How To Use A Belt or Drum Floor Sander (demonstration and theory)
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- Опубликовано: 9 сен 2024
- How to use a belt or drum floor sander.
www.howtosandaf...
Using a belt or drum floor sander is a daunting task for most people. At least it is their first time. The truth is, when you understand how to use one of these machines, it doesn't take long to get 80% of the skill you need under your belt. With the right knowledge and a bit of practice, it's easy!
Be sure to check out the link above to get a more detailed explanation of how to use a floor sander
www.howtosandaf...
Good stuff, at some point in one of your videos you say “I’m not a good presenter, I’m not a good speaker” but I find you very understandable and relatable. I think you teach very well.
The airplane landing comment is what I came for. Thank you. None of the other videos really mention this. I was leaving the drum down through my back and forth motions and couldn't understand why I was creating gouges even though I wasn't stopping. But that split second of changing directions is all it takes to create a gouge.
see i really like this approach to the videos. its lots of honesty. not ashamed of asking questions. "are we done?" "can we add something?". intelligent and straight forward. more videos should be like this.
+nobby styles thanks matey!
This is an excellent video that covers some of the often missed points of using either a drum or belt sander. The key points presented by this professional, will prove to be a valuable asset in refinishing your hardwood floors. Note: The herringbone pattern flooring used in this video, is an example of top quality wood flooring available. It's of upmost importance to take the advice of this professional when he recommends changing directions throughout progressive sanding steps. We've been involved in this trade for over 30 years, and what he says is correct. This is especially true when it comes to controlling the drum as you approach a wall or other obstacle. Thank you for posting an informative and professional video. Kudos!!
Thank you!
How To Sand A Floor as
Yes i cant agree more with you! Great Job!
Nice to see a professional using a proper floor machine. So many of these so called experts start trying to impress one with their expertise in sanding a floor and they start by using a mickey mouse rental drum floor sander. Sort of using a screw driver for a wood chisel and trying to convince you that they are a craftsman.. Great tutorial from a professional. Yes I have been refinishing floors for over 55 years and I know quality when I see it.!!!
Oh hell we love that Mickey Mouse brand rental! But we'll do it your way & pop for a 5 or 6k purchase! Thanks for all your detail Pro!
My brother lightly sanded our floorboards which run diagonally and used a stain blocker to cover up any mistakes etc. unfortunately the grey stain color we selected turned into a dark brown color instead and me being a novice decide to resand the floors.
I watched a few tutorial videos to understand the basics and hired a floor sander from bunnings but it didn't have a lever to lift and lower the sanding belt so you had to tilt and lower it manually.
I started with 80 grit sand paper and proceeded to duplicate the amazing results I had seen on you tube videos only to discover my lack of experience and movement of the floor sander caused groves, stop and start marks, scorching, and noticeable scratches in the floor I was sanding but I was sanding diagonally lol.
I stopped and have been watching your how to use a belt or drum sander video to get a better understand so I can learn and practice your techniques to correct my mistakes.
Thank you for the videos.
Thanks for your demo, that cleared up a lot!! We have rentals and the tenant professionally steamed our floors and ruined the finish!! My wife rented the vibrating sander for a bruce 10 year hardwood finish and she spent 20 hours sanding and it is still not complete!! We found out that those pre-finish floors use Aluminum Oxide and it makes it near impossible to sand with the vibrating type sanders. Today I am renting the drum sander to finish the job. She wouldn't touch the drum the sander because of fear that she will destroy the wood. Thanks again!!
coolhacker011 That aluminum oxide stinks too!
Man scraping aluminum oxide is a b word
@@420f37 take a piece of 36 edger paper to the corners before you scrape, makes it a bit easier
Great video!
