What the Caitlin Clark Coverage Says About the Growth of the WNBA | The Ryen Russillo Podcast
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- Опубликовано: 4 июн 2024
- Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan discuss the heated debate in the media surrounding Caitlin Clark, what it means for the WNBA, and how it’s covered in the mainstream sports media.
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Finally a nuanced discussion on the topic rather than a rage bait yelling match
Nuance foh van let him get that racist bs off
Good discussion. I think they’re hittin the nail on the head!
Russillo is simply the best. Nails almost every topic.
Facts
ESPN NBA coverage doesn’t even include all the NBA teams much less the WNBA.
what are you talking about, the NBA only has 8 teams: the Celtics, 76ers, Knicks, Mavs, Kevin Durant, the Warriors, LeBron James, and the Lakers. Ridiculous that you think there is others.
@@jamesmarshall6619😉🤣😂🤣😂
Hilarious and great takes. This made me a Van Lathan fan!
Definitely check Van’s other stuff out. Really thoughtful dude that does a great job of conveying his takes.
Will do! @@OEx25
The Dodgers and Yankees are the two marquis franchises in baseball. They are number one in their divisions. The Dodgers have Ohtani and the Yankess have Judge and Soto. All three are home run hitters and Judge leads all of MlLB in homers. They are also in the two biggest media markets. Now, consider that First Take is doing more WNBA segments than MLB segments. It's a winding river.
Just an FYI for folks, men watch the wnba in higher numbers than women. We've always watched but the overall viewership has been growing and now clark is bringing in a new audience
Aaaand that will slowly trickle back down to nothing. The underlying product is atrocious. One star player who isn’t even that good won’t save a bad product. From a financial perspective it’s shocking the nba still subsidizes them, any other corporation with a brain would’ve cut it decades ago.
They won't need help anymore and i would say the nba corporation are doing fine. They just signed a 70 billion dollar contract.@ldmb1966
Where the hell did all these long time WNBA fans come from?
Some folks have always watched the game (I started during the pandemic) but the engagement wasn't there for it to really be spoken about on these pods/shows. ESPN no longer sets trends they just follow them which is why despite the WNBA showing growth year after year before Caitlin and Angel they didn't really speak about the WNBA.
It’ll trickle back to obscurity around nba free agency time. It has no future, will be continually subsidized by the nba.
Significant numbers of "long time" WNBA fans?.. Where?
Name them!
There has been hella drama in the last 5+ years in the WNBA off the court. It's not covered by the mainstream sports media because those in charge weren't interested. Look up lesbian WNBA drama, and you'll see some wild reality TV level of drama.
If none of the people are independently noteworthy it won’t matter. Clark is the first to be noteworthy in and of herself
The Exact Problem is that We try to coddle women’s Feelings instead of telling the truth.
Russillo and his guests are always so refreshing. Very respectful and insightful takes 9 times out of 10. The Kendrick Perkins bit about him switching takes during the American Revolution is my all-time favorite bit, from one of the recent vids with Bill
Stephen A made the claim who does more than me is why she responded that way.
Rusillo stays spitting
I think it’s fair to say that they could explore topics like the WNBA instead of the 297th Dak Prescott conversation…. In friggin May. Part of the business piece is trying new things to see what sticks.
Look at Jomboy, their segments on lip reading and breakdowns are awesome. Dude gets into Cricket at an insane level and makes it entertaining.
I think it’s an overly simplistic argument to say that we only need to cover what the people want when you’re trying to fill dozens of hours of content per week. Try new things to see what sticks. You don’t need to have charity segments to elevate women but you sure as heck don’t need more Cowboys content either.
You don't hide a product, make the product difficult to access and then say "no one wants this product". People do want it they don't want to have to search high and low for it. Like how is that so hard to understand.
You can "hide" a product. These channels have to want to air it, and have to want to talk about it. People not wanting to promote the product is not the same as hiding it. You basically agree with Monica Mcnutt then.
Love the educated, informed conversation. Ryen please advise the WNBA President to look at Angel McCoughtry’s interview. She acutely gets it. Indiana please pick this woman up if you would like to protect your asset.
Good points. Thanks
I love this channel.
I think it’s well within bounds to discuss what kind of entertainment already does well with women. The fact that women overwhelmingly consume reality tv content is a very interesting factor that nobody seems to want to touch.
