No matter how deeply I contemplate God's need for evil, and or the suffering of any humans, there is absolutely no justifying the way humans have been tortured, suffered and then died, in the most inhumane examples one can think of. Absolutely no redemptive quality what so ever!!!!!!!!!! Just plain man's inhumanity to man, as it always has been!!!
@yousuf nairang Religious experts claim animals won't see heaven. Which means their suffering and pain is meaningless and worthless. Animals are more noble than humans in many ways.
The answer is obvious: God is responsible by virtue of his omniscience and omnipotence. To deny his responsibility is to deny his omniscience. If God is responsible for the creation of everything, then it follows that he is responsible for its consequences as foreseen through his omniscience. There can be no exception, even for free will. If God were to deny himself omniscience with respect to people's future actions, then he would necessarily be in a state of increasing ignorance as the actions of people are going to chaotically impact the future state of the universe down to the quantum level. In fact, the very moment the first conscious person of free will came into being, a bubble / rift in God's omniscience would become manifest, centered around that person, chaotically expanding outward at rougly the speed of light. God would necessarily be increasingly ignorant of future events. If this is the type of experiment that God chooses to carry out, then it is somewhat analogous to putting rats in a cage with limited resources and numerous diseases and parasites, fully aware of the potential for evil that such a scenario presents. God essentially set the stage for evil. Fortunately I do not believe in God.
there is already a disproov for God: B. A. Rehl: www.quora.com/profile/B-A-Rehl - he is able to disproof life after death and God. Further more he is implying that he solved consciousness.
God is responsible for everything but He isn't accountable for our choices, but only accountable for His choice in creating us. Being a just and righteous God as part of His accountability, He has to destroy those elements that choose evil and without repentance over Him who is good. It pains Him to do so, because every soul is important to God, and He wants everyone to choose Him. People have the freewill to choose that which is good, over that which is evil. We're all accountable for the choices that we make, and when we choose to believe in Him/His Son as our Good Lord and Savior and accept His perfect payment on the cross for all our imperfect evil sins we are then accounted as righteous and no longer as evil sinners. We are the righteousness of God within Christ Jesus. When God finally wipes out the earth and all the evil in it, and begins it a new He saves all those that accepted Him. The rest go where they chose.
Throughout history, there have been thousands of theologians and they all have different opinions, but I will tell you one thing not one of them came to the conclusion that (God is responsible for evil).
TehNetherlands - "Fortunately I do not believe in God" As do many of your fellow Dutchman. The Netherlands is ćurrently the world's largest producer & supplier of kiddie porn. Fact. Thanks God there will be less of you in the coming decades.
I seem to remember a verse stating that God created everything, nothing exists that God did not create. So, if evil exists then God created it. Religions can not exist without an enemy. To create a religion you need to create an enemy so that religion all of sudden has a purpose. God being an all knowing god knows everything and knew what would happen and created it anyway. When something bad happens we blame the devil. When something happens and we can't explain it we say God works in mysterious ways. Satan, was supposed to be God right hand man. God gave man free wil. Which I suspect that Satan didn't have free will. How could Satan choose to rebel and the third of all the Angel chose to follow Satan and rebel. No free will? Really? Remember, God created "everything", nothing can exist that God did not create. If evil exists then God created it
God himself has two sides like a coin, which is one but has two sides, you see in this world everything has two sides like magnets, electricity, computer, etc...etc... God is energy so has to have 2-sides to complete the circuit ? This life that we are living now is GOD'S negative side, God's positive side will be seen by soul only, that's is hereafter were body will not be there and only pure eternal soul and heavenly life !!!!
Hey could someone do me a huge favor please,? Could someone please copy and paste this comment and send it to my email please, I'm using a Moto 6E and I cannot use this function on this phone. I want to use the comment in a debate with a priest. It's pretty well written and it's almost exactly with what I was thinking about. I really would appreciate that please. I'll send my email if you can Thank you.
Epicurus sublimely exposed the fallacy of an omnibenevolent God, when he challenged its logical existence by saying; Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
This form of the objection of evil (known as the logical version) has been widely agreed to have failed centuries ago in the philosophical community, according to atheist and Theist philosophers alike. It is no longer used in the contemporary academic debate. If you would like a thorough response to all the versions of the objection of evil then I would highly recommend you read William Lane Craig's many writings on the topic, you can find many articles on his website "Reasonable Faith".
@@nissimhadar It's literally been one of the most discussed and debated quotes in the history of western philosophy, so much so there is an entire branch of philosophy dedicated wholly to this issue, Theodicy.
@Flower Bee you still need to learn a lot, my friend. The interference of God in the world doesnt have anything to do with free will, just like if I help you when you are suffering and need help that doesnt damage your free will in any way. Its just mercy, wich god doenst have, either because he doesnt care or because he doesnt exist.
@@Graewulfe I think what it means is that evil exists, because there's no god around to prevent it or because there's a god that permits it and that god is not compatible with the caring god of the certain popular religions.
there is already a disproov for God: B. A. Rehl: www.quora.com/profile/B-A-Rehl - he is able to disproof life after death and God. Further more he is implying that he solved consciousness.
"There are two options, either god doesn't exist, or he exists but does not interfere with this world or care about it that much." Why do you limit to those 2 options? 1) "God" is not a Male, it's not limited to a gender. 2) God could be a female. 3) Break past the organized religious limits and expand your understanding. God is a singular word but God but that's an error in translation. 4) God is an E.T. from another planet. 5) We have intelligent design, you can see it all around you, but don't limit your understanding to Christian lies and misunderstandings. 6) Why do you think "God" doesn't care about the planet? I see "The Gods" answering all of us all the time..with what we ask for. The challenge is..most people are focused on lack and been taught that God is mean and punishing...and that you might go to Hell or Heaven once you're done here. All of that is completely nonsense. We do not R.I.P.. We continue on. "God" is expanding and so are we.
How long will it take victims to recover from their pain, suffering and grief when the ultimate justice is applied seeing the criminals in great pain and humiliation while they get rewarded by God?
@@mazen1010 The ultimate Oligarchy Bait-and-Switch. Let us enslave you, humiliate, degrade, devalue your lives because YOU WILL BE REWARDED - when you DIE! Yeah, that sure is an incentive... Religion is ALWAYS a scam, it begins with unprovable assertions and demands you believe, regardless of the logical inconsistencies. There may well BE an entity that deserves the title "God." But he/she/it is NONE of these deities the world offers me. Ask Neil DeGrasse Tyson to define a "God." (Seriously. I would like a group for atheists headed by scientifically trained "clergy." Services are science education classes and seminars, good works and social outreach as any religious organization would do.)
@max marrero Where does Rom 9:20-21 talk about the eternal torment? Rom 9:20 "But, my friend, I ask, “Who do you think you are to question God? Does the clay have the right to ask the potter why he shaped it the way he did? 21 Doesn't a potter have the right to make a fancy bowl and a plain bowl out of the same lump of clay?” Even the Catholic Church has abolished the non-biblical teaching of eternal torment... most evangelical Christians don't teach the literal hell...
Firstly, God is one but he himself has two sides, like a coin that is one, but with two sides i.e head & tail. This is clearly evident from the fact that he himself created Hell & Heaven so he has two sides period !! Secondly, he favours free will that is why he told Adam and Eve not to eat from that evil tree, which lead us to this world of suffering, what it implies is that this world is God's negative side of life, the positive side of God, will be shown to us hereafter, because hereafter life is different form of life which only exist in pure clean eternal heavenly life of pure clean positive side of God's other side energy. If you can call me then I can be able to explain far far better to make you understand !!! Faiyaz
Robert Kuhn, you’re the best. I’m in exactly the same space you are in….everything you say resonates with me. I’ve been living in severe pain for 16 yrs….im so grateful for your videos.
Yes, there are many other options and an infinite number of opinions. But there is only one Truth. Absolute Truth. And it is that same Truth that science, philosophy, and religion are ALL ideally seeking. And when they find IT, science, philosophy, and religion will be ONE. So, IT'S VERY OBVIOUS THAT ABSOLUTE TRUTH IS A STRANGER TO ALL THREE DISCIPLINES, is it not? "Is God responsible for evil?" I have the comprehensive answer to this question if you have the desire to know. And to begin with, consider this: How can you know if God is responsible for evil until you know exactly WHAT God IS? Until you know exactly what EVIL is? My book gives God's answers to all of these questions; not man-made presumptions. And my RUclips channel gives an introduction to this information as well as a bonus: The answer to the coronavirus. Just a "click" away....(I don't receive RUclips comments notifications, but those who seek will find that it is easy to find out how to contact me,)
I have complete confidence in someone that contradicts themselves twice in one paragraph lol. "Absolute truth is a stranger to religion" - "I have God's comprehensive answer" - "My presumptions are not man made"? Hmm maybe I agree with that, a charlatan isn't much of a man..
Mr. Zimmerman, suffering is not a mathematical equality that can be reduced to zero by bringing all its positive and negative terms to the same side. And the idea that a child who is abused, tortured or murdered will find the experience valuable or redeeming in the "afterlife" and that this would somehow exculpate the supposed god persona from having allowed the evil act to happen in the first place is not a "pious hope." It is, rather, an epitome of the moral and intellectual bankruptcy of a vapid mind, bent on selfishly defending an unsustainable premise at ANY cost, just because it FEELS comfortable. It doesn't take a genius to follow the breadcrumbs to an understanding that this kind of apologetics not only admits, but actually encourages and enables evil. It's no wonder that so many serial killers rotting away in jail seriously believe that Jesus loves them. The interviewer didn't go NEARLY hard enough on this intellectual and moral coward, and some of the others who came after...
I didn't like this idea either and the argument was faulty. I admire your passion. In philosophy, we attack the improved version of the argument only. I'm not a philosopher. We don't profit so to speak from errors of form. There has been a lot of problems throughout history with the notions of heaven and hell and the afterlife. The problem is in the assumption of an afterlife. There is a lot more than morality, overcoming negative reciprocity, the tendency to meet bad with worse is also involved. Without God we become what we fear, what we hate, what we avoid. www.audible.com/pd/Heaven-and-Hell-Audiobook/1797101021?source_code=AUDORWS0718179KY7
there is already a disproov for God: B. A. Rehl: www.quora.com/profile/B-A-Rehl - he is able to disproof life after death and God. Further more he is implying that he solved consciousness.
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” - Epicurus (341-270 BC)
Any constraint upon superlatives negate their meaning. God is Being. What is misused freedom except the choice to not be? This privation is what we call evil, or recognize incrementally as chaos and suffering. "Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you." (Exodus 3) "Wilt thou set thine eyes upon that which is not?" (Proverbs 23) "Those who contended with You shall be as nothing, as a nonexistent thing." (Isaiah 41) "I Am the vine, ye are the branches...apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15)
@@bipolarbear9917 One need not despise nor dismiss true reflections of God from different traditions. Comparative religion is not a question of pick & choose, but rather one of degrees of recognition.
I understand your sincere sentiment, but the notion of "compensation" places the cart before the horse. It is we who consume God and it is of the Lord's mercies that we are not consumed.
The story of Genie comes to mind when I ponder on this particular topic. The senseless of her suffering… and the suffering of all sentient beings in the world … has no redemptive value. It’s hard to keep faith in a loving caring God understanding evil like that exists in the world. The only justifiable conclusion I have come to is the belief we are in some computer simulation and the simulator literally treats any and every conceivable object and outcome neutrally, good or bad or for better or worse. Ultimately this puts greater responsibility on each of us to make the world a better place for ourselves.
We deal with and grow from our struggles, our challenges, not evil. The struggles and challenges are a tool for evolving. There is nothing evil about them. Moreover, there is not good and evil, there is wisdom and ignorance. God is all things. I am peace, and I am the struggle. I am the wind, and I am the pollen carried in the wind. I am the victor, and I am the vanquished. There is nothing that God is not. God is the infinite breadth of every experience. Behold, the kingdom of heaven is before you.
