates on analogue bikes which is most of my riding I have no range issues, I mainly enjoy riding technical single track which is most of my local trails so nimbleness and playfulness is important to me when I head out with the full fat crowd I do have to battery manage regularly as it’s so tempting to go full power to keep up and often rinse the TQs small battery. I’ve come home a few times pedalling a dead bike and thankfully this is not to big a chore on a mid but am looking at a range extender for those chasing full fat days not sure how often I’d use it though in the scheme of things. I love that it’s quite I can carry it easily and let’s me quickly and quietly get away from all the noise and bluster if you know what I mean 😁🤙
the one fairly consistent factor of lightweight low power vs full power is AGE and or fitness.. most riders that are weight weenies are young and powerful . a young fit rider can easily compensate for low power with their own physical power . as one becomes old (different for each person ) it's no longer so easy to get up those hills , so full power bikes correct that problem . all other consideration tend to be tics and aesthetics.
Not really. The guy who trains for EWS here uses a full power ebike for rest days and rides a normal enduro most of the time. In my case I have more fitness using a full bike ebike than ever because it makes zone 2 riding actually interesting. And usually the enduro bros who ride up and down don't exactly train for FTP. So also doesn't work that way either.
spoken like a young fit person . that opinion will alter as you reach the age where your mind says "let's go " and your body says " oh hell NO" . there is no way for a young person to understand this until the reality of physical decline sets in . i use to think that if i kept fit my whole life that age wouldn't be a factor. well, at 78 , so much for that fantasy . your argument is most definitely based on your age
Sometimes I miss the feel of a more natural ride, especially when I'm trying to bunnyhop but I also love the pure power of the 85Nm when I'm too tired to give a lot of effort myself going uphills.
I have been riding bikes for three decades and more... and I've ridden freeride 20+ kilos bikes in early 2000, the "planted" effect is a feeling that I love when I ride a bike, the stability on speed and cornering dued to the low center of gravity in power ebikes is unmatched on lighter bikes who are surely nimbler but less stable. About power and motor well the more is the better imho, if you have more you can manage it and when needed you can cut it off or reduce it, if you already have less power the versatility of the bike becomes less... a full power bike with a 750wh battery and a weight around 24 kilos is the best solution in my opinion to have a "do it all" machine.
👍You CAN with a "super light" Emtb like the Orbea Rise (with a "adjusted" EP8 engine) have a full power Emtb and with that Emtb you CAN ride in Eco. That just to adjust the limit between the discussion. Do like me, during the dark winter time, you run LCHF and lose weight, which makes the whole crew lighter, it's both cheaper and healthier🤔😅😅😅
Full power eMTB on the decents are much faster than I thought. The added weight make you roll much faster which does affect braking amongst other things. --- I fought going to eMTB for a long time. I'm glad I bought a full power, tech climbing is so fun it adds a whole new challenge to riding and new skills to learn. The cardio workout is similar if you push yourself but the leg workout is nothing even close. I still ride manual more the E and more often
It's rather an adjustable power ebike with a higher range and better durability at the cost of a decrease in maneuverability vs. a low power ebike with less range and durability but with better (easier) maneuverability. I went for the full power option, but my technical prowess is low enough to not lose too much 😄
For short tracks i prefer light weight Emtb, For longer tracks and faster ones i prefer full power and heavier emtb. In my case i ride my giant Etrance e+2 at 24 kgs and it s absolutely a blast on everything i ride those days. Even on 2.8 eddy current tyres. The thing is i don t jump like 20 years ago on my DH bike , it s more like Enduro riding at full speed and keeping the bike low to the ground , riding like that for 2 hours till the battery is done and the rider is exhausted too. Tons of Fun at 53 years old.
Thank you. With a backround of 10 years mx riding, I wouldn´t compare these bikes with emtbs. That is a totally different sport, like emtbiking itself. I had to learn to ride berms new, aritime without a controlable backwheel was so scary... However, interesting opinions, thank you and keep going.
As a 100kg+ rider, I was very disappointed in the TQ motor. Not much easier and mildly quicker than riding a normal mountain bike, but with the limitations of having to power through the limiter. I genuinely would rather ride an analogue bike than a TQ-equipped ebike. The range is appalling too.
I think it’s easier to maintain/accelerate a lighter bike in moderate downhills when the assist level is passed. I prefer a regular bike in bike park situations
For me, 65 nm of torque, 500 plus watt battery, beefy DH tyres, 200 mm rotor brakes, 38mm plus fork, sturdy wheels... if industry can offer that on a lightweight package at reasonable prices its OK, else, if I really want to feel the lightness of mountainbiking, I will ride my naughty (not e) bikes.
Have a gen 3 levo and 90nm is ridiculous power even for my weak ass. Waiting for the kenevo sl 2.0 to be released here in the US, hopefully with a bigger battery
He has a point about tech being more managable on a lighter bike. I guess my reaction is to get stronger pushing a full power through trials sections. That and skip a few meals.