I was at work yesterday (painter) and the floor guy was starting to do a refin on the hardwood flooring. I was fortunate enough to bear witness to the particular splendor that is the Lagler Hummel in action! Very impressive!
effsixteenblock50 It was designed in like 1972, German (obviously), and its still the best on the market today. Awesome design. Thanks for your comment :)
you seem to be a kraut-junkie, as far as i could see (fein, festool, hummel and even the vakuum-cleaner). are there any alternatives, which are more affordable to diy?
thank you so much for providing your videos! I purchased a very old house, trying to make the most of it for my children and myself. I've been putting work into daily, remodeling, painting, drywalling, woodwork, and my latest task has been to refinish all of the very old, stained, water damaged hardwood floors. they are looking so much better now and I wouldn't have been able to do it without your help. So far I've sanded and refinished a staircase, a hallway and one of the bedrooms. I appreciate all you have shared, and have subscribed. thanks so much!!
Really glad to hear that, thanks for letting me know after having actually done it, its great to hear!
i have looked through all your clips ,, i would like to say thank you for your knowledge and top tips,, many thanks ...
cheers
I'm here to learn all I can about how to sand and refinish my own floors to save money. I appreciate the tips from your video.
Very well explained, and helpful. The airplane comparison is about the best analogy to tell anyone how to use the machine properly. Thanks, clearly the best video I have watched yet.
You give a lot of value in your videos. I have had many people ask about redoing their hardwood floors and most being diy’ers they think it should be an easy task. I have told them if you want it done correctly you need to either pay for a professional or watch many pro videos on the subject. It is one task that people underestimate what it takes to do it correctly. I’ve learned a ton from you already. Thanks! Subbed to you as well.
I spoke to the late Eugene Lagler back in 1988 about his machine (Hummel) .He was a good machinist but had no idea about how to sand a floor . The Hummel has some inherent problems but it is a popular machine and quality in sanding is not a skill that is desired nowadays as there are a plethora of buffers , flat plates & planetary sanders that make up for this deficiency.
My father was a floorsander from 1950's and always said understanding is the key to genius.I am know 52 into my 35th year of floorsanding and it really is a skill that is dying.
+russel finch I would love to hear what the hell you are talking about? The whole point of machines is to reduce labour and make it easy for anyone to do. Why be nostalgic about belt sanders when you can be nostalgic about hand scraping floors? Tell me what you know about belt sanding that apparently others don't know.
Thank you for sharing your hard earned experience and know-how with us!! Excellent content and commentary on video, including your replies in text. Truly nice work. Many thanks.
A lot of what your saying and demonstrating is good!
AHF Allhardwoodfloor nice herringbone parquetry floor
AHF Allhardwoodfloor i have pm'ed you
Thank you
This guy is good instructor 👍
Thanks mate. About to do my restaurant floor and this has been a huge help. Great job 👍
Great demonstration. Im sanding my 1937 pine floor and its not flat at all. I only sanded forward. Its the first time ever sanding a floor though. But tomorrow I will try diagonally and forwards then backwards. Thanks to your videos.
Wish me luck
Make sure floor is clean and check and clean wheels often. also better to sand the same line twice than sand it slowly once. you avoid putting ripples in the floor. also empty bag when its 2/3s full so you dont blow dust everywhere and if you happen to rent a hummel floor should turn out ok. drum sanders are quite aggressive . extra care taken with them.
thanks for the tricks and tips to operate drum floor sander. first time user and now i will start my DIY project.
Ceasar Francisco Good luck!
the main difference between belt and drum is quite simply that you're able to take on and off the sandpaper without needing to "release", the drum while in operation has little slits cut into the wheel that expands and secures it onto the drum so there is less slipping - there will be slipping, there will never be as good a tensioner with either of these like your tensioner pulley on your car.
Other than that little bit the same principle applies, different models have different ways of operation and as you have the internet you can look up the operator's manual for information that you wouldn't get from your rental company.
Please do more vids!! Thanks for the uploads also thus far. You really are teaching me great tips to save time and most of all the floor!!! Cheers
BULLOCK1973 thanks for the comments
Worked like a charm, sir!
What do you mean when you say to change directions... isn't it necessary to sand with the grain of the wood with a drum or belt sander?
I want to know this too
Me too
Thank you - very helpful information!
