Fantastic. Great design. Torque sensing pedal assist is the ultimate ebike feeling. I compare it to driving a stick shift vehicle, and PAS is like driving an automatic.
This Photon has such a cool look to it, well done to the designers. It looks like a premium product and just what I have been waiting for. I will be buying one as soon as they are available 👍🏼 thanks guys.
Good to see some bafang competition and I'm sure the price will improve fairly quickly. In the past I considered CYC to be in more of an off-road electric motor bike category but this should appeal to commuters and rec riders as well. I'll definitely be watching to see how durable it will be and hope they're not sacrificing dependability for weight and size savings. We already know the BBSHD and BBSO2 are bullet proof.
@@electrifybike It's been 7 months now I've rode the bike a mile with a new controller they sent me🥴 Then the bike started doing the same thing error code says( Torque sensor)?? still doing the same thing Good luck on these people listen to You 😡And like anything you buy from China that doesn't work you get stuck with trying to troubleshoot everything👎 shouldn't have to troubleshoot a bran new motor🤬👈
Looks like a great product and you clearly are experts. Please consider getting decent microphones and eliminating the echo chamber sound quality of your videos. Drop the background music as well; it adds nothing to the presentation and becomes annoying after a few minutes. I really wanted to see the app on the phone, and not in a medium-distance handheld shot that quickly went from one screen to another. I think the app is likely worth an entire dedicated video of its own. Thank you.
Fantastic review and comparison. I’d like to suggest a video where you over boost it to see how many watts it can realistically support and how the bike takes it. +detail the drive line components and wear for ref Again, great review
I like you guys and I'm considering my next conversion to be CYC, but I don't know where you're getting the price comparison numbers from. I paid $725 for a 750watt Bafang motor with 48volt battery and a nice color display. I didn't get another chainring but the shift sensor costs $23 on Amazon. Took a week to get it. Right now my kit from the same dealer is significantly cheaper than that.
Our comparison was with the BBSHD which is a few hundred dollars more than the BBS02. Of course, you can find cheaper. Please compare domestic suppliers that provide quality support.
Nice overview of this promising new development in the e-bike world. Can you do a ride video with a side by side comparison of unlocked motors used at the upper limits of their capacity? Can you discuss where the motors are manufactured and how their customer service is?
Hi Adam, this is Tom from Florida, your TSDZ2 customer from just 3 weeks ago. I hope you will do a comparison between the photon and the x1 gen 3 stealth that I am patiently waiting for. I'm a tadpole trike rider because of a balance issue. I want to do both street and off road work on my trikes. Thanks for this video.
It seems a great work on paper. Some things should improved for sell tons of these motors: 1-price 2-availability in europe 3-250w fixed output 4-battery kit, optimized for frames that have reduced space 5-all spares availability
Coming from someone interested in Buying a new emotor for conversion because of gas prices and for fun transportation I would like to see more real ppv riding for commuting and expressing what is amazing about it in real world Scenarios that make it stand out from other bikes motors , I understand when you tell us in a video and it's extremely helpful, but many people I show don't because our Society is a see it to believe it type and it's ashame
Excellent comparison. I'm about to convert my old hard tail mountain bike to an embike and this video helped me make up my mind between Bafang and CYC. CYC is the winner for me. I'm just disappointed that the photon is not on sale yet. Do you have any insight on when it will go on sale? Please let me know.
Very informative video! However I have a few suggestions: 1. Reshoot the video in a less echo-y space with a better microphone. 2. Show the installation of the motor on a bike frame in a medium shot and at a slower timelapse speed so that it is actually providing useful info for the viewer. 3. Show some POV video (with sound) of someone riding with the Proton on their bike - riding on pavement, then riding on a trail, so we can get a sense of what the motor actually sounds like and how it performs. 4. Ditch the "hand in your face" ending shot.
tongsheng tsdz2 is the only torque sensor retro fit i know of and now the cyc photon, to compare apples to apples could you do a review/comparison of them, i know the bafang motors are much more popular than tongsheng but cyc to bafang is comparing apples to oranges
I’ve got 2 Bafang BBSHD conversions. If you don’t or can’t run a 42 for clean chain line, it makes for a Frankenstein conversion. My trail work e-bike runs a 32 Lekkie chainring and I had to turn my 11-speed cassette into a 7-speed because chainline was too far outboard. Really curious about whether CYC fixed this. The Bafang BBSHD is bombproof though. I’ve run mine abusively hard for 4-years of backcountry trail work hauling a trailer of tools up mountains and the Bafang won’t quit.
what about drag when not using power, is this a feature or is battery necessary 100% of the time. Reason for asking, is compatible for touring, use only when needed?
I want to see a real world test, I'm particularly concerned about the heat compared to a bbsbd. Considering it weighs in at almost half the weight that is a lot of thermal mass missing. Seems like this motor is more comparable to the bbs02 or tsdz2 all around except how it can be set up to 40a
The Photon is more for those that want a refined riding experience like you get on high-end mountain ebikes but with more power. However, you are right, if you run the Photon continuously at BBSHD WOT levels, heat will start to build up. It does have a temperature sensor and automatically reduces power to prevent damage.
