This $2,000 Hackintosh SMASHES the $4,000 Mac Studio
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- The Mac Studio is an impressive computer-but is it still the fastest Mac in 2023?
Our Build:
Intel i7-13700K - snazzy.fm/Vy
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If you optimize the 13700K just right, you can get respectable efficiency! Mine gets a Cinebench score of 28000 with a power draw of just 165W. That's just a 7% loss of performance with a massive drop in power draw.
oh hey there, didn't expect you over here! 👀
Are you hackintoshing then, or was that Cinebench on Windows? Personally, I'm sure an AMD would have done much better here, *but* that's harder to setup with OpenCore if even possible, so it's good to hear there's room for a bit of power efficiency
Yes Under Voltage CPU Help It. Same Performance 💖
I get no performance loss from my 13700K with a Proxmox VM Hackintosh, Cinebench 30600 (same as when I bench it in bare metal Windows). Undervolted with the same low power draw as you. No tweaking/optimizing required.
well well .. can you work in silence? I do and to me that is an achievement!!! and also do you have all that power on a battery? i guess not... hahaha
@@davidg5898 How much do you undervolt it? I have a 13700K as well and haven't properly tuned it in yet.
Mentioning you used to be able to “create a hackintosh in minutes” lol. I’ve lost days of my time to debugging my hackintoshes over the years even with those “easy” tools. Appreciate the video, I’ve given up on the hackintosh dream and have been living the m1 life for a while now. I do miss the performance more often than I thought I would.
You know you can add an eGPU to Macs right? Throw a 4070 in there for your docking station haha
OpenCore takes a bit to get setup, but once they're setup, it's pretty darn seamless. I'm impressed with how far they've come.
@@tbonedude12 but MacOS doesn't support Nvidia graphics cards that new?
Almost every problem I have had with a hackintosh that wasn't just solvable by effort (like taking time to set up USB) has been with the GPU. Get a 580 or 5600XT/5700XT and test out boot flags. This goes for both AMD and Intel systems.
Haha, it took 3months for me
I planned on buying parts (today) for a 10th gen build, because I believed it was the last officially supported generation of Intel CPUs, but after seeing this, I may have to change that up. Thanks for the excellent video.
To be honest considering that macos can't differentiate between p and e cores, is there any other significant reason to get the newer generation chip?
@@osamabinlaggin69 MUCH higher IPC even on the E-cores.
@@cinebenjamin 13th gen e-cores are not faster than 10th gen p cores
@@toseltreps1101 Yeah, but even without optimisation and proper scheduling, the improved single core and multicore is still there, as shown in all the benchmarks in the vid.
@@osamabinlaggin69 when you do proper MT it doesn't need to know the difference, it matters mostly for games
The Open Core team have done some great work. I just recently used the Open Core Legacy Patcher to install Monterey on a Mid 2011 iMac that I upgraded the GPU on. Full metal support and everything works brilliantly. Next step is to upgrade the BT / WIFI adapter to allow support for Handoff / Airplay / etc.
I have a mid 2012 macbook pro do you think it is possible for me too to install monterrey too?
@@RamonNunezReyYup! I just Open Cored my Mid-2012 i5 MBP to Monterey and it works flawlessly. It’s smooth, drivers work, and there are no bugs that I have found.
I was using open core on my 2016 MacBook Pro, and everything was working fine, till it wasn’t! My MacBook froze and wouldn’t start! I had to wipe it and do a fresh install (I had a Time Machine backup). In my experience if you use your Mac for work school or anything important then treat lightly using open core. Other than that, have fun 👌
Oh man you brought back memories of using a Hackintosh. I do not miss messing around with custom config files. Excellent work!
Just about finished upgrading my whole family's old Haswell based hackintoshes to 10th gen Intel and Big Sur - five PCs with my own PC triple booting. There's almost zero point (unless you really need it) bothering with Monterey or Ventura as Apple have been stripping out hardware driver support with each more recent version, with all the focus understandably being on M1 development - this can make things like bluetooth, wifi and even ethernet trickier to get working and less stable generally for no appreciable benefit since BIg Sur still got a recent security update. Also of course as Apple deprecate older hardware there's no point them including drivers for that hardware in a current OS - but from a hackintoshing point of view this limits your options. For me 10th gen Intel with Big Sur is the sweet spot.
Also Quinn I'm not sure if you just lucked out or maybe you missed explaining that you can no longer fix your USB port limit issues AFTER installation with USB mapping - this needs to be done before you create the installer so you have your USBToolBox.kext and UTBMap.kext )or equivalent) - specific to the hardware you intend to install on - before you attempt to install.
Far and away the easiest way of doing this is with USBToolbox - created by dhinakg of Opencore dev fame - on Windows. This is actually the biggest headache in the process IME, because you have to figure out which of your allowed 15 ports you're going to keep. Mind you its not that tricky as the 15 port limit is per controller and your higher end motherboards tend to have two or three controllers. Also it's pretty simple to sacrifice unused internal USB headers and also switch off the USB 3.0 port where you know you're only going to connect USB 2.0 or 1.1 devices or vice versa. Anyone interested should search for "chriswayg" on gitbook and "USB Mapping on Windows" - his Opencore Visual Guide is generally very good and highly recommended in conjunction with the Dortania guide.
I WASN'T planing to do a Hackintosh... until I watched this video! Now I'm seriously contemplating it!
I honestly could not care less if it continues to support the latest MacOS. For stability and compatibility with software and peripherals, I always stay a minimum of 2 full versions behind current version anyway. The machine that I pay the bills with is still using Mojave, and I have no intention of updating that any time soon!