This is the logic that I see here: "If it sounds too good to be true it must be false. I'll rather bet on guilt, shame and retribution. Let me stick to a self-defeating behavior and laugh cynically at hope so I'm not disappointed further. I can't be more disappointed if I'm already are...".
@@ServeWithIntegrity I see no logic used in your response to the original post. The "god works in mysterious ways" statement is often used to explain, dismiss, and justify divine behavior that in normal humans would be considered devoid of compassion, empathy, and justice. Your comment doesn't address any of that and further brings up its own unrelated and illogical position.
there is already a disproov for God: B. A. Rehl: www.quora.com/profile/B-A-Rehl - he is able to disproof life after death and God. Further more he is implying that he solved consciousness.
What I don't understand is that they say we die because of sin. The wages of sin are death. So if Jesus died to take away are sins then why are we still dying.?
In Christianity, afterlife can't be an answer to earthly suffering: many people go to hell, which involves eternal suffering, while animals don't have an afterlife at all. To answer the question in the title of the video: "I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I, the Lord, do all these things" (Isaiah 45:7).
true, but the idea that they shouldn't try to stop escalating vengeance that gathers and then persists across generations is also terrible. However, preventing them from finding a reasonably happy place in the world because of the effects of whatever was done to them with tons of lies that just make it good for the person that hurt them is also horrific. It might be that as other means of developing equity fail that the ultimate dependence on religious faith in divine retribution can become useful - but it's also a means to allow people to take enjoyment in persisting or causing disease, for example, saying that it's up to god. Some people actually say that and they love it when people get diseases and suffer the consequences of diseases. Many people even ask us to feel lifted and happy to hear of the misfortune of others.
Imagine living in paradise for eternity without knowing why you are there. Adam and Eve (according to the Quranic version) acted like spoiled children because they had no experience with the real life.
In the early 1980's, Australian philosopher and atheist J.L. Mackie wrote, “Since this defense is formally possible, and its principle involves no real abandonment of our ordinary view of the opposition between good and evil, we can concede that the problem of evil does not, after all, show that the central doctrines of theism are logically inconsistent with one another.”
Yes God does all good and bad with us for his own fun. Just like we can't eat delicacies without burning them and hurting them, we hurt them for our own fun n joy, we behave like this because we have the same tendencies which God has in him, because we are His part and parcel we also have same tendencies but very minute in quantity,but qualities are same as He has in Him
Without having watched it, the answer to the title is: yes, of course, at least if that entity is truly all-powerful, all-knowing, and absolute good, since then there is no excuse that evil exist. And no, Free Will is not such an excuse.
Your constraints upon superlatives negate their meaning. God is Being. What is misused freedom except the choice to not be? This privation is what we call evil, or recognize incrementally as chaos and suffering. "Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you." (Exodus 3) "Wilt thou set thine eyes upon that which is not?" (Proverbs 23) "Those who contended with You shall be as nothing, as a nonexistent thing." (Isaiah 41) "I Am the vine, ye are the branches...apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15)
"Is God Responsible for Evil?" Yes. Lots of apologists in the video. "what God wants and what God makes possible...." Um...to believe in God means that you must accept the omniscience of God which means that He knows the outcome even before He acts. Therefore, God is either evil since He chose to create Lucifer and then when Lucifer and 1/3 of the Angels went against God He then cast them down to Earth. Of all the places in the universe, let's do Earth. Then, allow temptation to happen for the newly created beings which then leads to many millennia of pain and suffering followed by resurrection, judgement, and then the eternal and forever soul death of billions of people because they didn't accept God into their heart based on no physical evidence for billions of people but faith alone. If God did exist then we are talking about a tiny sliver of the entirety of all humans that ever existed that had first hand experience. Everyone else has to base belief on blind faith. Great job. Everyone give God a standing ovation for implementing a plan with billions of casualties on top of the already millions or billions of angels lost along with Lucifer. The other option is that there is another god higher than God and God is just following a script and is lacks omniscience and omnipotence. Oh, I guess lastly he could be like the D&D alignment called Chaotic Neutral. I have no fear of standing in front of God at my judgement and asking Him, 'What were you thinking?'.
Your last line made me laugh, I like the sentiment. I have asked God many questions, often not politely. I love D&D. I often think of it as an analogy for this world. God is the DM. I've DMed many games, and my goal is always to challenge the players to their limits. Sometimes they die, but it has to be that hard, because what I most hope for is their glory, and for them to know they earned it.
there can be no free will without evil evil was injected into human reality by God via his creation the devil so in an odd sense the devil is doing Gods bidding the whole purpose is to put us in a situation where we know both evil and good so we can choose and that is where you realise that most of the evil we know comes to our reality through mankind by choice
It’s amazing how religious belief (aka superstition) can destroy the ability to critical and rationel thinking, and replace it with mental gymnastics beyond the reasonable.
GOD is the ONE WHO is Responsible for All HIS Created Beings both Good and Evil.HE knows what is Good for Those Who are Good and also HE knows what is Good for Those Who are Evil BEING a GOOD GOD the CREATOR.
@@Brian.001 From the Christian pov, the worldview is this. There is war in heaven. Satan is banished.Human has control of earth. He hands it over to Satan through sin. God will take back control by restoring his people through Jesus and sending Satan to hell. Until then (regarding activities on earth), God will either initiate or prevent an occurrence, or let something happen for his own purpose. Eg. The brothers of Joseph sell him as slave to Egypt with evil intent but God uses it for good in the end. Now if you met Joseph as a slave , you'd ask why God let that happen , but that would be because you don't know what he is trying to ACHIEVE. Cancer is not good but we don't know what he is trying to achieve. He also says death is not the end so it's unreasonable to give a proper verdict.
@@nathanforrest3483 Jesus died and rose again. I guess now I'll have to prove the bible is true. There are many channels online if you really want to know more regarding that. Eg. RC. Sproul. In the end , you'd still need faith but ull get answers to the most popular cliche questions people rinse and repeat all the time.
@@User-jr7vf, yeah *some* versions. Isaiah 45:7 I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things. _NIV_ It is clear that the evil in the KJV is natural misfortune, not moral evil.
@@User-jr7vf Sorry but no he doesn't. God is Good and affirms it. God affirms he created evil. Evil is that which opposes good. God created the ability for that which has the ability to oppose him. But he didn't cause the free agent to oppose him.
"I think that question must be answered by theologians before we can make any forward progress"----- Respectfully, should not you answer that question before you can make progress? Why would God allow you to continue to do evil? I am assuming of course, that your are neither a saint, nor willing to suffer your own destruction to prevent your complicity in the furtherance of evil.
Why is slavery and genocide evil? You must be pulling from a standard of good to make such a claim. What is your standard of morality to make such a claim? Otherwise it’s just your opinion that slavery and genocide are evil, because the people who commit them believe it’s good. It’s like your stealing from God’s attributes to make a claim against God
I must say I love your questions. Yes I have thought that too, neccesary experience to build caracter. My humble thoughts are, maybe the thing is that we need to take a position faced with evil? To recognize the beast when you see it. I am convinced that we are not just bodies governed by basic instincts. We have them, but there is more to us than that. When we die, our spirit rise like a released prisoner, and you go to another dimension where you meet other "released prisoners". I have experienced that, so that is what I must believe in. So in a way I think life must be neccesary for our spirit to be able to develop, to acknowledge itself.
"the most coherent answer regarding the problem of evil" ---- Suggesting a rational explanation for the irrational is by definition problematic. Evil is never required.
They all have the same self-satisfied, baby like features of someone that has never made a responsible, adult decision to direct their lives. Don't expect too much from them.
Firstly, God is one but he himself has two sides, like a coin that is one, but with two sides i.e head & tail. This is clearly evident from the fact that he himself created Hell & Heaven so he has two sides period !! Secondly, he favours free will that is why he told Adam and Eve not to eat from that evil tree, which lead us to this world of suffering, what it implies is that this world is God's negative side of life, the positive side of God, will be shown to us hereafter, because hereafter life is different form of life which only exist in pure clean eternal heavenly life of pure clean positive side of God's other side energy. If you can call me then I can be able to explain far far better to make you understand !!! Faiyaz Khan ==> Mobile No : +971522073093
Faiyaz Khan Prometheus loved man more then the Olympians, who had banished most of his family to Tartarus. So when Zeus decreed that man must present a portion of each animal they scarified to the gods Prometheus decided to trick Zeus. He created two piles, one with the bones wrapped in juicy fat, the other with the good meat hidden in the hide. He then bade Zeus to pick. Zeus picked the bones. Since he had given his word Zeus had to accept that as his share for future sacrafices. In his anger over the trick he took fire away from man. However, Prometheus lit a torch from the sun and brought it back again to man. Zeus was enraged that man again had fire. He decided to inflict a terrable punishment on both man and Prometheus. It’s sad but true.
Is inflicting pain on a baby evil? From the perspective of the child, that's always true. However, it's not always so. When parents take their children to the doctor for their shots, it's painful and incomprehensible for the child, but the parent knows better. That's how I explain evil in the world.
Regarding Isaiah 45----- “I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.” Isaiah is making a comparison between light & dark and good & evil--- between that which is and that which is not. Philosophically this indicates a contingent state of potential. The presence of light posits the potential of darkness but not a necessity of darkness. The context in which Isaiah is writing is in point a logical refutation against philosophical dualism. Dualism is a common idea in many religions---- that there are two equal and opposing gods of good and evil. Isaiah categorically rejects this notion in this passage as it is nestled between the statements "I Am the Lord, and there is none else" [and] "I the Lord do all these things." God is "Being" itself---- "I Am That I Am" (Exodus 3) and "in Him we live, and move, and have our being" (Acts 17). Were one to be completely deprived of God, one would not exist--- "Those who war against You shall be as nothing, as a nonexistent thing" (Isaiah 41). Thus, privation of being by degrees or incrementally is what one calls evil and experiences as suffering. Thus, God defines evil. Just as light defines its absence as darkness, that which is defines that which is not. God as Existence itself thus creates or defines the potential of non-existence, or evil. One cannot deprive, misuse, pervert, negate, etc. lest there be some "thing" from which to detract, nor can one detract from that something except its first exists. The thief cannot steal except he have hands and there be some good to steal, nor the liar pervert truth except there be truth and he have a mouth. Thus, "Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above" (John 19). This statement neither requires one to do evil nor excuses it. Rather it states quite simply that one could do neither good nor evil without first existing. "For apart from Me you are able to do nothing" (John 15).
@@andreasplosky8516 "You need to exist to be responsible for something"---- As an ex-christian who knows all of it you must be aware that the "God of the Bible" is Existence itself. It is logically incoherent to posit the non-existence of Existence.
@@andreasplosky8516 Existence simply is. One may argue regarding the nature or attributes of existence, but existence is and is independent of our definitions and beliefs.
I'd go with solution 4. A necessity for balance. There can not be good without evil. If there was one without the other, what would there to be in comparison? Nothing. Good, opposite of evil, one cannot exist without the other
I seriously don’t buy any of the “evil is necessary” arguments, at least none of the ones I have heard, except for the no evolution without struggle argument.
Evil is NEVER necessary. For evil is nothing in itself, but rather a privation of the good. Freedom to will the good and to act upon that will is not a privation, but rather an expression of the good. Evil results in an enslaved will unable and unwilling to act upon the good. This is evident in our daily experience, for we struggle to do the good with great effort, yet our failures to will and to do the good remain effortless and come to naught.
finally if there is any god, he would never leave us in this mess of thinking in a dilemma about his existence and the evil issue, trying to figure out something!!!
"if there is any god, he would never leave us in this mess of thinking in a dilemma"----- Do you also reject geometry because it is difficult for some to understand?
