How to Play Conga Drums: Basic Quinto Patterns!

Поделиться
HTML-код
  • Опубликовано: 9 фев 2025
  • The quinto (literally fifth in Spanish) is the smallest and highest pitched type of conga drum. It is used as the lead drum in Cuban rumba styles such as guaguancó, yambú, columbia and guarapachangueo, and it is also present in congas de comparsa. Quinto phrases are played in both triple-pulse (12/8, 6/8) and duple-pulse (4/4, 2/2) structures.
    During the verses of the song the quinto is capable of sublime creativity, while musically subordinate to the lead vocalist. There are natural pauses in the cadence of the verses, typically one or two measures in length, where the quinto can play succinct phrases in the “holes” left by the singer. During the verses the quinto does not demonstrate technical virtuosity so much as taste and restraint.
    The quinto plays within two main rhythmic modes, corresponding to the two main modes of rumba dancing - the lock mode & cross mode.
    Edgardo further breaks down quinto patterns into "rides".
    Support Edgardo Cambon directly by sending a donation to:
    Venmo | venmo.com/Edga...
    PayPal | edgardocambon@gmail.com
    Visit Edgardo's website and RUclips channel:
    www.musicandel...
    / eddysuconga
    Subscribe to our RUclips Channel
    bit.ly/dancepapi
    Conga Video Lesson # 11
    FOLLOW US
    Facebook: / dancepapi
    Instagram: / teamdancepapi
    Twitter: / dancepapi
    Website: dancepapi.com
    #dancepapi

Комментарии • 133

  • @dancepapi
    @dancepapi  4 года назад +7

    Schedule a private online conga lesson with Edgardo by visiting: www.musicandela.com/latin-percussion-private-lessons

  • @musictrainingonline
    @musictrainingonline 4 года назад +15

    This must be incredibly helpful to conga players that already know how to play conga and cuban music very well. You are a master of the style and musical genre. What is most helpful to me as a keyboard player is to learn more about how you guys think about rhythm, pattern, improvisation, clave, and how it all interfaces. Beautiful!

  • @spunkito3
    @spunkito3 Год назад +2

    Awesome feel

  • @melfuentes4184
    @melfuentes4184 Год назад +3

    Thanks for keeping this alive..

  • @nanigo
    @nanigo 4 года назад +8

    You definitely have a talent for teaching. I like that you show the downbeat and where the licks landed against the downbeat which made it easier to understand. This is a very comprehensive lesson on quinto playing, thank you, Edgardo!

  • @kingcobra7565
    @kingcobra7565 Год назад +2

    good explanation. thanks

  • @Floridafisherman5000
    @Floridafisherman5000 2 года назад +4

    Still watching your videos and practicing with them in 2022!! You are the best!!! Never gets old and I learn something new each time I watch your videos!! Stay well!!

    • @Eddysuconga
      @Eddysuconga 2 года назад +1

      Muchas gracias. Thank you! I will try to continue uploading more, I have been very slow, due to the regular teaching and performing schedule coming back to normal. In short I am very busy!

    • @Floridafisherman5000
      @Floridafisherman5000 2 года назад

      @@Eddysuconga I am happy that you are getting busy with gigs again!!! Back to normal! :)

  • @ruthd3918
    @ruthd3918 Год назад +3

    Thanks to you I'm inspired, can't do it yet but that's the point, keep pushing past your limits 👊🏻

  • @norm1158
    @norm1158 4 года назад +4

    A good approach to understanding the quinto patterns. Great teaching method. Less is more.

  • @lindasmith6668
    @lindasmith6668 Год назад +2

    Thank you so much this helped me a lot😊

  • @pasqualinodemaio9745
    @pasqualinodemaio9745 3 месяца назад +2

    Che grande aiuto...grande...
    Spiegato benissimo❤

  • @Web4Panama
    @Web4Panama Год назад +3

    This is a very helpful lesson. Cheers. I will be revisiting this lesson.

  • @danieledlefsen940
    @danieledlefsen940 Год назад +3

    Excellent instructions!