I’m a hockey fan and nobody talks about the NHL. ESPN begrudgingly talks about it now because they have the TV rights but don’t touch it until the playoffs. WNBA fans need to stop whining as they complained for years that nobody watched their product. Now they have a player that is resonating with the casual fan, and they whining and psychoanalyzing why? Be grateful that you are in the news and endorse Clark because she is your meal ticket. As a hockey fan, Gretzky was the last NHL player that resonated with masses and he retired in 1999. The worse thing they can do to Clark is tear her down out of jealousy.
As for Baseball, they have idiots running it. Last night you had the Dodgers/Yankees play last night. That is a possible World Series matchup. What channel is it on? AppleTV+, a streaming network that very few people have.
So money over ethics and drama over sports....got it. Now we are like social media crackheads. Sports has been ruined.
Steph got beat up when he was embarrassing people too. Keep going CC… start shimmying and really wind them up.
That hat is fresh
It says that the WNBA can also be a league that makes most of it's coverage about stuff that isnt the actual game just like the NBA!
Good talk
I think there is an underlying point here with the Steve a Monica exchange. Steven a is not respecting Monica EXPERTISE! Any male professional athlete that he debates with He will prefix his statement by saying something like “ hey man, I know you been in the league x amount of years and I respect that “ then he goes into his “ take “ She is an expert and KNOWS what she is talking about. But He has never said that to any Female former player like he is still above it. These Females can throw hands bro. I bet my last dollar that Mcnutt and Ogwumike would both mop walk him in high heels shoes. He won’t talk to a former male athlete like that. It’s disrespectful for him talking about a sport that people put their heart and soul into.
I agree with ur point but ur wylin if you think either of those women could fold SAS like a cheap lawn chair 😭😭😭
@@malimamba we've seen SAS throw punches, I'm not saying the women will win but I'm not going to bet my house on SAS winning either.
I think the “WNBA can’t have charter flights until they earn positive revenue” is a bit of a canard. This whole flights issue came up when the NY Liberty were nearly expelled from the league for secretly paying for charters on their own dime b/c their owner, like the Aces’, was a billionaire for whom a private jet is a rounding error. (And recruiting tactic.) This final charter plan required Caitlyn Clark b/c the old-time, penny-pinching owners thought the billionaires paying out of pocket was a competitive advantage, and demanded a communist WNBA-funded plan. Which is absurd. The WNBA is a young and cheap enough of a league that such spending straightjackets and NBA-style salary cap for parity is premature; if some teams can’t keep up, sell to richer rich guys willing to lose/risk more chump-change millions for a passion/vanity project. (Why do you think all those WNBA stars made most of their fortune playing for Russian oligarchs in the offseason? Do you think those teams “made money”?)
WNBA’s at a point where teams should be willing to spend money to boost team valuations, not balance the year-to-year books. On a pure profit+loss prospective, Joe Tsai loses way more annually running the Nets than the Liberty. But being $10m in the red every year is beside the point when the value of NBA franchises is doubling every decade, and Tsai will get a $2 billion profit at least whenever he sells . To get to that point, WNBA needs to look beyond the annual accounting results.
Proves that an unknown commodity is more hyped than a proven one that happens to be Black and plays in Vegas who should be acknowledged as the face of the W
If its about CC and whats happening nowz how come every time they bring up viewership or numbers based on ratings, its always followed with "Since" and not "Ever" ??? Meaning the most viewed game since a certain year and now its the biggest game Ever? That immediately tells me the eyeballs was there at one point so what changed.
Piece of sensational white milk for Kate Upton is WILD😂 Current one is Paul Skenes dominating as a rookie pitcher and he’s with Livvy Dunne
Did he just take 10 minutes to say “baseball has too many Hispanic players to be mainstream”
Here's what u people are missing . Catlin Clark was making SHOTS but somebody DECIDED it was worth covering . And that's how she CAUGHT fire !!!
The talent in Women's BASKETBALL was always there . .You just refused to cover it . For whatever reason u decided to cover it under CATLIN..
IOWA is a small market ......Yet u figured out a way to cover her anyways
These 2 are being so disingenuous here. One they're acting like it wasn't already a market that was SEARCHING for ANYONE to cover the W and WBB as a whole. They also acting like that if the game would've been spoken of more and promoted more that that wouldn't bring in more eyes.
