Hey Daniele, I like your pumping content but this time I do disagree in a lot of points. I guess if you would have spent more than just one battery on the Foil Drive you might have noticed most of them yourself. I made a „Learn how to pump“ tutorial on RUclips myself and I honestly believe that learning to pump first and than getting in to dock, running, ladder or beach start does speed up the learning curve a lot. Getting on foil and getting familiar with riding and pumping is the best preparation available. You can use a wing, a kite, a boat, a jet ski, a cable park or a Foil Drive to do this, it’s all just different forms of energy that will allow you to get on foil and practice. Once you have that dialed in, learning to jump on a board and proceed pumping will be a lot easier. Don’t get me wrong, I know people who have mastered to learn to dock start by running and jumping and then slowly developing a feel and sense for the foil and pumping, but I guess this is the hardest way available. In terms of Foil Drive: Don’t expect to get on the board and be pumping right away! Like with a wing or a kite the first sessions are about getting to know the equipment. It does take some time to develop a feel for the controller, the amount of power it takes to get up and how to get the motor out of the water and back into the water. I have handed my Foil Drive to a lot of people and here is what I have observed: First session is all about the controller and getting familiar with power, acceleration and getting up. Second session (second battery) is about controlled riding with the motor still in the water. Session 3-5 are usually about getting the motor out of the water and slowly starting to pump. From there on people do progress very fast and within a few session will not only be able to pump but also dip the running engine back into the water for additional speed in critical moments or just to get back to powered riding. For an honest and profound judgment about Foil Drive it would help to spend more time on the system. In the last month I have done roughly 100 hours of Foil Driving and even though I prefer to ride unpowered (using my wing or plain pumping) I have to admit that Foil Drive gave me the biggest learning curve from all my „tools“. We talk again when the Foil Drive is mounted to your system and YES it does work with the GONG KLUBER … it just takes some practice. Additional note: Connection is usually not a problem with Foil Drive but if you are using an all carbon board and track or have the Foil Drive mounted in a funny way like in your video, there is an additional antenna that solves the problem. I haven’t had a single connection loss, even using the all carbon Sabfoil Torpedo. If you are loosing connection because of a totally submerged board you just have to lift the nose slightly out of the water to regain connection. You can also touch the board with the remote under water and get instant connection. I would rather not engage the engine will climbing on the board like you said. That’s just additional risk.
And just in case someone is wondering: Nico Hopp = hoppline 😉 I just thought I use my real name account so no one things I am hiding behind my pseudonym !
@@gaeldaniele Next time you are in Germany or I am heading your way we are having a session together !! Saw you met Balz, he's such a sweet and talented guy !!!
Love your content! As owner of gen 2 FD I agree, especially being accurate to stay high on the mast. Dropping that cable down definitely helps, I’m running mine at 12.5cm and that battery box adds 5 cm to your mast height so you could go a 28 inch mast to help with stability. So if purely pumping round on a lake the FD is not what you want. Now if you are prone surfing then the FD shines! Basically think of it as a JetSki and you don’t have to wait your turn! I can go out any condition, any tide and getting 30+ waves a session. No brainer if you have the money! Cheers for all your vids. ❤
Same here, love my Foil Drive for prone and wake thief! I still do think it would help to get into pumping but once you mastered it, you probably won't need it any more.....
Try it with your pump foil and a smaller board. I’d like to see you use the FD with gear you are already used to. I think you would have challenges but will be pumping quickly. Would love to see a video if you can.
@@gaeldaniele The universal mast adapter works with pretty much every mast available. It comes with all new packages ... if your friend still has the older version, it might be worse getting one (-:
Ciao Gaël Daniele. I am coming exactly from the other side of foiling. Kiting, Winging. I used to hate pumping. And sucked at it.😅 And now that I got addicted to using the Foildrive, I really needed to learn how to pump. So I watched some of your videos. The one in which you are talking about extending the front leg and bringing the foil down with it..and doing it in slow motion for me made a big difference! I am using a Whizz 1000/850 Duotone and a 30l Crush prone board. All the carbon made pumping a lot more efficient 😅. For me Foildrive is the key to learn Pumping while Downwinding just out of mere necessity. And you can actually practice the techniques from your videos with Foildrive. 😊 like staying high on the mast cause otherwise you touch with the motor...You need to follow your plan with coaching! If I may say that. I've been teaching a long time and you are very good at analysing techniques and explaining them. Stefan
In my personal experience instead the Foil Drive was thenonly thing that helped me succedeed in the pumping game. I built my self a portable dock but was too heavy and all the tries were inconsistent. With the foil drive and one single battery you can try so many times, it force you to learn how to atay high on the mast. Probably not the best to beat the world record but for sure it will help you to build the tecnique or part of the tecnique. Please also use a smaller board next time, i’m sure you will like it better ;)
If you want to learn how to pump, I would say buying a wing and a wingboard is a better choice, because you need to pump to take off, and the lower wind you go, the more you have to pump if you have a big foil, no motor having drag in the water and board and wing is still cheaper than a foildrive. You need a spot with a bit of wind, yeah, but you're not limited by battery runtime. Of course, if you just have a small lake with no wind available, its hard to learn wingfoiling there, but with the right gear its impressive how low wind is possible. This summer I (70kg) tried the Gong Sirus XXL 152cm, and was able to fly in 4-6kn wind, with lots of pumping in between because the wind dropped to almost 0 sometimes.
