Excellent, really enjoyed the collaboration between two of the most vetted scientists/Doctor on RUclips who always offer the most useful information for the masses that can be applied to improve everyone's health. Thank you 🙏🏽
You and Gill do not get enough recognition nor rewards for your incredible labor. It is a shame that the public tends to be prone to influencer's BS and lack basic knowledge and logical skills to dismantle the current state of nutritional affairs.
Would like to see a presentation on plant sterols and stanols: helpful or not, or even harmful? Are supplements like Cholestoff effective and safe? How do sterols and stanols compare to Ezetimibe? I know that the method of operation for both is blocking absorption of cholesterol in the gut. But which is safer, better, and can they be combined? Thank you for your indepth and thoughtful analysis.
What would an alternative (or complement) to lowering ApoB look like? Maybe counteracting plaque formation by taking fibrinolytic enzymes? Nattokinase?
I've got everyone in my family who will take it, on Nattokinase. I've been able to get off BP medicine completely because if it, and a few more supplements. It's great.
There is no conclusive evidence that Natto lowers LDL/ ApoB. The main reason is that it has a poor bio-availability. Possibly trials using very large doses would be more or somewhat effective.
You and Dr. Gil are my favorite two RUclipsrs and I can't thank you enough about the amazing work you both do and how you educated me about looking at the data. Having you both collaborate is truly a joy! I'm on Mediterranean diet for a long time but have high APOB, calcium score of 1 and early fatty liver. I have taken Dr. Gil's advice and started to exercise and reducing calories and plan to test again beginning of next year. My doctor just wants to put me on statins without trying anything else 🙂
I"m with you on @NutritionMadeSimple and @Physionic being top of my list of trustworthy providers of analysis. They both tell us to go and look at the studies, and not just believe them.
@@jimdaikh9381 Great, Husk as done wonders for my total cholesterol, I usually take it at night before sleeping , be sure to drink a lot of water generally if on husk, and supplement high strength Omega 3 if u dont eat fish much, combined with exercise, u should see some major improvement by ur next test - So on supplementation side of things Creatine, Husk, Omega 3 & 60000 IU D3 once per week (This was perfect as per my recent blood report)
Holy cow Berg is a chiro? FFS. Look I don't really have any serious issues with Berg, but for the love of intellectual honesty it should be ILLEGAL for chiropractors to use the title of "Dr.". I mean it should carry a heavy fine and possibly even jail time. Berg has over 10 MILLION SUBS. I mean why don't channels like Physionic and Nutrition Made Simple! have this many? Can people be *this* intellectually stunted?
Dr Berg is among the very few legit doctors that can be listened by those familiar in the medical field. His analysis designates with science and reasoning unlike other charlatans spewing on behalf of pharmaceutical global mafia. FYI everyone on internet including Dr Berg is promoting his own products which I don’t agree at all and not approve on that regard. I like those who demonstrate all the data in-front of public like Nick is doing on this channel. A good example could be (Conquer aging or die trying channel) otherwise everyone’s opinion is bound to be criticised!
AFAIK this hasn't been shown "in vivo", opposite, in fact, in non-liver cells, and tests on mice showed the opposite in liver cells too, at least in the context of low glucose
The statement was made "HDL doesn't cause problems." I have seen research that shows that at very high levels HDL can cause problems. Would love to see a presentation devoted to HDL since mine is 120 mg/dl (but with very low TRIGS and OK LDL and APOB) I don't know whether or not to worry.
Increased pressure and increased oxygenation in arteries. Oxygen and pressure causes oxidation to the artery causing injury, LDL responds to repair, it gets oxidized while there. Take Antioxidants. Strengthen your arteries with Vitamin C. That's fruits and vegetables. Genuine carnivores eat raw organs and meat for the vitamin C, unless you do, you are deficient.
Great information from my two favorite content creators. What do you say to those doctors on RUclips (Dr. Ford, Ken Berry) that say it's not fat, but carbs and glucose that causes plaque?
An alternative explanation about plack development starts with endothelial injury and inflammation. TUMERIC and Cocoa power or Dark chocolate can help control the injury and inflammation.
I think improving your digestive system and increasing diversity would be much better than bombarding your system with large amounts of highly available b3
Im a cardiovascular doctor and have put patience on 500-1,000 mg of Niacin with a plant base diet, with 1 day water fast per week, and have seen drastic improvements with this is several patients. To counter some of the Niacin sides I've incorporated some light carbs when taking Niacin. Cheers.
HI I am physician, I went on a carnivore diet for only month because my ALT was mildly elevated and I found from Dr. K.D .Berry that it was because of high carb diet, so was able to bring my ALT down but my LDL went up, however been doing Omega 3 and Niacin up to 500 mg Niacin flush twice per day, but stopped all my supplements 10 days prior to blood draw which is in a few days, so hoping it is much better, but wonder for the 10 days I did not any fish oil or Niacin , possible that my LDL level be higher than 10 days ago? I personally love Niacin and will take it after my lab regardless.
@@zhilahaghbin4766 doesn't Dr. Berry advocate not worrying about "high" LDL in the absence of IR? Super low LDL associated with higher mortality in studies if I recall...
@@fatillacing4131 Reverse causation. Various diseases and traumas cause low LDL hence the association with mortality in simple observational studies Trials that lower LDL to low levels, however, show reduced mortality.
I started out at 335 lbs back in November 2023, at which time I decided to change my diet to give up all processed foods, all vegetable oils (except olive), all sugars, and limit my intake of grains to just a few bites per week. After losing 20 lbs, I started on the treadmill. I am now (end of January 2024) down to 295 lbs and have maintained my diet choices reliably. My Total Cholesterol when from 150 to 277. My LDL went from 84 to 214. Triglycerides fell from 161 to 117 (so that's good). Now I'm worried that the saturated fat I have put into my diet (cooking with rendered beef fat or butter), has reduced the number of LDL receptors in my Liver and is causing my LDL to skyrocket. Doctor never ordered the ApoB test or the test that measures the size of the LDL, but we plan to do so on the next blood test in June. I need an oil I can use to cook my scrambled eggs and vegetables with, and something to use when making stir fry meat and vegetables.
Isn't it funny when doctors forget to order such tests? I wouldn't worry so much about the type of vegetable oil that you're eating, but rather the level of refinement. Refined olive oil is just as bad as the others. You want that 100% extra virgin olive oil. Also remnant cholesterol (RC) is much more dangerous than LDL. RC = Total cholesterol - HDL - LDL. It's all the even lower density stuff than the LDL, such as the VLDL and chylomicrons.