Totally false. Plenty of successful ncaa women's players have been covered before.... Clark is the all time leading scorer. People like 3 pt shooting
Baseball was an American league and now it's not
Proof that it's about Caitlin? The caption of this video features Caitlin. He's talking about the WNBA while featuring Caitlin. Everybody is getting some shine by way of Caitlin.
Yeah…she’s a white girl in a predominantly white country with a game and physique that little girls can emulate. She’s the golden goose. If those other players kill it, there won’t be a WNBA in 10 years.
Matt Kemp and Rihanna another recent one.
This hype could turn out to be the same as the Ronda Rousey or Danica Patrick coverage. Only time will tell if she's the real deal or not.
Rousey was kinda legit tho. I mean she fell off hard but her run was great
So your claiming Reese "Flopped" on that play with AT, is that right?
Every basket a WNBA player makes doesn’t generate 10 kWh of power. There’s no reason for them to even suit up if the audience isn’t there. These women need to lose this chip on their shoulder, or they can go right back to irrelevance again.
I love boxing too
Really nuanced and well-thought-out take here.
I've heard more wnba news in the last month than the last 20 years combined. However, i have no idea which teams are good. I haven't heard about good games or matchups or great performances. All i have heard about is the drama. So there still is zero wnba coverage.
Usually half of sports talk radio is about the sports and the other half is what i call 'man drama.' I am kind of saddened that 100% of wnba coverage is 'lady drama', but i am not surprised and it just adds to the broader body of evidence that no one likes the wnba PRODUCT.
Seriously, who do you think is the best team? What has been the best game of the week? Which player is on a heater?
No one knows. Its like a riddle that cannot be solved.
Lol your whole segment today just supports my point. Lady drama.
Paul Skenes is dating Livy Dunne lol dumb point
Is that…. Kanye?😂
It was already super entertaining… Wtf? Obviously not!
protect Caitlin Clark protect players
what Stephen A did is what’s become a issue in media, dudes be afraid & tiptoe around how people(women) feel about something you say so you attempt to qualify every statement and in the end you look worse. just say what you feel is the truth and deal with the responses.
Who cares if Angel or Caitlin like or dislikes each other? Women do not have to like each other. This isn't pre-school! This is professional competitive sports! Why are men so overly emotional about this sh*t? 😅
It is SIMPLE. IF folks wanted to promote and push the W beforehand all they had to do was actually put out there for people to see. There has been a market for WBB and the market has been growing at a 40% clip every year for the last 15yrs with little to no help from the sports media world.
FYI -I have Clark at 9th best player this year so far by this metric. They should have given the slot to Clark over Taurasi
Add up PTS + ASTS + STLS + BLKS + RBDS Subtract TOV, Fouls Here the top 12 player list as of 6/8/2024
Rank PLAYER Net
1 BREANNA STEWART 374
2 A'JA WILSON 348
3 NAPHEESA COLLIER 344
4 DEARICA HAMBY 314
5 SABRINA IONESCU 294
6 ARIKE OGUNBOWALE 292
7 KAHLEAH COPPER 280
8 JEWELL LOYD 271
9 CAITLIN CLARK 269
10 JONQUEL JONES 269
11 ALYSSA THOMAS 268
12 DEWANNA BONNER 249
Go outside
lets go caitlin clark
I just can't see the WNBA ever becoming more than a niche league. Women's soccer and the WTA tour are just so much more interesting to me and I'm a huge fan of the NBA. I can easily argue that the best matches this entire French Open including Djokovic's two epic comebacks were infact Iga Świątek vs Naomi Osaka and Olga Danilović vs Donna Vekić. The whole recent hype around the WNBA just feels so artificial and calculated as if the network suits really want to sell America on it being must see tv. There is a chance a 17 year old girl might win the French Open this year which is a much more interesting storyline than this Caitlin Clark manufactured drama.
Catlin Clark has become the worst topic in sports. There is no discourse on Catlin Clark
There's no mention of Basketball stats or a true breakdown of her game of how she compares to her peers on the court! It's just fanfare BS!!
