How to Make the Most Powerfull Two Stroke - P1 Porting
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- While waiting for parts necessary to continue with the new engine..
Lots of comments asking why I think it will be the most powerful ever, it's time to explain the theory in detail, I'll try to lay it out as a how-to.
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First the exhaust port and duct.
It's simple compared to the transfers, The goal is to maximize port area and flow through the duct.
There's a few constraints you have to work within for an exhaust port to work.
- Width of a single port can't be too wide without snagging the piston ring, max is proportional to bore diameter, port shape(flat top less forgiving vs radiused, radiused corners.),and ring properties.
An old rule of thumb is around 70%, but you can go wider on smaller bores/not so wide on larger. To circumvent this there's twin, tripple, and even quadruple ports. Going past 100% of bore width has proven to loose power because it disturbes the scavenging, the dance between transfers and exhaust.
- Height, can't be too high otherwise you'll screw up resonance in the pipe.
I'll talk more in detail about this when we get to that pipe. In short, when the port opens a pressure wave starts traveling down the pipe, gets reflected by the convergent cone, and starts traveling back towards the port. We want this to return as the piston is about to close the port to effectively close it earlier and push fresh charge sitting in the duct back in. We also want a portion of this wave to hit when the port is closed and be reflected back. This reminder of the first wave will join forces with the next wave as the port opens again and strengthen it slightly. This then repeats for the next cycle, and the next, and so on and so forth. Resonance.
About 190deg port duration is optimum for resonance, part because the real wave doesn't start traveling until a few degrees after the port is initially opened, part because you want the wave to be a little late on the return for parts of it to be reflected back.
You should make the port high than 190deg tho, I'll get to why soon.
Don't make the port too close to transfers, will cause short circuiting,fresh charge going straight out the exhaust.
My cylinders exhaust port
- First thing you'll notice is that it's definitely breaking the single port rule of thumb for safe width, it's at 100% bore width. Why no bridges is simple, bridges reduce effective area and cause turbulence and skin friction. I'm running a special retained ring/custom piston combo, we'll get to that in another episode. The sole reason for this width is to maximize blowdown area, the area of the port above the transfer roof height, the part that's open before the transfers are uncovered.
This is what's important, the rest of the port is not, in fact in my design I've raised the exhaust port floor to almost transfer roof height. This serves a dual purpose, keeps velocity high in the duct, and reduces short circuiting from the A transfers.
Port duration is 198deg, there's a relatively large bevel on the almost flat top edge bringing it up to about 204deg effectively.
The flat top to maximize area, the bevel to increase flow, and make life easier for the ring. The reason for exhaust duration above what's best for resonance is to gain more time area,to allow the engine to rev higher - as long as the loss in torque is less than what you gain by rpm you'll increase power.
The duct.
The duct is shaped to maximize flow and keep velocity high. Three important features.
- Bulges. Spent gases don't just intuitively want to exit the cylinder at the direction of the pipe, they want to get out as fast as possible, radially straight out. The bulges are there to gently persuade them in the right direction, a "straight out" port might make them upset, have them spend more energy on their exit.
- The duct exit is smaller than the effective area of the port, about 75%, This to keep duct velocity high, about mach0.8 at the exit.
- Very high exhaust floor, promoting blowdown flow, low volume keeping velocity high.
Between the pipe and duct exit there's a short transition piece.
This quickly brings the smaller duct exit out to the header diameter which is 100% of effective port area.
This steep transition because in the pipe we want high pressure/low velocity vs. in the duct where we want high velocity/low pressure.
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Videos like this really complement the normal build stuff. Understanding the ideas behind your design decisions makes everything more interesting, and you're good at explaining them. Keep up the amazing work!
Thanks man!
I agree, it makes us better understand what the deal is.
Couldn't agree more. Keep up the good videos in both formats.
I second this!
Spot on totally agree.
Little bits through the build and you wonder how important it is.
You are the most knowledgeable two-stroke man I have ever listened to
Just because I've listened to lots of knowledgeable two stroke guys!
Not to toot my own horn, but.. Braaaap braaaaaap braaaap wiinng wiing. Im pretty intelligent myself. 😏 lol
@@2STROKESTUFFING awesome vid my guy super interesting, good luck with your project
@@DarkSifu wanna put that to the test?
