@@JBspherefreak let’s not forget about Aimee-Ffion Edwards (especially when Mio and M’s voices were overlapping). During that time, I notice that Mio and M were goading Noah into striking her (M in Mio’s old body) down
@@tirzahroseroot thanks for reminding me 😔 Listen, Christopher Judge as Kratos was always projected to win, and while I think GOW Ragnarok was robbing XC3 of best Soundtrack, Christopher Judge was a valid win, but a nomination nonetheless goes a long way to highlight either of their rising voice acting careers. Harry McEntire is even interested in pursuing voice acting now after his decently successful TV live acting background (was in Last Kingdom portraying a major antagonist Æthelwold. Though admittedly I haven’t seen any Aimee-Ffion Edwards interviews after her performances of Mio and Ranni (Elden Ring), who also portrayed Esme Shelby in Peaky Blinders, so I don’t know if Edwards is interested in more voice acting roles.
There is one other noteworthy detail, in Chapter 1, during his fight vs Mio, Noah thinks: „Something strange is going on. We shouldn‘t be fighting like this. We should run…! Run? Was it…me who just said that?“ Basically he was repeating a thought of his last life, where they ran away.
I was rewatching that cutscene after finishing the game and just about leapt out of my seat when I heard that line and realized what it meant. This game foreshadows so much, even outright spoiling itself in a few scenes, but there's often so much happening you miss it the first time.
To me, N is the best Xenoblade villain, because he combines both parts of my former favorite Xenoblade villains, Egil and Jin, N has the Grief and fallen hero standpoint of Jin, along with the Fear and Vengeance of Egil, and I love it, plus the fact that he’s Noah adds this edge of “is Noah going to be in a point where he will have to do what N did?”
I actually like xenoblade's secondary antagonists or its antivillains more than the main antagonists. N, Jin and Egil had more motivations for what they were doing than amalthus/malos, Zanza and Z. Ironically it's the main villains who drove them for their motivations.
@@arclight7892 Pretty sure Malos is an antivillain because he actually doesn't like being evil. Though I feel like it takes until the final battle to see the nuance because almost beside that, he's kinda a d*ck with few redeeming qualities.
The voice acting in this game was God tier. Especially Harry McEntire as Noah/N Very much on par with Adam Howden as Shulk. But that doesn't mean the rest of the cast was bad or even mediocre..Oh no.. FAR from it!
Part of why Xenoblade is so compelling as a story is because of good or at least passable voice acting on nearly every character. A lot of games have VAs that are just atrocious and break suspension of disbelief, Xenoblade has mostly avoided this. Rex is often criticized but honestly it's just because the other leads in the franchise are even better. His voice is good outside of some really awkward screams.
I think the game implies enough that the Noah with the kid is the one that becomes N. After that death he meets Z and makes the decision to live in the endless now. Noah also mention that he felt the child’s embrace and the struck N.
The baby’s actual name the first Vandham. There are many ways to connect this. First and the weakest connection is with the line Noah says, “I am not very good at naming.” We know Monica Vandham isn’t good with naming because of Ghondor always upset about it. Ghondor even says, “I wish I could have a better name.” Maybe this is a coincidence or not but that’s why it’s the weakest connection. Next connection is with the statue in the city of house Vandham. The first comment made on that statue is by Eunie, “This one has Noah’s chin.” This statue is similar to Noah but not exactly him. It’s his son. Reading the statue you see that he fought against N and ousted him from the City. This is how they were able to create a new City since Vandham was able to stop his dad somehow. Weather it was N not wanting to kill his son or something else we don’t know. Lastly, you can see they also had a daughter as well. The statue with cat ears to Vandham states that they were blood related. She is also the one who sets up the new City. So while it would be funny if the kids name was Phil. He is actually the first Vandham.
So I'm thinking of an idea along these lines BUT Phil is not necessarily the Vandham founder due to him not having a sister. I reckon Phil had kids and they became the Founders instead
I don’t think that is true for 2 details absent in the story, like why didn’t we see their daughter or not mention it the cutscene when Noah disappeared, “Like take care of your sister”, that all it’s needed to hint the theory, or the part that Noah didn’t care about murdering all his other descendants, why would he care about one more? The more likely explanation is that M help the head of house Vandam to stop N. That doesn’t necessarily needs lineage to get help. Are they related? yeah probably, but I wouldn’t go and say that the head of house Vandham was N and M’s son, a descendant is more likely.
I thought that too, but there's never any mention of N and M having a daughter. There's a lot of unanswered questions I'm sure nintendo and Monolithsoft are gonna raid our wallets for, with the expansion pass. I'm glad we got a complete story with the vanilla game but there's just too much left unanswered, it feels kinda scummy.
No, bc we know the Vandham and Doyle founders were siblings. Yet it wasn't stated whether Phil had a sister, and why wouldn't she be present for Mio's or Noah's departure?
Harry McEntire as Noah & N really gave Adam Howden as Shulk a run for his money in terms of raw emotion. The fact he was able to play the role of a hero & a villain to bear absolute perfection was astonishing. For the most part I felt a lot of Moebius to be “just okay” I mean yeah each of them had their own distinctive personalities but most never actually stood out to me. However like you said N & M were easily the best & I really just couldn’t help but feel for their entire story. Especially N who to me is one of the most tragic characters in the entire franchise. In the end with everything he did, you can’t really blame the guy for the choices he made. He was a man with a broken heart & having to witness the one you love die over & over again...it would break even the strongest person.
Loving these lore videos given that the story of 3 is way more criptical and confusing than the other 2 games. Looking forward for the rest of the series explaining everything about the lore
I personally disagree that Z "left a lot to be desired" as stated in the opening. Based on what I understand of Z, I see him as more of a force of nature rather than a real person with understandable motivations. He's the amalgamation of all the desires of the dead. I think he's much better if you look at him this way.
The fact that people aren’t looking at him like that when the game explicitly tells you that’s what he is and you should look at him like that is funny to me
Yeah I agree with this, like he is a being created from the fear of change, the fear of letting things move, the fear of making mistakes. He isn’t a person like malos (who tbh I thought was pretty bland till the world tree) or Jin, which is why I think lots of people didn’t like him as he isn’t written the same way as those 2. I do think his personality could’ve been done better (mainly because I was kind of fed up of the theatre semantics that every consul spouted prior), however what he is and how he adds to the larger narrative is golden imo. And the fact he still thinks he’s the good guy by giving people endless possibilities in the endless now is very interesting as his mindset is deeply wrong. As by allowing people to live, die, and live over and over again without any preconception about their previous lives, it actually makes the people of Aionios void of progression, as progression needs change. And I feel like D (who I think also adds a lot to 3’s message) perfectly represent how flawed Z’s perspective on his actions actually are, as D no matter how many times he lived, how many times he came back and was giving another chance in these ‘endless possibilities’, he was still a murderous maniac who loved to kill, because the world that Z created did not give him the means to change himself, to make mistakes and learn, and to let things move. I don’t think Z is on par with Jin and Malos (he’s around Almathus level for me personally), not even on the level of other villains in 3 like N and Shania ,but I won’t say he is bad, just written differently than the other villains. However 3 does have a villain problem, a lot of the consuls are just white noise villains that do nothing but distract the players from the good villains of 3. Also the fact that so many consuls are beaten in hero quests really lowers their overall threat level, and makes moebius overall less intimidating. Sorry for the ramble lol.
Yep, he's a concept, not a character. Origin contains all this data and all these memories and ideas, and in each one of those, a tiny bit of Moebius was implanted unintentionally by the creator of each bit of data. All of that fear of the future manifested itself as Z, and that's all Z is and needs to be.
To me Z not being a person is exactly the issue. You're not fighting someone _with_ their own motivations you're just fighting _a_ motivation. I'm glad for anyone that enjoyed Z for what it was but personally I found it way less compelling than Zanza and Malos. Though removed from that I think 3 had the best finale in the series.