@@electrifybike I get that but it costs almost double as a tsdz2 with OSF, now the app is really cool and I wish I had it on my bbshd but with the OSF you can change almost all the settings the app can. Also not sure I would call it more refined when its a external controller though. What good is a 40a controller if the motor can only handle 15a and will quickly reduce power because of temps past that, not to mention the torque rating is lower than the bbs02. I want to see cyc come out with a bbshd like motor with these new features, if they priced it a little above the bbshd, had all these features (like the app, a 40a controller, torque sensing) and was comparable to the bbshd in power ratings and torque it would really kill the bbshd. I'm not sure how the photon is going to do when its in a weird spot, power and torque ratings lower than the bbs02 (power when you compare the cont rating). Torque sensing like the tsdz2 but also a almost 2x price tag. It has nice features that makes it more premium but that price though will make a lot of people question if that's worth it. Also weird they priced it exactly the same as the new stealth motor, which has way better specs, the same controller / app features, better mounting for mtb frames, and a motor than can handle the power better. Although of course it has the reduction exposed and will be louder (although cyc claims to have made the new motors way quieter.)
@@Bengy22 it's meant for mountain bikes. And people who ride pedal assist only. It has what all other mid drive kits can't offer. A perfect chainline. The power specs are more than enough for what it is designed for. The bbs motors and tongsheng are designed for comuter bikes. (Big offset chainring) This is for off road bikes with boost standard bb and rear hub. With wide ratio cassette and a small front sprocket. Im personally buying 2 asap.
@@bostondye3736 I mean my bbshd on my mountain bike offers a perfect chainline. Seems like the chainline issue is only an issue when going with these really small chainrings, 40t is the smallest on the bafang compared to the 34t so I will admit that is a good thing about the motor but I must ask who needs that small of a chainring. My bbshd with a 42t and a wide range cassette can climb literally anything I've tried even in 2nd, I never even use 1st as its way to over kill. Plus with a smaller chainring its easier to run out of cadence. I disagree that those motors are for commuter bikes, if so why are they so often found on mtb's then. Again my bbshd works fine (I can use every gear no issues) with a boost rear hub and wide ratio cassette. That's great you are buying 2 but I don't think its really super appealing to the mass market, if it was priced closer to a bbs02 or tsdz2 I think that would change.
@@Bengy22 ultimately it all depends on your use case and what works for you. What voltage are you running? I plan on running a small 6ah battery centrally located on the frame. I want as light weight and quiet as possible. This fits the bill. I had been saving for 2 high end emtb for me and my wife but this may actually save me a ton of money.
Thank you for the video. Curious about user serviceability. Lubrication requirements, availability of replaceable parts. Additionally, are there cable extension available?
I've put everything together last week but the display showed voltage as 0.0V then changed to "Please Check Your App or Peripherals" screen. I've emailed Electrify bike, they've responded to my by asking me to take a picture of the speed sensor and the magnet. And have not heard back since I've sent them a picture. Nothing at all. Ordered a 52V battery and the SW102 display. If you guys have seen this problem, please let me know. 🙏. I sure hope to fix this ASAP and see how it compares to the BBS02 or TongSheng
Great product comparison guys love your website one of best in this business. Now for the Question; with my 8 speed fat bike’s existing 48t front sprocket should I go with the 38 cyc option? Speed is not my primary concern. My application is steep complex single track mountain riding, so I want the max low speed use of torque possible. My thought is to buy all the chain rings to test. Lol Just wanna start somewhere. Ultimately the smallest from sprocket would really get the most out of low speed technical. I did see your upgraded 4set 8 Speed for consideration. My concern at 64 yo and 165 lbs that I may loose my just pedal mode low gear? To get me and my adventure loaded (95 lbs) bike and me home. Your input and experience please. Thanx for you attention and time. WJ
Do you know if a speed sensor has to go into an installation for it to opperate? Or can it be left out for a slimmer look? (What does it do? I’m guessing it is there to tell the display of the speed).
I love how clean the install looks. I'd mount this on my road bike just for pedal assist on the big hills. How much resistance is there when pedaling with the motor off? I notice resistance with the X1 Stealth Gen 1 and Gen 3. Not a lot, but certainly impactful if you are doing a century ride.
Is the mounting as secure as the TSDZ2? I can’t comment on the Bafang mounting, but for bikes with compatible frames the bolted connection in the back on the TSDZ2 makes it very stable. I like a lot of the features on the Photon though (splined bolt, extra ground clearance, phone app, chain line alignment and increased power compared to the TSDZ2). Torque sensing is mandatory for technical mountain biking, so that rules out Bafang for me. I have narrowed my next build to the TSDZ2B with OSF or the CYC Phantom.
I think I'm leaning towards the Photon vs the Stealth, but which one has the best ground clearance? I'm wanting to put it on my Commencal Clash. I have a really awesome DH trail behind my house, but at 2k elevation climbs every time, it gets pretty rough! I need long distance vs speed up the mtn.
What Battery are you using in this video ? Ordered my Photon from Electrify Bike , need a compact battery , as it going in a full suspension mountain bike , pedal assist only .
