Don’t know if Shawn will see this, but it’s always a honor and pleasure to hear him speak about the gaming industry. It’s greatly appreciated when former high profile executives share knowledge.
Shawn would talk so passionately whenever he was interviewed as did Shuhei Yoshida. Aside from being business men, they were both excited to contribute to SONY & the gaming industry at large. Both are retired now but certainly not forgotten. Nice interview.
A special thanks again to Shawn Layden for sparing me his precious retirement time! TIMESTAMPS 00:00 - Intro 01:02 - Why Playstation Used Numbers For Each Console Iteration 03:26 - Being The Fix It Guy At Sony/What Motivates Shawn 05:45 - Building A Reputation 07:00 - Doing 18 Hour Days During The PSN Hack 09:00 - Why Sony Is So Good At Marketing 13:01 - How FOMO Is Used In Marketing 14:00 - Why Sony Now Releases 1st Party Games On PC/Initial Pushback 15:50 - Why Astro Bot Was Shawn’s 2024 GOTY 18:30 - Why The Japanese Are So Good At Game Design 21:57 - Western Games Are Too Big In Scope/Dev Costs Come From Salaries 23:05 - Why So Many Game Studios Are On The West Coast Of America/Environmental Costs 24:57 - Game Devs Commute Times Create Major Sunk Costs/Working From Home 28:30 - Shawn Pushed Realistic Graphics Well Acknowledging It’s Not Sustainable 30:52 - How Sony Prices Games & When To Drop The Price 33:40 - Concords Failure/Why Games As A Service Was Popular And No Longer Isnt 37:31 - Why The PS6 Won’t Be Discless 40:00 - Launching Handhelds Are Hard/Why The PS Vita Failed 43:00 - Sony Characters Won’t Appear In Super Smash Bros 44:20 - Why Playstation All-Stars Didn’t Sell Well 46:48 - Q+A - How Will The Market Of Fortnite/Roblox Players Change As They Get Older 49:28 - Q+A - Shawn’s Opinion On Microsoft’s Multiplatform Approach 51:22 - Nintendo Are Best Positioned To Navigate The “Diminishing Returns” Problem 54:18 - Q+A - What Games Did You Think Would Be Big Hits But Weren’t. 58:21 - You Learn More From Failures Than Successes 59:43 - Closing Comments
I've personally never heard that side of PlayStation's success: having Sony music's experience be a part of the publishing/marketing side explains so much why they were so successful. I know it's not just one simple reason why they were a success, but that had to be a huge piece of it
Great Interview. Congrats on the big get! Sony's biggest F up in recent years was not Concord... it was loosing Shawn Layden. He was the last Sony exec who didn't sound like he was reading a teleprompter written by 50 corporate lawyers hell bent on creating substanceless answers.
Ya but I feel working from home, at least in creative ventures, just doesn’t work as well as having everyone in house. I’ve seen it in my working conditions in Graphic Design/commercial printing/sign 3D making. I would imagine that 1000 fold in gaming development. Just look at how incomplete games launch now. And Awesome Interview Shawn
outside of Helldivers 2 (a GAAs game) i haven't seen growth on sales after the games started going to PC, all i've seen is the core PlayStation user upset he pays more for games, pays for subscriptions to play online and missing Only On PlayStation, which was the main differenciator between PlayStation and other platforms... all the value the library of the console had has been completely gone and the negativity about the PlayStation brand has grown substantially... that's why you don't go for people who never cared about you, you make them come to your product, not devalue your product, Nintendo is on the right track and that's why they'll completely dominate console sales over PlayStation, they know their first party is gold.
"completely dominate" lmao. The PS1 and PS2 would be examples of a console actually dominating the landscape and collapsing the sales of their competitors, even killing Sega consoles, etc. The PS5 is selling faster than PS4 and will likely sell 120m+. That wouldn't be possible if Nintendo was doing what you're saying.
I've been a life-long Playstation exclusive a gamer, and I left Playstation consoles entirely due to multiple factors, but it was largely down to their increasing prices and obvious exploitation of their customers with the PS5 generation. From my experience, PC releases of Sony exclusives have allowed a lot of upset console gamers to move to PC, where they have more freedom and better prices for games. The ones left either can't afford it, don't know how, or are fanboys that feel cheated "their" games are releasing on PC. They blame the PC releases for their bad experience on console, rather than Sony for being greedy and risk averse with funding AA games. Games were $90~ 5 years ago, and PS+ was $80, it wasn't such a big deal. But when the console STILL costs nearly 4 figures (in NZ dollars), with fewer hardware features than ever, controllers now cost $50 more and only last 6 months, PS+ is now 50% more expensive with far fewer benefits, PS console exclusives are fewer and father between, and you clearly no longer 'own' your games, and those games cost $50 more (to "buy"). They're driving them to PC on their own, and their fanboys have Stockholm syndrome.
When Yakuza started to come to PC. Playstations fans started moaning & whining how PC gamers will kill Yakuza franchise and how it should stay only on PS. When it comes to PC gaming. Games tend to have long tail. 10 years for now many of games of now and before will continue to making money for Sony & other pubs. While games released exclusive on consoles tend to make big for a week/month and then fall down in months.
Also, if PC gamers cared about the current PS console, then why is there so much backlash when Sony tells them to sign into a PS account? The PS brand hasn't been worth thing after the PS3 era.