IMO Big Sur is the sweet spot amongst current OS versions for hackintoshing - this has to do with the drivers built in to Big Sur that were removed by Apple for Monterey and Ventura. It's not that you can't get things to work, they just aren't as stable - so I'm just about to downgrade my wife's hackintosh back to Big Sur from Ventura because she's been plagued with wifi and bluetooth disconnects. Of course such issues are very specific to the brand and model of the ethernet/wifi/BT card or NIC which depends on the motherboard.
. Totally agree with staying well behind with Mac versions - people coming from Windows are understandably anxious to stay absolutely up to date, at least with security updates, but that's not been my experience on Macs for the last 30 years. Of course it depends on what kind of risks you take with stuff online.
Up until recently I was also using Mojave - mostly because I have some 32bit control panels that control some audio outboard - but then I realised I could run the 32bit Windows versions of these via Crossover on Big Sur.
Exactly. I still run a Yosemite hack. Rarely ever should your decision to build a hack be based on future OS upgrades. It should be based in part on whether the OS of choice supports your workflow and that there is a healthy development environment for software.
I do tech support and my ethos is to make things faster/more stable without disrupting my client's workflow. Sometimes that means helping elderly people who still use floppy disks.
@@peppermintpig974 that's impressive. and it runs without any crashes even today?
I used to build many a Hackintosh bitd on generic stuff using Clover Configurator etc. They all worked, sometimes quite well. And then I switched to cMP 5,1's for 6 or so years, all good, all supported with some tweaks.
However, for the first time ever I've picked up some second hand PC stuff thats fairly supported, studied the Dortania guides and spent a week building a new Hack. And it just works, the guides are fantastic documents on how Macs work- some of the best written technical docs I've ever encountered.
I built an 8th Gen HackMac using an i5-8600K on an MSI board with an RX Vega 56 GPU which worked great and was strangely easy to get working using OpenCore. Recently upgraded to an i9-9900K (2nd hand from ebay) for seriously improved performance. But, seeing your successful 13th Gen build has given me hope.... Sadly, I cannot afford Apple silicon just yet so I guess its time for another upgrade...
Fun little experiment-thought about doing this many times. May still do it. That thermal difference is a huge difference in limited spaces. My 12700K/RTX 3080 rig heats up my space during the summer likes like a sauna. Not necessarily a reason to pick your platform, mind you, but a bit of a decision maker as to what device I boot up on any given day.
I bought a Mac Mini with a 10-core M2 Pro and I've been more than happy with it. I'm mainly a Linux user, but Asahi Linux drivers are in the works so I'll get back to Linux in a while.
One of the major factors for getting this machine was the power efficiency, as here in the Nordic countries, electric costs have sky rocketed. I used to have an FX 8350 and an R9 390 and it drew so much power when just doing pretty lightweight tasks.
My daily driver before the Mac Mini was an ASUS laptop with a Ryzen 7 3700U and the Mac crushes it. In a DIY xz compression tests the ASUS took 1758s to compress it when the Mac Mini did it in 864s, less than half the time. Decompressing that took 80s for the ASUS laptop and 32s for the Mac Mini. Yeah, not really saving that much in decompression, but as I have to compress software packages using `XZ_OPT=-e9` daily, it will save alot of time.
When compiling LLVM using a custom build script, it took the ASUS laptop 82min when the Mac Mini did it in 9min. That's 11% of the time the ASUS laptop took do compiling it. The ASUS laptop was 800€ new and the Mac Mini 1480€ with a student discount, but that's still worth the money for me as I'm saving alot of time without having a bulky desktop (my room is under 9m^2 so space is limited) and having way lower power draw than my old desktop.
macs suck for os use,.
OpenCore is such a godsend for old Macs as well. I don't know if I'd say OpenCore is "easy" for the average user but it's such an improvement. If OCLP expands or forks to PC hardware, it could be easy. Ironically I still edit on FCPX on my Mac Pro 2019 over my M1 Max too thanks to issues.
OCLP is a macOS patcher that will allow older macs to run macOS again. Yes it can allow older pc hardware to run too but it won’t create the necessary stuff like your EFI to boot macOS on your PC…
@@ajaxr the main thing is it’s a configurator, and if that experience comes to the pc side of things where you can create an OpenCore instance automatically by hardware detection, then it’d be truly easy
Yeah I still use my 2013 macbook air and its never worked better under Ventura. 4gb ram, 2 cores and 128gb storage with samsung T7 1tb.
I just built almost EXACTLY this machine. The 13700k is a beast.
NO WAY SAME. 13700k, nhd15s, torrent compact, 1000w good psu, 1tb 980 pro, AND i’m planning to upgrade to rdna2
Indeed it is!
True 13700 super i got my self KF dont need onboard GPU
@@robinenbernhard iGPU is a godsend for Troubleshooting - my AMD doesn't have one and I stress for the day I'll have to troubleshoot
@robin & bernhard Big mistake iGPU can encode and decode multiple video codecs better than Nvidia RTX4090
Hey! If anyone is having trouble editing their plist files, you can always use the easy method (which is not mentioned in the OC documentation probably because they want you to know how all this works + easier to trouble shoot) is to use OC Auxillary tools. It basically does it all automatically for you + easy updates once you are set up too
Trust me when I say you are more likely to encounter issues when using those automatic configurators.
It really is best to take the time to go through the official OpenCore documentation to follow each step in the process in full detail to ensure that you're setting up your install as compatibly as possible for your specific hardware.
@@massgrave8x OCat is fine for a config.plist file from scratch, it's just when you get one that was made in propertree and then modify it in OCat. That's when it's dodgy.
Great video, Quinn. I just sold my old Ryzen 3900X/5700XT hackintosh rig and assembled an all white NZXT build, same i7 13700K as yours and a reference black 6950XT. It looks clean and has phenomenal performance for the price.
Was going to install Ventura today on one of the NVMEs and your video just came out at perfect timing.
