Couldn't agree more about Thomas Disch, probably my favourite SF writer because of the tenor of his prose. I wrote an undergraduate thesis using Camp Concentration and books by Ballard and Aldiss for comparison, over 40 years ago now! Just last week I read Echo Round his Bones and then The Genocides, both for the first time, and it confirmed for me what a brilliant writer he was. I also have that same 'spaceship' edition of 334 on my shelves, a 1974 publication. I also had The Iron Dream in that paperback edition but couldn't get into it, and now it's lost. Spinrad has recently popped up on Facebook and seems as mad as a box of frogs. At one time I had both Dangerous Visions anthologies in first paperback publication, but I had a flood in my house about 10 years ago and lost a lot of (almost) priceless SF paperbacks. It's fascinating to watch you talk about these writers who for me, in my 20s, were core to my experience of SF. Silverberg was a favourite - especially Dying Inside, which I still love - alongside those collections of Aldiss short stories that seemed to come out almost monthly and had fabulous covers. I had a story turned down by Michael Moorcock for New Worlds, but he wrote a nice note which I kept in my wallet for years! I'm now catching up on the SF I can get hold of in used paperbacks in France, including Stand on Zanzibar, which I read when it came out, Greg Bear's Darwin's Radio, which is excellent, and Blindsight, which is just brilliant. I have many years to catch up on because I've mostly been reading crime for the last 30 years ... I think I still prefer 'modern' to 'contemporary' ... ;)
The New Wave writers were people I discovered around the same time as you and they've never been surpassed for me- that was the moment when Genre SF went fully Modernist and achieved its previous potential as far as I'm concerned- and by the mid 80s, the key players had reached or passed their apotheosis. I've not read that Bear- but have around ten others and I have read 'Blindsight', which is indeed very good. Great to hear from you, thanks for your comment!
@@outlawbookselleroriginal Darwin's Radio was my first Bear and I was very impressed. There's a lot of hard biology in it, if I can use that phrase, but it reads as a contemporary literary novel with a light dusting of SF - a kind of intelligent Michael Crichton. 😆
You talk about Spinrad espousing a common decency to each other. This is what builds community. It is what has brought us into civilization. I think you also said that Spinrad believed all isms eventually morph to fascism. Decency over isms. That simple.
I enjoy all your videos but particularly love these "synthesis" videos that tie it all together and put the focus on the best of the best. I liked the subtle graphics in this one too. Hope you are feeling alright.
RE: Caveat Lector I asked Ellison about that at a convention one time. He said ; "I've caught more shit for that than you can believe, and I was deadly fucking serious. Serious as a heart attack! Listen, I got a call from my publisher at the time. He said 'Harlan, what is in this book? It keeps fucking up the proofs {ie: proofreaders}! I'll put someone on it, and a couple days later I get a phone call and they tell me, 'give it to someone else. I can't do this anymore.' I'm on my fourth one.' So we worked out a plan to break up the stories and handed them out to different proofreaders on rotation. And we decided the book needed some kind of warning. And all the reviewers saw that and thought I was being cute. I was being deadly fucking serious. Sheesh, try to look out for a guy. . . " Just thought you and your followers would like to know. It was the first full Harlan Ellison book that I bought, and tried to read through. Three stories in one sitting, was my maximum, my mistake, and why I asked him. . .
Thanks for the shout out Steve. The other half of the part exchange will be in a haul video out tomorrow night. I picked up the 2nd Ellison anthology the other day, the pan 'lozenge' edition in 2 parts. Another erudite and informative video. 👍
Book of Skulls fits that intensity description perfectly. I loved the novel but it was a challenge. There is an emotional weight to Silverberg, even in his short work (Passengers, Born with the Dead).
'Skulls' is possibly now my fave Bob. Have you watched my video 'The Quantum Indeterminacy of Robert Silverberg' , which is about that novel? I included 'The Book of Skulls' in my book '100 Must Read Books For Men' too.
Is there something you can do to make the audio clearer? This is the second one of your videos I've watched and they've both had a very muddy audio. I loved your discussion though, especially bringing up Silverberg who seems to me shockingly underrated and unknown.
Thanks for this. Samuel R. Delany & Roger Zelazny are two of my favorites. "Rose for Ecclesiastes' is just such a beautifully written story. That's a lovely copy of 'This Immortal' you have!
