"Electrical Finish" Build Show Build: Boston Ep. 18
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- Опубликовано: 22 окт 2023
- The electrical fixtures you choose have a huge impact on the feel of your home. You can easily turn a good project into a great project with lighting, or vice versa. Steve walks through how they incorporated smart technology into this home and the install. Stay tuned for an update on the rest of the siding install and how they the homeowners are using solar on this project.
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I would never use a Wi-Fi switch or receptacle. IEEE 802.11 wasn't designed for it (read: reliability issues), Wi-Fi based smart devices constantly have security issues (see: Mirai botnet attack), and the vast majority are cloud-based. There are ample cautionary tales of people's devices not working when their internet is down, the manufacturer has a service outage, or the manufacturer goes defunct. I would only use devices that were locally-managed and running on a purpose-built protocol like Z-Wave or Zigbee.
So, no SPAN panel for you?
@@D2O2 A cloud-based smart panel that talks to the internet is a horrible idea. Bad case, a hacker manages to shut the panels off. Worst case (hopefully), they cause a malfunction that damages the breakers, resulting in a safety hazard. If it could be set up for local control, then I would probably be okay with just blocking its WAN access at the firewall, but my understanding is that it has to have an internet connection for the smart features to work.
It depends, I suppose. I wouldn't use Wi-Fi receptacles but I'm fine with Wi-Fi switches. I control my exterior lights with Leviton cloud switches and it works out great. They're not going out of business anytime soon. The lights turn on at dusk and turn off whatever time I want. If my Wi-Fi goes down, I can still press the switch to turn on and off. In the very unlikely event that I get hacked, they're only exterior lights so I'm not afraid of someone having a couple chuckles.
All good replies-thsinsi one step removed from refrigerators that talk to you and have cameras inside -technology without thinking deeply about it. One problem with many of these building shows is their obsession with energy usage, savings. Like how low a perm can you achieve? At what cost? What side effects ? Etc.
@@D2O2 When Span goes tits up a lot of people are going to regret their choice to install one.
The control belongs in the end device, not the breaker panel. As the appliances get smarter the more useless the Span panel will be. It completely disrupts any smart functionality in a end device. Cutting power to an inverter AC unit, heat pump water heater, or any similar device at the panel is only going to result in error codes and service calls.
Energy monitoring makes sense in a breaker panel and a lot of the big manufactures are building that into their panels as an option.
"HAL, shut off the juice to the lamp that's about to catch fire!"
"I'm sorry Dave, I can't do that."
"What's the problem HAL?"
"I think we both know what the problem is Dave. You need the QR code."
If only it was that smart! Oh, and you need WF all the time just talk to them. I'm surprised at the level of this home and the lack of innovation by the electrical distribution stalwarts and then there is SPAN.
I’m not sure if its just the video, but it’s good practice to vacuum out all of the dust inside the electrical boxes from drywall and other trades during final install.
😂😂😂😂😂
I always take away something good with these videos. This time I love the the adjustability of the boxes used in the base board application. Can see the many uses for them. Double breaker panels great idea for the battery back up.
Steve,
You've outdone yourself! Extremely well done and fun video!
There are so many exciting subsystems!
Cheers, Eric
Thanks buddy
Great video.
TKS FOR SHARING ALL THE GOOD STUFF THAT HAVE IN THE HOUSE. CAN'T WAITE TO SEE THE NEXT VID.
exterior looks fantastic great combination of colors and sizes
Thanks! The Acre vertical shiplap siding started going up today and looks amazing. Very pleased with that decision. Many thanks to Steve for the nudge on the colors! The garage doors were also installed (high R value, with ThermoTraks as well) and they add to that color pallete. Those will be seen in the upcoming episode.
Wow! 400 amps "just in case" everything becomes electric. That's interesting. I'm an electrician so I'm fine with the way things are going with EVSE but I'm not sure people will like having to pay for this "just in case" scenario.
FANTASTIC VIDEO.
By the way, here in New Jersey ALL underground service shall be sized for 200 amps.
“Just in case” = ready when we mandate it and ban gas appliances altogether
@@kaseyc5078 let’s hope that day never comes.
I live in upstate NY and everything in my house is electric. It works great. I signed up for the community solar program and my electricity comes from local hydroelectric. The bill is about $125 a month.