This just shows that if analogue bikes never existed none of this discussion would be a thing. it would just be about the experience of differing power. Harping on about full power not being like analogue. is pointless. Once you move away fully from the long distant past of analogue the full power is always better. If people choose puny power to full then that is their choice I'm sticking with as much power as I can get
My Heckler is 21kg with a 720w battery and feels exceptionally nimble, but still planted and can get massive days out on eco up to ~120 miles(!) depending on terrain. I just don't see the point of light ebikes - which is probably due to the type of riding I do? Dunno theres just not enough difference in weight for it to be worth it imo.
I get riled up when I hear those sections of the conversation about “lazy bikers” (from the second guest). Most of this video was very constructive and focused on the thinking behind an individual’s personal choices, but the judgement about “laziness” always eventually come into the discussion in relation to e-bikes - even from industry professionals, apparently. It’s like a 5yr old kid whining about someone not playing bikes properly…seriously, who cares how or why someone chooses to ride their bike?? Nobody should have to flog themselves to the point of collapse just to earn the right to enjoy riding, or “be a mountain biker” (nor any other form of rider) and catty, gatekeeping, comments are out of place - especially on this channel. As long as you’re not harming anyone or anything, ride how and why you want to ride. Full fat Levo rider (and Epic Evo, and Crux) btw 😊
I only buy cars that do 18-20mpg at best, everything higher is just lazy nerd stuff, not converting as much energy into heat and CO2 (et al) than my car does.
Just pick a bike that suits you and go ride. At my age I couldn't do any of the trails anymore on my non powered hardtail, my knees, just no. Now on a full fatty powered e-mtb, I ride all day every day. The only limiting factor is that your bum hurts from riding so much.
I think it’s just a marketing ploy If you got someone who s 90 kilo and someone who’s 75 kilo the few kilos your goin to gain overall on a lighter bike ?
Nice to be called a lazy mountain biker by this industry professional who presumably would like me to buy a mondraker for my next bike. No chance, mate, dont slag off your target market. I am 70 years old with 1 replacement knee who enjoys 25 miles plus on my full fat Whyte E160. Still I can live with being lazy if it gets me out.
I'm really sorry if you thought that was aimed at you. It wasn't. Anyone who rides any kind of emtb to help with an injury is totally justified. In fact one of my best mates' dads rides with us often on a full power EMTB because of a bad knee. The fact he can get out and enjoy the trails is amazing and I can only 100% vouch for riding whatever you can - I'm not calling you lazy! I'm also not in marketing and I'm definitely not trying to sell you a Mondraker!
@@roughyed74 . A tad oversensitive methinks. You weren't called lazy. It was just an observation, undoubtedly true that many people will have bought ebikes because they can't be bothered to put the effort in... 65 and looking forward to being able to afford my first emtb so I can join the 'Lazy Gang'. 😁👍
I don't agree with all this lighter bike BS, especially if you weigh as much as that fella does. You want an extra 5 kg off your bike to help decend better on the steeps? Give over!😂I'm 78 kg and I have a 26kg bike and can muscle it better than most can with a normal light bike! Braking distances? The extra weight can sometimes help gain grip to stop!😂😂😂
I really don’t get the lightweight ebike market.. you either want assist or not. And if you want assist then weight isn’t the issue. It feels like the lightweight ebike market is really being forced down our necks lately?
Having been mtn biking since the late '90s it's always had a slant toward lightening the bike weight. There used to be discussions on mtbr about Shrader vs Presta tube weight LOL. Once a motor is involved it's less important until you have to lift it over a gate.
Someone of 5' 11" should not be anywhere NEAR 100kg. Im 6' 3" and 90.5kg, and even that is my upper limit. The modern world has just normalised obesity. 😂 Most people are spiking their insulin 6 to 8 times a day, and eating food in a 18 hour window, their bodies just dont ever get a chance to perform correctly, as they spend so much time digesting empty calories. Try eating in a 6 hour window, and eating high fat, high protein, and zero carbs. The weight will slowly fall off, the hunger will vanish, and the efficiency of energy will be masiive. ❤
Have come back to mountain biking after a 26 year gap. I’m older, heavier and less fit. However, the insinuation that I am somehow ‘lazy’ and some how, to others, not a ‘legitimate’ mtb’r irks me. No, I’m wiser. I ride for fun, nothing to prove, no one to impress. You concentrate on being you and I’ll be me. Keep your criticisms to yourself and if I want your opinion, I’ll give it to you.
What a load of rubbish! The guy weighs 125kg and he’s talking about braking points changing! Lose 40kg and they will change even more! Fed up of nonsense on this channel
I have a hard time with people saying full fat e-bikes are for lazy people. What the f&$k does that even mean. I’m 56 years old 6 foot and weigh 240 in full kit. I have a turbo levo and can ride 30 miles if I choose to. Full time job which averages 9000 steps a day, house to care for, lawn to mow, etc. etc.. if that makes me lazy then so be it. I wish people would just shut up and ride it’s supposed to be about having fun.
What do you prefer, 'Light' assist, 'Mid' assist or 'Full' assist? Let us know in the comments! 👇
100% full, super techy trails here in Norway with tons of elevation and no fireroad upphills
SL ebike is almost the same sport as MTbiking, more fun for sure, and full Ebike is another sport on its own, I have both, like both.