Moderan: This time I may be ahead of the curve; I keep coming across books that I haven't heard of, by authors I'm unsure of, only for you to hold up the book within the next month and me realizing I should have grabbed it. This has gone on for some time. On my last trip to the local bookshop I sold some books, and used the credit to pick up pb's of Nightwalk, Shadrach in the Furnace, The Gate of Worlds, and I was going to get two more, when I came across a second-hand NYRB copy of Moderan. My first thought was " what pretensious nonsense is this? I've never heard of this. Is it some experimental author that NYRB is *'calling'* SF? " Then I reminded myself of how many times this has come back to haunt me since I've been watching you, and so I put a check on that critical response, that bookstore expert snark that lives within me and got it. So I got a cool book, and a victory over my inner critical voice - all thanks to the Outlaw Bookseller. . . Thanks pard!
Thanks Walter- NYRBs SF line is very good, overall, I'll be doing a themed video about them at some point as I've read or own(ed) pretty much all their list of skiffy.
I was a bit unhappy with the framing -which is down to my current ill health- so do watch the other New Wave videos here, which are much prettier! Cheers!
Sorry if I sound sycophantic, but, speaking just professionally, you're one of the few RUclipsrs I consider an expert when it comes to speculative fiction. I always end up adding to my TBR list after watching one of your videos. Your picks are always solid. I'm always humbled by how many of the Greats I have yet to read when I come to this channel. Could you please post a link to your books? Much appreciated.
There are links on the 'about' page if you click it and scroll down. I never call myself an expert, but after a lot of reading and bookselling, people started do so spontaneously, then of course I was approached to write my books- usually, writers go to publishers, with me it was my reputation that got me the deal. Not to disparage anyone on YT, but the fact is that anyone can start a channel and in many cases, the inexperienced reader will think those people are 'experts'- in the vast, vast majority of cases, they're not. Sometimes it is difficult for me to hold my tongue and not point out the incorrect information some of them come out with that people take as gospel, but there are many YTers I really like-usually because of their enthusiasm and love for SF. As I've said many times, reading scattershot-even a lot- means nothing without history and context to help evaluate it. This means research, conversation, critical thinking and reading. Stick with me, I'll keep it up-thanks!
@@outlawbookselleroriginal Thank you, sir, for replying. I highly value your judgment calls. It's selfish, though--you save me a lot of time do a lot of archaeological digging. The least I can do is buy one of your books.Cheers.
@@unstopitable Yes, of course, as a pro author I get a royalty on every copy bought. The only exception is if you bought the Bulgarian edition of '100 Must Read SF' as the publishers have never paid me a penny in royalties- just an upfront fee- and they owe me money for every copy sold there from the very first one and never have.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal Again, thanks for replying. Sorry to hear that. What I'll do: I'll finish restoring my Kindle, and then purchase the book digitally. The reason why I asked in the first place: According to Amazon, there are only 3 new copies of 100 Must-read Science Fiction Novels available, and it just seemed strange to me. And, of course, if I were to buy it used, I figured you wouldn't get anything. Thanks, Outlaw. I've taken up enough of your time. Cheers.
Good to see Moderan mentioned. It's one of the great 'unknown' SF books but would be in my Top Twenty for the creative vision and unique use of the language. A tragi-comic take on war and mechanisation.
I rarely hear it mentioned, but then, I wasn't surprised when you did because you regularly feature WSB who, for my money, is an SF legend in terms of influence on the New Wave.
Your mention of Jean Genet in relation to Delany brought back flashbacks and memories of the late 60s and early 70s when I read a lot of Genet, A Thief's Journal, Our Lady of the Flowers, and other works. He impressed me at the time because of his support of the Black Panther Party. I had most of his books, but unfortunately in my moving and roving from place to place until I ended up on a Caribbean isle, I lost or misplaced them. Nevertheless I do remember the bliss of Genet's prose.
I don't have mine either anymore- used to have lovely Penguin Modern Classics- the current Faber ones are pretty dull, but the single NYRB one is handsome, as you see.
Serendipity rules! Watched the video this morning then scored a copy of The Dreams Our Stuff Is Made of at a local bookstore. Big fan of Thomas M. Disch. Real shame about his sad ending. Then I realized I got a copy of Earth's Other Shadow earlier this week at a library sale. Been looking forward to this video and it definitely lived up to expectations.
The new wave spawned some of my favourite authors and still some I’ve not got to yet. Disch and spinnrad are sadly missing in my reading experience . But it’s soon to be rectified the genocides and 334 the iron dream will be here soon ,can’t believe I never picked iron dream up years back had it in my hand so many times just for the cover in second hand shops then not got it .Doh 🙄 A wonderful episode don’t worry about the framing the real meat is here as you always say brilliant as ever mate 👍🏻👍🏻thank you
Those are probably the most sensationalist novels by those two, but essential reading and very good indeed. Spinrad is not writing in his 'voice' in 'Iron', but that of the average hack writer- and it's deliberate. Try 'Bug Jack Baron' after that one. TD is always a joy, people overlook his books 'The Puppies of Terra' (aka 'Mankind Under The Leash') and 'Echo Round His Bones', both worth reading, but 'Camp' and '334' are probably his best. Onwards!