The way Noah and Miyo splits in two is interesting. How can they do that? It reminds me the way Shulk was an "empty shell" of Zanza. Shulk developed a "new" soul having strong relationships with his friends that made him back alive when Zanza came out. In Fiora's case, she and Mayneth lived in the same body when Egil emplanted Mayneth conciusness in Fiora's body, splitting back in a second moment during Mayneth sacrifice. In XC2 we see this doppelganger mechanism between Pyra and Mythra but they are two half of the same soul born only due to a limitation mechanism to prevent the distruction of the world. In XC3 it's hard to explain... it's like the will or the despair of what N&M did that gave life to a new Noah and Miyo puppet, becouse their real souls denied that fate. But should be the Origin to choose something like this, and the Origin is in Z's hands. Their will to go over this despair just bugged the system...? Or there's a "divine power discendence" power in thir bloodlines in some ways? In XC1 and 2 you have some reasons to the fact that protagonists can brake the rules, in XC3 this is not really well justified.
i personally believe that Noah and Mio's unique reincarnation's are caused by Melia using the little influence over origin that she does have due to being connected to it as a way to oppose this Z. I think this makes alot of sense since one of N's main motivaitions in chapter 4 was to make Melia lose all hope wich implies some level of resentment towards her plus she is clearly the one who gave N and Noah their unique blades and the lucky seven (through Riku).
@@gottpersoenlich Tora made the Agnus side of Origin, the Keves side was made by Melia and I guess some other engineers, but we don't really know who made Lucky Seven just that it was made by nopon and handed down to Riku by his masterpon. It would make sense that Melia was that masterpon and she somehow gave Lucky Seven to Riku. If Melia is behind Lucky it would also explain why it looks kinda like the Monado.
The reason Noah got lucky is the Noah we play has is the seventh version of Noah, N was the Sixth version of Noah. And the name of the sword was probably the name Lucky Seven
I think the reason Noah and Mio are so special is that they’re probably the only two who had any awareness during the moment where time slowed to a crawl and the collision of the worlds.
Adding to the confusion of the order of events and their true nature, the versions of N and M that had their kid release yellow particles when they die instead of the typical white when their other selves died...
I assumed when Z talked about Noah and Mio "persisting", he was simply referring to how they keep challenging him and his system across multiple incarnations, and didn't have anything to do with being able to "survive past homecoming". Frankly, I dislike the notion that Noah and Mio were just born different. That's not a thing in Xenoblade. There's always a reason things are the way they are and why the protagonist will gain access to divine power.
Gonna be honest, as almost predictable as it may have been, i wish Z was actually zanza, or his will or something that reformed into the original moebius after his death to put the world back into its never ending cycle. If anything just to give him SOME kind of identity, really wasnt feeling the whole "he's just some faceless evil that sprung up out of nowhere". Plus having him be zanza would have put an end to the klaus saga like they said this game would. To me this game just left too many plot threads hanging for "a story conclusion" and needed more connections to the previous games (like the conduit and aegis's)
Pretty sure it has to somehow be zanza, every other consol in game including d has a name beginning with that letter, and him being named z and the other two games having zanza/one of zanzas core crystals being the final boss, it would fit the trend
Z is the collective unconscious of the data of both Rex's and Shulk's worlds within origin and a representation of humanity's fear and despair. He's not a direct individual, but rather a representation of the power such feelings have over others. This is why he is an original being, and all the moebius are people who gave into fear or a desire to live in an idealized eternity along with him, such as N. Unlike other xeno games, xeno 3 leaves almost everything to the player to interpret by themselves as if it were a novel or literary work. Honestly quite cool but it does leave a lot of gaps and unanswered questions regarding the legacy of N's past lives, where origins power stems from or what the fog beasts even were in future connected.
Seems this game is just turning into ‘headcanon: the game’ when it comes to those later chapters. Maybe a bit of an overexaggeration but everyone is theorising, assuming and adding stuff to the story because of how disappointing it is when just taking what the story actually gives us. Leaving things for the player to interpret would be one thing, but you can’t just do that with plot-important things that leave people confused or just disappointed. Not criticising anyone for their headcanons, this game is practically begging you to fill in the gaps that they didn’t feel like properly filling themselves.
Totally agree! I really wanted there to be more of an explicit connection tying back to the Klaus incident. Some kind of epic interesting cutscene at the end of the game kind of like how we had in 1 & 2.
The founders aren't Noah and Mio. It's implied to be N & M's children. It even mentions they are siblings. Plus, founder Vandham's stone mentions the first city being destroyed by N.
Also Vandham being the name of Noah's son makes sense because queen Nia was still awake and around back then and it's confirmed that she knew Mio/M. It's very likely she would have told N or M stories about Vandham from Xenoblade 2.
One thing I've noticed when Noah passes in front of his child. I thought it was weird that he just left his kid in the middle of the woods on his final day. Then I thought, what if Noah didn't realize that it was the day of his homecoming. That makes me think that after Mio died, Noah stopped keeping track of how long until his homecoming. Maybe to not have to think about or know how little time he has left
Noah: Im sorry, Son, but I must go now. Just know that Mommy and Daddy love you so much that I took you into the middle of this forest, that probably has animals that wont think twice about ripping you apart. All for this really emotional and touching moment. Son: Dad please take me ba- Noah: byyyyyeeeee Sooooooon!
I really think Mio named her son Vandham. If we’re accepting the theory that the founder of House Vandham is Noah or someone related to him, then if would make sense if it was his son who’s name was taken for that house.
My dumbass didnt realize that it was actually Mio that showed Noah N's memories so I was super confused as to why she appeared at the end, thx for clearing that up
I don't think that Lucky Seven necessarily HAS to be unique. It's forged from Origin metal IIRC, which we see lying around literally everywhere. Although, N's blade disappearing seems to be pretty good evidence, it's worth noting that their blades have different designs - I'm pretty sure N's version has the circle thingy on the opposite edge of the blade to Noah, like it's mirrored. Also, their blades resonate resonate with each other, which seems to me to indicate that N's blade is made of authentic Origin metal. The same thing happens when Noah first encounters an Ouroboros stone, and when they're hunting down Origin metal for the Ultimate Boat Vessel.
I remember Z or Melia saying something about Noah, Mio and Friends being reborn past homecoming, or at least that they shouldn't be alive or something like that. And that memory where N and M are escaping through the snow storm, with the rest of the group having the same voices of the current group, is used as a nightmare (or something) for Noah, caused by his doubts of where is he leading them truly. Because of this I understood that the rest of the gang actually has the same "gift" that N and M have for coming back even when they aren't supposed to do so (not necessarily a gift, maybe is something more circumstantial). Perhaps the rest of the group is not as reelevant to Z as Mio and Noah were actually Ouroboros and got inside Origin, and maybe they even come back more often. But in the end, they would not be the only ones to come back.
was the cutscene with the kid really prior to the city's construction? i would've thought it was after they ran away since we never saw them die in the blizzard, they found an abandoned base and settled themselves there (seeing as if it was the first city, we would've been seeing at least a hint of water sea)
The reason why N still has that sword is because the sword is essentially a manifestation of the power of origin. Noah's lucky seven in Melias power, while the ouroboros form gets access to the sword of origin since it combined both Melia and Nias power, giving him access to the power of Origin. N still has the sword of the end can use the sword of origin because he's being given that power FROM Z, who currently rules Origin and the power it holds. That's why Noah's sword of origin is stronger too, since it's the real thing and not an imitation. They're both the same sword, with the power it holds granted by differing parties. Noah uses the keys from the keys to access origin, while N is granted it by Z
I know this is not a Xenogears video, But You forgot to Mention how Fey is also a reincarnation of Abel, so This plot point of being reborn over and over is not new to the series but it's cool to see it again. Abel has more Story/Lore Relevance in Xenosaga but it's just another fact that I felt went missing in this video but the focus was on Noah and explaining how N came to existence.
That's what I hate about 3. I've seen so many comments about how the game mimics Xenogears and as a player of only the Xenoblade games, I'd prefer it if I didn't have to play 25 year-old games just to get some kind of meaning behind the game.
