So glad to hear this. All the people saying eat more protein, and eat more protein when you’re old… I applied my brain - the body does not build or keep what it does not need. Hence eating more protein will not build more muscle. Resistance training will build/maintain muscle. Taking calcium will not keep your bones dense. Using your bones will keep the, dense. Etc.
@@ronhumphreys3762 anecdotes are not great evidence for decision making? There’s also a lot of evidence showing low protein = longer life. And the video we’re commenting on lists the science against ‘high protein’.
@@ronhumphreys3762 according to your comment, we could now say that meat eaters are unable to learn that anecdotes, out of context, without informing details, no double blind studies etc. are not science neither a good guide... but, of course, we know your comment is just an anecdote...
@@ronhumphreys3762 Perhaps Dr. McDougall just needed to do more cardio and strength training on a regular basis. He seemed to be active, but maybe with activities that he only did once in a while. He did spend a lot of time on medical things, as well as lots of medical reading. So maybe he needed more daily activities. It takes diet, plus exercise, plus sleep, etc. to be in your best health.
It seems that Greger has not listened to (or read the work of) Don Layman, a world-class expert in this area. One of the key points that Layman brings out is that to optimally stimulate muscle mTOR, especially in older subjects, protein DOSE is critical. It has to be at least 30 grams, and 40 is better. Since we all (including Layman) know that the potential of dietary protein to influence muscle mass is moderate at best, these studies showing that wimpy half-assed additional quantities of protein (30-40 grams per day in sum) -- even IF given in optimal fashion (as BOLUS for reason mentioned above) -- will have only a modest if any effect. Most of Greger's cited studies barely managed to give an extra 30 grams per day, not even given as a bolus. And further, the protein was not even given at times (specified by Layman) of maximum response, namely first in AM and last in PM. These "studies" are at best worthless and at worst could be said to have been designed to fail. A trial with a reasonable prospect of success (and we DO want to succeed, don't we?) would employ multiple 35-40 gram BOLUS doses of protein supplement, one first in AM, one last in PM, and perhaps one or two mid-day. If three doses per day, that would bring total supplemental protein up to 100-120 grams per day which, added to background intake of (say) 100 grams per day, would total 200-220 grams -- an amount that might reasonably be expected to have an impact on muscle mass over time. At least it would be getting into the LOW end described by many scores of studies showing favorable muscle mass effects of protein in the range of 2.2-3.3 grams/kg body weight (i.e., in 90 kg person, about 200-300 grams/day). At least we would have a fighting chance of accomplishing something! That is, as opposed to those piddling 30-grams-per-day supplement studies, which stood no chance at all.
Was taking supplements when I first went plant based. Put on much more muscle when I shifted to making sure my diet was sufficient on its own. Beans and vegetables are literally available at every grocery store. Not very challenging, really.
Excellent and much needed evidence based analysis! I learned this decades ago when I went to school to become a dietitian but it’s so hard to convince people (even when presented this type of research). It’s so heavily marketed that people just can’t believe additional protein is necessary/needed. Maybe because people equate muscle as being protein, so they think if you eat more protein you will make more protein?
THANK YOU Dr. Greger and your team for this timely and thorough review of the medical research literature - things have been purposefully confusing lately around this exact issue and your analysis here cut right through it all.
I am 60 and have been plant based for 40+ years. I have a LOT of muscle way too much for my liking as a female. Genetically i easily develop muscle but i also walk 12500 minimum steps a day, i do my own housework, jump on the trampoline, do dance while watching videos and occasionally do some Pilates. I only WISH i could lose some muscle mass but it seems impossible for me. I only eat plants and follow basically the same diet that dr Gregor recommends. Too much protein is hard on the kidneys. It is a marketing ploy to get people to feel anxious about their diets. I do not eat processed food and my body seems to suck up the nutrients i need from beans, grains, vegetables and fruit with a bit of nuts and seeds. Go figure, plants provide me with all the protein my body needs - just like a cow who doesn’t eat other animals or drink milk as an adult.
Are you kidding, mama? Muscle on a woman is beautiful to many of us. Ignore those who think otherwise. You'll be happy with your muscles mass when you grow older, as loss of muscle mass leads to frailty. It sounds as if you're doing everything right, so congratulations!
It’s so interesting that so many exercise professionals tout the benefits of at least one gram of protein per pound for hypertrophy. I hope Dr Gregor is right because I can’t choke down that much protein every day.
Somehow the .8g/kg got switched to .8g/lb. Could have been simple failure to convert properly or maybe something more diabolical by the meat and dairy industry to get us to eat more protein?
@@elisacohenusa I agree. Processing that much protein is tough on kidneys. 1g per pound feels so forced. I end up relying on processed protein, which defeats my purpose of getting to a whole foods. I am sticking to fruits and veggies with protein secondary
@@TravisHowrish-v2c resistance training sparks muscle protein synthesis but eating protein is needed. One will not grow muscle without protein if they lift, not will they gain muscle if they only eat protein and don't train
The increase in organ size and water retention is a bit concerning! Looks like resistance training is much more important than protein intake. The heavy metal issue in protein powders is also concerning.
Just look for protein powders that are informed choice, informed sport, or NSF certified for sport to ensure contamination is below detectable (and by consequence likely harmful levels)
@@CharGC123 protein powders are convenient and generally high quality ways to get protein in the diet. Are they necessary, no I wouldn't say that. But they can make life easier especially when traveling to get in one's desired amount of daily protein.
@@Parker_Miller_M.S. I'll take my chances with naturals sources of protein.......and these studies he points to prove it out....all these protein supplements are simply money making gaslighting marketing schemes......but hey, everyone can spend their money on how they see fit........I think drinking milk might be the easiest way to ingest instant protein but of course, thats the evil animal protein. I only bring that up as an example because I view it as possibly a slightly better option than the powders and "Ensure" and all that other crap out there, even if there are "high" quality options....cows milk might be better than that stuff in relative terms....of course there are PLENTY of high protein natural plant based whole food choices that contain tons of protein.....which should be really the "go to" rather than these highly processed products...
Now I’m absolutely, totally confused! My doctor lectured me on increasing my protein to prevent age related sarcopenia. I can’t read studies and I’m not a nutritionist. I rely on my doctor for diet recommendations. When I argue I get plenty of protein on a plant based diet, he directs me to numerous studies showing the benefits of increased protein. And now your video has numerous studies showing the opposite. Who am I supposed to believe!
I’d just maintain the higher protein intake, because the potential negative health consequences of increasing protein intake (in the context of a generally health dietary pattern) are minuscule in comparison to the negative health consequences of sarcopenia. The general scientific consensus seems to be that as you age, it is beneficial to slightly increase protein intake (hence why it is in most International dietary recommendations). I respect Dr Greger, and the idea definitely warrants further study. But the whole concept is pretty insignificant in the when you zoom out. I think it’s best to not stress out, and to just make consistent healthy choices - with a few treats here and there to maintain happiness :)
" I rely on my doctor for diet recommendations, Who am I supposed to believe?" Already certainly not the vast majority of doctors, here is why: ruclips.net/video/Z84_LwPzAKw/видео.html ruclips.net/video/5ZbQvTxYYf8/видео.html ruclips.net/video/_7QJJl_Msfw/видео.html
Protein by itself won't build any more muscle because you need a stimulus to make new muscles. You've got to incorporate resistance training to get the benefit of adding new muscle tissue and increasing strength. Yeah, if you just consume more protein and don't do weight training, nothing happens. The same thing even applies to anabolic steroids. You can't just take them and sit on your couch and expect to look like Arnold. I've been vegan for 6 years, and at 54, I'm stronger now than I was at 34 because I increased my protein and added weight training together.
Exactly true. If you want to design a study or studies showing no effect what so ever on protein intake related to muscle retention or increase, simply have all your study subjects or observational participants not exercise at all. It is the easiest thing to do really. And as you mention it applies also to steroids I put on weight to accomplish it but really my best lifts were in that 55 year old range which actually lasted until about the age of 65 or so. Yes more than ever at that age. I am vegan now about 35 years. I did have to up my protein at around 67 or so to stop declines. I now five or so years later seem to be improving over that at 67. I assume I was protein deficient for a while at that time. Hard to say as covid may have exasperated it somewhat at 67.. I cannot say definitively. But nevertheless strength is increasing for about a two years now. When I started to increase protein at that age I just felt like superman in the gym.
Exactly and I'm sure you train with intensity in the gym. Anecdotal as it may be....Adding 2.5lbs to a lift isn't going to do a thing to stimulate muscle growth. We need overload. None of these studies addressed this.