I prefer keeping the option to adjust the support aspect on the go instead of going with light once and for all
Full assist. And weekends at the bikepark with no assist on DH bike :)
I'm 55. Been a plumber since April 1994, self employed since January 2008. My knees have taken a beating over the last 30 yrs just from work. I'm not sending downhill like I'm 21yrs old. I really love my 2017 Giant E+ 1. Got it used. I still have my analog Giant Anthem X. But the emtb is great being full power with 80nm. But as always, to each his own and budget. Let's just enjoy our toys!!!!!
Same here, used to ride a Cannondale Trigger 1, full carbon everything including wheels, I bought the best bike i could afford to get me up those hills as easy as possible, but knee pain was too much for me (plumber for 25 years). Then bought a new full fat Levo 2 years ago and now I never get knee pain, like you, I am not looking to send it downhill or do jumps so full fat is perfect for this old timer 😂Still have the Cannondale but can't imagine I would ever ride it again 😪
Lazy Biker here^^ Full Power for sure, plus an analog DH Rig, hehe.
At 62kg nearly back to my birth weight I prefer a heavy full power Emtb. I find my Trek EXe knocks me around much more on long 30min rock garden decent as my total weight is not enough to push me through. Much easier on my body with a heavier bike and 5mins faster on a 1hour climb and decent. Plus is being able to do it 3 times against once on the light bike. E=Mtb².
If you want to go Cycling ride a 7kg road bike. If you want to have Fun ride a Emtb hard and fast. Lightweight bikes are for selling to non believers and Full Power bikes are for Fun Fun Fun.
You're right there and also lightweight bikes "one balls" are there ready to be full fat once the batteries and motors get smaller and lighter. Then what? 😳
Just ride what you like & enjoy!
Full power, large battery for me and my all day rides.
The speed limiter in the UK is a killer, beyond stupid
The Rise is the perfect balance as you can get full power out of the motor (with ST Unlocker) but also the light weight. The problem is manufacturers have somehow concluded you can only have lightweight or full power, you can't have both!
What ? Even giant makes a full power light weight EMTB.
Great debate and nice to hear different opinions with different riders. Think I am lucky and will have both light, full power and analogue....choose your weapon 😊
I think the guy in the middle of the vid hit the nail on the head- if you want to ride like you do on a mountain bike but have some assist on the ups and be able to get a lap in a little quicker, lightweight, mid power emtbs are great. Just understand that to get that real weight savings you’ll be spending about $5K more than the entry level model for the top spec one. If you want to push your riding further, take on new challenges, go deeper and steeper, rip gnar like never before, then get a full power emtb. Just recognize it for what it is- something different, and don’t think of the bike with the same mentality that you think of a mountain bike.
Well done , you have really confused Me 🤔Im someone who is just going to buy a E bikes , its taken me a year to decide to get one , after years of suffering road bikes rides in the Peak District ,😢 I think I’m going for full power as they are cheaper 😉 great channel 👍
Everyone of these comparison videos i have seen talks about the extreme ends of the spectrum. For example, the E Lyte 140 works at 17kg and the E160 RS at 27kg.
The E Lyte in the video has been equipped with enduro tyres wheras it comes from the factory with lightweight cross country tyres so i'd be willing to bet that bike weighs closer to 20kg, especially when you add on a range extender.
Not to mention, the average rider isn't spending 11k and you look at the lower spec bikes, they come standard closer to 20kg anyway which when you can buy something like a base carbon turbo levo that is around 22/23 kg it very quickly begins to make no sense whatsoever to buy a "lightweight" emtb.
Preach on brother. I’ve been saying the same thing since I was purchasing and made those comparos. The best thing about the lower power motors is the decreased drag of the motor.
Wow! Raw data from experienced people on this hot topic. Spot on video! 👍
I’m really on the fence between fat & mid power (+ range extender)… Rarely use Turbo, my average ride is about 50% of battery whereas the long adventure (100% battery) doesn’t really happen very often.
Great content thanks!
I'm with Dave on this, as an ex motocrosser I feel at home in a full fat, the weight isn't an issue and the stability it brings makes me feel at home. Great to hear everyone views which goes to prove its a personal preference and you need to test ride to find what you prefer.
Always going for the power.
What are you riding at the moment?
In the immortal words of Tim the toolman, more power LOL
My full fat e bike is 22 kgs with big burly tyres on alloy wheels and a 720 battery. The sl version is only 3.5 kgs lighter with a 430 wt battery and carbon wheels. Its also way more money.
What full fat? My Kenevo SL is 21.3kg
@@jordanmackay3568 Santa Cruz heckler.
And the endless debate goes on …! The bottom line is what suits you. Yes, your weight, level of fitness, experience all are critical to the mix but I’m guessing if you took two identical riders in terms of the above backgrounds there is still the strong possibility they would still disagree - upshot is that we have more choice as to what suits us - win win 😎
Full power Trek Rail, the stability and power are amazing.