@@mrbubbles6468 Ok but, if Xenogears didn't exist, would people still be excited by the same plot? What I'm saying is that most people who liked the story of XC3 were people who have already played Xenogears. The rest think that it wasn't anything special.
pretty sure N's Sword of Origin is a real Sword of Origin, at least "real" within Aionios, which is probably a cognitive world inside Origin's soul matrix that doesn't even exist in the same physical universe as XC1 World and Alrest. Melia's mention of "everything that exists is reality" pretty much sells me that Aionios is not a "physical" place, but still "real" because it exists as a manifestation of the collective unconscious. tldr Aionios is Mementos
There is also a difference between the Noahs. Noah indeed got the sword "Lucky seven" from Riku, as Riku was safekeeping it, however Noah directly asks for permission from Riku to change the name. So the Noah who originally named it doesn't have the same opinion about the name "lucky seven" given to the sword. Now what this new name is what our Noah named it too, we don't actually know, as Noah never explained it to Mio after she asked. My best guess would be "the unlimited" as that is the technique's name (unlimited sword) when Noah get's temporary invincible, just my thoughts though.
I thought based on who turned moebius that those who commit suicide can become moebius, maybe because they chose their own death instead of dying in battle or to a homecoming, since M never came back and couldn't return to the cycle I think people who die in homecoming don't come back, just like they said in the beginning of chapter 6 Noa and Mio didn't die in homecoming per se, they died after their 10th term but weren't present for their send off, so is that still counted as a homecoming, maybe it's closer to suicide in the rules of the world, or maybe people who aren't sent off in a homecoming aren't released from the cycle and that's how Noah and Mio were able to become moebius
ok here something for you. any reason why there no blade or bird people in the city nor mechon?. its very odd and I think is because many of the city people are mainly humans from XB2 world and explains the lack of them in the agnus army. blades cant have kids that would explain the lack of them in the city even do a founder is clearly a blade. Mio can have kids like her mother because of her relation to been part fleshe eater.
@@JBspherefreak Alrighty! Yea it definitely has to be one, I think it was only once asked why Noah's sword looks different and then we got that flashback where Noah refused to get Lucky Seven. That whole Sword of Origin/End confused me tbh. But maybe that'll be some DLC stuff. We got Alvis as Monado. The Aegis as Monado. And maybe Noah getting access to something entirely else? At least I think it'd be awesome to get a sequel DLC that will end like Alvis meeting Pyra/Mythra and Malos. So they become cores and by combining Ontos, Pneuma and Logos, the Trinity Processor becomes a whole and this unites both worlds, ending the Klaus Saga
I’m still confused. Primarily from how the descendants of city were formed. If everyone but Noah’s kid was tied to the 10 year expiration date, how did that city develop? Wouldn’t everyone one just die in 10 years except Noah’s kid?
Yoooo I just noticed that Z has Moebius symbols in both his eyes. This is probably just to show that he's above all the other Moebius, but it could mean he's an Interlink... do we ever see X and Y in the same place as Z? They all look super similar
Probably just another reference to how he was born as a mobius, instead of being transformed into one. X and Y also have two mobius symbols on their eyes
The main thing I don’t get is why they were able to split or reincarnate at all, due to their “white light” looking the same as when someone is sent off or when a Moebius dies Also I thought there were meant to be several Lucky 7’s, like a set that the sages made? Also also if Noah and Mio or their children were meant to be two of the founders, how does that work with the stated fact of how all founders were the original 6 ouroboros? Cause the Noah with a kid isn’t a founder probably, but he has an ouroboros. We also don’t know whether that was the earliest Noah we saw or not And one last thing, I can kinda get some of the Noah stuff as his reincarnations were somewhat chosen to be guided down the right path by people like the queens and Riku, but why is Mio also always in the same positions and meeting similar fates (finding Noah, becoming Ouroboros, etc.) even tho she doesn’t have anything special like being chosen going on? Legitimately curious if anyone has any info, cause I’m almost certain I missed something for most of this stuff lmao
The only thing I can think of regarding Mio is that she's Rex's and Nia's descendant or even daughter. But I dunno if that has to do with anything. I'm just as confused as you hahahaha
Few questions on Blackblaze Dirk is he a reincarnation of Mumkhar? will he be just a serial killer who lacks 1000 years of Kombat experience in the dlc?
@@JBspherefreak To put it simply, the fact she's Nia's daughter might have something to do with it. Barring that, maybe the souls of the major characters from XC1 and 2 granted them a pseudo Moebius effect to ensure they could succeed in reclaiming Origin. As in, the hopes of those who move towards the future combatting the fear that created Z.
Incorrect, Blades can change their shape depending on the type of weapon the wielder wishes to use. If you look at that cutscene in full, you'll see her using Ghondors Gauntlets before changing to the gun. She just changed the shape of her blade
so n and m aren’t descendants of those founders because they’re the founders of the second city after N destroyed the first, with the Noah looking statue’s description explicitly saying he retook the city from N. Those statues are actually probably N and M’s kids, which is why Vandam house is an Agnus house and why the two statues say they seem to have been siblings
So what exactly is Noa? Could he be a child of both worlds. Borned before the merging or is he a decendant of Shulk and thereby have parts of the conduits power inside him?
Not entirely sure yet, the theory that me and a few people are running with tho is a bit crazy (there is ABSOLUTELY no evidence to support this and it’s just insane speculation on our behalf) but we think Noah could be Klaus and Galea’s son. If Galea was pregnant at the time of the experiment, it could have had some inverse effects on the child and make him similar to the contact in gears. Through that, he would be able to reincarnate over and over again because of the conduit
The assumption is that this is because it's still the end of their lives and they're life energy then takes this colour for that reason. That said, they still manage to come back afterwards anyway
I think it implies that Z came into being from the Origin machine itself. Think about the way Core Crystals work from XBC 2, the Driver can shape the appearance and personality of the blade, think about Malos- his personality was crafted from Amalthus's contempt for the world, hence why Malos seeks to destroy. Think about Wulfric- a Blade with a monster look due to him being bonded to a literal monster that gave him form. Z was sort of like these same feelings similar to Amalthus except it was all of the souls/data that were in Origin and their "Fears" and all negative emotions of going through the merging and their seemingly impending deaths, this emotion was able to create Z to "save them" by putting them in the "forever now", except Z was formed from only negative emotions hence why he doesn't seem to be able to comprehend anything but what he does in a twisted way, like a computer program that is only programmed to do 1 thing, but since it only does that 1 thing it can't comprehend external "ideas". X and Y are extensions of Z (being original moebius), I think X and Y are meant to represent the XBC1 world (X) and the XBC2 world (Y). In the final battle you get split apart with the main cast from Keves (XBC1) face off against X "infinity" and then Agnus members face off against Y "infinity". In their minds they are "protecting" the world in the "forever now" since that is how they came into being, protecting people from "eternal death". (Notice how when a lot of moebius die they act childlike and are terrified of death themselves crying out in agony, the same way the "souls within origin" didn't want to die.) An interesting coincidence is that in mathematics to create and plot a 3 dimensional location, you need a X, Y, and Z plane, and the point in the center where these planes converge? That's called the "Point of Origin". Origin is located in the center of Aionios, the "Created world" from Z,Y, and X.
Okay but they aren't the only people to give off white light sparkles upon death. All the Moebius do it, as does anyone and anything the Offseers are sending off. Saying that their bizarre and unexplained ability can be seen manifesting this way is a bit of a leap in logic.
Because N and Vandham are two seperate people. The Noah who was around during the time of this Vandham was the one who became N and so when he went to the city, he fought against Vandham. It's only a theory at the moment but we believe that Vandham was never actually a founder but that needs a lot more explaination in the Founders video
@@jimothy500 Yes it would considering they look alike but its still a little complicated at the moment. An idea I'm running with is that Phil either had a sister or had kids of his own. One of them was a Boy who became Vandham and the other was the Gormotti girl as they are "Supposedly" brother and sister. Mio's genes are likely in Phil so it makes sense kinda but I need to do more research into it
@@JBspherefreak I've been thinking about this topic as well with the name of Vandham. Since that was a surname from XBC2 world and not XBC1 world. Nia during her side quests talks to Ghondor and explains how a Vandham saved her life in the past (The one we know from XBC2) and thus has a great deal of respect for the name Vandham, however the Vandham in XBC2 wasn't his real name but a borrowed name as well, so it seems like this name is more likely a passed down name. Rex inherited Vandham's crew during the course of the game, so it would make sense Rex's descendants could have used that surname and passed it down ( This includeds Nia since theories points that REx and her also had a child together). However this possibly means that The Founder's parents for the 2 siblings have to be from both worlds as well since "House Vandham" looks like Noah (XBC1 world) and his sister looks like Gormotti (XBC2 world). The importance of the name had to have been passed down from someone familiar with XBC2 world but also needs to have genes from the XBC1 world to have the male founder look similar to Noah. Yet, we only see N and M having 1 child together, a boy. These are just some thoughts I've been spinning around as well. REally interesting topic to dive into!