Yes, we will be selling these motors when they start to ship from the factory. Soon we hope. We are currently taking pre-orders for the Gen 3 motors that just came out. www.electrifybike.com/collections/cyc-motors
steel is ok it has hardness and durability you don't want aluminum it will wear very fast remember they are subjected to very high torque motor plus pedaling torque.
The Stealth is higher power with a more flexible design for mounting. It can rotate into triangles and clear flat down tubes. This Photon looks and feels the closest to a high-end factory produced ebike out of any aftermarket motor we've tested. It's very compact and quiet.
How many assist levels are there? Can you adjust the how much assist each level provides or is a fixed in place? I've been using the TSDZ2 with the open source firmware and I love that I have 10 levels of assist, each tuned to the way I want.
Would this be good for a commuter application? Can this be run as a single speed like a BBSHD can? Can this be programmed down to limit wattage for longevity? Very interesting piece of kit.
Yes, all of the above. These motors can spin 2 to 3 times faster than Bafang so like a Tesla that has no gearbox but has high power from 0 to 100+mph, these CYC motors make very good single-speed motors.
I'm looking for a Tandem mid=drive. Tandem chainrings are on the "Left" side not the right. Is there a solution for Tandem bikes? Thx so much! Barry :-)
They did the ground clearance test. He claims that with a 34t ring, the motor has more ground clearance than the ring itself, which is pretty impressive.
It will rotate in the bottom bracket further than the Bafang motors due to the extra space between the spindle shaft and the motor housing - 14mm vs 12mm.
What keeps the motor from rotating around the BB? I don't see any BB shell clamping (like on the Bafang) or separate chain stay bracket (like on the Tongsheng).
Like the Bafang and Tongsheng (without the ant-rotation bracket) motors, since the motor rotates forward under load, rotate it up against the downtube so it can rotate no further and then tighten it against the bottom bracket. If it loosens tighten it some more and use some blue loctite.
I would like to have fitted one of these to my Bosch gen4 frame. Motor failed out of warranty. Not going for another Bosch at 15.5mph limit. It is not possible to use this CYC motor due to completely different mounts. Anyone have any idea how this problem can be overcome?
@@markostlund Thanks for the details! I understand that the motor is rated for 36V to 52V batteries, so this is controlled within the app? i.e. one can potentially swap between say a 36V and 52V battery on this motor and just make sure that one specifies the correct V into the app? Thanks
Yes, you are right you can use any battery voltage from 36 to 52. Also, yes you can change from one voltage to another with a quick selection on the CYC smartphone app over BlueTooth.
What's the box with cables - a controller? I don't see it in the install. What about battery voltages and compatibility? Bafang's latest requires a dedicated Bafang battery. I hope CYC didn't go that direction.
What mount did you use for the battery pack? Is it the wolf tooth components b-rad? The reason I ask is that I'm using one for my battery and it's not as solid as I'd like it to be. I'm looking for a better solution.
It is the EBC Flex Mount. Super solid. It can use the water bottle mounts or it can be mounted anywhere on the frame with clamps that come with it. www.electrifybike.com/products/flex-mount-battery-bracket
Based on my experience of the last 10 with the Photon installed on an HP Scorpion trike, I would say "NO" to the throttle-only question. For my application , the motor temp rose very quickly with throttle only YMMV.. I stopped using the throttle after the first 2 rides, as the torque sensing is powerful and smooth so that it is not needed. Also, the motor temps stay a lot lower with the PAS only. I'm liking the CYC Photon a lot so far.
I got an email from cyc that it works with belt drive but I forgot how it works and didn't understand it much, you could email them to find out more on their website!
Also concerned about trying to read black text on a white background in bright sun conditions, on the larger display. Can the landscape mode 750c display be used instead?
Photon vs Stealth Gen 3. Can you you please compare these, as I am looking to convert a hard tail for commuting and trails. My understanding the Photon has 110Nm and Stealth 150 Nm. I am leaning towards the Photon, as I am coming from a 48v 250/500 hub motor. Thanks
Get the Photon, the Stealth is too much power for most people, not worth the extra weight. The Photon is very powerful for its size and the weight is low enough that you can keep the ride quality closer to a regular bike.
@@GutiSteve thanks for your help. Looks like it is the Photon for my conversion. The Photon is more powerful than the mainstream mid drives such as Bosch, and one to use if you want to build something equivalent. Have a great New Year.
There is a link in the description which goes to their webpage. One of their earlier comments on this video shows they expect delivery next week. I have mine on order, can't wait to get the ship notification!!
Why not allow the app to replace the display? Would love to have more handlebar real-estate and to be able to take the display with me when I must leave my bike unattended. Pls PM me if you can offer dealer pricing on this model.
Waiting fornit. I got a tsdz2 osf kit and after spending additional money on machining bb pressfit adaptors, rerouting cables, I realized that the motor is not compatible with my bike a Canyon Grail 6. The chain line is atrocious and I can only use the higher 5 gears 😂😂😂.
@@TradeLogicX2 European laws require that the motor is marked 250w nominell.If not it is NOT legal.There is no limit for peak power.Cyc should make motors marked 250w,there should be a huge marked for it.