  • @joeykarateka
    @joeykarateka 6 месяцев назад +1

    Maestro I come back to this video often. Quintear es difícil. I se nota que te divertiste haciendo este video! Es José Rivera

  • @keithcollier5271
    @keithcollier5271 3 года назад +3

    Too many things but im filling the channel in a boat only to come back to shore awesome

  •  4 года назад +3

    Thanks Edgardo, another comprehensive lesson. The second half was just like the sounds you would hear floating out of Callejon Hamel on a Sunday afternoon! Got to love the CPs - and you have the original skin, too! Take care, GD

  • @paulb1383
    @paulb1383 3 года назад +3

    This was great. In the past I could never seem to do this, but I have around a lot of Cuban drum circles and this is spot on!

  • @budokaiboy
    @budokaiboy 4 года назад +2

    I just purchased a Tumba and Conga (LP Matador) because after watching your videos for a few weeks, you look like you're having so much fun. I'm going to be watching all of your Conga videos. I already bought some Bongos after watching your Bongo videos. You are an excellent teacher. I see that you do Skype lessons. I'll most likely be taking one at some point in the next few weeks. Thank you

    • @dancepapi
      @dancepapi  4 года назад

      We're so happy to hear!

    • @revkelly58
      @revkelly58 Год назад

      It’s been three yrs since this comment. How is it going playing the congas and bongos?

    • @budokaiboy
      @budokaiboy Год назад

      @@revkelly58 I play my drum set for an hour a day, but I haven't been putting any time into my conga practice. I literally have them in my living room.

  • @DavidGarcia-ov3bg
    @DavidGarcia-ov3bg 11 месяцев назад +2

    golpes bien definidos, like it like that, old school

  • @charlespurcell2018
    @charlespurcell2018 3 года назад +3

    A technique that sticks. Makes sense. I really thank you for gift.

  • @luisatpr
    @luisatpr Год назад +1

    Gracias por explicar con los 4 tiempos. Mis respetos y admiración...Gracias!

  • @rubencasarez17
    @rubencasarez17 2 года назад +2

    Very good tutorial my Brother.

  • @powerbylightfutureisnow1579
    @powerbylightfutureisnow1579 2 года назад +2

    Just amazing how much you love you put into the congas. Yes ...soon i want to /will take lessons from you!!!

  • @xconguero
    @xconguero 11 месяцев назад +1

    You are a perfect teacher, muchas gracias Edgardo, I will practice your points of quinto 👍🕺🏼

  • @daveargall3454
    @daveargall3454 4 года назад +4

    I love the vocals and quinto together! This video is fuel for inspiration!

  • @anonagain
    @anonagain 4 года назад +5

    Another thorough, clear lesson - thanks Edgardo !

  • @joeykarateka
    @joeykarateka 3 года назад +2

    An awesome teacher. If you think the videos are good, go for the private lessons. My playing improved dramatically in a short period of time, more so than I ever thought it would. Well worth it.

  • @DavidmarcM
    @DavidmarcM Год назад +2

    Gracias Edgardo, le tue lezioni sono molto chiare, complimenti!!

  • @siriomsingh4739
    @siriomsingh4739 Год назад +1

    Wonderful teacher I learn so much from you. I have a cp Quinto and I love it

  • @powerbylightfutureisnow1579
    @powerbylightfutureisnow1579 3 года назад +2

    So good.......my favorite conga lines/ brilliant

  • @McboyLopez
    @McboyLopez 3 года назад +2

    Great lesson and teacher!

  • @tiopercuta
    @tiopercuta 4 года назад +3

    Muy clarito como siempre, y con sabor oriental! Grande Edgardo!!

  • @pasqualinodemaio9745
    @pasqualinodemaio9745 9 месяцев назад +1

    Grazie x questo maestro❤

  • @MrDudley175
    @MrDudley175 3 года назад +2

    Just getting into the conga. You make it easy to pickup, Thank u

  • @AdrianD2010
    @AdrianD2010 4 года назад +3

    Gracias profe. Una de las mejores explicaciones del quinteo

  • @ortoaxis
    @ortoaxis 4 года назад +4

    eres de los mejores que lo ha explicado, concepto genuino, sonido maestro. gracias.

    • @Eddysuconga
      @Eddysuconga 4 года назад

      Muchas gracias amigo. Bendiciones y mucho cuidado en la "Rumba". Sabrosura!