In Xenogears isn't Grahf Fey's father instead? One of his versions of him. And Fey's other versions are Id and the coward? Also I'm not as optimistic as you are as to if we'll get an explanation as to why Noah and Mio are special. I really hope we do because it sucks the "well you are both chosen ones GG" explanation at the end of the game like that. Also at the end of the video you say Noah/N gained Ouroboros from Z but that's Moebius power right? Ouroboros is a circular shape, not the infinity symbol. And we can assume that it's either his son or their next versions of themselves that got Ouroboros and founded the city so it can't be N.
@@caracalfloppa4997 I've played pretty much all the Xenoblades already so that's not an issue at all. Just the stuff like some aspects of N and M (how are there two of em each, how did N and M break the rules of the Homecoming) or where the black fog came from exactly, etc confuses the hell outta me. So far, it seems these two in particular are similar to elements shown in Xenogears/Xenosaga.
Would’ve been a lot better if N had been the big bad and given some more depth to go along with that, might’ve done the game’s ending chapters a lot of good.
The first thing I thought when I found that Z is voiced by Harry Lloyd was 'man what a waste'. I understand he's more a concept, but they didn't have to make him so bland as a character.
Massive Plot hole! Glen Cadoret but how could the city have been around long enough? The first Ouroboros ousted N which means they must have still been alive, but Mio says that by the time N goes to destroy the city, it contains the descendants of people who became Ouroboros in the past, indicating that loads of time had passed, or that the first Ouroboros were long dead. This doesn’t make any sense, how can they still be alive to ousted N but the city contains their descendants?????? N and N aren’t part of the founders! They can’t be! They founded the first city, but not the second! The First Ouroboros, how did the manage to have descendants? Mio states that the First City inhabitants are descendants of M N and other people who became Ouroboros, which means that the First Ouroboros founded the first city. Considering that, how did they manage to have a lot of descendants by the time N attacks? Mio says the first City was teeming with life? 🤯🤯🤯🤯
I think the main question is who are the actual first Ouroboros. Noah(N) and Mio(M) who had a child weren't Ouroboros. That child most likely didn't grow up to become one of the first Ouroboros either. We know there is a brother/sister who were part of the 1st Ouroboros. It would make sense that Noah and Mio's child grew up and had continued the family line, eventually where a son and daughter were born who then become the brother and sister duo who founded of House Doyle and House Vandham. This would imply Noah(N) took a long time before deciding to become Moebius. A lot of people assume N immediately chose to become Moebius after his son watched him turn into gold dust. The game makes it feel like it, but to me when we see Noah turn into gold armor Moebius N, his whole facial demeanor looks like he was broken into making this decision after a long time. During this time Noah's and Mio's child was able to grow up and continue the family line. This would explain the City being filled with "descendants" when N goes to destroy it. Because some of them are descendants of Noah(N).
N constantly reviving M and then slaughtering a whole city population just to bring her back without her say in it is pretty damning. Although it is implied she has tried to get through to him but he doesn’t give a damn. That was why she did what she had to.
@@barrykane7844 That's what M needs to be called out on, believing offering herself was the right thing to do instead of not taking 5 minutes to talk to N reasonably. Because if Origin is any indication. it does not take much effort. That's what I am saying. M should be called out for checking out on life. This game revels in flasback, seeing interaction between M and Mio after M had died would not be hard.
@@mrbubbles6468 you miss one small personality trait of N/Noah, they never back down from their decision once it’s made. N is likely to not listen to Ms words
N already made the mistake by forcing her into that life. A defining feature of moebius is that they never grow as people, too, so N would be incredibly unlikely to change his mind. The endless now also applies to your way of thinking. We have no idea what M has tried, off screen, to convince N of the err in his ways. Presumably they spent quite a bit of time together. And finally, *she does* get called out for it. By N. Who can't understand why she would do that to him. Because he is moebius, he lacks an understanding of how people and the world can change. They both return together at the end of the final boss anyway, and effectively deliver the fatal blow.
Harry McEntire did a really great job as Noah and N.
Damn right he did! 👍
@@JBspherefreak let’s not forget about Aimee-Ffion Edwards (especially when Mio and M’s voices were overlapping). During that time, I notice that Mio and M were goading Noah into striking her (M in Mio’s old body) down
Here’s hoping either one of them gets nominated for Best VA at the game awards
Agreed
@@tirzahroseroot thanks for reminding me 😔
Listen, Christopher Judge as Kratos was always projected to win, and while I think GOW Ragnarok was robbing XC3 of best Soundtrack, Christopher Judge was a valid win, but a nomination nonetheless goes a long way to highlight either of their rising voice acting careers. Harry McEntire is even interested in pursuing voice acting now after his decently successful TV live acting background (was in Last Kingdom portraying a major antagonist Æthelwold. Though admittedly I haven’t seen any Aimee-Ffion Edwards interviews after her performances of Mio and Ranni (Elden Ring), who also portrayed Esme Shelby in Peaky Blinders, so I don’t know if Edwards is interested in more voice acting roles.
There is one other noteworthy detail, in Chapter 1, during his fight vs Mio, Noah thinks:
„Something strange is going on. We shouldn‘t be fighting like this. We should run…! Run? Was it…me who just said that?“
Basically he was repeating a thought of his last life, where they ran away.
HOLY SHIT, that scene makes so much more sense now! 😂
big brain bruh
I was rewatching that cutscene after finishing the game and just about leapt out of my seat when I heard that line and realized what it meant.
This game foreshadows so much, even outright spoiling itself in a few scenes, but there's often so much happening you miss it the first time.
@@Laterose15 eh, the "spoilers" via foreshadowing aren't really spoilers because without context you can't possibly know what it refers to.
Spoilers aren't really spoilers if you don't have context.
"But I would speculate that it has something to do with A." 2:20
This man knew what he was talking about.
Why is no one else making story videos like this on Xenoblade 3? Dudes are slacking hard.
Everyone else is still trying to figure out the game whilst I just have a big brain 🧠😂
Everyone else is making class and combat related videos
@@JBspherefreak Yea thanks, I would never have been able to come up with these conclusions myself this quickly, great content!
A lot of people haven't finished the game yet
@@dantemustdie00 Loads of people after the ending were just thinking about rex fucking rather than the actual story
What really happened to Rotbart is the two Rotbarts of XC1 and XC2 couldn't coexist in Aionios so they annihilated each other.
Of course it makes sense!
The Rotbarts were locked in a timeless battle, until at last, only their lifeless corpses remained.
acshually... they banged and had a kid
And they had a child but we killed him too
I know that thing N is missing. It is Lanz because he is MVP. You all thinking of it.
He misses Jin's balls.
He also doesn't have the girl with the gall
Or Eunie the bus
Ya hear that, Noah? Lanz wants something a bit meatier
To me, N is the best Xenoblade villain, because he combines both parts of my former favorite Xenoblade villains, Egil and Jin, N has the Grief and fallen hero standpoint of Jin, along with the Fear and Vengeance of Egil, and I love it, plus the fact that he’s Noah adds this edge of “is Noah going to be in a point where he will have to do what N did?”
I actually like xenoblade's secondary antagonists or its antivillains more than the main antagonists. N, Jin and Egil had more motivations for what they were doing than amalthus/malos, Zanza and Z. Ironically it's the main villains who drove them for their motivations.
@@arclight7892 Pretty sure Malos is an antivillain because he actually doesn't like being evil. Though I feel like it takes until the final battle to see the nuance because almost beside that, he's kinda a d*ck with few redeeming qualities.
The voice acting in this game was God tier.
Especially Harry McEntire as Noah/N
Very much on par with Adam Howden as Shulk.
But that doesn't mean the rest of the cast was bad or even mediocre..Oh no.. FAR from it!