@@spacebrowni6761 it would be a waste of time, hes at the four a level there's n way to measure it
Great stuff, it’s refreshing my memory from 2-stroke tuning in the 90’s.
I once fitted a Yamaha LC 125 engine into a Suzuki RM 125 frame, to do this the exhaust had to do an immediate right turn where it bolted to the barrel due to the Suzuki frame single down tube ran in front of the exhaust outlet, i used the Yamaha manifold capped off which was a tube 3Omm long capped at the end with a slot cut in the side 3Omm by about 7Omm curved, a rectangular to round adapter was welded over this slot, the round end of which went straight into the side of the RM expansion chamber, the G pipe had been cut off and the end capped off, the round pipe entered the expansion chamber about 5Omm above where it was capped. The engine had been ported by someone nothing too aggressive tho, when i ran the bike i was amazed at how much top end power it had, it was like a motor crosser, revved so hard the float bowl couldnt keep up, this was a super short pipe transformed the power, a mate of mine who does grass track racing with his lad has a variable length front pipe on his little stroker, he can move the power round to suit the track conditions. THE PIPE IS KEY.
I actually thought the bike with an exhaust like that would run like a bag of shit but i just wanted to get it running so i bodged it really, how wrong i was it was a match for the old Maico 49O up to a point.
I think its great cant wait to see it spin
Very interesting, keep rolling, I was going to ask about a rooster bottle, I fitted one on my 125, with fibre reeds and an expansion pipe and skimmed head, this smoothed out the power band, so much so I locked up the small end bearing in the end.
Gillar olles brorsa 🤘🤘🤘
This is good "filler" content, while the main content needs time to come out, this is just as interesting in my opinion. Looking forward for more!
for sure, makes undestard whole thing :D
Patience, this is a culmination of years of work and experimentation.
filler? this is golden knowledge.
@@darealkosmo Thats why i put " " around filler :)
I like this content just as much as the rest. Right up my alley.
You are the gale banks of 2-strokes, thank you for sharing your hard earned knowledge. Been watching your channel for years.
I can just imagine the faces on the kids at your kindergarten while you stand at the white board explaining the fundamentals of two stroke tuning. Awesome explanation, thanks.
Theory lessons is nice. Thanx!
I love this kind of explanation/education - and you do it really well... i guess you are used to explain stuff to all the kindergarden kids at work 😊
Probably teaching the kids about two strokes everyday :D
@@k-h469 🤣🤣🤣👌
Proof ya wanna know something teach it!
keep going man
its fun to tinker on these small cc 2 strokes cos when u do something ringht it will be a noticable difference compared to a big 125 or 250 cc cos they run very good anyways. I have a honda automatic PXR 50 cc with a Polini 70cc sylinder and have made my own exhaust to make it run better. then I took a proma from honda mb5 and changed it to fit and it made a better powerband. reed inlet area was tiny tho so I removed it and put a honda mt5 21 carb and big reed to fit with this homemade adapter inlet plate wich allowed the entire hole in the crankcase that was meant to host the original reeds to be used and now it runs way better cos it can flow more fuel and air. A buddy has this roller bench in the ground to measure horse and torque on cars but he also masured his moped. i need to get mine measured cos im sure it should be 10horses in this one now ;)
I really appreciate this. I started this series pretty late and didn't get any of the background.
So y not watch older episodes? It’s All up here..
dude I'm willing to bet you could teach a college class.
Thanks for taking the time to explain to all of us cheering you on what exactly it is we are watching.
Have actually learnt a lot about 2 strokes, nothing wrong with the way you explain things. Keep them coming !!!
I'm the one that really doesn't like listening nor reading theories (because of the issues remembering most of things said/read, i'm that practical kind of dude), but this one is the one i am into and that made me want more of it. Looking forward for the main project and also the filler content in between while there's a waiting process in background! ;) Great job!
Thank you so much for such an amazing video, I loved it and I learned a lot,
When you tune the exhaust pipe, it can be a pipe whose length you can adjust. With a pulse jet motor, it was found. Perhaps the water hammer phenomenon was discovered first. Intake resonance is also important.
