For me it was Baldur's Gate 2 because I was 12 and I was playing a dual wielding ranger with full plate armor. And still I made it through Underdark, which I still don't know how I did. But then my Drow equipment disintegrated and I quit. Yes. I grew up hard.
I had an easier time with BG2 simply because I played Icewind Dale before it. I in fact couldn't finish the last final fight in BG1 until Icewind Dale taught me how to actually build characters and most basically, how to use spells properly. Most of BG1 (without the expansions,) you can get through just flailing about and not really knowing what you're doing. It doesn't really prepare you for that final battle.
This game was hard for me because of all the spell protections. And to be honest, I'm not a big fan of the real time with pause system. I know you can set it up to pause every round, but those combat messages still go awfully fast. So I always struggled in bringing down defenses. And don't get me started on that red dragon. It was always a pain to get through his defenses.
I'd be interested to see you do a video on the strategies that you feel translate well between CRPGs - heard you say a few times that once you learn how to play one game well, it makes others a lot easier. Would be interested to hear you talk more on that. (Also would love a Pathologic 2 review!)
If I hadnt played D&D 3.5 I dont think I'd have given Kingmaker a chance. But in CRPGs I think that a common strategy is initiative and CC. Specially if the game allows surprise rounds. It is super reliable.
Surprised Age of Decadence isn't there. But UnderRail is there so that's cool. I still can't fight those invisible scorpions-like crawlers effectively, no matter what builds or tools in my inventory. I've heard stories about Wizardry 4-The Return of Werdna. Scary stories... like it's "for veteran Wizardry players" which is already far from easy games.
yea, AoD belongs here ^^ And I would say that Wizardry 7 is a lil harder than w4 for one simple reason : If you started back then like me, and had no clue that there are real parties competing with you for the map parts you can reaaaaly eff yourself over ^^
@@DawnOfMutilation oh yeah I remember Wizardry 7 - every guide is a wall of text because game is non-linear and hard. Mostly time consuming - playing without guide will take months or 200h.
@@joshuagorman2191 It's designed to force you to trial and error your way through. It's pretty frustrating design to be sure, but the game at least has a lot of stuff going on, even if its *super* rough around the edges. I like the idea of a highly charismatic merchant just snake oiling his way through an entire chapter without fighting anything personally. Underrail is the same way, but its actually not nearly as difficult as many would have you believe. Once you know how crafting works you're like halfway to being able to just steamroll the game. It also gets infinitely easier with metagame knowledge.
It has flaws for sure but there's more good ideas in there than bad. Personally I think the magic crafting system is among the best I've seen in any game.
I wanted to like it, but I just can't get into it. It's too political for me, and the whole premise of being a lapdog of this superdupervillain is off-putting. Also, I don't like that you have to roll a spellcaster class or you will struggle.
@@maverick9370 the gameplay is boring and there is barely any theorycrafting. I don't even know what's the game is doing in this list. Same for dos1, it's just extremely easy? I guess he didn't play a lot of crpg lol
Underrail is just insane (and that's coming from a guy with vids of one turning the final boss). The game is pretty relentless all the way through and very few builds, if any, can cover all bases; this makes it really fun to experiment
It's tough, but the freedom you have really allows you to eventually find a way to overcome that challenge. When I tried the Tyranny act 1 boss fight mentioned in this video, I just had absolutely nothing to do except bash my head against a wall over and over. So it's a good kind of difficulty.
@@garmfilf2789 You did the puzzle? I don't know, the last boss is still pretty much on par on the difficulty level of everything else that you face until then, even if you don't complete the puzzle that weakens it. The only real difficulty spike I saw was the Depot A area, after that, everything was manageable, even if somewhat frustrating sometimes.
@@scullyy No, it's not. Yes, it's not a lack of options like in the first act of Tyranny, but Underrail is built on meta-knowledge, it doesn't offer challenges to overcome, but puzzles to solve.
@@panquecaaladacomcreme You think? The last dungeon is a nightmare with enemies that never stop respawning and the last boss... I don't remember if I did the puzzle. Been a few years since I played it, but I do remember being very upset with that thing lol. I did manage to beat the game btw, but with another save.
Still my favorite part of every morning watching your content! Great vid! Have you thought about playing Outer Wilds? Story/puzzle game with lots of high praise and awards
Went all the way to the end boss in underrail with a Spearman tank grenadeer, ended up giving up on the last boss. There is a puzzle you can do to make it easier, but the puzzle itself is crazy and I calculated that i simply would not be strong enough even should I do the puzzle. I told myself that even getting that far with a gimped build was an accomplishment. Have completed it with an assault rifle commando. Such a fun time
I think Baldur's Gate 1 is pretty hard, but mainly because how easily you can die in the early game, especially if you play a squishier class. If you're playing a mage, even with high constitution, you can get taken out by one magic missile. You basically had to have the shield spell up all the time, if you forget or if the spell wears off or gets dispelled, you'll die faster than you realize.
Yeah, much of that is just AD&D at low levels. BG1 lets you get yourself in trouble because of how quickly it throws you into the open world and how slow they decided to make early leveling; compare that to Icewind Dale which despite being a harder game has a much faster and smoother start. The counterpoint to the early game difficulty is that the level 1 spell Sleep is an "I win" button for a large chunk of the game.
I'm still on the character creation screen. Been trying since 1998 to roll a 100. Haven't done it yet but looking forward to playing the game when I do. Reroll!
@treeghettox BG1. You spend so much time at low levels that Sleep is an encounter winning ability for a large part of the base game. It's still good at low levels in IWD but you level so quickly in that game that if you're playing a sorcerer you might even consider skipping Sleep altogether since it doesn't have any effect on creatures with 5 HD or higher.
Excellent list. I agree with you on all of those. I was surprised not to see BG1 on there. Man, that game will absolutely beat you down if you happen to walk up on a..I think they are called a Doom Warden..or something like that. Or even a Winter Wolf that lands one of those Frost Breaths. OH, those stupid bandit archers that shoot those cold arrows. Your front line is dead before they can cross the distance.
@MortismalGaming Interesting that UnderRail made it.. and most of arguments for it also apply to Age of Decadence, especially the 'unforgiving' part. I found both on similar level, except AoD combat is even more high-stakes. And player can actually die on numerous occasions in dialogue :P I know you did play AoD, any thoughts why you chose not to include it?
Age Of Decadence really isn't that hard though. Sure it's unforgiving if you try to spread yourself thin, but if you focus your build the way the game tells you it's really not that bad. It's not a game with a complex leveling system or with complex combat. I think it's reputation for being so hard just comes from folks who spread themselves thin first playthrough and needed to restart. Imo Pathfinder Kingmaker is by far the hardest game on this list, the leveling system is very complex and has many non obvious ways to sink your build, and the endgame Wild Hunt enemies punish you more than any other game I've played if you're not prepared for them, plus at the end the game will just kill off most your party if you didn't make specific decisions. It's brutal. I can't even imagine playing through blind or suffering through the highest difficulties
I didn't include AoD because the game very explicitly tells you how to approach it, and it's only really difficult if you deliberately try to do things your character isnt built for.
In Pillars 2 this initial part, in the flooded neighborhood, on PotD difficulty, after the updates, is hell. After I played Kingmaker, especially on Unfair, the other CRPGs turned into a walk in the park. I still want to try UnderRail, even with the save scum concept.
Great game, underail is a very nice experience, and feels immersives. You are all alone, with a certain set of skills, and you can't pick all skills, so you have to make choices, wich mean that the game is build for having multiples solutions for a specific problem, you are not even forced to be good in combat, you could stealth your way and plants some mines that you have crafted.
Bro I haven’t struggled in a game in years like I have at the beginning of Pillars 2. I started on PotD like Mortismal suggested and was salty Lol. I spent days trying to get off the first island and almost quit a few times. I got off of it finally and it felt great, unfortunately those loading screens caused me to quit. They were all 2-7 mins and it would be every time you entered a new area or building it was just too much especially on the old Xbox.
Kingmaker was honestly the biggest pain to try and get through I hated kingdom management I didn’t have combat problems until I got to act 5 then my party just couldn’t hit anything if their life counted on it but the worst part was I play on console and it’s still a buggy mess my saves got corrupted 12 times and I crashed every other hour the other difficult games would be poe and poe 2’s dlc I can fly through the main campaigns but those dlcs just turned the difficulty up when I was not prepared for still probably my favorite series in crpgs
Oof, I'm glad I used bag of tricks to skip kingdom stuff. Played WotR first and crusading was rough especially since it was my first crpg so the combat and builds were already stressing me out.
@@Owl-yc2yu crusade management is way easier then kingdom management the only part I don’t like is the actual battles your army fights where it basically becomes a heroes of might and magic game and some of the map gets blocked off because demons take forts and if ya don’t defend them they come back and reclaim them
Well, Pathfinder, especially as you level up, assumes you're stacking 6-10 buffs on your party, allowing the various different types of bonuses to combine so that you're getting an extra 20 points on your rolls. You can see it baked into the design when your frontline fighters have 40-50 AC while the spell casters are stuck at 15-20. Tightening the bounded accuracy is one thing that D&D 5th edition does over Pathfinder, ensuring that you don't need to drop 10 or 15 spells on your party before a major fight.