  • @nicotorres8463
    @nicotorres8463 4 года назад +1

    Thank you so much Edgardo you helped me play the drums. Have a blessed day

  • @evangelcassidy3988
    @evangelcassidy3988 8 месяцев назад +2

    Fantástico máster! Gracias Papi! A practicar! Y como afinar las congas con la llave es algo que no termino de aprender del todo! Hay diferentes notas a las cuales se puede ajustar?

  • @eduardogreen5697
    @eduardogreen5697 Год назад +1

    muy didactico y util,tuve el gusto de compartir contigo una rumba ,cuando tocó Elemi,abrazo desde argentina

  • @YaoEspirito
    @YaoEspirito 4 года назад +2

    I love that: a drum doesn't have to be fancy or expensive. I love to see a proper master cherishing a CP drum, and playing it so sweetly!
    Seems like some drummers MUST have a Giovanni signature set, but Patato, Adonis, Tata, and so many Cuban drummers bring out the beautiful sounds from raggedy drums. Cheers

    • @revkelly58
      @revkelly58 Год назад +2

      There is truth is what you say. A good payer can make a poor drum sound great. A lesser player can take the most expensive drum and it sounds bad. Nothing wrong with owning top of the line drums, but if you can’t play them what good are they? I saw this last week-end, a drum with a mis-mounted head. The student was having serious problems getting the sound of his stroke right, the instructor got it every time. No one mentioned that the head was messed up.

  • @sculptedbyart
    @sculptedbyart 4 года назад +3

    WOW! THANKS MAESTRO!!! IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS!!!

    • @dancepapi
      @dancepapi  4 года назад

      We're happy to hear! Happy Drumming!

  • @matthodgeperc01
    @matthodgeperc01 4 года назад +2

    Love your videos Edgardo. Keep them coming!!

  • @426426288
    @426426288 4 года назад +1

    Gracias. Yo soy guitarrista y tú me estás ayudando por este medio. Éxitos y salud!

  • @claudiopaulteam
    @claudiopaulteam 4 года назад +2

    Hola Edgardo!! Encontré tu canal durante la cuarentena obligatoria, soy Uruguayo pero vivo en Argentina. No se hablar inglés igualmente entiendo los ritmos, muchas gracias muy bueno el canal vo!! :) igual que el piano que tiene de fondo!! Y cuando pueda algún tutorial en español! 🥳🥳🥳 saludos!!

  • @albertccano
    @albertccano 4 года назад +1

    Edgardo you know what your doing, your are the real deal buddy

  • @derbeno1152
    @derbeno1152 4 года назад +1

    Bravo! Many thanks for going through the time and effort

  • @Edgardo-vc5mj
    @Edgardo-vc5mj 4 года назад +2

    Me encantó tu música e inspiración en el quinto!!! Gracias

  • @APercussionLife
    @APercussionLife 4 года назад +3

    Edgardo is the best!!! Thank you for this!

    • @YaoEspirito
      @YaoEspirito 3 года назад

      Both of you; best instruction on RUclips.

  • @davidargall1719
    @davidargall1719 9 месяцев назад +1

    Love it!

  • @evangelcassidy3988
    @evangelcassidy3988 8 месяцев назад +2

    Y usted canta muy bien! Me recuerda a Celeste Mendoza !

  • @robertonavarro9301
    @robertonavarro9301 2 года назад +2

    well done 🔥🔥🔥

  • @philippefouchard543
    @philippefouchard543 4 года назад +1

    Passionnant ! Grand merci Edgardo.

  • @bvs5164
    @bvs5164 2 года назад +1

    Thank you for your channel. Advise please on conga purchases, I have a 11 3/4 conga, love it. For overall playing styles, which size drum is next to add. Tumba, quinto?

  • @Swagman1957
    @Swagman1957 4 года назад +1

    So thankful, amazed and inspired 😇

  • @elnetini
    @elnetini 4 года назад +2

    Excelente. Poco a poco vamos aprendiendo

  • @PintorLaO
    @PintorLaO 4 года назад +1

    Muy buena clase, muy buen maestro.

  • @gumbiOrtiz
    @gumbiOrtiz 4 года назад +1

    ❤️ great job !🎵 wonderful explanation !

  • @JohnSmith-uh5jn
    @JohnSmith-uh5jn 4 года назад +1

    So informative. Muchisimo gracias.

  • @johnnyblas576
    @johnnyblas576 3 года назад +2

    Love it bro

  • @AntonioPortnyagin
    @AntonioPortnyagin 2 года назад +1

    When U will play on big conga on the back?