I respect Shawn Layden but to say the price of games hasn't changed whilst the price of games has gone up is a little disingenuous! Nowadays companies have all tiers of pricing games and they use psychological tactics to squeeze every penny from the gamer. Yes, maybe the games have got bigger, but let's talk about back in the day, u could buy a game get it home and 99% of the time the game worked great straight out the box. Nowadays we buy a game and 99% of the time the games are unplayable, full of bugs, lootboxes , and any which way to penny pinch the gamer! So yea, games cost more, but the quality has dropped significantly, from the experience to the quality and everything inbetween. Games used to be built rd fun! " we need to make a game that is fun so people enjoy it, and word of mouth will help make it a success. Now, a game is built around monetisation, and in my opinion, business and art never have and never will mesh as a symbiotic partnership. As soon as u introduce monetisation into a game it takes away some of the fun because the game is built around monetisation, and once u say, instead of getting this cool ability or this cool sword by exploration of our game, or beat this boss and u will get the ability to double jump and u get this cool helmet, instead of that we are now gonna just put those things in a virtual store where u put money down and buy it🤑 As soon as that happens so much of the fun and the excitement of exploration of said game is ripped out. It is the corporations that have decided to spend 200 mill on games! Gamers are happy playing a game that cost 5 to 10 mill if it isn't full of psychological tactics to take as much money as they possibly can, and just make a great game! Yes,make the big games too, but that isn't all that gamers are hungry for! We just want fantastic games that don't hit us over the head with monetisation and " buy this, buy that " with everything u do in the game. So yea, games have gone up whilst everything else in the game, and the industry has declined! Not every game or every studio or publisher do this but, it is few and far between to just find a great game u buy, play, enjoy, put down and when finished it burns a great memory into the mind! Almost everything today just leaves a bad taste in the mouth!!!!
I really liked the part about the general Japanese game design philosophy! (Nintendo notwithstanding--Im sure that they take a LOT of their game philosophy out of the emergent gameplay design of games like the GO board game while balancing it with semi-arcade like gameplay...) A. Arcade like moment to moment joy (How much fun can you get out of 100 yen?), arent paced like epic Hollywood style video games B. Small teams C. Attention to detail and not merely focusing on pushing tech for the sake of pushing tech (thats the impression I get) D. Arent overambitious and generally arent aiming for realism/Hollywood like scope (I assume Square-Enix is a major exception to the rule) Makes perfect sense to me! I'm taking down notes!
LMAO! I can't really blame journo's to be honest, my content is easy money for them. I would do the same thing if I was them lol. I don't really have a problem with it, it's only when they frame a narrative to make a dev look bad that I get annoyed with it and also on top of that because they have framed wrong narratives it has cost me guests.
@@KIWITALKZi agree. I always hope that some of the people viewing their content are curious enough to check out the original stuff that people such as yourself produce. A big thanks for the effort you alway put in from across the ditch 👍
Great get. PS4 eventually became my favorite console besides the Gamecube and his team was certainly responsible to get back on track after the PS3 era. I don't understand how Ryan and Hulst got the keys to the company after Layden though, PS5 is like a bad antithesis to PS4...
He says during the pc porting segment that pc gaming wasn't big in the 90s. Yeah, it was. It wasnt as big as all the consoles combined, but it could go head to head with any single platform. Near all gaming genres were invented on PC, during the 80s and 90s and some of the most expensive games ever made at the time were pc only or first games, like Wing Commander or Myst. There were multi million selling PC games each year during the 90s. Though he is right regarding PC being an entirely different market than consoles. People chose PC because of its unique library, its unique inputs, performance and so on. They're not going on a console that has none of that. They're separate audiences to consoles, so releasing previously exclusive console games means adresing a new market, not canibalising your sales, because its not the same people buying
to the point of player times and competing against social media platforms: arent playernumbers in total not constantly increasing year by year? so yeah you might want to take social media usage into account.. but since the NES days gobal player numbers go up steadily.. so you cant just want more and more and more players... thats going to fail eventually..
Most PC players will _NOT_ buy a PS5 for GTAVI. We didn't buy a console for RDR or GTAV... we waited. PC gamers are EXTREMELY patient - especially when we have so many games to play these days, and modern consoles cost so much. GTAVI WILL come to PC at some point, and folks don't mind waiting for it. I think the common thought that PC gamers will flock to PS5 over a Grand Theft Auto is a fairly big misconception. At one time, yes - but not these days. The cost of both software and hardware is so expensive now, and GTA VI has so much competition for people time already on the PC platform. Only folks who might hop over are the GTAV online crowd... and only a small segment of them who can afford too. Most will wait as we always do, even if it's a few years. Again: don't forget how long PC gamers waited for Red Dead Redemption. 🙂↕️🙏
As a PC gamer I just purchased a PSP. Sony has failed to stand out in this generation, a complete 180 from the PS4. They need to admit failure and bring back the handheld market and actually support it with great titles like the PSP and not the Vita
"GTA VI has so much competition" lmao. Publishers are afraid to publish anything anywhere near that game's release which is not normal. PC gamers are not a monolith. You won't buy a PS5 for GTA6 but millions will not want to be left out. Not all are the "patient" type who wait until a game that they really want is €5 on Steam. lol "Modern consoles cost so much". Where did you get this idea from? You can pick up a Series S in the holiday season for barely anything. The gap between the price of a good PC and a console is as big as it's ever been. Getting a PS5 digital for €400 in 2020 was nothing compared to an equivalent PC. And PC gamers weren't actually waiting around for 14 years for Red Dead Redemption 1 to come to PC. 🤦♂️ *Such a silly example.* They just thought it would never come. There are some people who will simply never play a console no matter what - that's not the type of person being discussed. The misconception is thinking that every PC gamer is the same as you.