I totally agree on your vision about the future of Hackintosh. This may actually be my last one as well; can’t beat an M1 Ultra killer at half price.
I LOVE THIS KIND OF CONTENT!!! i build my first Hackintosh in 2008, and all this talk is nostalgic, i hope everybody keeps all this Hackintosh topic alive!
Love this vid and not shying away from the details and explaining things in an approachable way.
The entire time I was like, "yeah, but talk about performance per watt" and then you did, and i was like, "oh... I guess that really isn't much of a benefit," when you put it in terms of how long it will take to pay off the Mac Studio with the energy savings, it all made sense. I have a feeling like the more Apple increases the performance of each iteration of their in house silicon, they're also going to push that thermal headroom that they had going into this race, and eventually they'll be able to truly out perform a PC at the same power draw. But then they'll have to contend with the thermals of the machine, which they haven't been the best at when it came to intel based macs. Who knows, maybe they're doing R&D to figure that out.
That is assuming intel and amd stay stagnant. They won't.
@@thomasanderson5929 But we'd also have to account for future versions of macOS supporting x86_64, which I hope is the case for a while (considering they are still producing Intel Mac Pros), but none of us know for sure.
@@thomasanderson5929that’s not exactly true given that the “outperforming M1 Ultra Mac Studio” was by relatively slim margins for the most part. Which could be closed by optimisations, a higher TDP, more unified memory, and whatever else Apple is doing with their processors. Which, might I add, is still in its infancy while Intel and AMD have been at the processor manufacturing game for ~13+ generations. Also, as far as the biggest gap (gaming) keep in mind we didn’t see the M1 Ultra performance, just the M1 Max. Also, also, let’s not forget to mention that Apple is on M2 right now, meaning M2 max and M2 Ultra could close the gap a little more. I’m not saying that Apple is going to win anytime soon, soon but I know we’re not too far off from that potentially being the case. Lastly, I also understand that this take comes with a lot of “ifs” and they’re really going to have to hunker down and get to work to get all the kinks, but in reality that’s all that’s in their way if they keep going the way they’re going.
While the performance per watt conversation is certainly a thing, I don't think it's as important as actual raw performance. If I'm actually using a computer for work, let's say I'm compiling code or rendering video, speed matters more. If a client or a director or someone is breathing down my neck and wants stuff done five minutes ago, I'd rather burn 700 watts of power to get done now than wait longer and brag to them about how power efficient my computer is.
@@eruannster right, but it is important for future purposes because if they can still squeeze more performance into a smaller TDP that’s still a good thing. Not to mention, that just gives them more headroom if they want to push the M series chips as hard as it can go in the future. Of course, Apple will never let overclockers touch it, but it is still innovative to know that you can get similar performance with less power draw, and maybe intel or AMD can learn a thing or two. Which they have! Which is why intel started implementing Performance and Efficiency cores into their processors
It would be great to get a detailed guide on how to build a hackintosh. Really enjoy your format of content. I always learn something.
These are few drawbacks with your build:
1. macOS scheduler won't work well with Intel Gen12/13 P/E-core. Meaning that the single core performance might throttle to E-core performance. You would get the maxium multi-thread performance depending on your workflow/software.
2. All Samsung SSDs are bad in macOS, TRIM are not support natively. WD SN750/850 are the best for Hackintosh.
3. For Airdrop/Bluetooth/Wifi support, you have relying on an old Mac-specific wifi card
4. Sleep/wake are always the issue for most of builds.
Bought the MBP16 M2 Pro a ew months ago, likely will stay on this for the time being. The lack of future support kills my interest in building one of these.
I honestly just stopped using Mac altogether. Not interested in ARM or their locked up OS. The Intel based ones at least had way more options.
built a hackintosh ventura last week for my old pc. 8th gen 8600k. i was surprised with the performance with the iGpu. Windows 11 22h2 was lagging in some apps but the same apps running smooth in the hackintosh.
My biggest issue with a Hackintosh is that it's fool's gold. Some nerd talks you into putting together a Hackintosh for you, spends a day getting it up and running, leaves it with you, and everything's great until you run an OS update and the whole computer refuses to boot, and now you're entirely dependent on that one friend coming back to your house. Running a Hackintosh is for people who are fine with the idea of needing to hand-modify plist files and troubleshoot random issues that happen for no reason. It's cool for people who want to work ON their computer. That sounds like a slight but I don't mean it to. Some people like to tinker. Most people don't. I think it's a cool concept but I've seen regular people get talked into these and regret it.
1) one could pay someone to install it. 2) why the need to update so often? Most people who want hackintoshes are for audio or video work with tons of ram and hard drive and fast, not for updating and installing new stuff that require an update. I think so.
@@segundacuenta726 I'm not convinced that audio and video people don't want to do updates. Look at Logic Pro adding support for Dolby Atmos. However, I am a big fan of freezing a computer in time, for sure. You just have to ignore the new cool stuff, which can be hard.
At what point do you just get Linux or Windows instead?
Something else to consider is the heat that gets dumped into whatever room you are in. If you live in a hot and humid environment, the M1/M2 based machines will not contribute much to your AC bill. There’s a reason I leave my Mac on 24/7 but only turn on my Gaming PC when I’m actually gaming, especially in the summer 😂
Definitively didn't think this was possible, it's definitively been idealized in the RUclips tech world. Still, for laptops, the power efficiency really shines! And with the base M2 mini, there is some price/perf to be had as well. When the base M1 Pro 14" Macbook Pro came out, with its gorgeous screen and performance, it was really above everything else. Now that AMD is coming out with its 7840HS/U, and laptop manufacturers have much better screens and whatnot than back then, the competition has caught up. Still, for the people who bought it when it came out, the MBP is really aging gracefully
You can even get that Mac Mini footprint with the new AMD APUs as well. Several companies are selling NUC sized PCs powered by high-end Mobile APUs with DDR5 and RAID NVMe drives at very reasonable prices.