  • @stevelaporta5791
    @stevelaporta5791 4 года назад +1

    bravo professore. thank you!

  • @darfernan06
    @darfernan06 4 года назад +1

    Muy bueno! Muchas gracias dance papi, me voy a dedicar a ver si finalmente lo agarro

  • @georgepeguero
    @georgepeguero 2 года назад +2

    Hermano, eso suena cubanisismoooooooooo! Pa' Solarrrrr ! BENDICIONES!

  • @bhakta949
    @bhakta949 2 месяца назад

    Love You Maestro ….Viva folklorico Sabroso ! 🙏

  • @Joe-yi8xj
    @Joe-yi8xj 4 месяца назад +1

    Is that an 11"?

  • @diegodist
    @diegodist 3 года назад +3

    Edgardo, this presentation is excellent! I have been working on it and feel comfortable with both rides and changing the sounds or notes in the rides and it helps a lot. Next I will take on some of the freestyling examples.
    I have a cuestion since you use Percussion Tutor. I have noticed that in the quinto section of Guaguanco in this app they play a lot over the last note of the clave. So where the ride you show us plays on 3& they play on 3. I suppose that any quinto player can choose, etc. But will anyone upset if you play like the Percussion Tutor quinto (which I also have been practicing) in a rumba with experts? I have seen critiques on the spot for things that go over my head, so I ask.

    • @Eddysuconga
      @Eddysuconga 2 года назад

      Dear Diego, gracias por tu comentario, thanks for your comment. Look: Listen, copy or imitate what you like or "catches your ear", explore yourself, what is played in percussion tutor is good as well, and as I said in the video, many Quinto players have their own "marking" points within the clave... The thing is: you are LISTENING to the clave and paying attention and thinking about how you are doing things now: that is the ultimate progress!

  • @oktavianlowe4107
    @oktavianlowe4107 2 года назад +1

    danke😍

  • @kosmonparran4495
    @kosmonparran4495 4 года назад +1

    was wondering where you got the recorded rhythms of calve, sticks, and Guaguanco to practice with.
    I have many classic recordings which I love to play with. but it would be great to have the separate
    parts to practice with. love your channel thx!

    • @dancepapi
      @dancepapi  4 года назад +1

      App is called Salsa Rhythm:
      apps.apple.com/us/app/salsa-rhythm/id379868541

    • @kosmonparran4495
      @kosmonparran4495 4 года назад +1

      @@dancepapi yes thank you I have that app for android but there are no sticks only Clave , I here sticks over your Guaguanco??

  • @katemarin8703
    @katemarin8703 11 месяцев назад +1

    2:00

  • @pasqualemarino2449
    @pasqualemarino2449 4 года назад +1

    ...grazie maestro....

  • @solomongrundy6806
    @solomongrundy6806 3 года назад +2

    Don Edgardo, do you know when the CP became part of the LP? Around what year was that? Muchas gracias por la información!!

    • @Eddysuconga
      @Eddysuconga 3 года назад

      Solomon, CP was always a part of LP, just like Matador is etc. Thank you!

    • @solomongrundy6806
      @solomongrundy6806 3 года назад +1

      @@Eddysuconga Thank you for responding, I was under the impression that CP was its own company and was later purchased by LP.

  • @pjrodmd
    @pjrodmd 3 года назад +1

    is the ride the same thing as the lock ?

    • @Eddysuconga
      @Eddysuconga 3 года назад +1

      Hi, Yes different terminology for the same concept. Gracias por tu comentario.

  • @bebellag
    @bebellag 4 года назад +1

    Amei

  • @proberaum7015
    @proberaum7015 4 года назад +1

    Bien! Saludos de Berlin, asere! ;-) Ave Maria Morena...

  • @martinfernandez5908
    @martinfernandez5908 3 года назад +1

    Hola ! Nunca toca encima de la clave? Nunca coinciden los golpes de el quinto ? Gracias si me respondes !