@@C2190 I knew Sony's bot accounts would come in here to protect a failing propaganda by projecting their sheep mentally onto others. And way to like your own comment LMAO
51:22 That was a poorly phrased question. When you ask a question in a confusing way, it can derail an interview. You should work on that. Other than that, good job.
There are a lot of life service games that would have done better if they just stick to a single player game nothing to do with online maybe a little DLCs but no online like competitive crap just a single player experience
Sony need to stop wasting their money porting their AAA first party timed exclusives to PC where they sell in low volumes or succumb to piracy. PS5 Pro is more powerful than a better than average specified PC as far as the Steam database is concerned. Sure, there are already more powerful rigs which hobbyists like to configure and overclock and defrag and clean and administrate, but PS5 Pro is getting all PS4 and PS5 games and can stream more quality earlier generation titles through PS+ than are available in GAME PASS ULTIMATE and are now getting all AA XBOX games should anyone want them. They don't need to own an XBOX anymore to ensure they don't miss out on the occassional exclusive as there are no more XBOX exclusives. They aren't part of some Master Race by owning a gaming PC because in most cases the PS5 Pro is far better and much more pleasant to use. If you already own an XBOX SERIES X there is no reason to wait to upgrade it to any next-gen XBOX home console and miss out on the quality of PS5 Pro. There is also no reason to try to sell your X for a pittance as there is such a glut of trade ins forcing the price down. The time to sell your X was when Phil Spencer said four games were going to PlayStation. Many did listen to the subtext of that statement and realise they needed to get ahead of the devaluation of the XBOX brand and sell their console if they weren't set on holding onto it forever. If you own an XBOX SERIES X it really makes sense to keep it around as a retro console as it does a really good job of upgrading your old disc based games from every generation in your collection. Unfortunately, XBOX GAME PASS ULTIMATE is ending in 2028 which is why Microsoft stopped its customers from stacking 36 months of XBOX GAME PASS ULTIMATE last September as they didn't want to have to refund a slew of accounts. Consequently, their exit strategy will be hardware first (so no next-gen home console, and they are just lying about making that to keep people optimistic about the platform and not migrating elsewhere), followed by this current gen Day & Date subscription model which was a terrible idea from the start which is financially unsustainable unless they gut the quality of every IP that they acquire and didn't originate (so expect less frequent titles with worse quality rather than a major price hike - i.e. less for the same money, but just enough reason to renew every three months and a financial penalty if you stop autorenewal). 12 months x $19.99 = 12 x 20 = 240 p.a. then 210 / 3 = 70 so you have $30 spare for an indie title and Sony aren't publishing that many AAA games annually anyway. Most games are multiplatform titles which are not going to be Day & Date on GAME PASS ULTIMATE so you have to pay 70+ for each of them. _GTA VI_ isn't coming to PC for a whole year and will run best on PS5 Pro compared to XBOX SERIES X due to the stupid Parity Clause which holds back optimisations as all titles must also run on the XBOX SERIES S which is actually weaker than the previous generation's XBOX ONE X. So, I hope Sony stop putting games over on PC as they lose the incentive which lures potential purchasers of their hardware which locks them into their ecosystem which they gain all those royalties off the sales of third party titles. Spend less money on game development. Several hundred million dollars for _Spider-Man 2_ is just silly. Keep it below $200,000,000. Stop making all Live Service games like _CONCORD_ as that market is saturated and very hard to break into when it is based around Free2Play titles. By saving money you can lower the cost of games back to $60 as $70 won't fly in this post Bidenomics recession. By all means bring back episodic paid DLC which is more the model that _Destiny_ used to fund its servers, and with 90% of the game's programming, animation and assets already produced for the launch version, extra episodes could be made, but as self contained side stories rather than as a never ending soap opera - so, _Infamous: First Light_ and _The Last of Us: Left Behind_ were likely cheaper and safer bets than completely original titles with all new assets/animations. However, as the games aren't going to other platforms don't have sales of these titles and make it clear that the price won't be going down. This will deter people from waiting for sales, and they will be more inclined to buy closer to launch. The videos of gameplay in the PS Store are of too low quality and need improvement as it is a big financial committment for many, and the option to try before you buy would be great even if it was a tutorial and a vertical slice of representative gameplay with a narrative hook which was strong enough to make you want to buy it there and then and continue all of you trophy progression to see what would happen to these characters you had empathised with. How long this free trial period would be would depend on the developer but I think it would take away the fear many have that they will waste money on a game that is great, but doesn't suit them personally, and they can't tell it won't be their cup of tea from watching it being livestreamed on Twitch.
Sony's games sales on PC aren't wastes of money, Horizon sold over 2 million copies in a year, and God of War sold nearly 1 million in a couple of months. The PC gaming market is grown faster than the console market (with only mobile exceeding it, but that doesn't exactly count). Piracy on PC is almost non existent now, and people who pirate games instead of paying, weren't going to buy an expensive console, pay for PS+ and pay 50% more for the game on console, anyway... Console fanboys love to use PC piracy as a reason not to release games on PC, which makes no sense since consoles can be jail-broken and games are often easier to pirate on console, as they don't need to be cracked like they do on PC, to run on a jail-broken system, and you're not risking viruses like you are on PC.