Underrail can definitely be played through as basically any build if you know what you are doing and actually somewhat focus the build (hybrid builds are much harder to keep on track depending on how you diversify them) but on easy, normal, and hard you can recover from just about anything using a combination of traps, throwables, and consumable items. The hardest difficulty you need to be focused on a specific direction early (because otherwise you won't kill much) but also need to understand that fights can't be won head on in most cases. Focusing doesn't mean you can't make a hybrid, it just means you need core combat skills at certain levels so you can deal appropriately with the encounter's you are facing or get specific feats as early as possible. If you play through with a "recommended" build the game often isn't that fun in my experience, the tin can assault rifle builds are rather boring, and the real fun comes when you create an archetype you like (like a spear wielding electrokinesis user, or a sniper focusing on mind control). Honestly I'd never play through Underrail without branching out into Psi, as it adds so much flavour to the game (meaning every character I play is a hybrid because I also avoid pure Psi). My favourite memory of the game is with a Hammer focused Muscle Wizard abusing the interaction between Psychokinesis and Strength taking on Balor's crew head on (that's like a good 30-40 enemies) by leading them through a doorway that was trapped to oblivion and crushing their skulls if they managed to make it through. One of the best parts of the game is that build diversity is absolutely a thing for most of the game, and the only place a "bad" build might struggle is on certain parts where you are forced into direct combat against a superior opponent (like the last arena mission). Otherwise CC and alpha striking from stealth can clear most encounter's regardless of your build. It's a lot to take in when you start playing, but definitely not that hard overall, especially when you get creative with combat encounter's. I honestly think Underrail has some of the best CRPG combat in any game out there.
Another quality video! Would love to hear your initial thoughts/impressions on Project Haven, it doesn't have an official release yet but does have a demo available on steam.
The hardest part of beating Original Sin 1 on Hardcore is trying to escape the lava cave at the end of act 2 since if you take to long you will just auto die. Or you might just die because the game decides you will even if you arent actually on the Lava, as was in my case :(
Great Selection :) for me the ultimative Nr. 1 will always be Baldur's Gate 1 as a Mage without any character import or such shenanigans. Welcome to worst attack value, no real weapon proficiencies, 3-4 spells / day and 4 HP xD
Five hardest RPGs: Underrail, Underrail, Underrail, Underrail and Underrail: Expedition. It doesn't even need to be on hardest difficulty to make it to the list
You should give Phantom Doctrine a try at some point in the future, it's from a few years ago now, but is a TTRPG and still holds up quite well. Unfortunately it just came and went and most people forgot about it.
TTRPG : I did not know it was a table top role-playing game (?). I played the entire thing on Hard, including the extension, and almost got all achievements (missing 3 easy ones because I did one single playthrough, which is ironic considering I obtained other ones that only 1% of Steam buyers got). The bio-engineering system is convoluted (used a Steam guide everytime), but otherwise very decent game. Very few people finish it honestly, which is not a great sign, but 75% positive reviews nonetheless.
@@Baraz_Red That's just a typo, thank you very much. Purchasing the MK Ultra facility is something else that actually hinders you because it asks you money to pay for interrogations and executions, even though it is otherwise 100% free if you never unlock it. I think that the problem with people dropping it is that the gameplay is pretty much identical in all 3 campaigns, the only thing that changes is the story being told which can get repetitive.
@@ChaosZero. I did not mind the MK Ultra system, which I seldom used except to make sure my new agents were not enemy moles and for a few quest related task. :P As a completionist, I enjoyed buying every upgrade. The Bio-engineering system, where you inject chemicals in your agents to boost their stats, was a rather complex system (really hard to map out). Notably as the game did not even show you your past injections on an agent. Though perfection was not really necessary to end the game on Hard (perfect bio-chem boosts just made your agents super stronger).
I've played Divinity OS1 and 2 on my own choice then, following Mortym videos Wasteland 3 and I haven''t found any of them too difficult,at least at normal. Followinfg the channel I got intrigued and involved with Pathfinder WOTR and here the problems came out. It's an incredible game, with story, mechanics and a lot of candies compared to similar games. There is a lot of small details in the interface, the UI, the system that make you wonder how much work by the developers is behind such huge project. You feel like your money were really well spent. One silly thing: I would have liked to be able to zoom out while in the campaign map to have a better view, sometimes I got lost on the various paths... However, I didn't had any problems to understand Pathfinder rules and mechanics (even if in same case it has been more dififcult because of what I understood was due to bugs...). I found this game difficult because it does not help you to understand what you should do, what some abilities and spells do, when you should use them ( and they are really a lot!). It does not explain hexes, it soes not tell you how to nbond objects, and so on. I mean, I donìt want a full in game tutorial but at least the basics! Anyway, I'm almost at the end of Act 3 at normal, had to repeat a few times (or ten) some boss fight and I'm enjoining the game. A lot.
Some of mine would be the ones I first played when they came out. The internet wasn't what it is today, so looking up information on how to build characters or how to get through certain scenarios weren't as readily available. Planescape Torment and Baldur's Gate 1 were really hard for me. More recent games would include games that heavily rely on building a "correct' character to get the most out of the game. Games like Atom RPG and Wasteland 2 were very frustrating my first times through. The very hardest games for me though will probably always be Myst and Riven. Took me months and months...Probably the only games I ever had to take extensive notes to get through.
Kingmaker and Pillars of Eternity are some of the best games I have ever played (have not beaten either) and I think they are masterpieces of the genre. I will have to try Tyranny!
Tyranny has an absolutely insane and beautiful magig system, something i hope we will se Obsidian return to one day. It's so well thought out, it makes DnD and Pathfinder look idiotic.
As a crpg baby, I felt a little happy to see Kingmaker on this list, given that it’s the first isometric crpg (and it this point, the only one) that I’ve beaten. Finally giving WotR a go
The best CRPG I ever played, in the terms of immersion/storywise. Also the combat can be very enjoyable, but you must study builds on forums before playing it. While there are plenty of builds that are viable, you need to master the basics of building your char to not suffer. There's a part of the game that's known as "where bad builds die" and it pretty much does what the name says. If you surpass this part, the game opens up a lot. Savescumming is a common pratice, but at least the loading screen is pretty fast.
I gonna say, it's definitely a game that you need to play by it's rules and be cheesy whenever you can. You can't mess around with an ineffective build because otherwise you won't get far. You do feel pretty badass when you get things right though.
I have beaten almost every CRPG there is and this year I finally beat Knightmare for the Amiga. When I was a boy my grandma bought it to me, and the owner warned it was maybe "too hard" so she could return it. That was the only time ever we returned a game to the store. Knightmare is the hardest CRPG I ever played and I can't think of a game that can compare. It's not particularly broken, it is just designed in a way that takes a LOT out of the player. You really have to do a lot of research about how the system works, and even if you do know and run it with maps, walkthrough and strategy tips it's still absurd.
It's been a decade since I played either, but I remember yelling my friend Icewind Dale wasn't fun, it was an exercise in masochism. I think I was discussing 1.
The bit I always get stuck on is taking Caed Nua in PoE. I mean I've done it a few times but it seems to be a huge difficulty spike. Maybe I'm just playing the stupid way 🤷
As someone who knew nothing about how to actually play crpgs until last year DOS 1 was a cakewalk compared to trying to play wotr or pillars 1 just because I actually had some idea of wtf i was doing
DOS1 (EE) imo wasn't too bad on the hardest level and i enjoyed it more than DOS2 (as of Act 2 at least); i did do remember a few tuff fights. I own the others, except UnderRail, but haven't played them yet so hard to say. Thanks for this video.
I wonder why DOS 1 is considered much harder than DOS 2? I went in blind on DOS1 and played on the highest difficulty and I had a blast! It was hard but never unfair. Enemies had +20% more HP and there were more enemies. But the second half of the game were still a breeze. I think I 3-shotted the last boss on my first attempt at fighting him. DOS2 seem much harder. I tried the hardest difficulty for a while, but I had to scale it back one notch because while it was doable I did not have any fun. The modifiers are much larger in DOS2. Enemies get instead of +20%, the get +50%. And they also get +50% extra armor which prevents you from stunning them or stacking effects. In DOS1 it was pretty easy to consistently keep large groups stunned towards the end of the game. I think the enemies also do an extra 50% damage. So DOS2 should be much harder.