" I increased my protein and added weight training together." Then why do you think you know the protein helped...? TO know it, first you must do just the resistance training without the extra protein, measure your gains, and then do the same but adding extra protein, compare results... Now, because you added both together, you are not in a position to know if extra protein helps to you. But thanks to reasearch studies, we would do best basing our opinion on the fact such studies do not show that adding extra protetin to weight training helps. Unless you present better evidence, I find much more convincing the studies showing extra protetin offers no benefits but some risks.
You gain roughly 1lbs of lean muscle mass per week on 600mg of exogenous testosterone, *without* doing any exercise at all. How long that'll last is unclear (at least 12 weeks) and you indeed will never look like Arnold. It is obviously not advised to take any T without doctor supervision.
Hi Dr Greger, thanks for sharing your knowledge and putting together all the evidence out there. There’s a recent interview by Huberman Lab with Dr Gabrielle Lyon that’s advocated for higher protein intake for longevity and maintaining muscle mass. Will be interesting to hear a healthy debate from both camps as a form of education.
huberman is a guy who eats butter because he thinks that he has to eat cholesterol to produce testosterone. 5 minutes of googling would've told him that people produce all cholesterol they need and that vegans have higher testosterone levels than cholesterol eaters. basically he is spreading dangerous misinformation.
who is interested in debate with uninformed party? huberman promotes eating butter because he thinks that dietary cholesterol is required for testosterone production. 5 minutes of googling would tell him that human body produces all cholesterol it needs and that vegans have higher testosterone levels.
@@ilonabaier6042 who is interested in debate with uninformed party? huberman promotes eating butter because he thinks that dietary cholesterol is required for testosterone production. 5 minutes of googling would tell him that human body produces all cholesterol it needs and that vegans have higher testosterone levels.
Wow! Once again you used hard science and research to debunk something they were starting to convince me (against my personal observations) about! Thank-you, Dr. Gregor!
Thanks for tackling this subject. I've been concerned about my protein intake since I hit 60, but I feel confident now in just sticking to my strength training 3x/week.
Oh good. I recently went down the protein rabbit hole and am finding it very difficult to achieve 100-plus grams a day as a vegetarian. I remembered Dr. McDougall would bring it up sometimes and say not to worry so much about that. It can be confusing for sure. For a while I will try to hit that mark as I am in the process of recovering from open heart surgery and both the nutritionist and Nurse Practitioner at Cleveland Clinic told me to mind my protein intake for a while.
Strength training for the win! The only thing I would like to add to this research would be whether micro biome enhancement could enhance absorption, since it seems, they are not even absorbing the protein that they’re eating in the first place
I work out. Probably more than most. I turn 57 next month. I've been a vegan for more than 30 years. Since increasing my protein intake via beans (including black, lentils, soy) and homemade seitan mixed with black beans, I have enjoyed greater well being. I recover better from my exercise. I have lower food cravings and have an easier time maintaining a healthy weight. I have never been a fan of protein powders as they have no fiber and my body didn't seem to digest them properly. That said at 76kgs bodyweight, I eat a minimum of 100gr per day of protein and often get up into the 120'-130s. I prefer to keep my fat intake low and focus on eating quality carbs and protein from food sources. Yes, resistance training builds and maintains muscles. That should be obvious. 2000 kcal of Cantaloupe has 50 grams of protein. I love cantaloupe. I really do. But there is not enough protein in cantaloupe. 2000 kcal or lentils has 160 grams of protein. I love lentils too. A diet of cantaloupe and lentils could easily provide over 100 grams of protein per day. 2000 kcal of Tempeh has well over 200grams of protein. You get the idea. Would love to see studies on higher protein diets of people eating whole plant foods.
Kind of contradicts a lot of the research findings out there. For example, according to a 2017 meta-analysis (DOI: 10.3945/ajcn.116.143594) of 17 RCT's: "Compared with resistance exercise training alone, protein supplementation combined with RET may have a stronger effect in preventing aging-related muscle mass attenuation and leg strength loss in older people". In 2018 a meta-analysis of 49 studies (DOI: 10.1136/bjsports-2017-097608): "Dietary protein supplementation significantly enhanced changes in muscle strength and size during prolonged RET in healthy adults." Also, Veronese et al. (2019) - "Effect of dietary supplementation with protein on muscle mass and strength: a meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials". This study found that dietary protein supplementation significantly increased muscle mass and strength in older adults, particularly when combined with resistance training. These meta-analyses generally support the importance of adequate protein intake for maintaining muscle mass and function, especially in older adults. They suggest that protein intake above the current RDA, particularly when combined with resistance exercise, can be beneficial for preventing sarcopenia and maintaining or increasing muscle mass and strength.
@@IanRushtonMusic dr gregor and vegans are very biased on many things.even in his many vdos ,he deliberately skips non vegan things showing b3nefits but slide shows.he cherry picks data.
I'm really grateful for this video which makes me feel better about not eating a ton of protein. I do lift weights, which seems to be working to regaining some of my lost muscle.
Exercise itself alone considered will not stop muscle loss... How that? Many anorexics related to their disorder are also exercise maniacs. They steadily lose weight and muscle despite some of them exercising all day every day if they can. One YT fitness guy died three years ago from that sort of thing. He was out of the Uk and a young guy mid twenties famous in the community. He was not thin but exercised manically and only slept about 3 hours a night. He was probably by BMI normal weight but tried to maintain a abnormally low body fat so excluded mostly things like fat. So he died of a heart attack related to heart failure, his heart muscle had deteriorated. Point is it is the whole of it, diet exercise sleep and rest.
I'm suspicious of advice coming from the fitness industry. I've noticed they don't differentiate between strength, muscle size and lean mass. I think they are biased toward protein supplements, weight training and fitness mumbo jumbo. I'm 79, and my Tanita tells me things haven't changed much in thirty years, without high doses of protein or a gym.. I only do pushups and body weight exercises with maybe 70-80 units per day of protein and look pretty much what I did thirty years ago, except more grey hair.
According to Effect of Protein Supplementation Combined with Resistance Training on Muscle Mass, Strength and Function in the Elderly: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis by L Hou etc, they stated clearly that the muscles are stronger when combining protein with training. Yes, it ended with "no improvement in muscle function" but that should not be the emphasis. Reason 1, muscle function (gait speed, time up and go test, chair rise time, stair climb test, SPPB (Short Physical Performance Battery)) are a expression of multiple factors, one of which includes habits. Yes, habits. Should we expect someone with a small increase in strength suddenly start moving faster? No, because they are used to whatever speed they use before, consciously or subconsciously to prevent injury. Point is that we need to do longer lile 6 months+ studies to see people changing their habits. Another thing to mention is grip strength is one of the key variables for predicting longevity, which "handgrip strength increased by 0.29 kg (95% CI: 0.08, 0.50; P=0.008)" as quoted from the study. So the participants were getting stronger grip strength, which we can predict to correlate to longer lifespan. How do you pick all these papers and yet arrive at such a negative conclusion is beyond me.
i didn't supplement with protein isolates for years but after adding a teaspoon of creatine i tried it, eventually landing at three tbsp/day (one per meal) and found it did add a few lbs of muscle mass but mostly my body became happier with the rebalance of macros in terms of digestion, satiation, stool consistency and regularity - plus we shouldn't be dismissive of increasing the body's ability to retain water when doing large amounts of cardio/resistance exercise, even with the added water retention i still need to drink a sports drink after getting super sweaty (which is almost daily), so the increased water storage creates a buffer for electrolyte depletion. this is a personal account, ymmv
@@redguru1 before learning my lesson (i learn everything the hard way) about the dangers of dehydration i had a no oil, no added sugars, no added salt policy, which served me well for years but since my scary event i found there is something about the electrolyte recipe used by athletes that my body needs as well - maybe after the summer heat i will play around with the ratios but for now i just drink the drink and live with the salt chemically film it leaves in my mouth
@@SergePavlovsky rebalancing my macros with the protein isolates and took a long time (more than a year) and it was feedback from digestion, satiation, stool consistency and regularity mentioned above that i used to arrive that the three tbs (one per meal) - you don't need a control group to pay attention to those things. as for the muscle mass, my exercise regimen preceded the introduction of creatine and proteins and the increase followed in time - so correlated at least. that said, it's a personal anecdote, i would be skeptical too if someone else said it
Ahh just spent so much energy trying to up my protein lately, first i heard lower was better for longevity, then i heard that the female specific studies show our bodies work differently and we ought to be chugging it back as we get older. Thank you so much as always, please could you consider including in your videos the gender of participants as much as possible so i can rest assured things are relevant to me, been flip-flopping way too much recently. (I have been interested in fasting benefits for years but now i'm hearing the evidence is contradictory for women?)