The amount of water through the openings tells you how efficient they are. You can use wax to change shape.
Interesting idea..
Ootteko sukua
@@0nniaho En tunne sukuani yhtään nimeltä.
If intake resonance and exhaust resonance could be tuned according to rpm and throttle position in real time? I guess the throttle does change intake resonance. Tuned to a root and a fifth?
Is there a dynamometer test to proof your engine is the most powerful 50cc 2 Stroke engine in the world? Don't explain me, show me! Can't wait for you to prove it!
Not yet, but I've got a dyno...
Still confused, but on a higher level. 👍
Thanks! I wish I would have known 10% of that when I tuned my moped 40 years ago.
Its going to be one of the most powerful 50cc single 2 strokes out there. It will also be a great way to show how tuning purely for peak power at max rpm creates an engine that is of no use except for a single niche area. (lsr) as even in drag racing you need power in the top 3rd of each gear to maximise acceleration.
Its an amazing testbed/means of exploring ideas and a LOT of what you have done here will find its way into other engines. Taking the parts of the build that will benefit them in their role, the same way MotoGP and F1 you see parts of their design migrate to road cars. (VVT, small displacement turbo's, Active Aero etc)
I'm loving the walk through and explanation 9f each thing you are trying!
it wont
@@alancollard8939 I suspect it will be one of the most powerful 50cc motors of its number of cylinders and displacement around in its final form.
The rest of the LSR bikes are up there.
Lo9king at the other powerful 49cc bikes (looking at at the crank figures to eliminate gearbox vs cvt vs direct drive)
Honda RC115 was a twin cylinder and 15hp so irrelevant in comparison to this motor, The Single Cylinder RC110 was 9.5 so less powerful than the last dyno'd motor and revved to only 14.5krpm vs this 20k. Also it only gained that 9.5hp from a 9 gear gearbox which is going to be more efficient and deliver more power than the CVT.
The suzuki triple was 19hp but again 3 cylinders and 14 years with the parallel twins being about 15hp
The Woelfe engineering Axairo ISN'T a 49cc engine, it is a rotary and given how rotary engines work you can play fuck fuck games with the cc that is claimed. An RX7 can be registered in the UK as a 1300cc engine and the Norton rotary measurements varied between 600cc and 1800 depending how it was measured and this one is when measured properlytaking into account the rotary system and how it works is 300cc. That is 44.25 at 8750rpm but again it isn't a 50cc engine so it is irrelevant.
So most powerful 49cc single cylinder two stroke is both a reasonable target and something he has a decent chance for being in the top 5 out there.
Once he's got it dialed we could potentially have a two cylinder model, won't be 50cc but will have the torque to blow your pants off.
@@jediknight1294 I'm surprised no one has made comparisons against the 50cc water cooled minimoto engines. The IAME M-50 dyno's around 16.5hp at the rear wheel (stock), going through a centrifugal clutch. I've personally seen a SPS bottom end, with a BZM cylinder redline to over 20k rpm. Crank power estimated around 20hp.
Considering exhaust port area is one of the most limiting factors, the 360 degree exhaust port with fewer bridges certainly gives it the potential to be quite literally the most powerful gasoline 2t (per cc, if that's not obvious).
This kind of videos are the sole reason started watching you. Keep up the good work.
Pretty good damn video you explained you're theory on the most powerful two stroke excellent job well done I enjoyed this video
There is no confusion. Nice explanation of your work. You are right on, about everything you explained. I wasted over 1000 gallons of water checking the flow porting, Bultaco's, CZ's and Yamaha's back in the mid 1970s (Also a garage full of pistons and sleeves).
VERY informative! Just for giggles, "mach" would be "trans-sonic". Worthy of note is your bulges, exit, and adaptor taper form a venturi, which promotes that transition from "low pressure high velocity to high pressure low velocity" at both inlet and outlet... well designed and thought out!
It's great stuff keep up the good work really like your videos I was doing this kind of stuff in the early 70s to make Mach 3s fly. Technology has changed tremendously. Good luck with the build
Cleared up some confusion?!!! Ummm, haven’t come across any video that goes into such detail with a 2 stroke. I bet someday soon, you’ll get picked up for some R & D. Changing so much that’s worked for decades, may be on to something.