Actually, I see it just the opposite. Men tend to cling to old ideas and are reluctant to change. If Jesus Christ were to address us today and correct our false understandings and doctrines, would the Christian churches be willing to change their doctrines? NO, I can say with full confidence. Because, the event I have just described has indeed transpired in recent history. So: "Is God responsible for evil?" I have the comprehensive answer to this question if you have the desire to know. And to begin with, consider this: How can you know if God is responsible for evil until you know exactly WHAT God IS? Until you know exactly what EVIL is? My book gives God's answers to all of these questions; not man-made presumptions. And my RUclips channel gives an introduction to this information as well as a bonus: The answer to the coronavirus. Just a "click" away....(I don't receive RUclips comments notifications, but those who seek will find that it is easy to find out how to contact me,)
It is the nature of Being to give of Itself-- to Love. Love is a creative act. It entails work, but not of necessity suffering. However, to Love in the void that evil is, to defeat evil with good, is excruciating for it is giving to fill an endless vacuum. Christ on the Cross is not simply an example, but the very person of God for God is Love. God continually gives even to the point of death and beyond death to the point of hell. We consume God, for it is of the Lord's mercies that we are not consumed.
Is this an axiom of reality? If so then you are a prophet. If you are not a prophet then can you do more than state things that sound cool to a stoner who wants followers? If not then I am reminded about a thing regarding bearing false witness - which would suggest you don't believe in god in which case, why are you stating facts that only have meaning if god exists?
Yes, this is junk information about God coming mostly from the corrupted old scriptures. God had sent tens of thousands of messages to earth, but the evil part of humans has corrupted them. Quran is the last message to earth.
Regarding Isaiah 45----- “I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.” Isaiah is making a comparison between light & dark and good & evil--- between that which is and that which is not. Philosophically this indicates a contingent state of potential. The presence of light posits the potential of darkness but not a necessity of darkness. The context in which Isaiah is writing is in point a logical refutation against philosophical dualism. Dualism is a common idea in many religions---- that there are two equal and opposing gods of good and evil. Isaiah categorically rejects this notion in this passage as it is nestled between the statements "I Am the Lord, and there is none else" [and] "I the Lord do all these things." God is "Being" itself---- "I Am That I Am" (Exodus 3) and "in Him we live, and move, and have our being" (Acts 17). Were one to be completely deprived of God, one would not exist--- "Those who war against You shall be as nothing, as a nonexistent thing" (Isaiah 41). Thus, privation of being by degrees or incrementally is what one calls evil and experiences as suffering. Thus, God defines evil. Just as light defines its absence as darkness, that which is defines that which is not. God as Existence itself thus creates or defines the potential of non-existence, or evil. One cannot deprive, misuse, pervert, negate, etc. lest there be some "thing" from which to detract, nor can one detract from that something except its first exists. The thief cannot steal except he have hands and there be some good to steal, nor the liar pervert truth except there be truth and he have a mouth. Thus, "Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above" (John 19). This statement neither requires one to do evil nor excuses it. Rather it states quite simply that one could do neither good nor evil without first existing. "For apart from Me you are able to do nothing" (John 15).
If you believe in an omnipotent and omniscient God, then you have to believe that if there was a better way to do it, then it would be done that way. That's where Faith comes in. Faith is the whole smash. As far as the animals, we humans are above the animals. That doesn't mean we have to treat them as such. We can, and should, treat them with compassion. As to the amount of evil, no there doesn't have to be this much evil, man determines the level of evil in the world.
If you believe that an all powerful Creator has designed you. Then yes your God is solely responsible for evil. There's no way around it. Free Will means you have a choice of good or bad. But those choices were created for you. Pretty self explanatory.
The callousness with which these folks (sitting in their comfortable chairs and apologist jobs) discuss evil and redemption is shocking! Tell that to a child suffering due to evil. Is this position itself evil? Just imagine this argument - give us million dollars in this life...we will pay you lots and lots of money and infinite happiness and compensate you with "endless good" to you posthumously. Will anyone accept it? Amazing the guy can say that with a straight face. The posthumous promises, an ultimate con!
The story of Adam and Eve (the Quranic version) shows that without evil, fear, pain and suffering no one could tell who is good or bad. As for righteousness, mercy and kindness to show, there must be real dangers, real pain and real loss.
@Jermain Roberts We come to this world as helpless and ignorant babies. So, our maker has all the knowledge and wisdom. If you have something please tell me.
@Jermain Roberts There is no way of knowing who is God (other than that he is one and all-wise and all-powerful), or what God wants from us without God sending us a message. Unfortunately, our history is filled with evil self-proclaimed false prophets. So, no philosopher can provide any truth about God, other than that God is invisible and almighty. When God sends a messenger to the people he gives the messenger a group of supernatural miracles to prove their authenticity. Without these miracles to prove the truthfulness of the message, then the evil people will play with us. God has sent the people of earth tens of thousands of messages throughout history and the vast geography. Quran is the last message from God to earth.
Regarding Isaiah 45----- “I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.” Isaiah is making a comparison between light & dark and good & evil--- between that which is and that which is not. Philosophically this indicates a contingent state of potential. The presence of light posits the potential of darkness but not a necessity of darkness. The context in which Isaiah is writing is in point a logical refutation against philosophical dualism. Dualism is a common idea in many religions---- that there are two equal and opposing gods of good and evil. Isaiah categorically rejects this notion in this passage as it is nestled between the statements "I Am the Lord, and there is none else" [and] "I the Lord do all these things." God is "Being" itself---- "I Am That I Am" (Exodus 3) and "in Him we live, and move, and have our being" (Acts 17). Were one to be completely deprived of God, one would not exist--- "Those who war against You shall be as nothing, as a nonexistent thing" (Isaiah 41). Thus, privation of being by degrees or incrementally is what one calls evil and experiences as suffering. Thus, God defines evil. Just as light defines its absence as darkness, that which is defines that which is not. God as Existence itself thus creates or defines the potential of non-existence, or evil. One cannot deprive, misuse, pervert, negate, etc. lest there be some "thing" from which to detract, nor can one detract from that something except its first exists. The thief cannot steal except he have hands and there be some good to steal, nor the liar pervert truth except there be truth and he have a mouth. Thus, "Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above" (John 19). This statement neither requires one to do evil nor excuses it. Rather it states quite simply that one could do neither good nor evil without first existing. "For apart from Me you are able to do nothing" (John 15).
I really don't understand all this nonsense: if God is capable of creating an afterlife which compensates and even outweighs all evil in this life, then why isn't He capable of just skipping this life and create the circumstances as they exist in that afterlife? Let alone the question, why would an omnibenevolent, omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, unchanging God even need to create anything at all? Isn't He enough as He is, just by Himself? Does He need a creation, which would make Him imperfect I guess?
For me, the necessary requirement of an afterlife to make sense of the presence of evil is the strongest argument against God. If perfect existence in the heaven of the hereafter is possible then why didn't God just place us there in the first place...? If he couldn't then he is constrained and not omnipotent. If he has to allow free will to achieve his wants, then surely there must be the possibility of rebellion even in the paradise of heaven and what then...?
there is already a disproov for God: B. A. Rehl: www.quora.com/profile/B-A-Rehl - he is able to disproof life after death and God. Further more he is implying that he solved consciousness.
Question123 - not possible to prove or disprove the afterlife... unless you are dead... NDEs offer interesting glimpses though and often share striking similarities... again - it's not proof as the person hasn't died, but interesting nonetheless.
@@aeon6706you should read his theories - he claims to have it solved (including how our brain creates consciousness) - so who knows? Worth investigating, could be a paradigm shift that kills off religious beliefs.
@@sohaibzerguine5783 Yeah, sure... like the "fell power of the eye of Sauron," right? You've got some cheek trying to highlight the failures of a silly religious dogma by contrasting it with an even more ridiculous and toxic religious dogma. When will religious people understand that atheists aren't the LEAST bit interested in hearing about your "god?" If they are not laughing out loud when you try to convince them, they are just chuckling to themselves inside.
@@sohaibzerguine5783 If you are a Muslim, then you should present the answers from Quran. You shouldn't be pushing a nonsense like that book (it is not even written by Ali, it was written 400 years later). Shame on you!!!
Even though the opening credits show the Islam place of prayer (the mosque) no single reference was made to Islam. Satan, evilness, pain, suffering and fear are tools God has created to make the free willed creatures see and be able to understand righteousness, honesty, kindness and mercy. Otherwise, if there was no real evil, real loss or real pain all the good values will be meaningless.
That's how religion works - this is why slicing boys penises into two parts is still disgustingly acceptable in the UK and rewarded with large sums of money.
A child sits at an AI console in a no too distant future,. Bored he ask the computer to create "a World"..The computer asks him what beings should inhabit this world. The child says, make them a multitude of differentiated organic types that love to survive, reproduce and enjoy things. The computer then asks about how nutrition is obtained for the various sort of flora and fauna he has created. On a whim, the child laughs and tells the computer to "make them eat each other, make superior beings breed the inferiors just for eating, make sure they have emotions that know fear as well as love. Make sure they feel pain and horror when they are rendered apart by sharp teeth or tools of other inhabitants".. The computer asks if identical organic types can eat each other, Yes of course, says the child. The computer asks if they can simply eliminate other organics to get more resources of the inferiors.The child laughs and says "yes and make them ingenious about that aspect and call this act "Killing"" the computer finally asks, "what would you call this world"? the child responds wih glee "MeatWorld". The simulation is borne...The Child turns on the immersive reality device and begins to snack of whatever futuristic children eat. . the runtime of the simulation begin and the simulation focuses on s a pig squealing in fear and pain as it is bludgeoned to death by a host of bipeds, the last sound that the pig's auditory system tries to process from the Bipeds is "We thank God and this Great Earth for providing us this bounty....
Without God there could not be good or evil...at least not what we see as good or evil. For without God, we posit nature as "supreme". But nature is uncaring and so couldn't "care" about good or evil...there would be just "stuff that happens", some of which we like, some of which we don't. The bad things that we call "evil" only take on the connotation of evil if God exists. But then "good" also exists, and it is good as opposed to that which we just "prefer", again, because of God. On the whole there seems to be more good in the world than evil, i.e. on the whole better to exist and experience life than the alternative, which is non-existence and oblivion. That is, at least, what I'd think most people would subscribe to
The human psyche is "responsible" for evil and we wouldn't want it any other way. It is by contrast that we generate a reality image to begin with. Remove evil and you're left with nothing at all. Like Alan Watts pointed out; if you could go someplace for bliss, you'd eventually choose right where you are. It's the only vantage point that has any on offer.
Tomas Hull Well if god didn’t know that Adam and Eve would sin, then he is not omniscient. If he did know, then he is not benevolent. Christians can’t have it both ways. Furthermore, did god know that Lucifer would rebel and become Satan?
@@margaretbarrett6087 Let's say God can peer into the future but chooses selectively not to because He wants he children to do the right thing. Is that benevolent?
I like the analogy of the light, the light doesnt produce shadows, a shadow is the lack of light. The earth was given to men to rule and we gave the power to evil, the prince of this world. Where there is lack of light there is darkness, where there is lack of good there is evil, where there is evil there is suffering.
The inescapable and unjustified presumptions in the claim that "evil" logically negates the existence of God are, 1. That God is separated from our experience of evil and, 2. That God can choose whether or not to be. In both of these presumptions I find standard formal expressions of atheism to be almost uniquely devoid of grace and defined by outrage. Over six separate instances in an eighteen-year period I experienced the challenge of seven broken bones. These were extraordinary local evils to specific parts of my anatomy, but I assure you they didn't go unnoticed by the whole of me. Each instance of the "evil", however, showed me things about myself that ultimately did me good. When I have raised this issue with theologically trained friends they've tended to aver about the heresy of Pantheism. I, however, see pantheism less as a problem for understanding God and more as a challenge to a carefully constructed series of supports for human power structures and attempts to define God as people wish a dottering old grandfather to be.