It’s sad that you downgraded the hit on CC don’t know which view you saw but let’s say some one 50lba heavier than you comes up from behind you and blindsided you with a full body shoulder and left hand push let’s see if you could stand up , physiologically your muscles have no time to react since you were totally blindsided said to see your version since supposedly you have truth
I dont quite know if id agree its clear she flopped. Weird. Usually ryens more thoughtful
Basically people care about Caitlin Clark not the WNBA.
It says that racism sells in America.
Perhaps. I would say it's the drama of conflict.
The WNBA is going to cool off to pre-Caitlin standards in a few months. Once the season is 3/4 way through and the Fever is a quiet 3-25, nobody is going to give a hoot anymore.
Besides that, where are all these men or women who "hates" the WNBA or Caitlin Clark? Are we judging by the Gen Z's in the social media comments just trying to get likes?
"on god Reese is gunna flatten Caitlin"
"Reese don't play like dat!"
"BRUH WNBA 100 SPECTATORS"
"AINT NOBODY GONNA WATCH REESE GO 2-8 AND GET 3 REBOUNDS"
And so on..
And I can't see the average WNBA player "hating" on Caitlin because of xyz, just because a few have done some dirty plays on her. Dumb narratives are created so quickly out of thin air, just for the sake of creating content.
If ESPN makes a random post about Reese or Caitlin, there's gonna be 100 comments within the second along the lines off "who are these women"... "nobody cares about WNBA".... "CAITLIN NO RINGS".... "CAITLIN IS 1-7 LOL"...
That's just how it is. It's insanely toxic, people at home have nothing to do but post dumb shit... and please the media don't get carried away with it. It means nothing.
You forget the underlying problem. WNBA is an atrocious product. There’s a very good reason people make fun of it when it’s compared to the nba…one of the most athletic and talented group of humans on the planet. And highschool men’s hoops are way more compelling and entertaining(and 1000x more athletic). It’s an unmarketable product. There’s a good reason it’s turned no profit in 3 decades and will only last on nba subsidies.
Oh, baseball has villains...Bryce Harper much?
Ratings may increase for now, but like Van says, people are watching for the drama. If the drama goes away, a lot of 'fans' will leave. ESPN is highlighting the drama, a lot of which involves violence, which isn't sustainable. CC won't be Jordan, but she will be very good. It's just not enough. If you are a parent or girl who is thinking of playing, why would you enter the bully factory? What are we rooting for, when we root for CC? Hoping she shows up the mean girls? Is there an element of rooting against a huge part of the league that resents CC? The are so many good sports that never get aired. Wide World of Sports would get more attention There are so many basketball leagues. Why do I want to watch layups? I am less inclined to watch WNBA. I have daughters. I don't want to be reminded about how vicious girls can be to other girls.
I find the Jomboy breakdowns far more entertaining than any actual contest of baseball I've ever seen. I used to broadcast high school baseball games, I've watched a lot of terribly boring baseball.
I think it was about this time last year where a bunch of wnba players wanted higher salaries "because the NBA gets more than us" and didn't understand how the finances of both leagues work and such and now the wnba players are seemingly incredible resistant to cc and to having all these new fans. It feels very much like the kids who liked a band "before it was cool" then a bunch new kids like them and you are all angry about it. Through Shaq mentioning lowering the hoops a touch to increase dunking and parker shooting him down because in 15 years she thinks he daughter will dunk to then the salary stuff and now everything with cc, they are SEEMINGLY not trying to help the wnba out as much as possible to watch it explode. Idk just my thoughts.
Baseball is failing because the best players aren’t dating models? Ok
You missed the point
@@iTuber012 it’s a ridiculously stupid point
No, baseball is lacking in popularity because the MLB has failed in marketing its best players. It’s the player’s job to be good at baseball but it’s on the league, at least in part, to turn their best players into bankable stars that casuals will care about.
The Angel Reese is part of the popularity too thing puzzles me. I will watch a game for Caitlin Clark, I couldn’t care less if Reese plays or not.
She's insanely popular and has a huge base of her own. Not Caitlin level, but I follow the Sky and tons of people were begging for more Reese coverage and jerseys to purchase on the website for days after the draft. Posts about her still double or triple engegement vs everyone else on the team. She's all over outside basketball media as well, Met Gala, concerts, etc. You're not watching for her but she's definitely growing the game in her own way.