ApoB seems to be a marker for people who consume carbohydrates. Is there any research showing the same results in people on a carnivore or keto diet (below 20g of carbohydrates/day)?
@@MichaelGGarryHave you EVER read an anthropology book? Do you know ANYTHING about our evolutionary diet? But I will volunteer that people are DIFFERENT. Some thrive on carnivore some on vegan. Our DNA and especially microbiomes are different. There is zero point in judging others' diets. There is NO CONTEST. Anyone who plays the competition game is an agent of division.
What about diterpenes in coffee? To what entend can these block Apob receptors. In other words, can excess coffee consumpties (more than 6 cups daily) have an impact and increase cholesterol levels?
@@Feed_Bleed_Read (Jin, Kamanna, & Kashyap, 1999) and (Guo & Fisher, 2011) both show that niacin supresses the expression of ApoB. All studies are limited and none are definitive, of course.
Yes, LDL goes down with polyunsaturated fats but the phytosterol in for instance corn oil, sunflower oil raises the campesterol and sitosterol levels and are even more dangerous than high LDL. This applies especially to so called hyperabsorbers. Hyperabsorber should not increase their intake of polyunsaturated fats too much. They are better off consuming more carbs rich in fibers like sweet potatoes, beans, rice etc that also will lower their LDL. Hyperabsorber should not do keto / LCHF. The absence of carbs will make their LDL skyrocket.
what is consider a safe or healthy range for a pob? In a lab test which result should I be looking at. Had one done and it varies from LDL particle numbers, LDL small, medium peak size. Apoliprotein B and (a). The latter was at 31.
My cholesterol ratio is normal. My triglycerides are normal. My Lipo B is high 149. My lipo a/b ratio is moderate high. I don't eat grains, dairy, or soy. They want me to go on a statin. I am doing diet and exercise. Decreasing saturated fat, processed food and limiting sugar. I use olive and avocado oil. I had acute cholecystitis, no stones. My liver enzymes and total cholesterol was high. My liver enzymes are nomal after surgery and cholesterol is going down. I eat fiber veggies and fruits. I eat more fish. I am taking fish oil, tudca, B12 and vitamin D3 K2. I am feeling better. I have celuacs and hashimotos. My TSH is normal and take no synthroid. I do not have the genetic genes for FH or APOE4. I am only 10 lbs over weight. My BP is 120/80, which I do want to lower. I also try to get 8 hours of sleep and practice meditation.
Ye, but........genetics plays a very small role in cardiovascular disease. It is overwhelmingly a lifestyle disease and can be both prevented and reversed.
Actually I felt this was poorly presented. Not that Gil's knowledge isn't there but felt his comments were disjointed and like he didn't have time to prepare. I think what needs to be emphasized first is how do people find out their ApoB ratio? Well, typically when you go to your Dr for a physical and they order a cholesterol (lipid panel) it really doesn't tell you much. You have to request an "advanced lipid panel"....most Dr's don't do it because insurance companies don't pay for it. Its relatively inexpensive (about $90.00) if you have to pay out of pocket, but will tell you so much more. Additionally when they order your blood panel make sure they are checking liver levels (if its a filtering issue as pointed out, it may be picked up here but more likely will give you a baseline to compare in the future when you make lifetstyle and diet changes to counter an unfavorable ApoB ration). Next get in touch with a nutritionist and review you diet---Be honest! Then if you are lacking exercise in your regiment and especially if you have a desk job and or are obese, contact a certified trainer regarding an exercise program then review that with your Dr. prior to starting (especially if you've been inactive for a number or years, are obese, and or over 40) The idea being 1. find out if you have an ApoB issue 2. Make sure you have the correct information relative to your condition and age. 3. Contact experts and arm them with specific personal information. 4. Review plans (diet and exercise) with you DR and set up a time frame to check progress and retest / monitor. As I said I think Gil has the knowledge but given the presentation seemed spur of the moment and left key factors not addressed. Also DR Peter Attia covers this subject well with a couple videos and interviews.
Agreed, I had to listen 5 times to understand the gist. Very high sat fat diet switch to moderate fat diet. Reduce butter by switching to peanut butter/avocado. High carb diet reduce to low carbs. So LDLC no longer the bad guy its AlipoB., which is a type of VLDL.
Good video. I have FH and take a statin, pop low-dose niacin several times a day, have a good, mostly plant-based diet, and exercise regularly (fencing and bike riding).
If this is the way it works then I can’t figure out how being carnivore dropped my LDL from 262 to 190. No fiber. And my HDL has gone up from 42 to 60. Triglycerides are 78. 64 year old male. Primarily pastured eggs and beef. Occasional lamb.
Your LDL is still very high. Do an ApoB test to see your level of arthrogenic level of cholesterol. You can order it on line and then go to a lab to do it.
Dr Peter Attia has some good cholesterol content on his podcast (The drive). I found the 5 part series he did with Dr Tom Dayspring, especially informative.
Interesting how he forgot to mention Amla, an indian goose berry, mostly available in dry powder form that lowers very significantly LDL cholesterol and therefore ApoB. In a similar degree as statins.
What do you have to say to the proof out there that people are reversing their calcium scores through only eating meat salt & water? I’m curious to know..
i've done everything. eat right and exercise but my ApoB is still high. Everything else looks good. I have done the Lipoprotein Profile Plus test. I have no inflammation. My CAC scan test is 1.5... I had an angiogram done as well coz they had to rescore my CAC. I tried Repatha but I stopped due to its side effects on my joints and I had migraine. Now, I'm waiting on zetia. My high ApoB is probably genetics!
i'm 55 y/o. Our high cholesterol is genetics. My mom has high cholesterol. I was diagnosed of high cholesterol at age 38. I've been on statins for 17yrs but since I did the Lipid Profile Plus Test, I just noticed this from my result.
So curious about the seeming conflict between Saturated Fat consumption and "Seed Oils" (linoleic acid). Many say this dietary ratio is too high as many "processed foods" use seed oils and many are calling this out. Also what about new findings surrounding "Pentadecanoic Acid" (aka C-15) an "essential fatty acid" or saturated fat that studies show reduces CVD etc. I see a need for more studies...What's new?
Do people in Minnesota, Hawaii, and Colorado have lower Apob levels? The reason I ask is those are the 3 States with lowest death rates from heart disease.