I just bought a Cube one44. My first emtb and I really like it. I’m 90kg and dropping. It’s a revelation; getting back in to mountain biking after a few years of losing interest. Trails that used to kill me (fitness) are an absolute cinch. I’m still working as hard but riding faster and further. I don’t agree they ride like an analogue bike. They are still far heavier and it’s noticeable but the benefits to me in my 50s outweigh the downsides. I’m a fan…. and I didn’t expect to be
Got a trek fuel Exe absolutely love it still a pretty fit rider as have a analogue HT, but it allows me to get out for those quick power hours where I wouldn’t bother getting the normal bike off the rack for that time frame and it also feels very similar to my old full suss win win 👌
👍I also Love my heavier first full power Emtb Canyon spectral ON 9.0 2019, but now with my Specialized SL 35Nm I learned me to quickly choose easier track choices when climbing and if it stops, it is easier to carry or lead😂
Personally I would rather a full power bike. You can always turn the power down on a full power bike, if you are at the max on a low power bike and need more power, you are knackered.
Absolutely.
It's more about how the lighter bike rides, a full power on lower power still feels heavy and handles differently from a light bike. I went from full power to light weight and much prefer the ride, much more fun and the power is more than enough for me. The full power felt more like a motorbike, each to their own though.
@@link6032 if you are looking for the feel of an unassisted bike, then the question is why choose an ebike, wouldn't you just stick to a regular bike.
@@acelectricalsecurity perhaps your getting on a bit and fancy a bit of help getting up the hills that were a doddle 25 years ago?
@@andrewsutton1657 not really my problem is a dodgy knee that's been dislocated several times through playing too much football throughout my childhood and late teens, and on some days gives little to no pain after around 30 miles, while on another day being really painful after several hundred yards.
Maybe rather than assuming a person using an ebike is being lazy, or old father time is catching up with them, consider other reasons.
👍"handling precision" with one with a heavier bike is worse than with a light bike, I guess that's why I and other former mountain bikers end up choosing a light Emtb.
+ that I now personally compete against cycling as long as possible in mixed terrain on one charge of the bike's battery.
I currently have 5 super light bikes, of which 3 Emtb, 1 Orbea Rise, 2 Specialized SL, 1 Specialized Enduro, 1 Specialized Epik, 5 range extenders of which I only used one for the Orbean for tours with a backpack and food with me for to enjoy nature😋.
❤I LOVE THIS EMTB LIFE❤
I just rode my full power Ibis Oso on some of the gnarliest, slow pedal tech around. Put it in Tour mode and it handles as precisely as my SC Bronson. And then when I faced a technical 45 degree uphill- put it in Emtb mode and it has the power to get me up. Plus the boring climbing trail is about 5 mins faster on Emtb setting than it is for the guys on “light” emtbs on Turbo. I started riding mtbs in 1990 btw, bmx and freestyling in the 80s before that. I’ll only go to a lighter emtb when I’m older and no longer have the upper body strength, or when the $8K models are more than a 5 lb difference in weight compared to a full power, which when you compare with the same components is about the current weight difference for $8K bikes.
@@dadventuretv2538
👍We are different😘
I Love climbing, are 59 years old in a good condition, weighs 79kg and is 187cm tall. I'm not racing against any time, only how far and how long I can go on the small 320Wh battery, which sits on my half price frame kit Specialized SL 35Nm I built (I build or rebuild my own bikes).
The only logical sense of changing from a heavy Emtb to a light one is if you are not overweight yourself or if you want to "buy" motivation to lose weight😊
@@kentnilsson9757 I thought the reason to buy a lightweight emtb was because they handle so precisely? Now I guess it’s to lose weight? Not sure I buy that when you ride em like I do. The climbs I am talking about doing cannot be done on lightweight emtbs- they literally do not have enough power. I know, I’ve tried em or watched friends try em. I’m talking about the kind of stuff usually reserved for moto bikes. In fact, I’ve actually started to ride some moto trails. And I think you misunderstood my point as to climbing that boring trail faster. The benefit of getting to the top faster is to get the boredom over quicker and get more laps in. In 6 laps I’ll save 30 mins. That equates to two more laps up and down than on a lightweight emtb. So you burn your calories using more energy to get to the top. I burn my calories getting in 2 more laps of fun. They’re both good, but like you said, different.
@@dadventuretv2538
👍
Well given that I’ve sent my 53 lb full power Ibis Oso down 40, 49 and 55 degree DHs that are loose and full of rocks and roots and multiple compressions and drops (Frederick Watershed- The Nose, Albatross, Creampie, Hoedown and PL), I’d have to disagree with the statement that full power emtbs are too fast in the steeps. I do agree they pick up more speed, but the joy of a full power motor is that you can have big 220 mm rotors with full power DH brakes and the heaviest casing, knobbiest and grippiest tires out there to help you stop. And IMO, that weight feels great in the gnarly steeps full of multiple compressions bc the bike doesn’t get pinballed around. Also have to agree with Dave- there is something about a properly designed full power emtb where it just flies and the weight just disappears. Well except for what you’ll feel in your shoulders the next day. Lol.
My main issue with the SLs is battery management. Owned the rise, sl 1 2 and ksl all whilst still owning a FF levo, and all the sls have come and gone after the honeymoon period. Theyre amazing if your riding solo but they just cant gel well with full power bikes. I have a normal bike group and a emtb group the sls put you in the middle. Normal bikes? your to fast or its to easy for you, yes you can turn it down but then whats the point. FF your working harder and draining your battery in doing so. I love SLs and think they will develop to be the norm, but at the moment your spending the same money you would on a Full power for less of an experience. If you are still a active normal biker get a full fat emtb and keep your mtb. Two different experiences which warrants the two bikes. If you ride mostly solo or have super fit normal bike mates get a SL, but if any of those mates get a full power prepare for your SL enjoyment to quickly end.