I’ve been waiting for this one! Thank you Dr. G. 👍👍👍 P.S. What about in the case of Cancer Cachexia “ - the same?? As long as eating healthy amounts of plants and calories?
Thank you for this really useful summation of the current research. This is really helpful for me personally and I will share with others who I think would benefit also.
😂Oh my! This study certainly is building muscle ..fonger and jaw muscle.. Play nice! Shouldnt the concern about consuming heavy metals worry everyone here? Thank you for your consideration. Dr G. you rock!
Physionic has a video out today saying that there is a correlation between creatine supplementation and muscle mass/strength for age related sarcopenia.
I think both are mostly on the same track (base on Dr. Gregor's video on increasing longevity by decreasing methonine (which happens to be less in plant-based protein).
Im 61 and take half of my protein in the form of powder. I eat meat only a few times per month, and I eat beans regularly. I also take amino acid supplements. But I also exercise, ride a bike, and hit the gym 3-4 times a week. I don't have a muscle mass loss problem.
I think the answer is somewhere in the middle. I think everyone agrees resistance training needs to happen. If you are not doing that your intake can be on the low end. If you are an older adult, over 50, and doing 2-3 days of resistance training and you are working to failure in the gym, your daily protein intake should be higher. Timing is also very important and most importantly you should track how your body responds.
Misleading article. Anabolic steriods to increase muscle mass without resistance training period. Male kids put on loads of muscle during pubity even without resistance training due to surge in testosterone. That been said protein is needed to build muscle upon resistance training.
of course the curious follow up question is....than what option is there to help with building muscle or retain muscle mass? Although the answer wasn't stated in the vid, if you look at the description, he does refer us to "creatine" and some of his prior vids on the subject matter......I seem to remember these to some degree in that creatine can help, but I think there were some side effects .....but don't take my word go check out his prior vids if interested to get the full low down on it........he puts the links next to the vids next to his reference to creatine.......good luck!
The only side effect know from creatine is a increase in body weight. It is typical to add about five pounds or so as it causes it is thought increased water retention in muscles. It does not add up or compound but initially it typically does and it will remain till one stops.
Do the proper workout and recovery, get enough sleep, eat healthy foods so none of your metabolic cycle is limited, drink enough water. Pretty much it. People want something to give them the results that they don't want to work for.
what about when you add testosterone (in those who have been shown to have low levels or low free/bioavailable levels) , protein and resistance training? Do these people subjectively feel better? While not objective, the subjective sensation of feeling better may be a good metric for people as well. While I understand the studies I do not think they tell the whole story in a real clinical setting with individuals outside of the population models typically discussed.
So ... based on this, can you conclude that muscle growth has less to do with protein availability - or is it possible that the studies failed to include an ongoing analysis of protein consumed vs protein digested? Anecdotally, I'm 72 y.o. and suffer from lower energy states if I'm exercising with hypertrophy in mind during my resistance workouts. If I supplement with HCl, I experience much more stability and can keep going longer. How about trials of seniors where the stool is frequently analyzed to answer questions about protein ingested vs protein digested? At the least, I'd like to see results from seniors who are diagnosed as protein deficient, who received supplementation with amino acids (wouldn't that theoretically remove any concerns about absorption?)
You may find this AI generation interesting. "Role of Leucine: Leucine is an essential amino acid that significantly influences muscle protein synthesis through its action on the mTOR (mammalian target of rapamycin) pathway. For optimal stimulation of muscle protein synthesis, elderly individuals should aim for about 3 g of leucine per meal, alongside 25-30 g of high-quality protein. Supplementation Studies: Clinical studies indicate that leucine supplementation can enhance muscle mass and strength in older adults when combined with adequate dietary protein intake. For instance, administering around 6 g/day of L-leucine has shown improvements in functional performance and preservation of lean mass." Lucine is typically found in higher amounts in meats dairy and such, but isolated soy protein contains similar amounts. It can also be found as a supplement in a powder or pill if vegan.
Thank you so very much for this video. I've been to the London Graphic Store and I always call in at Cass Art (unmissable!). I'll take this video with me next trip to the big smoke! ❤
👏👏👏👏👏 excellent 👍👍👍...iam speechless...i am waiting fitness PhD s and gurus try to debunk all this studies...and its a lot and very in detail analysing... thanks uncle Mike... love from Greece 🇬🇷🏆❤️🙏
These studies evaluate the effect of dietary protein intake on muscle size of (from my understanding) elderly adults who are not weight training. But what do the studies say about how protein intake impacts muscle growth (hypertrophy) in weight training young or middle-age adults?
A good meta analysis not to long ago showed when under stress which may be from various forms to include exercise, which is a form of stress, muscle mass was retained and/or increased when protein amounts were in the higher range. My counters will be censored out here so will not bother to find it but you can, it is published and available.
If I look for the answer to the original question it appears that adding protein to the diet beyond the rda does NOT slow muscle loss. Nowhere in the original question does it ask whether protein makes a difference if you perform weight bearing exercise. Once I listened a couple of times I carved out references to exercise in any of the studies and focused on outcomes when adding proteins and nothing else. I would like to hear about studies on how protein affects muscle mass AND lean muscle in older adults who do exercise. Does additional protein make a difference in the rebuilding of muscle fibers , muscle mass or lean muscle.
You mentioned that we should eat .8 g of protein for every kg of healthy body weight. I am currently overweight and keep finding conflicting information on how much protein to eat. Should I eat .8g for my goal weight or my current weight? I exercise daily and do strength training 3 days/week (in case that makes a difference). Thank you.
According to Prof Chris Gardner (he did the twin study), the RDA of 0.8g/kg covers ~95% of adult in US, thus most are likely already getting 2X. And according to Gardner, most American are already consuming nearly 2X of RDA, even without taking supplements.
Resistance training stimulates your body to build or create more glycogen, a storage form of sugar in your muscle. The tricky part is how much your body needs in using protein and glucose to create it.
I don't know if this is the best place to ask this question, but it has to with a nutrient that slows aging called pentadecanoic acid C15. Do you have any information or opinions about this fatty acid? And, if you think it is worth adding to a person's diet, what is the best source? It seems as if the highest amounts of it are in animal products, and usually only occurs in trace quantities in a few plant foods. Also, there isn't much of a selection of supplements.
Cure for Sarcopenia Syndrome muscle loss with pain ! What is the prevention or cure regime that anyone has tired ? Does anyone have any info about it ?
Why are findings by sports scientists so different from these? It's simply a fact that muscle growth doesn't happen without protein synthesis. So the amount you need is going to vary with how much work your muscles are doing that your body has to adapt to. There is no concession to that in any of these studies nor in Dr. Gregor's summary. He's been beating this drum for quite a while but not at all convincingly.
I’m so confused. My fibromyalgia Dr., along with menopause experts, urge me to get more protein, but these studies suggest it doesn’t matter. After menopause, should we still strive for .8 g per lb of body weight, or just stop being concerned about protein altogether? I really appreciate the meta analysis, btw!
Unless you're a fruitarian or otherwise eating a very limited diet, it's very unlikely that you're not consuming enough protein. Neither of those experts are nutrition specialists, so I would not worry about their nutrition advice. Unfortunately doctors in general know very little about the health effects of food, even within their area of expertise. You go to doctors for meds, surgery and diagnostics, not dietary advice.
If you have a question about your docs dietary advice do not be silly about this. You ask the doc for a referral to a specialist in nutrition. You do not read things on YT comment sections or even base things on what you may see. Do you know this fellow here does not have a specialty in nutrition this video guy here? He does not, he is a md same as your doc. Studies abound hard to say what is right or wrong. Which is why if we have a nutritional problem, we consult with a for pay medical specialist who has qualifications. They do not work for free and we should not expect that. What is the value of things freely given away??? How much of this did you pay for this here?
Dr. Greger, is there some counterpart to you providing ExerciseScienceFacts, i.e., relevant evidence-based results from exercise science research and what it means for an individual from someone who isn't hawking a supplement or a fitness course?
Old people in the study with additional protein didn't gain muscle over those who without additional protein maybe because they didn't lift as heavy as they can? Maybe they didn't push themselves harder during exercise? Maybe they just exercise like they normally would. And what if they not digesting or absorbing much of the additional of protein because of less stomach acid and weaker intestine?
@@iamcosmicdude All the YT influencers produce studies to back up their claims, hardly a one does not. A very few the odd bunch perhaps we could say ,they do not. Some say they just feel better or holy or some other nonsense ,but all the real ones do. WE are forced to read studies ourselves or to compare enough of them with a emphasis on scientists, those credentialed in the field of nutrition, and compare findings. Cherry picking is the name of this game and headline titles to inspire the views. I summarily discard those influencers saying absurd things...take this thing follow this diet, you will not die. you will not get sick ever as it saves time. But that comes with experience.