For almost a year, I used OpenCOre Legacy Monterey on my 2011 Mac MIni. It was amazing. Now that I have an M1 Mac Mini, I converted the 2011 Mac Mini to a Mint 21.1 Cinnamon machine. Both of these machines together have more oomph that I could ever use.
I have a hackintosh using opencore and an AMD 5900X processor, 6900XT GPU and 64 gig ram. The thing flies. Cooling is a custom loop with mostly EK gear so it also runs pretty silen. But its huge, compared to a mac studio anyway (Fractal Design Define 7 chassis).
What model of 6900XT did you use? Did you have to do the device id spoofing?
White builds are my favorite; I like to drown them in rainbow vomit RGB tho.
Since MacOS doesn't respect Intel's CPU design, what clock multipliers do the cores run at? I feel like you'd be super limited by the efficiency cores, no?
I think the other issue with a hackintosh now a days is the fact that in the low end the Mac Mini is actually competitive now. 500 dollars with the education discount and I don't think a better value could have been had.
i'd personally say that they wouldn't bother re-making DSMOS, controllers and other things just because a couple macs have the T2. They'll just build an x86 binary, adding x86 support as usual and not wasting their time with rewriting all security for the T2 for an architecture apple considers to be obsolete
Interesting. I'd like to see the performance of a Hackintosh with a new 56 core Xeon W with loads of RAM - at least 256 GB. Obviously it's going to be vastly more expensive than a Mac Studio, but how about a comparable Mac Pro?
Just read a review on that new 56 Core Xeon by Puget Systems, and unfortunately, the Intel chip gets beat by the Threadripper Pro despite the fact that Zen3 is several years old at this point
still running my hackintoshes since 2017... couldn't be happier. Upgradability was the key for me. Couple of upgrades along the way and it runs like new with latest MacOS.
I switched from bare metal to VM hackintoshing. *SO* much easier to set up. Performance equal to bare metal (better than bare metal for intel 12th and 13th gen, because the Linux host deals with heterogeneous core CPU scheduling). The only sacrifice is setting aside a few GB of RAM for the VM host. But RAM is cheap right now.
Want to share your exact setup for those that want to go down this path?
@@roscoecoltrane6867 The beauty of VM Hackintoshing is that the exact setup isn't really important. If you want to use a modern GPU, it has to be a compatible AMD card, but the rest of the specs/hardware doesn't really matter.
Most people get the best results with Proxmox, QEMU, or ESXi.
Awesome video! You should do an HP Ultra Mini PC hackintosh because that’s the similar footprint. For me though the M1 Mini is awesome, and it doesn’t currently give me any reason to want to build a hackintosh since I have a separate dedicated windows gaming PC. I run both my M1 Mini and my gaming PC on the same 55” LG OLED TV and I can switch between them with a single click of the remote. I did build a hackintosh back in 2016 because I was using it for heavy 3D computer graphics work, and I needed 128GB ram and multiple Xeon processors. But now, the M1 Mini is more than powerful enough to meet my needs. And stability on that old hackintosh was not good, and it was a pain in the butt to build and maintain. Also with the development of crossover for the mac, on the latest M2 Studio Ultra you can come close to getting frame rates on windows games that matches my current dedicated NVIDIA 3080TI Windows gaming PC. So I don’t see myself building another windows gaming PC in the future as I will probably end up getting an M3 Max Ultra and just running crossover instead. Also Windows 11 sucks. I’m still on Windows 10 because I can’t stand Windows 11.
This is a highly in-depth and well informed video. Great job!
Superb work doing this video, quite surprising results....wanted to see latest hardware performance in hackintosh.
I love your stance on M1. For me M1 is great but waaaaay overhyped. The only real benefit from M1 for most users is the great battery life for notebooks. But I look forward to what it’s potential is.
It’s awesome for small for factors such as laptops and it’s media engines for well certain media.
Isn’t the whole point of a laptop having great battery life 😂
Otherwise, why do laptops have batteries?
100% true. I believe that m1 macs are only good for battery and slight improvement in speeds.
I want to get rid of my macbook pro m1. I do prefer Windows interface over mac os
@@myp0h if you prefer window OS, then you were never really a mac user.
It has nothing to do with the laptop.
@@RunForPeace-hk1cu M1 specifically offers much better battery life compared to previous intel versions. A real plus for those that are cross shopping
My last hackintosh was built in late 2019. X299 system, gigabyte designare-EX in a Lian-Li case. I9 7940X, fully decked out 128gb ram. I think I spent around $1700 total. Shortly after that, prices skyrocketed after the chip shortage and high tariffs. It has been a great system. Running Ventura on OC .8.8
This. Very similar build here, X299 has been such a godsend allowing 128 gigs of ram it’s still a powerhouse and then I have my M1 Max for when I’m on the go. My hackintosh was expensive due to the amount of water cooling bits inside but I PC game also so was well worth it.
reminder to update your OC =)
I am using a 2006 Mac Pro case for my PC right now and I love it. But that Fractal case is looking really nice too. You may have gotten me to switch to that lol.
Ooh, I should buy an ancient, dead Mac Pro just for the case. Thanks for the tip 🙂
@@Pushing_Pixels fun project if your work is just tossing them out.
I used to keep Windows, Ubuntu, and MacOS on all my daily driver machines and boot into whatever OS best suited my workload for that day. I haven't installed MacOS in a long time, though. I think I'm going to try it again. Ya talked me into it. I'm going to make some room on my hard drive and see if I can get this to work. It would be nice to have that third option again when I want to edit a video or record my guitar. Windows does fine for that but I really love the MacOS options for media editing. Thanks for making this video. I had no idea this was a thing.