Love the cover of puppies of terra saw it cheap will grab it quick ! Echo and camp will be on tbr for sure . Still working my way through the PK D silverberg, priest catalog book by book whilst throwing in bits of malzberg and M John , Keith roberts to name a but few what a wonderful dilemma so many first reads many thanks mate .
I don't name the other one, as I', yet to make a video about it but will do soon. Otherwise I'm speaking about 'Downward to the Earth'. If you check the other Silverberg channels on the video, I cover a lot of his work. Thanks you too.
@@keithdixon6595 I covered 'Dying Inside' in a video on the channel last year and did a half-hour analysis of 'Tower of Glass' round about january-check the Silverberg playlist on the channel for these. So it's something else...
I'm loving this vid. Not only lots of content, but close to something I was going to ask for ( sorry for the inelegant wording): Perhaps written in a book, but easily done as videos, listing SF authors and let's say three essential works. (I know that's kind of your book concept isn't it?) I know, you're always dancing around this concept anyway- Essential works, Important works, Forgotten gems. . . Ungh. This post isn't helping anyone,is it,?
I think this only works with some kind of limit on it- how many authors is a starting point, really? But as you say, this is what my book is about up to a point, but it's really about covering the THEMES as much as the writers' 'best' works, so that's why I selected 'The Languages of Pao' by Jack Vance to cover linguistics, when it's far from one of his most lauded books. 'Best' is personal, I think.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal I get what you're saying, but it is really a useful resource. ( Heck, *you* are a useful resource!) Especially in this concise of a statement. Take Tom Disch for example: You've mentioned him, and these books in other videos, but here you tell us; Genocides - breakthrough novel, 334 -outstanding themed collection, Camp Concentration - perhaps greatest work. To have listings like that for John Shirley, Richard Cowper and so many others that are harder to get good information on. You have my permission to skip Isaac Asimov. . .
@@salty-walt -Well, let's just say I'll get to all these in good time....I'm doing an author overview soon of someone I've mentioned a lot recently, so will apply your idea.
I am a big fan of Silverberg as well. Read 'To Live Again' recently. Googled it before I bought it and came across someone saying how misogynistic it was. I thought "Mmm, must get that, sounds interesting!" Was it misogynistic? Of course not. I almost felt cheated! Very good book. Also read 'Master of Life and Death' and 'Stepsons of Terra' recently. You haven't mentioned the latter but I loved it, a great time travel story.
People keep going on about Silverberg and the relationships his leading characters often have with women. To me, he is writing authentically about those characters and their specific maleness- a lot of readers now simply cannot cope with this and foolishly assume that men and women are the same. They also forget that these are fictional beings and not essentially representations of Silverberg himself. In short, I find these objections unsophisticated and based on expectations of what fiction should be and is- an art form with few if any rules. I've always seen these expressions of love, lust, longing and achievement as illustrations of his key themes - power, transformation, transcendence and redemption. I even find SIlverberg's rich, powerful, wealthy characters sympathetically human, flawed and inspiring- such as Krug in 'Tower of Glass', who isn't always admirable, but who displays a multifaceted nature. The author is now bound to represent women in these narratives in the manner people want or expect- his only moral commitment should be to his vision. If he does not want to- or does not feel he can express a more female-centric view, I don't see that as a bad thing. Few artists have no limits.
Hi Stephen! One question: would you consider new wave sf necessarily always postmodern? Or do you find a clear distinction between those categories? Thank you!
No, I don't think I said it was Postmodern- it's from the Modernist period so is definitively Modern. Postmodernism comes later and although it draws on Modernism, it relies much, much more on parody, pastiche, the 'sampling' of other works- in other words, unoriginality as opposed to originality, and the endless play of symbols and surfaces. New Wave fed less on established SF than does Postmodern SF- of which the original authentic Cyberpunk writing feeds into. Much of the Recursive SF published from the late 1980s on -SF that is about SF and cod-retro geeky, fake 'subgenres' like 'Dieselpunk'- where bad writers just riff on earlier ideas are Postmodern. If you look at the American Fabular writing of the 1960s - Pynchon, Barth, Gardner, Coover- you see the start of Postmodernist ideas coming into fiction at the edge of SF (and to a degree anything which is self-referential has elements that point at Postmodernism). I'd suggest reading something like 'Introducing Postmodernism' by Garrett and Appignanesi for clarity. Modernism arises out of Romanticism, which itself is a reaction to the Enlightement. Postmodernism undermines- or seeks to undermine these things- 'Neuromancer', for all its surface sheen, is Romantic (watch my video on Frankenstein, Romanticism and Cyberpunk) and owes more to the meshing of New Wave and Hard SF. People like Ballard prepared us for Postmodernism, but that doesn't mean he liked it or wanted to be part of it.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal i will definitely look for that Garrett book. I'm planning on reading some Barth and will star with Lost in the Funhouse because it's the one I got with me. Thanks a lot!