Part of why Xenoblade is so compelling as a story is because of good or at least passable voice acting on nearly every character. A lot of games have VAs that are just atrocious and break suspension of disbelief, Xenoblade has mostly avoided this. Rex is often criticized but honestly it's just because the other leads in the franchise are even better. His voice is good outside of some really awkward screams.
@@caracalfloppa4997 And a lot of the issues with Rex can be chalked up to bad direction.
I think the game implies enough that the Noah with the kid is the one that becomes N. After that death he meets Z and makes the decision to live in the endless now. Noah also mention that he felt the child’s embrace and the struck N.
That was what I initially thought, but there wouldn't be enough time for that Noah to have had any descendants beyond his son, I would think.
The baby’s actual name the first Vandham. There are many ways to connect this.
First and the weakest connection is with the line Noah says, “I am not very good at naming.” We know Monica Vandham isn’t good with naming because of Ghondor always upset about it. Ghondor even says, “I wish I could have a better name.” Maybe this is a coincidence or not but that’s why it’s the weakest connection.
Next connection is with the statue in the city of house Vandham. The first comment made on that statue is by Eunie, “This one has Noah’s chin.” This statue is similar to Noah but not exactly him. It’s his son.
Reading the statue you see that he fought against N and ousted him from the City. This is how they were able to create a new City since Vandham was able to stop his dad somehow. Weather it was N not wanting to kill his son or something else we don’t know.
Lastly, you can see they also had a daughter as well. The statue with cat ears to Vandham states that they were blood related. She is also the one who sets up the new City.
So while it would be funny if the kids name was Phil. He is actually the first Vandham.
So I'm thinking of an idea along these lines BUT Phil is not necessarily the Vandham founder due to him not having a sister. I reckon Phil had kids and they became the Founders instead
I don’t think that is true for 2 details absent in the story, like why didn’t we see their daughter or not mention it the cutscene when Noah disappeared, “Like take care of your sister”, that all it’s needed to hint the theory, or the part that Noah didn’t care about murdering all his other descendants, why would he care about one more? The more likely explanation is that M help the head of house Vandam to stop N. That doesn’t necessarily needs lineage to get help. Are they related? yeah probably, but I wouldn’t go and say that the head of house Vandham was N and M’s son, a descendant is more likely.
naaahhh, the kid surely founder the city but to connect it to vandam.... nah too far. but thats only me tho
I thought that too, but there's never any mention of N and M having a daughter. There's a lot of unanswered questions I'm sure nintendo and Monolithsoft are gonna raid our wallets for, with the expansion pass. I'm glad we got a complete story with the vanilla game but there's just too much left unanswered, it feels kinda scummy.
No, bc we know the Vandham and Doyle founders were siblings. Yet it wasn't stated whether Phil had a sister, and why wouldn't she be present for Mio's or Noah's departure?
Harry McEntire as Noah & N really gave Adam Howden as Shulk a run for his money in terms of raw emotion. The fact he was able to play the role of a hero & a villain to bear absolute perfection was astonishing. For the most part I felt a lot of Moebius to be “just okay” I mean yeah each of them had their own distinctive personalities but most never actually stood out to me. However like you said N & M were easily the best & I really just couldn’t help but feel for their entire story. Especially N who to me is one of the most tragic characters in the entire franchise. In the end with everything he did, you can’t really blame the guy for the choices he made. He was a man with a broken heart & having to witness the one you love die over & over again...it would break even the strongest person.
I honestly hope that the DLC is a sequel more than a prequel, we already got most of the details from this game.
The dlc will most likely be about the founders and the destruction of the first city
@@chadren7249 so torna again
@@windwaker0rules I think so. I just can't imagine a sequel. Especially when it's confirmed that Rex and Shulk are dead
@@chadren7249 It’s also concerned at the end of the game the worlds reset and merged correctly so they’ll be alive for a Sequel.
@@chadren7249 it isn't though
When it boils down to it N and mobeus is just the Nietzsche concept of the darkness and the void within every person
The childs name isnt phil its grandad
Loving these lore videos given that the story of 3 is way more criptical and confusing than the other 2 games. Looking forward for the rest of the series explaining everything about the lore
I personally disagree that Z "left a lot to be desired" as stated in the opening. Based on what I understand of Z, I see him as more of a force of nature rather than a real person with understandable motivations. He's the amalgamation of all the desires of the dead. I think he's much better if you look at him this way.
Same
The fact that people aren’t looking at him like that when the game explicitly tells you that’s what he is and you should look at him like that is funny to me
Yeah I agree with this, like he is a being created from the fear of change, the fear of letting things move, the fear of making mistakes. He isn’t a person like malos (who tbh I thought was pretty bland till the world tree) or Jin, which is why I think lots of people didn’t like him as he isn’t written the same way as those 2. I do think his personality could’ve been done better (mainly because I was kind of fed up of the theatre semantics that every consul spouted prior), however what he is and how he adds to the larger narrative is golden imo. And the fact he still thinks he’s the good guy by giving people endless possibilities in the endless now is very interesting as his mindset is deeply wrong. As by allowing people to live, die, and live over and over again without any preconception about their previous lives, it actually makes the people of Aionios void of progression, as progression needs change. And I feel like D (who I think also adds a lot to 3’s message) perfectly represent how flawed Z’s perspective on his actions actually are, as D no matter how many times he lived, how many times he came back and was giving another chance in these ‘endless possibilities’, he was still a murderous maniac who loved to kill, because the world that Z created did not give him the means to change himself, to make mistakes and learn, and to let things move. I don’t think Z is on par with Jin and Malos (he’s around Almathus level for me personally), not even on the level of other villains in 3 like N and Shania ,but I won’t say he is bad, just written differently than the other villains. However 3 does have a villain problem, a lot of the consuls are just white noise villains that do nothing but distract the players from the good villains of 3. Also the fact that so many consuls are beaten in hero quests really lowers their overall threat level, and makes moebius overall less intimidating. Sorry for the ramble lol.
Yep, he's a concept, not a character. Origin contains all this data and all these memories and ideas, and in each one of those, a tiny bit of Moebius was implanted unintentionally by the creator of each bit of data. All of that fear of the future manifested itself as Z, and that's all Z is and needs to be.
To me Z not being a person is exactly the issue.
You're not fighting someone _with_ their own motivations you're just fighting _a_ motivation.
I'm glad for anyone that enjoyed Z for what it was but personally I found it way less compelling than Zanza and Malos.
Though removed from that I think 3 had the best finale in the series.
The way Noah and Miyo splits in two is interesting.
How can they do that? It reminds me the way Shulk was an "empty shell" of Zanza.
Shulk developed a "new" soul having strong relationships with his friends that made him back alive when Zanza came out. In Fiora's case, she and Mayneth lived in the same body when Egil emplanted Mayneth conciusness in Fiora's body, splitting back in a second moment during Mayneth sacrifice. In XC2 we see this doppelganger mechanism between Pyra and Mythra but they are two half of the same soul born only due to a limitation mechanism to prevent the distruction of the world. In XC3 it's hard to explain... it's like the will or the despair of what N&M did that gave life to a new Noah and Miyo puppet, becouse their real souls denied that fate. But should be the Origin to choose something like this, and the Origin is in Z's hands. Their will to go over this despair just bugged the system...? Or there's a "divine power discendence" power in thir bloodlines in some ways?
In XC1 and 2 you have some reasons to the fact that protagonists can brake the rules, in XC3 this is not really well justified.
i personally believe that Noah and Mio's unique reincarnation's are caused by Melia using the little influence over origin that she does have due to being connected to it as a way to oppose this Z.
I think this makes alot of sense since one of N's main motivaitions in chapter 4 was to make Melia lose all hope wich implies some level of resentment towards her plus she is clearly the one who gave N and Noah their unique blades and the lucky seven (through Riku).
Dude this makes so much sense
Tora made origin and lucky seven
@@gottpersoenlich Tora made the Agnus side of Origin, the Keves side was made by Melia and I guess some other engineers, but we don't really know who made Lucky Seven just that it was made by nopon and handed down to Riku by his masterpon. It would make sense that Melia was that masterpon and she somehow gave Lucky Seven to Riku. If Melia is behind Lucky it would also explain why it looks kinda like the Monado.
I started the video with “why not, seems like a fun video” then you said territorial rotbart and you had my full attention.