I don't necessarily agree. if pumping is your main goal, you would probably learn faster if you would just dockstart, than if you would learn winging first and then dockstart later. I see lots of super skilled wing foliers who think they know how to pump but then as soon as they don't have their wing in their hands they're lost.
@@gaeldaniele Yes, that might be the fastest way if you have very good motor skills and no fear, but the question seemed to come from a point of: "I can't foil yet, would the foildrive help me learn pumpfoiling faster". In which case a big point would be to learn how to foil in the first place. And both a foildrive or wingfoiling would be easier or at least safer to learn foiling with, compared to straight up dockstart and pumping. In foiling, foot placement is crucial, and with a dockstart you have to land almost perfectly and if you don't know how to pump yet, you can't get much time on the foil until you figured out the pumping. With an external power source, you have time to place your feet, you can slowly increase speed and learn to steer the foil in small steps and you don't 'have' to pump to stay on foil. So you have more time on foil per session to learn it. And then you can ride along, high on mast and with enough speed and put the wing down and try to pump, which is a much safer startpoint than a dockstart I would say. I think you know how many sketchy falls can happen when learning a dockstart, so why not learn how to foil first. And yes, you can be a "good" wingfoiler without knowing how to pump the foil, if you don't work towards it and only wingfoil in strong winds. But wingfoilers I consider good, can drop their wing with an anchorman leash and ride a wave, and then pump back to their wing. And I have seen numerous wingfoilers do it and love to do it myself. Anyway, starting from zero with the goal to learn pumpfoiling, I would say it's easiest or safest to learn foiling first with a power source which can be easily dropped, like getting pulled by a boat or a wing. You concluded yourself nicely, that the foildrive makes the transition to pumping too awkward or hard. But advising people to jumping straight to dockstart and pumping feels like telling someone who can't ski to go straight to backcountry powder skiing if they want to learn it fastest. Yes it can be done, but still not good advice in my opinion, lol.
@@Rocco_Kurokawa YES ! That's exactly what I think and experienced. If you don't want to buy winging gear or a Foil Drive, try to practice behind a board or at a wakeboard cable park. Most parks these days do foil only events with less speed !!
Foildrive will give you a massive push in the Learningcurve "How to link and surf Boatwaves",but will never help you to learn pumping ....so the time for the assist will come and they will be much smaller(pod and motor) and lighter(batteries).
I don't agree. I think learning to foil and pump first is the easiest way to master the dock or running start. Use a wing, kite, board, Foil Drive or what ever and your learning curve will be much faster. I use the Foil Drive Slim with the smallest battery a lot and it only adds 2.4 kg to my set up. Because the weight is placed right under my back foot / mast position I don't really feel the weight once I am on foil. Even dipping the engine into the water is not a big issue and I can easily recover and keep pumping.
No it's not worth it had the v1 and V2 and it's stays in my garage when I go to the beach. I wanted to like it but foils are so good now it doesn't take much wind to wingfoil or waves to prone or downwind these days and it's so much more fun without the hassle and extra 5Kg
Gaël your videos are awesome, & always very informative. Unfortunately you weren't aware of some key elements for using FoilDrive when pump foiling, and you actually made it look more difficult than it is : ( It's terrific you're getting into Wing foiling and I look forward to the content you'll be posting on that. The amazing thing about foiling is that it's highly technical and each type of foiling is different, and the skills learned for one type of foiling, may not work or be quite different than another. For instance kite foiling is quite different than pump foiling or foiling behind a boat. Wing foiling is different than using a Foil Drive which again is different than prone or downwind. My feeling is though, after a few years you'll master all of the disciplines.