At EUROBIKE web-site and at pictures from Photon at the CYC web-site i had read the mysterious words "PROTON" next to PHOTON. Will the "PROTON" be the next CYC product? I hope that the "PROTON" can be a more beefier and more powerfull (160NM version) but still very light version of the fantastic high quality build Photon design. So that a possible lightweight "PROTON" build can match and challenge the Bafang BBSHD in terms of torque-performance. Is my hope reasonable? Is somebody from CYC here to answer this question?
I'm mounting it on a recumbent trike and need an extension cable for the speed sensor to reach a wheel. My understanding is that these cables will be available soon but I've been without for a couple weeks.
Better order it 2 years in advance if you want one, been waiting almost 6 months. keep telling me 10 more days even says on their Website 10 days Shipping, getting ready to cancel my order ,Not a very reliable company.👎
@@Gungus-v1g I did finally Get it... No magnets for the brake controllers ,,no return cable for the controller to the battery ,No communication back on any help from the company.. typical Chinese Bullshit... Don't care how bad-ass this motor is, (Overprise Chinese crap) I won't be buying anymore from this company🖕
@@Gungus-v1g Sent me a picture of the cable off the controller like I'm supposed to know what to do with that🤷♂️ said they sent the magnets out ,,even though I told them they didn't .have not got back in touch with me👎
@@monkeyhaters9258 That's really disappointing to hear. as I was considering this motor myself but from what I've heard from you and others is that their customer service is terrible. Hope something gets resolved in your case.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Looks like just what we have been waiting for. A beefed up TSDZ form factor, torque sensing, with a perfect chainline out of the box. Tons of upside.
YOU 2 ARE A GREAT TEAM KEEP IT GOING I CHOSE CYC BECAUSE OF THIS VIDEO
Fantastic. Great design. Torque sensing pedal assist is the ultimate ebike feeling. I compare it to driving a stick shift vehicle, and PAS is like driving an automatic.
Just watched both CYC videos. Holy cow. Great production! Hope you can keep making more product videos.
This Photon has such a cool look to it, well done to the designers. It looks like a premium product and just what I have been waiting for. I will be buying one as soon as they are available 👍🏼 thanks guys.
Available now. Our first shipment has left the factory.
Sold! Nice presentation gentlemen. Going to be a pleasure doing business with you. 👍👍
Good to see some bafang competition and I'm sure the price will improve fairly quickly. In the past I considered CYC to be in more of an off-road electric motor bike category but this should appeal to commuters and rec riders as well. I'll definitely be watching to see how durable it will be and hope they're not sacrificing dependability for weight and size savings. We already know the BBSHD and BBSO2 are bullet proof.
Confidence is high. These come with a 2 year warranty. 😉
@@electrifybikeYou still in business?
If you want a CYC motor you better order it now! if you want to be riding it by next summer ,and good luck with customer service ...they suck..!!😖
@@electrifybike It's been 7 months now I've rode the bike a mile with a new controller they sent me🥴 Then the bike started doing the same thing error code says( Torque sensor)?? still doing the same thing Good luck on these people listen to You 😡And like anything you buy from China that doesn't work you get stuck with trying to troubleshoot everything👎 shouldn't have to troubleshoot a bran new motor🤬👈
I'm hyped for this motor.
Looks like a great product and you clearly are experts. Please consider getting decent microphones and eliminating the echo chamber sound quality of your videos. Drop the background music as well; it adds nothing to the presentation and becomes annoying after a few minutes. I really wanted to see the app on the phone, and not in a medium-distance handheld shot that quickly went from one screen to another. I think the app is likely worth an entire dedicated video of its own. Thank you.
Thank you for a very informative video, you two are a great team. ...richard
We are enjoying the 2 tongsheng torque sensing kits from you - these cyc kits look even better although for greenway the tsdz seem more than adequate.
Fantastic review and comparison. I’d like to suggest a video where you over boost it to see how many watts it can realistically support and how the bike takes it. +detail the drive line components and wear for ref
Again, great review
I love the echo of this video.
what batteries are those, and what distance you can get relative to power output?
Great explanatory video. Thanks!
I like you guys and I'm considering my next conversion to be CYC, but I don't know where you're getting the price comparison numbers from. I paid $725 for a 750watt Bafang motor with 48volt battery and a nice color display. I didn't get another chainring but the shift sensor costs $23 on Amazon. Took a week to get it. Right now my kit from the same dealer is significantly cheaper than that.
Our comparison was with the BBSHD which is a few hundred dollars more than the BBS02. Of course, you can find cheaper. Please compare domestic suppliers that provide quality support.
Nice overview of this promising new development in the e-bike world. Can you do a ride video with a side by side comparison of unlocked motors used at the upper limits of their capacity? Can you discuss where the motors are manufactured and how their customer service is?
Hi Adam, this is Tom from Florida, your TSDZ2 customer from just 3 weeks ago. I hope you will do a comparison between the photon and the x1 gen 3 stealth that I am patiently waiting for. I'm a tadpole trike rider because of a balance issue. I want to do both street and off road work on my trikes. Thanks for this video.
I would also like to know the differences of power levels obtainable and torque peaks between the pro, Stealth and photon
Wow well done this looks like a winner.
It seems a great work on paper. Some things should improved for sell tons of these motors:
1-price
2-availability in europe
3-250w fixed output
4-battery kit, optimized for frames that have reduced space
5-all spares availability
We have your entire list covered for North American customers. Try fasterbikes.eu. They do a great job in Europe.