@____uncompetative Agree with your sentiments, Shawn talks a lot about FOMO but at the same time Sony seem to be killing the FOMO on their platform. Quite simply Sony games on PC just undercuts the need for their console and the vocal minority of PC players in comment sections are quite happy for that to happen as they prefer to give their money to NVIDIA, AMD and Asus. PC gamers don't like paying the money required to deliver these AAA games. The level of piracy for Sony games on torrent sites completely outstrips the sales they make on storefronts by many millions. I'll just say as a PS5 customer I've hardly bought any PS5 games this generation compared to previous generations partly because of this strategy. If you are going to undercut me as a customer by putting your games on PC for free a year later then I'll go for the free option. Following Microsofts strategy or listening to comments sections (Mostly PC users) will lead you to disaster, Do what Nintendo does and protect your brand and section of the market rather than dilute yourself. Also the minimal sales you get isn't worth the negative press you get from the fickle PC users who seem to want to complain about anything.
@ There was a bit of speculation Sony would implement a free to download launcher for their PC ports and take them off Steam to save on the 30% royalty fee they impose for their launcher. However, I think this would also be a bad idea as the reaction to the Epic launcher was for a lot of entitled PC gamers to throw their toys out of the pram and demand those games were put onto Steam rather than have the inconvenience of having to remember where their games were located. Denuvo protected titles now get cracked within hours of release, so the only way Sony could get around this is to stream their games to the PS Portal and market that as a companion to the desktop. However, PC gamers are more likely to buy the upcoming Nintendo Switch 2 as their companion console, simply due to FOMO. So, hopefully the new leadership at Sony don't repeat the mistake XBOX made when they put _Quantum Break_ onto PC and took away all reason to own their console for its exclusives. Although, it still had some this was a clear signal that they could all become multiplatform titles eventually. Initially, they were arguably Microsoft exclusives, but when Phil Spencer put 4 onto the PlayStation last year it signalled the beginning of the end of XBOX, and the quality of XBOX games have arguably improved quite a bit because those on PS5 expect more for their money than what slop XBOX fanboys championed with _Redfall._ PC will still have _Star Citizen_ to lord over consoles for anyone who has the God Box needed to run that game. It is apparently 60% feature complete and as they are now polished the 100% feature complete _Squadron 42_ campaign and they have written that very technically challenging server meshing code (which allows for _STARFIELD_ like object persistence but in multiplayer), they can put a lot more of their staff into creating places of interest and linking them with scripted missions, as it currently lacks gameplay loops and relies on being a multi-crew make your own fun sandbox somewhat like _Sea of Thieves._ That said, _Star Citizen_ will inevitably come to PS6 as Cloud Imperium Games will need the revenue to keep themselves afloat. This could work quite well with PSVR 2 which is plenty good enough hardware and does not need an update. Those who enjoy _Microsoft Flight Simulator_ on Sony's console will be in the market for _Star Citizen._ It will be a niche market of "single title hobbyist enthusiasts" but it will sell quite well, and they will do okay from all the Microtransactions they have put into it.
and everbodys attentions spans are dropping? while @ the same time people have 1000s of hours in elden ring and baldurs gate? come on! thats a VERY simplistic appraoch to look @ things.. its jsut not the truth generally speaking..
It's nice to see him acknowledge the shrinking offerings of Racing games (specifically fun arcade and simcade)... The number of offerings since the PS2 and PS3 generations, has fallen off a cliff. Things are only just now picking up again. Sony and Microsoft are partly to blame in my opinion, with not supporting smaller studios with racing titles. I think Sony got burned by Driveclubs longer than hoped development, and poor initial reception (now a cult classic), and Microsoft dumped Project Gotham due to the success of Forza. But the smaller, more focused, passion driven racing games like Driveclub and Project Gotham are what racing game fans really love! Forza and GT have become very clinical, with much of the fun sucked out, forced always online requirements, almost no effort pit into their career mode, with the more aggressive FOMO and monetisation crammed in. A lot of racing gamers have just left console entirely, because of the variety and freedom of PC racing games.
The industry needs more leaders like Shawn and Shu. People who care about games and who cut their teeth building the PlayStation brand
Don’t know if Shawn will see this, but it’s always a honor and pleasure to hear him speak about the gaming industry. It’s greatly appreciated when former high profile executives share knowledge.
Shawn would talk so passionately whenever he was interviewed as did Shuhei Yoshida. Aside from being business men, they were both excited to contribute to SONY & the gaming industry at large. Both are retired now but certainly not forgotten. Nice interview.
A special thanks again to Shawn Layden for sparing me his precious retirement time!
TIMESTAMPS
00:00 - Intro
01:02 - Why Playstation Used Numbers For Each Console Iteration
03:26 - Being The Fix It Guy At Sony/What Motivates Shawn
05:45 - Building A Reputation
07:00 - Doing 18 Hour Days During The PSN Hack
09:00 - Why Sony Is So Good At Marketing
13:01 - How FOMO Is Used In Marketing
14:00 - Why Sony Now Releases 1st Party Games On PC/Initial Pushback
15:50 - Why Astro Bot Was Shawn’s 2024 GOTY
18:30 - Why The Japanese Are So Good At Game Design
21:57 - Western Games Are Too Big In Scope/Dev Costs Come From Salaries
23:05 - Why So Many Game Studios Are On The West Coast Of America/Environmental Costs
24:57 - Game Devs Commute Times Create Major Sunk Costs/Working From Home
28:30 - Shawn Pushed Realistic Graphics Well Acknowledging It’s Not Sustainable
30:52 - How Sony Prices Games & When To Drop The Price
33:40 - Concords Failure/Why Games As A Service Was Popular And No Longer Isnt
37:31 - Why The PS6 Won’t Be Discless
40:00 - Launching Handhelds Are Hard/Why The PS Vita Failed
43:00 - Sony Characters Won’t Appear In Super Smash Bros
44:20 - Why Playstation All-Stars Didn’t Sell Well
46:48 - Q+A - How Will The Market Of Fortnite/Roblox Players Change As They Get Older
49:28 - Q+A - Shawn’s Opinion On Microsoft’s Multiplatform Approach
51:22 - Nintendo Are Best Positioned To Navigate The “Diminishing Returns” Problem
54:18 - Q+A - What Games Did You Think Would Be Big Hits But Weren’t.