    • @Eddysuconga
      @Eddysuconga 3 года назад

      Hola... Gracias por tu apoyo y comentario. En general el Quinto no va a tocar los mismos exactos golpes sobre la clave, pero eso no quiere decir que no escuches alguna vez golpes que concuerden... En síntesis lo que te quiero explicar es que el que esta tocando el Quinto, no tiene porque tocar encima de la clave, pues sería como intentar decir con el tambor: "¿Ven? ...Si sé donde esta la clave!!" Y eso es muy de "principiante" digamos... El Quinto en la Rumba es un instrumento con mucha libertad y espacio para l improvisación este video es sólo el puntapié inicial del partido. Suerte en tu práctica. Gracias.

    • @martinfernandez5908
      @martinfernandez5908 3 года назад +1

      Ok muchísimas gracias por responder. 🙏

  • @jaimedelahoz9955
    @jaimedelahoz9955 4 года назад +1

    Hola!! Hace poco me compré unos bongos y he estado aprendiendo gracias a tus videos (el martillo y sus variaciones). Antes de nada, quiero que sepas que prácticamente no tengo ni idea de música/instrumentos. Verás, quiero aprender a tocar algunas canciones (el ritmo) con amigos que usan otros instrumentos, pero no sale el tutorial en youtube. Te quería preguntar si me puedes explicar como aprender a tocar canciones, si usas alguna aplicación especial para aprender el ritmo o si tienes algun consejo. Muchas gracias, y seguid con el trabajo!!

    • @Eddysuconga
      @Eddysuconga 4 года назад

      Empieza por comprarte una conga o un set de dos, 11 Pulgadas mínimo de diámetro la mas chica. Luego comienza con los videos the Dance Papi: "The Seven Sounds of the Conga", "Basic Tumbao", etc etc... Primero tienes que aprender los distintos ritmos básicos, que en general son los que se tocan en la salsa, cumbia etc... Luego te preocupas por aprender canciones... Mi consejo (arriba) es si quieres verdaderamente aprender. Obvio tu puedes simplemente "jam" y golpear como tu lo sientas el tambor, pero al menos aprende la técnica básica para no lastimarte. Yo voy a subir pronto un video donde enseño como aprender una canción, pero reitero, la gente que lo aprecie mas será la gente que (obvio) sepa los básico de tocar correctamente Congas. Suerte!

    • @jaimedelahoz9955
      @jaimedelahoz9955 4 года назад

      @@Eddysuconga ok muchas gracias!! y porfavor sube ese video de como aprender una cancion. Mientras tanto estare practicando. Aguanteee!!

  • @pjrodmd
    @pjrodmd 4 года назад +1

    Edgard :please clarify something for me .What makes a quinto a quinto? size or the picth .? or both? I have a conga that is 9 inches in diameter is this a quinto?Thanks.BTW. Nice video.

    • @Eddysuconga
      @Eddysuconga 4 года назад

      You will not be able to get a Quinto High pitch with any drum larger than 11' inches. Your 9 inch drum would qualify as a "Re-Quinto", even smaller than a Quinto. But those are rarely under 10' diameter. I must say, that probably your drum is for young children getting started (no judgement of the drum intended here) ... In general, adults should stick to traditional Conga sizes: 11' (Quinto) 11:75' (Conga) and 12'5 (Tumba) ... But that doesn't stop you from having great fun with your 9' drum, but unless is a good quality drum, don't try to "crank" it to the pitch of my Quinto on the video, because you may bust a tuning lug, or the skin, etc. Hope this helps clarify! Please: Subscribe to the channel! Thanks!

    • @pjrodmd
      @pjrodmd 4 года назад +1

      @@Eddysuconga Thanks.Can any 11 inch conga be used as a quinto as long as it is tuned to a high pitch ?

    • @pjrodmd
      @pjrodmd 4 года назад

      I am subscribed to your channel. I hope you don' t mind that I shared your quinto video with a Face Book group called Quinto Cubano along with your web site.If it is not please let me know.It was very well received by the way.

    • @Eddysuconga
      @Eddysuconga 4 года назад

      @@pjrodmd 11' is a Quinto, what makes students confused is that manufacturers of commercial Congas, have made under dimensioned sets ("entry level sets") labeling them as conga sets (10 and 11') ... Either the 10 or 11' will do as a Quinto, but if the hardware, skin or tuning lugs are not of a decent quality, neither of them are going to handle the pressure of going up to that pitch. Quality is a very important factor on this drums.

    • @Eddysuconga
      @Eddysuconga 4 года назад +1

      @@pjrodmd Thanks for your subscription to the channel. The videos are free and I am very Thankful for you sharing it... By all means! The more viewers, and more people learning with them the better. Thanks!