Sold
BBSHD all the way you can programme it !
Coming from someone interested in Buying a new emotor for conversion because of gas prices and for fun transportation I would like to see more real ppv riding for commuting and expressing what is amazing about it in real world Scenarios that make it stand out from other bikes motors , I understand when you tell us in a video and it's extremely helpful, but many people I show don't because our Society is a see it to believe it type and it's ashame
Very professional video.
cool and informative content thank you guys for your work, i bet you're having a blast doing these videos!
Torque sensor 👍
so professional review, thanks,
Excellent comparison. I'm about to convert my old hard tail mountain bike to an embike and this video helped me make up my mind between Bafang and CYC. CYC is the winner for me. I'm just disappointed that the photon is not on sale yet.
Do you have any insight on when it will go on sale? Please let me know.
Our first shipment is on the way. We will have them next week. 🙂
Very informative video! However I have a few suggestions: 1. Reshoot the video in a less echo-y space with a better microphone. 2. Show the installation of the motor on a bike frame in a medium shot and at a slower timelapse speed so that it is actually providing useful info for the viewer. 3. Show some POV video (with sound) of someone riding with the Proton on their bike - riding on pavement, then riding on a trail, so we can get a sense of what the motor actually sounds like and how it performs. 4. Ditch the "hand in your face" ending shot.
tongsheng tsdz2 is the only torque sensor retro fit i know of and now the cyc photon, to compare apples to apples could you do a review/comparison of them, i know the bafang motors are much more popular than tongsheng but cyc to bafang is comparing apples to oranges
Great idea. We will put that on the list.
I’ve got 2 Bafang BBSHD conversions. If you don’t or can’t run a 42 for clean chain line, it makes for a Frankenstein conversion. My trail work e-bike runs a 32 Lekkie chainring and I had to turn my 11-speed cassette into a 7-speed because chainline was too far outboard. Really curious about whether CYC fixed this. The Bafang BBSHD is bombproof though. I’ve run mine abusively hard for 4-years of backcountry trail work hauling a trailer of tools up mountains and the Bafang won’t quit.
The Photon has a perfect chainline down to 34T. The Stealth and Pro motors have it down to 30T (BCD104 aftermarket).
The Photon looks awesome. Do you know if it will be easier to find alternative length cranks than for the Bafang?
Most high-end mid-drive motors use ISIS splined cranks and can be used on CYC motors.
what about drag when not using power, is this a feature or is battery necessary 100% of the time. Reason for asking, is compatible for touring, use only when needed?
I want to see a real world test, I'm particularly concerned about the heat compared to a bbsbd. Considering it weighs in at almost half the weight that is a lot of thermal mass missing. Seems like this motor is more comparable to the bbs02 or tsdz2 all around except how it can be set up to 40a
The Photon is more for those that want a refined riding experience like you get on high-end mountain ebikes but with more power. However, you are right, if you run the Photon continuously at BBSHD WOT levels, heat will start to build up. It does have a temperature sensor and automatically reduces power to prevent damage.
@@electrifybike I get that but it costs almost double as a tsdz2 with OSF, now the app is really cool and I wish I had it on my bbshd but with the OSF you can change almost all the settings the app can. Also not sure I would call it more refined when its a external controller though. What good is a 40a controller if the motor can only handle 15a and will quickly reduce power because of temps past that, not to mention the torque rating is lower than the bbs02. I want to see cyc come out with a bbshd like motor with these new features, if they priced it a little above the bbshd, had all these features (like the app, a 40a controller, torque sensing) and was comparable to the bbshd in power ratings and torque it would really kill the bbshd. I'm not sure how the photon is going to do when its in a weird spot, power and torque ratings lower than the bbs02 (power when you compare the cont rating). Torque sensing like the tsdz2 but also a almost 2x price tag. It has nice features that makes it more premium but that price though will make a lot of people question if that's worth it. Also weird they priced it exactly the same as the new stealth motor, which has way better specs, the same controller / app features, better mounting for mtb frames, and a motor than can handle the power better. Although of course it has the reduction exposed and will be louder (although cyc claims to have made the new motors way quieter.)
@@Bengy22 it's meant for mountain bikes. And people who ride pedal assist only. It has what all other mid drive kits can't offer. A perfect chainline. The power specs are more than enough for what it is designed for. The bbs motors and tongsheng are designed for comuter bikes. (Big offset chainring) This is for off road bikes with boost standard bb and rear hub. With wide ratio cassette and a small front sprocket. Im personally buying 2 asap.
@@bostondye3736 I mean my bbshd on my mountain bike offers a perfect chainline. Seems like the chainline issue is only an issue when going with these really small chainrings, 40t is the smallest on the bafang compared to the 34t so I will admit that is a good thing about the motor but I must ask who needs that small of a chainring. My bbshd with a 42t and a wide range cassette can climb literally anything I've tried even in 2nd, I never even use 1st as its way to over kill. Plus with a smaller chainring its easier to run out of cadence. I disagree that those motors are for commuter bikes, if so why are they so often found on mtb's then. Again my bbshd works fine (I can use every gear no issues) with a boost rear hub and wide ratio cassette. That's great you are buying 2 but I don't think its really super appealing to the mass market, if it was priced closer to a bbs02 or tsdz2 I think that would change.
