Bought 3 Arrmas. All 3 were V3, BLX. TYPHON, BIG ROCK, SENTON. NO cogging issues with Typon or Big Rock. Senton cogged badly. If stopped on hill, trying then to start up hill, esc would shut down. I called store where I bought it, they said it's normal. I thought, if normal, why doesn't Typon /Big Rock shut down? I knew something was up.. Simple Fix: I found both Typon/Big Rock pinion were 15T. Senton was 20T. Installed 15T on Senton, problem was fixed. That's all it was. So if cogging is so bad, gear down a little. I enjoy your channel, (like /subscribed) because it's like this video, I thought sensored was THE WAY TO GO. I LEARNED, not always. Thanks
Another advantage (or dis-advantage depending on your situation) is the zero RPM cogging under extreme load. The reason I say this is because if you have something bind in your drivetrain (for example like happened to me is a grub screw comes loose on your pinion and gets trapped on the motor mount on a Arrma Typhon) less damage can happen to the car compared to a sensored system that may run even though it is loaded down due to the binding in the drive train.
The Main advantage that sensored has over sensorless - the cogging at low RPM, can be overcome with a few different methods to glean the back-emf information from the windings alone. One promising example is High-Frequency Injection (HFI), and the startup sequence can be altered from punching at 1 phase at a time, to full on sinewave 3-phase commutation with some sort of ramp-up time. Sure it might be inefficient to run it in these states but the intent is to kick it into the back-emf-sensing realm of the esc as strongly as possible.
Not always. Try sensored hobbywing 2800K on the track or something smaller in 1/10 onroads. Motors are more accurate. Also there you can feel better connection with the driver. Does not exists only bash or crawling :-) There are also hybrid motors which are running in sensored mode on low speed and then switch to sensorless in higher speeds :-)
I can now compare it after some tests. In indoor 1/10 buggy was a changed behavior without sensored cable just a little bit. 1/10 onroad, there is still need for me to have sensored for precious curves and also for accurate breaks, then accelerate in for example with my xray X-1 formula and Hobbywing 21,5T But i tested in 1/8 Serpent SRX8e PRO with XR8 ESC and hobbywing 2600K(suited for onroad but im using it in buggy) and there was no difference in sensored/sensorless mode on the dusty dirt track. So it is up to everyone. Im just writted my feelings from the own tests. Im just hobby driver. The more important hardware for me is a good fast radio or strong and fast servo. Can live without sensors on 1/8 scale Buggy/Truggy :-) I have not any crawlers, but when i have some, i will definitely want there sensored combo in all scales of the truck. Because there are so slow speed requires precious handling.
Interesting. I know that you can adjust the timing on the motor and also you can program the ESC for the motor timing. Could you share with us how to program the ESC to have variable timing and if this is with just specific ESCs? Any information you can share would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for the video.
Say I go "sensorless", Can you get the RPM from the ESC without a sensor? i.e the ESC is sending pulses at a particular rate to the motor.... Perhaps it depends upon what ESC is in use? Whether it supports bi-directional dShot?
Thanks for this video, it's cleaned a grey area of opinions for me. Question. Not all my Boats are bolistic. I have some that are to be slow. (Tug boats/warships). How can i get brushless to go slow enough for tugs. Its not quite right to see the Rotterdam and Imara planing. Is there any way i can go brushless in these ships or am i stook with brushed motors. Thanks for any help.
For the most part there is many great and informative videos on this channel however I find this one a little bit deceiving and biased, it's not so much the facts arent rrue per se but rather incomplete or heavily weighted towards sensorless motors. Firstly there is esc's that operate in sensorless mode after initial sensored operation at higher rpms giving the best of both worlds. The weight thing is mute point as afew extra grams on an rc car ranging from a few kg to 20kg is so negligible it doesnt matter. The point about reliability although somewhat true is also irrelevant because the motor can still operate in the supposed 'better' sensorless mode regardless. The size issue may be a concern for some builds but in most case ways around this issue are often discovered and more rc's will have no issue due to sensorelss motors being a little longer than those that do. As motor size increases and rc scale increases this also becomes less and less ofa factor and more so the size constraints come from those trying to fit a bigger larger scale motor than was intended by design. Price ofc is always a concern for some but that goes for anything, but chances are if you are dropping thousands on an rc car and fancy radio gear and are into such details as sensored, kv ratings and amps then it mostly like is a hobby that you are passionate and throw a lot of money at. The biggest point though I repeat is that escs can switch from sensored to sensorelss during operation so no compromises are being made performance wise but gains are made at startup.
I understand your perspective, but I believe these comments are heavily biased towards RC cars, rather than considering other RC vehicles like EDF jets or airplanes. The purpose of the video is to highlight the specific aspects of sensorless motors that make them more appealing. Here’s a link to a video about sensored motors, which focuses specifically on RC cars: ruclips.net/video/WqqsNt_v098/видео.html
Bought 3 Arrmas. All 3 were V3, BLX.
TYPHON, BIG ROCK, SENTON.
NO cogging issues with Typon or Big Rock.
Senton cogged badly. If stopped on hill, trying then to start up hill, esc would shut down.
I called store where I bought it, they said it's normal. I thought, if normal, why doesn't Typon /Big Rock shut down?
I knew something was up..
Simple Fix: I found both Typon/Big Rock pinion were 15T. Senton was 20T.
Installed 15T on Senton, problem was fixed. That's all it was. So if cogging is so bad, gear down a little.