Im glad to hear the first part of tyranny is considered somewhat difficult, that game beat my ass to the point i figured i wasnt cut out for this genre
The armour system completely cripples the game and completely took away what made DOS 1 combat Interesting, setting up traps and using the environment, now everything is basically immune to environmental damage and CCs Also physical damage is way too good, you get 3-4 CCs as level 1 spells and warfare counts for everything damage. And the turn based roulette where you and the enemy go in turns is very abusable. Overall DOS2 might be more beginners friendly and polished, but it's combat was a major step down for me
I absolutely disagree. Completed both games on tactic and I don't like DOS2 armor system. But I completely understand why it was made. DOS1 gameplay at some point turns into stunlocking everyone. And the only thing that was stopping player from doing it was stupid spheres with immune auras (that was added in Enhanced Edition if I remember correctly). Armor system may not be the most elegant way to fix it but its much more interesting than spheres. There are some things I don't like in DOS2 (such as full magic or full physic parties being the best options and summoning being opaf) but I don't understand how could anyone consider it being easier than DOS1
@@ПетровичЗомбиI think Dos 2 is difficult for all the wrong reason If you play it like a normal cRPG or strategy game it's gonna be rough, enemies one shot you/cc you no matter how tanky you are(unless you're immune of course) so there is no point of building any defense Once you realize that all that matters is damage the game becomes a cakewalk. Every fight is basically the same and the environment (which was imo the most interesting part of DOS1) barley matter and it's all about killing/disabling whoever goes next in turn or make yourself untouchable after dealing damage (invis/move away enough against melee) It feels difficult because if you mess up and the enemy gets a turn, one of your guy dies. Of course it's all subjective and overall DOS2 is a more pleasant game to play. It's just the combat is kinda meh when it comes down to it
@@disk3001 You probably know this but if you're on Steam, there are overhaul mods. Currently using "Divinity Unleashed" and it removes the status effect gate you have with armor. It's an overhaul mod though, so not for everyone and certainly not a desireable method for somepeople (since it's a mod) Edit: CC is also different (i.e. knockdown doesn't disable a turn etc.)
I always enjoy the difficulty that allows me to play the party that I enjoy the concept of, and is tuned well for them. I've never enjoyed beating the hardest difficulty in games if it just forces you into playing a very specific and plodding manner. Like I love Elden Ring, could I beat the game level 1 with a club? Sure, eventually, but I don't learn anything new doing that. It's the same fighting pattern as before, it just takes 30 minutes instead of 5 minutes. Although I will say that planning a perfect build or party in a game is fun, it's just playing through the entire slow paced difficulty generally is not fun. That's just my personal preference though.
POE2 has really good difficulty scaling considering they fine tuned the difficulty AFTER the game released. It was literally faceroll at release it was so easy
Kinda funny, for me dos1 and dos2 have been same difficulty experiences. I played both "normally" roleplaying on high difficulty, and dos2 I may even consider more difficult because of the fact that sometimes I relied on min-maxing my build to use as you say more powerful skills and in dos1 I didn't. I think they are same in terms of "learning to win thought" as you put it, as it kinda logical, the difference I would describe as in dos1 you learn more though losing to learn the battle map, as in dos2 learning is harder if you do it yourself as you need to calculate and try more stuff if you playing "normally", even if grind to win maybe easier it's also longer and again harder to minmax though.
Regardless of whether DOS1 was more difficult than DOS2 or not, the DOS2 armor system was a great addition. I'm not sure if I'm in the minority or majority opinion when I say this, nor do I care -- the magic armor blocking magic status effects + physical armor blocking physical CC kept the most oppressive chain CCs from happening before you ever land a blow. In DOS2, crowd control was important but not all-consuming, which is a pitfall of many early strategy games. Even with the armor system in DOS2, by the way, Air/Water (Paralysis and Freeze, which are both stuns) were the best combination of magic for at least 9-12 months before balance patches and Definitive Edition balanced magic more. Which just goes to show how potent CC is - even when it's not able to be used immediately upon every enemy. There is no other significant reason to complain about the armor system in DOS2 unless you care about how it interacts with crowd control -- and since crowd control is verifiably potent and important, hopping on the "I hate DOS2 armor system" bandwagon is most likely because you were used to using CC as a crutch instead of a tool. Also, you can get Torturer to use Pyrokinetic "burning" and Geomancy "poison" and "root" effects with full magic armor still intact. There are certainly ways around the roadblock.
I didn't find Underrail this hard, or maybe it's me. I'm having a harder time playing Pathfinder. Thanks for the channel, amazing, you got a subscriber!
Hey there, great videos my friend. I wanted some advice... I can only play around 30-60 mins a day... which game do you think I can invest time to and really enjoy or make headway? And considering the time I have, which game do you think I would have a good experience with?
If you like turn base combat I always recommend Darkest Dungeon, that def works well with limited game time, can def get 1 or 2 dungeons (could get more) per game session no prob.
I like hard games that become easy once you learn its mechanics or some tricks. In Fallout 3 the trick is to shot the hunting rifle at a medium range (not long), the assault rifle at close (not medium) and the shotgun/melee when enemies are at your face. Baldur's Gate 2 become easy I as soon as you realize how good double fireballs are. Then you learn you can overwhelm dragons with magic missiles (after you lowered their magic resistance).
I just can't imagine playing baldurs gate without the internet. I don't know how some of y'all did it back in the day. All the resistances and level drains and brain sucking, I'd have been stuck for ages... Hopefully the strategy guide was good back in the day, cause that's a game I'd have shelled out for the prima no question 🤣
That Act 1 boss fight in Tyranny is brutal. I tried to do a solo run and gave up on it because that fight is impossible without a full party. Well...okay it's not impossible but it requires an amount of grinding I'm not willing to go through. And yeah, Kingmaker with the hidden timers 😠 I like the game overall but holy crap it did everything possible to get me to quit.
Tyranny and DOS1 were both games that I found had pretty serious reverse difficulty curves. In Tyranny playing on Hard, I thought that Act 1 was around the right difficulty, but past the first area in Act 2, the game got way too easy. I never used a single unit of camping supplies, and yet the only time I even came close to dying after the halfway point in the game was when I deliberately chose not to rest to remove a debuff before a major bossfight. I was thinking of playing the game agian on Path of the Damned, to see if that's better, but you may have just scared me away from it. Also, I found DOS1 brutally hard at first (I died on the very first fight. Twice.), but it got way easier later on. I'm about 75% of the way through the game now, and not only have I added self-imposed challenges like not using summoning during fights where the enemies are a lower level than me, but also when (SPOILERS!)... ...Bairdotr betrayed my group, I didn't bother trying to reload so that she wouldn't, or even replace her with a different companion. Instead, I took Lone Wolf on one of my main heroes (which put her way behind where she would've been if I'd taken Lone Wolf at game start).
The Dungeon of Naheulbeuk wouldn't be on my 'hardest ever' list, but it sure is the sneakiest one. It looks like a nice, fun little comedy RPG, so obviously you want to put it at the hardest difficulty. Otherwise, you'll fall asleep while playing, right? Yeah - you better give that game some respect or you're going to get yourself beat up by the class clown.
So you would say the Fromsoft games are the Underrail of action-RPG ? Also BG1 - not remaster - was unforgiving all the way through, you could get 1-hit-gibbed by the 1st wolf, a random ogre later on, those ass*** archers, or even Sarevok/Durlag's demon at the end
Kingmaker is difficult because of the weird late game, also almost requires a guide to get some endings, that requires a super early set up/dialogue choice.
100% had to drop the difficulty on DOS1 before I could really get into it. It was probably due to wandering (without wisdom) around places I shouldn't have been yet 😬 Kingmaker, I am very thankful for all of the difficulty tweaks in it but even then I feel the RNGods are exceptionally cruel 😂 I certainly agree about order of playing them though. Baulder's Gate was my first real hurdle in the genre.
I realized after watching this latest video that I haven't played any of the games you mentioned. Which is funny because I think I own most of them from various Steam sales, Epic giveaways, stuff like that. I guess what I'm wondering is, if you had to choose between the Pillars of Eternity and Pathfinder games or Tyranny, which would you recommend? I'm sure most people would say I should play them all, and maybe I'll get around to them all at some point. Just curious if one stands out.
I'm currently playing Kingmaker for the first time. It's really good, especially if you've played the TTRPG before. But... Pillars of Eternity 2 is probably my favorite game of the past 10 years. Pillars of Eternity 1 is extremely good. But they're a little bit dour. If you like your CRPGs with some humor consider trying Kingmaker first. Pillars of Eternity has humor, but it's very in-character and rarely even flirts with the fourth wall. It's a game entirely immersed in its own setting and doesn't really try to engage with the player directly all that much. It engages with the player almost exclusively through the player character. I really like that. But I understand that might not always be to everyone's taste. If it happens to be yours, play Pillars first. Otherwise, try Kingmaker.
I tried to get into these kind of games with my first entry being pillars of eternity one and I must say that was my last entry too. Those games I find very difficult to get good at but I love the story in those games. Also I'm prideful so I never want to lower the difficulty to easy because the game gets too easy and I can tell it was never meant to be played that way. Wish I could get good at them though.
I think a lot of isometric crpgs start off challenging but get easier as you go. When you're low-level, it's pretty easy to get in over your head. My advice is, if you get party-wiped, just make a note of it, reload, and avoid that area until you're a higher level. Don't go into the bear cave alone when you're just at Level 2; unless you have an optimized character, your chances against the bear are roughly similar to your real-life chances against a grumpy grizzly. Don't feel the need to clear out that temple in Gilded Vale right away; it's possible with Aloth and Edér in your party, right after you recruit them, but difficult and you'll probably come out of the whole thing battered and bruised - much easier to just come back later. By the time you're at maximum level, you're pretty much unstoppable - you can completely automate combat using the crappy party AI and still come out on top of most fights. And the game is very forgiving, so it's very hard to make a character that isn't viable in normal difficulty. All you have to do is get past that low-level hurdle and the rest of the game (save for some boss fights) is gravy.
PoE isn't that difficult (I play on Normal). Perserve and just avoid some more difficult fights as you can often return to them later once you can get companions or can roll your own one's (thus utilising gaps in your team). Also when you get your stronghold, there's no need to rebuild and go down the dungeon levels in one go. You can return to them once you're more powerful.