The reason Noah got lucky is the Noah we play has is the seventh version of Noah, N was the Sixth version of Noah.
And the name of the sword was probably the name Lucky Seven
I'm just gonna be honest... I feel really bad for N.
I think the reason Noah and Mio are so special is that they’re probably the only two who had any awareness during the moment where time slowed to a crawl and the collision of the worlds.
You had me at “the truth about the dissappearence of territorial rotbart”
I like how you used the eunie clip "got any babies"
I'm so glad I subbed to you so long ago, seeing your Xeno success makes me feel I've interlinked with another brother!
Keep it up! 👍
I feel like thats one of the nicest and best comments I've ever seen on here, thanks man 😊👍
Can’t help but read your thumbnail as “Nom” with N’s head in the middle 😂
Glad I’m not the only one who got major Fei and Elly vibes from Noah and Mio.
Adding to the confusion of the order of events and their true nature, the versions of N and M that had their kid release yellow particles when they die instead of the typical white when their other selves died...
Also a certain moebius member has the same white particles when they pass away.
Really love your thumbnails they're high quality as hell
I assumed when Z talked about Noah and Mio "persisting", he was simply referring to how they keep challenging him and his system across multiple incarnations, and didn't have anything to do with being able to "survive past homecoming".
Frankly, I dislike the notion that Noah and Mio were just born different. That's not a thing in Xenoblade. There's always a reason things are the way they are and why the protagonist will gain access to divine power.
Gonna be honest, as almost predictable as it may have been, i wish Z was actually zanza, or his will or something that reformed into the original moebius after his death to put the world back into its never ending cycle. If anything just to give him SOME kind of identity, really wasnt feeling the whole "he's just some faceless evil that sprung up out of nowhere". Plus having him be zanza would have put an end to the klaus saga like they said this game would. To me this game just left too many plot threads hanging for "a story conclusion" and needed more connections to the previous games (like the conduit and aegis's)
Pretty sure it has to somehow be zanza, every other consol in game including d has a name beginning with that letter, and him being named z and the other two games having zanza/one of zanzas core crystals being the final boss, it would fit the trend
Z is the collective unconscious of the data of both Rex's and Shulk's worlds within origin and a representation of humanity's fear and despair. He's not a direct individual, but rather a representation of the power such feelings have over others. This is why he is an original being, and all the moebius are people who gave into fear or a desire to live in an idealized eternity along with him, such as N. Unlike other xeno games, xeno 3 leaves almost everything to the player to interpret by themselves as if it were a novel or literary work. Honestly quite cool but it does leave a lot of gaps and unanswered questions regarding the legacy of N's past lives, where origins power stems from or what the fog beasts even were in future connected.
Seems this game is just turning into ‘headcanon: the game’ when it comes to those later chapters. Maybe a bit of an overexaggeration but everyone is theorising, assuming and adding stuff to the story because of how disappointing it is when just taking what the story actually gives us. Leaving things for the player to interpret would be one thing, but you can’t just do that with plot-important things that leave people confused or just disappointed.
Not criticising anyone for their headcanons, this game is practically begging you to fill in the gaps that they didn’t feel like properly filling themselves.
Totally agree! I really wanted there to be more of an explicit connection tying back to the Klaus incident. Some kind of epic interesting cutscene at the end of the game kind of like how we had in 1 & 2.
The founders aren't Noah and Mio. It's implied to be N & M's children. It even mentions they are siblings. Plus, founder Vandham's stone mentions the first city being destroyed by N.
Also Vandham being the name of Noah's son makes sense because queen Nia was still awake and around back then and it's confirmed that she knew Mio/M. It's very likely she would have told N or M stories about Vandham from Xenoblade 2.
One thing I've noticed when Noah passes in front of his child. I thought it was weird that he just left his kid in the middle of the woods on his final day. Then I thought, what if Noah didn't realize that it was the day of his homecoming. That makes me think that after Mio died, Noah stopped keeping track of how long until his homecoming. Maybe to not have to think about or know how little time he has left
Noah: Im sorry, Son, but I must go now. Just know that Mommy and Daddy love you so much that I took you into the middle of this forest, that probably has animals that wont think twice about ripping you apart. All for this really emotional and touching moment.
Son: Dad please take me ba-
Noah: byyyyyeeeee Sooooooon!
I really think Mio named her son Vandham. If we’re accepting the theory that the founder of House Vandham is Noah or someone related to him, then if would make sense if it was his son who’s name was taken for that house.
Vandham is more of a surname tho which would have worked IF Noah named him but Mio did
Now we know they named him Ghondor
My dumbass didnt realize that it was actually Mio that showed Noah N's memories so I was super confused as to why she appeared at the end, thx for clearing that up
I don't think that Lucky Seven necessarily HAS to be unique. It's forged from Origin metal IIRC, which we see lying around literally everywhere. Although, N's blade disappearing seems to be pretty good evidence, it's worth noting that their blades have different designs - I'm pretty sure N's version has the circle thingy on the opposite edge of the blade to Noah, like it's mirrored. Also, their blades resonate resonate with each other, which seems to me to indicate that N's blade is made of authentic Origin metal. The same thing happens when Noah first encounters an Ouroboros stone, and when they're hunting down Origin metal for the Ultimate Boat Vessel.
I remember Z or Melia saying something about Noah, Mio and Friends being reborn past homecoming, or at least that they shouldn't be alive or something like that. And that memory where N and M are escaping through the snow storm, with the rest of the group having the same voices of the current group, is used as a nightmare (or something) for Noah, caused by his doubts of where is he leading them truly.
Because of this I understood that the rest of the gang actually has the same "gift" that N and M have for coming back even when they aren't supposed to do so (not necessarily a gift, maybe is something more circumstantial). Perhaps the rest of the group is not as reelevant to Z as Mio and Noah were actually Ouroboros and got inside Origin, and maybe they even come back more often. But in the end, they would not be the only ones to come back.
N's song to M: ruclips.net/video/vtfw5hDv9AU/видео.html
M's song to N: ruclips.net/video/O5BznkHfvmA/видео.html
(Sorry if there's any inconsistencies)
was the cutscene with the kid really prior to the city's construction? i would've thought it was after they ran away since we never saw them die in the blizzard, they found an abandoned base and settled themselves there (seeing as if it was the first city, we would've been seeing at least a hint of water sea)
I still find it strange how in N’s memories his ‘sheath’ has the moebius insignia
Thats probably just shorthand so you know its N
The reason why N still has that sword is because the sword is essentially a manifestation of the power of origin. Noah's lucky seven in Melias power, while the ouroboros form gets access to the sword of origin since it combined both Melia and Nias power, giving him access to the power of Origin. N still has the sword of the end can use the sword of origin because he's being given that power FROM Z, who currently rules Origin and the power it holds. That's why Noah's sword of origin is stronger too, since it's the real thing and not an imitation. They're both the same sword, with the power it holds granted by differing parties. Noah uses the keys from the keys to access origin, while N is granted it by Z
I know this is not a Xenogears video, But You forgot to Mention how Fey is also a reincarnation of Abel, so This plot point of being reborn over and over is not new to the series but it's cool to see it again. Abel has more Story/Lore Relevance in Xenosaga but it's just another fact that I felt went missing in this video but the focus was on Noah and explaining how N came to existence.
Also Noah Mio Spliting could be just Origin doing some bug in the software
He's Grahf/Lacan from Xenogears but with less time to develop.
Yup. Noah and N is just a retelling of Xenogears
That's what I hate about 3. I've seen so many comments about how the game mimics Xenogears and as a player of only the Xenoblade games, I'd prefer it if I didn't have to play 25 year-old games just to get some kind of meaning behind the game.
You don’t have to play a 25 year old game to get the meaning. The meaning is all contained in XC3. They are just saying they share a plot point.
@@mrbubbles6468 Ok but, if Xenogears didn't exist, would people still be excited by the same plot? What I'm saying is that most people who liked the story of XC3 were people who have already played Xenogears. The rest think that it wasn't anything special.
@@Izelor what? People that haven't played Xenogears also loved the story of the game. Whare they heck did you find any of that?
@@keeysOST A lot of people think that the plot of 3 is weak compared to the previous 2 games and the villains are terrible.
