I was (kind of) wrong!!! I'm retesting this cheap inverter! WZRELB 600 watt 24 volt inverter
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 21 апр 2020
- I did a video a few weeks back on this inverter and it performed horribly. This video is a follow-up because the way the inverter was acting did not make sense to me and I wanted to make sure I didn't do something wrong. I came up with a few theories but I don't think I figured out why it has issues with some appliances. It turns out that it is kind of a beast but there is a trick to it that I still don't completely understand. If you know why this thing does what it does, help me out! I'm totally baffled.
Tip Jar
Bitcoin: 13BuhjFpfM1xJYmdWvL97KTTq69iFpBPhd
Litecoin: MKE1SjtMhc2rZX1WNsW1NYKKoschwv3UPx
Digibyte: SUYBZc3gYGbmcjTeJkhs1sZAXnJKQ1Q4bD
Dash: XxEeHuc83qh5gXCcSwAwXFWS85u9mr3ruQ
Link for this inverter: www.amazon.com/WZRELB-Reliabl...
this inverter is to small for high frequency switching devices like your 12v charger, even the larger models will not like it but will run it. it messes with the inverters switching ability to make the higher voltage.
Thanks for the info! That explains the terrible noises it makes right before it shuts off ;) I guess it will be reserved for simple resistive loads!
Btw, I enjoy your videos! Lots of fun!
@@diyrenewableenergyelectron4996 they do fine with 99% but you founds that 1%er :D
@@diyrenewableenergyelectron4996 thank you!
Figures! 😂
I have a 1500w same manufacture for the last 4 years and it works flawlessly. I run my entire 30’ RV from it with 2 big Deka 6 volts in series.
Thats awesome! I am pretty happy with this unit after understanding its limitations and wouldnt mind getting it a big brother 😀 thanks for watching!
I have a 12v 800w version of this in my campervan and its been superb so far, maybe a bit noisy when the fan comes on with high continuous load. I've ran power tools from it and even small electric heaters. Mostly I use it to power my laptop and monitor plus occasional blender and charging various devices, plenty of juice for me. Idle consumption is around 8-10W. Later versions have a remote to turn it on and off which is handy.
Nice! Glad to hear it has been reliable for you. This one from the video is still chugging along. Thanks for watching!
Podria mantener una mini refrigeradora de forma continua con este inversor ?
Since this is a HF inverter design, it works well with devices that either appear as resistive loads or have only a small difference between real power and apparent power. Assuming the output is filtered reasonably well, devices that use switchmode power supplies should run just fine along with devices that have a resistive load. Devices that have a high surge or inductive load probably won't run very well on this inverter.
If you want to run inductive loads or loads with high surge current, you should look for LF inverters. Inverters that are installed in houses for off-grid installs are almost always LF inverters since they can handle the surge and inductive loads and most often can also handle the higher needs of a whole house inverter.
Thanks for the comment! I bought a LF inverter from sigineer and it handles surge loads and inductive loads with ease! What a difference!
@@diyrenewableenergyelectron4996 BUT... linear circuits are just 67% efficient, bulky, heavy and hooter, vs switching mode (class D) 92~96% efficient...
Very very good inverters, they are truly reliable. I have a 24v 3000watt and it powers 60% of my 2 bedroom home comfortably.
I'm pretty happy with this little unit. It is great for resistive loads and charging odds and ends around the house. Thanks for watching!
I also support many inductive load explanations here. I saw that with my 600W Giandel pure sine wave inverter too. I plugged in my A/V amp (rated 250W) to it along with some other resistive loads(very small like 50w) . With power meter they consumed less than 300W while running. So I thought would have no problem. But the moment I turned on A/V the inverter shut off and never recovered. I found that the A/V has lot of inductive power electronics like transformer inside. I measured an inrush current of 12Amps at 120V which is 1400W for a short duration. As the peak of my inverter is 1200W, it made inverter go crazy and never recover. Learnt a lesson about inductive loads afterwards.
Thanks for sharing! Experimentation is a lot of fun, especially when you learn these limitations before you REALLY need the inverters (power outage).
@@diyrenewableenergyelectron4996 Yep, prepare while you can
Can you check if the voltage from the hot line on this inverter is 60 volts and the neutral???...is the inverter ground prong in the inverter...connected to the neutral??? Thanks
I will double check when I have a chance but I distinctly remember reading that the neutral isn’t ground-neutral bonded. I read that the hot side produces 60v from ground and the neutral also produces 60v from ground (in the opposite direction) to produce “120v”. The appliances usually don’t really care, but it causes problems for some people. I’ll check mine and see what I get though!
Yes. The important thing is that this inverter are not to be connected to the breaker panel on the house. These inverters are basically to be used with an extension cord...in where the ground prong in the appliance will be basically floating.