I thought it was pretty generous for the doctor not to bias things by reporting that he did an experiment to lower his DL cholesterol I’m pretty sure, LDL - C, and was amazingly successful by going. I think pretty much plant-based. I did that at one point for various reasons and then went off it for other reasons and I am praying that it’s OK to be off that because honestly, I did not feel satisfied overall, even though I felt full and did not get excessively hungry because I’m an old lady. I just like a little more variety with some dairy products, a few eggs, some fish, and a few things thrown at the small number of social events with food that I actually attend each year.
At 11:10, the study quoted wasn't able to "draw any conclusions regarding the effects of dietary cholesterol on CVD risk." But he then concludes that there is a "significant but modest" effect. I found that quite funny.
Do ApoBs normally deliver cholesterol from the liver to other tissues or is the cholesterol in ApoBs mostly there to give it a spherical shape? My doc didn't know.
I would like to say deliver. I believe apoB is the protein bound to the ldl to give it structure. Although cholesterol does aid in fluidity of cell membranes and allows transporters to send things across membranes Idk I could totally be wrong I’d have to google and read a bit to remember.
I was surprised that Dr Carvalho said that dietary cholesterol likely has little impact on serum cholesterol, citing a study to that effect. BUT we know that some of the folks who practice keto or carnivore diets have total cholesterol levels that are unheard of. Some in the 400 to 600s. Gil must have been thinking of standard omnivore dieters.
His more detailed opinion is some folks are more sensitive to dietary cholesterol or genetically predisposed to higher (or lower) cholesterol than others. But the bulk of the populace shouldn't zero in on dietary cholesterol intake relative to keeping at watch on trans fat, saturated fat, and ultra processed foods.
He may have said both hyper absorbers and hyper responders. He mentioned soy being useful, along with fiber and exercise. I think soy lecithin (an emulsifier) would markedly lower GI and lymphatic absorption of cholesterol. @@JoeS97756
Lipoprotein is not cholesterol. Lipoprotein carries cholesterol. Eating Chol does not raise Chol, eating fats raises lipoprotein...to move the fat and Chol. Losing weight by utilizing fat from cells will make more lipoprotein.
I am endocrinologist in my practice lowest apo b is seen in people with low both low Bmi and body fat with high strength and vo2 levels. I achieved this for my self with no oil little nuts and almost vegan diet.. Rarely had some milk. 4 days running 3 days weights. It took 4 years for me to reach ldl 45 from 130
@@TravisBiggie Interesting! Please share, I've seen many people claim this on youtube comments but have yet to see anyone actually share their studies.
@@tomthecat8172 put "Association between low density lipoprotein cholesterol and all-cause mortality: results from the NHANES 1999-2014" into google. No counter-proof allowed on you tube unfortunately.
Wondering if ApoB 10 is considered as too high, for someone who exercises regularly and only eats (not consumes) plant food, no saturated fat and does not smoke?
Hello I'm a heart and blood doktor. I put my patience on lean giraffe and Gazelle meat as our ancestors ate and am seeing markable improvements in kardiovaskular health.
Effect of saffron (Crocus sativus L.) and endurance training on mitochondrial biogenesis, endurance capacity, inflammation, antioxidant, and metabolic biomarkers in Wistar rats . Could you just reveal this cause new evidence showing that saffron is an adjunct to medicine. Thank you .
I appreciate this channel as little lessons, but organic chemistry is complex enough, I don't really know what each of these things found in each of these foods are, and what words are synonyms, etc Like saturated fats, versus triglycerides, versus different kinds of lipoproteins, which now I know are actually transport units, versus cholesterol which is also inside, but I don't get how different kinds of cholesterol play in ..
I suspect that you've done a video on the dangers of APO B. Can someone provide a reference to that video? I still struggle with the notion that our bodies make a protein that causes us harm without a concomitant benefit. Also, it seems to me that our bodies store energy as fats--largely saturated fats.
Hey Morris - not directly on ApoB, but the lipoprotein with the most ApoB. Here: LDL Cholesterol: Heart Disease Risk? Does size matter? [Study 171 - 180 Analysis] ruclips.net/video/1t8rqfG1CMA/видео.html
wow, 20-30% of people are hyper-absorbers of cholesterol. I think its easy to miss that one little line in the interview, but up to 1/3 of people might fall here. Major ramifications for diet. Can this be tested for?
First explain how the relatively gargantuan LDL or associated cholesterol particles get through and across the 20 - 30 compiled tight junction epithelial layers , miraculously never leaving behind a cholesterol particle anywhere in between that can't ever be found on more over 60,000 histological examinations . plaques don't form on the inside of the epethelial lining , only on the outside starting and progressing from capillaries feeding the vaso vasorum - smooth muscle surrounding the arteries. Cholesterol plaques do "NOT" accumulate "inside" arteries , but rather exits capillaries at the arterial end points where smooth muscle cells are damaged , and inflammation . the bulging plaques pinch and loosen the thick lining never traversing to the inside until mechanical forces tear through completely , thus , never has a LDL or cholesterol particle been obseved microscopically in mid transport caught somewhere within the 20 -30 + tightly interconnected layers . To back up to proven fact then , A pertinent question , is 1. How does the functional mechanism of Apob tagged LDL traverse problem free through the entire lining of the length of the Artery to its end cappillary points contribute to cholesterol deposition there and WHY would more LDL-apob be observed circulating in drawn veinous blood (past the cappilaries ) of plaque formers , instead of "much less" numbers , if they are tied up in dumping and delivering the cholesterol cargoes at the problem areas. the corrective indication of lowering the rate of plaque building would be to observe in progressive blood draws , a elevating presence in more apob LDL that hasn't bothered to stop and deliver its cargo would end up in your blood vial . So the improvement measure woukd be observing elevating levels not lowering levels .
No statins for me, sorry. I had my tendon on my right bicep tear in 2019 and my left bicep tear in 2019. While it is normally the Achilles tendon, I found out doing a little online looking it can effect other tendons too.
@@Feed_Bleed_Read No, that's actually a well documented side effect of statins. Do a google search (Plus I learned it in nursing school... wife learned it in med school)
Good video, Dr. Gil mentioned about peanut butter and nuts as good source of polyunsaturated fats but how does Omega 3/Omega 6 balance plays into this? Another problem is fructose, it is difficult to substitute fruits with some sugar alcohol sweets, but what can we do, I wish there were genetically modified mangoes with no fructose or sugar but glucose, or may be left-handed sugars that we do not metabolize.