Bring it on, you do well and have gained so much , it will be interesting. And if you want good low altitude dry lake runs come to Australia speed week,in March by DLRA , but wait till after Covid
That was fantastic thank you. I know you have explained this before but not with such insight. Thanks again 👌
loved this !! 0,8mach is subsonic and supersonic at 1.2 mach sea level i believe 👌
If you had two exhaust chambers 60 degrees apart have the first one open sooner with a longer chamber. The second one opening later with a shorter chamber so the wave can come back sooner because of it's shorter timing of opening and closing. This should give a longer time or duration for the exhaust and wave length back to the cylinder.
Great work ! What do you think about the design of the Bidalot 50 WR cylinder ?
Thanks man, I look forward for new videos! 😉
Great job!
Thank you a great teaching video full of answers to difficult questions.
Considered dimple porting the whole or some parts of the crankcase?
New to 2 strokes my self very informative video thanks!!
I think your path parallels Jaco Pastorius in a way. He, like you, claimed early on that he was the best at his craft(playing bass) with confidence. From there, he went on to prove it. Of course playing bass is subjective, but he definitely one of the greats. Similarly, Babe Ruth pointing his bat to center field prior to sending a home run hit that direction. You know your shit, confident in your abilities. Given the accessibility to resources and technologies, your abilities and drive will not settle for less. Btw, I’m sporting a “Resonance “ shirt as I type. 🐿🗯...resonance! 😉🤘🏼👍🏻
This was awesome. Had to laugh at the white board. Even Matt doesn’t bother with one anymore but I tend to think that’s probably so he doesn’t have to get off his chair😉😁
This is amazing. Thank You very much, if words can express how valuable Your knowledge is.
Im serious ablout 1 thing, I wanna build 900cc 2t twin engine then have all needed mashinery & finances.
I would do like A.Milliard. Cut the casing of the gearbox and clutch from 1 liter superbike engine, and weld to it my own made part of the engine to one.
Maybe i will use cr500 pistons and rods.
But the most important part is this that you are doing. By engineering cylinders, heads, chamber by your knowledge, i could reach much better performing engine.
Like stock cr500 has 60hp, so tuned by Your way, maybe possible to hope for 75horses or more. So 2 cylinders maybe peak could be 150+hp, which would be very respectifull using 2 pistons only.
Why 2 pistons, not 4. Is becouse the crankshaft to make is easier, yet engine is narrower. To make 4 pistons crank and cases is really would be very difficult.
Yes it is very difficult to make a 4 cylinder 2 stroke I tried it with weed eater jugs and pistons made a crank and block wouldn’t start without ether and spinning it to 4K rpm I think the case volume was way to high also it “idled” at 5000 rpm any lower and it would die I’m pretty sure it’s been scrapped by now I wish 2strokestuffing was around when I built that at 13 yo
Take a look a snowmobile engines. This year's skidoo 850 twin cylinder is putting out 165hp. Pretty neat design!
165horses would be very respectifull. Yet im wondering how cvt belt on them holds such a performance.. Its mystery for me honestly..
And why im serious to build 2 stroke engine too in future? Is becouse i would like to do custom-classic-racing motorcycles not only for myself but to sell it too.
Just becouse 2 strokes much more valuable, and exotic compared to 4strokes. Especially high capasity 2strokes almost dont exist anymore novadays.
Like ronax500, sutermmx500, these motorcycles goes for sell for really big money. I wouldnt do that that expensivelly coz i think its ridiculous..
I see here a some business opportunity, building custom motorcycles. But yet i would like to build differently, to have not 4t but 2t engine. 4t you can get on 'every corner' cheaply, 2t is a rare thing now, especially with output like 150hp+, yet enough reliable if using 900-1000cc engine capasity.
Thanks! This was good info. Please continue with other topics, transfers, case, pipe etc
We don't want upset exhaust gases :-) Thanks for explaining I have done everything wrong on my moped back in the seventies:-)
Same!
You gone absolutely mental on #resonance. appreciate it 😀
good stuff cuz eye kno nuthin about 2 strokes boss!
🤘😎
I will have to say, we have regularly gone to 78% on street Kawi triples with bores as large as 74mm. And with some creative chamfering 80%
👍 Exactly, that old rule of thumb is conservative. I've seen people go 80% + on 40mm bores.