@@Bengy22 ultimately it all depends on your use case and what works for you. What voltage are you running? I plan on running a small 6ah battery centrally located on the frame. I want as light weight and quiet as possible. This fits the bill. I had been saving for 2 high end emtb for me and my wife but this may actually save me a ton of money.
What are those batteries and capacity 🔋 ? They seems right size for a small bike 🚴
Thank you for the video. Curious about user serviceability. Lubrication requirements, availability of replaceable parts. Additionally, are there cable extension available?
We will have complete spare parts after initial shipments. It is user serviceable. We have cable extensions.
Very informative! Kudos!
Still waiting for CYC to officially release this thing
Are the CYC motors pedal assist only?
I've put everything together last week but the display showed voltage as 0.0V then changed to "Please Check Your App or Peripherals" screen. I've emailed Electrify bike, they've responded to my by asking me to take a picture of the speed sensor and the magnet. And have not heard back since I've sent them a picture. Nothing at all. Ordered a 52V battery and the SW102 display. If you guys have seen this problem, please let me know. 🙏. I sure hope to fix this ASAP and see how it compares to the BBS02 or TongSheng
Great product comparison guys love your website one of best in this business.
Now for the Question; with my 8 speed fat bike’s existing 48t front sprocket should I go with the 38 cyc option? Speed is not my primary concern. My application is steep complex single track mountain riding, so I want the max low speed use of torque possible. My thought is to buy all the chain rings to test. Lol Just wanna start somewhere. Ultimately the smallest from sprocket would really get the most out of low speed technical.
I did see your upgraded 4set 8 Speed for consideration.
My concern at 64 yo and 165 lbs that I may loose my just pedal mode low gear? To get me and my adventure loaded (95 lbs) bike and me home.
Your input and experience please.
Thanx for you attention and time. WJ
What batteries do you guys like and which one is recommended for the photon kit. Also battery prices?
Why don't they mention the speed controller? Where does it get mounted? How much does it weigh?
By speed controller do you mean speed sensor, throttle, motor controller, or display? The weight is given in the video - 7lbs 15oz.
How to know if the power is low
Do you know if a speed sensor has to go into an installation for it to opperate? Or can it be left out for a slimmer look? (What does it do? I’m guessing it is there to tell the display of the speed).
The speed sensor is required but is mostly hidden by the chain stay.
I love how clean the install looks. I'd mount this on my road bike just for pedal assist on the big hills. How much resistance is there when pedaling with the motor off? I notice resistance with the X1 Stealth Gen 1 and Gen 3. Not a lot, but certainly impactful if you are doing a century ride.
Hola, tengo una Trek supercaliber en Carbono, tendría algún problema??
Is the mounting as secure as the TSDZ2? I can’t comment on the Bafang mounting, but for bikes with compatible frames the bolted connection in the back on the TSDZ2 makes it very stable. I like a lot of the features on the Photon though (splined bolt, extra ground clearance, phone app, chain line alignment and increased power compared to the TSDZ2). Torque sensing is mandatory for technical mountain biking, so that rules out Bafang for me. I have narrowed my next build to the TSDZ2B with OSF or the CYC Phantom.
I think I'm leaning towards the Photon vs the Stealth, but which one has the best ground clearance? I'm wanting to put it on my Commencal Clash. I have a really awesome DH trail behind my house, but at 2k elevation climbs every time, it gets pretty rough! I need long distance vs speed up the mtn.
You didn’t compare performance?
What Battery are you using in this video ? Ordered my Photon from Electrify Bike , need a compact battery , as it going in a full suspension mountain bike , pedal assist only .
Does it require an external controller though? I see a controller sitting on your bench but not mounted on the finished bike?
NO, the controller is in the motor
Very interesting. I’m pretty close to seeing another build in my future. Thank you much for this. May I assume that you do sell these motors.
Yes, we will be selling these motors when they start to ship from the factory. Soon we hope. We are currently taking pre-orders for the Gen 3 motors that just came out. www.electrifybike.com/collections/cyc-motors
What is the material of the 34, 38, 50 teeth chainrings? Aluminium? Steel? Booth options possible?
steel is ok it has hardness and durability you don't want aluminum it will wear very fast remember they are subjected to very high torque motor plus pedaling torque.
7075 T6 CNC Aluminum. Super strong, wear resistant, and high quality.
@@electrifybike Thanks.
Does anyone know how many miles these batteries or these converters give?
Where can I order the motor? I am in Korea
When will this be available for purchase?
We are hoping for late November.
@@electrifybike I'll take 2 asap
The Photon weight is with 38 teeth chainring. Right? Wich spindle length you installed on the Photon, that you put on the scale?
What’s the difference between this and the stealth?
The Stealth is higher power with a more flexible design for mounting. It can rotate into triangles and clear flat down tubes. This Photon looks and feels the closest to a high-end factory produced ebike out of any aftermarket motor we've tested. It's very compact and quiet.