I call it "The Circle of Foil " ! Master different disciplines and use the gear cross those. Like using a pump foil for super light wind winging or a surf Foil for Foil Drive Wake Thief and so on (-:
Are you going to windfoil too?😋 I ask because I've been windfoiling for 5 seasons now but I'm just learning to wing and pump and paddle.🤭 I'm really enjoying your videos so thanks. There is so much foiling to do and so much fun to be had. It can keep you busy.
I am so glad watching your content because you are exactly touching all relevant topics and because this content is so rare still. I am learning foil sports through the foil-assist path. Using dyi built on top of the board box. I am at the stage doing hop and glide. The board is 90L , box is 3kg , I don't expect to succeed pumping, this will be another lighter setup probably. In the meantime I can learn all the rest. Yes, i felt that loosing of stability as soon as I hop - the board goes sideways, i solved it by going With the board
If you ever happen to get to Mainz / Germany join me on a Foil Drive Wake Thief session ..... endless waves in the middle of Germany, does the trick for me (-:
@@gaeldaniele Once you are familiar with the Foil Drive even the smallest system with the smallest battery can start the GONG KLUBER ! It's all about practice. ...
My set up just adds 2.4 kg and having it under my back foot makes the weight almost disappear once I am on foil. I do get all the points against Foil Drive and I prefer to go unpowered, but I does have a lot of potential if you have a user case for it. Upwind downwinder, slappy waves, wake thief, so much you can do with it .....
Hey Daniele, I like your pumping content but this time I do disagree in a lot of points. I guess if you would have spent more than just one battery on the Foil Drive you might have noticed most of them yourself.
I made a „Learn how to pump“ tutorial on RUclips myself and I honestly believe that learning to pump first and than getting in to dock, running, ladder or beach start does speed up the learning curve a lot. Getting on foil and getting familiar with riding and pumping is the best preparation available. You can use a wing, a kite, a boat, a jet ski, a cable park or a Foil Drive to do this, it’s all just different forms of energy that will allow you to get on foil and practice. Once you have that dialed in, learning to jump on a board and proceed pumping will be a lot easier.
Don’t get me wrong, I know people who have mastered to learn to dock start by running and jumping and then slowly developing a feel and sense for the foil and pumping, but I guess this is the hardest way available.
In terms of Foil Drive: Don’t expect to get on the board and be pumping right away! Like with a wing or a kite the first sessions are about getting to know the equipment. It does take some time to develop a feel for the controller, the amount of power it takes to get up and how to get the motor out of the water and back into the water. I have handed my Foil Drive to a lot of people and here is what I have observed:
First session is all about the controller and getting familiar with power, acceleration and getting up. Second session (second battery) is about controlled riding with the motor still in the water. Session 3-5 are usually about getting the motor out of the water and slowly starting to pump. From there on people do progress very fast and within a few session will not only be able to pump but also dip the running engine back into the water for additional speed in critical moments or just to get back to powered riding.
For an honest and profound judgment about Foil Drive it would help to spend more time on the system. In the last month I have done roughly 100 hours of Foil Driving and even though I prefer to ride unpowered (using my wing or plain pumping) I have to admit that Foil Drive gave me the biggest learning curve from all my „tools“. We talk again when the Foil Drive is mounted to your system and YES it does work with the GONG KLUBER … it just takes some practice.
Additional note:
Connection is usually not a problem with Foil Drive but if you are using an all carbon board and track or have the Foil Drive mounted in a funny way like in your video, there is an additional antenna that solves the problem. I haven’t had a single connection loss, even using the all carbon Sabfoil Torpedo.
If you are loosing connection because of a totally submerged board you just have to lift the nose slightly out of the water to regain connection. You can also touch the board with the remote under water and get instant connection. I would rather not engage the engine will climbing on the board like you said. That’s just additional risk.
And just in case someone is wondering: Nico Hopp = hoppline 😉 I just thought I use my real name account so no one things I am hiding behind my pseudonym !
@@NicoHopp thank you Nico for taking the time to write this comment. I do understand your point and you are right! I should spend more time with it
@nicohopp oh I see your videos are under @hoppline -- you mean this video? ruclips.net/video/V9kisDE-z8U/видео.htmlsi=nUWnGimdCwe3nQxu
@@gaeldaniele Next time you are in Germany or I am heading your way we are having a session together !! Saw you met Balz, he's such a sweet and talented guy !!!