I have most of them, missing a few early ones, have them in hardcover and paperback-they are visible in some of my videos. They are the more conservative, traditionalist end of 1960s British SF, as Carnel moved from NW letting Moorcock go wild with it. They do have some front rank material in them at times, I have issues featuring work by Chris Priest and M John Harrison, signed by both of them, for example. I am aiming to complete my collection and will do a video when I have done so.
@@eggbert6900 Carnell was VERY respected and loved in the British SF community, since he fostered New Worlds for decades and despite veering toward the traditional, he did champion Ballard- I'd say it really depends on how interested you are in the development of traditional British SF - like moat anthologies, New Writings are mixed bags- they are good for winnowing out obscurities, but many of these writers failed to break through big time for a reason.
My books have been moved since then, so describe the colour of the spine and if it was laying flat on top of other books or if you mean one of the 'upright' properly shelved titles.
@@ΧάρηςΚωστόγιαννης -that's UK Jonathan Cape signed first edition of 'Jailbird' by Kurt Vonnegut, a beautifully designed book, but a minor one in KV's oeuvre.
It is a pity that your channel is (almost) exclusively anglo-centrist. There are some very good SF writers in other european countries. I am most familiar with France (Rene Barjavel, Pierre Boulle, Stephane Beauverger, Stefan Wul, Jean-Pierre Andrevon, Alain Damasio, GJ Arnaud... to name just a few). It would be interesting if you were to make a video about the non-anglo-saxon world. I could provide you a list for France, Germany, and Italy if you so wish.
I have read and mentioned Polish, Russian, Japanese, Italian, French SF writers here. I've also read Dutch, Finnish, Argentine, German and Cuban SF writers among others. Consequently, I've read more widely in terms of international SF than many readers. Boulle, for example, was one of the very first SF writers I read when I was around ten years old. Life is short, there are many books and I am 61 years of age, plus I tend to read and cover what I want to, plus a lot of non-anglophone SF is not translated. I'm afraid that a more global approach will be for younger readers now who have more time ahead of them.
No quibbles from me, Steve. But ... hahaha... My feeling is that the British new wave was essentially a left leaning 'movement' in a political sense. You'll know as well as I do that left of centre fiction writers almost always twnd to produce more interesting work, simply because their potential literary canvas is larger, than those on the right, who are mostly content to wallow in the comfort of the undemanding status quo. Those American writers who decamped to London found that was was happening there liberated them to a degree and for a while. America has no real tradition of left-wing politics, both the Republican Party and the Democratic Party are parties of the right by any rational standard. Even most of the 'commies' the McCarthy witch-hunts attempted to weed out were not really left-wing, but more centrists who were not far enough right for the ultra-conservative extremists. Given that, it's not surprising that Dangerous Visions wasn't really as groundbreaking as Ellison claimed, nonetheless it contains many fine stories. David R. Bunch... who in their right mind would not want to read stories with titles such as 'The Walking, Talking I Don't Care Man'?
APOLOGIES FOR THE WORST FRAMING EVER- I'm afraid the side-effects of my meds undermined me here!
True, but it is a victory over the text block bloc. 😉
I was certain it was done on purpose as a joke :)
@@arekkrolak6320 -If only that were true!
Couldn't agree more about Thomas Disch, probably my favourite SF writer because of the tenor of his prose. I wrote an undergraduate thesis using Camp Concentration and books by Ballard and Aldiss for comparison, over 40 years ago now! Just last week I read Echo Round his Bones and then The Genocides, both for the first time, and it confirmed for me what a brilliant writer he was. I also have that same 'spaceship' edition of 334 on my shelves, a 1974 publication. I also had The Iron Dream in that paperback edition but couldn't get into it, and now it's lost. Spinrad has recently popped up on Facebook and seems as mad as a box of frogs. At one time I had both Dangerous Visions anthologies in first paperback publication, but I had a flood in my house about 10 years ago and lost a lot of (almost) priceless SF paperbacks. It's fascinating to watch you talk about these writers who for me, in my 20s, were core to my experience of SF. Silverberg was a favourite - especially Dying Inside, which I still love - alongside those collections of Aldiss short stories that seemed to come out almost monthly and had fabulous covers. I had a story turned down by Michael Moorcock for New Worlds, but he wrote a nice note which I kept in my wallet for years! I'm now catching up on the SF I can get hold of in used paperbacks in France, including Stand on Zanzibar, which I read when it came out, Greg Bear's Darwin's Radio, which is excellent, and Blindsight, which is just brilliant. I have many years to catch up on because I've mostly been reading crime for the last 30 years ... I think I still prefer 'modern' to 'contemporary' ... ;)
The New Wave writers were people I discovered around the same time as you and they've never been surpassed for me- that was the moment when Genre SF went fully Modernist and achieved its previous potential as far as I'm concerned- and by the mid 80s, the key players had reached or passed their apotheosis. I've not read that Bear- but have around ten others and I have read 'Blindsight', which is indeed very good. Great to hear from you, thanks for your comment!