This guy needs more subs
Crazy how in the same chapter they do a switch and bait death and suicide
Ya, half way through it I realized it was Xenogears.
pretty sure N's Sword of Origin is a real Sword of Origin, at least "real" within Aionios, which is probably a cognitive world inside Origin's soul matrix that doesn't even exist in the same physical universe as XC1 World and Alrest. Melia's mention of "everything that exists is reality" pretty much sells me that Aionios is not a "physical" place, but still "real" because it exists as a manifestation of the collective unconscious.
tldr Aionios is Mementos
What I meant was that Noah wields the REAL Lucky Seven in that reality whereas N's is just constructed from his blade/ Both are real
There is also a difference between the Noahs. Noah indeed got the sword "Lucky seven" from Riku, as Riku was safekeeping it, however Noah directly asks for permission from Riku to change the name. So the Noah who originally named it doesn't have the same opinion about the name "lucky seven" given to the sword. Now what this new name is what our Noah named it too, we don't actually know, as Noah never explained it to Mio after she asked. My best guess would be "the unlimited" as that is the technique's name (unlimited sword) when Noah get's temporary invincible, just my thoughts though.
I thought based on who turned moebius that those who commit suicide can become moebius, maybe because they chose their own death instead of dying in battle or to a homecoming, since M never came back and couldn't return to the cycle I think people who die in homecoming don't come back, just like they said in the beginning of chapter 6
Noa and Mio didn't die in homecoming per se, they died after their 10th term but weren't present for their send off, so is that still counted as a homecoming, maybe it's closer to suicide in the rules of the world, or maybe people who aren't sent off in a homecoming aren't released from the cycle and that's how Noah and Mio were able to become moebius
ok here something for you. any reason why there no blade or bird people in the city nor mechon?. its very odd and I think is because many of the city people are mainly humans from XB2 world and explains the lack of them in the agnus army. blades cant have kids that would explain the lack of them in the city even do a founder is clearly a blade. Mio can have kids like her mother because of her relation to been part fleshe eater.
I really wonder why Noah's sword looks like a Monado
Because it is one (Gotta explain all that in the Sword of Origin/The End video)
@@JBspherefreak Alrighty! Yea it definitely has to be one, I think it was only once asked why Noah's sword looks different and then we got that flashback where Noah refused to get Lucky Seven. That whole Sword of Origin/End confused me tbh.
But maybe that'll be some DLC stuff. We got Alvis as Monado. The Aegis as Monado. And maybe Noah getting access to something entirely else? At least I think it'd be awesome to get a sequel DLC that will end like Alvis meeting Pyra/Mythra and Malos. So they become cores and by combining Ontos, Pneuma and Logos, the Trinity Processor becomes a whole and this unites both worlds, ending the Klaus Saga
I’m still confused. Primarily from how the descendants of city were formed. If everyone but Noah’s kid was tied to the 10 year expiration date, how did that city develop? Wouldn’t everyone one just die in 10 years except Noah’s kid?
Guilty as charged, checked the timeline
Yoooo I just noticed that Z has Moebius symbols in both his eyes. This is probably just to show that he's above all the other Moebius, but it could mean he's an Interlink... do we ever see X and Y in the same place as Z? They all look super similar
Probably just another reference to how he was born as a mobius, instead of being transformed into one. X and Y also have two mobius symbols on their eyes
@@cybersoul2809 Ohhh sick
X, Y, and Z all have the symbol in both eyes. All 3 were Mobius from the start.
Thats such a sick thunbnail.
The main thing I don’t get is why they were able to split or reincarnate at all, due to their “white light” looking the same as when someone is sent off or when a Moebius dies
Also I thought there were meant to be several Lucky 7’s, like a set that the sages made?
Also also if Noah and Mio or their children were meant to be two of the founders, how does that work with the stated fact of how all founders were the original 6 ouroboros? Cause the Noah with a kid isn’t a founder probably, but he has an ouroboros. We also don’t know whether that was the earliest Noah we saw or not
And one last thing, I can kinda get some of the Noah stuff as his reincarnations were somewhat chosen to be guided down the right path by people like the queens and Riku, but why is Mio also always in the same positions and meeting similar fates (finding Noah, becoming Ouroboros, etc.) even tho she doesn’t have anything special like being chosen going on?
Legitimately curious if anyone has any info, cause I’m almost certain I missed something for most of this stuff lmao
The only thing I can think of regarding Mio is that she's Rex's and Nia's descendant or even daughter. But I dunno if that has to do with anything. I'm just as confused as you hahahaha
‘Noah and Mio being part of the founders’
Uh huh okay
I thought that quote of them beating rhe system and surviving after homecoming referred to them getting a child?
Few questions on Blackblaze Dirk is he a reincarnation of Mumkhar? will he be just a serial killer who lacks 1000 years of Kombat experience in the dlc?
I don't know how Noah could've gotten the ability to reincarnate after Homecoming, but Mio I have a pretty solid idea.
Whats your idea for Mio then?
@@JBspherefreak To put it simply, the fact she's Nia's daughter might have something to do with it. Barring that, maybe the souls of the major characters from XC1 and 2 granted them a pseudo Moebius effect to ensure they could succeed in reclaiming Origin. As in, the hopes of those who move towards the future combatting the fear that created Z.
inb4 the kid's name is actually Phil
Great video! More lore please.
Working on it! These videos do take a bit of time tho as we need to go over all of the research and such so be a little patient aha
The terretorial rotbart is actually in the game in the pantelas region
That's Gonzales not Robart
@@dantemustdie00 my bad i thought it was him. Although i do think we will see him in the game . Maybe challange mode?
Shayna's sister gunblade didn't disappear as well when she died, her sister was wielding it.
Incorrect, Blades can change their shape depending on the type of weapon the wielder wishes to use. If you look at that cutscene in full, you'll see her using Ghondors Gauntlets before changing to the gun. She just changed the shape of her blade
so n and m aren’t descendants of those founders because they’re the founders of the second city after N destroyed the first, with the Noah looking statue’s description explicitly saying he retook the city from N. Those statues are actually probably N and M’s kids, which is why Vandam house is an Agnus house and why the two statues say they seem to have been siblings
So what exactly is Noa? Could he be a child of both worlds. Borned before the merging or is he a decendant of Shulk and thereby have parts of the conduits power inside him?
Not entirely sure yet, the theory that me and a few people are running with tho is a bit crazy (there is ABSOLUTELY no evidence to support this and it’s just insane speculation on our behalf) but we think Noah could be Klaus and Galea’s son. If Galea was pregnant at the time of the experiment, it could have had some inverse effects on the child and make him similar to the contact in gears. Through that, he would be able to reincarnate over and over again because of the conduit
I finish chapter 5 and yeah my mind get hurt. The xenogears training wasn't good enought.
8:49 how come the motes of light are yellow and not blue (like before) here?
The assumption is that this is because it's still the end of their lives and they're life energy then takes this colour for that reason. That said, they still manage to come back afterwards anyway
Great explanation but a lot of information is wrong since the information from the dlc is not referenced here.
It's a shame we don't know much about z like where is he from how was he created and what is his motivation
I think it implies that Z came into being from the Origin machine itself. Think about the way Core Crystals work from XBC 2, the Driver can shape the appearance and personality of the blade, think about Malos- his personality was crafted from Amalthus's contempt for the world, hence why Malos seeks to destroy. Think about Wulfric- a Blade with a monster look due to him being bonded to a literal monster that gave him form. Z was sort of like these same feelings similar to Amalthus except it was all of the souls/data that were in Origin and their "Fears" and all negative emotions of going through the merging and their seemingly impending deaths, this emotion was able to create Z to "save them" by putting them in the "forever now", except Z was formed from only negative emotions hence why he doesn't seem to be able to comprehend anything but what he does in a twisted way, like a computer program that is only programmed to do 1 thing, but since it only does that 1 thing it can't comprehend external "ideas". X and Y are extensions of Z (being original moebius), I think X and Y are meant to represent the XBC1 world (X) and the XBC2 world (Y). In the final battle you get split apart with the main cast from Keves (XBC1) face off against X "infinity" and then Agnus members face off against Y "infinity". In their minds they are "protecting" the world in the "forever now" since that is how they came into being, protecting people from "eternal death". (Notice how when a lot of moebius die they act childlike and are terrified of death themselves crying out in agony, the same way the "souls within origin" didn't want to die.)