Thank for your help.
how would you take a water stain out of a hard wood floor? What would you use, a hand sander on the spots?
Very helpful video. Great job, Ben!
Cheers matey!
When changing direction, do you go to 90 degrees? When changing direction, is that the time to change to a less aggressive grit, or do you use the same grit for both directions?
A belt sander doesn’t leave chatter marks only a drum sander will and is caused by the jaws on the sander. Also remind people to run sander on a board/ board and a half angle then run your last paper or papers straight to cut out cross marks.
Good information, thanks for posting this video.
I bought a rather cheap and soft Malaysian wood floor from floors to go but they do not sell it anymore. I know that this one, as well as many others, has Aluminium in its surface finish. I remembered learning about it 8 years ago or so when I laid the floor because I wished to seal it with Traffex (I think that is a Swedish sealant like Silicon that keeps it shinny and durable) and you should not use that stuff if it is finished with aluminium particles (not sure why). Anyway, I wanted to sand it but unsure whether such a floor could be sanded. it is cheap, but I like it. It has marks that look black from sofas like it has lost its original finish in places. Do you think I could go to Bradfords builders merchants hire, and sand it all by hiring a sander. It is not like a floor of a home but it is 15 mm or so thick. It is not like a 40 quid per m2 engineered or real floor or anything like this.
You say we can go backward with the sanding machine, but I’m using an Ez-8 and the location place person told me to NEVER use it backward. Plus, EZ-8 Official youtube channel also says to never go backward
heavy, well built !
Awsome. Getting ready to sand and stain and finish in a few weeks.
I could learn a lot, thank you
What a bloody Marvell this guy is
With that machine, do NOT hesitate for even 0.5 second. You will immediately sand own 1/4 to 1/8 inch floor.
I never saw this comment before, but actually I have never seen anyone do that. You actually have to hold it still to put a big ding in it. Because it’s always pulling itself forward
@robert hocker you obviously have never sanded using a belt sander before
1/4 to 1/8" in one half second. Y Tube draws a lot of crazies eh? thanks @@EjPrince23
1/4, ONE QUARTER INCH, to 1/8" in one half second huh? Y Tube draws a lot of crazies, which planet are U from?
what do you mean by "change direction"?
I am somewhat bewildered by the " change direction comment. I just got finished repairing someone's floor that this Client had himself butchered by going across grain. It was painfully hard to remove. I somehow get it with that multi direction herring bone pattern should be ok because I have done them , but on typical installed floor I would not . Did I miss something here ? Thank you.
sorry for taking so long to reply, I doubt it would have been so difficult to sand out if the floor hadn't been finished. It was probably the lacquer or finish they used. I ofcourse always say you should finish with the grain, its just that if you do a couple of diagonal cuts as you are going up the grits, it tends to keep the floor as flat as possible, and prevents the sanding machine itself from creating chatter marks or other imperfections in the floor. By the way i say that bad DIYers "butcher" the floor, how funny ;)
Great video! I'm about to refinish wide-plank pine floors that have had area rugs. The floor surface under the rugs is one color, while the exposed flooring is much darker. I've been told this is due to dirt and traffic. Any suggestions on grit sequence and what I should use as surface treatment (i.e. stain, sealer, poly...). Cheers!
read the refinishing hardwood floors article on the website, that's got suggestions on grits and finishes. Usually exposed areas have changed colour mainly because of UV rays
Thanks. Thought uv rays only made floors fade and get lighter though. If it is uv, do you think i can sand past the "damaged" layer?
UV can make oiled floors darker. The uv damage is shallow and should come out easy,its all new 1 mill down.
I need to get an article up about sanding pine. I will soon. If you want minimum UV damage in future then i suggest waterbased seal and waterbased polyurethane
top tips. Thanks
I am adding more hardwood floor to an already existing hardwood floor. Would you be open to a few questions?
Sure thing
Hi Ben.
Top video.
Have you ever heard of the virtues of using kerosene throughout the sanding process?
