Cheap 8000w Reliable Inverter, That Works! WZRELB
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- Update: You can purchase a similar 48 volt battery to the one I used in this video. The 48v modules are being sold at Batter Hookup. Here is an affiliate link: amzn.to/30zewG4
Testing the new updated version of 8000 watt inverter from Reliable Electric. This inverter outputs a pure sine wave, 120 volts AC. At 34 pounds it's light enough for mobile applications. I'm powering this inverter with my new 48 volt lithium battery that I made from a used Smart Fortwo EV car.
I've also tested the earlier version of this inverter, and it failed. That video is available here: • Cheap 8000w Reliable I...
This new version works way better than the first version. Reliable Electric has upped their game.
This inverter is usually called HF, or high-frequency. That's because there is no massive transformer inside. Usually HF inverters can't handle large surge loads such as motors and compressors. So that's exactly what I used to test it!
Reliable Electric is also known as "WZRELB" I have seen it sold under both names.
Sometimes this inverter is available on Amazon, sometimes Ebay. The links sometimes change, sorry about that.
Amazon Link: amzn.to/2SyjCfy
There are (6) 48 volt batteries all wired together in parallel. Each battery has it's own BMS board for safety. BMS stands for battery management system.
This lithium battery came out of a 2013 Smart Fortwo EV (electric vehicle). It will be used in my DIY Powerwall for back-up power if the grid goes down. Off-Grid.
Thanks for watching. If you would like to help support the channel please check out Patreon, or use an affiliate link. Thank you.
/ davidpoz
We can chat and share project pictures on facebook: / davidpozenergy
“As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.”
Inverter in video was provided by Reliable Electric.
Hey, just my 2 cents on safety and reliability. This inverter is what they call a high frequency inverter. This means that the FETs or IGBTs switch very fast (usually 10s of MHz) this allows for the use of smaller transformers and allows for a cheaper product to be manufactured. One of the big disadvantages of HF inverters is their inability to handle large inductive loads like motors. You can hear a problem with the noise coming from your miter saw under load as it sounds too bogged down, perhaps from the inverters inability to handle the inductive reactance and back emf from the miter saw. For inductive loads and in general a low frequency inverter is better. They have much larger Xformers and are in general a much more robust product. Next problem: safety. This inverter violates dozens of electrical best practices to the point that I wouldn’t even run it in my home if not watching the thing vigilantly. They use paralleled automotive fuses, didn’t trim the FET leads sticking out of the board, used way under gauge wire for EVERYTHING, and don’t have enough (any?) AC output filtering. They don’t do neutral to ground bonding, don’t use proper electrical color coding and the efficiency is awful (85% is abysmal). Remember, ink is cheap! You must independently verify all claims made. Try putting a scope on the AC output and running a large load. You will likely see huge deformation from a pure sine wave. There’s more wrong with the inverter- it’s likely not UL listing or tested meaning that if (when) your house burns down due to the lack or proper protection circuits on the inverter, your homeowners insurance probably won’t cover it. That being said I’d love to get my hands on one to properly go though it and see everything that’s wrong and see if some of it can be mitigated as an aftermarket repair. Probably not though as the AC traces in the board look way undersized. Just my .02. Best, Ben
First I'll say I like everything you commented on, you sound very educated in inverters and electrical theory. Way above me.
In my dream setup I'd love to have a sweet workhorse LF inverter like a magnum or any other brand, but they are VERY expensive. inverters like this fill a gap for people who don't have that kind of money. If it IS reliable (the channel "going off grid" has one and taxes it pretty hard) then it has my upcoming purchase based upon how the company has handled issues, sells repair kits, and has upgraded designs. these HF inverters fill a low price market. If I know what NOT to power with it, and give it a gentle life then I think it'll fit my needs. Or would you suggest I try and find a used / repairable LF inverter? The only thing i've found weird about this company that I initially didn't like is that they named themselves in a way that will catch uneducated web searches, but I don't think they're taking advantage of people just by how I've seen them respond to problems. I'd love to get your feedback.
David, Your are helping more folks than you will ever know. You are giving us ideas ( and doing fails, so we don't have to) and show great detail in your videos. Thanks from all of us.
Your welcome, thank for such a nice comment.
The voltage went up. Pretty damn good design. Looks like they fixed whatever problem they had.
Thanx Dave 4 the video. It is the first time that I hear of a 8 kW Inverter. Last year and also in 2006 we in ZA (South Africa) had rolling Power failures. For weeks on end we had to cope with out electricity. I have looked for inverters hear. The strongest was 5 KW and it cost an arm and a leg. And also with a 5 Kw Inverter you must have a BIG power bank. Not just a motorbike or car battery. It look like for emergency needs, in ZA, that a 1.5Kw will be the min. But even that cost also an arm and with out the leg. Since 2006 I have bought 2 small ones. So I can use the lights, radio, TV and the laptop. It is two systems. Also our electricity is 220- 240 Volt. Thanx again.
Great vid. Thanks.
FYI -- Those power tools you used for testing (eg band saw) weren't under load so were not using their rated consumption.