@@NonchalantWalrusParty I think she has a unconscious bias, which occasionally but rarely shows in her videos. But to the inverse this study nutrition, is her academic field of study and she has participated in the conduction of nutritional research study. This guy here the narrator, is a medical doc with no specialty in nutrition nor study participation experience. His grandmom had cardia disease and was saved by the Pritikin diet. Which is great for those with that.
@@ronhumphreys3762 If you've followed him over the years, it is a bit weird to suggest he isn't a nutrition specialist. The amount of studies he has read on the topic of nutrition is probably the equivalent of like 5+ research PHDs. Participating in doing an actual study doesn't make you know more than anyone else, except in what it is subjectively like to do a study.
I would bet good money that the missing link is this is the intensity of the exercise and how that correlates to protein need. Basically the harder you are working during exercise and also throughout they day, the more protein you need. If you are doing some light to medium weight training then you can probably get away with the standard protein intakes. It's really when you start getting into the HIIT training or very heavy maximal lifts that you are going to need extra protein.
Exactly I see people at the gym every day. they are at the gym but really the phone is the thing not the work out. But I am certain they say to others..hit they gym two hours today, here is my selfie. Protein is not a thing to them standard diet is fine.
@@NoPlanNoProb I rest plenty between sets. But the thing is if you focus on the phone you are not going to put out 100%. Go to a gym a real gym with real lifters, there are few to none using phones in between sets. You are at the gym you do the gym not your phone. No one with any believability nor credentials does not say that. If you have a personal trainer, I have never seen one allowing that excepting a emergency. That is the faint red line saying your work out is real or not. Sorry it is.
Mother's milk only has 6% to 8% protein by calories and this is enough to grow humans at their fasting rate! Human milk has the lowest protein of all primates.
It's logical for the body to detach the muscles when you get old because muscles are high-maintenance tissues and add load on your body functions. Your body is saying, "If you don't use it, simply you lose it so we can do better and go lightweight."
Me = 59 yo, 190lbs, very active, lift weighs, etc. So.... 50 = too little. Over 100 = too much. Moderation of about 75 = a perfect balance 😊 between Gregor vs dozens of others.
The older individuals in the first study weren't strength training. To suggest that muscle mass doesn't increase during strength training is frankly absurd. Liver swelling? For real?
I’m confused. This video suggests in virtually all ways you could test added protein with older ppl had no significant effect and if it did it was with resistance training. However there has been a lot of papers and evidence that looking at adding more protein to older ppl who even Dr Luongo’s master thesis is “add more protein as you get older and older ppl don’t utilize protein like when they’re younger.” Even his life’s work says that. I’m a bit confused. Logically if the older we get the less we utilize protein and the older we get the less muscle and frailty we inherently get, and we know you need protein to build and spare muscle wasting/loss when we have too little protein. Again, what am I missing?
The studies showing no effect of protein consumption among the elderly typically they include little to none of resistance training. If you want to design a study which does not show any effect of protein upon muscle retention or growth, simply have your study group do no exercise. Confusing lean body mass with organ size is honestly a new wrinkle for me but....all the studies that I find hold merit the measure of sarcopenia is not lean muscle mass analysis but grip or other strength measure. Quite definitively adequate protein must be provided when one is exercise to reap benefits expected.
Don't buy into the norm of "taking it easy" in retirement. Those who sit around eating danish and complaining about the gov't will surely have a shorter lifespan. Get active and eat healthy
Show the study. More protein is indeed detrimental if one has active kidney and liver disease, causing it? Show the studies? I will only fathom one option here. Increased size of organs, muscles and skin are organs and parts of organs, indicates often proper hydration status which assists functional ability. .
Commercial companies in action - everyone is obsessed with high protein haha. Crucial nutrient but needed only in small amounts. Sorry to burst everyone's bubble.
Your math is adding up. You stated .8 grams per healthy pound of body weight. Then you say 50 grams. .8 × 200 lbs. Equals 160 grams. What am I missing?
Always love your info. I do remember reading a study on older men taking collagen protein where they gained more muscle then placebo. What about HRT/TRT which is all the trend at the moment
Hah just my personal observation. When dietary fasting intermittently was the thing thought to lead to longevity I thought to myself Theravadan monks only eat one meal a day and that typically in the middle of the day or morning. So it works they would live longest...but they do not. Nothing by study suggested that. Now Attia and some others are saying max Vo2 is the thing. But I look around at those who are 100 or older how many are doing HIT to get you that.....zero. I do it but really it is for function not expected longevity benefit, and I have done it for decades. My HIT is punching drills and kicking drills on the heavy bag. It helps I went for a jog yesterday after a big lay off due to a injury now healed....I was about as I was when jogging regularly. So it helps functionally to live longer, I say not. Mostly those people if they do anything they do it casually and lightly. The 122 year old french woman, she used to ride her bike through town pretty daily, she was not a bike racer.
Collagen I am vegan for less harm so will not take it. But is is comprised by 19 amino acids. Here are the most important ones in it. " The Big 3 Amino Acids in Collagen The three most common amino acids in collagen are: glycine Proline Hydroxyproline These three amino acids make up approximately 50% of the amino acid profile of collagen and play a crucial role in providing structure and strength to the body." I do take glycine and some other things to substitute. So if vegan I would not worry that could be worked around, aminos vegan all can be found.
So glad to hear this. All the people saying eat more protein, and eat more protein when you’re old… I applied my brain - the body does not build or keep what it does not need. Hence eating more protein will not build more muscle. Resistance training will build/maintain muscle. Taking calcium will not keep your bones dense. Using your bones will keep the, dense. Etc.
@@ronhumphreys3762 anecdotes are not great evidence for decision making? There’s also a lot of evidence showing low protein = longer life. And the video we’re commenting on lists the science against ‘high protein’.
@@ronhumphreys3762 according to your comment, we could now say that meat eaters are unable to learn that anecdotes, out of context, without informing details, no double blind studies etc. are not science neither a good guide... but, of course, we know your comment is just an anecdote...
@@ronhumphreys3762 Perhaps Dr. McDougall just needed to do more cardio and strength training on a regular basis. He seemed to be active, but maybe with activities that he only did once in a while. He did spend a lot of time on medical things, as well as lots of medical reading. So maybe he needed more daily activities. It takes diet, plus exercise, plus sleep, etc. to be in your best health.
@@ronhumphreys3762 dr McDougall had bad genetics, he suffered from stroke when he was 18 years old. you wouldn't live to 20 with his genes.
It seems that Greger has not listened to (or read the work of) Don Layman, a world-class expert in this area. One of the key points that Layman brings out is that to optimally stimulate muscle mTOR, especially in older subjects, protein DOSE is critical. It has to be at least 30 grams, and 40 is better.
Since we all (including Layman) know that the potential of dietary protein to influence muscle mass is moderate at best, these studies showing that wimpy half-assed additional quantities of protein (30-40 grams per day in sum) -- even IF given in optimal fashion (as BOLUS for reason mentioned above) -- will have only a modest if any effect. Most of Greger's cited studies barely managed to give an extra 30 grams per day, not even given as a bolus.
And further, the protein was not even given at times (specified by Layman) of maximum response, namely first in AM and last in PM.
These "studies" are at best worthless and at worst could be said to have been designed to fail.
A trial with a reasonable prospect of success (and we DO want to succeed, don't we?) would employ multiple 35-40 gram BOLUS doses of protein supplement, one first in AM, one last in PM, and perhaps one or two mid-day. If three doses per day, that would bring total supplemental protein up to 100-120 grams per day which, added to background intake of (say) 100 grams per day, would total 200-220 grams -- an amount that might reasonably be expected to have an impact on muscle mass over time. At least it would be getting into the LOW end described by many scores of studies showing favorable muscle mass effects of protein in the range of 2.2-3.3 grams/kg body weight (i.e., in 90 kg person, about 200-300 grams/day). At least we would have a fighting chance of accomplishing something! That is, as opposed to those piddling 30-grams-per-day supplement studies, which stood no chance at all.
Was taking supplements when I first went plant based. Put on much more muscle when I shifted to making sure my diet was sufficient on its own.
Beans and vegetables are literally available at every grocery store. Not very challenging, really.
Excellent and much needed evidence based analysis! I learned this decades ago when I went to school to become a dietitian but it’s so hard to convince people (even when presented this type of research). It’s so heavily marketed that people just can’t believe additional protein is necessary/needed. Maybe because people equate muscle as being protein, so they think if you eat more protein you will make more protein?
@@t10mcg You speak as if this is conclusive evidence. As far as i can tell there is more complexity than meets the the eye.
