it reminds me of a story I heard, a great singer maybe Tansen? was asked by a king to come and sing for him, the singer was reluctant but somehow did sing for him. Then the king said "how is it your singing is not so touching as usual" the singer replied "usually I sing for God but today I am siging only for you!!!"
quite disappointed with the narrator. "Divine prostitutes"? Nonsense. And he said the Muslims were the ones who frowned upon the sensuality of bharatanatyam, but it was infact the british. Ignorance. And, of course I could be wrong, but i can hear a tinge of sarcasm in his voice in the beginning!
real pandanallur style of bharatanatyam...strong and full of grace... unfortunately these so called visioneries have done more harm than good...ripped dance off all its grace and elegance in the name of puritanical nonsense...alarmel valli is such a delightful exception to this...
I'm reliably informed, once temple patronage had been declining, that the dancers & priests had to look elsewhere for finance. This meant dancing for royalty as one way of getting money. The dances were composed then in praise of a king, prince or whatever & so lost its original sanctity because it wasn't in praise of God. Nick
Did you see my clip of Kalanidhi Narayanan talking about abhinaya? I don't know whether a lot of her class was filmed but THAT clip focussed a lot on her describing sexual activities & I asked viewers what they thought of her teaching. Nick
We must NOT forget that this style of temple dancing had been dropping its standards for a long time BEFORE the British saw it. Great luminairies such as Smt Rukmini Devi saw it & wanted to make it popular with INDIANS again. She could only do this by, shall we say, 'cleaning it up' a little. Nick
Good points but who decides what's erotic or just plain vulgar? This is the thing! I find a lot of so called classical dances in Bollywood films, even in the 50s & 60s, vulgar as the dancer writhes around on the floor like a snake. I know Bollywood movies are not to be trusted although I found the Thillana in 'Chori Chori' as near as it gets to a 'true' performance even though she does fall on the floor at some point. Nick
No doubt - they aren't even in the same league. After all, Kajuraho's eroticism is all about bringing the bhakta into a state of ecstatic joy, and Bollywood is like candy floss - sweet and cute, but really junk food, and it will make you wanna hurl if you indulge in it too much.
Is sensuality any less spiritual? Please go read the Bible and you will see in it the Song of Songs, which is very sensual. The English forgot this poem when they went to India to 'civilise' Indians. What a joke! Plus, is the Geeta Govinda, widely used in Bharatanatyam and Odissi, vulgar? Please go read it and see what it is all about. If you read it as only to do with sex, then you miss the wider aspect of the beloved (bhakta) yearning to rejoin the lover (deva).
I see your point but I don't beleive sex/eroticism is vulgar in itself. It depends on how much emphasis is put on the sexual act in BN that matters IMO. My style is from 1960s Kalakshetra. My teacher's guru trained yhere along with the famoous Dhananjayans as classmates. It appears, up to the former part of the 20th century BN had been bogged down in vulgarism & had to be 'cleansed' a bit. Nick
I hate the commentator. Why use a western commentator to explain an Indian phenomenon, when he clearly dont understand it? It was as my religion book talking about Hinduism, when it was clear that the author could not grasp the concept at all.
Devadasi's are NOT Prostitutes.Just common sense "if local Raja's or Zamindars entertain by dance why any women become Pro."No culture/community encourages pro. even though every city have brothels(all around the world). B'coz of Pisslamic/brit invasion few/many turned into pro. for their living.
Her opinion of Madras is outdone now, its filled with rude people when compared to other places in Tamil Nadu
it reminds me of a story I heard, a great singer maybe Tansen? was asked by a king to come and sing for him, the singer was reluctant but somehow did sing for him. Then the king said "how is it your singing is not so touching as usual" the singer replied "usually I sing for God but today I am siging only for you!!!"
Alamer Valli is the legend of the dance in this era.
What was so special about her ?
amazing .thanks for uploading.
