I have a slight disageeement with the whole "moash became a caricature". I viewed him more as an "anti radiant". All the radiant oaths are about self reflection and becoming better. Moash the entire story after WoR is the opposite. Hes running from getting better at every point he can. Hes giving his essense, in a sense, to Odium so he can stagnate and not grow
It's pretty clear that Moash is fighting an internal battle over this and acting even more extreme as a result. It's similar to how people get radicalized in real life, he's so far gone that if he ever accepted that he made a mistake then he has to accept every bad deed he's done. So instead he denies and goes deeper and more extreme to justify to himself that he's right. It's the way of someone too cowardly to accept their wrongdoing. Venli's whole character in this book is her fighting against this exact thing actually
yes! and with his last scene in RoW, the emotions returning, his blindness and his reaction to that, i think we'll probably get at least a somewhat interesting conclusion to his story in WaT
27:20 I think of it as Kaladin failed to protect Teft but ALSO Moash. Kal feels like Moash turning is a failure of his, and that if Kal were to protect Moash it'd likey result in more people kal cares about dying
Thanks for the content! I’ve been doing my own re-read of storm light and RoW is still in last place after finishing all 4 again. HOWEVER it moved up from an 8 to a 9 for me on the re-read I think because of properly set expectations not dragging down the science scenes. I was prepared for them and trying to engage more this time and got a lot more out of them. Also felt better paced as a result of the expectations this time around, I actually thought certain parts were going to be longer but was pleasantly surprised at how much faster it moved along. Cheers!
I also recently finished a reread of RoW, and I actually found the moment where Radiant killed Ialai really well done. If I remember correctly, the exact sequence is that “Shallan reaches into her satchel and goes to grab Ialai’s arm” (not exact quote but I believe it’s roughly equivalent) but then “Radiant takes control and take Ialai by the arm.” I do agree that it’s a little clunky and could have maybe been emphasized more, but I definitely appreciated it more this reread.
There is that one theory from intros about 2 blind men sit at the end contemplating existence/beauty? And that moash may be one of those people. There has to be a reason those were his injuries
I’m a new reader just binged Stormlight, for me RoW felt like one long stall compared to the forward momentum of Oathbringer, which would have been a much less impressive book if it ended after Kholinar. It kept thinking okay Urithiru will take 1-2 Parts, then they join Dalinar to take over Iriali or take back Jar Keved or at least join with the honor spent to have a major battle with Ishtar? Dalinar was not only sidelined his climax was literally while being a ragdoll, a bit disappointing
I definitely enjoyed Rhythm of War more on my reread but I personally don't like the time jump too much. Sure we don't "need" to see them build the Knights Radiant but I feel like something is lost not seeing it. Oathbringer was building towards it the entire time and then with RoW we just skip to all the work being done. I do get the argument that there is a finite page count though.
Part RoW part 5 was good, but there is no way it beats Way of Kings part 5. You can argue it's apples to oranges but comparing the two TWoK is clean, powerful, and conclusive as a hero's journey where RoW leaves us hanging by so many threads. I personally will never forget Kaladin's first ideal at the tower. Still the best scene in any book imo.
Recently re-read all of Stormlight for Wind and Truth, RoW is unfortunately at the bottom despite enjoying it alot. I think for me its that each of the three predecessors has had strong main character plotlines, Kaladin's struggle to save his men and regain the person he was (TWoK), Shallan's coming of age story (WoR) and Dalinar's story of confronting his past and becoming a better person (O). There wasn't that story for me in RoW the closest would Navani's - realising her value as a scholar and also escaping the role her husband and society put on her. So, I feel like she should have had the flashback PoV, rather than Venli/Eshonai. Venli's story reads to me as just Dalinar's story again, moving past bad actions and so the flashback sequence felt wasted from a character perspective. I think the pursuer was interesting from a story perspective, in that as a cognitive shadow a piece of investiture, they become more sprenlike. Which has made his identity into a pursuer, but Kaladin strips it from him and poses the question what is he without that identity. It mirrors and inverts Syl's story of going from a spren with less plasticity to gaining more humanity able to explore a wider range of options. I'm most looking forward to reading Szeth's chapters and flashback in Wind and Truth, as I think that will be the main character arc and has the potential to be quite impactful on the level of the first three books. Where Szeth goes from truthless letting others dictate his actions to where he realises he must dictate them and cannot delegate this to another.
I never saw Moash as nuanced or complicated. He was always filled with rage and propped as an opposite to Kaladin in RoW, but he has no redeeming qualities. He was hurt and doesn't care about forgiveness.
The sibling was appropriately named. In this whole book, the sibling acts like a complete child. It was obstinate, stubborn, scared, frustrated, hurt from past wounds, and unable to see past its injuries to see the better choice, staring the sibling and everybody else right in its face. I was so irritated with the sibling!