I enjoy your channel, (like /subscribed) because it's like this video, I thought sensored was THE WAY TO GO. I LEARNED, not always.
Thanks
Thanks for the comment Tiger one!
1:51 This!!!!!
👍🤭😂 Love this moment, perfect timing)
Strange how this happened, timing worked out though 😂
Another advantage (or dis-advantage depending on your situation) is the zero RPM cogging under extreme load. The reason I say this is because if you have something bind in your drivetrain (for example like happened to me is a grub screw comes loose on your pinion and gets trapped on the motor mount on a Arrma Typhon) less damage can happen to the car compared to a sensored system that may run even though it is loaded down due to the binding in the drive train.
Interesting perspective Adam.
The Main advantage that sensored has over sensorless - the cogging at low RPM, can be overcome with a few different methods to glean the back-emf information from the windings alone. One promising example is High-Frequency Injection (HFI), and the startup sequence can be altered from punching at 1 phase at a time, to full on sinewave 3-phase commutation with some sort of ramp-up time. Sure it might be inefficient to run it in these states but the intent is to kick it into the back-emf-sensing realm of the esc as strongly as possible.
Wow @1:53. 10/10 very subtle
You found it!
Very well explained! As usual, timing is everything 😁✌️
Great to hear! Thanks for the comment!
In short, if you are running a crawler or something else that needs a lot of slow, low end control, go sensored. Anything else, go sensorless.
Also, AM32 loaded ESC can run sensorless motor on crawlers!
Not always. Try sensored hobbywing 2800K on the track or something smaller in 1/10 onroads. Motors are more accurate. Also there you can feel better connection with the driver. Does not exists only bash or crawling :-) There are also hybrid motors which are running in sensored mode on low speed and then switch to sensorless in higher speeds :-)
I can now compare it after some tests. In indoor 1/10 buggy was a changed behavior without sensored cable just a little bit. 1/10 onroad, there is still need for me to have sensored for precious curves and also for accurate breaks, then accelerate in for example with my xray X-1 formula and Hobbywing 21,5T
But i tested in 1/8 Serpent SRX8e PRO with XR8 ESC and hobbywing 2600K(suited for onroad but im using it in buggy) and there was no difference in sensored/sensorless mode on the dusty dirt track. So it is up to everyone. Im just writted my feelings from the own tests. Im just hobby driver. The more important hardware for me is a good fast radio or strong and fast servo. Can live without sensors on 1/8 scale Buggy/Truggy :-) I have not any crawlers, but when i have some, i will definitely want there sensored combo in all scales of the truck. Because there are so slow speed requires precious handling.
Even Doug DeMuro made an appearance in your video.
Congrats on that 😅
No way! 😂
Interesting. I know that you can adjust the timing on the motor and also you can program the ESC for the motor timing. Could you share with us how to program the ESC to have variable timing and if this is with just specific ESCs? Any information you can share would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for the video.
Say I go "sensorless", Can you get the RPM from the ESC without a sensor? i.e the ESC is sending pulses at a particular rate to the motor....
Perhaps it depends upon what ESC is in use? Whether it supports bi-directional dShot?
Getting Rpm from the esc is not determined by sensored vs sensorless.
Does changing the spur and pion gear affect the internal pion gear
Are you referring to the differential gearing? No it does not effect this.
Great explanation once again. Thanks
Glad you liked it!
I'm pretty senseless, but this video makes sense to me. 😉
Thanks for this video, it's cleaned a grey area of opinions for me.
Question.
Not all my Boats are bolistic. I have some that are to be slow. (Tug boats/warships). How can i get brushless to go slow enough for tugs.
Its not quite right to see the Rotterdam and Imara planing.
Is there any way i can go brushless in these ships or am i stook with brushed motors. Thanks for any help.
Yes, go for a low Kv larger Outrunner style motor. These motors will rotate at very slow speeds and do not need to be sensored either.
Always a wealth of info thanks
You bet
Why do mod class racers all run sensored motors?
👍👍
For the most part there is many great and informative videos on this channel however I find this one a little bit deceiving and biased, it's not so much the facts arent rrue per se but rather incomplete or heavily weighted towards sensorless motors. Firstly there is esc's that operate in sensorless mode after initial sensored operation at higher rpms giving the best of both worlds. The weight thing is mute point as afew extra grams on an rc car ranging from a few kg to 20kg is so negligible it doesnt matter. The point about reliability although somewhat true is also irrelevant because the motor can still operate in the supposed 'better' sensorless mode regardless. The size issue may be a concern for some builds but in most case ways around this issue are often discovered and more rc's will have no issue due to sensorelss motors being a little longer than those that do. As motor size increases and rc scale increases this also becomes less and less ofa factor and more so the size constraints come from those trying to fit a bigger larger scale motor than was intended by design. Price ofc is always a concern for some but that goes for anything, but chances are if you are dropping thousands on an rc car and fancy radio gear and are into such details as sensored, kv ratings and amps then it mostly like is a hobby that you are passionate and throw a lot of money at. The biggest point though I repeat is that escs can switch from sensored to sensorelss during operation so no compromises are being made performance wise but gains are made at startup.
I understand your perspective, but I believe these comments are heavily biased towards RC cars, rather than considering other RC vehicles like EDF jets or airplanes.
The purpose of the video is to highlight the specific aspects of sensorless motors that make them more appealing. Here’s a link to a video about sensored motors, which focuses specifically on RC cars: ruclips.net/video/WqqsNt_v098/видео.html
1st!!!!
1st. 🤣🤣🤣