I think the general consensus is that fruits have a net positive effect even though they have fructose. You want to avoid things like fruit juice and sugary drinks.
Eating a serving of peanut butter won’t undo a good omega balance. Plus it has magnesium and vitamin E. Chris Kresser was a huge alarm bell for the omega madness and he walked back a lot of what he said about whole nuts etc. it’s excessively eating the omega 6 oils in packaged food (usually with plenty of sugar on top) that’s pretttttty bad for you
@@starxcrossed Nutrition Made Simple did a great video about seed oils with high omega-6 content, where he did a thorough literature review of many different oils. Just search for seed oils on his channel. There's basically no evidence that even highest omega-6 content, even when cooked for long periods of time, causes inflammation. Unless you're talking about something other than inflammation.
Can you please turn off the CRT monitor, old TV, or whatever it is, that is making the high-pitched noise in the background of all your videos? If you don't know what makes the sound, can you filter out the frequencies from around 12-15k hz and up when you are editing? As of now, I need to configure an EQ on my own computer to cut out those frequencies myself, just to be able to watch your videos 😛
I literally never hear the sound on any device I use (speakers, computer speakers, Bluetooth headphones, MDR wired headphones) and I use a low pass filter for 18khz. At 12khz, the audio sounds flat. I can't cut the audio that low. I don't have anything running in the background and I even run the audio through an AI audio filter. I can't address anything I can't hear, haha.
@Physionic Very interesting, either my hearing is just more sensitive at higher frequencies, or something else is going on. I will try to do some more in-depth analysis by recording your videos and doing some spectrum analyses and EQ work in Adobe Audition. After this, I will try to send you my findings by Email. From trying another device, I got the same sound with headphones instead of my normal speakers. I also watch a little bit too much RUclips 🙈 and have done so for a long time, but have never heard what I hear in your videos before... Frome from some quick research, it's a little bit different in your different videos. Seems to also be based somewhat on your filming location. Will try to do some research and get back to you :)
![Can we reverse Atherosclerosis? [Study 241 - 246 Analysis]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/obD1GBU8gik/mqdefault.jpg)
A collab made in heaven ... if we had a golden buzzer, this would be worthy, hands down! ❤
Having two of my go to people in the health and wellness industry on the same video is awesome. No BS. Just the facts. Much appreciated!
Excellent, really enjoyed the collaboration between two of the most vetted scientists/Doctor on RUclips who always offer the most useful information for the masses that can be applied to improve everyone's health. Thank you 🙏🏽
Indeed.
Subscribed to this channel now.
Thanks for the conversation gents.
Thankyou to the both of you for your excellent presentations.
You and Gill do not get enough recognition nor rewards for your incredible labor. It is a shame that the public tends to be prone to influencer's BS and lack basic knowledge and logical skills to dismantle the current state of nutritional affairs.
I love the two of you because you show the science and you don't sell any products!
I would like to see research that compares ApoB levels in those with elevated A1c and CRP levels and those with low levels of above markers.
Very clear and helpful. Thank you both!
Our pleasure!
Very interesting, Nick. Thanks for sharing. Wonder what the mechanism is for fiber (psyllium husk) lowering ApoB?
Psyllium husk binds with your bile acids. Your body then needs to use cholesterol to make new bile acids.
Would like to see a presentation on plant sterols and stanols: helpful or not, or even harmful? Are supplements like Cholestoff effective and safe? How do sterols and stanols compare to Ezetimibe? I know that the method of operation for both is blocking absorption of cholesterol in the gut. But which is safer, better, and can they be combined? Thank you for your indepth and thoughtful analysis.
What is the real driver in atherosclerosis, is it the high levels of cholesterol or the oxidation of cholesterol?
YESSSS Finally a collab of my 2 most trusted "sources" :D
What would an alternative (or complement) to lowering ApoB look like? Maybe counteracting plaque formation by taking fibrinolytic enzymes? Nattokinase?
I've got everyone in my family who will take it, on Nattokinase. I've been able to get off BP medicine completely because if it, and a few more supplements. It's great.
There is no conclusive evidence that Natto lowers LDL/ ApoB. The main reason is that it has a poor bio-availability. Possibly trials using very large doses would be more or somewhat effective.
You and Dr. Gil are my favorite two RUclipsrs and I can't thank you enough about the amazing work you both do and how you educated me about looking at the data. Having you both collaborate is truly a joy! I'm on Mediterranean diet for a long time but have high APOB, calcium score of 1 and early fatty liver. I have taken Dr. Gil's advice and started to exercise and reducing calories and plan to test again beginning of next year. My doctor just wants to put me on statins without trying anything else 🙂
My condolences
I"m with you on @NutritionMadeSimple and @Physionic being top of my list of trustworthy providers of analysis. They both tell us to go and look at the studies, and not just believe them.
Also do have psyllium husk and check D3 levels
@@eddscall I have started using psyllium husk and do take D3 but haven't measured it. Plan to test soon. Thanks
@@jimdaikh9381 Great, Husk as done wonders for my total cholesterol, I usually take it at night before sleeping , be sure to drink a lot of water generally if on husk, and supplement high strength Omega 3 if u dont eat fish much, combined with exercise, u should see some major improvement by ur next test - So on supplementation side of things Creatine, Husk, Omega 3 & 60000 IU D3 once per week (This was perfect as per my recent blood report)
This is better than getting health information from chiropractors like "Dr.Berg" amongst others. 👍
Dr. Berg gives a lot of good and helpful information, you can't go much wrong by listening to him, obviosly no diet protocols are a one size fits all.
Holy cow Berg is a chiro? FFS. Look I don't really have any serious issues with Berg, but for the love of intellectual honesty it should be ILLEGAL for chiropractors to use the title of "Dr.". I mean it should carry a heavy fine and possibly even jail time. Berg has over 10 MILLION SUBS. I mean why don't channels like Physionic and Nutrition Made Simple! have this many? Can people be *this* intellectually stunted?
@@eyeofsauronsa and a scientologist
Dr Berg is among the very few legit doctors that can be listened by those familiar in the medical field. His analysis designates with science and reasoning unlike other charlatans spewing on behalf of pharmaceutical global mafia. FYI everyone on internet including Dr Berg is promoting his own products which I don’t agree at all and not approve on that regard. I like those who demonstrate all the data in-front of public like Nick is doing on this channel. A good example could be (Conquer aging or die trying channel)
otherwise everyone’s opinion is bound to be criticised!