@@zukodude487987 your ability to tell is very weak
THANK YOU Dr. Greger and your team for this timely and thorough review of the medical research literature - things have been purposefully confusing lately around this exact issue and your analysis here cut right through it all.
I am 60 and have been plant based for 40+ years. I have a LOT of muscle way too much for my liking as a female. Genetically i easily develop muscle but i also walk 12500 minimum steps a day, i do my own housework, jump on the trampoline, do dance while watching videos and occasionally do some Pilates. I only WISH i could lose some muscle mass but it seems impossible for me.
I only eat plants and follow basically the same diet that dr Gregor recommends. Too much protein is hard on the kidneys. It is a marketing ploy to get people to feel anxious about their diets. I do not eat processed food and my body seems to suck up the nutrients i need from beans, grains, vegetables and fruit with a bit of nuts and seeds.
Go figure, plants provide me with all the protein my body needs - just like a cow who doesn’t eat other animals or drink milk as an adult.
Are you kidding, mama? Muscle on a woman is beautiful to many of us. Ignore those who think otherwise. You'll be happy with your muscles mass when you grow older, as loss of muscle mass leads to frailty. It sounds as if you're doing everything right, so congratulations!
@@paulmaxwell8851 I agree with you. I've had stomach surgery and struggle to maintain weight. Skinny and old isn't attractive.
It’s so interesting that so many exercise professionals tout the benefits of at least one gram of protein per pound for hypertrophy. I hope Dr Gregor is right because I can’t choke down that much protein every day.
Somehow the .8g/kg got switched to .8g/lb. Could have been simple failure to convert properly or maybe something more diabolical by the meat and dairy industry to get us to eat more protein?
@@elisacohenusa I agree. Processing that much protein is tough on kidneys. 1g per pound feels so forced. I end up relying on processed protein, which defeats my purpose of getting to a whole foods. I am sticking to fruits and veggies with protein secondary
It's probably 0.7 g/lb for best results anyway
If protein built muscle then the general population would all be muscular. Intense, progressive weight training builds muscle, not protein.
@@TravisHowrish-v2c resistance training sparks muscle protein synthesis but eating protein is needed. One will not grow muscle without protein if they lift, not will they gain muscle if they only eat protein and don't train
The increase in organ size and water retention is a bit concerning! Looks like resistance training is much more important than protein intake. The heavy metal issue in protein powders is also concerning.
Maybe you need a larger liver and kidneys to deal with all the protein.
Just look for protein powders that are informed choice, informed sport, or NSF certified for sport to ensure contamination is below detectable (and by consequence likely harmful levels)
@@Parker_Miller_M.S. Why bother?
@@CharGC123 protein powders are convenient and generally high quality ways to get protein in the diet. Are they necessary, no I wouldn't say that. But they can make life easier especially when traveling to get in one's desired amount of daily protein.
@@Parker_Miller_M.S. I'll take my chances with naturals sources of protein.......and these studies he points to prove it out....all these protein supplements are simply money making gaslighting marketing schemes......but hey, everyone can spend their money on how they see fit........I think drinking milk might be the easiest way to ingest instant protein but of course, thats the evil animal protein. I only bring that up as an example because I view it as possibly a slightly better option than the powders and "Ensure" and all that other crap out there, even if there are "high" quality options....cows milk might be better than that stuff in relative terms....of course there are PLENTY of high protein natural plant based whole food choices that contain tons of protein.....which should be really the "go to" rather than these highly processed products...
Now I’m absolutely, totally confused! My doctor lectured me on increasing my protein to prevent age related sarcopenia. I can’t read studies and I’m not a nutritionist. I rely on my doctor for diet recommendations. When I argue I get plenty of protein on a plant based diet, he directs me to numerous studies showing the benefits of increased protein. And now your video has numerous studies showing the opposite. Who am I supposed to believe!
It will depend on the quality of the studies and how these studies measure out in the larger scheme of studies.
Body builders are laughin😅😅😅😅😅g
I’d just maintain the higher protein intake, because the potential negative health consequences of increasing protein intake (in the context of a generally health dietary pattern) are minuscule in comparison to the negative health consequences of sarcopenia. The general scientific consensus seems to be that as you age, it is beneficial to slightly increase protein intake (hence why it is in most International dietary recommendations).
I respect Dr Greger, and the idea definitely warrants further study. But the whole concept is pretty insignificant in the when you zoom out.
I think it’s best to not stress out, and to just make consistent healthy choices - with a few treats here and there to maintain happiness :)
"you dont want doctors as your friend" Dr John McDougall
" I rely on my doctor for diet recommendations, Who am I supposed to believe?"
Already certainly not the vast majority of doctors, here is why:
ruclips.net/video/Z84_LwPzAKw/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/5ZbQvTxYYf8/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/_7QJJl_Msfw/видео.html
Protein by itself won't build any more muscle because you need a stimulus to make new muscles. You've got to incorporate resistance training to get the benefit of adding new muscle tissue and increasing strength. Yeah, if you just consume more protein and don't do weight training, nothing happens. The same thing even applies to anabolic steroids. You can't just take them and sit on your couch and expect to look like Arnold. I've been vegan for 6 years, and at 54, I'm stronger now than I was at 34 because I increased my protein and added weight training together.
Exactly true. If you want to design a study or studies showing no effect what so ever on protein intake related to muscle retention or increase, simply have all your study subjects or observational participants not exercise at all.
It is the easiest thing to do really.
And as you mention it applies also to steroids
I put on weight to accomplish it but really my best lifts were in that 55 year old range which actually lasted until about the age of 65 or so. Yes more than ever at that age.
I am vegan now about 35 years.
I did have to up my protein at around 67 or so to stop declines. I now five or so years later seem to be improving over that at 67.
I assume I was protein deficient for a while at that time.
Hard to say as covid may have exasperated it somewhat at 67.. I cannot say definitively.
But nevertheless strength is increasing for about a two years now. When I started to increase protein at that age I just felt like superman in the gym.
Exactly and I'm sure you train with intensity in the gym. Anecdotal as it may be....Adding 2.5lbs to a lift isn't going to do a thing to stimulate muscle growth. We need overload. None of these studies addressed this.
@@NewEnglandInSeattle You get better results when you resistance train but anabolic steroids will absolutely build muscle even without training
" I increased my protein and added weight training together."
Then why do you think you know the protein helped...? TO know it, first you must do just the resistance training without the extra protein, measure your gains, and then do the same but adding extra protein, compare results...
Now, because you added both together, you are not in a position to know if extra protein helps to you. But thanks to reasearch studies, we would do best basing our opinion on the fact such studies do not show that adding extra protetin to weight training helps.
Unless you present better evidence, I find much more convincing the studies showing extra protetin offers no benefits but some risks.
You gain roughly 1lbs of lean muscle mass per week on 600mg of exogenous testosterone, *without* doing any exercise at all.
How long that'll last is unclear (at least 12 weeks) and you indeed will never look like Arnold.
It is obviously not advised to take any T without doctor supervision.
Excess protein does not help, it hurts. Another excellent debunk from Dr Greger. You might say he's the debunk-King.
Yep also see Valter Longo on this topic.
And Dr Dudley Lamming at University of Wisconsin.
Thanks for sharing this. The bottom line is: eat real food, don’t waste money on protein supplements, exercise and enjoy life 😍
Hi Dr Greger, thanks for sharing your knowledge and putting together all the evidence out there. There’s a recent interview by Huberman Lab with Dr Gabrielle Lyon that’s advocated for higher protein intake for longevity and maintaining muscle mass. Will be interesting to hear a healthy debate from both camps as a form of education.
huberman is a guy who eats butter because he thinks that he has to eat cholesterol to produce testosterone. 5 minutes of googling would've told him that people produce all cholesterol they need and that vegans have higher testosterone levels than cholesterol eaters. basically he is spreading dangerous misinformation.
that debate may well never happen. Unfortunately.
who is interested in debate with uninformed party? huberman promotes eating butter because he thinks that dietary cholesterol is required for testosterone production. 5 minutes of googling would tell him that human body produces all cholesterol it needs and that vegans have higher testosterone levels.
@@ilonabaier6042 who is interested in debate with uninformed party? huberman promotes eating butter because he thinks that dietary cholesterol is required for testosterone production. 5 minutes of googling would tell him that human body produces all cholesterol it needs and that vegans have higher testosterone levels.
Wow! Once again you used hard science and research to debunk something they were starting to convince me (against my personal observations) about! Thank-you, Dr. Gregor!
Thanks for tackling this subject. I've been concerned about my protein intake since I hit 60, but I feel confident now in just sticking to my strength training 3x/week.
Very interesting and helpful! As a menopausal female trying to stave off the negative effects. Thx
Found your channel from Goobie and Doobie..