@@ASkippingRock hydroelectric. That’s why it’s so cheap.
@@ASkippingRock hey guess what? we don't all have hydro. it would cost me 1125 a month if i had to heat my home with electricity
Super interesting video! Thanks
Three things:
1. That wiser device is a rebranded Sense energy monitor. Those things are not perfect, but they're absolutely amazing and incredibly valuable for tracking energy use, but also *diagnosing* all kinds of problems. It's saved ne countless times with the heat pump compressor, but also was absolutely irreplaceable when a problem in the HOA shared meter panel caused an *intermittent* floating neutral. Not a single person outside the household believed us without the charts and other data from our monitor!
2. Siemens makes a deally good series of type 1/2 surge protectors that have a built in alarm that detects a floating neutral and sounds an alarm when there's too large of a ground/neutral voltage difference - again, saved my butt bigtime!!
3. If you're not going for the smart outlet route - something that is really nice for the non-technical homeowner/resident is to use audible alarm GFCIs generally where you'd use a GFCI, or on the first outlet in a branch circuit instead of in the breaker. For the non-technical, it's immediately obvious where the problem is. For the technical, well, an alarm is still nicer than a tripped breaker!
Having had a Sense unit for the past few years, I am really pleased by the Wiser device that has direct connections to the data from the smart switches and outlets from Schneider. The data becomes much more granular, as well as showing the deviations you mention in usage that can indicate problems before they result in the failure of many appliances.
@@scottrodman that's amazing - glad to hear they have that integrated!!
Nice house
Like the solar standing seam roof!
thanks, it was a great decision to have the standing seem (Englert) aluminum roof. What made that really successful was the ability to have no penetrations, thanks to the S-5 clamps. Finding all of the approaches and products that provide better answers has been a really interesting research project. Many items came from watching Matt's videos.
PLEASE Buy a Vacuum for those boxes!
This looks like a nightmare when the house gets sold, no way are those QR codes for every outlet and switch not going to get lost.
electronic record? plus if you think they're considering resale, then yea i don't know what to tell you :)
QR codes can be more than just a URL. You could make a QR code that just says something like "Panel 1 breaker 16, living room outlets & front hall light". Look at "QR Droid Private" for a tool that can make QR codes like this. You don't even need an Internet connection to read a code like that.
This kind of job only makes sense if money isn’t a problem at all. Anyone buying that house can most definitely afford to have switches and outlets and get whatever they want for their own fancy tastes
Lots of future e-waste is all I see@@stevecrawford6958
That cement board stuff around here swells and then starts falling apart
Great series. I remember in the early 70’s there was problem with aluminum wires. Dad was an electrician said they were overheating connections. Is this this a problem? Dad,grampa,2 uncles were electricians from the late’30’s to mid 60’s out of 103 hall in Boston until all moved here in SoCal. And props to the owner who had the vision to build such a house !! I may retire back in New England
No, that was more the quality of the aluminum alloy they used back then and the annealing process.
Aluminum is fine for large distribution wires as long as you use the proper compound on the connection. It was used for regular circuit wiring for a while in the 70's but aluminum doesn't like to be bent without breaking! That's where all the fires came from, and why it was banned from being used for branch circuit wiring.
If you want to play with the big boys you need to clean and vacuum out those boxes. After you are gone dust will be falling out of those forever. Hopefully that won’t mess up your outlets.
😂😂😂😂😂
Good reminder, but don't worry, they will all be vacuumed carefully before the outlets or switches are installed. There is a lot of dust and debris during construction. You should have seen the Warmboard tracks before they were cleaned... many times!
Wow, your utility company has way more lax rules than CA. Must be nice. In CA that box at the beginning would have to be twice as big and deep and made of concrete. Also only 36" radius sweeps allowed.
Sad to see the PVC conduits going over the edge of the roof there. Easy enough to put them in a proper weatherhead integrated with the standing seam roof.
much preferred not to have those visible, but the tradeoff was to have penetrations in the roof. We chose not to have the penetrations.
@@scottrodman But the tradeoff is essentially non-existant if you let the electrician do the rough-in and the roofer do the little dog-house with the standing seam install. Yes, it is a little more cost but what a difference in visual appeal... especially for a showcase house like this.