I disagree with this sentiment very strongly. The Sibling is traumatized and isn't making all of the exact decisions we as readers want but it has very good reasons, from its perspective, for those choices. It's not a child throwing a tantrum, it's a being that has had some bad things happen to it and is scared and not always thinking rationally. It doesn't help that the situation they're in forces Navani to be overly forceful which causes the Sibling to be even more reluctant. Remember that to the Sibling the last time it trusted humans all Spren and Listeners had a fundamental part of them taken away. The trapping of Ba-Ado-Mishram by Melishi was a big deal.
I loved RoW, probably my favorite Stormlight book. Despite this I HATED Venli, what a dull sequence of flashbacks and unlikable whiny charachter. Navani and Raboniel carried it so hard for me personally, the science/magic fusion and the sharing of knowledge between the fuzed and humans was fascinating.
My reasons for liking Rhythm of War the least (it’s an 8/10) Hopefully this gap prevents spoilers Pacing is terrible due to flashbacks not starting till Part 3. Everytime the book gets going we have to interrupt with a flashback. If they started Part 1 it would be much less. Raboniel is introduced as a genocidal maniac and then shifts character and eventually helps Navani a lot. Her character is amazing but her initial setup doesn’t not gel with her eventual character. A lot of the plot twists are super predictable: the Cryptic deadeye, who killed Ialai(Mraize pretty much just says it a chapter or two later), the 4 nodes plotline. Shardplate reveal. The court case moment (super emotional and well written. But the reveal very predictable) Venli just isn’t a character. Each Stormlight book has their main character doing something huge at the end. Venli draws in Stormlight and Rlain and Leshwi do the rest. Kaladin is told his 2nd surge WORKS AND is highly important. And then he swaps it out for his main surge but worse The therapist plot line is an interesting idea that is just really boring to read The clunky progress that happened in Bands. Enemy throws highly technological advancement at the heroes and then just leaves it. I’ll admit this one is just a gripe. But it annoys me The ending of the book. We really get going once the oaths are sworn. And then there’s no big action piece. It just sort of ends. Still a great book and definitely some of the highest points in the series but on rereads I really dead reading Part 2-3.8. The end of Part 4 is amazing but all the in between is slow and boring to me I’ll also say each Stormlight book has been dramatically improved by the next release for me. So wind and truth might fix some of these issues for me
@@karloswald407 Thats what I guess too. Its odd that they feel the need to do that though. I mean, do people actually care what they are? I cant imagine people caring even the tiniest little bit.
Kaladin saved doctor-dad but couldn't save soldier-dad
I have a slight disageeement with the whole "moash became a caricature". I viewed him more as an "anti radiant". All the radiant oaths are about self reflection and becoming better. Moash the entire story after WoR is the opposite. Hes running from getting better at every point he can. Hes giving his essense, in a sense, to Odium so he can stagnate and not grow
It's pretty clear that Moash is fighting an internal battle over this and acting even more extreme as a result. It's similar to how people get radicalized in real life, he's so far gone that if he ever accepted that he made a mistake then he has to accept every bad deed he's done. So instead he denies and goes deeper and more extreme to justify to himself that he's right. It's the way of someone too cowardly to accept their wrongdoing. Venli's whole character in this book is her fighting against this exact thing actually
yes! and with his last scene in RoW, the emotions returning, his blindness and his reaction to that, i think we'll probably get at least a somewhat interesting conclusion to his story in WaT
I always forget just how much book is still left after the well. In my head it is always well then the final fight scene back to back
27:20 I think of it as Kaladin failed to protect Teft but ALSO Moash. Kal feels like Moash turning is a failure of his, and that if Kal were to protect Moash it'd likey result in more people kal cares about dying
Thanks for the content! I’ve been doing my own re-read of storm light and RoW is still in last place after finishing all 4 again. HOWEVER it moved up from an 8 to a 9 for me on the re-read I think because of properly set expectations not dragging down the science scenes. I was prepared for them and trying to engage more this time and got a lot more out of them. Also felt better paced as a result of the expectations this time around, I actually thought certain parts were going to be longer but was pleasantly surprised at how much faster it moved along.
Cheers!
I also recently finished a reread of RoW, and I actually found the moment where Radiant killed Ialai really well done. If I remember correctly, the exact sequence is that “Shallan reaches into her satchel and goes to grab Ialai’s arm” (not exact quote but I believe it’s roughly equivalent) but then “Radiant takes control and take Ialai by the arm.” I do agree that it’s a little clunky and could have maybe been emphasized more, but I definitely appreciated it more this reread.
There is that one theory from intros about 2 blind men sit at the end contemplating existence/beauty? And that moash may be one of those people. There has to be a reason those were his injuries
“Journey before destination you bastard” will never not make me do a mental fist pump
I’m a new reader just binged Stormlight, for me RoW felt like one long stall compared to the forward momentum of Oathbringer, which would have been a much less impressive book if it ended after Kholinar. It kept thinking okay Urithiru will take 1-2 Parts, then they join Dalinar to take over Iriali or take back Jar Keved or at least join with the honor spent to have a major battle with Ishtar? Dalinar was not only sidelined his climax was literally while being a ragdoll, a bit disappointing
BEN! awwww yeaaaaaaa!