Oh good. I recently went down the protein rabbit hole and am finding it very difficult to achieve 100-plus grams a day as a vegetarian. I remembered Dr. McDougall would bring it up sometimes and say not to worry so much about that. It can be confusing for sure. For a while I will try to hit that mark as I am in the process of recovering from open heart surgery and both the nutritionist and Nurse Practitioner at Cleveland Clinic told me to mind my protein intake for a while.
Its impossible to achieve with food source only vegan,nonvegans both
Strength training for the win! The only thing I would like to add to this research would be whether micro biome enhancement could enhance absorption, since it seems, they are not even absorbing the protein that they’re eating in the first place
I work out. Probably more than most. I turn 57 next month. I've been a vegan for more than 30 years. Since increasing my protein intake via beans (including black, lentils, soy) and homemade seitan mixed with black beans, I have enjoyed greater well being. I recover better from my exercise. I have lower food cravings and have an easier time maintaining a healthy weight. I have never been a fan of protein powders as they have no fiber and my body didn't seem to digest them properly. That said at 76kgs bodyweight, I eat a minimum of 100gr per day of protein and often get up into the 120'-130s. I prefer to keep my fat intake low and focus on eating quality carbs and protein from food sources. Yes, resistance training builds and maintains muscles. That should be obvious. 2000 kcal of Cantaloupe has 50 grams of protein. I love cantaloupe. I really do. But there is not enough protein in cantaloupe. 2000 kcal or lentils has 160 grams of protein. I love lentils too. A diet of cantaloupe and lentils could easily provide over 100 grams of protein per day. 2000 kcal of Tempeh has well over 200grams of protein. You get the idea. Would love to see studies on higher protein diets of people eating whole plant foods.
Kind of contradicts a lot of the research findings out there. For example, according to a 2017 meta-analysis (DOI: 10.3945/ajcn.116.143594) of 17 RCT's: "Compared with resistance exercise training alone, protein supplementation combined with RET may have a stronger effect in preventing aging-related muscle mass attenuation and leg strength loss in older people". In 2018 a meta-analysis of 49 studies (DOI: 10.1136/bjsports-2017-097608): "Dietary protein supplementation significantly enhanced changes in muscle strength and size during prolonged RET in healthy adults." Also, Veronese et al. (2019) - "Effect of dietary supplementation with protein on muscle mass and strength: a meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials". This study found that dietary protein supplementation significantly increased muscle mass and strength in older adults, particularly when combined with resistance training. These meta-analyses generally support the importance of adequate protein intake for maintaining muscle mass and function, especially in older adults. They suggest that protein intake above the current RDA, particularly when combined with resistance exercise, can be beneficial for preventing sarcopenia and maintaining or increasing muscle mass and strength.
@@IanRushtonMusic dr gregor and vegans are very biased on many things.even in his many vdos ,he deliberately skips non vegan things showing b3nefits but slide shows.he cherry picks data.
Just, WOW! And that's why we appreciate Dr. Greger so much! Now excuse me while I go to the gym.
I'm really grateful for this video which makes me feel better about not eating a ton of protein. I do lift weights, which seems to be working to regaining some of my lost muscle.
Protein along isn't going to slow muscle loss, but weight training will.
Exercise itself alone considered will not stop muscle loss... How that?
Many anorexics related to their disorder are also exercise maniacs. They steadily lose weight and muscle despite some of them exercising all day every day if they can.
One YT fitness guy died three years ago from that sort of thing. He was out of the Uk and a young guy mid twenties famous in the community.
He was not thin but exercised manically and only slept about 3 hours a night. He was probably by BMI normal weight but tried to maintain a abnormally low body fat so excluded mostly things like fat.
So he died of a heart attack related to heart failure, his heart muscle had deteriorated.
Point is it is the whole of it, diet exercise sleep and rest.
@@ronhumphreys3762 You are pointing to extremists, people who are nothing like you or me.
Excellent info.. thanks so much!
I'm suspicious of advice coming from the fitness industry. I've noticed they don't differentiate between strength, muscle size and lean mass. I think they are biased toward protein supplements, weight training and fitness mumbo jumbo. I'm 79, and my Tanita tells me things haven't changed much in thirty years, without high doses of protein or a gym.. I only do pushups and body weight exercises with maybe 70-80 units per day of protein and look pretty much what I did thirty years ago, except more grey hair.
Well done, hope I can be like that someday too.
According to Effect of Protein Supplementation Combined with Resistance Training on Muscle Mass, Strength and Function in the Elderly: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis by L Hou etc, they stated clearly that the muscles are stronger when combining protein with training. Yes, it ended with "no improvement in muscle function" but that should not be the emphasis. Reason 1, muscle function (gait speed, time up and go test, chair rise time, stair climb test, SPPB (Short Physical Performance Battery)) are a expression of multiple factors, one of which includes habits. Yes, habits. Should we expect someone with a small increase in strength suddenly start moving faster? No, because they are used to whatever speed they use before, consciously or subconsciously to prevent injury. Point is that we need to do longer lile 6 months+ studies to see people changing their habits.
Another thing to mention is grip strength is one of the key variables for predicting longevity, which "handgrip strength increased by 0.29 kg (95% CI: 0.08, 0.50; P=0.008)" as quoted from the study. So the participants were getting stronger grip strength, which we can predict to correlate to longer lifespan.
How do you pick all these papers and yet arrive at such a negative conclusion is beyond me.
Thank God for that, sick of stuffing myself.
i didn't supplement with protein isolates for years but after adding a teaspoon of creatine i tried it, eventually landing at three tbsp/day (one per meal) and found it did add a few lbs of muscle mass but mostly my body became happier with the rebalance of macros in terms of digestion, satiation, stool consistency and regularity - plus we shouldn't be dismissive of increasing the body's ability to retain water when doing large amounts of cardio/resistance exercise, even with the added water retention i still need to drink a sports drink after getting super sweaty (which is almost daily), so the increased water storage creates a buffer for electrolyte depletion. this is a personal account, ymmv
don't need the salt
@@redguru1 before learning my lesson (i learn everything the hard way) about the dangers of dehydration i had a no oil, no added sugars, no added salt policy, which served me well for years but since my scary event i found there is something about the electrolyte recipe used by athletes that my body needs as well - maybe after the summer heat i will play around with the ratios but for now i just drink the drink and live with the salt chemically film it leaves in my mouth
@@ronviers how do you know it's "it" did and not something else? what was your control group, lol
@@SergePavlovsky rebalancing my macros with the protein isolates and took a long time (more than a year) and it was feedback from digestion, satiation, stool consistency and regularity mentioned above that i used to arrive that the three tbs (one per meal) - you don't need a control group to pay attention to those things. as for the muscle mass, my exercise regimen preceded the introduction of creatine and proteins and the increase followed in time - so correlated at least. that said, it's a personal anecdote, i would be skeptical too if someone else said it
@@ronviers without control group you can't prove causality. i.e. all you have is irrelevant anecdote
I don't think the gym bros are ready to hear this
Also see Dr. Christopher Gardner on this topic.
Ahh just spent so much energy trying to up my protein lately, first i heard lower was better for longevity, then i heard that the female specific studies show our bodies work differently and we ought to be chugging it back as we get older. Thank you so much as always, please could you consider including in your videos the gender of participants as much as possible so i can rest assured things are relevant to me, been flip-flopping way too much recently. (I have been interested in fasting benefits for years but now i'm hearing the evidence is contradictory for women?)
I’ve been waiting for this one!
Thank you Dr. G. 👍👍👍
P.S. What about in the case of Cancer Cachexia “ - the same?? As long as eating healthy amounts of plants and calories?
Really big if true. But seriously, this might be busting one of the biggest beliefs (myths?) in nutrition
Is there one like this for non-elderly? Fitness circles claim upwards of a gram of protein per pound and that's quite ridiculous.
Thank you for this really useful summation of the current research. This is really helpful for me personally and I will share with others who I think would benefit also.
Thank you for this very informative, important and well presented video
😂Oh my! This study certainly is building muscle ..fonger and jaw muscle.. Play nice! Shouldnt the concern about consuming heavy metals worry everyone here? Thank you for your consideration. Dr G. you rock!
Protein marketing is ridiculous.
I cringed when my neighbor came home with a humongous jar of protein to lose weight (esp since his Mom passed away due to kidney failure).
Thanks.
Physionic has a video out today saying that there is a correlation between creatine supplementation and muscle mass/strength for age related sarcopenia.
A good video his lead in was a bit bait and switch though. He seemed to be only speaking about bone density but then got into muscles.
You should check his cited sources if you're unsure.
Youlll break the internet if you make a video specifically for weightlifting and protein
Thanks Dr G.