I complain because my house with Enphase inverters was done the same way, although it is slightly more excusable in that it was a retrofit. Since the PVC conduit and conduit bodies are cracked to hell I'll get a chance to remediate it though.
Funny up here in New Hampshire eversource runs the underground wire to the meter.
sweet, a 150K electrical system, why don't we all have one???
What are they running? A small shop? EV fast chargers? An electric dryer is 5000W. An electric stove/oven maybe 9000W. A standard electric water heater, 4500W. Maybe 9000W for a 5-ton heat pump. So 27500W, or 115A @ 240V for appliances that have often been gas. A 200A service is more than enough.
I would be really interested to know what the working budget for this build winds up being. Like total cost to build with such high finishing and attention to detail
San Diego SDG&E is the Highest Electricity in the Nation we have now surpassed Hawaii. JUST FYI.
Interesting. Why doesn't the US use the more modern breaker boxes and breakers though? Is it just because of legacy code?
That solar panel job has been illegal in my area for last ten years. Fire department requires a minimum of a 3 ' path from edge of roof to the peak in order to cut holes in roof during a fire to guess check if any flames still active & to vent smoke.
They can get access via the wall on the other side. Should be ok in most jurisdictions
It was carefully reviewed with the fire chief. There is access from each side of the sloped roof sections where the arrays are located and the largest is over the garage.
If the outlets are actually wifi, that's a mistake. Will overload your wifi fast. Should be Z wave, Zigbee, or Thread
Why does this house need this much solar power? If I remember correctly you were shooting for near passive house insulation. I get why you might need 400A service since I know if you use Electric on demand hot water heaters they use a crap ton of amps while in use but over time are very efficient. A modern house with modern appliances might have higher short term load needed but over time they would use less since they are so efficient. Does this couple really expect to need this much solar to remain net zero? and if so can you explain what I am missing. Thanks so much
the owner is an OCD nerd or a climate hysteric.
Seems like their decisions automatically default to the most expensive just because it's the most expensive.
Like you said, modern homes like this are all LED and high efficiency heat pumps. Even if his solar went all bad, 400A is still ridiculous.
$43 remote controlled outlets for the entire house is another example.
Honest question with all this home automation do owners actually use it?
I have 3 Amazon cubes( 3 bucks a piece ) that we use for Christmas lights and an under counter light but I can't think of anything else I would want automated. In 40+ years living with grid power our power doesn't turn off for more than a few hours really ever so just don't leave the fridge open and we're good. If the power does go out for days then do it old school and run an extension cord to the trusted honda. Am i missing something?
Is there a reason to use fiber cement siding vs something like Everlast siding? A pretty big siding company here told me fiber cement is garage........
Where I am, the local electrical supply has not been able to get a 400 amp in almost two years now.
Same on some projects we've done two 200amp services.
You can order it online, that’s what we’ve been doing.
@@suspicionofdeceit where did you order from?
@@waterstoneweddingfilms1188 Nassau wire, they just wrapped the roll, slapped a shipping label on it, and it came a few days later, we mainly order SER from them.
If only Enphase Energy could get their systems to output 400A (for both panels)... it would be Game Over industry-wide! Just have to engineer the solution.
Agreed - The need for larger amps is relatively new for residential homes and, given the all-electric requirements allowed as a pilot in up to 10 towns in Massachusetts and coming in many more places, Enphase and their competitors will have a growing market for that and it is likely to be on the market in the next few years. Unfortunately, the current Enphase system allows only 52 panels of the 86 to power the batteries. I have had great luck with Enphase arrays but also looked at multiple options before selecting Enphase for both the inverter elements (microinverters) and batteries.
@@scottrodman Yes - Unfortunately, all I see are Victron Energy systems that reach up that high... and they are "price prohibitive" for me currently. I'm sure they've engineered great systems, but I've seen Enphase's test facility. They far over-engineer their products, which is what we all need in this world about now.
93,000,000 miles
Cool house and smart features...why such a huge drop in panel rating vs AC power? >5kw lost?!?!