My favorites and ranking of CRPGs on ps4 due to the accessibility options and enhancements added in the recent versions: Pathfinder WOTR Divinity original sin 2 Pillars 1 Pillars 2 Baldur's gate 1+2 collection
I honestly feel like Divinity OS 2 is harder than 1 since in 1 you can cc way harder because no magic or physical armour and can do things like freeze the enemy every turn
Underrail was really flexible. I got fire and ice psy build, but in the DLC half the area are filled with robots that are immune to fire and ice. The solution? The game is generous with EMP grenades. So i got trough the big dungeons with energy and EMPs
I remember Baldurs Gate 1 being soooo difficult when I played it the first time (first CRPG in general). I did not understand the classes or their abilities and I had a horrible understanding of combat (I just entered combat and let everyone autoattack, only used some spells occasionally but that was it) I also didnt complete most of the maps so I always was underleveled for the areas. Now I play by DnD rules and crush the game just because I understand the mechanics, think I could even play higher difficulties but I am too casual of a gamer dor this 😂
I knew that Underrail would be there..... Age of Decadence, No wait ! Dungeon Rats , his more TRPG sequel should be there.....If you make a mistake of using too much healing stuff, you just can't finish the game.... limited HP that can be restored throughout the game.... Anyway, good video as always . I agree with your selections...
How about a video of the most difficult combat encounters in all the CRPGs you have played? Here's mine: Mulmaster Beholder Corps in Curse of the Azure Bonds. Doable with Dust of Disappearance, almost impossible without DoD.
He said “difficult”, not “heartbreaking how could they spit on the promise that the first game had oh and why is there just one dungeon per location type just with different doors blocked”
Wasteland 2 was the hardest for me. I think I played on normal, went through like two quests, and got stuck after running out of ammo. I think I would have to look up a guide and play on easy mode, because otherwise I was NOT having fun at all with that game.
Agree with UnderRail. I would add: Age of Decadence - combat is almost always unfair, which is why I always go pacifist. Witcher 2 - starts out pretty tough and gets even harder with those witcher v witcher fights. Gothic/Risen/Elex - Same formula, everything kills you in the beginning, stick to doing city quests Neverwinter Nights 2 - Storm of Zehir - Mostly the last couple fights. A Vampiric Mind Flayer Lich and the last boss gank squad that makes Sarevok's crew look like little girls.
I’ve played almost every CRPG since the early 90’s (I’m an old guy😂) and the only CRPG that was so hard I actually rage quit was Solasta: Crown of the Magister. For some particular reason this game just had my number. Honestly I go all the way back to the days of Questron and Ultima and never have I faced any BS like that… and I never picked the game back up, it’s just sitting in my Steam Library. 😡…. Mocking me.
CORRUPTION 2029 can be challenging. You get limited resources and build options, you're always outnumbered, and the enemies quickly become more powerful than you as progress. It forced me to use a lot of stealth and strategy to win.
Honestly if I play Kingmaker again (and *when* I play Wrath of the Righteous again) I'm turning off kingdom/crusade management. Just not interesting/fun/engaging mechanics to me.
@@AhbibHaald Yeah, its also the fact that, at first, the dungeon lures you in with the promise of environmental storytelling. Unravel the story of a dwarf that went mad with grief? Awesome! Then you get to the third floor and start wondering HOW did he manage to put a huge dragon skeleton, a chess puzzle and an elemental puzzle while grieving his family. Sure, it might have an explanation, but I dont think real players at a table would buy it and neither did I. Left the tower and had a far more enjoyable time!
@@mrcopycat2355 as the commenter above me put it, it's a type of old school dnd fantasy dungeon. It doesn't need to make logical sense all the time and yet convey the story in a real way. The RUclipsr Josh Strife Hayes summarized the feel and tone of Baldur's Gate perfectly. "You are both there in grounded reality and heightened fantasy" Personally i feel that on the surface, the Forgotten Realms is a very grounded fantasy but underneath, there is world plenty of magic and mystery and it's that combination that makes it special.
Guess it's time to re-visit PoE2. I breezed through POTD when the game first came out. Think I finished it in 35 hours in a semi-completionist fashion. It got too easy at one point then I was surprised with how short the Main Story was. Seems like they've added some good end-game content and optional boss fights to it, and tweaked the difficulty. Tyranny was great, I know exactly that fight you're talking about at the end of Act 1. I had to reroll characters like 3-4 times before I was able to get a comp that could win that fight. Probably one of the single hardest boss fights of any game I've ever played. Ramza vs Weigraff in FFTactics is another one that comes to mind. How many bricked games did you have because of THAT fight bc you forgot to save prior... I actually disagree on DOS:1. While difficult, much like DOS:2, the higher difficulties are about setting up favorable map situations early (Ambushes, CC, etc) and once you hit a certain point your team just steam rolls the content. Especially if you run a Lone Wolf set-up where your two demi-gods just wreck everything almost the entire game. Highly recommend doing a Skeleton + Fane Lone-wolf run in DOS:2 if you haven't done one. INSANELY fun!
Agree about Underrail and that Original Sin 1 is a lot harder than Original Sin 2. I can't comment about Deadfire because I looked at what Ultimate mode meant and laughed. I couldn't even imagine it. Your number of people who have won it that way is higher than I would have expected. Kingmaker, on the other hand, I didn't play until after the Wildcards DLC was out and really liked those characters. And having them in my party trivialized the rest of the combat. One of them would do about the same damage as all the other characters in the party put together. It was like the companion quests where a single companion did the fighting while everyone else just stood back and watched. And I generally liked the kingdom management stuff, so that didn't add to the difficulty for me.
I feel both Pathfinder games require a large degree of foreknowledge in character building, on top of the time limit for main quests. Both damn, do you feel great when you overcome certain challenges (but seriously fuck the vilderavn).
![KSI - Thick Of It (feat. Trippie Redd) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/At8v_Yc044Y/mqdefault.jpg)
For me it was Baldur's Gate 2 because I was 12 and I was playing a dual wielding ranger with full plate armor. And still I made it through Underdark, which I still don't know how I did. But then my Drow equipment disintegrated and I quit. Yes. I grew up hard.
Woah, I bet that scarred you for life! ;-)
@@douglaswilliams6834 They wrote it in the item description just to taunt him in advance. 😢
Shadow of Amn was hard and you were expected to know BG1 first.
I had an easier time with BG2 simply because I played Icewind Dale before it. I in fact couldn't finish the last final fight in BG1 until Icewind Dale taught me how to actually build characters and most basically, how to use spells properly. Most of BG1 (without the expansions,) you can get through just flailing about and not really knowing what you're doing. It doesn't really prepare you for that final battle.
This game was hard for me because of all the spell protections. And to be honest, I'm not a big fan of the real time with pause system. I know you can set it up to pause every round, but those combat messages still go awfully fast. So I always struggled in bringing down defenses. And don't get me started on that red dragon. It was always a pain to get through his defenses.
I'd be interested to see you do a video on the strategies that you feel translate well between CRPGs - heard you say a few times that once you learn how to play one game well, it makes others a lot easier. Would be interested to hear you talk more on that. (Also would love a Pathologic 2 review!)
Take my updoots!
If I hadnt played D&D 3.5 I dont think I'd have given Kingmaker a chance. But in CRPGs I think that a common strategy is initiative and CC. Specially if the game allows surprise rounds. It is super reliable.
I want to see this too. I want to get into these kind of games
Surprised Age of Decadence isn't there. But UnderRail is there so that's cool. I still can't fight those invisible scorpions-like crawlers effectively, no matter what builds or tools in my inventory.
I've heard stories about Wizardry 4-The Return of Werdna. Scary stories... like it's "for veteran Wizardry players" which is already far from easy games.
Uncanny dodge my friend! Just pop it when you enter a new cave area. There's also Pseudo-spatial Projection, a thought control psi ability!
yea, AoD belongs here ^^
And I would say that Wizardry 7 is a lil harder than w4 for one simple reason : If you started back then like me, and had no clue that there are real parties competing with you for the map parts you can reaaaaly eff yourself over ^^
@@DawnOfMutilation oh yeah I remember Wizardry 7 - every guide is a wall of text because game is non-linear and hard. Mostly time consuming - playing without guide will take months or 200h.
I couldn't get into age of decadence because of the difficulty. It's like if you don't build your character perfect you are screwed.
@@joshuagorman2191 It's designed to force you to trial and error your way through. It's pretty frustrating design to be sure, but the game at least has a lot of stuff going on, even if its *super* rough around the edges. I like the idea of a highly charismatic merchant just snake oiling his way through an entire chapter without fighting anything personally. Underrail is the same way, but its actually not nearly as difficult as many would have you believe. Once you know how crafting works you're like halfway to being able to just steamroll the game. It also gets infinitely easier with metagame knowledge.
Always great to see more Tyranny love on your channel! Thank you sir!
It has flaws for sure but there's more good ideas in there than bad. Personally I think the magic crafting system is among the best I've seen in any game.
Tyranny is a little gem. I admit it is somewhat flawed and frustrating at moments but it such an immersive and original crpg...