Good to hear Dave's view.
I'm keeping my Levo sl v1 as it's ace but keen to get a full fat for that planted strength flying down the mountain trails here in Cham (I bounce around all over on my sl & Mach 6 naturally aspirated) !
I'm the last guy in the video mate. I've ridden ebikes for over 10 years and had tons of them, tried to go back to normal bikes and had light weight ebikes like I said. Not all full fat ebikes are great just like not all sl bikes are great but something about the Whytes, they're just amazing on jumps and grip like nothing on earth. Just anticipate the weight in corners and you'll love full fats.
I agree with Dave...the full fat bike will go over the knariest of terrain especially with 29ers and good suspension set up
I'm not sure I like the fact that because I've just bought a full power e bike, I'm now a lazy mtb rider. I've always had analogue mtb's, but my son is now addicted to mtb and rides an analogue bike. He enjoys the tow up the hills, and I don't mind as he can ride for longer.
This is a really good episode. Thx. Definitely have this talk with more riders. Thx guys.
I'm in the market for an emtb but with astronomical purchase cost and the sea of choice of spec, power and brands out there I'm very concerned about making the wrong choice. This is the first Embn video in a while that gives honest feedback rather than feeling like a sales pitch for the featured brand in the video.
Base your requirements on where you will or want to ride.
I'm ecstatic over my "cheap" ebike. The next one will be better all round.
If your on the fence as to which one to buy, I can definitely recommend the orbea rise. I was in the same position and glad I didn't buy a full fat bike. Mine weights about 20kg but I'm using an XL
there are so many high quality bikes it's not possible to make a catastrophic " mistake". go for a bike that has a big service and parts network and has been shown to be reliable .
I nearly went for a Rise but heard so many bad stories about people trying to get battery replacements. They don't use a standard off the shelf battery so you have to source through them, however they won't sell you one so I'd you're out of warranty you have to get a bike shop to order one from them on your behalf
74 lb bike here, 2000 watts, cadence sensor, 200mm travel front and rear, and a whole lot of fun!
I recently upgraded from a full power Cube Stereo Hybrid 750TM with the latest Bosch CX motor to a mid power Mondraker Dune RR with Bosch SX motor. After a year or two on the Cube, I found my main interest ended up being in more steep technical Enduro, and handling the Cube (or any 'full fat' eMTB) in those conditions is almost a different discipline due to the weight. So I initially bought an analog Enduro geometry Vitus Sommet to trial an Enduro bike and absolutely loved it. After several months and much searching, I chose the Mondraker to replace the Cube. My first impressions of the Mondraker Dune are incredible. Great balance, agility, playfulness etc. Feels just like by analog bike, but with a motor to assist in the climbs. There are so many RUclips videos commenting on weight over performance and it can really be confusing. If you have little to no fitness, you want a bike that can power you wherever you want to go with the least amount of energy, and you are NOT looking for agility/playfulness, go with Full Fat. Most are a point and shoot type experience and great in open mountain type situations especially. But if you want to keep the agility/playfulness of an analog bike, with little to no difference in riding style, mid power with lower weight (sub 20KG at least) is the way to go. We are seeing more and more full power bikes coming in
I have been riding a full power 85nm Trek Rail for a few months. It is surprisingly nimble on tighter technical down hill tracks. The braking needs to be earlier than an acoustic bike or lighter e bike but takes no time to figure out when to hit the brakes. The 4 piston calipers are quiet powerful. The bonus of the weight is it's amazing stability and being so sure footed on very rough trails taming sections that used to be very challenging. It is such a blast on this bike. In eco mode the battery can last 75km or more with 1500m of climbing! I can also understand why riders enjoy the lighter more natural feeling e bikes, there really are so many options with a bike suited for everyone
Question: would lightweight eMTB's make a lot of sense for me? I'm about 100kg of mostly muscle so 25kg is 1/4 of my bodyweight just like a regular 15kg enduro bike is for a 60kg rider. I have no experience with eMTB, but weight doesn't bother me at all on regular MTB's. I'm considering an eMTB next and would mostly use it to make the boring XC trails around my home more fun and to also self-shuttle enduro trails during trips. I couldn't care less about the cardio of MTB - I'm here to go fast and feel nimble on descents
Problem with light emtb is that you will have a short ride time. Unless those light emtb get more power and keep same weight, i sont see a reason to buy it. That being said they have their place in the market and might be good for someone not looking for alot of power, but only getting uphill to then downhill. I would certainly not go for low power emtb atm
Nice one, Steve 👍 I was very much the same, fat v light 😀 so out of the 2, I tested the bit, don't like about the fat is the limit before hitting the wall, on the other hand light ebike don't seem to have a limit to go faster 😀 the 2 ebike I tested was Whyte E-160 RS v E-Lyte 140 works 😀 a different world
I've got a full power Levo and 60 NM orbea rise, the levo was my first e mtb and I had to learn to ride again because the power is huge, makes you smile going up hill and is awsome on flowy rooty downs lone choose isnt as important it just blasts through, I rode a Levo SL and found it didnt have enough power then I got the Rise it completely different, adequate power way more fun in the tight single track and easier on the upper body. They both have their place and both are fun but I find myself grabbing the Orbea Rise 90% of time
Got a Rise love it, I didn’t want a full fat as still wanted to get a work out and also wanted something that would be easier to get in the car.