How many assist levels are there? Can you adjust the how much assist each level provides or is a fixed in place? I've been using the TSDZ2 with the open source firmware and I love that I have 10 levels of assist, each tuned to the way I want.
Would this be good for a commuter application? Can this be run as a single speed like a BBSHD can? Can this be programmed down to limit wattage for longevity?
Very interesting piece of kit.
Yes, all of the above. These motors can spin 2 to 3 times faster than Bafang so like a Tesla that has no gearbox but has high power from 0 to 100+mph, these CYC motors make very good single-speed motors.
@@electrifybike are you saying the photons rpms are at least 240 rpms?
I'm looking for a Tandem mid=drive. Tandem chainrings are on the "Left" side not the right. Is there a solution for Tandem bikes? Thx so much! Barry :-)
Can you tilt it to get better ground clearance?
They did the ground clearance test. He claims that with a 34t ring, the motor has more ground clearance than the ring itself, which is pretty impressive.
It will rotate in the bottom bracket further than the Bafang motors due to the extra space between the spindle shaft and the motor housing - 14mm vs 12mm.
What keeps the motor from rotating around the BB? I don't see any BB shell clamping (like on the Bafang) or separate chain stay bracket (like on the Tongsheng).
Like the Bafang and Tongsheng (without the ant-rotation bracket) motors, since the motor rotates forward under load, rotate it up against the downtube so it can rotate no further and then tighten it against the bottom bracket. If it loosens tighten it some more and use some blue loctite.
I would like to have fitted one of these to my Bosch gen4 frame. Motor failed out of warranty. Not going for another Bosch at 15.5mph limit. It is not possible to use this CYC motor due to completely different mounts. Anyone have any idea how this problem can be overcome?
Is this new chainring desighn the only option, or will be there an option with a common 104 BCD design, where you can choose aftermarked chainrings?
Yeah you would need it with a belt drive for sure.
@@TheAgentAssassin Yes, for sure belt drive option would be the "cherry on the cake". CYC should definitely work on it.
Cool vid, lots of info! Can I ask what is the specs of the battery used in the install in the video? Thanks
It's pretty sweet. The Electrify Bike Mini-max is 52v 50 amps, 10ah built with 14S2P Samsung 21700 50S cells.
@@markostlund Thanks for the details! I understand that the motor is rated for 36V to 52V batteries, so this is controlled within the app? i.e. one can potentially swap between say a 36V and 52V battery on this motor and just make sure that one specifies the correct V into the app? Thanks
@@Crispyground you got it! You can change on the fly and just update it in the app.
You did'nt discuss the voltage range. I recall it's 36-52 volts. Could one swap different voltage batteries with the same unit?
Yes, you are right you can use any battery voltage from 36 to 52. Also, yes you can change from one voltage to another with a quick selection on the CYC smartphone app over BlueTooth.
Nice design. How about some power comparisons?
What's the box with cables - a controller? I don't see it in the install. What about battery voltages and compatibility? Bafang's latest requires a dedicated Bafang battery. I hope CYC didn't go that direction.
Also, what's the controller weigh - since it's built into Bafang's motors?
What is that cute battery pack?
That is the 21700 cell 50 Amp Mini-Max. ruclips.net/video/ssrnkJcSRCc/видео.html
I wish this would have been released 6 months ago I would have gotten this instead of my bbshd 😢
Join the rest of us that have learned the n+1 principle of bike ownership. n is the number of bikes you own and 1 is the one you are looking to buy. 😉
Is it true that you do not need brake or shifter motor cut offs for the Photon?
Yes, with torque sensing, both are not necessary.
Very cool motor.i am very whant this motor.but i live in Ukraine and ....
Where is the controller, in the battery pack?
The X6P VESP controller is in the motor housing, like other motors of this type.
What is claimed torque output ?
Are spares going to be readily available ie chainrings controllers etc ? If yes approx cost of these thanks.
Torque is supposedly 110nm
What’s the power rating on this and max voltage ? Thx
What mount did you use for the battery pack? Is it the wolf tooth components b-rad? The reason I ask is that I'm using one for my battery and it's not as solid as I'd like it to be. I'm looking for a better solution.
It is the EBC Flex Mount. Super solid. It can use the water bottle mounts or it can be mounted anywhere on the frame with clamps that come with it. www.electrifybike.com/products/flex-mount-battery-bracket
Can thsi be set up to reset to a speed limit after being shut off?
In a traffic stop situation for example....
You can quickly change from street (legal) and race (full-power) modes from the display or the app. Limits on both can be programmed in the app.
Can I run this motor in a throttle only mode? or is pedal assist always enabled?
The throttle works whether you are pedaling our not.
Based on my experience of the last 10 with the Photon installed on an HP Scorpion trike, I would say "NO" to the throttle-only question. For my application , the motor temp rose very quickly with throttle only YMMV.. I stopped using the throttle after the first 2 rides, as the torque sensing is powerful and smooth so that it is not needed. Also, the motor temps stay a lot lower with the PAS only. I'm liking the CYC Photon a lot so far.
Is there a belt drive config?
I got an email from cyc that it works with belt drive but I forgot how it works and didn't understand it much, you could email them to find out more on their website!
Square Taper is Strongest 💪
What size battery is that?