Matt ! The DeWalt Miter Saw was under load, Barley... LoL
That one is built better than most of their units. I took the terminal wires and changed those to a copper bus bar and 4/0 on the battery cables inside I changed them to a 1/0 cables.
It defiantly seems to me that the wires are way to small. You might want to check the voltage gauge on the inverter, to make sure it is measuring right.
Great video, I always enjoy your videos!
Defiantly lick your fingers and touch the output
This is wonderful David. I think this company is really improving greatly. I have the 1000 watt pure sine of this Reliable Inverter and tested for about a year now. The result is impressive. I will soon upgrade.
Chukslis
I’d rather have several smaller inverters. If he has any problems he looses all 8k. If he had 2, 4K or 4, 2K he’d still have some power if there were any issues.
man they really cheaped out on the main terminal block coming out of that joker the ac side lol and pretty interesting how they chose to run the output wires straight through the metal hole with no gromet protecting it
very good. If you want to hit 8kW in power to test what this inverter can do, create a simple electrolysis bath. 1 bucket, 2 steel plates 20 cm by 25 cm and attach the wires to them. Then measure the voltage and amps as electrolysis progress. By adjusting up and down the steel plates submerging in the water you can vary the power amount which is being drawn. Start small at 1kw - by submerging the plates just a bit, then increase until a fuse blows off. see if it can hold that load for more then 30 mins. That will give you a pretty good idea. I did this under 240V since this is the voltage level in my country. For you might be different since electrolysis depends on voltage. In the video you only tested up to 4.5kw.
"Ohhhhhh man!!! All my equipment passed!!! No voltage drop!!! Ohhh wait...I'm still plugged into the house outlet"...LOL
I came by this video on accident and you know there should be some iq test and score before anyone can post videos. The only reason I left the video play because I was insulting it. My wife said from the other room who are you belittling now.. I then realized 15 min wasted of my life i will never get back.
The inverter is used to power the outlet.
Consider this a 4000W inverter with 8000W surge, you read it in the manual that the 8000 is twice the rated capacity. The surge allows for motor starting. At 4000W the 10 gauge wire is fine for the terminals. 10 gauge is for 30A 120VAC 3600W, use a 80% de-rating for continuous load of 24A. But that GFCI is for 15A plugs, and at most 20A terminals and pass through for the load side, which at 80% is only 16A, the 24A is overloading that GFCI.
Thanks. I agree that we need to de-rate this. You might enjoy the second round of testing: ruclips.net/video/TZbjy9t933E/видео.html
looks like the wire is only about 6 inches so it may handle 60 amps if you are worried double them up that is what I would do.
Or run your mains right to the board and not use the panel mounted terminal.
I would personally replace those connecting leads to a #6 AWG or metric equivalent of 25mm2...
I see fire in its future! Nothing looks capable of handling 60 amp. From the tin looking screw tab coming off the circuit board to the lug and wires running all around it.. I also don't like that there isn't a circuit breaker/ fuse for its receptacles. Its an ok rig if using it occasionally light duty and expect it not to last long. But for those duty's and thought of investment I would rather just buy a Honda generator that's a little more mobile and would not mount this inverter to the inside wall of my house! My two cents..
@@andrewbowden1076 LOL -- I am laughing with you --- not at you,! Needed a good laugh! Yes circut breakers are needed - specially drawing 60 amps at 120 volts.... although one would require a rather large battery bank to draw that much current for a long period electricity moves fast. I would not use it with out breakers, "UNPROECTED" specially on pumps, subpumps, ect.... Fire burns - current KILLS. so BUY HIGH QUALITY BREAKERS . If I remember you posted a video and mentioned something about breakers. I have bought used hi quality "Hubbell brand" Hospital Grade GFCI Receptacles at a swapmeet - I paid $3 for 5 3 -20 amp / 2-30 amp. They are worth 100 times that. Whats your life worth.... Keep testing - keep posting
@@andrewbowden1076 - There a good grid tie and/or grid tie company or brand you can recommend? 500 or 1000 watts? I'm looking to buy one to plug into an outlet and start generating. I'm seeing cheap stuff that's questionable. Let me know if there's one or a company you can recommend. I'm not going huge power, but I sure don't want faulty.
Nice setting there, David! I would also be concerned with those thin wires. I have a 40 kW battery pack (traction batteries) and I connected it to my VictronEnergy 5000/48V with a 00 (2/0) wire AWG - in Europe we use metric units - so 70mm2. It never heats up and the whole setup works perfectly. The Scotts have a saying: I am not so rich to save on quality. ;-) Hope, the inverter meets up your requirements and it will be indeed reliable.
That's a good saying.
The wiers are okay .. for 10cm not 10m
So they are thick enough due to Short distance
You Will need bigger leads from inverter to Distribution / Fuse box
Remember
DC THICK LEADS EVEN SHORT DISTANCS
AC not so THICK LEADS ... AND THIN WIER OVER SHORT DISTANCES ALLOWED
RISISTANCE AINT THE SAME IN A C ... AS ... D C
DIVID WATT WITH VOLT = A .. 8000 / 120-230 = 67A-35A No . Always whole nr
6:15 The ratings for chassis wiring is different from home wiring. Home wiring states 10AWG is for 30A based on the NEC. The max rating for 10AWG in chassis wiring is 55A. That being said, I personally wouldn't use it anywhere near that :)
Here in Thailand, just the other day, I saw on sale the equivelent of the last POS you had fail, and I smiled thinking 'no way' when I read the supposed rating. Yer gits what ya pays fer.