Lol... This is so funny to me. You're not even self aware enough to know that the fact that YOU don't care about her, doesn't mean she doesn't register with a wider audience. So funny. All you need to know is the exposure plus all the endorsement dollars she gets should tell you that the people who actually matter and care about this are voting with their wallets
@@Lonigahi953 check ticket sales. You say people are voting with their wallets, but sales show far and away they’re using their wallets to see Clark, not Reese.
Whole segment not a word about the deplorables that follow clark
I don't know why journalists can't understand the one thing that's really obvious here. And yet, they studied communication. The public watches Caitlin Clark because she was constructed by the media. There was a media agenda. Her talent is great, huge... but the public watched because it was shown. Some will say "it's because her game is different, she's like Steph Curry." Ok. But Victor Wembanyama is not Steph Curry and yet he had the same hype in the NBA. Because ESPN and other medias created an agenda for him. The talent must indeed be there, but it must also and above all be shown on TV. If the American media had shown A'ja Wilson on TV after her title of finals MV, making comparisons like "she's the LeBron James of the WNBA", or "She dominates like Giannis Antetokounmpo"; people would have watched. That's the reality. We can say what we want, but in a century and a half that mass media have existed, people like what is shown to them.
I started watching WNBA because of Clark. There's definitely some good players and ball happening but the way Clark plays brings actual excitemet to the WNBA for me. Lots of the WNBA is simply average to slightly taller than average mens basketball playing bully ball. AKA me and my friends playing. I don't want to watch something I can see average people doing. Me and non of my friends can't shoot like Clark though. Make the rim 9.5ft and start dunking or shoots crazy threes. Yes I'm a casual but most are and that's who you get advertising funds for.
Compared to its beginning, the WNBA has gotten worse over the past 10 years. Practically nobody gave a d*mn about the WNBA, at least I haven't since Tameka Catchings, until now, when Caitlin Clark showed up. That is why Caitlin is the talk of the town, in every town - she's good and she looks womanly.
Black folks, like me, have gotten interested again in the WNBA since the advent of Caitlin to the league. Right now, I don't check for anybody or any other team, but Caitlin and Caitlin's team. If Caitlin ain't playing in the WNBA, I ain't watching the WNBA. That is true. Why? Because when I want to watch men's sports, I want the players to reflect good fundamentals and manhood. When I watch women's sports, I want the players to reflect good fundamentals and womanhood. That's why I check for Caitlin - she's d*mn good and she reflects womanhood. When she's gone, I'm gone.
Ps. I quit watching the NBA years ago. The NBA is so sloppy - traveling, carrying the ball, whining, flopping, shucking and jiving - it's unwatchable to me.
You really have to stop discussing wnba, no one cares about it.
You both state, and many do, that the WNBA product is "better" ... Explain how?
I still see a ton of missed bunny shots. O rebounds are the key metric because you get enough of them you eventually get a a bucket. The play is the same tired 90's half court play (with a few threes) mixed with what you all call "Physicality" which to my simply looks like unblanced foul calling on the part of Refs. Ticky Tack now, let players smack you in the mouth a minute later.
Explain how the product is better?
2:20 Saying that the audience is misogynist is the most disrespectful thing to say. Do you really think so badly of your audience? Like if we are a bunch of low level punks. We have reason why we dont like WNBA and maybe its not because we hate women...
Anyway, who really hates women man, no one except some very rare weird people. I dont know even one person that hates women. I love women. Still cant watch WNBA. Can we have the right to love women and hate the WNBA and not being portrait as a misogynist.
WNBA is unwatchable because their player are not mostly likeable. Its complaining, whining and bad behaviour with a product that is far lower than the g league. Thats why. Women are capable enough of doing a better product overall. Its just very poorly managed and women need to step up, and they can, and they will do it. Give them time. It is slowly evolving and by the way it has started to change little by little by exposing them like we do.
Agreed - I think that if you are one to believe that a portion of the audience who don't tune into the WNBA is misogynist... that's fair... Probably are some dumbasses out there who just straight up hate women. But anyone who blankets the entire disengaged audience as misogynist is a complete moron with victim mentality.
Why don't yall address the clear bigotry on display towards this poor girl, if she was blacc and going through this yall would be out of your minds
If she was black this wouldn't be a story at all.
Just embrace all the new fans you have now instead of bitching out nobody watching before…. Most female energy thought process ever 😂