I wanted to like it, but I just can't get into it. It's too political for me, and the whole premise of being a lapdog of this superdupervillain is off-putting. Also, I don't like that you have to roll a spellcaster class or you will struggle.
@@maverick9370 the gameplay is boring and there is barely any theorycrafting. I don't even know what's the game is doing in this list. Same for dos1, it's just extremely easy? I guess he didn't play a lot of crpg lol
@@boo_ That's... not true at all about spellcasters. I roll a tank most of the time. You have more than enough great spellcaster companions.
Underrail is just insane (and that's coming from a guy with vids of one turning the final boss). The game is pretty relentless all the way through and very few builds, if any, can cover all bases; this makes it really fun to experiment
It's tough, but the freedom you have really allows you to eventually find a way to overcome that challenge. When I tried the Tyranny act 1 boss fight mentioned in this video, I just had absolutely nothing to do except bash my head against a wall over and over.
So it's a good kind of difficulty.
@@scullyy I dont know. The final boss in Underrail... my build couldnt win no matter what.
@@garmfilf2789 You did the puzzle? I don't know, the last boss is still pretty much on par on the difficulty level of everything else that you face until then, even if you don't complete the puzzle that weakens it.
The only real difficulty spike I saw was the Depot A area, after that, everything was manageable, even if somewhat frustrating sometimes.
@@scullyy No, it's not. Yes, it's not a lack of options like in the first act of Tyranny, but Underrail is built on meta-knowledge, it doesn't offer challenges to overcome, but puzzles to solve.
@@panquecaaladacomcreme You think? The last dungeon is a nightmare with enemies that never stop respawning and the last boss... I don't remember if I did the puzzle. Been a few years since I played it, but I do remember being very upset with that thing lol.
I did manage to beat the game btw, but with another save.
Still my favorite part of every morning watching your content! Great vid! Have you thought about playing Outer Wilds? Story/puzzle game with lots of high praise and awards
Can't say I've given it much thought, I know about it, but youre the first person to request it
Went all the way to the end boss in underrail with a Spearman tank grenadeer, ended up giving up on the last boss. There is a puzzle you can do to make it easier, but the puzzle itself is crazy and I calculated that i simply would not be strong enough even should I do the puzzle. I told myself that even getting that far with a gimped build was an accomplishment. Have completed it with an assault rifle commando. Such a fun time
Your notes on Divinity OS1 explains so much of the friction I had when I tried playing it.
At least I know that why, now.
Both Bg1 and 2 with mods restoring the games original difficulty are brutal at certain points and ofc specifically the last boss fights
I think Baldur's Gate 1 is pretty hard, but mainly because how easily you can die in the early game, especially if you play a squishier class. If you're playing a mage, even with high constitution, you can get taken out by one magic missile. You basically had to have the shield spell up all the time, if you forget or if the spell wears off or gets dispelled, you'll die faster than you realize.
Quick save.
Yeah, much of that is just AD&D at low levels. BG1 lets you get yourself in trouble because of how quickly it throws you into the open world and how slow they decided to make early leveling; compare that to Icewind Dale which despite being a harder game has a much faster and smoother start. The counterpoint to the early game difficulty is that the level 1 spell Sleep is an "I win" button for a large chunk of the game.
I'm still on the character creation screen. Been trying since 1998 to roll a 100. Haven't done it yet but looking forward to playing the game when I do. Reroll!
@treeghettox BG1. You spend so much time at low levels that Sleep is an encounter winning ability for a large part of the base game. It's still good at low levels in IWD but you level so quickly in that game that if you're playing a sorcerer you might even consider skipping Sleep altogether since it doesn't have any effect on creatures with 5 HD or higher.
@@billb0313 the highest I ever rolled was a 96.
Excellent list. I agree with you on all of those. I was surprised not to see BG1 on there. Man, that game will absolutely beat you down if you happen to walk up on a..I think they are called a Doom Warden..or something like that. Or even a Winter Wolf that lands one of those Frost Breaths. OH, those stupid bandit archers that shoot those cold arrows. Your front line is dead before they can cross the distance.
@MortismalGaming Interesting that UnderRail made it.. and most of arguments for it also apply to Age of Decadence, especially the 'unforgiving' part. I found both on similar level, except AoD combat is even more high-stakes. And player can actually die on numerous occasions in dialogue :P I know you did play AoD, any thoughts why you chose not to include it?
AoD is more CYOA than crpg
Age Of Decadence really isn't that hard though. Sure it's unforgiving if you try to spread yourself thin, but if you focus your build the way the game tells you it's really not that bad. It's not a game with a complex leveling system or with complex combat. I think it's reputation for being so hard just comes from folks who spread themselves thin first playthrough and needed to restart. Imo Pathfinder Kingmaker is by far the hardest game on this list, the leveling system is very complex and has many non obvious ways to sink your build, and the endgame Wild Hunt enemies punish you more than any other game I've played if you're not prepared for them, plus at the end the game will just kill off most your party if you didn't make specific decisions. It's brutal. I can't even imagine playing through blind or suffering through the highest difficulties
I didn't include AoD because the game very explicitly tells you how to approach it, and it's only really difficult if you deliberately try to do things your character isnt built for.
In Pillars 2 this initial part, in the flooded neighborhood, on PotD difficulty, after the updates, is hell. After I played Kingmaker, especially on Unfair, the other CRPGs turned into a walk in the park. I still want to try UnderRail, even with the save scum concept.
Great game, underail is a very nice experience, and feels immersives.
You are all alone, with a certain set of skills, and you can't pick all skills, so you have to make choices, wich mean that the game is build for having multiples solutions for a specific problem, you are not even forced to be good in combat, you could stealth your way and plants some mines that you have crafted.
Bro I haven’t struggled in a game in years like I have at the beginning of Pillars 2. I started on PotD like Mortismal suggested and was salty Lol. I spent days trying to get off the first island and almost quit a few times. I got off of it finally and it felt great, unfortunately those loading screens caused me to quit. They were all 2-7 mins and it would be every time you entered a new area or building it was just too much especially on the old Xbox.
Kingmaker was honestly the biggest pain to try and get through I hated kingdom management I didn’t have combat problems until I got to act 5 then my party just couldn’t hit anything if their life counted on it but the worst part was I play on console and it’s still a buggy mess my saves got corrupted 12 times and I crashed every other hour the other difficult games would be poe and poe 2’s dlc I can fly through the main campaigns but those dlcs just turned the difficulty up when I was not prepared for still probably my favorite series in crpgs
Oof, I'm glad I used bag of tricks to skip kingdom stuff. Played WotR first and crusading was rough especially since it was my first crpg so the combat and builds were already stressing me out.
@@Owl-yc2yu crusade management is way easier then kingdom management the only part I don’t like is the actual battles your army fights where it basically becomes a heroes of might and magic game and some of the map gets blocked off because demons take forts and if ya don’t defend them they come back and reclaim them
Well, Pathfinder, especially as you level up, assumes you're stacking 6-10 buffs on your party, allowing the various different types of bonuses to combine so that you're getting an extra 20 points on your rolls. You can see it baked into the design when your frontline fighters have 40-50 AC while the spell casters are stuck at 15-20. Tightening the bounded accuracy is one thing that D&D 5th edition does over Pathfinder, ensuring that you don't need to drop 10 or 15 spells on your party before a major fight.
I played it at story mode+auto management of kingdom. Hilariously easy, not even used spells just auto attack😂
for me , its Divinity Original Sin 2. sometimes you meet opponents where i have to look for guides because i have no idea how to get past them
Underrail can definitely be played through as basically any build if you know what you are doing and actually somewhat focus the build (hybrid builds are much harder to keep on track depending on how you diversify them) but on easy, normal, and hard you can recover from just about anything using a combination of traps, throwables, and consumable items. The hardest difficulty you need to be focused on a specific direction early (because otherwise you won't kill much) but also need to understand that fights can't be won head on in most cases. Focusing doesn't mean you can't make a hybrid, it just means you need core combat skills at certain levels so you can deal appropriately with the encounter's you are facing or get specific feats as early as possible.
If you play through with a "recommended" build the game often isn't that fun in my experience, the tin can assault rifle builds are rather boring, and the real fun comes when you create an archetype you like (like a spear wielding electrokinesis user, or a sniper focusing on mind control). Honestly I'd never play through Underrail without branching out into Psi, as it adds so much flavour to the game (meaning every character I play is a hybrid because I also avoid pure Psi). My favourite memory of the game is with a Hammer focused Muscle Wizard abusing the interaction between Psychokinesis and Strength taking on Balor's crew head on (that's like a good 30-40 enemies) by leading them through a doorway that was trapped to oblivion and crushing their skulls if they managed to make it through.
One of the best parts of the game is that build diversity is absolutely a thing for most of the game, and the only place a "bad" build might struggle is on certain parts where you are forced into direct combat against a superior opponent (like the last arena mission). Otherwise CC and alpha striking from stealth can clear most encounter's regardless of your build.
It's a lot to take in when you start playing, but definitely not that hard overall, especially when you get creative with combat encounter's. I honestly think Underrail has some of the best CRPG combat in any game out there.
Another quality video! Would love to hear your initial thoughts/impressions on Project Haven, it doesn't have an official release yet but does have a demo available on steam.