„There can be no better world that contains beings like us“ - well, yes, there can! And we’re constantly creating such better and better worlds. I mean ok, eventually, it‘ll all collapse thanks to thermodynamics, and it’s not a linear progression - we faced many setbacks and we’re going through one right now (beginning in the 70s with the neoliberal counterrevolution); but we can achieve pretty amazing worlds with very little suffering. If god wasn’t capable of creating such a world, maybe we’re just smarter than your supposed god.
Regarding Isaiah 45----- Isaiah is making a comparison between light & dark and good & evil--- between that which is and that which is not. Philosophically this suggests a contingent state of potential. The presence of light posits the potential of darkness but not a necessity of darkness. The context in which Isaiah is writing is in point a logical refutation against philosophical "dualism". Dualism is a common idea in many religions---- that there are two equal and opposing gods of good and evil. Isaiah categorically rejects this notion in the passage you quote as it is nestled between the statements "I Am the Lord, and there is none else" [and] "I the Lord do all these things." God is "Being" itself---- "I Am That I Am" (Exodus 3) and "in Him we live, and move, and have our being" (Acts 17). Were one to be completely deprived of God, one would not exist--- "Those who war against You shall be as nothing, as a nonexistent thing" (Isaiah 41). Privation of being by degrees or incrementally is what one calls evil and suffering. Thus, God defines evil. Just as light defines its absence as darkness, that which is defines that which is not. God as Existence itself thus creates or defines the potential of non-existence, or evil. One cannot deprive, misuse, pervert, negate, etc. lest there be some "thing" from which to detract, nor can one detract from that something except its first exists. The thief cannot steal except he have hands and there be some good to steal, nor the liar pervert truth except there be truth and he have a mouth. Thus, "Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above" (John 19). This statement neither requires one to do evil nor excuses it. Rather it states quite simply that one could do neither good nor evil without first existing. "For apart from Me you are able to do nothing" (John 15).
You're on the right track, William. "Is God responsible for evil?" I have the comprehensive answer to this question if you have the desire to know. And to begin with, consider this: How can you know if God is responsible for evil until you know exactly WHAT God IS? Until you know exactly what EVIL is? My book gives God's answers to all of these questions; not man-made presumptions. And my RUclips channel gives an introduction to this information as well as a bonus: The answer to the coronavirus. Just a "click" away....(I don't receive RUclips comments notifications, but those who seek will find that it is easy to find out how to contact me,)
A humane almighty would absolutely never allow, for example... any child to get raped. There is simply no good excuse for such horrors which it doesn't matter if justice follows because it was ALLOWED to happen... perhaps, even to be blamed for... if an almighty were somehow to exist. I'm fortunate not to have never suffered any of the sorts... but as my very essence... as I would never want to ever become friends with a terrorist... I never want anything to do with an almighty that has ALLOWED the type of horrors as beyond the moderate type of evils.
I was told (by priests as a child) that animals are not excluded from gods grace. I was told they are living in a paradise, because they do not anticipate future. Well, today I'm not sure about that and the paradise view has faded. You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to figure this out - only Holmes Roston the third.
I took his advice and thought about his "cruziform creation" - whatever that may be - it works , obviously. In his senility Holmes does not realize he admits the cruelty of god's creation. I admire you stoic responses Robert - and your attempts to get "closer" to ...
I don´t know if theist-rationalists would tell a child while he or she is raped to death (that does happen) that such experience is a "test" and that there is a "compensation" at a wonderful afterlife. These kind of people are cowards and of a very low ethics. It si just unbelivable.
To get closer to truth on this perhaps biggest of all the big questions, I believe we must consider and discuss the following topics and their relationship to one another: that iniquity was first found in the otherwise perfect being, Lucifer; his aspiration to rule with (or in place of) God; the consequent rebellion against God of a third of the angels under Satan; why the two-tree test in the Garden of Eden; Satan's subtle access to the human mind (Eph 2:2); his rulership of this world (2Cor 4:4); that God is in the process of "bringing many children to Glory (Heb 2:10
Isaiah answers it pretty clearly:: 5 I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me. === 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things. You don't hear of this much from the pulpit.
Although I do not believe that there is an all mighty God, I do believe that there is purpose in evil. Without evil, there cannot be good. In a system where there is good and evil, the whole benefits and becomes stronger from the constant struggle.
As God says somewhere, "Your thoughts are not my tougthts" Or "When you were a child, you tought as a child now as adult you think as adult " In what point is our intelect, have we the capacity to judge objetibely the world?.
For the non-believer the problem of evil is not an academic issue. Their encounter with evil, whether in scripture, or current events, or personal experience is a source of deep-seated doubt which may, ironically, animate their conscience against truth. This is, after all, the reasoning for the phrase "the problem" of evil. It is indeed an insurmountable "problem" of conscience and obstacle to faith for the unbeliever. Philosophy may offer some insight, but "miserable comforters are ye all" (Job 16:2) is the reply to such theodicies most often heard. Rather, any treatise on the problem of evil, one must as the saying goes call a spade a spade, "even very dark, and no brightness in it" (Amos 5:20). All evil is gratuitous, or it is not evil in the strict sense. If it is not pointless, cruel, vindictive, and without meaning then it would not be evil. Evil is chaos. Evil deprives, consumes, and destroys and provides no rational conclusion. Evil admits of no exit except to heap-up or hollow-out additional evil. What we overlook is that Mankind chose, and with each moment of a violated conscience continues to choose, to "know" evil--- to put himself in the place of God thus experiencing the privation of God by degrees. The knowledge of evil is an intimate and experiential knowledge, as in Adam "knew" his wife and bore children. It is immersive, taught in real time, is as unforgiving as mathematics, and is as pointless as childhood leukemia, that evil may be seen for what it is. A recovered drug addict might acknowledge as much, for the knowledge of evil is a lesson better left unlearned. This is the lesson from which Man is still reeling, the epigraph of his assigned textbook the Bible, and the horror of history culminating in the Cross of Christ. Indeed, it is the miracle of the triune God alone that He can call a universe into being from nothing, command light to shine in the darkness, and transform death into life, but the goodness of God does not, has never, and will never require evil.
![Twenty One Pilots - “The Line” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/E2Rj2gQAyPA/mqdefault.jpg)
No matter how deeply I contemplate God's need for evil, and or the suffering of any humans, there is absolutely no justifying the way humans have been tortured, suffered and then died, in the most inhumane examples one can think of. Absolutely no redemptive quality what so ever!!!!!!!!!! Just plain man's inhumanity to man, as it always has been!!!
Religious people won't let their minds go there.
"contemplate God's need for evil"---- ???
God has no need for evil. Evil never has any justification or redemptive quality.
@@gusgrizzel8397 ; they hav cognitive-dissidence perhaps.
@@andrewferg8737 If God has no need for evil, why did he create it? That's in the OT, by the way. He claims he created good and evil.
@yousuf nairang Religious experts claim animals won't see heaven. Which means their suffering and pain is meaningless and worthless. Animals are more noble than humans in many ways.
The answer is obvious: God is responsible by virtue of his omniscience and omnipotence. To deny his responsibility is to deny his omniscience.
If God is responsible for the creation of everything, then it follows that he is responsible for its consequences as foreseen through his omniscience.
There can be no exception, even for free will. If God were to deny himself omniscience with respect to people's future actions, then he would necessarily be in a state of increasing ignorance as the actions of people are going to chaotically impact the future state of the universe down to the quantum level.
In fact, the very moment the first conscious person of free will came into being, a bubble / rift in God's omniscience would become manifest, centered around that person, chaotically expanding outward at rougly the speed of light. God would necessarily be increasingly ignorant of future events.
If this is the type of experiment that God chooses to carry out, then it is somewhat analogous to putting rats in a cage with limited resources and numerous diseases and parasites, fully aware of the potential for evil that such a scenario presents. God essentially set the stage for evil.
Fortunately I do not believe in God.
Robert made another clip about FREE WILL! No excuse for an all-mighty god to be so cruel. He created us "in his image", wow, I hope not.
there is already a disproov for God: B. A. Rehl: www.quora.com/profile/B-A-Rehl - he is able to disproof life after death and God. Further more he is implying that he solved consciousness.
God is responsible for everything but He isn't accountable for our choices, but only accountable for His choice in creating us. Being a just and righteous God as part of His accountability, He has to destroy those elements that choose evil and without repentance over Him who is good. It pains Him to do so, because every soul is important to God, and He wants everyone to choose Him. People have the freewill to choose that which is good, over that which is evil. We're all accountable for the choices that we make, and when we choose to believe in Him/His Son as our Good Lord and Savior and accept His perfect payment on the cross for all our imperfect evil sins we are then accounted as righteous and no longer as evil sinners. We are the righteousness of God within Christ Jesus. When God finally wipes out the earth and all the evil in it, and begins it a new He saves all those that accepted Him. The rest go where they chose.
Throughout history, there have been thousands of theologians and they all have different opinions, but I will tell you one thing not one of them came to the conclusion that (God is responsible for evil).
TehNetherlands -
"Fortunately I do not believe in God"
As do many of your fellow Dutchman. The Netherlands is ćurrently the world's largest producer & supplier of kiddie porn. Fact.
Thanks God there will be less of you in the coming decades.
I seem to remember a verse stating that God created everything, nothing exists that God did not create. So, if evil exists then God created it. Religions can not exist without an enemy. To create a religion you need to create an enemy so that religion all of sudden has a purpose. God being an all knowing god knows everything and knew what would happen and created it anyway. When something bad happens we blame the devil. When something happens and we can't explain it we say God works in mysterious ways. Satan, was supposed to be God right hand man. God gave man free wil. Which I suspect that Satan didn't have free will. How could Satan choose to rebel and the third of all the Angel chose to follow Satan and rebel. No free will? Really? Remember, God created "everything", nothing can exist that God did not create. If evil exists then God created it
God himself has two sides like a coin, which is one but has two sides, you see in this world everything has two sides like magnets, electricity, computer, etc...etc... God is energy so has to have 2-sides to complete the circuit ? This life that we are living now is GOD'S negative side, God's positive side will be seen by soul only, that's is hereafter were body will not be there and only pure eternal soul and heavenly life !!!!
Well said.
Hey could someone do me a huge favor please,? Could someone please copy and paste this comment and send it to my email please, I'm using a Moto 6E and I cannot use this function on this phone. I want to use the comment in a debate with a priest. It's pretty well written and it's almost exactly with what I was thinking about. I really would appreciate that please. I'll send my email if you can Thank you.
@@mikemichaelmusic09 Please send me your email address, and I shall send !!
@@faiyazkhan1108 let's all die and experience the good life
Epicurus sublimely exposed the fallacy of an omnibenevolent God, when he challenged its logical existence by saying; Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
Yet 2300 years have passed, and his lesson has never been learned.
@@nissimhadar could there be something that's not quite God, but something ....grand.... vast....and... different....?
@@JM-co6rf Dark energy is grand, vast and VERY different.
This form of the objection of evil (known as the logical version) has been widely agreed to have failed centuries ago in the philosophical community, according to atheist and Theist philosophers alike. It is no longer used in the contemporary academic debate. If you would like a thorough response to all the versions of the objection of evil then I would highly recommend you read William Lane Craig's many writings on the topic, you can find many articles on his website "Reasonable Faith".
@@nissimhadar It's literally been one of the most discussed and debated quotes in the history of western philosophy, so much so there is an entire branch of philosophy dedicated wholly to this issue, Theodicy.
There are two options, either god doesn't exist, or he exists but does not interfere with this world or care about it that much
That seems to be two options and an assumption.