Because there are always losses and your panel rating doesn't mean much when they aren't pointed directly at the sun at all times, especially on cloudy days
@@Squat5000 maybe I misunderstood the phrasing but it almost seems like they were staying in the capacity is lower in ac... That's the part that confuses me
Power isn't "lost". More DC capacity is installed than AC. It was a bit difficult to follow him, but I believe what they installed is 405w panels with 366w IQ8 micro inverters. Which is pretty close to a 1.2:1 DC/AC ratio. At peak this results is some clipping but over the course of the year several case studies have shown that the clipping is negligible on overall production. Enphase has a couple videos on their channel that explain why they size it the way they do.
@@stevemcfarland4661 With micro inverters there is a efficiency rating to deal with as well. While I am not familiar with the exact system they are using, I suspect that is why the power rating is so different. I have mixed feelings about micro inverters because of this.
Here is a VERY basic run down of how it works. . .
The panels generate DC voltage, the micro-inverters converts it to AC (efficiency loss % here), sends it to the battery charge controller which converts it back to DC to charge the batteries (another efficiency loss %), then if you are using the batteries to run AC equipment it has to be converted back to AC again for YET ANOTHER efficiency loss %. (When the panels are producing power, SOME micro-inverter systems can power your breaker panel directly, skipping this loss, but only if they are producing enough power at the time of use)
Those loss % add up pretty quickly, and I suspect that is where the capacity difference is coming from.
As they mentioned, it can be easier to deal with code compliance, as well as some other benefits, and reduces required wire size ($$$) for some of the system.
- Staying with a more "traditional" DC solar charging system eliminates those first 2 inverter loss % because it is all DC until AFTER the batteries. You still have the main inverter that runs your AC equipment, but you cant get rid of that completely. Down side is working with high voltage DC (sometimes in excess of 500V). There are ways around the shading issues they mentioned, but that gets pretty technical to try explaining here. Converting voltage up/down generally has little to no measurable loss. Going from AC/DC typically is around 80-90% efficiency, though some of the newer systems are getting better % numbers.
-Some full time off grid systems will go so far as running DC lighting, refrigerators, and other equipment that runs 24/7 to reduce inverter loss even further. That allows you the option of shutting down the inverter completely until you need to run something that is AC powered, like laundry equipment or entertainment systems for example. Inverters draw power even when doing nothing (stand by loss) but waiting for you to turn something on. Modern inverters generally have a pretty small stand by draw, but if it is on 24/7 it adds up. A 100W light isn't much, but if you leave it on for a month straight you'll see the difference on your power bill.
As far as breakers and panels, AC vs DC creates a different arc when connecting/disconnecting a live circuit. That all gets pretty technical.
All mechanical "switches" create an arc internally during operation. (Solid state controls are a little different) This is why special switches are required in explosive/flammable industrial environments.
Many people simply don't put in a large enough system to run everything completely off grid during a power outage. Panels, inverters and charge controllers have gotten more affordable in recent years, but the batteries to support such a large system are still very expensive. With a truly off-grid (power outage) capable system they also generally recommend having enough panels to charge your batteries fully in one good day of sunshine.
Sorry that got a little long. I find solar fascinating, and try to keep up with it to some extent.
Imo Leviton panels are much nicer option. 400amp service is a bit ridiculous.
I'm glad I live in Texas and not Massachusetts.
At 00:27 you showed what can not be permanent wiring. For over last 50 years the code requires a minimum of 1 1/4" from edge of cable to finished surface. That why you see see nail plates on 2 by 3" studs. You should never use Ivory soap or any product that is not labeled or approved for such use. Back in the early 1980's there was one wire pulling lube that was only approved for certain wire insulations. At a continuing education class they told us that type of wire lube would damage older style insulation. The big problem with electronics is good luck finding a replacement in ten years after the chips were stopped be manufactured 5 years after you wasted a lit of money. Had a over $10k lightning / dimming system that had to be replaced after ten years. Vendor could no longer supply new boards or repair old boards due to they were unable to secure some chips.
Regarding your first point, NEC section 300.4(D) applies. This does not mention finished surface. It mentions the edge of framing members, or, as in this case, furring strips. Cables running parallel to the furring strips require the 1-1/4" clearance from the edge of the furring strip, not the finished ceiling surface. The furring strip is where nails or screws are likely to penetrate. This is illustrated in the NEC handbook commentary ( I'm referencing exhibit 300.2 in the 2017 handbook).