@@donniedarko3259 do you even know what Scientology is other than what biased media has been saying 😂
reduction of receptors by using saturated fatty acids was interesting for me.
AFAIK this hasn't been shown "in vivo", opposite, in fact, in non-liver cells, and tests on mice showed the opposite in liver cells too, at least in the context of low glucose
What pharmacology reduces Apob?
A lot of people asking about Niacin, official guidelines now recommend not taking it. Also, there is no current way to lower Lp(a)
The statement was made "HDL doesn't cause problems." I have seen research that shows that at very high levels HDL can cause problems. Would love to see a presentation devoted to HDL since mine is 120 mg/dl (but with very low TRIGS and OK LDL and APOB) I don't know whether or not to worry.
Why do we not see ApoB buildup in veins? Unless a vein is put into service as an artery as in a bypass procedure. Then they seen to block up faster.
Covered in my Saladino video
@@Physionicis it a short one?
Increased pressure and increased oxygenation in arteries. Oxygen and pressure causes oxidation to the artery causing injury, LDL responds to repair, it gets oxidized while there. Take Antioxidants. Strengthen your arteries with Vitamin C. That's fruits and vegetables. Genuine carnivores eat raw organs and meat for the vitamin C, unless you do, you are deficient.
Great information from my two favorite content creators. What do you say to those doctors on RUclips (Dr. Ford, Ken Berry) that say it's not fat, but carbs and glucose that causes plaque?
An alternative explanation about plack development starts with endothelial injury and inflammation. TUMERIC and Cocoa power or Dark chocolate can help control the injury and inflammation.
Cocoa heavy metals no thx.
Also, turmeric is being blamed for causing damage, too. Sorry.
Vitamin C strengthens arteries.
Love Gil’s knowledge and clarity!
How about vitamin B3 as an effective supplement for lowering apoB?
Wasn't mentioned, but I have several videos on the topic.
I think improving your digestive system and increasing diversity would be much better than bombarding your system with large amounts of highly available b3
New study just out about B3 supplementation (Niacin) actually causing heart disease.
The study doesn't say Niacin causes heart disease. It says Niacin is not better than statins at PREVENTING heart disease.@@JoeS97756
Would like to know what he thinks of Nattokinase for reducing ApoB.
Im a cardiovascular doctor and have put patience on 500-1,000 mg of Niacin with a plant base diet, with 1 day water fast per week, and have seen drastic improvements with this is several patients. To counter some of the Niacin sides I've incorporated some light carbs when taking Niacin. Cheers.
HI I am physician, I went on a carnivore diet for only month because my ALT was mildly elevated and I found from Dr. K.D .Berry that it was because of high carb diet, so was able to bring my ALT down but my LDL went up, however been doing Omega 3 and Niacin up to 500 mg Niacin flush twice per day, but stopped all my supplements 10 days prior to blood draw which is in a few days, so hoping it is much better, but wonder for the 10 days I did not any fish oil or Niacin , possible that my LDL level be higher than 10 days ago? I personally love Niacin and will take it after my lab regardless.
I think making the niacin in the system more available than giving large amounts of highly available niacin would be better long term.
@@zhilahaghbin4766 doesn't Dr. Berry advocate not worrying about "high" LDL in the absence of IR? Super low LDL associated with higher mortality in studies if I recall...
@@fatillacing4131 Reverse causation. Various diseases and traumas cause low LDL hence the association with mortality in simple observational studies Trials that lower LDL to low levels, however, show reduced mortality.
Do you mean patients? It’s hard for me to believe a doctor wouldn’t know how to spell that word
Excellent. I finally understand.
I started out at 335 lbs back in November 2023, at which time I decided to change my diet to give up all processed foods, all vegetable oils (except olive), all sugars, and limit my intake of grains to just a few bites per week. After losing 20 lbs, I started on the treadmill. I am now (end of January 2024) down to 295 lbs and have maintained my diet choices reliably.
My Total Cholesterol when from 150 to 277. My LDL went from 84 to 214. Triglycerides fell from 161 to 117 (so that's good).
Now I'm worried that the saturated fat I have put into my diet (cooking with rendered beef fat or butter), has reduced the number of LDL receptors in my Liver and is causing my LDL to skyrocket.
Doctor never ordered the ApoB test or the test that measures the size of the LDL, but we plan to do so on the next blood test in June.
I need an oil I can use to cook my scrambled eggs and vegetables with, and something to use when making stir fry meat and vegetables.
We use Olive oil and Avocado oil
Search norwitz Oreo
Isn't it funny when doctors forget to order such tests? I wouldn't worry so much about the type of vegetable oil that you're eating, but rather the level of refinement. Refined olive oil is just as bad as the others. You want that 100% extra virgin olive oil.
Also remnant cholesterol (RC) is much more dangerous than LDL. RC = Total cholesterol - HDL - LDL. It's all the even lower density stuff than the LDL, such as the VLDL and chylomicrons.
Try avocado oil for cooking and maybe switch to fish
Incorporate psyllium husk, it did wonders to me
Since most people rarely eat fish & seafood, unfortunately. I'd suggest taking up to 1g of omega-3 suplements.
Very educational! Thank you very much!
brilliant combo
Dude, love your pods. Much thx for sharing this! Will decrease my sat-fats and increase my EVOO and guacamole.
Which Niacin Please? Flush Niacin or NON Flush ?
I am no expert, but I did look into this it appears as though no flush =no benefit. I would default to the flush version until proven otherwise.
Nick & Gil is the collab that we need in the online nutrition space. Thanks gents and happy holidays!
ApoB seems to be a marker for people who consume carbohydrates. Is there any research showing the same results in people on a carnivore or keto diet (below 20g of carbohydrates/day)?
2024 and people still on those ridiculous diets.....
@@MichaelGGarry respect other peoples dietary choices and stop offering your petty insulting advice
@@MichaelGGarryHave you EVER read an anthropology book? Do you know ANYTHING about our evolutionary diet?
But I will volunteer that people are DIFFERENT. Some thrive on carnivore some on vegan. Our DNA and especially microbiomes are different. There is zero point in judging others' diets. There is NO CONTEST. Anyone who plays the competition game is an agent of division.