You forgot to mention how quiet Macs are - I really cannot overstate how awesome it is to have quiet at my desk since I switched to apple silicon from my old Intel laptop.
Depends on which one... the studio gets louder than gaming notebooks...
@@thomgizziz and you could decide for passive cpu coolers if you want absolutely 0 noise (only maybe coil whine if even..) And "old intel laptop" is not a good comparison in my opinion as nearly all "old" laptops were pretty loud imo and mostly changed in noise pitch (thinkpads and macbooks were deeper for example) today nearly every manufacturer tries to get it as thin as possible and then put some cooling in it which often is at its limit and smaller/thinner fans often have higher, more annoying pitch. Many modern laptops can run passively cooled if not much power is needed and the hardware is under a certain threshold. So I can watch youtube and write documents on an rog flox x13 (amd tho, not "old intel") without the fans even spinning. 🤔
I currently daily drive a spec'd out 2019 16" MBP. Currently dual-booting windows (for gaming) and macOS (for everything else). I think my next big system purchase could very well be to build this hackintosh, very likely out of used components. I love that you did this and I hope a Hackintosh is as stable as you claim it is. Also, thanks for pointing out how weird reviews of apple computers are. When the M2 macbooks were released I was confused as to why reviewers were hailing them as "the best laptops ever" when laptops with 40 series GPUs were already out and easily outperforming M2 macbooks.
Yup, apple grafix is a joke, 38 cores of sheet😂😂😂
I love how you explained everything....also your personality.
This is a great video but I wish you had compared it to the 2019 Mac Pro. Reason being these are now available on the used market for around 2/3rds of the retail price and can also dual boot to windows with the advantage of the same GPU support. I’m considering selling my hackintosh and Mac mini to consolidate into one Mac Pro dual booted
There are some geekbench multi core scores with a 7,1 running a 13900 that destroy all other Mac’s and almost every PC. I need to confirm compatibility but my god it would be epic to install a 4090 for bootcamp (and whatever AMD card for macOS).
@@markaceto I think they are a completely different socket as the cpus are different sizes
You probably can't wake up that Thunderbolt port from sleep either, unless that long-standing issue has been resolved.
Folks should also make sure they read the install guides before buying stuff. There are a lot of hardware compatibility concerns and issues so verify the parts you want will work.
This is the content that I subscribed to.
the main reason I have an OpenCore Hackintosh is I like using MacOS as a daily driver, but I also like playing games, so I dual boot with Windows. this sort of simplifies my life (apart from the fear of breaking stuff when I install Mac updates), and is cheaper than 2 computers. I have a 10700k, a 6800xt, and an Apple
Broadcom wireless card, and everything works apart from a few USB ports due to the aforementioned port limit
This was an great video. I like Quinn's unbias take on computing hardware and software. It makes him some you can trust.
I made it HACK on a Z690 board, it works under Ventura without any problems with 12th gen i5, I use the comp for Photoshop, mainly for heavy PSB files, I decided on this option because of cheap ddr4 RAM, 128 GB costs "pennies", most importantly NVME 4gen, reaches speeds above 10 Gb/s in raid, Total energy consumption under stress is approx. 170W when working at PS approx. 100W. I have been a Mac user for over 20 years, I always bought new Power Macs and later Mac pro products. They worked and still work without any problems, but after MP 6 something started to happen and these computers, despite their excellent performance, started to cost x2, offering much fewer extensions to the previous generation. For now, I treat it as a test platform, but after a month of work, nothing has happened, it works like a regular Mac.
The best moment to build a Hackintosh was two years ago. I built 4, everyone in the house use their own and they will pay off in a year or two when it will be time to move to M series Macs. My 5900X based machine is still fantastic daily driver for Xcode and I will move to Mac when it becomes an issue. Which is not looking to be this year.
Imo that size comparison was a little unfair given as it's very possible to build a mini-itx system. It won't get as small as the Studio, but it could be closer.
Also, I wish that you had considered applying a power limit to the CPU (and GPU). Yes, it can pull 350W but that is pushing it well past its efficiency curve. For example, in Cinebench R20 a 13900k using 318w is only 45% faster than a 13900k at 90W using Der8aurs data. Again, it won't get close but it puts a big dent into the power draw lead. Fundamentally those parts are enthusiast parts and enthusiasts don't care that much about efficiency so that's why they default to max performance at the cost of efficiency.
Intel and AMD are both investing into accelerators and APU's. It'll definitely be interesting to see how the market plays out in a few years as manufacturing node progress slows and Intel/AMD/Apple/Qualcomm are largely on the same node. Apple had a big advantage being the only TSMC 5nm customer for a while (until mid-late 2022).
Thank you for a very informative comparison video. You did an excellent job informing hackintosh noobs on the pros and cons of OpenCore. I should know as I finished upgrading my very old and dated hackintosh with a 10th gen motherboard last weekend.
But I have one complaint about your parts list. Your video glosses over the fact that most motherboards' built-in ethernet or Wi-fi chips won't be fully compatible with macOS and one would be better off installing an addon card with a better proven record. In 8:32 of your video, the back of your hackintosh also shows quite clearly that an add-on Wi-fi card is installed below the GPU with 3 external antennas sticking out.
Please share and clearly inform your subscribers on what card you used (and where to reference them) to make all AirDrop, iMessage, and such work. Thanks!
Also, not wanting to split hairs here, but the power supply is 1,000W, not 100W. I'm sure most of us subscribers would not be thrown off by such a minor typo, but you know how some people can be. ;)
Really impresive stuff. Makes me want to try it out. Also, real quick. It just works is very much a troupe. I work in an enterprise environment and I have learned first hand that it very much does not just work. Maybe for home users but not in my enterprise enviornment. It's honestly something I really wish Apple would address because the genral vibe I've gotten from them when talking to them is that that they just don't care.