I have the Rise and the Wild .... you can definitely get a workout on a full power emtb. It depends how you use it.
I've got a M10 rise. It does everything I need. I cannot see me buying a full fat at all.
@@Daffy0208 I added the range extender to my M10 rise for the first time on Friday. I've had it a year and never used it. We did 25 miles and with the extender added, I still came back with 3 bars on the normal battery. I could easily get over 35 miles using trail and eco mode.
I always had light ebikes. Sometimes when I rent e-bikes on holidays they are full fat and it’s very difficult for me to ride a full fat on descents.
"Because it's easier to manouver a lighter bike..."
Just to put into context:
We're talking 6 to 4 kg difference, at 25km/h, meaning that the energy is quiet low, and not the same as do the same with motorcycles!
The speed Moto goes, increases a LOT Cinetic Energy, so weight difference are quite noticeable
Also... it seems ebikes, are attracting Zap-Sportsman (Zap from zapping channels while seated on the sofa!).
These type of riders, never had physical stamina, and thing everything should be easy.
Earing the weight debate, is like earing someone with a XC bike, talking about how hard is to turn DH bikes! LoL!
The only weight I can notice, is really when you need to lift the ebike, or you need to pedal uphill without assitance. In this type of situations, anyone can dectected a ±500grm increase on any Bike (the ones that don't have any kind of assistance!)
Cinetic ?
I’ve ridden full fats and mids they both have their place for sure being an old motor cycle dirt bike rider I prefer the mids for my mountain bike experience when I get on a full fat I often wish I was on my motorcycle So the mid is a more genuine mountain bike experience for me personally 😁🤙🏽
Interesting way of looking at it! Is it the weight or the power that makes you wish you were on a motorbike instead? What mid assist bike have you got at the moment? 🤘
@@embn Hi mate a bit of both I reckon, weight and power, I feel when I’m on a full fat E mtb that it’s often feels more motorcycle like than mountain bike ish so I’d rather just ride the motorcycle with much more power and better suspension and frankly often cheaper to purchase, lots of electric motorcycles coming that are quiet lightweight and significantly more powerful than EMTB and cost similar amounts so the main advantage of full fat e-bikes is more places to ride at present but this advantage may soon be less significant as motorcycle trails may begin to reopen near urban areas due to the significant noise reductions. I often hire a full fat too quickly scope out a new riding areas or if riding is more gravitationally oriented for self shuttles and no doubt these bikes rock on machine built bike park type trails and hard charging through gnarly rock gardens.
I own two Trek fuels a meat powered Ex9.8 coil rear and an EXe 9.7 with fox 38s set at 160 mm I bought the EXe to enable more hot weather and quick after work rides “live in the tropics” “crazy hot and humid” with trying to get some fitness training in the mix and it works brilliantly in this role.
When I’m out by myself or riding with mates on analogue bikes which is most of my riding I have no range issues, I mainly enjoy riding technical single track which is most of my local trails so nimbleness and playfulness is important to me when I head out with the full fat crowd I do have to battery manage regularly as it’s so tempting to go full power to keep up and often rinse the TQs small battery.
I’ve come home a few times pedalling a dead bike and thankfully this is not to big a chore on a mid but am looking at a range extender for those chasing full fat days not sure how often I’d use it though in the scheme of things. I love that it’s quite I can carry it easily and let’s me quickly and quietly get away from all the noise and bluster if you know what I mean 😁🤙
the one fairly consistent factor of lightweight low power vs full power is AGE and or fitness..
most riders that are weight weenies are young and powerful . a young fit rider can easily compensate for low power with their own physical power .
as one becomes old (different for each person ) it's no longer so easy to get up those hills , so full power bikes correct that problem .
all other consideration tend to be tics and aesthetics.
Not really. The guy who trains for EWS here uses a full power ebike for rest days and rides a normal enduro most of the time. In my case I have more fitness using a full bike ebike than ever because it makes zone 2 riding actually interesting.
And usually the enduro bros who ride up and down don't exactly train for FTP. So also doesn't work that way either.
spoken like a young fit person . that opinion will alter as you reach the age where your mind says "let's go " and your body says " oh hell NO" .
there is no way for a young person to understand this until the reality of physical decline sets in . i use to think that if i kept fit my whole life that age wouldn't be a factor. well, at 78 , so much for that fantasy . your argument is most definitely based on your age
@@siriosstar4789 No. I just understand how training for endurance sports actually works.
Sometimes I miss the feel of a more natural ride, especially when I'm trying to bunnyhop but I also love the pure power of the 85Nm when I'm too tired to give a lot of effort myself going uphills.
eBikes are a bit harder to muscle around but it's a small price to pay for a powerful motor! What eMTB have you got?