I definitely enjoyed Rhythm of War more on my reread but I personally don't like the time jump too much. Sure we don't "need" to see them build the Knights Radiant but I feel like something is lost not seeing it. Oathbringer was building towards it the entire time and then with RoW we just skip to all the work being done. I do get the argument that there is a finite page count though.
Agreed
Part RoW part 5 was good, but there is no way it beats Way of Kings part 5. You can argue it's apples to oranges but comparing the two TWoK is clean, powerful, and conclusive as a hero's journey where RoW leaves us hanging by so many threads.
I personally will never forget Kaladin's first ideal at the tower. Still the best scene in any book imo.
Ooh been waiting for this one.
Recently re-read all of Stormlight for Wind and Truth, RoW is unfortunately at the bottom despite enjoying it alot. I think for me its that each of the three predecessors has had strong main character plotlines, Kaladin's struggle to save his men and regain the person he was (TWoK), Shallan's coming of age story (WoR) and Dalinar's story of confronting his past and becoming a better person (O). There wasn't that story for me in RoW the closest would Navani's - realising her value as a scholar and also escaping the role her husband and society put on her. So, I feel like she should have had the flashback PoV, rather than Venli/Eshonai. Venli's story reads to me as just Dalinar's story again, moving past bad actions and so the flashback sequence felt wasted from a character perspective.
I think the pursuer was interesting from a story perspective, in that as a cognitive shadow a piece of investiture, they become more sprenlike. Which has made his identity into a pursuer, but Kaladin strips it from him and poses the question what is he without that identity. It mirrors and inverts Syl's story of going from a spren with less plasticity to gaining more humanity able to explore a wider range of options.
I'm most looking forward to reading Szeth's chapters and flashback in Wind and Truth, as I think that will be the main character arc and has the potential to be quite impactful on the level of the first three books. Where Szeth goes from truthless letting others dictate his actions to where he realises he must dictate them and cannot delegate this to another.
I never saw Moash as nuanced or complicated. He was always filled with rage and propped as an opposite to Kaladin in RoW, but he has no redeeming qualities. He was hurt and doesn't care about forgiveness.
The sibling was appropriately named. In this whole book, the sibling acts like a complete child. It was obstinate, stubborn, scared, frustrated, hurt from past wounds, and unable to see past its injuries to see the better choice, staring the sibling and everybody else right in its face. I was so irritated with the sibling!
I disagree with this sentiment very strongly. The Sibling is traumatized and isn't making all of the exact decisions we as readers want but it has very good reasons, from its perspective, for those choices. It's not a child throwing a tantrum, it's a being that has had some bad things happen to it and is scared and not always thinking rationally. It doesn't help that the situation they're in forces Navani to be overly forceful which causes the Sibling to be even more reluctant. Remember that to the Sibling the last time it trusted humans all Spren and Listeners had a fundamental part of them taken away. The trapping of Ba-Ado-Mishram by Melishi was a big deal.
I loved RoW, probably my favorite Stormlight book. Despite this I HATED Venli, what a dull sequence of flashbacks and unlikable whiny charachter. Navani and Raboniel carried it so hard for me personally, the science/magic fusion and the sharing of knowledge between the fuzed and humans was fascinating.
My reasons for liking Rhythm of War the least (it’s an 8/10)
Hopefully this gap prevents spoilers
Pacing is terrible due to flashbacks not starting till Part 3. Everytime the book gets going we have to interrupt with a flashback. If they started Part 1 it would be much less.
Raboniel is introduced as a genocidal maniac and then shifts character and eventually helps Navani a lot. Her character is amazing but her initial setup doesn’t not gel with her eventual character.
A lot of the plot twists are super predictable: the Cryptic deadeye, who killed Ialai(Mraize pretty much just says it a chapter or two later), the 4 nodes plotline. Shardplate reveal. The court case moment (super emotional and well written. But the reveal very predictable)
Venli just isn’t a character. Each Stormlight book has their main character doing something huge at the end. Venli draws in Stormlight and Rlain and Leshwi do the rest.
Kaladin is told his 2nd surge WORKS AND is highly important. And then he swaps it out for his main surge but worse
The therapist plot line is an interesting idea that is just really boring to read
The clunky progress that happened in Bands. Enemy throws highly technological advancement at the heroes and then just leaves it. I’ll admit this one is just a gripe. But it annoys me
The ending of the book. We really get going once the oaths are sworn. And then there’s no big action piece. It just sort of ends.
Still a great book and definitely some of the highest points in the series but on rereads I really dead reading Part 2-3.8. The end of Part 4 is amazing but all the in between is slow and boring to me
I’ll also say each Stormlight book has been dramatically improved by the next release for me. So wind and truth might fix some of these issues for me
What's the "HE/HIM" thing about beside their names?
those are called pronouns
@@karloswald407 yeah but why?
@@MrSalubrioused so people know their pronouns is my guess
@@karloswald407 Thats what I guess too. Its odd that they feel the need to do that though. I mean, do people actually care what they are? I cant imagine people caring even the tiniest little bit.
@@MrSalubrioused maybe people wouldn't care, but it doesn't affect me in the slightest so i'm not bothered.