Kero, you must be fkn mad or an Aussie?? Only a handfull of us PROs in Australia know that trick....Ssshhhhh
The best flooring machine in the market Like Porsche among dump trucks REGARDS Ziggy Canada the floor guy
Great video. Do you have too change direction on every grit or just when you move up to the next grit?
great video!
short and sweet thanks
Parabens meu amigo
good video mate
Great Video I am doing a pine floor with heavy traffic including a dog,the floor has gaps between the planks,what filler would you use and what finish and how many coats,I want a high shine finish
Lynne
hello lynne macdonald, all that info is on the website!
Hi, what is the best way to fill the gaps? Is there a filler or something like the spongy gap filler? And with each do you sand first or second?
there is more information on their website, however you can run PVC glue and water mix but you will have the choking of the sanding pads more than normal if you go that route it's up to your budget and what you really want your floor to look like
very good! It would be good to see a video on all the types of Sanders and which to used for which floors etc:) If you haven't already done so:)
Clare Ellis check out my video refinishing hardwood floors yourself
@@HowToSandAFloor ok awesome thank you!!
`WTF :P i was like who is this hairy guy !! you are on here for so long ?? dude you must grow :P
I really enjoy your videos. Just have a question. Close to end of video you said to change directions to not get same patterns. Did you mean change from right to left?
How are you lifting your drum sander is it by mechanical switch or just muscle , or pressing downward on the handle.
saw a dude use this like a mop back and forth back and forth never lifting, floor had tiger stripes in the end and on the edges lots of dig marks
DesecratedReaper yeah its killer. After a few months of doing every day, you can get used to lifting up the drum at the very last second without causing a digmark, but doing it the way you said just never works.
If you have an old hardwood floor that was made back in the 1920s what grit paper should you use on that floor when you first start
on a floor that is slighly cupping would it be better to use 34 grit sandpaper or 60?
Hi there great videos, and thanks for sharing, I've just laid 210 square meters of new wood flooring in my house in France, the wood was direct from.a.saw Mill, I have brought a ex rental drum sander from home in the UK, can you advise what sealant your using for filling the gaps between the boards, and what grade of grits would you advice to use on this new timber. Looking forward to your help. And keep up the great videos thank you
Shoot me an email, you can find it, I can’t post it unfortunately!
Thanks Guys!!
When do you change the sand paper? Is there a easy way to tell whet it is time to replace with a new one?
can you hire these Lagler machines for DIY? if yes where if no what is the best brand to hire
I need a wiring diagram please 🙏
Do you resist the pull of the machine/ slow it down from its "natural" speed along the floor? Also can you cut the room in half at the middle?
Hi I have 4 areas to sand and they all lead into one another is best to sand all the areas first then then polish or would it better to do one room / area at a time you thoughts please... And what hire shop would you recommend to get all the equipment from especially the finishing in Sander
Regards
Peter
When you say "change direction to eliminate chatter marks"; do you mean change direction at a 90 deg angle-- or change at 20-30 deg angles and keep changing at that rate? Please, tell...I am a complete novice, going 'live' on a floor. I don't have a mock up hardwood floor sample. Any tutorials on making mock-up floor sample to practice sanding would be most helpful.
Natalie Kiernan what he means by ‘change direction’ is changing to sanding at an angle like you asked 20-30 degrees max, 45 degrees absolute max. The reason you don’t want to change to sanding 90 degrees to the original direction is that now you would be sanding perpendicular to the grain of the wood and you will inevitably have some scratches caused by this sanding that you don’t get out even after following this up with sanding with the grain again before finishing the floor. Worst part is that these scratches may not be apparent until you poly the floor, then they will stick out like a sore thumb.
@@stuartschindler9435 in the video though he is sanding a floor that is laid as a chevron meaning that he is never sanding parallel to the grain. I have never sanded a floor though, just trying to gather enough info before I finally do.
He sure swallows hard into the mic! Very annoying and makes me want to smash his teeth in! I'm sick and need help but I very angry hearing him smack his lips together and swallowing hard!
@@vikings844 So don't watch the videos, a pretty simple solution to your anger problem. Personally, I never noticed and I am learning a lot before I take the plunge and do my own floors.