@Flower Bee you still need to learn a lot, my friend. The interference of God in the world doesnt have anything to do with free will, just like if I help you when you are suffering and need help that doesnt damage your free will in any way. Its just mercy, wich god doenst have, either because he doesnt care or because he doesnt exist.
@@Graewulfe I think what it means is that evil exists, because there's no god around to prevent it or because there's a god that permits it and that god is not compatible with the caring god of the certain popular religions.
there is already a disproov for God: B. A. Rehl: www.quora.com/profile/B-A-Rehl - he is able to disproof life after death and God. Further more he is implying that he solved consciousness.
"There are two options, either god doesn't exist, or he exists but does not interfere with this world or care about it that much."
Why do you limit to those 2 options? 1) "God" is not a Male, it's not limited to a gender. 2) God could be a female. 3) Break past the organized religious limits and expand your understanding. God is a singular word but God but that's an error in translation. 4) God is an E.T. from another planet. 5) We have intelligent design, you can see it all around you, but don't limit your understanding to Christian lies and misunderstandings. 6) Why do you think "God" doesn't care about the planet? I see "The Gods" answering all of us all the time..with what we ask for. The challenge is..most people are focused on lack and been taught that God is mean and punishing...and that you might go to Hell or Heaven once you're done here. All of that is completely nonsense. We do not R.I.P.. We continue on. "God" is expanding and so are we.
Ask a tortured child and her family whether music is "worth it".
Ask them about their eternal life.
@@apologist1 that we cannot do, unlike my suggestion.
@@apologist1 Can't ask about something that doesn't exist.
How long will it take victims to recover from their pain, suffering and grief when the ultimate justice is applied seeing the criminals in great pain and humiliation while they get rewarded by God?
@@mazen1010 The ultimate Oligarchy Bait-and-Switch. Let us enslave you, humiliate, degrade, devalue your lives because YOU WILL BE REWARDED - when you DIE! Yeah, that sure is an incentive...
Religion is ALWAYS a scam, it begins with unprovable assertions and demands you believe, regardless of the logical inconsistencies. There may well BE an entity that deserves the title "God." But he/she/it is NONE of these deities the world offers me. Ask Neil DeGrasse Tyson to define a "God." (Seriously. I would like a group for atheists headed by scientifically trained "clergy." Services are science education classes and seminars, good works and social outreach as any religious organization would do.)
If God created everything, then he must have created evil
ProTip.:
Creator =/= User
Omniscience (All-Knowing and/or All-Knowledgeable) =/= Omni-Action (All-Acting and/or All-Acted)
(God) Evil's Creator =/= (God) Evil's User.
Just Saying.
Yes, evil is the necessary negative for the number line to go to zero and positive.
@Podcast - SørenCast Z Really? I think you're getting EVIL mixed up with the KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND BAD...
@max marrero Where does Rom 9:20-21 talk about the eternal torment? Rom 9:20 "But, my friend, I ask, “Who do you think you are to question God? Does the clay have the right to ask the potter why he shaped it the way he did? 21 Doesn't a potter have the right to make a fancy bowl and a plain bowl out of the same lump of clay?”
Even the Catholic Church has abolished the non-biblical teaching of eternal torment... most evangelical Christians don't teach the literal hell...
@Lorraine I bet you will never find proof for this in the bible... but then again, I'm no bible scholar either...but neither are you... ;-)
An all powerful God is responsible for EVERYTHING.
It really is that simple.
Catholics understand God to be almighty. There are things He cannot do.
@@apologist1 Perhaps they should open a dictionary? Just a thought...
Firstly, God is one but he himself has two sides, like a coin that is one, but with two sides i.e head & tail. This is clearly evident from the fact that he himself created Hell & Heaven so he has two sides period !! Secondly, he favours free will that is why he told Adam and Eve not to eat from that evil tree, which lead us to this world of suffering, what it implies is that this world is God's negative side of life, the positive side of God, will be shown to us hereafter, because hereafter life is different form of life which only exist in pure clean eternal heavenly life of pure clean positive side of God's other side energy. If you can call me then I can be able to explain far far better to make you understand !!! Faiyaz
@@cbernar699 No it can't.
@@cbernar699 oh, so your god is not perfect? Interesting
Robert Kuhn, you’re the best. I’m in exactly the same space you are in….everything you say resonates with me. I’ve been living in severe pain for 16 yrs….im so grateful for your videos.
There are many other options, such as that God exists but is not infinitely powerful.
Yes, there are many other options and an infinite number of opinions. But there is only one Truth. Absolute Truth. And it is that same Truth that science, philosophy, and religion are ALL ideally seeking. And when they find IT, science, philosophy, and religion will be ONE. So, IT'S VERY OBVIOUS THAT ABSOLUTE TRUTH IS A STRANGER TO ALL THREE DISCIPLINES, is it not? "Is God responsible for evil?" I have the comprehensive answer to this question if you have the desire to know. And to begin with, consider this: How can you know if God is responsible for evil until you know exactly WHAT God IS? Until you know exactly what EVIL is? My book gives God's answers to all of these questions; not man-made presumptions. And my RUclips channel gives an introduction to this information as well as a bonus: The answer to the coronavirus. Just a "click" away....(I don't receive RUclips comments notifications, but those who seek will find that it is easy to find out how to contact me,)
I have complete confidence in someone that contradicts themselves twice in one paragraph lol. "Absolute truth is a stranger to religion" - "I have God's comprehensive answer" - "My presumptions are not man made"? Hmm maybe I agree with that, a charlatan isn't much of a man..
That's not logical. God created everything and Holy and Just why can't He be all powerfull?
Mr. Zimmerman, suffering is not a mathematical equality that can be reduced to zero by bringing all its positive and negative terms to the same side. And the idea that a child who is abused, tortured or murdered will find the experience valuable or redeeming in the "afterlife" and that this would somehow exculpate the supposed god persona from having allowed the evil act to happen in the first place is not a "pious hope." It is, rather, an epitome of the moral and intellectual bankruptcy of a vapid mind, bent on selfishly defending an unsustainable premise at ANY cost, just because it FEELS comfortable. It doesn't take a genius to follow the breadcrumbs to an understanding that this kind of apologetics not only admits, but actually encourages and enables evil. It's no wonder that so many serial killers rotting away in jail seriously believe that Jesus loves them. The interviewer didn't go NEARLY hard enough on this intellectual and moral coward, and some of the others who came after...
You nailed it- all in defense of an unsustainable premise.
I didn't like this idea either and the argument was faulty. I admire your passion. In philosophy, we attack the improved version of the argument only. I'm not a philosopher. We don't profit so to speak from errors of form. There has been a lot of problems throughout history with the notions of heaven and hell and the afterlife. The problem is in the assumption of an afterlife. There is a lot more than morality, overcoming negative reciprocity, the tendency to meet bad with worse is also involved. Without God we become what we fear, what we hate, what we avoid.
www.audible.com/pd/Heaven-and-Hell-Audiobook/1797101021?source_code=AUDORWS0718179KY7
Very well put Oleg G. I thought the interviewee exceptionally naive in his arguments.
WOW, that sounds like the traits of a republican dictator 🤓
there is already a disproov for God: B. A. Rehl: www.quora.com/profile/B-A-Rehl - he is able to disproof life after death and God. Further more he is implying that he solved consciousness.
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
- Epicurus (341-270 BC)
@狼中國 Agreed China Wolf, it sounds like a very sophisticated surveillance system. LoL ;-)
Any constraint upon superlatives negate their meaning. God is Being. What is misused freedom except the choice to not be? This privation is what we call evil, or recognize incrementally as chaos and suffering.
"Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you." (Exodus 3)
"Wilt thou set thine eyes upon that which is not?" (Proverbs 23)
"Those who contended with You shall be as nothing, as a nonexistent thing." (Isaiah 41)
"I Am the vine, ye are the branches...apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15)
@@andrewferg8737 So how do you explain this then?
www.worldreligionnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/85acb7827abdbd83b2580f173ee2e784.jpg
@@bipolarbear9917 One need not despise nor dismiss true reflections of God from different traditions. Comparative religion is not a question of pick & choose, but rather one of degrees of recognition.
There absolutely needs to be an amazing afterlife to compensate for all this suffering for all creatures.
thats wat we want and expect, but reality may not care about any suffering
@@theclassicfan7002 Regarding "reality may not care"----
Is not your expressed concern part of reality?
I understand your sincere sentiment, but the notion of "compensation" places the cart before the horse. It is we who consume God and it is of the Lord's mercies that we are not consumed.
@@andrewferg8737 it's a phrase no need to split hairs. I think you get what I meant...
Doesn't that sound like a scam huh?
The story of Genie comes to mind when I ponder on this particular topic. The senseless of her suffering… and the suffering of all sentient beings in the world … has no redemptive value. It’s hard to keep faith in a loving caring God understanding evil like that exists in the world.
The only justifiable conclusion I have come to is the belief we are in some computer simulation and the simulator literally treats any and every conceivable object and outcome neutrally, good or bad or for better or worse. Ultimately this puts greater responsibility on each of us to make the world a better place for ourselves.
This is one of the best channels .I love the contents
Many thanks to Robert Kuhn for this channel
We deal with and grow from our struggles, our challenges, not evil.
The struggles and challenges are a tool for evolving. There is nothing evil about them.
Moreover, there is not good and evil, there is wisdom and ignorance.
God is all things. I am peace, and I am the struggle. I am the wind, and I am the pollen carried in the wind. I am the victor, and I am the vanquished. There is nothing that God is not. God is the infinite breadth of every experience. Behold, the kingdom of heaven is before you.
PASSIVE IDIOT.
"God works in mysterious ways." ... the ultimate "Get out of jail free!" construct.
When a regular "bad Samaritan" stands by and watches evil happen in his presence, he's a terrible person. When god does it, he's mysterious.
Jack Mabel
Nah, that’s “Jesus died for your sins”. (Wouldn’t bet on it)
This is the logic that I see here: "If it sounds too good to be true it must be false. I'll rather bet on guilt, shame and retribution. Let me stick to a self-defeating behavior and laugh cynically at hope so I'm not disappointed further. I can't be more disappointed if I'm already are...".
@@ServeWithIntegrity I see no logic used in your response to the original post. The "god works in mysterious ways" statement is often used to explain, dismiss, and justify divine behavior that in normal humans would be considered devoid of compassion, empathy, and justice. Your comment doesn't address any of that and further brings up its own unrelated and illogical position.
there is already a disproov for God: B. A. Rehl: www.quora.com/profile/B-A-Rehl - he is able to disproof life after death and God. Further more he is implying that he solved consciousness.
What I don't understand is that they say we die because of sin. The wages of sin are death. So if Jesus died to take away are sins then why are we still dying.?
In Christianity, afterlife can't be an answer to earthly suffering: many people go to hell, which involves eternal suffering, while animals don't have an afterlife at all.
To answer the question in the title of the video: "I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I, the Lord, do all these things" (Isaiah 45:7).
The idea that children should suffer evil for some pius hope, is evil
true, but the idea that they shouldn't try to stop escalating vengeance that gathers and then persists across generations is also terrible. However, preventing them from finding a reasonably happy place in the world because of the effects of whatever was done to them with tons of lies that just make it good for the person that hurt them is also horrific. It might be that as other means of developing equity fail that the ultimate dependence on religious faith in divine retribution can become useful - but it's also a means to allow people to take enjoyment in persisting or causing disease, for example, saying that it's up to god. Some people actually say that and they love it when people get diseases and suffer the consequences of diseases. Many people even ask us to feel lifted and happy to hear of the misfortune of others.
yes, it seems kind of cricular and pointless.
Imagine living in paradise for eternity without knowing why you are there. Adam and Eve (according to the Quranic version) acted like spoiled children because they had no experience with the real life.
ONE OF MY favorite episodes.
All of them are not just one.