@@tonypower5625they wired these incorrectly from the factory. The outlet hot or line is connected to the neutral on the board. If you correct the polarity and relabel the terminal bus connections it can be earth grounded and neutral bonded. I have the 5000w 24v inverter that I swapped the pc neutral and hot to the outlet and it has been connected to a main panel and earth ground running 24/7 for over 3 months powering my fridge at an off grid cabin. Once you correct the polarity you can neutral bond and earth ground without blowing it up. It also eliminates the 60v issue once the neutral and ground are bonded (at one location only). These are very good inverters they get a bad rap because the factory missed the wiring diagram. The newer black units with the “horizontal white outlet/receptacle is wired correctly. I have a 3000w of that model and have opened it up.
I made videos of this and emailed WZRELB reliable and their response was dismissive.
So the issue here is that the inverters have a super easy time with resistive loads which is your coffee make and heaters. Where it has a harder time is with things like inductive loads where you have to compensate for something called a "power factor". For example, lets say you have a 500w motor that consumes that when its running. Inductive loads like a motor can have a power factor of 0.5 meaning you have to have a power supply that can put out 1000w of juice. Willing to bet that DC DC power supply used on the charger has a really crappy power factor rating killing the inverter. The watt meters on the inverter will typically show average load without power factor compensation. Look on amazon for a "kill a watt" plug in power meter for 10 bucks. Aside from measuring stuff in watts, it can display power factor as well.
I knew about high surge loads (power factor) being an issue, so I didn't try my refrigerator or sump pump but I didnt expect a little 12v charger to cause that same issue as well. However, what you said makes sense in that it is probably very cheaply made. I don't doubt that. I think I will mess around with the kill-a-watt meter a little bit and see if I can find a spike in the wattage when the charger goes to 15 amps.
@@diyrenewableenergyelectron4996 Getting there but surge load and power factor are two different things. As another example, old skool crappy CFL light bulbs may have stated 20 watts in use bu most of them have a power factor of 0.5 meaning the power supply needs to be capable of outputting 40 watts. The surge from a refrigerator starting up is called a "locked rotor" current, that is the maximum juice it needs just to start turning and yeah, that can be 10x higher than running watts which is why most inverters choke.
Thanks for the clarification. Ill do some research so I'm more well versed about power factor!
@@diyrenewableenergyelectron4996 maybe your amp clamp can capture the spike, i did this with my fridge and was shocked how high it spiked, but that was some time ago and dont remember what it was
I dont think the model I have can do it, but I need to buy one like Lithiumsolar's. It has a setting that can capture peak amperage. A shop vacuum spiked to 70 amps in one of this tests 😱
Thanks for the suggestion and thanks for watching!
this is just a guess but possibly bad solder joint either with one of the MOSFETs or on the inside somewhere where the wire connects to the AC plugs or maybe just a poor connection there.
Thanks for the suggestion! Ill have to dig into it. Thanks for watching!
@@diyrenewableenergyelectron4996 you are welcome
The items it did not power may need a pure sine wave to function properly. At the price you said this was, it is likely a modified or even a square wave inverter. Those do not put out "clean" power, and some items just have to have that clean juice to make them function properly. Typical items that need that pure sine wave can be microwaves, laser printers, 3d printers, variable speed tools, some battery chargers, and some medical equipment, to name a few.
Of course, there are items in that list that will run okay without the pure sine wave (depends on the brand and build, etc) but in some cases, even if they run, they will not be operating efficiently.
Pure sine wave inverters have come down in price, and you can find a 2000 watt one for about $180-$220 on average. (and a 1000 watt one for about $130) - It would be interesting to pick one of these up (or borrow one) and give the items another test.
The only other thing that I can think of is most inverters have a floating type ground. That is, they do not have the same ground as your house and likely your solar grid. (A wire going to a stake in the ground) - This is not usually an option with inverters mounted in a boat or an RV rolling down the highway. 😁
If you stick a common circuit tester in it, it will like be showing open ground, - potential of electrocution. If your inverter has the external ground post or screw, you could try running a wire from it to a ground in whatever place it is being used in. (Also, mounting it to a metal surface can help, if it has raised mounting flanges. If it does not, then I would not do that step, due to most have vent holes in the bottom, and without the raised mounting rails, you may be blocking some venting.) In these cases, the N and G wires can be jumped together if they are at zero volts. This often tricks the inverter in to thinking it has an earth ground. (like jumping the green wire to the white wire on a socket in your house will make a socket tester show the electric socket is grounded properly.
With all this said - I am not a licensed electrician, and all of this should just be considered as possible steps and reasons. Everyone should do their own research and/or hire a competent and licensed electrician for any help they need. (PSA over now)
Cheers!
Thanks for all of the info! The company makes larger inverters, I thought about getting one to see how it handles it. I've seen one of their 8000w units start a big air compressor (shout out to goingoffgrid). Thanks for watching!
@@diyrenewableenergyelectron4996 I will be ordering a 2000 watt pure sine wave inverter tonight before hitting the sack....We had a power outage a few days ago that lasted about 6 hours. I had a 800 watt inverter and hooked my chest freezer to it....No problems at all.