What is the slope on the roof with the PVs?
3:12
@@stevenbaczekarchitect9431 Funny. Your reply creates an automatic link to 3:12 in the video. That sent me down the rabbit hole of checking various times .I thought you may have mistyped the time since 3:12 has noth9ing to do with roof slope. Then it dawned on me that the slope is 3/12. Lol!
3/12 pitch in Mass, or anywhere in New England for that matter, is efficient enough without raising up the angle of the PV array?
These "smart" devices are the dumbest thing and are gonna be the first thing that gets yanked out of this house. Can't say no to the client, sure, but just kinda annoying to see when folks pound home building techniques and methods so things last 100+ yrs while this IoT junk won't last beyond 2-10yrs if even (depends on owner). To each their own.
Agree. I come from a family of electrical contractors. My home doesn't have any of this. Instead, wired in 12awg, metal boxes, each room on own circuit, ceiling lighting and receptacles on separate circuits (not combined), receptacles are spec commercial... And more excellent craftsman work.. My install is outstanding without the "latest and greatest."
Just what I needed today! A break from the mainstream media and little Matt R in my life is the best.
Porque un electricista sin alicate de pelar cable?
Southwire simpull will void the warranty of the wire if using lubricant “ lube” on it.
Lube?
@@Ariccio123thank you, just saw the mistyping
That's not true. You just have to use the approved one, no yellow 77
Yeah because Romex is not supposed to be used in conduit first of all rendering lube irrelevant.
Second, lube is water based and Romex is not to be exposed to water.
@@Squat5000the conversation above is not about Romex. It’s about underground wire from the service loop to meter main.
$43 per outlet..... to do exactly what? If X happens, then I can do Y? What is X and Y that is worth this insane amount of money?
I'm not even talking about connectivity issues (yes it happens and the possibility is only multiplied by the amount of devices).
Should not have said playing around in here
7:47 Code violation!
How so?
@@aayotechnology bushing not installed
They make up put in 400 amp service when you only need 200, nice. Some of the higher kwh rates there too.
As explained, code requires them to bring in enough electrical service so that if all of the load were electric, there would be enough service. Just because you are installing various gas appliances, code there requires that the electrical service be large enough so that those appliances COULD be electric.
Over time, we would hope to see less and less use of gas, and more and more use of electric, with clean generation of electric by the power company. This code supports such a public policy. Since houses have a lifetime of many decades, the code has to plan some distance into the future.
You only get charged for KwH .. so Kw that you actually USE. You're not using the full 200/400 amps all the time. Requiring higher amperage just makes homes/cities/towns prepared for a 100% electric future (NG, fuel/heating oil no longer used or permitted. Also future electric car usage at the home. Don't build for now, build for the future. Now only is too late.
Well that's a good thing they don't charge for 400Amp 24/7 draw....I can rest easy now.@@colinstu
@@colinstu It does cost more just to wire up a larger electrical service, and builders are notorious penny-pinchers on anything they think they can get away with.
@@dondumitru7093 costs more now sure but gonna cost a whole shitload more later (not to mention, good luck forcing people to change anything afterwards, when the capacity is suddenly needed).
“Electrical requires us to put in this box”
*shows $12 tote buried with the bottom cut out* 🤣
It could be a box specific for that code/scenario, but that was my first thought hahah
It kinda looks like a tote but it is sturdy enough to be driven over. It doesn't have a bottom so it can drain rain water out of it
that's what electrical underground pull boxes look like.
To build a new home in 2023 they are really missing the boat not to put a smart panel in. SPAN is most well known but I believe there are others. IMO a smarter play than making every single outlet a smart outlet.
That's true except these people are not sponsored by span and they do their videos heavily Sponsored the basically just huge commercials
Electrican here. Span is ridiculously expensive for what it is and doesn’t have proven long-term reliability. If you want smart controls, install a Leviton panel with their breakers. The gen2 (soon to be replaced) breakers will do load shedding.
Smart panels are great until they get ransomwared
@@Ariccio123 legitimate concern. I imagine over time and especially after the first few times it happens and is publicized in the media Span and others will provide a LAN option where you can disconnect the panel from the internet and just use it locally.
