I have a weird story about this song and what it reminds me of. When I was 19, a friend of my mom's offered me a full time position at a respectable funeral home (at the time, it was the largest in the southeast). I had already been doing removals on weekends for a quick $50 here and there, but the full-time position meant I had to move to my state's capital and actually live at the mortuary five nights a week. I had just flunked out of college, so I had no complaints whatsoever, and I liked the work. The building is in an industrial part of town- basically the slums- and my first night sleeping at the mortuary I actually heard gunshots, sirens, and a woman screaming. I listened to the SH2 soundtrack every night with earbuds in from then on, keeping my cellphone on the nightstand beside me and on its loudest volume in case I got a call. This was my favorite song to listen to, back when it was hosted on LegalSaiga's channel. Even though that part of town was pretty rough (still is), the building was sealed up tight with a good security system- precautions were definitely taken to secure the chemicals they stored in the cold room, but as a result, I couldn't open any windows, and it always smelt of formaldehyde. I ate, showered, and slept with the medical smell of embalming fluid always thick on the air. I never got used to it. One cloudy day in January, I started talking to a pretty girl on myspace I dated for maybe two days way back in middle school. I remember buying her a Mr. Pibb at a school dance, we started "going together", and then a day later we stopped. She and I never said more than a few words to each other the whole time, and all throughout high school, she and I usually found each other standing at the back of the room, away from the crowd, with a sort of silent, mutual understanding about each other. She agreed to come out and see me for some reason, apropos of nothing really aside from some generic, "So this is what I do now." She expressed some interest in seeing where I was living and learning about what I did, but in her languid, almost passive way. I never understood how her mind worked. We met at a local pizza place at about 8pm, eating, saying very little as we sat across from each other in this dark, dilapidated red room on the edge of town. It felt like there was no one in the place except the man at the counter who merely sat there, staring at his knees, slipping glances our way every once in a while. I don't remember what I said, but that girl ended up by coming back to the mortuary with me afterward. Strangely, it was past 10pm by the time we got there; having said only a few things to each other, it felt like there was no possible way all that time could have passed. I made her a bowl of noodles for some reason, which was all I had in the break room pantry, and we later laid down on my tiny twin bed that I slept in, which was just down the hall from the embalming room, sometime after 11:50pm. She kept telling me how scared she was to be there, though in her flat, reserved kind of way. We held each other listening to this song on loop. I asked her what she thought about it, to which she just said it was peaceful. I thought constantly of kissing her, constantly of kissing her, until I fell asleep. When I woke up, she was gone. Truth be told, I had not seen or heard from her since. First it was from embarrassment, thinking might've freaked her out with my weird ambient videogame music and unorthodox life, but years later I couldn't even find her on facebook. We had no mutual friends, not even from high school, and to this day I have no idea what happened to her. It makes no sense because the funeral home had a security system that needed to be deactivated before any doors could open or close. I asked my boss if he had seen a girl leave in the morning, and he said no. It didn't occur to me to ask about the security system they had (which, I would not find out until recently also functioned in the shower I used every day...), and the two men who owned the company had a huge falling out and had to sell the business. I feel weird when I listen to this because it reminds me of her and the silent, placid, mysterious way she was- and it also reminds me of the viscous bruised purple and orange nights downtown with the windows barred, the sounds of violence masked with this smeared, hazy gray ambience.
Wait a second did i get this right? You found a job at a funeral home and used to listen to this soundtrack before u went to sleep, then after that you you met a girl you datedin middle school for 2 days (and you remember her being quiet) on myspace. Then you took her to a pizza place, you ate came home. And went to bed and she was gone 2morrow? Wow that makes me feel a very misterious type of emotion i cant explain. I didnt quite catch what you wrote tho, can you simplify it?
Whenever I listen to this music, It lowers my anxiety, but I'm still depressed. Even calm "happy" sounding music doesn't help with my depression. I feel so lost and out of touch with everything, I wish I wasn't like this. Hopefully you guys are all doing ok, because right now I'm not doing so well.
hey man I know this is 6 months late but I hope you're doing well in life and I hope the best for you dude, I know what you're going through. Trust me.