Is that Chokkalingam Pillai or Subbaraya Pillai in the last few seconds of your clip? I don't think anyone has captured footage of either of them.
quite disappointed with the narrator. "Divine prostitutes"? Nonsense. And he said the Muslims were the ones who frowned upon the sensuality of bharatanatyam, but it was infact the british. Ignorance. And, of course I could be wrong, but i can hear a tinge of sarcasm in his voice in the beginning!
Indra Rajan rendering the jathi at the beginning?
real pandanallur style of bharatanatyam...strong and full of grace... unfortunately these so called visioneries have done more harm than good...ripped dance off all its grace and elegance in the name of puritanical nonsense...alarmel valli is such a delightful exception to this...
Not sure as I don't know her gurus. His name's not mentioned, I recall.
Nick
I'm reliably informed, once temple patronage had been declining, that the dancers & priests had to look elsewhere for finance. This meant dancing for royalty as one way of getting money. The dances were composed then in praise of a king, prince or whatever & so lost its original sanctity because it wasn't in praise of God.
Nick
Very good answer, thanks.
Nick
Did you see my clip of Kalanidhi Narayanan talking about abhinaya? I don't know whether a lot of her class was filmed but THAT clip focussed a lot on her describing sexual activities & I asked viewers what they thought of her teaching.
Nick
What is that piece they were singing?
We must NOT forget that this style of temple dancing had been dropping its standards for a long time BEFORE the British saw it. Great luminairies such as Smt Rukmini Devi saw it & wanted to make it popular with INDIANS again. She could only do this by, shall we say, 'cleaning it up' a little.
Nick
Good points but who decides what's erotic or just plain vulgar? This is the thing!
I find a lot of so called classical dances in Bollywood films, even in the 50s & 60s, vulgar as the dancer writhes around on the floor like a snake. I know Bollywood movies are not to be trusted although I found the Thillana in 'Chori Chori' as near as it gets to a 'true' performance even though she does fall on the floor at some point.
Nick
Its Subbaraya Pillai.
No doubt - they aren't even in the same league. After all, Kajuraho's eroticism is all about bringing the bhakta into a state of ecstatic joy, and Bollywood is like candy floss - sweet and cute, but really junk food, and it will make you wanna hurl if you indulge in it too much.
Rightly said!
Is sensuality any less spiritual? Please go read the Bible and you will see in it the Song of Songs, which is very sensual. The English forgot this poem when they went to India to 'civilise' Indians. What a joke! Plus, is the Geeta Govinda, widely used in Bharatanatyam and Odissi, vulgar? Please go read it and see what it is all about. If you read it as only to do with sex, then you miss the wider aspect of the beloved (bhakta) yearning to rejoin the lover (deva).
I see your point but I don't beleive sex/eroticism is vulgar in itself. It depends on how much emphasis is put on the sexual act in BN that matters IMO. My style is from 1960s Kalakshetra. My teacher's guru trained yhere along with the famoous Dhananjayans as classmates. It appears, up to the former part of the 20th century BN had been bogged down in vulgarism & had to be 'cleansed' a bit.
Nick
I hate the commentator. Why use a western commentator to explain an Indian phenomenon, when he clearly dont understand it? It was as my religion book talking about Hinduism, when it was clear that the author could not grasp the concept at all.
Devadasi's are NOT Prostitutes.Just common sense "if local Raja's or Zamindars entertain by dance why any women become Pro."No culture/community encourages pro. even though every city have brothels(all around the world).
B'coz of Pisslamic/brit invasion few/many turned into pro. for their living.
Divine prostitutes? Really? Poorly researched and inaccurate report. The young lady's report is the saving grace.
Absolutely..
There's a very big difference between sexual eroticism as at Kajuraho for example & the cheap vulgarity of a 10th rate Bollywood movie.
Nick
Sex is only for procreation.If u look from that point it divine but if u look it as sensual &orgy then it is vulgar.
he said Devine prostitutes,,,,typical britsch Brick
Absolutely 😏
Valli !!! Valli !!!! you can't sing! your a beautiful dancer but you just killed a JAVALI !!