The hardest part of beating Original Sin 1 on Hardcore is trying to escape the lava cave at the end of act 2 since if you take to long you will just auto die. Or you might just die because the game decides you will even if you arent actually on the Lava, as was in my case :(
Great Selection :) for me the ultimative Nr. 1 will always be Baldur's Gate 1 as a Mage without any character import or such shenanigans. Welcome to worst attack value, no real weapon proficiencies, 3-4 spells / day and 4 HP xD
Five hardest RPGs: Underrail, Underrail, Underrail, Underrail and Underrail: Expedition.
It doesn't even need to be on hardest difficulty to make it to the list
You should give Phantom Doctrine a try at some point in the future, it's from a few years ago now, but is a TTRPG and still holds up quite well. Unfortunately it just came and went and most people forgot about it.
TTRPG : I did not know it was a table top role-playing game (?). I played the entire thing on Hard, including the extension, and almost got all achievements (missing 3 easy ones because I did one single playthrough, which is ironic considering I obtained other ones that only 1% of Steam buyers got). The bio-engineering system is convoluted (used a Steam guide everytime), but otherwise very decent game. Very few people finish it honestly, which is not a great sign, but 75% positive reviews nonetheless.
@@Baraz_Red That's just a typo, thank you very much. Purchasing the MK Ultra facility is something else that actually hinders you because it asks you money to pay for interrogations and executions, even though it is otherwise 100% free if you never unlock it.
I think that the problem with people dropping it is that the gameplay is pretty much identical in all 3 campaigns, the only thing that changes is the story being told which can get repetitive.
@@ChaosZero. I did not mind the MK Ultra system, which I seldom used except to make sure my new agents were not enemy moles and for a few quest related task. :P As a completionist, I enjoyed buying every upgrade.
The Bio-engineering system, where you inject chemicals in your agents to boost their stats, was a rather complex system (really hard to map out). Notably as the game did not even show you your past injections on an agent. Though perfection was not really necessary to end the game on Hard (perfect bio-chem boosts just made your agents super stronger).
I got a feeling once colony ship releases, it will make it on the list.
knights of the chalice is hard, temple of elemental evil with the community patch is pretty hard too
I've played Divinity OS1 and 2 on my own choice then, following Mortym videos Wasteland 3 and I haven''t found any of them too difficult,at least at normal. Followinfg the channel I got intrigued and involved with Pathfinder WOTR and here the problems came out. It's an incredible game, with story, mechanics and a lot of candies compared to similar games. There is a lot of small details in the interface, the UI, the system that make you wonder how much work by the developers is behind such huge project. You feel like your money were really well spent.
One silly thing: I would have liked to be able to zoom out while in the campaign map to have a better view, sometimes I got lost on the various paths...
However, I didn't had any problems to understand Pathfinder rules and mechanics (even if in same case it has been more dififcult because of what I understood was due to bugs...). I found this game difficult because it does not help you to understand what you should do, what some abilities and spells do, when you should use them ( and they are really a lot!). It does not explain hexes, it soes not tell you how to nbond objects, and so on. I mean, I donìt want a full in game tutorial but at least the basics!
Anyway, I'm almost at the end of Act 3 at normal, had to repeat a few times (or ten) some boss fight and I'm enjoining the game. A lot.
Some of mine would be the ones I first played when they came out. The internet wasn't what it is today, so looking up information on how to build characters or how to get through certain scenarios weren't as readily available. Planescape Torment and Baldur's Gate 1 were really hard for me. More recent games would include games that heavily rely on building a "correct' character to get the most out of the game. Games like Atom RPG and Wasteland 2 were very frustrating my first times through. The very hardest games for me though will probably always be Myst and Riven. Took me months and months...Probably the only games I ever had to take extensive notes to get through.
Kingmaker and Pillars of Eternity are some of the best games I have ever played (have not beaten either) and I think they are masterpieces of the genre. I will have to try Tyranny!
If you like those games you will probably love tyranny. Ending is a bit under cooked tho
Tyranny has an absolutely insane and beautiful magig system, something i hope we will se Obsidian return to one day. It's so well thought out, it makes DnD and Pathfinder look idiotic.
PoE 1 is really good, but I found 2 kind of a boring slog.
Tyranny is better than either of them.
They just get boring towards the end which is prolly why you haven't beat them they are fun through the first 3/4th
As a crpg baby, I felt a little happy to see Kingmaker on this list, given that it’s the first isometric crpg (and it this point, the only one) that I’ve beaten. Finally giving WotR a go
Out of all these, underrail interest me the most because the setting and artstyle. The learning curve seems scary though
Underrail is awesome. Closest experience to Fallout 1 & 2 as you can get. Really enjoyable.
max your main attack stat and stealth, lockpick, hacking skills every level for your first character and you'll be fine. Also, play on normal lol
The best CRPG I ever played, in the terms of immersion/storywise. Also the combat can be very enjoyable, but you must study builds on forums before playing it. While there are plenty of builds that are viable, you need to master the basics of building your char to not suffer. There's a part of the game that's known as "where bad builds die" and it pretty much does what the name says. If you surpass this part, the game opens up a lot.
Savescumming is a common pratice, but at least the loading screen is pretty fast.
It's great, but also, tough as nails. You really need to know what yu're doing and sae as much as you can. One wrong turn...
I gonna say, it's definitely a game that you need to play by it's rules and be cheesy whenever you can. You can't mess around with an ineffective build because otherwise you won't get far.
You do feel pretty badass when you get things right though.
I have beaten almost every CRPG there is and this year I finally beat Knightmare for the Amiga. When I was a boy my grandma bought it to me, and the owner warned it was maybe "too hard" so she could return it. That was the only time ever we returned a game to the store.
Knightmare is the hardest CRPG I ever played and I can't think of a game that can compare. It's not particularly broken, it is just designed in a way that takes a LOT out of the player. You really have to do a lot of research about how the system works, and even if you do know and run it with maps, walkthrough and strategy tips it's still absurd.
It's been a decade since I played either, but I remember yelling my friend Icewind Dale wasn't fun, it was an exercise in masochism. I think I was discussing 1.
IMHO, Icewind Dale is the gold standard of combat balance and encounter design in D&D CRPGs.
The bit I always get stuck on is taking Caed Nua in PoE. I mean I've done it a few times but it seems to be a huge difficulty spike. Maybe I'm just playing the stupid way 🤷
As someone who knew nothing about how to actually play crpgs until last year DOS 1 was a cakewalk compared to trying to play wotr or pillars 1 just because I actually had some idea of wtf i was doing
DOS1 (EE) imo wasn't too bad on the hardest level and i enjoyed it more than DOS2 (as of Act 2 at least); i did do remember a few tuff fights. I own the others, except UnderRail, but haven't played them yet so hard to say. Thanks for this video.
I wonder why DOS 1 is considered much harder than DOS 2? I went in blind on DOS1 and played on the highest difficulty and I had a blast! It was hard but never unfair. Enemies had +20% more HP and there were more enemies. But the second half of the game were still a breeze. I think I 3-shotted the last boss on my first attempt at fighting him.
DOS2 seem much harder. I tried the hardest difficulty for a while, but I had to scale it back one notch because while it was doable I did not have any fun. The modifiers are much larger in DOS2. Enemies get instead of +20%, the get +50%. And they also get +50% extra armor which prevents you from stunning them or stacking effects. In DOS1 it was pretty easy to consistently keep large groups stunned towards the end of the game. I think the enemies also do an extra 50% damage. So DOS2 should be much harder.
A list of good games, especially Underrail.
It's not on the list, but I think Wizardry IV is one of the toughest experiences.
I am now starting a new tradition, where I request you review Geneforge:Mutagen every video.
Because it's my favorite game, and CRPG, of all time.
I saw "PoE2" in the description and for a second really thought you already got to play through Path of Exile 2 🙃
I’d watch any video you make, doesn’t even matter. Thanks for the content
Im glad to hear the first part of tyranny is considered somewhat difficult, that game beat my ass to the point i figured i wasnt cut out for this genre
Specifically the boss fight at the end of chapter 1 is ridiculous on max difficulty, harder than anything else in the game easily.
Liked DOS 1 combat way more then 2nd game. It's more challenging but it feels there is more ways to deal with every battle.
The armour system completely cripples the game and completely took away what made DOS 1 combat Interesting, setting up traps and using the environment, now everything is basically immune to environmental damage and CCs
Also physical damage is way too good, you get 3-4 CCs as level 1 spells and warfare counts for everything damage.
And the turn based roulette where you and the enemy go in turns is very abusable.
Overall DOS2 might be more beginners friendly and polished, but it's combat was a major step down for me
I absolutely disagree. Completed both games on tactic and I don't like DOS2 armor system. But I completely understand why it was made. DOS1 gameplay at some point turns into stunlocking everyone. And the only thing that was stopping player from doing it was stupid spheres with immune auras (that was added in Enhanced Edition if I remember correctly).
Armor system may not be the most elegant way to fix it but its much more interesting than spheres.
There are some things I don't like in DOS2 (such as full magic or full physic parties being the best options and summoning being opaf) but I don't understand how could anyone consider it being easier than DOS1
@@ПетровичЗомбиI think Dos 2 is difficult for all the wrong reason
If you play it like a normal cRPG or strategy game it's gonna be rough, enemies one shot you/cc you no matter how tanky you are(unless you're immune of course) so there is no point of building any defense
Once you realize that all that matters is damage the game becomes a cakewalk.