It's definitely a key factor, a soundtrack can make or break a game for sure. SH is a prime example of where music has lent some soul to those polygons. :)
Man this song makes me remember this creepy ass apartment that I lived in when I was younger with my mom and sister. So I used to play this game a lot on the ps2 since my mom loved playing games and my aunt as well, so I always would play this game even though I had no clue what I was doing. Anyways to the creepy part, so my sister and I would sleep in the same room with separate beds and my mom would be in a different room on the other side from the apartment room. It was a pretty bad apartment with lights not turning on sometimes and a mice infestation, one night I got in trouble for something I forgot of what I did so I slept in the room by myself and I was scared shitless so I tried turning on the bathroom lights since the room light wasn't working and those lights weren't working as well. So I turned on the fan to have noise and after about 5 minutes of being under the covers the fan went out. It was almost pitch black to see anything in my room. After 10 minutes passed I started hearing noises as if a person was having trouble breathing and this was around 2 am I remember, after a while I fell asleep. One other night I was staying up on a friday and was playing silent hill 2, everyone else was asleep and I start hearing noises coming from the room where my sister was sleeping and she wasn't there at all, there was no window in the room either, I checked everywhere and couldn't find her at all. I wasn't really wasn't smart and didn't go to my mom and wake her so I thought she was just messing me I guess. I kept playing and heard more noises and I was getting scared I checked my room again and saw my sister in her bed and tried to wake her, she got mad at me and told me to go away so I did. I still to this day will never forget how scary that apartment was and how much I shit myself from the noises I've heard. It felt like it was silent hill itself, in the daytime nothing happened but when night came everything was going to hell. My mom is another person who'll never forget that apartment as well.
there is just something about silent hill(1-4) that truly sets them apart from any other survival horror title. I was truly crushed to see silent hills get scrapped...
+Richard Foff no problem if you like check on my channel I uploaded "no one love you" looped for 1 hour. I just love to fall asleep with this soundtracks. So peaceful.
I got a letter... The name on the envelope said 'Mary.' My wife's name... It's ridiculous, couldn't possibly be true... That's what I keep telling myself... A dead person can't write a letter. Mary died of that damn disease three years ago. So then why am I looking for her' Our 'special place'... What could she mean' This whole town was our special place. Does she mean the park on the lake' We spent the whole day there. Just the two of us, staring at the water. Could Mary really be there' Is she really alive... waiting for me'
*TOP 10 AUSTRALIAN URBAN MYTHS* 0:00 *song starts playing This Australian urban legend is a myth that's famous among teenagers. There was a guy who worked at Woolworths(it's a supermarket), let's say his name was Michael. So, just like everyday, he finished his night part time job as a checkout staff at 12am. But because the shop's stocks didn't match up with the final amount of revenue they made, the staffs had to leave overtime to run calculations again and check the stock status. It turned out, that the item that was missing was "boneless skinless chicken thighs". The branch manager paid the missing amount of roughly eighteen Australian dollars, told Michael "ah bugger, some wankah musta taken em, I'll check the cctv tomorrow". And Michael left the store to get to his car to drive home. But then as he put the gear on reverse to leave, the car's rear sensor went buzzing so loud it made him wide awake. Since he was a poor college student, he couldn't afford the rear camera on his Prius. "Shit, I thought this day can't et any worse", he said, and went out to check what triggered the alarm. And there it was, a freshly packed pack of boneless skinless chicken thighs just sitting right behind the car menacingly. He was quite dumbfounded to see that, but knowing that it's already paid for and everyone's gone home, he just took them all the way to his rented house and put it in the fridge. Now until here, things look pretty ordinary, some autistic lad could've just chucked the chicken behind the car. But this is when things get pretty bizarre. A few days later, he remembered the chicken thigh being there, and fried it to feed himself during the Saturday night, in which he played fortnite all night long. He was in squad with his mates, and he was excited to use his new skin. As the match was about to begin, he took a bite out of one of the chicken thighs he fried. Nothing out of ordinary, it was a nothing more than delicious chicken thigh... Until he realized that there was something hard in it. He said to the voice chat "Uhh I think there's bone in my boneless chicken thighs, what the f4ck?" His friends said that was probably just a burn, and the stiff object in the chicken wasn't so big, so he continued to chew through them, cracking the thing with his teeth. He was almost done with the dish, and he suddenly felt revolting feeling around his lower chest. He said to the voice chat "Uhh mates I think I'm gonna puke, I'm hella sick right now" one of the team members said "what mate is it coz of that chicken you just finished", Michael replied "Yea man I shouldn' ave tried to be a jew(it means to be stingy) and eat suspicious food out in wild", the team member said "ah ye shit mang just finish this match and throw it all out", Another member said "Did you actually finish a whole pack of chicken thighs that god knows where it's from?" Michael said "y..ea man", "shit dude ya crazy. But then Michael felt a stabbing pain around the lower chest, a pain that made him go screaming. "Shit man ya alright?" "Turn on push to talk for f4ck's sake" "He must be 'aving a huge diarrhea lol", but Michael couldn't even reply because of the agony he was in. Moments after all members muted him, A chicken, without skin and bright red with blood busted out of his chest, spraying blood everywhere. Pretty spooky, ... Jesus christ why the heck did I write this, I was eating boneless skinless chicken, and it had small bone pieces in it, and listening to this gave me the motif for this absolute shitpost. I've never written a story before, so excuse me for the terrible readability
You feel bad. you’ve felt bad for a long time and nobody knows, you’re sure nobody would care if you died and nobody would stop you. You are alone and there is no end. The feeling of being alone, the static in your heart, that fog that clouds your mind and the water than fills your lungs. You feel bad. You are alone. You cannot hide anymore.