Thank you for teaching zenpai master 🙏
Great refresher, I've been watching since the beginning but it was good to bring it all together and keep the reasoning freash. Keep up to great content 👍
Genius! This is real tuning .For two stroke it's precise prediction .Keep on moving to the peak of success. Am fond of 2strokes. . . !Am still learning. .
excellent video i didnt understand half of it but its nice that you are demonstrating your choices and why you made them the way you did. keep up the work its awesome to see you are in a good flow and producing a lot of video's keep up the good work
Bra och informativ
I love your work and I’m not a expert but I feel like if he’s still having issues with rings failing after the right nickel plating it’s do to how wide the port is with no bridges I just have a hunch
just look at it why wouldn’t it be the most powerful two-stroke engine ever
Lol
@@trashtotransportations5857 did you lol at your own comment?
@@macelius i thinks he is resonate
Very interesting to learn the thought process behind all of this. Thanks for sharing.. 👍💪
Careful, your teaching me things while thought I was just having fun!
Wow, your mind is incredible. I have only recently found a love for 2 strokes after inheriting a mobylette from a family member. Love your channel. Can't wait for the next video.
😁👍 Moby's are the most beautiful mopeds in my eyes!
What about a bridge formed from a high efficiency NACA airfoil shape? Seems like it's possible to have your cake and eat it too. 3D printing would make this a lot easier to accomplish than other methods, no?
If a bridge has to be present, what you describe is the way to go👍
I just gave this some thought, does the resonance from the pipe create a vacuum to help suck the next intake charge in?
👍
That was a realy interesting video good job👍🏻👍🏻
373/5000
hi I believe in your idea and from what I can see it seems to work. but what I start to think about is when the engine gets really hot when the parts expand by the heat. so I know a liquid that has worked very well for me when I have ridden motocross it is Evans Waterless Coolant it can be a good product to check out in the future.
thank you for allowing everyone to accompany you on your journey
Evans waterless will actually cause the engine to run warmer (propylene glycol has a lower thermal capacity), it just prolongs the time before issues becomes more apparent.
This engine will mostly run on drag strips and dynos, so cooling isn't going to be a large issue anyways (better to run an ice box).
Just an addition to the Wobbly duct: it is going down to 75% of the area of the exhaust port over a length of 1.5-2x the bore diameter. Worked great for me to modernize a relatively outdated kart engine. Together with some other tricks that people with more knowledge than me came up with.
👍 Great addition!
I'm seeing the whole point here is to maximize resonance as to overcharge the cylinder right at exhaust closing in the compression stroke. Kinda like supercharging, but just using timed exhaust waves. What I see is if you do the porting and everything correctly you could have massive amounts of fresh fuel in the exhaust that might not fully get returned into the cylinder and be burnt. I don't think this is a concern on a 100% race engine though. For a commercial use engine these considerations are a compromise, but a pure all out let's see just how much power we can get out of it aren't. Curious to see how it ends.
👍 Yep, won't have the lowest emissions ever... My next project will be much worse tho...
How do you calculate intake resonance? Crankcase volume and intake length?
newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/Helmholtz.html
Since you're after area, wouldn't defining the port width by % of perimeter make more sense than % of diameter? All this time you've been saying 100% I was expecting to see an exhaust port completely surrounding the piston, not just half.
Yeah, maybe. Traditionaly exhaust port width is always stated in relation to bore diameter, that's why.
He needs to collar with engineering explained to compensate for his lack of whiteboard.
😂👍
Super informative :-)
Really like the in depth videos, i had no idea about bulges and what they did, but thats a nice explaination
I could sit and watch and listen to you for hours I've learnt so much from you mate keep it up and I've no doubt it will be the most powerful two stroke 👍
Hi! I think the piston is to heavy, I'll tell you about that earlier but with no response, what do you think about that?
It's actually a hair lighter than a comparable "normal" piston.
I just want to mention after ignition the combustion/ exhaust gasses are turbulent anyway!
True. Maybe turbulence isn't too much to worry about after all, mostly the area.
Has anyone tried an elliptical shaped piston instead of a round piston? It seems like the perfect shape to maximize port size.