Dr. Greger I hope you will comment on Dr. Peter Rogers assertion that increased protein intake leads to decrease in longevity.
I think both are mostly on the same track (base on Dr. Gregor's video on increasing longevity by decreasing methonine (which happens to be less in plant-based protein).
Great stuff! Thank you, Doctor!
Im 61 and take half of my protein in the form of powder. I eat meat only a few times per month, and I eat beans regularly. I also take amino acid supplements. But I also exercise, ride a bike, and hit the gym 3-4 times a week. I don't have a muscle mass loss problem.
That's a lot of protein. What's your A1c?
I think the answer is somewhere in the middle. I think everyone agrees resistance training needs to happen. If you are not doing that your intake can be on the low end. If you are an older adult, over 50, and doing 2-3 days of resistance training and you are working to failure in the gym, your daily protein intake should be higher. Timing is also very important and most importantly you should track how your body responds.
I think timing is of more importance if someone is at competition level.
Misleading article. Anabolic steriods to increase muscle mass without resistance training period. Male kids put on loads of muscle during pubity even without resistance training due to surge in testosterone. That been said protein is needed to build muscle upon resistance training.
Excellent I guess that answers the question " Where do you get your protein from?"
Per Cronometer, a large watermelon (15" long x 7.5" dia) has 27.6g protein, 323g net carbs, 6.8g fat and 1355 kcals.
of course the curious follow up question is....than what option is there to help with building muscle or retain muscle mass? Although the answer wasn't stated in the vid, if you look at the description, he does refer us to "creatine" and some of his prior vids on the subject matter......I seem to remember these to some degree in that creatine can help, but I think there were some side effects .....but don't take my word go check out his prior vids if interested to get the full low down on it........he puts the links next to the vids next to his reference to creatine.......good luck!
The only side effect know from creatine is a increase in body weight. It is typical to add about five pounds or so as it causes it is thought increased water retention in muscles.
It does not add up or compound but initially it typically does and it will remain till one stops.
Exercise
Do the proper workout and recovery, get enough sleep, eat healthy foods so none of your metabolic cycle is limited, drink enough water. Pretty much it. People want something to give them the results that they don't want to work for.
I love this channel!
what about when you add testosterone (in those who have been shown to have low levels or low free/bioavailable levels) , protein and resistance training? Do these people subjectively feel better? While not objective, the subjective sensation of feeling better may be a good metric for people as well. While I understand the studies I do not think they tell the whole story in a real clinical setting with individuals outside of the population models typically discussed.
So ... based on this, can you conclude that muscle growth has less to do with protein availability - or is it possible that the studies failed to include an ongoing analysis of protein consumed vs protein digested? Anecdotally, I'm 72 y.o. and suffer from lower energy states if I'm exercising with hypertrophy in mind during my resistance workouts. If I supplement with HCl, I experience much more stability and can keep going longer. How about trials of seniors where the stool is frequently analyzed to answer questions about protein ingested vs protein digested? At the least, I'd like to see results from seniors who are diagnosed as protein deficient, who received supplementation with amino acids (wouldn't that theoretically remove any concerns about absorption?)
Interesting thought
You may find this AI generation interesting.
"Role of Leucine: Leucine is an essential amino acid that significantly influences muscle protein synthesis through its action on the mTOR (mammalian target of rapamycin) pathway. For optimal stimulation of muscle protein synthesis, elderly individuals should aim for about 3 g of leucine per meal, alongside 25-30 g of high-quality protein.
Supplementation Studies: Clinical studies indicate that leucine supplementation can enhance muscle mass and strength in older adults when combined with adequate dietary protein intake. For instance, administering around 6 g/day of L-leucine has shown improvements in functional performance and preservation of lean mass."
Lucine is typically found in higher amounts in meats dairy and such, but isolated soy protein contains similar amounts. It can also be found as a supplement in a powder or pill if vegan.
Thank you so very much for this video. I've been to the London Graphic Store and I always call in at Cass Art (unmissable!). I'll take this video with me next trip to the big smoke! ❤
👏👏👏👏👏 excellent 👍👍👍...iam speechless...i am waiting fitness PhD s and gurus try to debunk all this studies...and its a lot and very in detail analysing... thanks uncle Mike... love from Greece 🇬🇷🏆❤️🙏
These studies evaluate the effect of dietary protein intake on muscle size of (from my understanding) elderly adults who are not weight training. But what do the studies say about how protein intake impacts muscle growth (hypertrophy) in weight training young or middle-age adults?
A good meta analysis not to long ago showed when under stress which may be from various forms to include exercise, which is a form of stress, muscle mass was retained and/or increased when protein amounts were in the higher range.
My counters will be censored out here so will not bother to find it but you can, it is published and available.
If I look for the answer to the original question it appears that adding protein to the diet beyond the rda does NOT slow muscle loss. Nowhere in the original question does it ask whether protein makes a difference if you perform weight bearing exercise. Once I listened a couple of times I carved out references to exercise in any of the studies and focused on outcomes when adding proteins and nothing else. I would like to hear about studies on how protein affects muscle mass AND lean muscle in older adults who do exercise. Does additional protein make a difference in the rebuilding of muscle fibers , muscle mass or lean muscle.
Protein is a vital and necessary building block. The amount is dependent not only on your body weight but your muscle weight and activity level.
Yes, but the amount needed is less than that claimed by dairy, meat, egg and body building counsels.
@@jaym9846 Yes it probably is but still more than a vegetarian diet can provide.
You mentioned that we should eat .8 g of protein for every kg of healthy body weight. I am currently overweight and keep finding conflicting information on how much protein to eat. Should I eat .8g for my goal weight or my current weight? I exercise daily and do strength training 3 days/week (in case that makes a difference). Thank you.
According to Prof Chris Gardner (he did the twin study), the RDA of 0.8g/kg covers ~95% of adult in US, thus most are likely already getting 2X. And according to Gardner, most American are already consuming nearly 2X of RDA, even without taking supplements.
Resistance training stimulates your body to build or create more glycogen, a storage form of sugar in your muscle.
The tricky part is how much your body needs in using protein and glucose to create it.
I don't know if this is the best place to ask this question, but it has to with a nutrient that slows aging called pentadecanoic acid C15. Do you have any information or opinions about this fatty acid? And, if you think it is worth adding to a person's diet, what is the best source? It seems as if the highest amounts of it are in animal products, and usually only occurs in trace quantities in a few plant foods. Also, there isn't much of a selection of supplements.
Doesn’t matter too much how much protein you’re eating above the RDA if you’re not doing resistance training. 🏋🏼♀️
Body can't store excess amino acids. Excess are broken down and neutralized by using the calcium from one's bones.
Cure for Sarcopenia Syndrome muscle loss with pain ! What is the prevention or cure regime that anyone has tired ? Does anyone have any info about it ?
Believe the guy who gives the money from his videos and books to charity. (Dr. Michael Greger)
Why are findings by sports scientists so different from these? It's simply a fact that muscle growth doesn't happen without protein synthesis. So the amount you need is going to vary with how much work your muscles are doing that your body has to adapt to. There is no concession to that in any of these studies nor in Dr. Gregor's summary. He's been beating this drum for quite a while but not at all convincingly.
We deserve and need studies on women, including elders. Women are not men. Women have different musculature. We are not smaller men.
Thank you!
I’m so confused. My fibromyalgia Dr., along with menopause experts, urge me to get more protein, but these studies suggest it doesn’t matter. After menopause, should we still strive for .8 g per lb of body weight, or just stop being concerned about protein altogether? I really appreciate the meta analysis, btw!
thats 0.8gr per kg not per lb
RET resistance exercise training is the priority
Unless you're a fruitarian or otherwise eating a very limited diet, it's very unlikely that you're not consuming enough protein. Neither of those experts are nutrition specialists, so I would not worry about their nutrition advice. Unfortunately doctors in general know very little about the health effects of food, even within their area of expertise. You go to doctors for meds, surgery and diagnostics, not dietary advice.
If you have a question about your docs dietary advice do not be silly about this.
You ask the doc for a referral to a specialist in nutrition.
You do not read things on YT comment sections or even base things on what you may see.
Do you know this fellow here does not have a specialty in nutrition this video guy here?
He does not, he is a md same as your doc. Studies abound hard to say what is right or wrong. Which is why if we have a nutritional problem, we consult with a for pay medical specialist who has qualifications.
They do not work for free and we should not expect that. What is the value of things freely given away???
How much of this did you pay for this here?
@@k.h.6991 Well said. There's enough to worry about without obsessing over protein intake. You just need enough and no more.