@@outlawbookselleroriginal Darwin's Radio was my first Bear and I was very impressed. There's a lot of hard biology in it, if I can use that phrase, but it reads as a contemporary literary novel with a light dusting of SF - a kind of intelligent Michael Crichton. 😆
You talk about Spinrad espousing a common decency to each other. This is what builds community. It is what has brought us into civilization. I think you also said that Spinrad believed all isms eventually morph to fascism. Decency over isms. That simple.
Yep, works for me!
I enjoy all your videos but particularly love these "synthesis" videos that tie it all together and put the focus on the best of the best. I liked the subtle graphics in this one too. Hope you are feeling alright.
I'm a bit spaced out, if truth be told, but The Video Widow (my partner) says that's nothing new...thanks for your kind comment!
RE: Caveat Lector
I asked Ellison about that at a convention one time. He said ;
"I've caught more shit for that than you can believe, and I was deadly fucking serious. Serious as a heart attack!
Listen, I got a call from my publisher at the time. He said 'Harlan, what is in this book? It keeps fucking up the proofs {ie: proofreaders}! I'll put someone on it, and a couple days later I get a phone call and they tell me, 'give it to someone else. I can't do this anymore.' I'm on my fourth one.'
So we worked out a plan to break up the stories and handed them out to different proofreaders on rotation. And we decided the book needed some kind of warning. And all the reviewers saw that and thought I was being cute. I was being deadly fucking serious. Sheesh, try to look out for a guy. . . "
Just thought you and your followers would like to know.
It was the first full Harlan Ellison book that I bought, and tried to read through.
Three stories in one sitting, was my maximum, my mistake, and why I asked him. . .
I'm assuming you mean 'Deathbird Stories'? I love it.
Cool story !
Thanks for the shout out Steve. The other half of the part exchange will be in a haul video out tomorrow night. I picked up the 2nd Ellison anthology the other day, the pan 'lozenge' edition in 2 parts.
Another erudite and informative video. 👍
Nice. I will be showing 'To Live Again' again - ouch, poor syntax- in another video since I messed the framing up on this one!
Book of Skulls fits that intensity description perfectly. I loved the novel but it was a challenge. There is an emotional weight to Silverberg, even in his short work (Passengers, Born with the Dead).
'Skulls' is possibly now my fave Bob. Have you watched my video 'The Quantum Indeterminacy of Robert Silverberg' , which is about that novel? I included 'The Book of Skulls' in my book '100 Must Read Books For Men' too.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal i will check it out.
Is there something you can do to make the audio clearer? This is the second one of your videos I've watched and they've both had a very muddy audio. I loved your discussion though, especially bringing up Silverberg who seems to me shockingly underrated and unknown.
I think I already commented on the thread that I was very unwell recording this, so apologies. Which other one had muddy audio? Do let me know.
I love the " not like having ten pints" analogy. Rock and roll.
Thanks for this.
Samuel R. Delany & Roger Zelazny are two of my favorites. "Rose for Ecclesiastes' is just such a beautifully written story. That's a lovely copy of 'This Immortal' you have!
Yes, two of the greatest!
Moderan:
This time I may be ahead of the curve; I keep coming across books that I haven't heard of, by authors I'm unsure of, only for you to hold up the book within the next month and me realizing I should have grabbed it. This has gone on for some time. On my last trip to the local bookshop I sold some books, and used the credit to pick up pb's of Nightwalk, Shadrach in the Furnace, The Gate of Worlds, and I was going to get two more, when I came across a second-hand NYRB copy of Moderan. My first thought was " what pretensious nonsense is this? I've never heard of this. Is it some experimental author that NYRB is *'calling'* SF? " Then I reminded myself of how many times this has come back to haunt me since I've been watching you, and so I put a check on that critical response, that bookstore expert snark that lives within me and got it.
So I got a cool book, and a victory over my inner critical voice - all thanks to the Outlaw Bookseller. . .
Thanks pard!