@embn A cheap cube with 120mm front and rear, very heavy sadly
Think the last guy nailed it, full fat all the way
I have been riding bikes for three decades and more... and I've ridden freeride 20+ kilos bikes in early 2000, the "planted" effect is a feeling that I love when I ride a bike, the stability on speed and cornering dued to the low center of gravity in power ebikes is unmatched on lighter bikes who are surely nimbler but less stable. About power and motor well the more is the better imho, if you have more you can manage it and when needed you can cut it off or reduce it, if you already have less power the versatility of the bike becomes less... a full power bike with a 750wh battery and a weight around 24 kilos is the best solution in my opinion to have a "do it all" machine.
👍You CAN with a "super light" Emtb like the Orbea Rise (with a "adjusted" EP8 engine) have a full power Emtb and with that Emtb you CAN ride in Eco. That just to adjust the limit between the discussion.
Do like me, during the dark winter time, you run LCHF and lose weight, which makes the whole crew lighter, it's both cheaper and healthier🤔😅😅😅
Full power eMTB on the decents are much faster than I thought. The added weight make you roll much faster which does affect braking amongst other things. --- I fought going to eMTB for a long time. I'm glad I bought a full power, tech climbing is so fun it adds a whole new challenge to riding and new skills to learn. The cardio workout is similar if you push yourself but the leg workout is nothing even close. I still ride manual more the E and more often
It's rather an adjustable power ebike with a higher range and better durability at the cost of a decrease in maneuverability vs. a low power ebike with less range and durability but with better (easier) maneuverability. I went for the full power option, but my technical prowess is low enough to not lose too much 😄
For short tracks i prefer light weight Emtb, For longer tracks and faster ones i prefer full power and heavier emtb.
In my case i ride my giant Etrance e+2 at 24 kgs and it s absolutely a blast on everything i ride those days. Even on 2.8 eddy current tyres.
The thing is i don t jump like 20 years ago on my DH bike , it s more like Enduro riding at full speed and keeping the bike low to the ground , riding like that for 2 hours till the battery is done and the rider is exhausted too. Tons of Fun at 53 years old.
Thank you. With a backround of 10 years mx riding, I wouldn´t compare these bikes with emtbs. That is a totally different sport, like emtbiking itself. I had to learn to ride berms new, aritime without a controlable backwheel was so scary... However, interesting opinions, thank you and keep going.
As a 100kg+ rider, I was very disappointed in the TQ motor. Not much easier and mildly quicker than riding a normal mountain bike, but with the limitations of having to power through the limiter. I genuinely would rather ride an analogue bike than a TQ-equipped ebike. The range is appalling too.
Riders here talk about being 90KG’s+. Get to 80KGs and see the difference that makes ❤
For sure. Everyone can just lose 10 KG at the snap of a finger for some random internet commenter. 😂
Yeah they can afford to lose at least 10 KG.
Nope. My 750 watt battery dies before my legs do doing 2-3 hour tours in my local mountains.. Seriously looking at that 900w Canyon spectral on.
I ride a Pivot Shutte SL, I cannot imagine a better ride.
Lately I’ve been riding my full fat in eco trying to enjoy the surroundings. Need to ride a 60nm bike to see the difference.
Are there any demo days near your? That would be perfect for giving it a go!
Oh yea. Front range Colorado has a great selection of shops. Happy Trails
Superb, thank you
Another video going over the same stuff. We get the benefits of the low assist and light bikes vs full fat. More unique content please.
I think it’s easier to maintain/accelerate a lighter bike in moderate downhills when the assist level is passed. I prefer a regular bike in bike park situations
For me, 65 nm of torque, 500 plus watt battery, beefy DH tyres, 200 mm rotor brakes, 38mm plus fork, sturdy wheels... if industry can offer that on a lightweight package at reasonable prices its OK, else, if I really want to feel the lightness of mountainbiking, I will ride my naughty (not e) bikes.
Have a gen 3 levo and 90nm is ridiculous power even for my weak ass. Waiting for the kenevo sl 2.0 to be released here in the US, hopefully with a bigger battery
I’ve got both and each has its pros and cons.
He has a point about tech being more managable on a lighter bike. I guess my reaction is to get stronger pushing a full power through trials sections. That and skip a few meals.
This just shows that if analogue bikes never existed none of this discussion would be a thing. it would just be about the experience of differing power. Harping on about full power not being like analogue. is pointless. Once you move away fully from the long distant past of analogue the full power is always better. If people choose puny power to full then that is their choice I'm sticking with as much power as I can get
My Heckler is 21kg with a 720w battery and feels exceptionally nimble, but still planted and can get massive days out on eco up to ~120 miles(!) depending on terrain. I just don't see the point of light ebikes - which is probably due to the type of riding I do? Dunno theres just not enough difference in weight for it to be worth it imo.
just coming up to 66 have'nt found weight is an issue, would prefer weight over more reliabilty and less maintenance
Ordered my first ebike and gone for full power as i wsnt as much power i can get
Dragging out the dead horse.