@@hoppline would love to! Balz is such a great man and an amazing athlete
Love your content! As owner of gen 2 FD I agree, especially being accurate to stay high on the mast. Dropping that cable down definitely helps, I’m running mine at 12.5cm and that battery box adds 5 cm to your mast height so you could go a 28 inch mast to help with stability. So if purely pumping round on a lake the FD is not what you want. Now if you are prone surfing then the FD shines! Basically think of it as a JetSki and you don’t have to wait your turn! I can go out any condition, any tide and getting 30+ waves a session. No brainer if you have the money! Cheers for all your vids. ❤
Totally agree man! it's more like a jetski / tow. for prone foiling it's a fantastic tool
Better use a wing
Same here, love my Foil Drive for prone and wake thief! I still do think it would help to get into pumping but once you mastered it, you probably won't need it any more.....
Try it with your pump foil and a smaller board. I’d like to see you use the FD with gear you are already used to. I think you would have challenges but will be pumping quickly. Would love to see a video if you can.
our masts are different, so I won't be able to use it with my setup. however, I'll probably make more sessions and give better insights
@@gaeldaniele The universal mast adapter works with pretty much every mast available. It comes with all new packages ... if your friend still has the older version, it might be worse getting one (-:
Ciao Gaël Daniele. I am coming exactly from the other side of foiling. Kiting, Winging. I used to hate pumping. And sucked at it.😅 And now that I got addicted to using the Foildrive, I really needed to learn how to pump.
So I watched some of your videos. The one in which you are talking about extending the front leg and bringing the foil down with it..and doing it in slow motion for me made a big difference!
I am using a Whizz 1000/850 Duotone and a 30l Crush prone board. All the carbon made pumping a lot more efficient 😅. For me Foildrive is the key to learn Pumping while Downwinding just out of mere necessity. And you can actually practice the techniques from your videos with Foildrive. 😊 like staying high on the mast cause otherwise you touch with the motor...You need to follow your plan with coaching! If I may say that. I've been teaching a long time and you are very good at analysing techniques and explaining them. Stefan
In my personal experience instead the Foil Drive was thenonly thing that helped me succedeed in the pumping game. I built my self a portable dock but was too heavy and all the tries were inconsistent. With the foil drive and one single battery you can try so many times, it force you to learn how to atay high on the mast. Probably not the best to beat the world record but for sure it will help you to build the tecnique or part of the tecnique. Please also use a smaller board next time, i’m sure you will like it better ;)
If you want to learn how to pump, I would say buying a wing and a wingboard is a better choice, because you need to pump to take off, and the lower wind you go, the more you have to pump if you have a big foil, no motor having drag in the water and board and wing is still cheaper than a foildrive. You need a spot with a bit of wind, yeah, but you're not limited by battery runtime. Of course, if you just have a small lake with no wind available, its hard to learn wingfoiling there, but with the right gear its impressive how low wind is possible. This summer I (70kg) tried the Gong Sirus XXL 152cm, and was able to fly in 4-6kn wind, with lots of pumping in between because the wind dropped to almost 0 sometimes.
I don't necessarily agree. if pumping is your main goal, you would probably learn faster if you would just dockstart, than if you would learn winging first and then dockstart later. I see lots of super skilled wing foliers who think they know how to pump but then as soon as they don't have their wing in their hands they're lost.
@@gaeldaniele Yes, that might be the fastest way if you have very good motor skills and no fear, but the question seemed to come from a point of: "I can't foil yet, would the foildrive help me learn pumpfoiling faster".
In which case a big point would be to learn how to foil in the first place. And both a foildrive or wingfoiling would be easier or at least safer to learn foiling with, compared to straight up dockstart and pumping. In foiling, foot placement is crucial, and with a dockstart you have to land almost perfectly and if you don't know how to pump yet, you can't get much time on the foil until you figured out the pumping. With an external power source, you have time to place your feet, you can slowly increase speed and learn to steer the foil in small steps and you don't 'have' to pump to stay on foil. So you have more time on foil per session to learn it. And then you can ride along, high on mast and with enough speed and put the wing down and try to pump, which is a much safer startpoint than a dockstart I would say. I think you know how many sketchy falls can happen when learning a dockstart, so why not learn how to foil first.
And yes, you can be a "good" wingfoiler without knowing how to pump the foil, if you don't work towards it and only wingfoil in strong winds.
But wingfoilers I consider good, can drop their wing with an anchorman leash and ride a wave, and then pump back to their wing. And I have seen numerous wingfoilers do it and love to do it myself.