58:21 - You Learn More From Failures Than Successes
59:43 - Closing Comments
Dang, what a big interview! Reggie next?
Possibly, I might wait until a bit after Switch 2's release before I reach out to him.
@@KIWITALKZ makes sense, looking forward to more interviews!
Shawn and Adam Boice are the highlights of PlayStation back in the E3 era.
Fantastic interview and dont give up on this channel.
Shawn layden and andrew house were some of the best to happen to playstation
Shawn Jack and Kaz. Miss those guys.
I've personally never heard that side of PlayStation's success: having Sony music's experience be a part of the publishing/marketing side explains so much why they were so successful. I know it's not just one simple reason why they were a success, but that had to be a huge piece of it
I usually find interviews boring but this one was really good!!! Great interviewer and Shawn had some really awesome responses!
Great interview dude and getting someone like Layden on highlights how well you’re doing.
His perspective is very interesting. I listened to the whole thing.
Huge interview
Thank you for your service Shawn you did an amazing job at playstation we appreciate you
Would love to watch all this when I have a chance, hopefully it isn't taken down! Congrats!
Great interview Kiwi, next time Reggie will need to schedule an appointment with you
Great Interview. Congrats on the big get!
Sony's biggest F up in recent years was not Concord... it was loosing Shawn Layden. He was the last Sony exec who didn't sound like he was reading a teleprompter written by 50 corporate lawyers hell bent on creating substanceless answers.
Ya but I feel working from home, at least in creative ventures, just doesn’t work as well as having everyone in house. I’ve seen it in my working conditions in Graphic Design/commercial printing/sign 3D making.
I would imagine that 1000 fold in gaming development. Just look at how incomplete games launch now.
And Awesome Interview Shawn
Physical is important given how ridiculous the markup is on digital games. Its basically robbery. $30-40 AUD higher on release day.
He's always a pleasant chap to listen to.
outside of Helldivers 2 (a GAAs game) i haven't seen growth on sales after the games started going to PC, all i've seen is the core PlayStation user upset he pays more for games, pays for subscriptions to play online and missing Only On PlayStation, which was the main differenciator between PlayStation and other platforms... all the value the library of the console had has been completely gone and the negativity about the PlayStation brand has grown substantially...
that's why you don't go for people who never cared about you, you make them come to your product, not devalue your product, Nintendo is on the right track and that's why they'll completely dominate console sales over PlayStation, they know their first party is gold.
"completely dominate" lmao. The PS1 and PS2 would be examples of a console actually dominating the landscape and collapsing the sales of their competitors, even killing Sega consoles, etc. The PS5 is selling faster than PS4 and will likely sell 120m+. That wouldn't be possible if Nintendo was doing what you're saying.
I've been a life-long Playstation exclusive a gamer, and I left Playstation consoles entirely due to multiple factors, but it was largely down to their increasing prices and obvious exploitation of their customers with the PS5 generation.
From my experience, PC releases of Sony exclusives have allowed a lot of upset console gamers to move to PC, where they have more freedom and better prices for games. The ones left either can't afford it, don't know how, or are fanboys that feel cheated "their" games are releasing on PC.
They blame the PC releases for their bad experience on console, rather than Sony for being greedy and risk averse with funding AA games.
Games were $90~ 5 years ago, and PS+ was $80, it wasn't such a big deal. But when the console STILL costs nearly 4 figures (in NZ dollars), with fewer hardware features than ever, controllers now cost $50 more and only last 6 months, PS+ is now 50% more expensive with far fewer benefits, PS console exclusives are fewer and father between, and you clearly no longer 'own' your games, and those games cost $50 more (to "buy"). They're driving them to PC on their own, and their fanboys have Stockholm syndrome.
When Yakuza started to come to PC. Playstations fans started moaning & whining how PC gamers will kill Yakuza franchise and how it should stay only on PS. When it comes to PC gaming. Games tend to have long tail. 10 years for now many of games of now and before will continue to making money for Sony & other pubs. While games released exclusive on consoles tend to make big for a week/month and then fall down in months.
Also, if PC gamers cared about the current PS console, then why is there so much backlash when Sony tells them to sign into a PS account? The PS brand hasn't been worth thing after the PS3 era.