What about diterpenes in coffee? To what entend can these block Apob receptors. In other words, can excess coffee consumpties (more than 6 cups daily) have an impact and increase cholesterol levels?
Great content thank you
Great video. It's interesting that Gil never listed niacin (nicotinic acid) as one of the supplements that greatly lowers ApoB...and Lp(a)!
I know, although he has done a deep dive on Niacin, and heart disease.
Probably forgot to mention it off the cuff.
@@Feed_Bleed_Read
I have to agree with you. Niacin didn't lower my Apo b, nor did it raise my Hdl😏
@@Feed_Bleed_Read (Jin, Kamanna, & Kashyap, 1999) and (Guo & Fisher, 2011) both show that niacin supresses the expression of ApoB. All studies are limited and none are definitive, of course.
Unfortunately there’s no way to lower Lp(a) They are working on a medication for it currently
Superb content, cool collaboration. God bless
He mentions canola oil as an option for something you should switch to , seed oils are poison. So I am not sure about his suggestions
Did you say industrial trans fats were discontinued in the United States? Can you elaborate more on that
Yes, LDL goes down with polyunsaturated fats but the phytosterol in for instance corn oil, sunflower oil raises the campesterol and sitosterol levels and are even more dangerous than high LDL.
This applies especially to so called hyperabsorbers.
Hyperabsorber should not increase their intake of polyunsaturated fats too much. They are better off consuming more carbs rich in fibers like sweet potatoes, beans, rice etc that also will lower their LDL.
Hyperabsorber should not do keto / LCHF. The absence of carbs will make their LDL skyrocket.
Can you go over the risks of statins and how serious they are ?
Ther;s a strong risk that they will reduce major adverse cardiovascular event rates and dementia rates.
@@tomgoff7887 isn't that a good thing ?
@@farhat5325 Er, yes.
Gil is the GOAT
What if fat is your primary source of fuel, eg keto, carnivore diets? Is the advice the same?
what is consider a safe or healthy range for a pob? In a lab test which result should I be looking at. Had one done and it varies from LDL particle numbers, LDL small, medium peak size. Apoliprotein B and (a). The latter was at 31.
My cholesterol ratio is normal. My triglycerides are normal. My Lipo B is high 149. My lipo a/b ratio is moderate high. I don't eat grains, dairy, or soy. They want me to go on a statin. I am doing diet and exercise. Decreasing saturated fat, processed food and limiting sugar. I use olive and avocado oil. I had acute cholecystitis, no stones. My liver enzymes and total cholesterol was high. My liver enzymes are nomal after surgery and cholesterol is going down. I eat fiber veggies and fruits. I eat more fish. I am taking fish oil, tudca, B12 and vitamin D3 K2. I am feeling better. I have celuacs and hashimotos. My TSH is normal and take no synthroid. I do not have the genetic genes for FH or APOE4. I am only 10 lbs over weight. My BP is 120/80, which I do want to lower. I also try to get 8 hours of sleep and practice meditation.
One very important and often overlooked in Cardiovascular health is Lp(a) a genetic factor that causes Atherosclerosis regardless of LDL numbers.
Which is why it's important to use ApoB instead of LDL, since ApoB takes into account Lp(a)
Ye, but........genetics plays a very small role in cardiovascular disease. It is overwhelmingly a lifestyle disease and can be both prevented and reversed.
Ah yes, searching for lights I g strikes. What an inefficient way to use the healthcare system
Great talk; Thanks!
You never mentioned what the “healthy range” is in mg/dL! How do we know what is healthy & what concentration is not healthy!!!!
It will be on your lab report.
Actually I felt this was poorly presented. Not that Gil's knowledge isn't there but felt his comments were disjointed and like he didn't have time to prepare.
I think what needs to be emphasized first is how do people find out their ApoB ratio? Well, typically when you go to your Dr for a physical and they order a cholesterol (lipid panel) it really doesn't tell you much. You have to request an "advanced lipid panel"....most Dr's don't do it because insurance companies don't pay for it. Its relatively inexpensive (about $90.00) if you have to pay out of pocket, but will tell you so much more. Additionally when they order your blood panel make sure they are checking liver levels (if its a filtering issue as pointed out, it may be picked up here but more likely will give you a baseline to compare in the future when you make lifetstyle and diet changes to counter an unfavorable ApoB ration).
Next get in touch with a nutritionist and review you diet---Be honest! Then if you are lacking exercise in your regiment and especially if you have a desk job and or are obese, contact a certified trainer regarding an exercise program then review that with your Dr. prior to starting (especially if you've been inactive for a number or years, are obese, and or over 40)
The idea being 1. find out if you have an ApoB issue 2. Make sure you have the correct information relative to your condition and age. 3. Contact experts and arm them with specific personal information. 4. Review plans (diet and exercise) with you DR and set up a time frame to check progress and retest / monitor.
As I said I think Gil has the knowledge but given the presentation seemed spur of the moment and left key factors not addressed.
Also DR Peter Attia covers this subject well with a couple videos and interviews.
Agreed, I had to listen 5 times to understand the gist.
Very high sat fat diet switch to moderate fat diet. Reduce butter by switching to peanut butter/avocado.
High carb diet reduce to low carbs.
So LDLC no longer the bad guy its AlipoB., which is a type of VLDL.
Good video. I have FH and take a statin, pop low-dose niacin several times a day, have a good, mostly plant-based diet, and exercise regularly (fencing and bike riding).
May I ask which low dose niacin brand you use? I can’t tolerate the higher dose ones. Thank you in advance 🙏🏻
I recommend David Diamond's presentation on FH and CVD risk
Watch the Niacin, new study out showing supplementation causing heart disease.
I’ve heard the American heart association has officially stopped recommending niacin
Will cardiovascular exercise, like running, lower apo-b?
yes
@@PhysionicThanks. Mechanistically, is it the cardio itself or is it more linked to body weight reduction?
LP(a) is the most critical marker for heart risk, yes?
Awesome 👏 Video
If this is the way it works then I can’t figure out how being carnivore dropped my LDL from 262 to 190. No fiber. And my HDL has gone up from 42 to 60. Triglycerides are 78. 64 year old male. Primarily pastured eggs and beef. Occasional lamb.
Your LDL is still very high. Do an ApoB test to see your level of arthrogenic level of cholesterol. You can order it on line and then go to a lab to do it.
Don't lower LDL unless it's OXIDIZED. Get a count. Check ApoB.