Enjoyable video.
Couple of things.
1. Great parts selection, except for the inexplicably small SSD, which I hope you got a good deal on. Typically 2 TB SSDs are cheaper per gigabyte than 1 TB ones and they take up the same M.2 slot, so I just don’t see why you’d get 1 TB for a machine you’d actually use. I would have built a 13700K + Z690 Aero D + 64 GB DDR5 + (even, potentially, 6800 XT) build this week if the 7800X3D weren’t beating it in so many key areas: efficiency (by a country mile), raw gaming performance, anticipated future upgrade path (by another country mile), AND platform PCI express lane combined bandwidth. That leaves the 13700K relying on its (often small and perhaps nullified by more expensive cooling) price advantage and multithreading per dollar, along with Thunderbolt, bootleg MacOS compatibility, and I guess, buying from the underdog who is selling CPUs with low margins in order to compete, being the only factors I consider in the i7’s favor, and frankly I’d rather focus on a general-purpose gaming PC than check those niche boxes even though I am the owner of a Thunderbolt audio interface, the Apollo Twin X. I’m comfortable using optical audio from my PC and analog audio back in and just saving myself the headache of UAD software for Windows, along with actually getting and keeping Thunderbolt working. Linus says he’s moving away from Thunderbolt and toward optical DisplayPort and optical USB in its place because it just doesn’t work very well, with the possible exception of a string of Apple-blessed hardware. I don’t know - haven’t used extensively.
2. I am willing to admit I’m not the “market” for a hackintosh, even though I build computers and buy Macs. I look on enviously, but I don’t want to babysit a Mac, ever. For my Mac use case I don’t actually need a lot of raw power, and my M1 Mac mini can handle my musical workflow without a hitch. I don’t even need my M1 Max MacBook Pro, and could easily have saved money on an M1 Pro version without feeling the difference. Thing is: when I bought the MacBook Pro I wanted 32 GB RAM and 1 TB SSD for futureproofing/experimenting with games and VMs, and then it was only 15% more to move up to a maxed out M1 Max, which I also wanted for gaming, so I did. Now I don’t use it because MacOS game compatibility is so poor, and I find that when I do game, not only do I want it to just work, but I want to be on my desktop with the big screen, and for that to also just work, so long story short, Windows all the way. Can’t recommend that anyone bother checking bootleg MacOS compatibility when picking PC parts. Just focus on building a good PC.
Careful with 7800X3D, it has power issues and can fry.
Never been a huge Mac fan but opencore might convince me to give it a shot.
any current M1/M2 Mac should _really_ convince you. They are awesome machines, espeically the Macbook Pros. Period.
Only for noobs
I quit hackintoshes the day MultiBeast and UniBeast were no more, too much hassle with OpenCore.
Dont do it for real production work.
Did an opencore AMD build 1,5 years ago. I tried the multibeast approach 2 years before that. I found opencore to be way easier with the guide.
I did have some errors, but that was my own fault for not RTFM good enough. Still wouldn't use it as a production machine though.
For professional workflows I'd go with Mac Studio (or upcoming Mac Pro), independent contractors could try it to safe a buck or for private usage you'd try it. It was really fun to build and my gateway into MacOS (own MBP's 14" and 16" now).
The music at 01:00 slaps. Added even more class to the channel!
Thanks man!
I was considering building a hackintosh, but then I saw that the trashcan Mac pros came down in price a lot, and those fit my needs quite well. If it can easily run Photoshop, Lightroom, iZotope RX, and Logic Pro, then I'm good.
This was so interesting to watch, I honestly also look forward to Apple doing stuff with eGPUs. They are a great way for people to upgrade their existing Macs with much better GPU. We have thunderbolt 4 and stuff now, stuff is so fast. Let us have eGPUs!
not going to happen... you dont understand apple do you?
@@thomgizziz well, they had eGPU support until Apple silicon so…
He's not kidding that the Hackintosh process is fairly nuanced. One thing to be aware of is that not all motherboards are created equal. I use the ASUS Crosshair Hero (AM4), and while it is a good motherboard, it absolutely will not work with automated USB mapping tools. I had to use an XHC remap file in the ACPI folder to get the I/O to work. Also, I had issues with hardware conflicts and freezing because SSDT Time apparently didn't cover all the necessary bases. I didn't have a smooth running machine until I found someone on the AMD OSX website who knows more than me and used their EFI.
I recently got an old pc from an office and I really want to hackintosh it over the summer but it seemed like an overly complicated process until I watched this well timed video
This is a RUclipsr that’s passionate about tech. The video was informative.
It also smashes the electricity bill at the end of the month 🤣
Are you implying that the decreases power consumption makes up for the $2000?
15:05
Never heard anybody buy a $4000 to save electricity...
Besides the hackintosh doesn't have abnormally high power consumption compared to other PCs, it's just that the mac has very low power consumption.
@@snazzy never heard of Germany, huh?
@@PvtAnonymous Do not be dumb, even in Germany it does not pay and last 20% of performance cost way more tah 20% power. Check out your own deBauer
the metaphore you used with the conductor and musician is so fire. love that
X86 is Dead, Arm and RISC-V is the future !!!
arm can do many tasks well, but x86 is what you use to design the arm
Only if Microsoft provides Windows for RISC-V. Yes, it is available for ARM but not mainstream. The year of “Linux for desktop” has not come and probably will not happen in your lifetime.
@@ernstoud I Agree !
Just spent 2 days upgrading to a RX 6600 XT and 5600.... I was missing the smallest Bootarg code for the GPU... 2 days of kernal panics. If you have the money, just buy a mac, if you love tinkering and learning about computers and code and have A LOT of spare time - hackintosh! Another great video on the subject, sad when it dies.
really excellent, informative and comprehensive video, thank you buddy. My request do you have a step by step guide for building a hackintosh and which way do you prefer proxmox or native install ?