But then I got greedy and wanted to hook up my fridge too.
Like a dummy, I decided to plug them both in at the same time, since once the freezer compressor kicked off, it was only drawing about 1 amp. It worked fine for a while, then the freezer compressor kicked back on while the fridge compressor was running, and the magic smoke was released from the inverter.
The smart thing to have done, would have been to run them one at a time, and alternate them about every 20-30 minutes.
Everything would have stayed chilled/frozen and I would still have the little inverter, and would not be spending $225 tonight- Doh!! 😢🤣
Happens to the best of us! Alternating is a clever idea. Hopefully this new one holds up like a champ!
Have you tried putting it on an oscilloscope?
No, I haven’t. I should probably buy an oscilloscope. Lol. Thanks for watching!
The input cables are the issue.
I have the 24v 800w version, I dies 3min in when I plug in my 15w laptop charger (it has a ground pin) however It can run a 100w pedestal fan no prob😂
Some of the loads around the house make these cheaper inverters go haywire. Thanks for watching!!
i have made same tests with my 500watt reliable power... its more capable than writen ;)
Awesome! I'm pretty happy with the performance overall. Thanks for watching!!
in a few days i will be receiving my 48v 5k psw inverter from this company. it will be bouncing back and forth between two 20kw 48v banks.
What do you plan to power? Thats a nice size inverter!
@@diyrenewableenergyelectron4996 for now only a few computers, big tv, some xbox's, some lights, a 1500 watt microwave and regular sized fridge. i can already do all that on my 3500 psw inverter, but i really want my batteries to last so im moving into 48v so i can run less in parralle and some in series, 4s4p 12 fla 130ah 16 batteries. i plan to slowly expand my solar panels as on bad days of sun my batteries dont get fully charged. im going to make sure i get a full charge in full over cast days lol
Nice! FLA definitely NEEDS a full charge each day, they die quickly if they are partially charged most of the time. Glad you are expanding the solar to make sure the batteries last! The only thing that you mentioned that would even remotely concern me (and it's not a big concern at all) is the surge on the fridge. I'm guessing the 5kw unit is so large that even though it's a high frequency inverter, it will brute force its way through the surge. Please report back after you get it up and running. I love hearing from viewers.
@@diyrenewableenergyelectron4996 i kinda knew about the battery thing about state of charge...kinda. its all new to me and i am the type that needs to see for him self even if it means i need to learn the hard way, another example of that is that i have 16 brand new 12 130ah batteries in parallel. everyone tells me this is bad and i even started to repeat it but then i was like "hey maybe i can prove it, one way or another" and shoot a video. i have asked around and every says just dont do it and i say why...lol.
anyways i have two big separate banks, one is 12v and the other is 48v (to try it the "right way") for a total of 32 batteries. for the record my 3500 psw inverter, 7kw max, handles the fridge kicking on and the 1500 watt micro wave no problem at the same time all while playing xbox on 65in tv and two gaming computers, but usualy not gaming on them.
i did watch the amp spike on that fridge and it was huge, but i really dont remember what it was.
its nice having such a huge battery bank as i call pull a continuous 600 watt load for 12 hours and watch the voltage drop only from say 12.6v to 12.2v. i should have went with lifepo, but i was able to get all my 32 fla deep cycle brand new with 2 year no questions asked free replacement warranty for only about $130 a piece and pro-rated after that. plus i needed to cut my teeth on something now with a local source then branch out in a few years
It sounds like you have a solid system and a good handle on it! Good job!
My wzrelb 3000 watt inverter from reliable power tripped my equipment and then started to smoke. Power maybe reliable? ... Not recommended. Other you tube reviews show zero short circuit protection. Risk of fire or damage to unit is possible and therefore expense.
Dang! What were you powering?
It’s a 600 watt inverter but the max total is 1200 watt peak.
Correct. I am just surprised that it actually was able to perform as well as it did considering the cost and overall build quality. I wouldn't want to depend on it but a very good value for non-critical non-inductive loads. Thanks for watching!
ive noticed that also with some power generators it seems to use some of that peak power as long as you dont exceed it.
So you plugged in a charger from the batteries you are trying to charge? no wonder you are having issues...you are pulling out more power than you can put in when you do that with the conversion with the charger, it seems to you pulling the voltage "out from underneath it" so to speak. it appears based on what I can see is you are draining the capacitors in the inverter with tha current draw from the charger, since its the same connection you are pulling and charging from...
The test leads that come with any inverter are junk.
It sure seems that way! The Duracell I tested in another video had decent wires, but they were undersized. Go figure 😒
Thanks for watching!
My wzrelb 3000 watt inverter from reliable power tripped my equipment and then started to smoke. Power maybe reliable? ... Not recommended. Other you tube reviews show zero short circuit protection. Risk of fire or damage to unit is possible and therefore expense.
Dang! Can you give more details about the situation? That sucks. Thanks for watching!