@@ElAssoWipe-o because people don’t want to make multiple accounts to play games, sony isn’t special because ea does that same thing
I respect Shawn Layden but to say the price of games hasn't changed whilst the price of games has gone up is a little disingenuous! Nowadays companies have all tiers of pricing games and they use psychological tactics to squeeze every penny from the gamer. Yes, maybe the games have got bigger, but let's talk about back in the day, u could buy a game get it home and 99% of the time the game worked great straight out the box. Nowadays we buy a game and 99% of the time the games are unplayable, full of bugs, lootboxes , and any which way to penny pinch the gamer! So yea, games cost more, but the quality has dropped significantly, from the experience to the quality and everything inbetween. Games used to be built rd fun! " we need to make a game that is fun so people enjoy it, and word of mouth will help make it a success. Now, a game is built around monetisation, and in my opinion, business and art never have and never will mesh as a symbiotic partnership. As soon as u introduce monetisation into a game it takes away some of the fun because the game is built around monetisation, and once u say, instead of getting this cool ability or this cool sword by exploration of our game, or beat this boss and u will get the ability to double jump and u get this cool helmet, instead of that we are now gonna just put those things in a virtual store where u put money down and buy it🤑 As soon as that happens so much of the fun and the excitement of exploration of said game is ripped out. It is the corporations that have decided to spend 200 mill on games! Gamers are happy playing a game that cost 5 to 10 mill if it isn't full of psychological tactics to take as much money as they possibly can, and just make a great game! Yes,make the big games too, but that isn't all that gamers are hungry for! We just want fantastic games that don't hit us over the head with monetisation and " buy this, buy that " with everything u do in the game. So yea, games have gone up whilst everything else in the game, and the industry has declined! Not every game or every studio or publisher do this but, it is few and far between to just find a great game u buy, play, enjoy, put down and when finished it burns a great memory into the mind! Almost everything today just leaves a bad taste in the mouth!!!!
Another jewel of an interview! Great work.
I like that Shawn has a Snorlax in the window.
Great interview. Lots of valuable info.
fascinating interview! Great conversation
I really liked the part about the general Japanese game design philosophy! (Nintendo notwithstanding--Im sure that they take a LOT of their game philosophy out of the emergent gameplay design of games like the GO board game while balancing it with semi-arcade like gameplay...)
A. Arcade like moment to moment joy (How much fun can you get out of 100 yen?), arent paced like epic Hollywood style video games
B. Small teams
C. Attention to detail and not merely focusing on pushing tech for the sake of pushing tech (thats the impression I get)
D. Arent overambitious and generally arent aiming for realism/Hollywood like scope (I assume Square-Enix is a major exception to the rule)
Makes perfect sense to me! I'm taking down notes!
Seeing this early before it gets taken down😂.
And before the journo's pinch all the scoops 😂
LMAO! I can't really blame journo's to be honest, my content is easy money for them. I would do the same thing if I was them lol.
I don't really have a problem with it, it's only when they frame a narrative to make a dev look bad that I get annoyed with it and also on top of that because they have framed wrong narratives it has cost me guests.
@@KIWITALKZi agree. I always hope that some of the people viewing their content are curious enough to check out the original stuff that people such as yourself produce. A big thanks for the effort you alway put in from across the ditch 👍
@pickettfury thanks. I love Australia!!! My favourite country to visit🇦🇺
very intersting to hear what some of the problems where with the design of the vita..
Shawn is just like another brainrot ponies out there 😂
Great get. PS4 eventually became my favorite console besides the Gamecube and his team was certainly responsible to get back on track after the PS3 era. I don't understand how Ryan and Hulst got the keys to the company after Layden though, PS5 is like a bad antithesis to PS4...
He says during the pc porting segment that pc gaming wasn't big in the 90s. Yeah, it was. It wasnt as big as all the consoles combined, but it could go head to head with any single platform. Near all gaming genres were invented on PC, during the 80s and 90s and some of the most expensive games ever made at the time were pc only or first games, like Wing Commander or Myst. There were multi million selling PC games each year during the 90s. Though he is right regarding PC being an entirely different market than consoles. People chose PC because of its unique library, its unique inputs, performance and so on. They're not going on a console that has none of that. They're separate audiences to consoles, so releasing previously exclusive console games means adresing a new market, not canibalising your sales, because its not the same people buying
Great interview and awesome to see another kiwi! Chur bro 🤙
I thought he was dead 😂
Fantastic interview
Warhawk mentioned
to the point of player times and competing against social media platforms: arent playernumbers in total not constantly increasing year by year? so yeah you might want to take social media usage into account.. but since the NES days gobal player numbers go up steadily.. so you cant just want more and more and more players... thats going to fail eventually..
Huge get, great work!!
Most PC players will _NOT_ buy a PS5 for GTAVI. We didn't buy a console for RDR or GTAV... we waited.
PC gamers are EXTREMELY patient - especially when we have so many games to play these days, and modern consoles cost so much. GTAVI WILL come to PC at some point, and folks don't mind waiting for it.
I think the common thought that PC gamers will flock to PS5 over a Grand Theft Auto is a fairly big misconception. At one time, yes - but not these days. The cost of both software and hardware is so expensive now, and GTA VI has so much competition for people time already on the PC platform.
Only folks who might hop over are the GTAV online crowd... and only a small segment of them who can afford too. Most will wait as we always do, even if it's a few years.
Again: don't forget how long PC gamers waited for Red Dead Redemption. 🙂↕️🙏
As a PC gamer I just purchased a PSP. Sony has failed to stand out in this generation, a complete 180 from the PS4. They need to admit failure and bring back the handheld market and actually support it with great titles like the PSP and not the Vita
"GTA VI has so much competition" lmao. Publishers are afraid to publish anything anywhere near that game's release which is not normal.
PC gamers are not a monolith. You won't buy a PS5 for GTA6 but millions will not want to be left out. Not all are the "patient" type who wait until a game that they really want is €5 on Steam. lol
"Modern consoles cost so much". Where did you get this idea from? You can pick up a Series S in the holiday season for barely anything. The gap between the price of a good PC and a console is as big as it's ever been. Getting a PS5 digital for €400 in 2020 was nothing compared to an equivalent PC.