Thomas DeLaur's audience will never believe it, no matter how thoroughly researched and well proven.
bravo, have we done studies with protein in an animal/plant matrix ? (whole food )
Dr. Greger, is there some counterpart to you providing ExerciseScienceFacts, i.e., relevant evidence-based results from exercise science research and what it means for an individual from someone who isn't hawking a supplement or a fitness course?
Two exercise RUclips channels that I like are “Bob & Brad” and “HT Physio”. Both base their videos on exercise science.
yup.
Old people in the study with additional protein didn't gain muscle over those who without additional protein maybe because they didn't lift as heavy as they can? Maybe they didn't push themselves harder during exercise? Maybe they just exercise like they normally would. And what if they not digesting or absorbing much of the additional of protein because of less stomach acid and weaker intestine?
So, is doctor Rhonda Patrick wrong? She, along with her expert guests say the complete opposite. Who's right?
Actual studies involving many people, over opinions, all day everyday.
@@iamcosmicdude All the YT influencers produce studies to back up their claims, hardly a one does not. A very few the odd bunch perhaps we could say ,they do not. Some say they just feel better or holy or some other nonsense ,but all the real ones do.
WE are forced to read studies ourselves or to compare enough of them with a emphasis on scientists, those credentialed in the field of nutrition, and compare findings.
Cherry picking is the name of this game and headline titles to inspire the views.
I summarily discard those influencers saying absurd things...take this thing follow this diet, you will not die. you will not get sick ever as it saves time.
But that comes with experience.
Patrick is certainly wrong imo. She's heavily biased towards animal foods
@@NonchalantWalrusParty I think she has a unconscious bias, which occasionally but rarely shows in her videos.
But to the inverse this study nutrition, is her academic field of study and she has participated in the conduction of nutritional research study.
This guy here the narrator, is a medical doc with no specialty in nutrition nor study participation experience.
His grandmom had cardia disease and was saved by the Pritikin diet. Which is great for those with that.
@@ronhumphreys3762 If you've followed him over the years, it is a bit weird to suggest he isn't a nutrition specialist. The amount of studies he has read on the topic of nutrition is probably the equivalent of like 5+ research PHDs. Participating in doing an actual study doesn't make you know more than anyone else, except in what it is subjectively like to do a study.
So cool!
Dr Baker will tell us we need to strenght train with proper protein to get best results.
Thank you!
I would bet good money that the missing link is this is the intensity of the exercise and how that correlates to protein need. Basically the harder you are working during exercise and also throughout they day, the more protein you need. If you are doing some light to medium weight training then you can probably get away with the standard protein intakes. It's really when you start getting into the HIIT training or very heavy maximal lifts that you are going to need extra protein.
I suspect you’re right. It’s maddening how there’s never any true specifics about what the resistance training programs looked like so often.
Exactly
I see people at the gym every day. they are at the gym but really the phone is the thing not the work out.
But I am certain they say to others..hit they gym two hours today, here is my selfie.
Protein is not a thing to them standard diet is fine.
@@ronhumphreys3762 I mean tbf there’s some valid reasons to take longer rest times
@@NoPlanNoProb I rest plenty between sets. But the thing is if you focus on the phone you are not going to put out 100%.
Go to a gym a real gym with real lifters, there are few to none using phones in between sets.
You are at the gym you do the gym not your phone. No one with any believability nor credentials does not say that. If you have a personal trainer, I have never seen one allowing that excepting a emergency.
That is the faint red line saying your work out is real or not.
Sorry it is.
@@ronhumphreys3762 yea that’s fair
Remember: Every living organism has protein; that includes anything you eat (as long as it was alive at some point) 😉
No you need to exercise continuously using progressive overload and maybe HIIT on some days.
What about in young people?
Too much protein is harmful. Look up the side effects of too much protein.
It matters a lot in young people, the 1g/lb of BW is likely over kill
Mother's milk only has 6% to 8% protein by calories and this is enough to grow humans at their fasting rate!
Human milk has the lowest protein of all primates.
Interesting. But what is about this "nurses health study"? Those who ate more protein seemed to live longer?
It's logical for the body to detach the muscles when you get old because muscles are high-maintenance tissues and add load on your body functions. Your body is saying, "If you don't use it, simply you lose it so we can do better and go lightweight."
Well bleh. So many health gurus are pimping high protein right now. Thanks doc!
I would love for Layne norton to comment on this...
Ha! Indeed. I’d be curious to hear what he’d have to say.
@@arambarsamian6312 agreed
Me = 59 yo, 190lbs, very active, lift weighs, etc. So.... 50 = too little. Over 100 = too much. Moderation of about 75 = a perfect balance 😊 between Gregor vs dozens of others.
thats 0.8gr per kg not per lb.
The older individuals in the first study weren't strength training. To suggest that muscle mass doesn't increase during strength training is frankly absurd. Liver swelling? For real?
Thank you so much
I’m confused. This video suggests in virtually all ways you could test added protein with older ppl had no significant effect and if it did it was with resistance training. However there has been a lot of papers and evidence that looking at adding more protein to older ppl who even Dr Luongo’s master thesis is “add more protein as you get older and older ppl don’t utilize protein like when they’re younger.” Even his life’s work says that. I’m a bit confused. Logically if the older we get the less we utilize protein and the older we get the less muscle and frailty we inherently get, and we know you need protein to build and spare muscle wasting/loss when we have too little protein. Again, what am I missing?
I suspect muscle loss and frailty with age has more to do with changes in activity to maintain muscle and strength.
The studies showing no effect of protein consumption among the elderly typically they include little to none of resistance training.
If you want to design a study which does not show any effect of protein upon muscle retention or growth, simply have your study group do no exercise.
Confusing lean body mass with organ size is honestly a new wrinkle for me but....all the studies that I find hold merit the measure of sarcopenia is not lean muscle mass analysis but grip or other strength measure.
Quite definitively adequate protein must be provided when one is exercise to reap benefits expected.
Eat more protein and exercise more. That is a fact
Don't buy into the norm of "taking it easy" in retirement. Those who sit around eating danish and complaining about the gov't will surely have a shorter lifespan. Get active and eat healthy
But some of these studies are based on Whey, what about plant based protein?
Hmm... Imagine that.....More protein can lead to kidney / liver problems......... Know your body. Great video.
Show the study. More protein is indeed detrimental if one has active kidney and liver disease, causing it?
Show the studies? I will only fathom one option here. Increased size of organs, muscles and skin are organs and parts of organs, indicates often proper hydration status which assists functional ability. .
Спасибо!💚💛❤
Commercial companies in action - everyone is obsessed with high protein haha. Crucial nutrient but needed only in small amounts. Sorry to burst everyone's bubble.
Fitness Industry will deny that and mass media won't tell anyone
Why all the tests are done on men, but results assuming that it applies for men and women
Some whey protein contains IGG antibodies that may help those who are immunocompromised.
Your math is adding up. You stated .8 grams per healthy pound of body weight. Then you say 50 grams. .8 × 200 lbs. Equals 160 grams. What am I missing?
makes sense. if huge amounts of protein made people gain muscle but not fat, then we’d be seeing a lot more people with body-builder physiques. Alas.
Studies also show that despite following his own advice, Dr Gregor looks 20 years older than he actually is.
Uh......have you seen him move? He's quick and agile, not at all like the folks I know that are his age.
Always love your info. I do remember reading a study on older men taking collagen protein where they gained more muscle then placebo. What about HRT/TRT which is all the trend at the moment
Hah just my personal observation. When dietary fasting intermittently was the thing thought to lead to longevity I thought to myself Theravadan monks only eat one meal a day and that typically in the middle of the day or morning.
So it works they would live longest...but they do not. Nothing by study suggested that.
Now Attia and some others are saying max Vo2 is the thing. But I look around at those who are 100 or older how many are doing HIT to get you that.....zero.
I do it but really it is for function not expected longevity benefit, and I have done it for decades. My HIT is punching drills and kicking drills on the heavy bag.
It helps I went for a jog yesterday after a big lay off due to a injury now healed....I was about as I was when jogging regularly.
So it helps functionally to live longer, I say not.
Mostly those people if they do anything they do it casually and lightly. The 122 year old french woman, she used to ride her bike through town pretty daily, she was not a bike racer.
Collagen I am vegan for less harm so will not take it. But is is comprised by 19 amino acids. Here are the most important ones in it.
" The Big 3 Amino Acids in Collagen
The three most common amino acids in collagen are:
glycine
Proline
Hydroxyproline
These three amino acids make up approximately 50% of the amino acid profile of collagen and play a crucial role in providing structure and strength to the body."
I do take glycine and some other things to substitute. So if vegan I would not worry that could be worked around, aminos vegan all can be found.
Exercise just might influence the growth of muscle mass. It's hard to develop your abs whilst setting on your ass.