Very beautiful and eerily calm. Makes me think of a time when I'd spend WAY too much time in my own blissful thoughts, including ones about a past love, whilst using Fleshlights. Used up so much time in a state of fantasy where time would just disappear. Almost became an addiction. Coping mechanisms and escapism for you...
NEver experienced a Silent Hill game (except P.T.) but I got drawn to this song like a moth to a lantern. Eerily beautiful in its simplicity but with an unsettling undertone waiting to consume me....
_“In my restless dreams, I see that town...Silent Hill. You promised you would take me there again someday...but you never did. Well, I’m alone here, now...in our “special place”...waiting for you...”_
Silent Hill is real, it’s in the psychosphere, the collective consciousness. When you stand in the bathroom mirror, sad or pensive, all the wood and walls and imagery around you can turn an ash grey, stemming out from your hands on the counter top. And the whole world goes to a fog.
in my restless dreams I see that city Tokyo Japan you promise that you will take me there one day but you never did well I'm alone there now in our special place waiting for you
I have a weird story about this song and what it reminds me of.
When I was 19, a friend of my mom's offered me a full time position at a respectable funeral home (at the time, it was the largest in the southeast). I had already been doing removals on weekends for a quick $50 here and there, but the full-time position meant I had to move to my state's capital and actually live at the mortuary five nights a week. I had just flunked out of college, so I had no complaints whatsoever, and I liked the work.
The building is in an industrial part of town- basically the slums- and my first night sleeping at the mortuary I actually heard gunshots, sirens, and a woman screaming. I listened to the SH2 soundtrack every night with earbuds in from then on, keeping my cellphone on the nightstand beside me and on its loudest volume in case I got a call. This was my favorite song to listen to, back when it was hosted on LegalSaiga's channel. Even though that part of town was pretty rough (still is), the building was sealed up tight with a good security system- precautions were definitely taken to secure the chemicals they stored in the cold room, but as a result, I couldn't open any windows, and it always smelt of formaldehyde. I ate, showered, and slept with the medical smell of embalming fluid always thick on the air. I never got used to it.
One cloudy day in January, I started talking to a pretty girl on myspace I dated for maybe two days way back in middle school. I remember buying her a Mr. Pibb at a school dance, we started "going together", and then a day later we stopped. She and I never said more than a few words to each other the whole time, and all throughout high school, she and I usually found each other standing at the back of the room, away from the crowd, with a sort of silent, mutual understanding about each other. She agreed to come out and see me for some reason, apropos of nothing really aside from some generic, "So this is what I do now." She expressed some interest in seeing where I was living and learning about what I did, but in her languid, almost passive way. I never understood how her mind worked.
We met at a local pizza place at about 8pm, eating, saying very little as we sat across from each other in this dark, dilapidated red room on the edge of town. It felt like there was no one in the place except the man at the counter who merely sat there, staring at his knees, slipping glances our way every once in a while.