  • @ralphysmaelvlogs9186
    @ralphysmaelvlogs9186 Год назад +1

  • @italo512
    @italo512 4 года назад +1

    Brotha, I need help, and I hope you know. Frankie Ruiz's second album, Voy Pa' Encima, do you know who played the conga?? I think it was La Solucion, but wanted to know the percussionist!! Love ya Brotha!!!

    • @andresperez8099
      @andresperez8099 4 года назад

      Jimmy Morales is conga player on Frankie Ruiz albums AS a Soloist

    • @italo512
      @italo512 4 года назад

      @@andresperez8099 thank u Brotha, between trying for awhile to figure it out!!!

  • @whodhavethoughtit3784
    @whodhavethoughtit3784 3 года назад +3

    My very first drum was a valje Quinto... 1978

    • @Eddysuconga
      @Eddysuconga 3 года назад +1

      Nice drum! Not bad for "starters"!

  • @Misterdandamanify
    @Misterdandamanify 4 года назад +1

    Variation 5:20
    Real player: 6:24

  • @Misterdandamanify
    @Misterdandamanify 4 года назад +1

    4:13 Kinto pattern 1

  • @Misterdandamanify
    @Misterdandamanify 4 года назад +1

    Im getting there with the basics.
    1AND 2and 3AND 4AND 1 and 2AND 3and FOUR

    • @dancepapi
      @dancepapi  4 года назад +1

      There's half measures too! :-)

  • @olowasegun6829
    @olowasegun6829 4 года назад +1

    I like that wawa

  • @namalsusantha3533
    @namalsusantha3533 4 года назад +1

    maru

  • @litobakzcozykc7616
    @litobakzcozykc7616 4 года назад +1

    Gracias, pero lo mejor es desde un comienzo explicar cada golpe marcando la clave, no los pulsos a tierra... porque en la “cancha” nadie toca a tierra, todo está amarrado con la clave.

    • @Eddysuconga
      @Eddysuconga 4 года назад

      Loa, Gracias por tu comentario, pero entiende que este video es para principiantes en el asunto de improvisar. En mi opinión, que diferente a la tuya, el estudiante tiene que primero entender donde esta el pulso "El UNO" el down beat, y muchos de ellos no están preparados para -directamente y al principio- entender la síncopa y coordinación con la clave, de todos modos, más adelante en el video todo esta bien explicado en relación a la clave. Entender la clave es un proceso lento. Gracias de nuevo por tu comentario.

    • @litobakzcozykc7616
      @litobakzcozykc7616 4 года назад

      Edgardo Cambon muchos estudiantes se acostumbran y luego cuando se topan en un jam o lo que fuese, en donde se marca la entrada como siempre desde la clave y no con el pulso a tierra, entonces no saben dónde están parados, no saben qué hacer, nisiquiera cómo entrar en 2-3 o 3-2.

  • @alfredobrown
    @alfredobrown 4 года назад +4

    No es la conga, es el conguero!

  • @TheMissEvel
    @TheMissEvel 4 года назад +4

    That is so dificult😑

    • @dancepapi
      @dancepapi  4 года назад +1

      Just takes practice! :-)

    • @msglorious2real
      @msglorious2real 3 года назад

      I feel the same I have no rhythm

    • @stefanblue660
      @stefanblue660 3 года назад

      It is the most difficult thing to do on congas. I could'nt find the patterns in the solo 🧐

    • @stefanblue660
      @stefanblue660 3 года назад

      @@dancepapi Yes, but how?

    • @Squirrelconga
      @Squirrelconga Год назад

      More ☕!!!!

  • @bittlecom
    @bittlecom 5 месяцев назад +1

    Mannnnnn..nnn them quinto' is poppIN'. LOL I love congas so much. I should had put myself into so much pressure then I been a happy player. I only want to play in a band, I needed players and a female singer. LOL

  • @bittlecom
    @bittlecom 5 месяцев назад +1

    Yeh, I write my own songs in my younger days, tell you this. I know a guy he plays with all the greats he is Sekou Bunch, he told me if I don't do it then like most players do, younger days the never. I told him, maybe when I'm 50. I need congas made for me, I called Remo, I was told yes. More times goes by...