Anyway, starting from zero with the goal to learn pumpfoiling, I would say it's easiest or safest to learn foiling first with a power source which can be easily dropped, like getting pulled by a boat or a wing. You concluded yourself nicely, that the foildrive makes the transition to pumping too awkward or hard.
But advising people to jumping straight to dockstart and pumping feels like telling someone who can't ski to go straight to backcountry powder skiing if they want to learn it fastest. Yes it can be done, but still not good advice in my opinion, lol.
@@Rocco_Kurokawa YES ! That's exactly what I think and experienced. If you don't want to buy winging gear or a Foil Drive, try to practice behind a board or at a wakeboard cable park. Most parks these days do foil only events with less speed !!
Foildrive will give you a massive push in the Learningcurve "How to link and surf Boatwaves",but will never help you to learn pumping ....so the time for the assist will come and they will be much smaller(pod and motor) and lighter(batteries).
Why do you think that ?
Plenty of people learn pumping with Foildrive, including me.
It is just a convenient way to get on foil anywhere.
couldn't agree more
I don't agree. I think learning to foil and pump first is the easiest way to master the dock or running start. Use a wing, kite, board, Foil Drive or what ever and your learning curve will be much faster. I use the Foil Drive Slim with the smallest battery a lot and it only adds 2.4 kg to my set up. Because the weight is placed right under my back foot / mast position I don't really feel the weight once I am on foil. Even dipping the engine into the water is not a big issue and I can easily recover and keep pumping.
No it's not worth it had the v1 and V2 and it's stays in my garage when I go to the beach. I wanted to like it but foils are so good now it doesn't take much wind to wingfoil or waves to prone or downwind these days and it's so much more fun without the hassle and extra 5Kg
Gaël your videos are awesome, & always very informative. Unfortunately you weren't aware of some key elements for using FoilDrive when pump foiling, and you actually made it look more difficult than it is : ( It's terrific you're getting into Wing foiling and I look forward to the content you'll be posting on that. The amazing thing about foiling is that it's highly technical and each type of foiling is different, and the skills learned for one type of foiling, may not work or be quite different than another. For instance kite foiling is quite different than pump foiling or foiling behind a boat. Wing foiling is different than using a Foil Drive which again is different than prone or downwind. My feeling is though, after a few years you'll master all of the disciplines.
I call it "The Circle of Foil " ! Master different disciplines and use the gear cross those. Like using a pump foil for super light wind winging or a surf Foil for Foil Drive Wake Thief and so on (-:
Are you going to windfoil too?😋 I ask because I've been windfoiling for 5 seasons now but I'm just learning to wing and pump and paddle.🤭 I'm really enjoying your videos so thanks. There is so much foiling to do and so much fun to be had. It can keep you busy.
not planning to windfoil for now...
so many sports, so much fun, so many things to learn...
I am so glad watching your content because you are exactly touching all relevant topics and because this content is so rare still.
I am learning foil sports through the foil-assist path. Using dyi built on top of the board box.
I am at the stage doing hop and glide. The board is 90L , box is 3kg , I don't expect to succeed pumping, this will be another lighter setup probably.
In the meantime I can learn all the rest.
Yes, i felt that loosing of stability as soon as I hop - the board goes sideways, i solved it by going With the board
Nice, I have yet to be impressed by anyone on a Foil Drive. Maybe they are good for getting upwind, to a windline or for laps in surf?
they are doing cool things with it in prone and downwind, yeah...
If you ever happen to get to Mainz / Germany join me on a Foil Drive Wake Thief session ..... endless waves in the middle of Germany, does the trick for me (-:
A long way to go bro! Windfoiling gona take u years, Wing and SUP... Wish u luck and cadence. Or stick to what u like and skip the rest ;)
You should try to put FD onto your pump board and your mast and try running start.. see how that pumps with a tiny board.
that would be interesting, but what would you use it for then? it would still be impossible to waterstart so you would have to be super precise
@@gaeldaniele Once you are familiar with the Foil Drive even the smallest system with the smallest battery can start the GONG KLUBER ! It's all about practice. ...
Expensive toy overpriced why spend a lot of money to get the lightest board and hydrofoil and then put a heavy battery on it
My set up just adds 2.4 kg and having it under my back foot makes the weight almost disappear once I am on foil. I do get all the points against Foil Drive and I prefer to go unpowered, but I does have a lot of potential if you have a user case for it. Upwind downwinder, slappy waves, wake thief, so much you can do with it .....