@@trafficjon400 his opinion vs your opinion
your problem with Opinions???@@NewAccount-y8p
Your conclusion here in this episode has brought you "closer to truth".. loved the revelation about the music.. keep up the good work Robert!
Are you kidding?
@@James-ll3jb😂
In the early 1980's, Australian philosopher and atheist J.L. Mackie wrote, “Since this defense is formally possible, and its principle involves no real abandonment of our ordinary view of the opposition between good and evil, we can concede that the problem of evil does not, after all, show that the central doctrines of theism are logically inconsistent with one another.”
Yes God does all good and bad with us for his own fun.
Just like we can't eat delicacies without burning them and hurting them, we hurt them for our own fun n joy, we behave like this because we have the same tendencies which God has in him, because we are His part and parcel we also have same tendencies but very minute in quantity,but qualities are same as He has in Him
Without having watched it, the answer to the title is: yes, of course, at least if that entity is truly all-powerful, all-knowing, and absolute good, since then there is no excuse that evil exist. And no, Free Will is not such an excuse.
Your constraints upon superlatives negate their meaning. God is Being. What is misused freedom except the choice to not be? This privation is what we call evil, or recognize incrementally as chaos and suffering.
"Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you." (Exodus 3)
"Wilt thou set thine eyes upon that which is not?" (Proverbs 23)
"Those who contended with You shall be as nothing, as a nonexistent thing." (Isaiah 41)
"I Am the vine, ye are the branches...apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15)
FORCED FREEWILL OF EVIL BY A PSICHOPATH.
I find it remarkable that people still have these medieval discussions in the 21st century.
@Donald McCarthy So true.
"Is God Responsible for Evil?"
Yes.
Lots of apologists in the video.
"what God wants and what God makes possible...."
Um...to believe in God means that you must accept the omniscience of God which means that He knows the outcome even before He acts. Therefore, God is either evil since He chose to create Lucifer and then when Lucifer and 1/3 of the Angels went against God He then cast them down to Earth. Of all the places in the universe, let's do Earth. Then, allow temptation to happen for the newly created beings which then leads to many millennia of pain and suffering followed by resurrection, judgement, and then the eternal and forever soul death of billions of people because they didn't accept God into their heart based on no physical evidence for billions of people but faith alone. If God did exist then we are talking about a tiny sliver of the entirety of all humans that ever existed that had first hand experience. Everyone else has to base belief on blind faith.
Great job. Everyone give God a standing ovation for implementing a plan with billions of casualties on top of the already millions or billions of angels lost along with Lucifer.
The other option is that there is another god higher than God and God is just following a script and is lacks omniscience and omnipotence.
Oh, I guess lastly he could be like the D&D alignment called Chaotic Neutral.
I have no fear of standing in front of God at my judgement and asking Him, 'What were you thinking?'.
Your last line made me laugh, I like the sentiment. I have asked God many questions, often not politely. I love D&D. I often think of it as an analogy for this world. God is the DM. I've DMed many games, and my goal is always to challenge the players to their limits. Sometimes they die, but it has to be that hard, because what I most hope for is their glory, and for them to know they earned it.
He permits evil. He could have created us robots programmed to love Him, but no Father would be satisfied with that. Love has to be freely given.
@@apologist1 He could have given us no reason to "hate him". He failed.
Actually - it is believers who have failed.
Nice. I totally agree. 😎
there can be no free will without evil
evil was injected into human reality by God via his creation the devil
so in an odd sense the devil is doing Gods bidding
the whole purpose is to put us in a situation where we know both evil and good so we can choose
and that is where you realise that most of the evil we know comes to our reality through mankind by choice
It’s amazing how religious belief (aka superstition) can destroy the ability to critical and rationel thinking, and replace it with mental gymnastics beyond the reasonable.
GOD is the ONE WHO is Responsible for All HIS Created Beings both Good and Evil.HE knows what is Good for Those Who are Good and also HE knows what is Good for Those Who are Evil BEING a GOOD GOD the CREATOR.
If god is all powerful that he could with folded hands watch babies die of cancer, then evidently, he cannot be good.
That's if death is the end.
@@izumayeru in which case it's fine to die of cancer?
@@izumayeru you would have to provide some strong evidence for death not being the end. which no one has .
@@Brian.001 From the Christian pov, the worldview is this.
There is war in heaven. Satan is banished.Human has control of earth. He hands it over to Satan through sin. God will take back control by restoring his people through Jesus and sending Satan to hell.
Until then (regarding activities on earth), God will either initiate or prevent an occurrence, or let something happen for his own purpose. Eg. The brothers of Joseph sell him as slave to Egypt with evil intent but God uses it for good in the end. Now if you met Joseph as a slave , you'd ask why God let that happen , but that would be because you don't know what he is trying to ACHIEVE.
Cancer is not good but we don't know what he is trying to achieve. He also says death is not the end so it's unreasonable to give a proper verdict.
@@nathanforrest3483 Jesus died and rose again. I guess now I'll have to prove the bible is true. There are many channels online if you really want to know more regarding that. Eg. RC. Sproul.
In the end , you'd still need faith but ull get answers to the most popular cliche questions people rinse and repeat all the time.
Well the Christian bible explicitly states that God does good and evil.
Edit: for those interested in reading it, it is found in Isaiah 45:7.
Lol, completely false.
@@dazedmaestro1223 look up Isaiah 45:7. At least in some versions of God's words, i.e., some versions of the bible, he does.
@@User-jr7vf, yeah *some* versions.
Isaiah 45:7
I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the Lord, do all these things.
_NIV_
It is clear that the evil in the KJV is natural misfortune, not moral evil.
The "Christian Bible", so what does the Jewish Bible say?
@@User-jr7vf Sorry but no he doesn't. God is Good and affirms it. God affirms he created evil. Evil is that which opposes good. God created the ability for that which has the ability to oppose him. But he didn't cause the free agent to oppose him.
How can an all good God allow for slavery or genocide? I think that question must be answered by theologians before we can make any forward progress
"I think that question must be answered by theologians before we can make any forward progress"-----
Respectfully, should not you answer that question before you can make progress? Why would God allow you to continue to do evil? I am assuming of course, that your are neither a saint, nor willing to suffer your own destruction to prevent your complicity in the furtherance of evil.
What if there's a God, but if he interferes with what's going on in the world, then we wouldn't have what we call "free will"?
Why don’t you ask God yourself and then share your answer.
@@nuno.peixoto so every person who claims a god has spoken to them lied. Good to know
Why is slavery and genocide evil? You must be pulling from a standard of good to make such a claim.
What is your standard of morality to make such a claim?
Otherwise it’s just your opinion that slavery and genocide are evil, because the people who commit them believe it’s good.
It’s like your stealing from God’s attributes to make a claim against God
I must say I love your questions.
Yes I have thought that too, neccesary experience to build caracter.
My humble thoughts are, maybe the thing is that we need to take a position faced with evil?
To recognize the beast when you see it.
I am convinced that we are not just bodies governed by basic instincts.
We have them, but there is more to us than that.
When we die, our spirit rise like a released prisoner, and you go to another dimension where you meet other "released prisoners".
I have experienced that, so that is what I must believe in.
So in a way I think life must be neccesary for our spirit to be able to develop, to acknowledge itself.
Keith Ward had the most coherent answer regarding the problem of evil.
"the most coherent answer regarding the problem of evil" ----
Suggesting a rational explanation for the irrational is by definition problematic. Evil is never required.
Only the religious mind can construct the propositions of positive aspects of evil and not be bothered by the contradictions
Very well said. 👏
They all have the same self-satisfied, baby like features of someone that has never made a responsible, adult decision to direct their lives. Don't expect too much from them.
Firstly, God is one but he himself has two sides, like a coin that is one, but with two sides i.e head & tail. This is clearly evident from the fact that he himself created Hell & Heaven so he has two sides period !! Secondly, he favours free will that is why he told Adam and Eve not to eat from that evil tree, which lead us to this world of suffering, what it implies is that this world is God's negative side of life, the positive side of God, will be shown to us hereafter, because hereafter life is different form of life which only exist in pure clean eternal heavenly life of pure clean positive side of God's other side energy. If you can call me then I can be able to explain far far better to make you understand !!! Faiyaz Khan ==> Mobile No : +971522073093
Faiyaz Khan Prometheus loved man more then the Olympians, who had banished most of his family to Tartarus. So when Zeus decreed that man must present a portion of each animal they scarified to the gods Prometheus decided to trick Zeus. He created two piles, one with the bones wrapped in juicy fat, the other with the good meat hidden in the hide. He then bade Zeus to pick. Zeus picked the bones. Since he had given his word Zeus had to accept that as his share for future sacrafices. In his anger over the trick he took fire away from man. However, Prometheus lit a torch from the sun and brought it back again to man. Zeus was enraged that man again had fire. He decided to inflict a terrable punishment on both man and Prometheus. It’s sad but true.
Is inflicting pain on a baby evil? From the perspective of the child, that's always true. However, it's not always so. When parents take their children to the doctor for their shots, it's painful and incomprehensible for the child, but the parent knows better. That's how I explain evil in the world.
"religion was created when the first conman met the first fool.".M.Twain
"Is God Responsible for Evil?"
Of course not.
You need to exist to be responsible for something.
Regarding Isaiah 45----- “I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.”
Isaiah is making a comparison between light & dark and good & evil--- between that which is and that which is not. Philosophically this indicates a contingent state of potential. The presence of light posits the potential of darkness but not a necessity of darkness.
The context in which Isaiah is writing is in point a logical refutation against philosophical dualism. Dualism is a common idea in many religions---- that there are two equal and opposing gods of good and evil. Isaiah categorically rejects this notion in this passage as it is nestled between the statements "I Am the Lord, and there is none else" [and] "I the Lord do all these things."
God is "Being" itself---- "I Am That I Am" (Exodus 3) and "in Him we live, and move, and have our being" (Acts 17). Were one to be completely deprived of God, one would not exist--- "Those who war against You shall be as nothing, as a nonexistent thing" (Isaiah 41). Thus, privation of being by degrees or incrementally is what one calls evil and experiences as suffering.
Thus, God defines evil. Just as light defines its absence as darkness, that which is defines that which is not. God as Existence itself thus creates or defines the potential of non-existence, or evil.
One cannot deprive, misuse, pervert, negate, etc. lest there be some "thing" from which to detract, nor can one detract from that something except its first exists. The thief cannot steal except he have hands and there be some good to steal, nor the liar pervert truth except there be truth and he have a mouth.
Thus, "Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above" (John 19). This statement neither requires one to do evil nor excuses it. Rather it states quite simply that one could do neither good nor evil without first existing. "For apart from Me you are able to do nothing" (John 15).
@@andrewferg8737 As an ex-christian I know all of it, and believe none of it.
@@andreasplosky8516 "You need to exist to be responsible for something"----
As an ex-christian who knows all of it you must be aware that the "God of the Bible" is Existence itself. It is logically incoherent to posit the non-existence of Existence.
@@andreasplosky8516 Existence simply is. One may argue regarding the nature or attributes of existence, but existence is and is independent of our definitions and beliefs.
@@andrewferg8737 existence is not the problem. Trying to conflate it with the god-label is the problem.
I'd go with solution 4. A necessity for balance. There can not be good without evil. If there was one without the other, what would there to be in comparison? Nothing. Good, opposite of evil, one cannot exist without the other
Refuted by St. Basil, 4th century.
The only perceptive force between good and evil is man's understanding and performance of such forces.
I seriously don’t buy any of the “evil is necessary” arguments, at least none of the ones I have heard, except for the no evolution without struggle argument.
Evil is NEVER necessary. For evil is nothing in itself, but rather a privation of the good. Freedom to will the good and to act upon that will is not a privation, but rather an expression of the good. Evil results in an enslaved will unable and unwilling to act upon the good. This is evident in our daily experience, for we struggle to do the good with great effort, yet our failures to will and to do the good remain effortless and come to naught.