An interesting coincidence is that in mathematics to create and plot a 3 dimensional location, you need a X, Y, and Z plane, and the point in the center where these planes converge? That's called the "Point of Origin". Origin is located in the center of Aionios, the "Created world" from Z,Y, and X.
@@Sticky_the_DJ Holy shiet, all of this makes a lot of sense 😳
they literally tell you all of those things in the final chapter and hint at them throughout most of the game
@@bladehero8490 I was to busy crying
Can you do a video about the Founders?
Thats on the list and is planned to do but I'm not sure when I'll get round to it
I love that part during the finale when Z says, “It’s moebin time,” and proceeds to moeb all over the heroes.
Z told Noah to yield cause his Ouroborin Time was so match for his Moebin Time in that iteration.
Okay but they aren't the only people to give off white light sparkles upon death. All the Moebius do it, as does anyone and anything the Offseers are sending off. Saying that their bizarre and unexplained ability can be seen manifesting this way is a bit of a leap in logic.
I thought the thumbnail said "MoM"
Omg I needed this. Still confusing tho lol
suddenly phil meet a female vandham.
how did the founder from house vandham fight N though?
Because N and Vandham are two seperate people. The Noah who was around during the time of this Vandham was the one who became N and so when he went to the city, he fought against Vandham. It's only a theory at the moment but we believe that Vandham was never actually a founder but that needs a lot more explaination in the Founders video
@@JBspherefreak oooh good theory. i've heard people speculate that the vandham founder is a descendant of a noah, would that not make sense?
@@jimothy500 Yes it would considering they look alike but its still a little complicated at the moment. An idea I'm running with is that Phil either had a sister or had kids of his own. One of them was a Boy who became Vandham and the other was the Gormotti girl as they are "Supposedly" brother and sister. Mio's genes are likely in Phil so it makes sense kinda but I need to do more research into it
With his fists it seems
@@JBspherefreak I've been thinking about this topic as well with the name of Vandham. Since that was a surname from XBC2 world and not XBC1 world. Nia during her side quests talks to Ghondor and explains how a Vandham saved her life in the past (The one we know from XBC2) and thus has a great deal of respect for the name Vandham, however the Vandham in XBC2 wasn't his real name but a borrowed name as well, so it seems like this name is more likely a passed down name. Rex inherited Vandham's crew during the course of the game, so it would make sense Rex's descendants could have used that surname and passed it down ( This includeds Nia since theories points that REx and her also had a child together). However this possibly means that The Founder's parents for the 2 siblings have to be from both worlds as well since "House Vandham" looks like Noah (XBC1 world) and his sister looks like Gormotti (XBC2 world). The importance of the name had to have been passed down from someone familiar with XBC2 world but also needs to have genes from the XBC1 world to have the male founder look similar to Noah. Yet, we only see N and M having 1 child together, a boy. These are just some thoughts I've been spinning around as well. REally interesting topic to dive into!
In Xenogears isn't Grahf Fey's father instead? One of his versions of him. And Fey's other versions are Id and the coward?
Also I'm not as optimistic as you are as to if we'll get an explanation as to why Noah and Mio are special. I really hope we do because it sucks the "well you are both chosen ones GG" explanation at the end of the game like that.
Also at the end of the video you say Noah/N gained Ouroboros from Z but that's Moebius power right? Ouroboros is a circular shape, not the infinity symbol. And we can assume that it's either his son or their next versions of themselves that got Ouroboros and founded the city so it can't be N.
Finally!
Noah and Mio = Fei and Elly
well... this aged well. Territorial Rotbart was gone because he was too busy having a family
We ended his bloodline before it could begin!
N-spells for nigeria
M-is spell for malaysia
So is some of the stuff that I'm confused about in Xenoblade 3 just "play another Xeno game, lol"?
Not all of it but a lot of things are "Inspired" via past Xeno-titles and we can use them to understand how things in Xenoblade work
Yes and no, I think the ending makes WAY more sense when you know the previous two games. I think they will be even more important in the DLC
@@caracalfloppa4997 I've played pretty much all the Xenoblades already so that's not an issue at all. Just the stuff like some aspects of N and M (how are there two of em each, how did N and M break the rules of the Homecoming) or where the black fog came from exactly, etc confuses the hell outta me.
So far, it seems these two in particular are similar to elements shown in Xenogears/Xenosaga.
I disagree with the very first part of your first sentence, but I will listen to the rest and hope the video can only improve from there
I’ll admit… I’m gonna be super disappointed if the dlc is just playing N and M in the past :/
#spoiler
Still wondering ,who tf merge their world and what reason ...
Its like "hi our world merge with the other,so we gonna fight each other "
I called the child Noah jr. Cause I think Jrs are a horrible, unoriginal, and terrible name
Would’ve been a lot better if N had been the big bad and given some more depth to go along with that, might’ve done the game’s ending chapters a lot of good.
Couldn't you at least put a spoiler warning before casually dropping Xenogears spoilers
The first thing I thought when I found that Z is voiced by Harry Lloyd was 'man what a waste'. I understand he's more a concept, but they didn't have to make him so bland as a character.
Massive Plot hole!
Glen Cadoret but how could the city have been around long enough? The first Ouroboros ousted N which means they must have still been alive, but Mio says that by the time N goes to destroy the city, it contains the descendants of people who became Ouroboros in the past, indicating that loads of time had passed, or that the first Ouroboros were long dead. This doesn’t make any sense, how can they still be alive to ousted N but the city contains their descendants??????
N and N aren’t part of the founders!
They can’t be! They founded the first city, but not the second!
The First Ouroboros, how did the manage to have descendants? Mio states that the First City inhabitants are descendants of M N and other people who became Ouroboros, which means that the First Ouroboros founded the first city. Considering that, how did they manage to have a lot of descendants by the time N attacks? Mio says the first City was teeming with life? 🤯🤯🤯🤯
I think the main question is who are the actual first Ouroboros. Noah(N) and Mio(M) who had a child weren't Ouroboros. That child most likely didn't grow up to become one of the first Ouroboros either. We know there is a brother/sister who were part of the 1st Ouroboros. It would make sense that Noah and Mio's child grew up and had continued the family line, eventually where a son and daughter were born who then become the brother and sister duo who founded of House Doyle and House Vandham.
This would imply Noah(N) took a long time before deciding to become Moebius. A lot of people assume N immediately chose to become Moebius after his son watched him turn into gold dust. The game makes it feel like it, but to me when we see Noah turn into gold armor Moebius N, his whole facial demeanor looks like he was broken into making this decision after a long time. During this time Noah's and Mio's child was able to grow up and continue the family line.
This would explain the City being filled with "descendants" when N goes to destroy it. Because some of them are descendants of Noah(N).
The fact that M does what she does and never gets called out for being awful is depressing. The fact she ends up being right is just bad.
N constantly reviving M and then slaughtering a whole city population just to bring her back without her say in it is pretty damning. Although it is implied she has tried to get through to him but he doesn’t give a damn. That was why she did what she had to.
@@barrykane7844 That's what M needs to be called out on, believing offering herself was the right thing to do instead of not taking 5 minutes to talk to N reasonably. Because if Origin is any indication. it does not take much effort. That's what I am saying. M should be called out for checking out on life. This game revels in flasback, seeing interaction between M and Mio after M had died would not be hard.
@@mrbubbles6468 you miss one small personality trait of N/Noah, they never back down from their decision once it’s made. N is likely to not listen to Ms words
N already made the mistake by forcing her into that life. A defining feature of moebius is that they never grow as people, too, so N would be incredibly unlikely to change his mind. The endless now also applies to your way of thinking.
We have no idea what M has tried, off screen, to convince N of the err in his ways. Presumably they spent quite a bit of time together.
And finally, *she does* get called out for it. By N. Who can't understand why she would do that to him. Because he is moebius, he lacks an understanding of how people and the world can change. They both return together at the end of the final boss anyway, and effectively deliver the fatal blow.
@@caracalfloppa4997 That's kind of my point. We don't see crucial things for her. She's not the only character that gets shortchanged.
Such a waste of a good character.
Probably the weakest villain in xeno series
Who are you referring to? N?