The two best together 👍
Maybe get Peter Attia as third.
Dr Peter Attia has some good cholesterol content on his podcast (The drive). I found the 5 part series he did with Dr Tom Dayspring, especially informative.
Well then it would just be an echo chamber. I like to listen to varied opinions, maybe Ken Berry for some variety in perspective?
@@fatillacing4131 kenberry is far from science. These two would eat him alive.
@@ÁzsiábaSzakadtam that would prove his point
Peter is a snake oil peddler. Please no.
Interesting how he forgot to mention Amla, an indian goose berry, mostly available in dry powder form that lowers very significantly LDL cholesterol and therefore ApoB. In a similar degree as statins.
What do you have to say to the proof out there that people are reversing their calcium scores through only eating meat salt & water? I’m curious to know..
The survivors. The ones that died on the diet aren't around to tell everyone it is a huge and dangerous mistake.
Thanks!
Danke!
i've done everything. eat right and exercise but my ApoB is still high. Everything else looks good. I have done the Lipoprotein Profile Plus test. I have no inflammation. My CAC scan test is 1.5... I had an angiogram done as well coz they had to rescore my CAC. I tried Repatha but I stopped due to its side effects on my joints and I had migraine. Now, I'm waiting on zetia. My high ApoB is probably genetics!
Hey! How old are you? And when did you start noticing your apoB is high
i'm 55 y/o. Our high cholesterol is genetics. My mom has high cholesterol. I was diagnosed of high cholesterol at age 38. I've been on statins for 17yrs but since I did the Lipid Profile Plus Test, I just noticed this from my result.
So curious about the seeming conflict between Saturated Fat consumption and "Seed Oils" (linoleic acid). Many say this dietary ratio is too high as many "processed foods" use seed oils and many are calling this out. Also what about new findings surrounding "Pentadecanoic Acid" (aka C-15) an "essential fatty acid" or saturated fat that studies show reduces CVD etc. I see a need for more studies...What's new?
Is ApoB a synonym for LDL?
Try taking Amla.
Surprised he didn't mention niacin for lowering apob. It is a natural way of lowering apob instead of a statin.
Great Video 5-Stars !
Do people in Minnesota, Hawaii, and Colorado have lower Apob levels? The reason I ask is those are the 3 States with lowest death rates from heart disease.
Very nice explanation, never heard this explanation before!
Cut back on soda? No, eliminate soda from your diet.
Did you or @nutitionmadesimple notice any bump from cross over subscribers ? .
The thing that has always annoyed me is that my ldl has always been low but my total is higher and I'm hoping doctors catch on to the science soon.
I thought it was pretty generous for the doctor not to bias things by reporting that he did an experiment to lower his DL cholesterol I’m pretty sure, LDL - C, and was amazingly successful by going. I think pretty much plant-based. I did that at one point for various reasons and then went off it for other reasons and I am praying that it’s OK to be off that because honestly, I did not feel satisfied overall, even though I felt full and did not get excessively hungry because I’m an old lady. I just like a little more variety with some dairy products, a few eggs, some fish, and a few things thrown at the small number of social events with food that I actually attend each year.
How does ApoB relate to lipoprotein A?
At 11:10, the study quoted wasn't able to "draw any conclusions regarding the effects of dietary cholesterol on CVD risk." But he then concludes that there is a "significant but modest" effect. I found that quite funny.
Do ApoBs normally deliver cholesterol from the liver to other tissues or is the cholesterol in ApoBs mostly there to give it a spherical shape? My doc didn't know.
I would like to say deliver. I believe apoB is the protein bound to the ldl to give it structure.
Although cholesterol does aid in fluidity of cell membranes and allows transporters to send things across membranes
Idk I could totally be wrong I’d have to google and read a bit to remember.
Gil is another OG!
I was surprised that Dr Carvalho said that dietary cholesterol likely has little impact on serum cholesterol, citing a study to that effect.
BUT we know that some of the folks who practice keto or carnivore diets have total cholesterol levels that are unheard of. Some in the 400 to 600s.
Gil must have been thinking of standard omnivore dieters.
His more detailed opinion is some folks are more sensitive to dietary cholesterol or genetically predisposed to higher (or lower) cholesterol than others. But the bulk of the populace shouldn't zero in on dietary cholesterol intake relative to keeping at watch on trans fat, saturated fat, and ultra processed foods.
He mentioned hyper responders.
He may have said both hyper absorbers and hyper responders.
He mentioned soy being useful, along with fiber and exercise. I think soy lecithin (an emulsifier) would markedly lower GI and lymphatic absorption of cholesterol. @@JoeS97756
One problem of the portfolio diet is that hyper responders will also respond to phytosterols as well
Lipoprotein is not cholesterol. Lipoprotein carries cholesterol. Eating Chol does not raise Chol, eating fats raises lipoprotein...to move the fat and Chol. Losing weight by utilizing fat from cells will make more lipoprotein.
I am endocrinologist in my practice lowest apo b is seen in people with low both low Bmi and body fat with high strength and vo2 levels.
I achieved this for my self with no oil little nuts and almost vegan diet.. Rarely had some milk. 4 days running 3 days weights.
It took 4 years for me to reach ldl 45 from 130
thats not a good thing, my goodness. how many studies do there need to be to show low ldl is bad? insane
@@ns1extreme This guy on this channel, many times. Most old people have elevated LDL....
@@TravisBiggie Interesting! Please share, I've seen many people claim this on youtube comments but have yet to see anyone actually share their studies.
@@martinp7256I think you misread the comment you were replying to.
@@tomthecat8172 put "Association between low density lipoprotein cholesterol and all-cause mortality: results from the NHANES 1999-2014" into google. No counter-proof allowed on you tube unfortunately.
Wondering if ApoB 10 is considered as too high, for someone who exercises regularly and only eats (not consumes) plant food, no saturated fat and does not smoke?
Hello I'm a heart and blood doktor. I put my patience on lean giraffe and Gazelle meat as our ancestors ate and am seeing markable improvements in kardiovaskular health.
Effect of saffron (Crocus sativus L.) and endurance training on mitochondrial biogenesis, endurance capacity, inflammation, antioxidant, and metabolic biomarkers in Wistar rats . Could you just reveal this cause new evidence showing that saffron is an adjunct to medicine. Thank you .
Interesting stuff.