Thanks Walter- NYRBs SF line is very good, overall, I'll be doing a themed video about them at some point as I've read or own(ed) pretty much all their list of skiffy.
Great to have my suspicions backed up on many points also fantastic cover on The Dream Master - looks like Lebbeus Woods
It is Woods, I think.
Hi outlaw bookseller great video 👍
I was a bit unhappy with the framing -which is down to my current ill health- so do watch the other New Wave videos here, which are much prettier! Cheers!
Sorry if I sound sycophantic, but, speaking just professionally, you're one of the few RUclipsrs I consider an expert when it comes to speculative fiction. I always end up adding to my TBR list after watching one of your videos. Your picks are always solid. I'm always humbled by how many of the Greats I have yet to read when I come to this channel. Could you please post a link to your books? Much appreciated.
There are links on the 'about' page if you click it and scroll down. I never call myself an expert, but after a lot of reading and bookselling, people started do so spontaneously, then of course I was approached to write my books- usually, writers go to publishers, with me it was my reputation that got me the deal. Not to disparage anyone on YT, but the fact is that anyone can start a channel and in many cases, the inexperienced reader will think those people are 'experts'- in the vast, vast majority of cases, they're not. Sometimes it is difficult for me to hold my tongue and not point out the incorrect information some of them come out with that people take as gospel, but there are many YTers I really like-usually because of their enthusiasm and love for SF. As I've said many times, reading scattershot-even a lot- means nothing without history and context to help evaluate it. This means research, conversation, critical thinking and reading. Stick with me, I'll keep it up-thanks!
@@outlawbookselleroriginal Thank you, sir, for replying. I highly value your judgment calls. It's selfish, though--you save me a lot of time do a lot of archaeological digging. The least I can do is buy one of your books.Cheers.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal If I buy it new, will you get some of the proceeds? (I have to re-do my Kindle--reformat it, as it were, to a new account.)
@@unstopitable Yes, of course, as a pro author I get a royalty on every copy bought. The only exception is if you bought the Bulgarian edition of '100 Must Read SF' as the publishers have never paid me a penny in royalties- just an upfront fee- and they owe me money for every copy sold there from the very first one and never have.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal Again, thanks for replying. Sorry to hear that. What I'll do: I'll finish restoring my Kindle, and then purchase the book digitally. The reason why I asked in the first place: According to Amazon, there are only 3 new copies of 100 Must-read Science Fiction Novels available, and it just seemed strange to me. And, of course, if I were to buy it used, I figured you wouldn't get anything. Thanks, Outlaw. I've taken up enough of your time. Cheers.
Good to see Moderan mentioned. It's one of the great 'unknown' SF books but would be in my Top Twenty for the creative vision and unique use of the language. A tragi-comic take on war and mechanisation.
Yes, no-one ever talks about it, I find.
I rarely hear it mentioned, but then, I wasn't surprised when you did because you regularly feature WSB who, for my money, is an SF legend in terms of influence on the New Wave.
Your mention of Jean Genet in relation to Delany brought back flashbacks and memories of the late 60s and early 70s when I read a lot of Genet, A Thief's Journal, Our Lady of the Flowers, and other works. He impressed me at the time because of his support of the Black Panther Party. I had most of his books, but unfortunately in my moving and roving from place to place until I ended up on a Caribbean isle, I lost or misplaced them. Nevertheless I do remember the bliss of Genet's prose.
I don't have mine either anymore- used to have lovely Penguin Modern Classics- the current Faber ones are pretty dull, but the single NYRB one is handsome, as you see.
Serendipity rules! Watched the video this morning then scored a copy of The Dreams Our Stuff Is Made of at a local bookstore. Big fan of Thomas M. Disch. Real shame about his sad ending. Then I realized I got a copy of Earth's Other Shadow earlier this week at a library sale. Been looking forward to this video and it definitely lived up to expectations.
Great book, that one. Well, I messed the framing up due to ill health, but I hope the meat was there in the video.
The two Bunch stories in Dangerous Visions (the only author to get two stories) are gems. And very weird like all Bunch.
Yes, that's where I first read him.
The new wave spawned some of my favourite authors and still some I’ve not got to yet. Disch and spinnrad are sadly missing in my reading experience . But it’s soon to be rectified the genocides and 334 the iron dream will be here soon ,can’t believe I never picked iron dream up years back had it in my hand so many times just for the cover in second hand shops then not got it .Doh 🙄 A wonderful episode don’t worry about the framing the real meat is here as you always say brilliant as ever mate 👍🏻👍🏻thank you
Those are probably the most sensationalist novels by those two, but essential reading and very good indeed. Spinrad is not writing in his 'voice' in 'Iron', but that of the average hack writer- and it's deliberate. Try 'Bug Jack Baron' after that one. TD is always a joy, people overlook his books 'The Puppies of Terra' (aka 'Mankind Under The Leash') and 'Echo Round His Bones', both worth reading, but 'Camp' and '334' are probably his best. Onwards!