I get riled up when I hear those sections of the conversation about “lazy bikers” (from the second guest). Most of this video was very constructive and focused on the thinking behind an individual’s personal choices, but the judgement about “laziness” always eventually come into the discussion in relation to e-bikes - even from industry professionals, apparently. It’s like a 5yr old kid whining about someone not playing bikes properly…seriously, who cares how or why someone chooses to ride their bike?? Nobody should have to flog themselves to the point of collapse just to earn the right to enjoy riding, or “be a mountain biker” (nor any other form of rider) and catty, gatekeeping, comments are out of place - especially on this channel. As long as you’re not harming anyone or anything, ride how and why you want to ride.
Full fat Levo rider (and Epic Evo, and Crux) btw 😊
Wow, you went out of your way to make some excuses for your laziness...
I only buy cars that do 18-20mpg at best, everything higher is just lazy nerd stuff, not converting as much energy into heat and CO2 (et al) than my car does.
@@Tone32616 HR monitor tells the truth.
Full fat or i'll ride my reg bike
ah yes the ol miata vs corvette debate.
These guys talking about “fat ebike” being Canadian Im looking for a bike with 5” tires confused what youre talking about
You should reconsider your sound engineer..
I want a full power one bit I need a lighter one.😅
Just pick a bike that suits you and go ride. At my age I couldn't do any of the trails anymore on my non powered hardtail, my knees, just no. Now on a full fatty powered e-mtb, I ride all day every day. The only limiting factor is that your bum hurts from riding so much.
I think it’s just a marketing ploy
If you got someone who s 90 kilo and someone who’s 75 kilo the few kilos your goin to gain overall on a lighter bike ?
yep . definitely market hype .
Nice to be called a lazy mountain biker by this industry professional who presumably would like me to buy a mondraker for my next bike. No chance, mate, dont slag off your target market. I am 70 years old with 1 replacement knee who enjoys 25 miles plus on my full fat Whyte E160. Still I can live with being lazy if it gets me out.
I'm really sorry if you thought that was aimed at you. It wasn't.
Anyone who rides any kind of emtb to help with an injury is totally justified. In fact one of my best mates' dads rides with us often on a full power EMTB because of a bad knee. The fact he can get out and enjoy the trails is amazing and I can only 100% vouch for riding whatever you can - I'm not calling you lazy!
I'm also not in marketing and I'm definitely not trying to sell you a Mondraker!
@@roughyed74 . A tad oversensitive methinks. You weren't called lazy. It was just an observation, undoubtedly true that many people will have bought ebikes because they can't be bothered to put the effort in... 65 and looking forward to being able to afford my first emtb so I can join the 'Lazy Gang'. 😁👍
Full fat bloke full fat power😊
why stop in Chicago when you going to new york full power or nothing!!!
I don't agree with all this lighter bike BS, especially if you weigh as much as that fella does. You want an extra 5 kg off your bike to help decend better on the steeps? Give over!😂I'm 78 kg and I have a 26kg bike and can muscle it better than most can with a normal light bike! Braking distances? The extra weight can sometimes help gain grip to stop!😂😂😂
100%
Yep definitely agree on that.
I really don’t get the lightweight ebike market.. you either want assist or not. And if you want assist then weight isn’t the issue. It feels like the lightweight ebike market is really being forced down our necks lately?
Having been mtn biking since the late '90s it's always had a slant toward lightening the bike weight. There used to be discussions on mtbr about Shrader vs Presta tube weight LOL. Once a motor is involved it's less important until you have to lift it over a gate.
Someone of 5' 11" should not be anywhere NEAR 100kg. Im 6' 3" and 90.5kg, and even that is my upper limit. The modern world has just normalised obesity. 😂 Most people are spiking their insulin 6 to 8 times a day, and eating food in a 18 hour window, their bodies just dont ever get a chance to perform correctly, as they spend so much time digesting empty calories. Try eating in a 6 hour window, and eating high fat, high protein, and zero carbs. The weight will slowly fall off, the hunger will vanish, and the efficiency of energy will be masiive. ❤
Was thinking the same. I'm 6'5 and my weight hovers between 88 to 93kg.
90kg is not a heavy man.
Just saying.
Stop mucking about! Full fat, long distance, give it some!!! A couple of kilo's either way makes no difference to a full fat monster.
Have come back to mountain biking after a 26 year gap. I’m older, heavier and less fit. However, the insinuation that I am somehow ‘lazy’ and some how, to others, not a ‘legitimate’ mtb’r irks me. No, I’m wiser. I ride for fun, nothing to prove, no one to impress. You concentrate on being you and I’ll be me. Keep your criticisms to yourself and if I want your opinion, I’ll give it to you.
pointless annoying discussion...without an answer
What a load of rubbish! The guy weighs 125kg and he’s talking about braking points changing! Lose 40kg and they will change even more! Fed up of nonsense on this channel
I have a hard time with people saying full fat e-bikes are for lazy people. What the f&$k does that even mean. I’m 56 years old 6 foot and weigh 240 in full kit. I have a turbo levo and can ride 30 miles if I choose to. Full time job which averages 9000 steps a day, house to care for, lawn to mow, etc. etc.. if that makes me lazy then so be it. I wish people would just shut up and ride it’s supposed to be about having fun.