I wouldn't consider the current state of Macs to be "the best Apple has ever made" when they're basically unrepairable in many ways and still have alot of thermal issues. I've been a Mac user for over 15 years and I'm here watching this video for a reason.
I liked the fairness of how this was all compared. watt / power and needs / wants :)
i wonder what the 20/30% cost 80% solution is of that hackintosh, if it exists , likely utilizing used / refurbished parts in auction and some form of overclock/under clock / undervolt , whatever delivers best stable performance
I doubt that until the transition is complete we'll see a T2-only macOS release. Remember, the 21.5" iMac never had a T2 chip, and the 27" one only got it in its final release.
I have an old G4 DMD and G5 PowerMacs and it's tempting. My Hackintosh was state of the art in 2012. Upgraded the GPU in 2020, but, this is really tempting.
We want a proper video guide on Hackintosh using Opencore from A to Z! Please?
Specifically speaking about the energy consumption comparison segment, running a PC at 500 W/h would break the bank in England at the moment if you’re a regular PC gamer. Electricity cost kWh in the UK atm is insane.
I have in the past turned my old Lenovo T450s into a Hackintosh and it was right before the M1 MacBook pro 14 came out. Gotta say that it didn't take long until I switched to mac hardware, and bought the 14" MBP.
I think that this HackStudio can still be a relevant choice, I'd like to see a HackBook doing so well.
This is why I run Ubuntu on the desktop for my regular workstation and I use Mac laptops. I find that these Apple silicon laptops are the best laptops you can buy and it's not even close. But on the desktop side of things, they are not competitive with the competition in terms of performance and software compatibility. I built my desktop with a 3070 TI, 128GB ram, an i7-13700K, and 6TBs of SSD space. All for around half of the M1 Ultra studio and it kills it in everything but video editing which I don't do.
Dude, this video should be titled, understanding hackintosh. These things that you described I did not understand like the ahci and patching were valuable because I've been doing some of these things not really understanding how the pieces fit together but that they are simply necessary. Thank you for this
5th. WAY easier to resell your real mac to upgrade every few years... Keep the original box.. You can sell and ship with zero hassle. Also a small note about efficiency cores not being honored... This can be a bummer for single threaded workloads.
I've built an AMD Ryzen 7 5800X a few years ago, 128gb ram, couple of NVME's, RX6800 from Sapphire, and I have replaced the onboard Intel wifi with a supported Broadcom module (natively supported has airdrop etc just not sidecar but I don't care about that anyway) and it's been great, while my CPU lags behind a bit behind your CPU graphics performance is better, it's been serving me really well through Big Sur all the way to Ventura.
"Winter's Last Whisper" is an ominous name, seeming to imply this is the end of the line. However, the narration seems to skip around this issue a bit.
This build looks great and seems to performs exceedingly well. But I am compelled to ask directly: Does this Hack presently run macOS Sonoma v14? Also, is it expected to run macOS Sequoia v15 (speculative in the video, but perhaps more firmly known now)?
I see the present Mac Pro line-up uses the M-2, not intel. But the M-series chips are looking less promising by the build.
So, are we just burning-out the last of any intel support in OS X?
Are the issues regarding long term support any clearer today than they were a year ago? Also, given that this system is a year old at this point, is there another build you are considering?
Thank you.
BTW: I run MX Linux and Ubuntu, so if I build this or a similar OS X based system and the Apple OS support drops off, I can always migrate this system to linux. It's just that I have enjoyed playing with OS X occasionally since 2000, when they migrated from the old OS. And, I have built Hackintoshes in the past, it's usually a fun exercise. This system (or an updated version) looks like it could be a lot of fun. Thanks again.
1:25 I'm hopeful that the existence of the 2019 iMac without a T1 or T2 will mean that Apple will still support T-less Intel Macs for a year or two more at least. But you're right, besides those, if Apple drops support for 2017 Macs then every Intel Mac supported will have a T2. Even so, I also hope that adding the code to require the T2 chip is more work than it's worth and that even when the 2019 iMac gets dropped that Hackintoshes will still be possible.
That may be our only hope
My Hackintosh from 2018 (i7 -7700, AMD RX580, 32GB RAM) still runs pretty well almost 6 years later. I got an M1 Macbook Air as my travel laptop but I still use the Hackintosh as my main desktop. I won't do a new Hack build, but will bump up the specs one more time (64GB RAM, All SSD drives) and this should get at least 2 years more life. 2025 I will get the latest greatest Apple Silicon Mac Pro (if I can afford it!)...
Wow, I literally asked the Hack reddit about 10th/11th vs 12th/13th gen for a desktop hack! Thank you for doing this!
I purchased the M1 MAC Studio when it first came out. I also purchased their keyboard with the key pad combo. I quickly discovered the keyboard’s number pad did get recognized by the OS. I went online and asked tech support about my problem. They thought I had purchased counterfeit products for my Mac. I had to proved to them I had purchased them directly for the Apple website. They had me reboot into a safe mode and put me on hold for about an hour. They thought they could change the keyboard listed in the settings, but there were no options for any other keyboard. They came back a said they didn’t know how to fix it. I don’t think they knew anything about how computers work at all. It wasn’t on their check list so they were totally lost.
I notice you use the keyboard without the number pad, but I was wondering by chance you know how fix my problem, or who to ask about my problem.
I got a Hackintosh w/ Core i7-12700F at home and a Macbook Pro M1. Working on Hack at home and bring M1 to work, it is not a bad idea. The performance of i7-12700F is better than M1 about 5-10% I guess, still enough for working with Photoshop and Lightroom. Beside that, I still can play games when switch back to Windows 11. AirDrop, Universal Control,... everything works well on the Hackintosh (except SideCar, yes ofc XD).