Love the cover of puppies of terra saw it cheap will grab it quick ! Echo and camp will be on tbr for sure . Still working my way through the PK D silverberg, priest catalog book by book whilst throwing in bits of malzberg and M John , Keith roberts to name a but few what a wonderful dilemma so many first reads many thanks mate .
@@themojocorpse1290 -Take your time with the reading, but keeping buying that good s*** up!
Thanks for another great video. What is the other great Silverberg book you mention @30:12 I couldn't quite catch it
I don't name the other one, as I', yet to make a video about it but will do soon. Otherwise I'm speaking about 'Downward to the Earth'. If you check the other Silverberg channels on the video, I cover a lot of his work. Thanks you too.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal Hope it's Dying Inside! (Though I suppose it might be Tower of Glass)
@@keithdixon6595 I covered 'Dying Inside' in a video on the channel last year and did a half-hour analysis of 'Tower of Glass' round about january-check the Silverberg playlist on the channel for these. So it's something else...
@@outlawbookselleroriginal Ooh!
@@outlawbookselleroriginal Thanks again, looking forward to the next one! Take care!
DANGEROUS VISIONS is very much an Ellison book for me. I believe LAST DANGEROUS VISIONS is being compiled by Ellison's estate.
Yes, it's supposedly coming this year....we'll see, I guess.
I'm loving this vid. Not only lots of content, but close to something I was going to ask for ( sorry for the inelegant wording):
Perhaps written in a book, but easily done as videos, listing SF authors and let's say three essential works. (I know that's kind of your book concept isn't it?)
I know, you're always dancing around this concept anyway-
Essential works,
Important works,
Forgotten gems. . .
Ungh.
This post isn't helping anyone,is it,?
I think this only works with some kind of limit on it- how many authors is a starting point, really? But as you say, this is what my book is about up to a point, but it's really about covering the THEMES as much as the writers' 'best' works, so that's why I selected 'The Languages of Pao' by Jack Vance to cover linguistics, when it's far from one of his most lauded books. 'Best' is personal, I think.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal I get what you're saying, but it is really a useful resource. ( Heck, *you* are a useful resource!) Especially in this concise of a statement. Take Tom Disch for example:
You've mentioned him, and these books in other videos, but here you tell us; Genocides - breakthrough novel, 334 -outstanding themed collection, Camp Concentration - perhaps greatest work.
To have listings like that for John Shirley, Richard Cowper and so many others that are harder to get good information on.
You have my permission to skip Isaac Asimov. . .
@@salty-walt -Well, let's just say I'll get to all these in good time....I'm doing an author overview soon of someone I've mentioned a lot recently, so will apply your idea.
I am a big fan of Silverberg as well. Read 'To Live Again' recently. Googled it before I bought it and came across someone saying how misogynistic it was. I thought "Mmm, must get that, sounds interesting!" Was it misogynistic? Of course not. I almost felt cheated! Very good book. Also read 'Master of Life and Death' and 'Stepsons of Terra' recently. You haven't mentioned the latter but I loved it, a great time travel story.
People keep going on about Silverberg and the relationships his leading characters often have with women. To me, he is writing authentically about those characters and their specific maleness- a lot of readers now simply cannot cope with this and foolishly assume that men and women are the same. They also forget that these are fictional beings and not essentially representations of Silverberg himself. In short, I find these objections unsophisticated and based on expectations of what fiction should be and is- an art form with few if any rules. I've always seen these expressions of love, lust, longing and achievement as illustrations of his key themes - power, transformation, transcendence and redemption. I even find SIlverberg's rich, powerful, wealthy characters sympathetically human, flawed and inspiring- such as Krug in 'Tower of Glass', who isn't always admirable, but who displays a multifaceted nature. The author is now bound to represent women in these narratives in the manner people want or expect- his only moral commitment should be to his vision. If he does not want to- or does not feel he can express a more female-centric view, I don't see that as a bad thing. Few artists have no limits.
Hi Stephen! One question: would you consider new wave sf necessarily always postmodern? Or do you find a clear distinction between those categories? Thank you!