I don't remember what I said, but that girl ended up by coming back to the mortuary with me afterward. Strangely, it was past 10pm by the time we got there; having said only a few things to each other, it felt like there was no possible way all that time could have passed. I made her a bowl of noodles for some reason, which was all I had in the break room pantry, and we later laid down on my tiny twin bed that I slept in, which was just down the hall from the embalming room, sometime after 11:50pm. She kept telling me how scared she was to be there, though in her flat, reserved kind of way. We held each other listening to this song on loop. I asked her what she thought about it, to which she just said it was peaceful. I thought constantly of kissing her, constantly of kissing her, until I fell asleep.
When I woke up, she was gone. Truth be told, I had not seen or heard from her since. First it was from embarrassment, thinking might've freaked her out with my weird ambient videogame music and unorthodox life, but years later I couldn't even find her on facebook. We had no mutual friends, not even from high school, and to this day I have no idea what happened to her. It makes no sense because the funeral home had a security system that needed to be deactivated before any doors could open or close. I asked my boss if he had seen a girl leave in the morning, and he said no. It didn't occur to me to ask about the security system they had (which, I would not find out until recently also functioned in the shower I used every day...), and the two men who owned the company had a huge falling out and had to sell the business. I feel weird when I listen to this because it reminds me of her and the silent, placid, mysterious way she was- and it also reminds me of the viscous bruised purple and orange nights downtown with the windows barred, the sounds of violence masked with this smeared, hazy gray ambience.
This was actually a great read
that was some of the most Compelling words I've ever seen on RUclips man
That was a good story
cool story bro too bad its fake
Wait a second did i get this right? You found a job at a funeral home and used to listen to this soundtrack before u went to sleep, then after that you you met a girl you datedin middle school for 2 days (and you remember her being quiet) on myspace. Then you took her to a pizza place, you ate came home. And went to bed and she was gone 2morrow? Wow that makes me feel a very misterious type of emotion i cant explain. I didnt quite catch what you wrote tho, can you simplify it?
Whenever I listen to this music, It lowers my anxiety, but I'm still depressed. Even calm "happy" sounding music doesn't help with my depression. I feel so lost and out of touch with everything, I wish I wasn't like this. Hopefully you guys are all doing ok, because right now I'm not doing so well.
hey man I know this is 6 months late but I hope you're doing well in life and I hope the best for you dude, I know what you're going through. Trust me.
I hope you will recover from this soon enough. Best wishes to you!
Same I’m not alright I’m so depressed and it’s hard to live with that…💔my heart is broken
Hey guys! I'm doing better nowadays. Still depressed but I manage alright. I hope you all are doing well 5 years later!
Glad you're fine. Take care 😁
One of the best game soundtracks ever for one of the best games ever.
It's definitely a key factor, a soundtrack can make or break a game for sure. SH is a prime example of where music has lent some soul to those polygons. :)
+IRUKA 1986 yes it is
Except doom 2016 lol
@@Daredevil-lp2zd good joke
Man this song makes me remember this creepy ass apartment that I lived in when I was younger with my mom and sister. So I used to play this game a lot on the ps2 since my mom loved playing games and my aunt as well, so I always would play this game even though I had no clue what I was doing. Anyways to the creepy part, so my sister and I would sleep in the same room with separate beds and my mom would be in a different room on the other side from the apartment room. It was a pretty bad apartment with lights not turning on sometimes and a mice infestation, one night I got in trouble for something I forgot of what I did so I slept in the room by myself and I was scared shitless so I tried turning on the bathroom lights since the room light wasn't working and those lights weren't working as well. So I turned on the fan to have noise and after about 5 minutes of being under the covers the fan went out. It was almost pitch black to see anything in my room. After 10 minutes passed I started hearing noises as if a person was having trouble breathing and this was around 2 am I remember, after a while I fell asleep. One other night I was staying up on a friday and was playing silent hill 2, everyone else was asleep and I start hearing noises coming from the room where my sister was sleeping and she wasn't there at all, there was no window in the room either, I checked everywhere and couldn't find her at all. I wasn't really wasn't smart and didn't go to my mom and wake her so I thought she was just messing me I guess. I kept playing and heard more noises and I was getting scared I checked my room again and saw my sister in her bed and tried to wake her, she got mad at me and told me to go away so I did. I still to this day will never forget how scary that apartment was and how much I shit myself from the noises I've heard. It felt like it was silent hill itself, in the daytime nothing happened but when night came everything was going to hell. My mom is another person who'll never forget that apartment as well.