Every fight is basically the same and the environment (which was imo the most interesting part of DOS1) barley matter and it's all about killing/disabling whoever goes next in turn or make yourself untouchable after dealing damage (invis/move away enough against melee)
It feels difficult because if you mess up and the enemy gets a turn, one of your guy dies.
Of course it's all subjective and overall DOS2 is a more pleasant game to play.
It's just the combat is kinda meh when it comes down to it
@@disk3001 You probably know this but if you're on Steam, there are overhaul mods. Currently using "Divinity Unleashed" and it removes the status effect gate you have with armor.
It's an overhaul mod though, so not for everyone and certainly not a desireable method for somepeople (since it's a mod)
Edit: CC is also different (i.e. knockdown doesn't disable a turn etc.)
I always enjoy the difficulty that allows me to play the party that I enjoy the concept of, and is tuned well for them. I've never enjoyed beating the hardest difficulty in games if it just forces you into playing a very specific and plodding manner.
Like I love Elden Ring, could I beat the game level 1 with a club? Sure, eventually, but I don't learn anything new doing that. It's the same fighting pattern as before, it just takes 30 minutes instead of 5 minutes.
Although I will say that planning a perfect build or party in a game is fun, it's just playing through the entire slow paced difficulty generally is not fun.
That's just my personal preference though.
POE2 has really good difficulty scaling considering they fine tuned the difficulty AFTER the game released. It was literally faceroll at release it was so easy
OS1 was so damn good tho! You should review it officially lol
Thanks for the content! May you walk in wisdom.
Kinda funny, for me dos1 and dos2 have been same difficulty experiences. I played both "normally" roleplaying on high difficulty, and dos2 I may even consider more difficult because of the fact that sometimes I relied on min-maxing my build to use as you say more powerful skills and in dos1 I didn't. I think they are same in terms of "learning to win thought" as you put it, as it kinda logical, the difference I would describe as in dos1 you learn more though losing to learn the battle map, as in dos2 learning is harder if you do it yourself as you need to calculate and try more stuff if you playing "normally", even if grind to win maybe easier it's also longer and again harder to minmax though.
Regardless of whether DOS1 was more difficult than DOS2 or not, the DOS2 armor system was a great addition. I'm not sure if I'm in the minority or majority opinion when I say this, nor do I care -- the magic armor blocking magic status effects + physical armor blocking physical CC kept the most oppressive chain CCs from happening before you ever land a blow. In DOS2, crowd control was important but not all-consuming, which is a pitfall of many early strategy games.
Even with the armor system in DOS2, by the way, Air/Water (Paralysis and Freeze, which are both stuns) were the best combination of magic for at least 9-12 months before balance patches and Definitive Edition balanced magic more. Which just goes to show how potent CC is - even when it's not able to be used immediately upon every enemy.
There is no other significant reason to complain about the armor system in DOS2 unless you care about how it interacts with crowd control -- and since crowd control is verifiably potent and important, hopping on the "I hate DOS2 armor system" bandwagon is most likely because you were used to using CC as a crutch instead of a tool.
Also, you can get Torturer to use Pyrokinetic "burning" and Geomancy "poison" and "root" effects with full magic armor still intact. There are certainly ways around the roadblock.
I'd enjoy hearing your review of D:OS
I didn't find Underrail this hard, or maybe it's me. I'm having a harder time playing Pathfinder. Thanks for the channel, amazing, you got a subscriber!
DoS1 was so hard for me when i first played it, i had to do the rain + lighting wand cheese for like 90% of the game
Hey there, great videos my friend. I wanted some advice... I can only play around 30-60 mins a day... which game do you think I can invest time to and really enjoy or make headway? And considering the time I have, which game do you think I would have a good experience with?
If you want a crpg with that limited time, I would say dos 2 is fine.
DOS2 would indeed be your best bet but CRPG's in general are very heavy time investments
If you like turn base combat I always recommend Darkest Dungeon, that def works well with limited game time, can def get 1 or 2 dungeons (could get more) per game session no prob.
@@SirCanuckelhead Thanks for the suggestion... most appreciated!
@@MortismalGaming Thank you! Love the channel! I was wondering if you could do a review of Songs of Conquest.
I like hard games that become easy once you learn its mechanics or some tricks. In Fallout 3 the trick is to shot the hunting rifle at a medium range (not long), the assault rifle at close (not medium) and the shotgun/melee when enemies are at your face. Baldur's Gate 2 become easy I as soon as you realize how good double fireballs are. Then you learn you can overwhelm dragons with magic missiles (after you lowered their magic resistance).
Demise Ascension sequel to Mordor depths of Dejenol is a brutal dungeon crawler only for hardcore gamers
I just can't imagine playing baldurs gate without the internet. I don't know how some of y'all did it back in the day. All the resistances and level drains and brain sucking, I'd have been stuck for ages... Hopefully the strategy guide was good back in the day, cause that's a game I'd have shelled out for the prima no question 🤣
That Act 1 boss fight in Tyranny is brutal. I tried to do a solo run and gave up on it because that fight is impossible without a full party. Well...okay it's not impossible but it requires an amount of grinding I'm not willing to go through.
And yeah, Kingmaker with the hidden timers 😠
I like the game overall but holy crap it did everything possible to get me to quit.
I did find Kingmaker hard, though Wotr I've found much harder. DoS though was way harder than DoS2, haven't played PoE2 but look forward to it.
My honorable mention would be Throne of Bhaal for Baldurs Gate 2
Tyranny and DOS1 were both games that I found had pretty serious reverse difficulty curves.
In Tyranny playing on Hard, I thought that Act 1 was around the right difficulty, but past the first area in Act 2, the game got way too easy. I never used a single unit of camping supplies, and yet the only time I even came close to dying after the halfway point in the game was when I deliberately chose not to rest to remove a debuff before a major bossfight. I was thinking of playing the game agian on Path of the Damned, to see if that's better, but you may have just scared me away from it.
Also, I found DOS1 brutally hard at first (I died on the very first fight. Twice.), but it got way easier later on. I'm about 75% of the way through the game now, and not only have I added self-imposed challenges like not using summoning during fights where the enemies are a lower level than me, but also when (SPOILERS!)...
...Bairdotr betrayed my group, I didn't bother trying to reload so that she wouldn't, or even replace her with a different companion. Instead, I took Lone Wolf on one of my main heroes (which put her way behind where she would've been if I'd taken Lone Wolf at game start).
The Dungeon of Naheulbeuk wouldn't be on my 'hardest ever' list, but it sure is the sneakiest one. It looks like a nice, fun little comedy RPG, so obviously you want to put it at the hardest difficulty. Otherwise, you'll fall asleep while playing, right? Yeah - you better give that game some respect or you're going to get yourself beat up by the class clown.
I find using spells in Tyranny unique because you can create many spells with different elements, and all characters can use it
DOS 2 was harder in my opinion since you couldn't stun enemies untill their magic shield was down.
So you would say the Fromsoft games are the Underrail of action-RPG ?
Also BG1 - not remaster - was unforgiving all the way through, you could get 1-hit-gibbed by the 1st wolf, a random ogre later on, those ass*** archers, or even Sarevok/Durlag's demon at the end
To a degree sure
I've reloaded so many times during Act 1 of Tyranny...OMG...but the game is just so well done that you'll keep trying
Kingmaker is difficult because of the weird late game, also almost requires a guide to get some endings, that requires a super early set up/dialogue choice.
100% had to drop the difficulty on DOS1 before I could really get into it. It was probably due to wandering (without wisdom) around places I shouldn't have been yet 😬
Kingmaker, I am very thankful for all of the difficulty tweaks in it but even then I feel the RNGods are exceptionally cruel 😂
I certainly agree about order of playing them though. Baulder's Gate was my first real hurdle in the genre.
Underrail is for sure very cool, interesting and tricky game. Lots to like in that, but no doubt there are many who do not enjoy it, which is fine!
I would love to see a stellaris complete review! I'm currently sitting at 2032 hours and 78%.
I realized after watching this latest video that I haven't played any of the games you mentioned. Which is funny because I think I own most of them from various Steam sales, Epic giveaways, stuff like that. I guess what I'm wondering is, if you had to choose between the Pillars of Eternity and Pathfinder games or Tyranny, which would you recommend? I'm sure most people would say I should play them all, and maybe I'll get around to them all at some point. Just curious if one stands out.
I'm currently playing Kingmaker for the first time. It's really good, especially if you've played the TTRPG before.
But... Pillars of Eternity 2 is probably my favorite game of the past 10 years. Pillars of Eternity 1 is extremely good. But they're a little bit dour. If you like your CRPGs with some humor consider trying Kingmaker first.
Pillars of Eternity has humor, but it's very in-character and rarely even flirts with the fourth wall. It's a game entirely immersed in its own setting and doesn't really try to engage with the player directly all that much. It engages with the player almost exclusively through the player character.
I really like that. But I understand that might not always be to everyone's taste. If it happens to be yours, play Pillars first. Otherwise, try Kingmaker.
Watch his top crpgs. Kingmakers next game wrath is his fav while dos 2 is #2.