You are correct. If there is a heaven without necessary suffering and evil then why couldn't god create the world the same way?
@@sahebchoudhury Your university could simply print diplomas, but that would not be a true education.
God didn’t just create evil... God is evil beyond comprehension.
Yeppp
another great video.
thankyou to you and your team...!
finally if there is any god, he would never leave us in this mess of thinking in a dilemma about his existence and the evil issue, trying to figure out something!!!
"If you're really who you claim to be you would end our suffering and come down off the Cross" (Luke 23, paraphrased) Read further to learn more...
"if there is any god, he would never leave us in this mess of thinking in a dilemma"-----
Do you also reject geometry because it is difficult for some to understand?
Faith is the absence of reason.
@Closer To Truth : Don't worry about it, beause it's all part of his loving plan for all of us. :-)
Evil is not part of the plan.
Is evil justified if the outcome is good?
The outcome should not be separated from the means to achieve it.
No, since evil can only produce evil.
Being violent and being evil is not exacly the same thing.
Specifically what does that good outcome look like anyway.
Depends on ratio of good to bad
Donald McCarthy The deity that could have killed Lucifer but chose not to - saint or sinner?
As far as I know, midwives are not omniscient
Is it just me or does the clergy throughout time struggle to update and modify any teachings every time human intellect changes or advances.
Scientific method.
No, it's not just you!!!
The clergy has been playing catch up for hundreds of years. Both in explaining the world and in moral values.
@@myothersoul1953 If not thousands of years and I would assume that is all of them in this battle of good and evil..
Actually, I see it just the opposite. Men tend to cling to old ideas and are reluctant to change. If Jesus Christ were to address us today and correct our false understandings and doctrines, would the Christian churches be willing to change their doctrines? NO, I can say with full confidence. Because, the event I have just described has indeed transpired in recent history. So: "Is God responsible for evil?" I have the comprehensive answer to this question if you have the desire to know. And to begin with, consider this: How can you know if God is responsible for evil until you know exactly WHAT God IS? Until you know exactly what EVIL is? My book gives God's answers to all of these questions; not man-made presumptions. And my RUclips channel gives an introduction to this information as well as a bonus: The answer to the coronavirus. Just a "click" away....(I don't receive RUclips comments notifications, but those who seek will find that it is easy to find out how to contact me,)
It is the nature of Being to give of Itself-- to Love. Love is a creative act. It entails work, but not of necessity suffering. However, to Love in the void that evil is, to defeat evil with good, is excruciating for it is giving to fill an endless vacuum. Christ on the Cross is not simply an example, but the very person of God for God is Love. God continually gives even to the point of death and beyond death to the point of hell. We consume God, for it is of the Lord's mercies that we are not consumed.
If God we’re not responsible for evil he wouldn’t have sent his son to fix it.
God literally is both evil and good. "God" is infinite potentiality.
Is this an axiom of reality? If so then you are a prophet. If you are not a prophet then can you do more than state things that sound cool to a stoner who wants followers? If not then I am reminded about a thing regarding bearing false witness - which would suggest you don't believe in god in which case, why are you stating facts that only have meaning if god exists?
@@tricky778 Do you disagree?
@@MrJamesdryable would you like me to?
@@tricky778 It doesn't really matter what I'd like. You're gonna think whatever you think.
@@MrJamesdryable it would be weird if I thought something that I didn't think wouldn't it?
26:46 "not everything that God creates, God intends..." wow I can finally relate to this god
Yes, this is junk information about God coming mostly from the corrupted old scriptures. God had sent tens of thousands of messages to earth, but the evil part of humans has corrupted them. Quran is the last message to earth.
@@mazen1010 No, there was The Book of Mormon.
And then, Scientology, bringing ALL the scriptures together...
All praise Hubbard.
.
Freddie Hubbard...
@@thesoundsmith So, you worship Hubbard as the creator of the universe? He is long dead!!!
Um, U don't create something u don't intend? Oops
If God is omnipotent and created Lucifer. There fore seeing/knowing the behavior to take place. Then yes he very well did create evil in a sense.
Satan and evilness are the needed negatives for all the positives to be understood.
So God can't exist without Satan?
Regarding Isaiah 45----- “I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.”
Isaiah is making a comparison between light & dark and good & evil--- between that which is and that which is not. Philosophically this indicates a contingent state of potential. The presence of light posits the potential of darkness but not a necessity of darkness.
The context in which Isaiah is writing is in point a logical refutation against philosophical dualism. Dualism is a common idea in many religions---- that there are two equal and opposing gods of good and evil. Isaiah categorically rejects this notion in this passage as it is nestled between the statements "I Am the Lord, and there is none else" [and] "I the Lord do all these things."
God is "Being" itself---- "I Am That I Am" (Exodus 3) and "in Him we live, and move, and have our being" (Acts 17). Were one to be completely deprived of God, one would not exist--- "Those who war against You shall be as nothing, as a nonexistent thing" (Isaiah 41). Thus, privation of being by degrees or incrementally is what one calls evil and experiences as suffering.
Thus, God defines evil. Just as light defines its absence as darkness, that which is defines that which is not. God as Existence itself thus creates or defines the potential of non-existence, or evil.
One cannot deprive, misuse, pervert, negate, etc. lest there be some "thing" from which to detract, nor can one detract from that something except its first exists. The thief cannot steal except he have hands and there be some good to steal, nor the liar pervert truth except there be truth and he have a mouth.
Thus, "Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above" (John 19). This statement neither requires one to do evil nor excuses it. Rather it states quite simply that one could do neither good nor evil without first existing. "For apart from Me you are able to do nothing" (John 15).
If you believe in an omnipotent and omniscient God, then you have to believe that if there was a better way to do it, then it would be done that way. That's where Faith comes in. Faith is the whole smash. As far as the animals, we humans are above the animals. That doesn't mean we have to treat them as such. We can, and should, treat them with compassion. As to the amount of evil, no there doesn't have to be this much evil, man determines the level of evil in the world.
If you believe that an all powerful Creator has designed you. Then yes your God is solely responsible for evil. There's no way around it. Free Will means you have a choice of good or bad. But those choices were created for you. Pretty self explanatory.
The callousness with which these folks (sitting in their comfortable chairs and apologist jobs) discuss evil and redemption is shocking! Tell that to a child suffering due to evil. Is this position itself evil?
Just imagine this argument - give us million dollars in this life...we will pay you lots and lots of money and infinite happiness and compensate you with "endless good" to you posthumously. Will anyone accept it? Amazing the guy can say that with a straight face. The posthumous promises, an ultimate con!
Well said!
I mean, won't you accept it?
Anyone would have to concede that a god that would create a world like the one we inhabit would have to be the ultimate cosmic pervert
@Jermain Roberts no.
Haha cosmic pervert
The story of Adam and Eve (the Quranic version) shows that without evil, fear, pain and suffering no one could tell who is good or bad. As for righteousness, mercy and kindness to show, there must be real dangers, real pain and real loss.
@Jermain Roberts We come to this world as helpless and ignorant babies. So, our maker has all the knowledge and wisdom. If you have something please tell me.
@Jermain Roberts There is no way of knowing who is God (other than that he is one and all-wise and all-powerful), or what God wants from us without God sending us a message. Unfortunately, our history is filled with evil self-proclaimed false prophets. So, no philosopher can provide any truth about God, other than that God is invisible and almighty.
When God sends a messenger to the people he gives the messenger a group of supernatural miracles to prove their authenticity. Without these miracles to prove the truthfulness of the message, then the evil people will play with us.
God has sent the people of earth tens of thousands of messages throughout history and the vast geography. Quran is the last message from God to earth.
Again, good and evil is applying human values to “gods”. Humans create both?
God, good, and evil are human creations. Humanity can have any or all. It doesn't matter. Humans created it.
Bingo....but God remains pure and good
Regarding Isaiah 45----- “I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.”
Isaiah is making a comparison between light & dark and good & evil--- between that which is and that which is not. Philosophically this indicates a contingent state of potential. The presence of light posits the potential of darkness but not a necessity of darkness.
The context in which Isaiah is writing is in point a logical refutation against philosophical dualism. Dualism is a common idea in many religions---- that there are two equal and opposing gods of good and evil. Isaiah categorically rejects this notion in this passage as it is nestled between the statements "I Am the Lord, and there is none else" [and] "I the Lord do all these things."
God is "Being" itself---- "I Am That I Am" (Exodus 3) and "in Him we live, and move, and have our being" (Acts 17). Were one to be completely deprived of God, one would not exist--- "Those who war against You shall be as nothing, as a nonexistent thing" (Isaiah 41). Thus, privation of being by degrees or incrementally is what one calls evil and experiences as suffering.
Thus, God defines evil. Just as light defines its absence as darkness, that which is defines that which is not. God as Existence itself thus creates or defines the potential of non-existence, or evil.
One cannot deprive, misuse, pervert, negate, etc. lest there be some "thing" from which to detract, nor can one detract from that something except its first exists. The thief cannot steal except he have hands and there be some good to steal, nor the liar pervert truth except there be truth and he have a mouth.
Thus, "Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above" (John 19). This statement neither requires one to do evil nor excuses it. Rather it states quite simply that one could do neither good nor evil without first existing. "For apart from Me you are able to do nothing" (John 15).
I really don't understand all this nonsense: if God is capable of creating an afterlife which compensates and even outweighs all evil in this life, then why isn't He capable of just skipping this life and create the circumstances as they exist in that afterlife?
Let alone the question, why would an omnibenevolent, omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, unchanging God even need to create anything at all? Isn't He enough as He is, just by Himself? Does He need a creation, which would make Him imperfect I guess?
For me, the necessary requirement of an afterlife to make sense of the presence of evil is the strongest argument against God. If perfect existence in the heaven of the hereafter is possible then why didn't God just place us there in the first place...?
If he couldn't then he is constrained and not omnipotent. If he has to allow free will to achieve his wants, then surely there must be the possibility of rebellion even in the paradise of heaven and what then...?
Isaiah 45:7
King James Version
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
there is already a disproov for God: B. A. Rehl: www.quora.com/profile/B-A-Rehl - he is able to disproof life after death and God. Further more he is implying that he solved consciousness.
Question123 - not possible to prove or disprove the afterlife... unless you are dead... NDEs offer interesting glimpses though and often share striking similarities... again - it's not proof as the person hasn't died, but interesting nonetheless.
@@aeon6706you should read his theories - he claims to have it solved (including how our brain creates consciousness) - so who knows? Worth investigating, could be a paradigm shift that kills off religious beliefs.
Greg Letter Excellent logic
The New International Version renders the passage, “I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster.”
4:06 the moment he realises he has been fooling himself and decides to continue to mislead others. Gotcha kid.
praying the Inquisition bonfires won't have been mentioned
@@sohaibzerguine5783 Yeah, sure... like the "fell power of the eye of Sauron," right? You've got some cheek trying to highlight the failures of a silly religious dogma by contrasting it with an even more ridiculous and toxic religious dogma. When will religious people understand that atheists aren't the LEAST bit interested in hearing about your "god?" If they are not laughing out loud when you try to convince them, they are just chuckling to themselves inside.
@@sohaibzerguine5783 If you are a Muslim, then you should present the answers from Quran. You shouldn't be pushing a nonsense like that book (it is not even written by Ali, it was written 400 years later). Shame on you!!!
Even though the opening credits show the Islam place of prayer (the mosque) no single reference was made to Islam. Satan, evilness, pain, suffering and fear are tools God has created to make the free willed creatures see and be able to understand righteousness, honesty, kindness and mercy. Otherwise, if there was no real evil, real loss or real pain all the good values will be meaningless.