So ambient and Mysterious..
Thank you Silent Hill music for being a backup when I’m down or whenever I have nothing else to listen to. Thank you.
there is just something about silent hill(1-4) that truly sets them apart from any other survival horror title. I was truly crushed to see silent hills get scrapped...
No matter how messed up Silent Hill is, many of us would still want to visit. Many of us want to find a foggy and peaceful place to have refuge.
the chord progression is so simple yet perfectly expressing the feeling and atmosphere.
I really love his sense of sound making.
The music sounds so ominous. Like you’re in a place that could only exist in your dream. It also sounds sad yet peaceful just like death
i love this tune it's so beautiful
I love how dark and mysterious it sounds while also being so calming. Perfectly fits with the foggy setting of the town
Really helps with headaches. Great ambient soundtrack
When you hear this in the beginning, you know the game will be something special... SH2 ost is still so amazing after 20 years 💜.
Whoa, I just fell asleep on my desk while listening to this in my dark room.
I just put this on repeat and go to sleep. :)
How do you loop it on the phone?
+dawedoors I put it in a Playlist by itself and press loop on the playlist. :)
+Richard Foff thanks
+dawedoors Sorry it took forever to reply. Google+ sucks on my phone.
+Richard Foff no problem if you like check on my channel I uploaded "no one love you" looped for 1 hour.
I just love to fall asleep with this soundtracks. So peaceful.
Yay! :) now my playlist is pretty much complete! You're awesome, thanks!
Perfect song to sleep to on repeat.
Tried it last night and almost couldn't escape my bed..
Just make sure you can escape your room
I’m the type of person that loves that dark, calming, and depressing music. It just makes me feel better and makes things feel euphoric.
I love how ominous this sounds. :) so calming
I got a letter...
The name on the envelope said 'Mary.'
My wife's name...
It's ridiculous, couldn't possibly be true...
That's what I keep telling myself...
A dead person can't write a letter.
Mary died of that damn disease three years ago.
So then why am I looking for her'
Our 'special place'...
What could she mean'
This whole town was our special place.
Does she mean the park on the lake'
We spent the whole day there.
Just the two of us, staring at the water.
Could Mary really be there'
Is she really alive... waiting for me'
Every time I heard this, I remembering my mistakes of the past. It helps me to fix it for the future...
*TOP 10 AUSTRALIAN URBAN MYTHS*
0:00 *song starts playing
This Australian urban legend is a myth that's famous among teenagers. There was a guy who worked at Woolworths(it's a supermarket), let's say his name was Michael. So, just like everyday, he finished his night part time job as a checkout staff at 12am. But because the shop's stocks didn't match up with the final amount of revenue they made, the staffs had to leave overtime to run calculations again and check the stock status. It turned out, that the item that was missing was "boneless skinless chicken thighs". The branch manager paid the missing amount of roughly eighteen Australian dollars, told Michael "ah bugger, some wankah musta taken em, I'll check the cctv tomorrow". And Michael left the store to get to his car to drive home. But then as he put the gear on reverse to leave, the car's rear sensor went buzzing so loud it made him wide awake. Since he was a poor college student, he couldn't afford the rear camera on his Prius. "Shit, I thought this day can't et any worse", he said, and went out to check what triggered the alarm. And there it was, a freshly packed pack of boneless skinless chicken thighs just sitting right behind the car menacingly. He was quite dumbfounded to see that, but knowing that it's already paid for and everyone's gone home, he just took them all the way to his rented house and put it in the fridge. Now until here, things look pretty ordinary, some autistic lad could've just chucked the chicken behind the car. But this is when things get pretty bizarre. A few days later, he remembered the chicken thigh being there, and fried it to feed himself during the Saturday night, in which he played fortnite all night long. He was in squad with his mates, and he was excited to use his new skin. As the match was about to begin, he took a bite out of one of the chicken thighs he fried. Nothing out of ordinary, it was a nothing more than delicious chicken thigh... Until he realized that there was something hard in it. He said to the voice chat "Uhh I think there's bone in my boneless chicken thighs, what the f4ck?" His friends said that was probably just a burn, and the stiff object in the chicken wasn't so big, so he continued to chew through them, cracking the thing with his teeth. He was almost done with the dish, and he suddenly felt revolting feeling around his lower chest. He said to the voice chat "Uhh mates I think I'm gonna puke, I'm hella sick right now" one of the team members said "what mate is it coz of that chicken you just finished", Michael replied "Yea man I shouldn' ave tried to be a jew(it means to be stingy) and eat suspicious food out in wild", the team member said "ah ye shit mang just finish this match and throw it all out", Another member said "Did you actually finish a whole pack of chicken thighs that god knows where it's from?" Michael said "y..ea man", "shit dude ya crazy. But then Michael felt a stabbing pain around the lower chest, a pain that made him go screaming. "Shit man ya alright?" "Turn on push to talk for f4ck's sake" "He must be 'aving a huge diarrhea lol", but Michael couldn't even reply because of the agony he was in. Moments after all members muted him, A chicken, without skin and bright red with blood busted out of his chest, spraying blood everywhere. Pretty spooky, ...