Have they run into problems and shut down production? I’ve literally seen no real ride reviews and on CYC’s Website it still says coming soon?
You will see lots of ride reviews very soon. They are shipping now.
Worst part isnt mentioned is the price ,its double of the price of the Bafang,Ill go with Bafang
Also concerned about trying to read black text on a white background in bright sun conditions, on the larger display. Can the landscape mode 750c display be used instead?
Yes, the CYC versions of the APT 750C and 500C displays both work with the new controller.
What is the Q factor for this motor?
The Q-factor varies with the different bottom bracket widths and spindle lengths. Unlike the Bafang, the Q-factor is centered on the Photon.
Photon vs Stealth Gen 3. Can you you please compare these, as I am looking to convert a hard tail for commuting and trails. My understanding the Photon has 110Nm and Stealth 150 Nm. I am leaning towards the Photon, as I am coming from a 48v 250/500 hub motor. Thanks
Get the Photon, the Stealth is too much power for most people, not worth the extra weight. The Photon is very powerful for its size and the weight is low enough that you can keep the ride quality closer to a regular bike.
@@GutiSteve thanks for your help. Looks like it is the Photon for my conversion. The Photon is more powerful than the mainstream mid drives such as Bosch, and one to use if you want to build something equivalent. Have a great New Year.
Can Photon fit over ISCG tabs? Looks like it might.
No, but the Stealth and Pro motors can. A little grinding is needed for Photon if you have an alloy frame.
What kind of torque does the 1000w one produce? Thans
The Photon can deliver 110Nm.
@@electrifybike Many thanks... 🙏
Needed more light and "white T shirts". Too hard to see the motor/gears with the backgrounds.
Want to order? Send link please.
There is a link in the description which goes to their webpage. One of their earlier comments on this video shows they expect delivery next week. I have mine on order, can't wait to get the ship notification!!
Why not allow the app to replace the display? Would love to have more handlebar real-estate and to be able to take the display with me when I must leave my bike unattended.
Pls PM me if you can offer dealer pricing on this model.
There is a hack to use the app without a display. Write us for info.
To apply to become a dealer go here: www.electrifybike.com/apps/wpdapp
@@electrifybike laid up away from shop a few weeks. Will be getting back to you when I no longer need pain med's.
Heat management on hill climbs is still a major issue for the Photon.
Waiting fornit. I got a tsdz2 osf kit and after spending additional money on machining bb pressfit adaptors, rerouting cables, I realized that the motor is not compatible with my bike a Canyon Grail 6. The chain line is atrocious and I can only use the higher 5 gears 😂😂😂.
is there a 48v 250w version ?
how is the internal gear ratio and the max power output?
You can limit the power to 250 watt on app, so you can use it legal in Europe
@@TradeLogicX2 European laws require that the motor is marked 250w nominell.If not it is NOT legal.There is no limit for peak power.Cyc should make motors marked 250w,there should be a huge marked for it.
@@wrosslandwr8032 they are marked for 250, if I recall.
@@wrosslandwr8032 there is no law for that.
@@TradeLogicX2 Yes there is,check it out
Whats the q-factor?
Unlike the Bafang and Tongsheng motors, the q-factor is centered and symmetrical. The actual number varies with the bottom bracket width.
So whats the minimum with a regular 73mm BB?
At EUROBIKE web-site and at pictures from Photon at the CYC web-site i had read the mysterious words "PROTON" next to PHOTON. Will the "PROTON" be the next CYC product? I hope that the "PROTON" can be a more beefier and more powerfull (160NM version) but still very light version of the fantastic high quality build Photon design. So that a possible lightweight "PROTON" build can match and challenge the Bafang BBSHD in terms of torque-performance. Is my hope reasonable? Is somebody from CYC here to answer this question?
Where did you see the word Proton on their website?
This is true. It will come out early 2023.
@@electrifybike Photon still planned for November 2022?
@@electrifybike Thanks, good news, sounds promising. Hope both is true, PROTON as "new CYC product" and a "real BBSHD ki... challenger".
What they didn't say was all the extra costs when you order the motor.
For a basic install everything is included in the motor kit. There are a few extras available if you need or want them.
I'm mounting it on a recumbent trike and need an extension cable for the speed sensor to reach a wheel. My understanding is that these cables will be available soon but I've been without for a couple weeks.
Better order it 2 years in advance if you want one, been waiting almost 6 months. keep telling me 10 more days even says on their Website 10 days Shipping, getting ready to cancel my order ,Not a very reliable company.👎
Have you got it yet?
@@Gungus-v1g I did finally Get it... No magnets for the brake controllers ,,no return cable for the controller to the battery ,No communication back on any help from the company.. typical Chinese Bullshit... Don't care how bad-ass this motor is, (Overprise Chinese crap) I won't be buying anymore from this company🖕
@@Gungus-v1g Sent me a picture of the cable off the controller like I'm supposed to know what to do with that🤷♂️ said they sent the magnets out ,,even though I told them they didn't .have not got back in touch with me👎
@@monkeyhaters9258 That's really disappointing to hear. as I was considering this motor myself but from what I've heard from you and others is that their customer service is terrible. Hope something gets resolved in your case.
@@Gungus-v1g I tell you my real comment but they erased it