Interesting subject!
About your exhaust flange design, don't you think it allows the hot exhaust gases back in to the cylinder a bit too easily? Most high performance engines tend to have a bit of a one way valve in there to stop the flow back in to the cylinder. Maybe something like this would work better: drive.google.com/file/d/1eTLgWceQeTydXl1jK_P02WgyznhdGEpN/view?usp=sharing
I think with the duct being long and low volume what gets pushed back in should be mostly fresh charge, but could be wrong. Could do a comparison when things are working 👍
Awesome videos dude. I learn something new everytime I am on your channel. And your craftsmenship is admirable. Good luck with the rest of the build 👀👌
Perfect video keep em coming
How do the land speed regulators confirm the displacement(cc) of the engine on site, or is it a system of good faith and believing your engineering data on the day?
Ibelieve they measure the amount of cc's by measuring exhaust flow and rpm. not 100% sure though
If you're fortunate enough to go over a record the vehicle is impounded and the engine is torn down and measured.
Yep.
I wanna buy this new 2 stroke engine for my motorized bike !!! Can't wait to see this new High-Tech gadget in action !!!
Bra lektion 👍 ser fram emot fler.
Why did you choose 50cc? Isn’t it easier to hit records with a 70cc for example
At 0.8 Mach it is sonic, Mach 1and over is super sonic 👍
Thanks.
Hi, next time ,,blackboard and chalk,,please.
👍 +1 I was frantically trying to find a suitable chalkboard before recording, next time!
Awesome video! My favorite yet!
Question: why do you want a certain velocity in the exhaust duct?
To get the spent gases out as fast as possible, but stay away from shock wave territory.
I hope you're teaching those children in kindergarden all about this too. Also let them know it only gets more confusing and harder as you get older. Also, those girls who play with the plastic tea set... I think you should cut ports in tghe teapot and explain why the tea pours out of the ports, so you can fix it by adding an exhaust pipe and carb to it.
It was great to learn about the thinking behind what you have done. Keep it up!
This video was super helpful and really loaded with knowledge!
I know more about 2 cycles than the average person, I have worked on them, modified them for years, but your depth of understanding and methods of explaining is mind blowing. I have read lots of old literature from the 1960s and 1970s explaining some of this stuff, but I find it really had to retain information like this.
The basic principals stick with me, but when I'm trying to put any of it to actually building something, I do a LOT of rechecking, reading and google searching to see if what I remember is correct.
Anyway, Cheers ! Great video ! More of this please !
I hate to be a Negativ-Nils-med-dårlig-Pils
Thats why I ride my skuter and flex my mopedskuter-Skills
😂👍
Question about exhaust port diameter. when working out pipe diameters at diffuser to belly section usually 2.2 - 2.5 X exhaust port diameter. Is the exhaust port diameter the area of the exhaust port converted into a circular dimension, or the diameter of the header pipe?
Effective port area converted into a circle. Providing a good duct, the header should start at this diameter too.
@@2STROKESTUFFING thank you.
I believe in you!
Love watching your design and manufacturing work but explanation of the design is brilliant I look forward to seeing the next one.Particulary looking forward to seeing the transfer and inlet but especially transfer as I am trying to work out if you're using schnurle porting or not!
Thanks! It's Schnurle.
@@2STROKESTUFFING brilliant thanks I look forward to seeing your next video
Check this out
Brilliant explanation. Always had expansion chambers on my 2 strokes, had a rough idea how they worked but this way very detailed.
Good stuff 👌👌
More nitro!!!!!!!
Awesome video!
I understand the reason for trying this. To learn. But for one second do you not think some of the Largest 2 stroke companies in the world with 100's of millions of $ in engineers and research havent already tried all of this and more most likely .
Not my way of thinking.
Alot off inventions is made by smart people such As mr 2 stroke here. Big company engineers sometime Get stuck And struggles to think new ways.
Lots more please. very informative !
WOW my 2STROKE IQ just went up after STUFFING your teaching in my brain, great job. I feel more equipped to understand the re-engineering of your engine design. Keep up the great work, you are really blessed with a gift to be at the level of knowledge you have and able to teach your subscribers. Thank you from NC, USA Phil 4:13