The takeaways from this are difficult to keep in my brain, lol. Compared to the hdl "cleaning" ldl story
I appreciate this channel as little lessons, but organic chemistry is complex enough, I don't really know what each of these things found in each of these foods are, and what words are synonyms, etc
Like saturated fats, versus triglycerides, versus different kinds of lipoproteins, which now I know are actually transport units, versus cholesterol which is also inside, but I don't get how different kinds of cholesterol play in ..
define: abnormally high
I'd like to see a discussion with Layne Norton.
He’s not proficient in this stuff…He’s diet and exercise.
@@terminator3728 Well, i think he knows more than what he's talking about, but ethier way it's enough overlap in knowledge i believe.
Thank you
you guys ever test red yeast rice?
I suspect that you've done a video on the dangers of APO B. Can someone provide a reference to that video?
I still struggle with the notion that our bodies make a protein that causes us harm without a concomitant benefit. Also, it seems to me that our bodies store energy as fats--largely saturated fats.
Hey Morris - not directly on ApoB, but the lipoprotein with the most ApoB. Here: LDL Cholesterol: Heart Disease Risk? Does size matter? [Study 171 - 180 Analysis]
ruclips.net/video/1t8rqfG1CMA/видео.html
He very clearly stated that cholesterol is needed by the body, but not in excess.
wow, 20-30% of people are hyper-absorbers of cholesterol. I think its easy to miss that one little line in the interview, but up to 1/3 of people might fall here. Major ramifications for diet. Can this be tested for?
How do I buy one of your Dad's coffee cup?🤓
Joeveo Temperfect website
And, what does a very lowfat diet do?
Malnutrition
links?@@brucejensen3081
Make me very depressed
Just be aware some peanuts can contain liver-attacking fungi because they are stored in dark grain silos.
First explain how the relatively gargantuan LDL or associated cholesterol particles get through and across the 20 - 30 compiled tight junction epithelial layers , miraculously never leaving behind a cholesterol particle anywhere in between that can't ever be found on more over 60,000 histological examinations . plaques don't form on the inside of the epethelial lining , only on the outside starting and progressing from capillaries feeding the vaso vasorum - smooth muscle surrounding the arteries.
Cholesterol plaques do "NOT" accumulate "inside" arteries , but rather exits capillaries at the arterial end points where smooth muscle cells are damaged , and inflammation .
the bulging plaques pinch and loosen the thick lining never traversing to the inside until mechanical forces tear through completely , thus , never has a LDL or cholesterol particle been obseved microscopically in mid transport caught somewhere within the 20 -30 + tightly interconnected layers .
To back up to proven fact then , A pertinent question , is
1. How does the functional mechanism of Apob tagged LDL traverse problem free through the entire lining of the length of the Artery to its end cappillary points contribute to cholesterol deposition there and WHY would more LDL-apob be observed circulating in drawn veinous blood (past the cappilaries ) of plaque formers , instead of "much less" numbers , if they are tied up in dumping and delivering the cholesterol cargoes at the problem areas. the corrective indication of lowering the rate of plaque building would be to observe in progressive blood draws , a elevating presence in more apob LDL that hasn't bothered to stop and deliver its cargo would end up in your blood vial . So the improvement measure woukd be observing elevating levels not lowering levels .
Gil states "APO B is the causative factor". Does he want to rethink that comment, or does he still stand by that?
No statins for me, sorry. I had my tendon on my right bicep tear in 2019 and my left bicep tear in 2019. While it is normally the Achilles tendon, I found out doing a little online looking it can effect other tendons too.
@@Feed_Bleed_Read No, that's actually a well documented side effect of statins. Do a google search (Plus I learned it in nursing school... wife learned it in med school)
Just happened to me, too, 7 weeks after stopping pravastatin. Torn biceps tendon while curling puny 20lb dumbbell. Ridiculous. No more statins for me.
Niacin is the key!
Good video, Dr. Gil mentioned about peanut butter and nuts as good source of polyunsaturated fats but how does Omega 3/Omega 6 balance plays into this?
Another problem is fructose, it is difficult to substitute fruits with some sugar alcohol sweets, but what can we do, I wish there were genetically modified mangoes with no fructose or sugar but glucose, or may be left-handed sugars that we do not metabolize.
I think the general consensus is that fruits have a net positive effect even though they have fructose. You want to avoid things like fruit juice and sugary drinks.
Eating a serving of peanut butter won’t undo a good omega balance. Plus it has magnesium and vitamin E. Chris Kresser was a huge alarm bell for the omega madness and he walked back a lot of what he said about whole nuts etc. it’s excessively eating the omega 6 oils in packaged food (usually with plenty of sugar on top) that’s pretttttty bad for you
@@starxcrossed Nutrition Made Simple did a great video about seed oils with high omega-6 content, where he did a thorough literature review of many different oils. Just search for seed oils on his channel. There's basically no evidence that even highest omega-6 content, even when cooked for long periods of time, causes inflammation. Unless you're talking about something other than inflammation.
Alcohol?
Can you please turn off the CRT monitor, old TV, or whatever it is, that is making the high-pitched noise in the background of all your videos?
If you don't know what makes the sound, can you filter out the frequencies from around 12-15k hz and up when you are editing?
As of now, I need to configure an EQ on my own computer to cut out those frequencies myself, just to be able to watch your videos 😛
I literally never hear the sound on any device I use (speakers, computer speakers, Bluetooth headphones, MDR wired headphones) and I use a low pass filter for 18khz. At 12khz, the audio sounds flat. I can't cut the audio that low. I don't have anything running in the background and I even run the audio through an AI audio filter. I can't address anything I can't hear, haha.
@Physionic Very interesting, either my hearing is just more sensitive at higher frequencies, or something else is going on. I will try to do some more in-depth analysis by recording your videos and doing some spectrum analyses and EQ work in Adobe Audition. After this, I will try to send you my findings by Email. From trying another device, I got the same sound with headphones instead of my normal speakers. I also watch a little bit too much RUclips 🙈 and have done so for a long time, but have never heard what I hear in your videos before... Frome from some quick research, it's a little bit different in your different videos. Seems to also be based somewhat on your filming location. Will try to do some research and get back to you :)
@gtimbra ~ The sound you hear is "sonic intelligence " . It's all part of the learning process ✨️👌
@@jamescalifornia2964 probably the AI audio filter with a "special" message for certain audience members...
@@fatillacing4131 ~ Exactly 💯 😀
You and Gil should start a company.
An Apob annihilating antagonist med co. ?