Jesus christ why the heck did I write this, I was eating boneless skinless chicken, and it had small bone pieces in it, and listening to this gave me the motif for this absolute shitpost. I've never written a story before, so excuse me for the terrible readability
You story is excellent! Trust me, I know because I write horror and fantasy stories! Keep up the good work!
So empty, sad but also peace. I guess this song represents what death is like.
In my restless dreams I see that game silent Hill they promised to make a new silent Hill but it never happened.
dethspawnXIII Nice try bro :v
The developers are currently working on two new Silent Hill games!
when I think of silent hill this is what I hear
I love the music in Silent hill. It gives off that feeling of something lost or gone but it's not? dunno
You feel bad. you’ve felt bad for a long time and nobody knows, you’re sure nobody would care if you died and nobody would stop you. You are alone and there is no end. The feeling of being alone, the static in your heart, that fog that clouds your mind and the water than fills your lungs. You feel bad. You are alone. You cannot hide anymore.
i love this tune so much
This is like drowning and thinking it’s ok
Very beautiful and eerily calm. Makes me think of a time when I'd spend WAY too much time in my own blissful thoughts, including ones about a past love, whilst using Fleshlights. Used up so much time in a state of fantasy where time would just disappear. Almost became an addiction. Coping mechanisms and escapism for you...
By listening to this, I really would like to be in silent hill for one day and when I would walk through this hell I’d listen to this song...
NEver experienced a Silent Hill game (except P.T.) but I got drawn to this song like a moth to a lantern. Eerily beautiful in its simplicity but with an unsettling undertone waiting to consume me....
So relaxing!
Imagine there would be a silent hill remastered of every game for the new consoles 😍
Can't wait to hear this on the remake.
so much for that...
@shadowboy2818 Not really, Pc + mod.
@@JD4we even if you can mod it in, doesn't change the fact they forgot to add it. but it is a good thing the pc port exists nonetheless...
_“In my restless dreams, I see that town...Silent Hill. You promised you would take me there again someday...but you never did. Well, I’m alone here, now...in our “special place”...waiting for you...”_
Mary, could you really be in this town?
There is only despair in the other side.
Silent Hill is real, it’s in the psychosphere, the collective consciousness. When you stand in the bathroom mirror, sad or pensive, all the wood and walls and imagery around you can turn an ash grey, stemming out from your hands on the counter top. And the whole world goes to a fog.
in my restless dreams I see that city Tokyo Japan you promise that you will take me there one day but you never did well I'm alone there now in our special place waiting for you
Like Day of Night, but different.
I get a Shemnue vibe with this song for some reason, when Ryo is in a secret room or the basement or something
I used to listen to this and cut my arm with the metal of a pencil
does anybody know what kind of synth/instrument Akira was using? any insight would be helpful, much thanks!
What are the notes for this?
Liminal space type beat
Uau
Does anybody know the instrument(s) in this song?
+Joseph Wagner It'll be some kind of keyboard base sound that has been edited the fuck out of :P
I think Flying Lotus sampled this for Golden Diva?
This isn't called "Prisonic Fairytale"; it's actually called "The Day of Night"....
Alisha Rose Brandywine not true
Came here from the Uzumaki page on kissmanga
Going to a funeral tomorrow..
Fitting..
Is this song the Day of Night? Judt more higher pitch?
I love the music in Silent hill. It gives off that feeling of something lost or gone but it's not? dunno