And PC gamers weren't actually waiting around for 14 years for Red Dead Redemption 1 to come to PC. 🤦♂️ *Such a silly example.* They just thought it would never come. There are some people who will simply never play a console no matter what - that's not the type of person being discussed. The misconception is thinking that every PC gamer is the same as you.
I’m going to buy a series s , pennies just to play gta6 . Then I play it again on pc
It's not just the new games, literally every single old game ever made is on PC; whether it's through an official release or emulation.
@@idakev GTA VI is going to be disappointing due to how woke it's going to be though.
the questions could've been refined in a more coherent manner; good luck
The "S" in PlayStation is uppercase
Great stuff
PlayStation has been $hit since PS4. And the wokeness didn't help either.
yes blame everything on woke instead of saying bad writing. be the consumer culture war sheep
@@C2190 I knew Sony's bot accounts would come in here to protect a failing propaganda by projecting their sheep mentally onto others. And way to like your own comment LMAO
@@C2190 I knew you're a bot you had RUclips delete my comment.
51:22 That was a poorly phrased question. When you ask a question in a confusing way, it can derail an interview. You should work on that.
Other than that, good job.
There are a lot of life service games that would have done better if they just stick to a single player game nothing to do with online maybe a little DLCs but no online like competitive crap just a single player experience
And Sackboy Big Adventure gets crapped on again. Still hoping for Knack 3.
Shawn we need you back at PlayStation ASAP!
😂😂😂
W
Sony need to stop wasting their money porting their AAA first party timed exclusives to PC where they sell in low volumes or succumb to piracy. PS5 Pro is more powerful than a better than average specified PC as far as the Steam database is concerned. Sure, there are already more powerful rigs which hobbyists like to configure and overclock and defrag and clean and administrate, but PS5 Pro is getting all PS4 and PS5 games and can stream more quality earlier generation titles through PS+ than are available in GAME PASS ULTIMATE and are now getting all AA XBOX games should anyone want them. They don't need to own an XBOX anymore to ensure they don't miss out on the occassional exclusive as there are no more XBOX exclusives. They aren't part of some Master Race by owning a gaming PC because in most cases the PS5 Pro is far better and much more pleasant to use.
If you already own an XBOX SERIES X there is no reason to wait to upgrade it to any next-gen XBOX home console and miss out on the quality of PS5 Pro. There is also no reason to try to sell your X for a pittance as there is such a glut of trade ins forcing the price down. The time to sell your X was when Phil Spencer said four games were going to PlayStation. Many did listen to the subtext of that statement and realise they needed to get ahead of the devaluation of the XBOX brand and sell their console if they weren't set on holding onto it forever.
If you own an XBOX SERIES X it really makes sense to keep it around as a retro console as it does a really good job of upgrading your old disc based games from every generation in your collection. Unfortunately, XBOX GAME PASS ULTIMATE is ending in 2028 which is why Microsoft stopped its customers from stacking 36 months of XBOX GAME PASS ULTIMATE last September as they didn't want to have to refund a slew of accounts. Consequently, their exit strategy will be hardware first (so no next-gen home console, and they are just lying about making that to keep people optimistic about the platform and not migrating elsewhere), followed by this current gen Day & Date subscription model which was a terrible idea from the start which is financially unsustainable unless they gut the quality of every IP that they acquire and didn't originate (so expect less frequent titles with worse quality rather than a major price hike - i.e. less for the same money, but just enough reason to renew every three months and a financial penalty if you stop autorenewal). 12 months x $19.99 = 12 x 20 = 240 p.a. then 210 / 3 = 70 so you have $30 spare for an indie title and Sony aren't publishing that many AAA games annually anyway. Most games are multiplatform titles which are not going to be Day & Date on GAME PASS ULTIMATE so you have to pay 70+ for each of them. _GTA VI_ isn't coming to PC for a whole year and will run best on PS5 Pro compared to XBOX SERIES X due to the stupid Parity Clause which holds back optimisations as all titles must also run on the XBOX SERIES S which is actually weaker than the previous generation's XBOX ONE X.
So, I hope Sony stop putting games over on PC as they lose the incentive which lures potential purchasers of their hardware which locks them into their ecosystem which they gain all those royalties off the sales of third party titles. Spend less money on game development. Several hundred million dollars for _Spider-Man 2_ is just silly. Keep it below $200,000,000. Stop making all Live Service games like _CONCORD_ as that market is saturated and very hard to break into when it is based around Free2Play titles. By saving money you can lower the cost of games back to $60 as $70 won't fly in this post Bidenomics recession. By all means bring back episodic paid DLC which is more the model that _Destiny_ used to fund its servers, and with 90% of the game's programming, animation and assets already produced for the launch version, extra episodes could be made, but as self contained side stories rather than as a never ending soap opera - so, _Infamous: First Light_ and _The Last of Us: Left Behind_ were likely cheaper and safer bets than completely original titles with all new assets/animations. However, as the games aren't going to other platforms don't have sales of these titles and make it clear that the price won't be going down. This will deter people from waiting for sales, and they will be more inclined to buy closer to launch. The videos of gameplay in the PS Store are of too low quality and need improvement as it is a big financial committment for many, and the option to try before you buy would be great even if it was a tutorial and a vertical slice of representative gameplay with a narrative hook which was strong enough to make you want to buy it there and then and continue all of you trophy progression to see what would happen to these characters you had empathised with. How long this free trial period would be would depend on the developer but I think it would take away the fear many have that they will waste money on a game that is great, but doesn't suit them personally, and they can't tell it won't be their cup of tea from watching it being livestreamed on Twitch.