@@Ed-jg3ud my guess is that's unlikely. Most of these systems are too deeply integrated into the cloud to run locally without building new hardware to act as a server
Did this guy just say you can touch the black or white wire individually and not get shocked and you only get shocked if you touch both? Not sure if it was just sarcasm or if he was serious…
8:44
Only get shocked if there's a return path to "ground". If your body is fully isolated then sure, could touch either wire individually and not get shocked. It's extremely dangerous though, it doesn't take many mA ACROSS heart to stop it. But yeah, there's caveats/nuance and kinda surprised that was said / included in the vid.
I caught that too. That was a dumb thing to say. I would have liked to see the demo.
I would NEVER purchase or install duplex receptacles with WI Fi or USB ports. Over the last 30 years I am on my third model of cell phone charging plug so in next twenty years might have two newer model of charging plugs. Good luck installing an extra deep duplex receptacles with built-in WI Fi or USB ports. Even a rubber mallet, two shoe horns & a prayer will not get these installed flush in a common 2 1/4 or 2 1/2" metal wall case with beveled corners and two sets of NM cable.
try asking a German what he thinks about your "high" electricity prices....
Totally out of control! So the new owner wants all this installed and for safety I agree with some of them. The battery back up great idea. But QR outlets total over kill. Now install a emergency generator and I’m good to go. But how much power an out let is use big waste of money. Sorry home owners nightmare.
Guy says 2-3 times the price of a normal outlet? I thought “normal” outlets cost 50 cents. Who can afford these houses?
Most $0.50 outlets are absolute shit
The most expensive hospital grade outlets are like $10-20
Electrician labor is easily 10x the cost of the outlets. No point in cheaping out.
@@Ariccio123 those things are $40 for just the material and I’ve never had a problem with a 50 cent outlet.
@@pats9414 how long have you been using them for?
@@pats9414I've seen the plastic faces of the outlets fall off of the 50 cent outlets. At least get the $2 ones
As a service electrician I have seen multiples of those cheap receptacles melted into goop over the years. I can rip the face off of the outlet with just my fingers! Get spec grade ones at $5 per outlet and wire it to the terminals not the fire holes in the back. I wouldn't install those cheap ones in my worst enemies house. @@pats9414
Frist comment
First reply!!!
What a waste of time and money! This guy is one lightning strike or surge away from a electrical nightmare 😂. Keep it simple!
For the love of God please do yourselves a favor and NEVER install Square D panels in your home. They are nothing but a headache. Especially the QO panels.
If you have enough money to install those stupid outlets, you can probably afford the extra three cents on your electric bill for leaving a table lamp on
Great video but the picture quality is poor. Please get a real camera. Thanks
The electrical guy should use insulated tools. Please be aware of electrical safety first!
You don't need them when you're not doing hot work.
Knowledge first. Safety third
@@Squat5000Do you really think the insulated screwdriver, e.g., 1000V rated, is only used on hot circuits? If you are an electrician, most of the tools should be insulated, tested, and rated especially screwdrivers. Otherwise, you must always choose the correct one, depending on whether you work in live wires or not. One mistake in your whole life may end your life. For this reason, we always prefer earthing the complete circuit before working on electrical circuits.
Probably should have cut out Steve dropping the G-word at 9:07
I'd change your vocabulary with the usage of gypsy. That is offensive and considered racial slur
Beware of the speech police...
Just like Fire Chief! Chief of Police! Low man on the totempole! .... when/where does it stop!
You will pull through.
Gypsy's are known for a short term lifestyle. All the Gypsy's I've been around are very nomadic and living that lifestyle they tend to spend less on quality because the ROI will never be recouped. We don't think anything about putting up a building amish style but all the Amish I know have never put up a building. How is that any different?
Nobody gives a shit.
Gypsy is a slur btw
After 40 years of being an Electrician I’m glad that I am now retired seeing all this bullshit that this generation thinks they need
Me too. Retired after 50 years. Aholes at Philly L & I (dukes of hazard Pa had been working on a state electrical license.since 1964 ) made me take an OSHA 10 class a year before I retired and show $500,000 liability insurance but worst is proof of vehicle insurance. Never once saw an ELE trivial performing electrical work while driving his vehicle!. I always did 16 hours of continuing education rather then the 8 hours required every year.
Sounds like you and I are close in years, and possibly in thought too......