I'm going to be doing some floors with heavy pet-urine damage. How much is too much to take it down? Are there chemicals I need to apply before the staining to kill the bacteria?
Dan Baughman Pet urine can go very deep indeed. It's the ammonia. It's actually ammonia that is used to smoke oak (you can buy smoked oak that is dark all the way through) so you can understand how deep it can travel. What i would recommend is just sanding it normally ignoring the stains until you get to the 80 grit, once you have done the 80 grit, you can put hydrogen peroxide on the stains, then put a towel over it and then rub an iron over it back and fourth, i have seen this make a huge difference. once stained you can barely notice them (but you still can). Check out my new ebook on the website! :)
Dan Baughman after you have done that you then do the final sanding of course (100 grit)
***** Fumed or smoked oak can also be made with muriatic acid and a pig troff
can you show us how to change the drum on this machine...
I've been looking for a belt sander like that but all I can find are drum sander. Who makes the belt sander like that... Please and thanks.
Thanks Ben
What about floor boards?
slowly lifting the drum is called feathering.
crY
vying
If you don't have access to a machine like that, will a hand held belt sander be usable? Be more work obviously.
Wat is die koste naastenby per vierkante meter, Hang maar seker af van die toestand, waar kan mens n kursus gaan doen om regte praktyke aan te leer, dankie
Hello from across the pond. Enjoyed your video/explanation/info...is that Hummel 7 horse power?
Absolutely NOT lol, its a 3hp sander. Now currently..the only sander on the market that is 7hp is the Galaxy floor sander
awesome !
Any good tips for not getting dig marks?
Can you explain what you mean by changing direction? I did not see you do that in this video, unless you mean backwards and forwards.
Sorry I didn't explain very well, I mean changing the direction that you are facing when you are sanding and, no, i dont demonstrate it in this video
@@HowToSandAFloor I am sorry, I kept watching your videos and you actually demonstrate how you do this, to smooth out a rough, uneven floor. My goodness these are good videos, thank you.
Great video! Quick question? Have you ever tried sanding belts/discs from Maverick Abrasives? I recently switched over to them from Norton & the belts have been performing significantly better...and their pricing was 20% better, believe it or not
I have never heard of the, are you based in england?
How were you lifting it up before getting to the edge? Couldn't tell
The lever on the handle
Hi Ben, loving your videos, they have really help me gain some confidence in doing my own Jarrah hard wood floors. Quick question... I had to lift some sticky vinyl tiles up and they have left sticky black glue on the wood. Is there a way to get that off before sanding? Would really appreciate your advice. Cheers
Graeme Miller wow, sanding glue off is tough, sanding jarrah is tough because it’s so hard, you have a double hard job on your hands, I’d start with 24 grit to get that glue off. How many metres (or feet) of glue is there?
@@HowToSandAFloor Hi Ben, thank you for replying 🙂 looks like I'm in for a tough time haha but I'm up for the challenge. The area is probably 8x1m. So there's no solvent I could use to try get it off or heat gun? I saw some people use a hot towel and then scrape it off?
hi .... I have used the diagonal method to eliminate the ripple effect in floors when varnished... also tried square buff sander and the trio buffer on different grits.... aswell as cleaning the wheels to allow smooth sanding as possible .... do you have any other tips
it sounds like you have done more than enough. Theres nothing else you can do, just remember there is a natural variation in the density of the wood. This causes it to be a little bumpy regardless of what you do. I would get it hoovered and lacquered if i were you, sounds like its going to look very good!
Great videos.
I am currently looking at sanding a basket weave parquet floor in my house that I've just moved into. I'm a complete novice but am fairly quick to learn and confident that I could give this a go...
One thing I have noticed though is that most of the tool rental places I've been looking at seem to only do drum sanders and not belt sanders; is this a problem, or can the same results be achieved?
Also, do you always start at 45 degrees to the grain? Surely if you start at 0 or 90 degrees it'll take big lumps out of it?