Sony's games sales on PC aren't wastes of money, Horizon sold over 2 million copies in a year, and God of War sold nearly 1 million in a couple of months. The PC gaming market is grown faster than the console market (with only mobile exceeding it, but that doesn't exactly count). Piracy on PC is almost non existent now, and people who pirate games instead of paying, weren't going to buy an expensive console, pay for PS+ and pay 50% more for the game on console, anyway... Console fanboys love to use PC piracy as a reason not to release games on PC, which makes no sense since consoles can be jail-broken and games are often easier to pirate on console, as they don't need to be cracked like they do on PC, to run on a jail-broken system, and you're not risking viruses like you are on PC.
Why did i this read nonsense?. Sony should port all their games to PC.
@____uncompetative Agree with your sentiments, Shawn talks a lot about FOMO but at the same time Sony seem to be killing the FOMO on their platform. Quite simply Sony games on PC just undercuts the need for their console and the vocal minority of PC players in comment sections are quite happy for that to happen as they prefer to give their money to NVIDIA, AMD and Asus. PC gamers don't like paying the money required to deliver these AAA games.
The level of piracy for Sony games on torrent sites completely outstrips the sales they make on storefronts by many millions. I'll just say as a PS5 customer I've hardly bought any PS5 games this generation compared to previous generations partly because of this strategy. If you are going to undercut me as a customer by putting your games on PC for free a year later then I'll go for the free option. Following Microsofts strategy or listening to comments sections (Mostly PC users) will lead you to disaster, Do what Nintendo does and protect your brand and section of the market rather than dilute yourself. Also the minimal sales you get isn't worth the negative press you get from the fickle PC users who seem to want to complain about anything.
@ There was a bit of speculation Sony would implement a free to download launcher for their PC ports and take them off Steam to save on the 30% royalty fee they impose for their launcher. However, I think this would also be a bad idea as the reaction to the Epic launcher was for a lot of entitled PC gamers to throw their toys out of the pram and demand those games were put onto Steam rather than have the inconvenience of having to remember where their games were located. Denuvo protected titles now get cracked within hours of release, so the only way Sony could get around this is to stream their games to the PS Portal and market that as a companion to the desktop.
However, PC gamers are more likely to buy the upcoming Nintendo Switch 2 as their companion console, simply due to FOMO.
So, hopefully the new leadership at Sony don't repeat the mistake XBOX made when they put _Quantum Break_ onto PC and took away all reason to own their console for its exclusives. Although, it still had some this was a clear signal that they could all become multiplatform titles eventually. Initially, they were arguably Microsoft exclusives, but when Phil Spencer put 4 onto the PlayStation last year it signalled the beginning of the end of XBOX, and the quality of XBOX games have arguably improved quite a bit because those on PS5 expect more for their money than what slop XBOX fanboys championed with _Redfall._
PC will still have _Star Citizen_ to lord over consoles for anyone who has the God Box needed to run that game. It is apparently 60% feature complete and as they are now polished the 100% feature complete _Squadron 42_ campaign and they have written that very technically challenging server meshing code (which allows for _STARFIELD_ like object persistence but in multiplayer), they can put a lot more of their staff into creating places of interest and linking them with scripted missions, as it currently lacks gameplay loops and relies on being a multi-crew make your own fun sandbox somewhat like _Sea of Thieves._
That said, _Star Citizen_ will inevitably come to PS6 as Cloud Imperium Games will need the revenue to keep themselves afloat. This could work quite well with PSVR 2 which is plenty good enough hardware and does not need an update. Those who enjoy _Microsoft Flight Simulator_ on Sony's console will be in the market for _Star Citizen._ It will be a niche market of "single title hobbyist enthusiasts" but it will sell quite well, and they will do okay from all the Microtransactions they have put into it.
Here's the problem. Sony's first party is garbage these days. Nobody wants interactive woke movies like God of War, Spider Man or Last of Us.
and everbodys attentions spans are dropping? while @ the same time people have 1000s of hours in elden ring and baldurs gate? come on! thats a VERY simplistic appraoch to look @ things.. its jsut not the truth generally speaking..
It's nice to see him acknowledge the shrinking offerings of Racing games (specifically fun arcade and simcade)... The number of offerings since the PS2 and PS3 generations, has fallen off a cliff. Things are only just now picking up again. Sony and Microsoft are partly to blame in my opinion, with not supporting smaller studios with racing titles. I think Sony got burned by Driveclubs longer than hoped development, and poor initial reception (now a cult classic), and Microsoft dumped Project Gotham due to the success of Forza. But the smaller, more focused, passion driven racing games like Driveclub and Project Gotham are what racing game fans really love! Forza and GT have become very clinical, with much of the fun sucked out, forced always online requirements, almost no effort pit into their career mode, with the more aggressive FOMO and monetisation crammed in.
A lot of racing gamers have just left console entirely, because of the variety and freedom of PC racing games.
Amazing interview. Always enjoy Shawn's interviews
Unlike Phil Spencer an Don Matrick, Shawn Layden wasn't a failure, under him, Playstation 5 sold more than Xbox Juan, a total flushed
But the PS5 is still $hit though.
Layden has been gone from the company since 2015 😂 how is responsible for selling ps5???
“If you don't like it, don't buy it”. No wonder the game industry is failing because of people like him.
Why he’s telling the truth that’s how it is with everything, people just like to complain
@@initialfd-3716 And we've seen massive layoffs and shut down. Lame try with those 5 alternate accounts to upvote your comment you bot.
Amazing guest. Such a high level man. Cool to see CEOs. Reggie next? ;)
should ask them about censorship on anime games