Gulp, yes so true
Dean Zimmerman doesn't seem to know anything. seems like he's making it all up as he goes
That's how religion works - this is why slicing boys penises into two parts is still disgustingly acceptable in the UK and rewarded with large sums of money.
Sounds like every religion ever
Why do you expect them to know more than you,on a subject where answers don't exist?
No God, no evil, no good.
EVIL IS MAN´S CHOICE THROUGH SATAN. GOD IS TEACHING US TO CHOOSE GOOD OVER EVIL TO BECOME MORE GODLIKE.
Evil created God
A child sits at an AI console in a no too distant future,. Bored he ask the computer to create "a World"..The computer asks him what beings should inhabit this world. The child says, make them a multitude of differentiated organic types that love to survive, reproduce and enjoy things. The computer then asks about how nutrition is obtained for the various sort of flora and fauna he has created. On a whim, the child laughs and tells the computer to "make them eat each other, make superior beings breed the inferiors just for eating, make sure they have emotions that know fear as well as love. Make sure they feel pain and horror when they are rendered apart by sharp teeth or tools of other inhabitants".. The computer asks if identical organic types can eat each other, Yes of course, says the child. The computer asks if they can simply eliminate other organics to get more resources of the inferiors.The child laughs and says "yes and make them ingenious about that aspect and call this act "Killing"" the computer finally asks, "what would you call this world"? the child responds wih glee "MeatWorld".
The simulation is borne...The Child turns on the immersive reality device and begins to snack of whatever futuristic children eat. .
the runtime of the simulation begin and the simulation focuses on s a pig squealing in fear and pain as it is bludgeoned to death by a host of bipeds, the last sound that the pig's auditory system tries to process from the Bipeds is "We thank God and this Great Earth for providing us this bounty....
If there is one? absolutely
Without God there could not be good or evil...at least not what we see as good or evil. For without God, we posit nature as "supreme". But nature is uncaring and so couldn't "care" about good or evil...there would be just "stuff that happens", some of which we like, some of which we don't. The bad things that we call "evil" only take on the connotation of evil if God exists. But then "good" also exists, and it is good as opposed to that which we just "prefer", again, because of God. On the whole there seems to be more good in the world than evil, i.e. on the whole better to exist and experience life than the alternative, which is non-existence and oblivion. That is, at least, what I'd think most people would subscribe to
Ultimate power and knowledge? How can he not be responsible?
Dont matter,Hes not going to punish Himself,so get over it or suffer the consequences.
The human psyche is "responsible" for evil and we wouldn't want it any other way. It is by contrast that we generate a reality image to begin with. Remove evil and you're left with nothing at all. Like Alan Watts pointed out; if you could go someplace for bliss, you'd eventually choose right where you are. It's the only vantage point that has any on offer.
I have a question for those who claim that God is omniscient: Did God know that Adam and Eve would sin?
Tomas Hull Well if god didn’t know that Adam and Eve would sin, then he is not omniscient. If he did know, then he is not benevolent. Christians can’t have it both ways.
Furthermore, did god know that Lucifer would rebel and become Satan?
@@margaretbarrett6087 Let's say God can peer into the future but chooses selectively not to because He wants he children to do the right thing. Is that benevolent?
@Podcast - SørenCast Z So, you contradicted yourself in the same sentence...
all these commercials are evil
Humans created God 😎
@MILITO SIMON 😀
Jesus never did anything evil. He got angry but he didn't commit evil.
God made evil possible by creating free creatures, but the free creatures made evil actual.
Good and evil are judgements. Judgements are contextual. The hidden context condemns our judgements.
Get out of your bloody text books and go face evil...directly.
@@Nexus-ub4hs confrontation will put your soul in danger. Unless you don't believe in souls.
Good & evil beings are responsible for their own actions. God gave us the ability to choose.
If evil is necessary in this material,temporal world ,why would an afterlife necessarily be an all ,endless eternal good?
Evil is not required.
I like the analogy of the light, the light doesnt produce shadows, a shadow is the lack of light. The earth was given to men to rule and we gave the power to evil, the prince of this world. Where there is lack of light there is darkness, where there is lack of good there is evil, where there is evil there is suffering.
The inescapable and unjustified presumptions in the claim that "evil" logically negates the existence of God are, 1. That God is separated from our experience of evil and, 2. That God can choose whether or not to be. In both of these presumptions I find standard formal expressions of atheism to be almost uniquely devoid of grace and defined by outrage.
Over six separate instances in an eighteen-year period I experienced the challenge of seven broken bones. These were extraordinary local evils to specific parts of my anatomy, but I assure you they didn't go unnoticed by the whole of me. Each instance of the "evil", however, showed me things about myself that ultimately did me good. When I have raised this issue with theologically trained friends they've tended to aver about the heresy of Pantheism. I, however, see pantheism less as a problem for understanding God and more as a challenge to a carefully constructed series of supports for human power structures and attempts to define God as people wish a dottering old grandfather to be.
Love Robert's feigned naivete!😅
„There can be no better world that contains beings like us“ - well, yes, there can! And we’re constantly creating such better and better worlds. I mean ok, eventually, it‘ll all collapse thanks to thermodynamics, and it’s not a linear progression - we faced many setbacks and we’re going through one right now (beginning in the 70s with the neoliberal counterrevolution); but we can achieve pretty amazing worlds with very little suffering. If god wasn’t capable of creating such a world, maybe we’re just smarter than your supposed god.
*Isaiah 45:7 KJV* - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."
Regarding Isaiah 45-----
Isaiah is making a comparison between light & dark and good & evil--- between that which is and that which is not. Philosophically this suggests a contingent state of potential. The presence of light posits the potential of darkness but not a necessity of darkness.
The context in which Isaiah is writing is in point a logical refutation against philosophical "dualism". Dualism is a common idea in many religions---- that there are two equal and opposing gods of good and evil. Isaiah categorically rejects this notion in the passage you quote as it is nestled between the statements "I Am the Lord, and there is none else" [and] "I the Lord do all these things."
God is "Being" itself---- "I Am That I Am" (Exodus 3) and "in Him we live, and move, and have our being" (Acts 17). Were one to be completely deprived of God, one would not exist--- "Those who war against You shall be as nothing, as a nonexistent thing" (Isaiah 41). Privation of being by degrees or incrementally is what one calls evil and suffering.
Thus, God defines evil. Just as light defines its absence as darkness, that which is defines that which is not. God as Existence itself thus creates or defines the potential of non-existence, or evil.
One cannot deprive, misuse, pervert, negate, etc. lest there be some "thing" from which to detract, nor can one detract from that something except its first exists. The thief cannot steal except he have hands and there be some good to steal, nor the liar pervert truth except there be truth and he have a mouth.
Thus, "Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above" (John 19). This statement neither requires one to do evil nor excuses it. Rather it states quite simply that one could do neither good nor evil without first existing. "For apart from Me you are able to do nothing" (John 15).
The free will argument only works for human choice evil. Not natural disaster evil
Absence of good (god) is where evil comes from. Because a vampire called greed is ignorant (dead).
But how can you appreciate the light if you've never known the dark? Perhaps it's that simple.
I can appreciate my loving parents without experiencing abusive ones.
I can't really understand why the problem of evil is even a problem at all
The world itself isn't evil, but our experience of it gives us the experience of suffering.
You're on the right track, William. "Is God responsible for evil?" I have the comprehensive answer to this question if you have the desire to know. And to begin with, consider this: How can you know if God is responsible for evil until you know exactly WHAT God IS? Until you know exactly what EVIL is? My book gives God's answers to all of these questions; not man-made presumptions. And my RUclips channel gives an introduction to this information as well as a bonus: The answer to the coronavirus. Just a "click" away....(I don't receive RUclips comments notifications, but those who seek will find that it is easy to find out how to contact me,)
The act of giving is a creative act. It need not entail suffering. However, giving in the void of which evil consists, is excruciating.
Creator of evil doesnt mean doer of evil....
A humane almighty would absolutely never allow, for example... any child to get raped. There is simply no good excuse for such horrors which it doesn't matter if justice follows because it was ALLOWED to happen... perhaps, even to be blamed for... if an almighty were somehow to exist. I'm fortunate not to have never suffered any of the sorts... but as my very essence... as I would never want to ever become friends with a terrorist... I never want anything to do with an almighty that has ALLOWED the type of horrors as beyond the moderate type of evils.
I was told (by priests as a child) that animals are not excluded from gods grace. I was told they are living in a paradise, because they do not anticipate future. Well, today I'm not sure about that and the paradise view has faded. You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to figure this out - only Holmes Roston the third.
I took his advice and thought about his "cruziform creation" - whatever that may be - it works , obviously. In his senility Holmes does not realize he admits the cruelty of god's creation. I admire you stoic responses Robert - and your attempts to get "closer" to ...
Dean reminds me of John Lennon - just imagine people living life in peace. But why not include animals? At least those with eyes, Homes?
Theists can't solve the problem of evil.
I don´t know if theist-rationalists would tell a child while he or she is raped to death (that does happen) that such experience is a "test" and that there is a "compensation" at a wonderful afterlife. These kind of people are cowards and of a very low ethics. It si just unbelivable.
To get closer to truth on this perhaps biggest of all the big questions, I believe we must consider and discuss the following topics and their relationship to one another: that iniquity was first found in the otherwise perfect being, Lucifer; his aspiration to rule with (or in place of) God; the consequent rebellion against God of a third of the angels under Satan; why the two-tree test in the Garden of Eden; Satan's subtle access to the human mind (Eph 2:2); his rulership of this world (2Cor 4:4); that God is in the process of "bringing many children to Glory (Heb 2:10
Isaiah answers it pretty clearly::
5 I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me.
===
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
You don't hear of this much from the pulpit.
That Isaiah 45:5-7
Although I do not believe that there is an all mighty God, I do believe that there is purpose in evil. Without evil, there cannot be good. In a system where there is good and evil, the whole benefits and becomes stronger from the constant struggle.
As God says somewhere,
"Your thoughts are not my tougthts"
Or
"When you were a child, you tought as a child now as adult you think as adult "
In what point is our intelect, have we the capacity to judge objetibely the world?.
right.. so we throw our brains out and give up hope of knowing or understanding anything of course!
@Podcast - SørenCast Z Spider Eyes
For the non-believer the problem of evil is not an academic issue. Their encounter with evil, whether in scripture, or current events, or personal experience is a source of deep-seated doubt which may, ironically, animate their conscience against truth. This is, after all, the reasoning for the phrase "the problem" of evil. It is indeed an insurmountable "problem" of conscience and obstacle to faith for the unbeliever. Philosophy may offer some insight, but "miserable comforters are ye all" (Job 16:2) is the reply to such theodicies most often heard. Rather, any treatise on the problem of evil, one must as the saying goes call a spade a spade, "even very dark, and no brightness in it" (Amos 5:20). All evil is gratuitous, or it is not evil in the strict sense. If it is not pointless, cruel, vindictive, and without meaning then it would not be evil. Evil is chaos. Evil deprives, consumes, and destroys and provides no rational conclusion. Evil admits of no exit except to heap-up or hollow-out additional evil. What we overlook is that Mankind chose, and with each moment of a violated conscience continues to choose, to "know" evil--- to put himself in the place of God thus experiencing the privation of God by degrees. The knowledge of evil is an intimate and experiential knowledge, as in Adam "knew" his wife and bore children. It is immersive, taught in real time, is as unforgiving as mathematics, and is as pointless as childhood leukemia, that evil may be seen for what it is. A recovered drug addict might acknowledge as much, for the knowledge of evil is a lesson better left unlearned. This is the lesson from which Man is still reeling, the epigraph of his assigned textbook the Bible, and the horror of history culminating in the Cross of Christ. Indeed, it is the miracle of the triune God alone that He can call a universe into being from nothing, command light to shine in the darkness, and transform death into life, but the goodness of God does not, has never, and will never require evil.