DOS2 is probably the best place to start for getting into crpgs, but between those I'd try WotR or Tyranny
Pathfinder Kingmaker and Wrath of the Righteous imo But Pillars of Eternity 1 and then 2 is also a solid choice
The sneaking through the mines bit in D:OS almost made me ragequit the first time I played.
I tried to get into these kind of games with my first entry being pillars of eternity one and I must say that was my last entry too. Those games I find very difficult to get good at but I love the story in those games. Also I'm prideful so I never want to lower the difficulty to easy because the game gets too easy and I can tell it was never meant to be played that way. Wish I could get good at them though.
I think a lot of isometric crpgs start off challenging but get easier as you go. When you're low-level, it's pretty easy to get in over your head.
My advice is, if you get party-wiped, just make a note of it, reload, and avoid that area until you're a higher level. Don't go into the bear cave alone when you're just at Level 2; unless you have an optimized character, your chances against the bear are roughly similar to your real-life chances against a grumpy grizzly. Don't feel the need to clear out that temple in Gilded Vale right away; it's possible with Aloth and Edér in your party, right after you recruit them, but difficult and you'll probably come out of the whole thing battered and bruised - much easier to just come back later.
By the time you're at maximum level, you're pretty much unstoppable - you can completely automate combat using the crappy party AI and still come out on top of most fights. And the game is very forgiving, so it's very hard to make a character that isn't viable in normal difficulty. All you have to do is get past that low-level hurdle and the rest of the game (save for some boss fights) is gravy.
PoE isn't that difficult (I play on Normal). Perserve and just avoid some more difficult fights as you can often return to them later once you can get companions or can roll your own one's (thus utilising gaps in your team). Also when you get your stronghold, there's no need to rebuild and go down the dungeon levels in one go. You can return to them once you're more powerful.
When Divinity Original Sin 2 first came out the AI was completely ridiculous. They had to go back and tone it down.
My favorites and ranking of CRPGs on ps4 due to the accessibility options and enhancements added in the recent versions:
Pathfinder WOTR
Divinity original sin 2
Pillars 1
Pillars 2
Baldur's gate 1+2 collection
I honestly feel like Divinity OS 2 is harder than 1 since in 1 you can cc way harder because no magic or physical armour and can do things like freeze the enemy every turn
Underrail was really flexible. I got fire and ice psy build, but in the DLC half the area are filled with robots that are immune to fire and ice. The solution? The game is generous with EMP grenades. So i got trough the big dungeons with energy and EMPs
I remember Baldurs Gate 1 being soooo difficult when I played it the first time (first CRPG in general). I did not understand the classes or their abilities and I had a horrible understanding of combat (I just entered combat and let everyone autoattack, only used some spells occasionally but that was it) I also didnt complete most of the maps so I always was underleveled for the areas. Now I play by DnD rules and crush the game just because I understand the mechanics, think I could even play higher difficulties but I am too casual of a gamer dor this 😂
I've not played it for many years, but I recall DA:O being very tricky.
Not a crpg but Dragon Age Origins on highest diff was a big challenge
What defines CRPG? Turn-based combat?
Love this channel
i played all expect underrail.
also baldur's gate 2, neverwinter nights 2, icewind dale, planescape torment should be at least honorable mentions.
I knew that Underrail would be there..... Age of Decadence, No wait ! Dungeon Rats , his more TRPG sequel should be there.....If you make a mistake of using too much healing stuff, you just can't finish the game.... limited HP that can be restored throughout the game....
Anyway, good video as always . I agree with your selections...
How about a video of the most difficult combat encounters in all the CRPGs you have played? Here's mine: Mulmaster Beholder Corps in Curse of the Azure Bonds. Doable with Dust of Disappearance, almost impossible without DoD.
Dragon age 2 on nightmare is kind of a nightmare. Especially act 1.
He said “difficult”, not “heartbreaking how could they spit on the promise that the first game had oh and why is there just one dungeon per location type just with different doors blocked”
Sarcastic Hawke carried that game for me but overall it was a step down
free comment.
Wasteland 2 was the hardest for me. I think I played on normal, went through like two quests, and got stuck after running out of ammo. I think I would have to look up a guide and play on easy mode, because otherwise I was NOT having fun at all with that game.
Agree with UnderRail.
I would add:
Age of Decadence - combat is almost always unfair, which is why I always go pacifist.
Witcher 2 - starts out pretty tough and gets even harder with those witcher v witcher fights.
Gothic/Risen/Elex - Same formula, everything kills you in the beginning, stick to doing city quests
Neverwinter Nights 2 - Storm of Zehir - Mostly the last couple fights. A Vampiric Mind Flayer Lich and the last boss gank squad that makes Sarevok's crew look like little girls.
Tyranny is the best thing Obsidian ever done.Legit original and immersive and your choices really matter in almost every encounter.
And you get perks for someone respecting or hating you ^^
I know you don't typically cover them but the Shin Megami Tensei series is notoriously difficult
I’ve played almost every CRPG since the early 90’s (I’m an old guy😂) and the only CRPG that was so hard I actually rage quit was Solasta: Crown of the Magister. For some particular reason this game just had my number. Honestly I go all the way back to the days of Questron and Ultima and never have I faced any BS like that… and I never picked the game back up, it’s just sitting in my Steam Library. 😡…. Mocking me.
Great games even on hardest difficulty.
Baldur's Gate 1 on the Baal difficulty was brutal
Will you review Jagged Alliance 2? One of the CRPG greats (yes, it's a CRPG)
Maybe at some point, not plans right now
CORRUPTION 2029 can be challenging. You get limited resources and build options, you're always outnumbered, and the enemies quickly become more powerful than you as progress. It forced me to use a lot of stealth and strategy to win.
Have you done a list of the best console ports of CRPGs?
I havent tried enough of the console ports to make a list
Honestly if I play Kingmaker again (and *when* I play Wrath of the Righteous again) I'm turning off kingdom/crusade management. Just not interesting/fun/engaging mechanics to me.
BG1's Durlag's Tower is a textbook example of how NOT to do a dungeon for your friends.
For real. The fact that interactible objects aren't highlightable is so idiotic. Without internet I would have never been able to do it
@@AhbibHaald Yeah, its also the fact that, at first, the dungeon lures you in with the promise of environmental storytelling. Unravel the story of a dwarf that went mad with grief? Awesome!
Then you get to the third floor and start wondering HOW did he manage to put a huge dragon skeleton, a chess puzzle and an elemental puzzle while grieving his family.
Sure, it might have an explanation, but I dont think real players at a table would buy it and neither did I. Left the tower and had a far more enjoyable time!
Nah, Durlag’s Tower is one of the best dungeons I’ve ever played through. You just have to approach it with the mindset of an AD&D mega-dungeon.
@@mrcopycat2355 In a modern story dungeon sure, but it’s fairly par course for an old school mega-dungeon.
@@mrcopycat2355 as the commenter above me put it, it's a type of old school dnd fantasy dungeon. It doesn't need to make logical sense all the time and yet convey the story in a real way. The RUclipsr Josh Strife Hayes summarized the feel and tone of Baldur's Gate perfectly. "You are both there in grounded reality and heightened fantasy"
Personally i feel that on the surface, the Forgotten Realms is a very grounded fantasy but underneath, there is world plenty of magic and mystery and it's that combination that makes it special.
Guess it's time to re-visit PoE2. I breezed through POTD when the game first came out. Think I finished it in 35 hours in a semi-completionist fashion. It got too easy at one point then I was surprised with how short the Main Story was. Seems like they've added some good end-game content and optional boss fights to it, and tweaked the difficulty.
Tyranny was great, I know exactly that fight you're talking about at the end of Act 1. I had to reroll characters like 3-4 times before I was able to get a comp that could win that fight. Probably one of the single hardest boss fights of any game I've ever played. Ramza vs Weigraff in FFTactics is another one that comes to mind. How many bricked games did you have because of THAT fight bc you forgot to save prior...
I actually disagree on DOS:1. While difficult, much like DOS:2, the higher difficulties are about setting up favorable map situations early (Ambushes, CC, etc) and once you hit a certain point your team just steam rolls the content. Especially if you run a Lone Wolf set-up where your two demi-gods just wreck everything almost the entire game. Highly recommend doing a Skeleton + Fane Lone-wolf run in DOS:2 if you haven't done one. INSANELY fun!
To think that some idiots in Kotaku and IGN get paid to BS ppl. You do justice here man, I can tell you are actually passionate aboute these games
I love owlcat games but I wish they made their extra activities you have to manage totally optional.
Knights of the Chalice 2
Agree about Underrail and that Original Sin 1 is a lot harder than Original Sin 2. I can't comment about Deadfire because I looked at what Ultimate mode meant and laughed. I couldn't even imagine it. Your number of people who have won it that way is higher than I would have expected. Kingmaker, on the other hand, I didn't play until after the Wildcards DLC was out and really liked those characters. And having them in my party trivialized the rest of the combat. One of them would do about the same damage as all the other characters in the party put together. It was like the companion quests where a single companion did the fighting while everyone else just stood back and watched. And I generally liked the kingdom management stuff, so that didn't add to the difficulty for me.
I feel both Pathfinder games require a large degree of foreknowledge in character building, on top of the time limit for main quests. Both damn, do you feel great when you overcome certain challenges (but seriously fuck the vilderavn).