Oh oh... Do you ever have any problems with basket weave parquet strips coming up/loose or anything as you go over them?
Sorry for bombarding you with questions.
+Chris MacDonald did you go for this project yet?
+Scott Greenwood I didn't, been tempted for a long time now
+Chris MacDonald Slightly late reply, only slightly. I would sand it the same way I would sand any parquet floor, 45 degrees to the grain of all the blocks, maybe going straight on the final cut. If you have a very nice floor, I wwould personally save up and get it done professionally. If you want to do it yourself, I think you should buy my book and learn how to do it properly. Its not a long book but I do reveal all. Its on the website. I would say just have at it if it was pine floorboards, basket weave is not that common
Like an airplane. Exactly how my father explained it to me when he was training me.
Which do you prefer drum or belt?
belt! by a long way, the drums are not very good, but a lot cheaper!
What machine are u using and what grut sand paper
Can you use a 24 grit paper right after 16?
How much is that machine?
You should do a video on the real shite old wooden floors that have ridiculous gaps - aka my house :)
Coming soon I hope
Good
Go with the angle of the wood block,leaves a better finish
Hey Brent, I have a whole article on my website about why this isn't the best thing to do. For one thing its impossible because if you go with the direction of the grain on one line of blocks, you are de facto going in the opposite direction of the blocks on the next row.
How To Sand A Floor the company I work for has 40 years of experience 20 myself once coated buffed coated buffed again and 2 final coats it does not matter
I enjoy your videos though
If you want a flatter better looking floor, it needs to be done the way I'm doing it. When you cross the blocks perpendicular, it digs them out. Its much more aggressive on those blocks, this is what tends to make the floor uneven and lumpy. This is nwfa method, lagler manual, 50% of my work is sanding parquet floors. If however, you dont want to take the time to get the linear scratches out, it is easier to hide the scratch pattern by doing it your way. But do it my way and take the time to remove the scratches and you have a flat floor.
How To Sand A Floor we did a lagler course and they even said to do it with the block on the last few finishing cuts,we mainly do leisure centres anyway,nice to talk to a fellow floor sander
I am looking for a heavy duty sander to buy
Can you sand out water/pet stains out of the wood? I have been over a couple of spots with a drum sander and they are not nearly as light as the surrounding wood. And if I can 't sand them out do I have to use a darker stain to blend in these spots with the rest of the wood floor? I think the space needs a lighter stain like golden oak to brighten it up but I don't think that will work on dark spots on the floor.
water marks usually come out, pet stains penetrate very deeply because of the amonia, there is information on the internet about removing pet urine stains using hydrogen peroxide, a couple of my customers were successful with that (never removes it 100%) then we stained it and you couldn't see where the stains were without pointing them out
Thanks for the fast response. Guess I have to use the darker stains instead of lighter ones.
Good luck, always a pain in the butt when you find pet urine stains.
I love cat urine stains!!! When the 36G belt hits it the first time, you blast out the house with the most horrible ammonia smell ever. It drives the the customers away and you can get to business! Give those areas the Union Jack crosscuts in all directions, they will come out.
how do i know what grit to use?
Ben, do you have any suggestions dealing with shellac? It keeps gumming up my sander and holding up my refinishing. I'm getting maybe 3 square feet of sanding per abrasive before it's worthless. I've tried denatured alcohol, but that mostly just turns the shellac into a sticky mess and requires me to use up a lot of cloths instead. I've tried using steel wool and denatured alcohol, but it gums up the steel wool after just a few passes.
You need to sand it with lowest grit possible with a heavy duty drum sander like this Hummel. Start low and work your way up
the hire shop had alot of different grits, which should i be using?
You need to start with 36 (unless your floor is very flat and there isn't much damage) and your way up through 60, 80, 100 and 120. But you can read this and a whole lot more on the website www.howtosandafloor.com
Nice video. How far does the average sheet of paper go?
i know i’m about 4 years late but there is no “average” for the sanding belts. every single floor is extremely different and they have many different variables
Bu-i-ful!