No, I don't think I said it was Postmodern- it's from the Modernist period so is definitively Modern. Postmodernism comes later and although it draws on Modernism, it relies much, much more on parody, pastiche, the 'sampling' of other works- in other words, unoriginality as opposed to originality, and the endless play of symbols and surfaces. New Wave fed less on established SF than does Postmodern SF- of which the original authentic Cyberpunk writing feeds into. Much of the Recursive SF published from the late 1980s on -SF that is about SF and cod-retro geeky, fake 'subgenres' like 'Dieselpunk'- where bad writers just riff on earlier ideas are Postmodern. If you look at the American Fabular writing of the 1960s - Pynchon, Barth, Gardner, Coover- you see the start of Postmodernist ideas coming into fiction at the edge of SF (and to a degree anything which is self-referential has elements that point at Postmodernism). I'd suggest reading something like 'Introducing Postmodernism' by Garrett and Appignanesi for clarity. Modernism arises out of Romanticism, which itself is a reaction to the Enlightement. Postmodernism undermines- or seeks to undermine these things- 'Neuromancer', for all its surface sheen, is Romantic (watch my video on Frankenstein, Romanticism and Cyberpunk) and owes more to the meshing of New Wave and Hard SF. People like Ballard prepared us for Postmodernism, but that doesn't mean he liked it or wanted to be part of it.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal i will definitely look for that Garrett book. I'm planning on reading some Barth and will star with Lost in the Funhouse because it's the one I got with me. Thanks a lot!
What are your thoughts on the 'new writings in sf' anthologies, edited by John Carnell
I have most of them, missing a few early ones, have them in hardcover and paperback-they are visible in some of my videos. They are the more conservative, traditionalist end of 1960s British SF, as Carnel moved from NW letting Moorcock go wild with it. They do have some front rank material in them at times, I have issues featuring work by Chris Priest and M John Harrison, signed by both of them, for example. I am aiming to complete my collection and will do a video when I have done so.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal thank you. Are they worth buying for a newer reader would you think? Is Carnell a well respected editor?
@@eggbert6900 Carnell was VERY respected and loved in the British SF community, since he fostered New Worlds for decades and despite veering toward the traditional, he did champion Ballard- I'd say it really depends on how interested you are in the development of traditional British SF - like moat anthologies, New Writings are mixed bags- they are good for winnowing out obscurities, but many of these writers failed to break through big time for a reason.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal thank you, that's really helpful.
Hi i just wanted to ask what's that book to the right of gold coast book kim stanley robinson i could not make out the words on the spine.
My books have been moved since then, so describe the colour of the spine and if it was laying flat on top of other books or if you mean one of the 'upright' properly shelved titles.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal The book was standing up right and i think i can see some mountains and a forest on the bottom of the spine.
@@ΧάρηςΚωστόγιαννης -Can't identify it from that, what colours? what colours are the spines either side of it?
@@outlawbookselleroriginal the spine looks blue and green and on the video its below a book named firecode.
@@ΧάρηςΚωστόγιαννης -that's UK Jonathan Cape signed first edition of 'Jailbird' by Kurt Vonnegut, a beautifully designed book, but a minor one in KV's oeuvre.
It is a pity that your channel is (almost) exclusively anglo-centrist. There are some very good SF writers in other european countries. I am most familiar with France (Rene Barjavel, Pierre Boulle, Stephane Beauverger, Stefan Wul, Jean-Pierre Andrevon, Alain Damasio, GJ Arnaud... to name just a few). It would be interesting if you were to make a video about the non-anglo-saxon world. I could provide you a list for France, Germany, and Italy if you so wish.
I have read and mentioned Polish, Russian, Japanese, Italian, French SF writers here. I've also read Dutch, Finnish, Argentine, German and Cuban SF writers among others. Consequently, I've read more widely in terms of international SF than many readers. Boulle, for example, was one of the very first SF writers I read when I was around ten years old. Life is short, there are many books and I am 61 years of age, plus I tend to read and cover what I want to, plus a lot of non-anglophone SF is not translated. I'm afraid that a more global approach will be for younger readers now who have more time ahead of them.
No quibbles from me, Steve. But ... hahaha...
My feeling is that the British new wave was essentially a left leaning 'movement' in a political sense. You'll know as well as I do that left of centre fiction writers almost always twnd to produce more interesting work, simply because their potential literary canvas is larger, than those on the right, who are mostly content to wallow in the comfort of the undemanding status quo. Those American writers who decamped to London found that was was happening there liberated them to a degree and for a while. America has no real tradition of left-wing politics, both the Republican Party and the Democratic Party are parties of the right by any rational standard. Even most of the 'commies' the McCarthy witch-hunts attempted to weed out were not really left-wing, but more centrists who were not far enough right for the ultra-conservative extremists. Given that, it's not surprising that Dangerous Visions wasn't really as groundbreaking as Ellison claimed, nonetheless it contains many fine stories.
David R. Bunch... who in their right mind would not want to read stories with titles such as 'The Walking, Talking I Don't Care Man'?
Completely agree James!