I have been out of Macs for so long. But for some reason? That is where I always felt the most creative. There is just something about MacOS that just brings creativity to the table.
The Hakintosh has always been for people who demand EXTREME Performance. And you can still get that if you custom build.
For the rest of us? Its just fun to try it out. Lord knows we got a LOT of mac gear already for our daily drivers.
Built my last Hackintosh many years ago. Opencore was still in Alpha. But what i have seen in the video the documentation details haven't changed much. When i read first time the installation instruction i first took a deep breath and went out for a walk. I wasn't used to configure every possible option by myself compared to the clover route, where you also had to tinker much but not nearly as much as in Opencore. Well after the walk i sat down and worked through the list. I was surprised how well every step was described. It even motivated me to optimize everything to my needs. And when i booted from the USB Drive, without A SINGLE error and going completly through the installation process flawlessly i knew Opencore will set new Hackintosh standards. A few years later Apple released their ARM based CPUs and my Dream of always having the optimal custom Mac OS Machine was destroyed.
Well knewing Hackintosh won't be an option in the future i found true love in the Linux community. But all i have to say: the Opencore guys are amazing! Even it took me much longer for the preperation of the install USB i saved about 2 days getting it to work. Maybe some people still remember the hustle browsing through Chinese/Turkish/Russian Forums to find a guy who almost got a similar or close enough configuration as you and hoping he posted his EFI partition.
I have run an hackintosh for around an year in the early days, and for early I really mean it, it was with Tiger in around 2006, with my trusty old Pentium 4 and 384MB of sdram. It worked quite well (at least compared to XP), but I have never been able to update it even once!
I love that your cooler is bigger than the whole Mac Studio. LOL It always makes you wonder how great the Mac platform could be if they made some simple towers like the old G3s and let people have more flexibility...
Now Triple Boot the Machine, except do it all at the same time. Manjaro or Ubuntu Budgie with VFIO for Win10/11 virtualized with GPU passthrough, give this VM a RTX 4080 and then a MacOS Ventura VM with a 7900xt passed through. Get two 27" monitors and set them up side by side or get a 49" Ultrawide and run them together with the mouse and keyboard shared between the VMs with a handoff feature.
FCPX was the main reason I tried Hackintosh. Nowadays I just use Davinci Resolve in all my computers, regardless of the OS.
This is the smartest Mac/Apple-centric channel on RUclips, IMO (Rene Ritchie is certainly honorable mention, but his videos were different and now far fewer since he's gotten the new gig at RUclips). I know you don't care, Quinn, but these are the type of videos that will cause Apple to never allow you to review products early, which is such a damn shame. Anyway, i appreciate your putting a review out weeks or even more than a month after a product's release since it's always a fresh, educated take on the product. Nonetheless, not getting a product early prevents a precious first impressions-type video, which would likely receive significant viewership and thus revenue. This is a very long-winded and confusing way to say I appreciate the work you do, putting videos like these out to help viewers at your own expense. Have a great night man.
I've just built a hackintosh with used eBay parts:
7980XE + Delid + Liquid Metal + Copper IHS + Kryonaut Extreme @ 4.6GHz, 3.0GHz Mesh
64GB GSkill DDR4 3200 16-18-18-38 T2 @ DDR4 3733 18-22-22-28 T1
Gigabyte X299 Designare EX + Modded bios fully unlocked options w/ pre-spectre microcode
Ice Giant ThermoSiphon
BeQuiet Silent Base 802 - Modded with an angle grinder to fit ThermoSiphon in inverted layout
5x 10TB WD External HDD's shucked
4x 2TB SanDisk 3D SATA SSD
1TB Samsung 970 Pro (seems to work without TRIM issues in Ventura)
AMD Instinct MI25 flashed with raspberry Pi to WX9100 BIOS
1000W Corsair PSU which is overloaded on a regular basis. Drawing ~650W CPU only load and ~550W GPU only. Combined is a no go 😂
Cinebench R23: ~27000
Geekbench 5: ~1300 single, ~19000 multi
efficiency is great but there are so many other ways you could make up for a power hungry computer in your home like using an air fryer instead of a large giant over to bake your food, air dry more of laundry etc don't know that I am that worried about the power consumption tbh
You also need an apple machine if you develop for the App Store, since Xcode depends on your MacOS version and inevitably Ventura will not let you publish for the latest iOS SDK.
Great video. And very interesting. I think you could also stated in your final conclusions that you never know how long your hackintosh would work with future updates. If your goal is creating your own Mac and use this as long as a normal Mac will be supported, this could be run into a disapointment.
Not really. Apple will put your Mac on the obsolete list and stop you from updating the OS and Apps long before the Hackintosh breaks due to updates.
I used to have Hackintosh back in the Clover days. Still remember the pain of installing system updates.
i did this... 7950x 64gb ram, prime x670e pro wifi 6800xt. Beautiful, fast , solid and a great Ryzentosh.
Would like to see it on P core only with a slight overclock. Probably would run better as processes wouldn't be getting stuck on slower cores. At least everywhere that doesn't make use of more than 10 threads (hyper threading only makes up for so many real cores).
Of course it would be really nice to try a workstation class 10 or 12 (or more) P core Xeon, but a lot of things would be nice. The beat deal I saw on those included a $700 SuperMicro board and a high core processor is like $1,000-3,000
When a failed SSD or even RAM requires a full logic board replacement, complete with everything and costing an arm and a leg, the costs of owning a current M series Mac can easily become a nightmare. Couple that with the just 12 months warranty Apple offers, unless you want to spend even more to bump that up to 3 years and a hackintosh at half the price of the Mac looks very good.