If you want the battery and inverter to last longer and start and run more appliances you should build or buy soft start technology. Also this inverter most likely does not have enough or none at all thermal compound between chip and heat sink. You should that it apart and apply thermal grease. You should also change out all the wires that are not really rated to handle in your opinion 60 amps. This is just my opinion. Thanks mate for the video.
Thanks.
Hard to say what that meter is measuring in voltage. I would want to hook up an oscilloscope and compare waveforms AC and inverter.
Amazing; that's exactly what I was going to recommend.
Cual es el precio del equipo
LMAO 🤣🤣🤣
Great vid David - the only thing I’d like to see what the sine wave actually looks like on a scope especially under load.
So would I. I've asked around to friends and family, but I can't find an oscilloscope for rent or borrow.
great tip on precharging the caps...I wondered about that...every time I turn on my inverter there is a big zap, doesnt feel good.
That tip is thanks to my viewers. Last video I posted a couple people suggested it. That's the awesome part of RUclips, sharing and learning.
You shouldn't need to "pre charge" the caps (in most home sized inverters) if you're using a disconnect or breaker. The entire point of a mechanical connection is to contain/avoid sparks. In the previous video David was open-air connecting the inverter directly to a 56V battery which is a bad idea. In this video he has DC breakers which should have been more than enough to handle the fairly limited inrush current (hint: he charged the caps in a second or so even through a resistor).
The other point to using a breaker/disconnect is that you can reliably disconnect power if something bad happens. Whereas with a direct wire connection the wire is bolted on and/or may fuse to the device/battery.
Hi Tom St Denis, I can see your point that the circuit breakers contain the spark. There was one other reason a viewer suggested pre-charging. He said the in-rush current could fry the BMS's. I don't know how much of a risk that is, but the BMS's are expensive. And it's good to know the caps charge in a second. I didn't know how long to leave the resistor on there. LOL
@@DavidPozEnergy Perhaps. Though for most home sized inverters the caps aren't that big that you're going to sustain a load for an appreciable amount of time. A BMS big enough to feed the inverter at load should be able to handle a few 100 amps for milliseconds. For comparison, hook up a 500F super cap to a battery and watch sparks fly :-) I have some of them ebay 500F caps and it takes minutes to charge up at several amps...
pre-charging won't hurt but it's an extra step you could in theory do wrong. You also have a high potential terminal floating around on the other side of the resistor that isn't protected against shorts.... e.g. if you drop the resistor on something that is grounded you will short that wire out.
@@DavidPozEnergy I think it is prudent..victron even has a special unit that does this exact function, charging caps then turning on a contactor...caps are a dead short to DC until charged and most inverters have a few caps to stabilize things.
Dave as far as wire guage concerns in real world applications I've seen some really undersized copper services feeding multidwelling buildings in Manhattan in my day... and when I tied these services in the math in my head said no freakin way.... but in the real world it works ... so I dont worry so much about slightly undersizing even a 60 amp draw on a rated 30 amp wire.... i think the codes are over the top but down in those manholes in the cities nonones looking if you know what i mean.... I've had the unfortunate pleasure to hold a single phase leg pulling 1100 amps on a 500 mcm cable the other 2 legs or phases were pulling slightly less.....i was up around the Columbus Circle area in a midsummer heatwave ........ the scenario was 8 sets if temporary 3 phase shunts feeding that big old building on the corner right by the Channel 7 ABC news building and those shunts were running hot and long about 300 feet from the street across the walk into the front door and down to the basement...(crazy scenario and getting political by the minute all the big shots were hanging around that afternoon someone screwed up... you might know the grid im talking about cause it went down completely in the summer and made the news its a trouble spot columbus network but one i wasn;t familiar with i was part of the downtown manhattan networks and didn't know the politics were thick up there , thick enough to put peoples lives at risk, just a note never put your life on the line for assholes you dont like) .....anyway the new services were pulled and waiting to be tied it was a short run of 80 ft through the conduit into the basement to retire the 300 foot temporaries.......so I tied that first set of 3 single phase in and wham the juice took the shortest path and i felt it tremble i put the amp probe on it thats when i saw almost 1200 amps and I had to cut it before it melted this was all in a matter of miinutes but it was hairy and scary.... shortly after that I packed my shit and left that job .pretty much for good... not because it bothered me but because i thought the company was full of shit and didn't appreciate my labor.... and in the back of my mind i had the strange sensation someone wanted me to burn in the manhole that night..... lets just say I made a few enemies in that company..... but alls good now that was 17 years ago.... i've applied my skills into home renovation now..... but anyway I like your channel and ever since I hillbilly rigged my predator 4000 to run my entire house for an entire week back in 2015 ive been interested in the off grid You Tube scene.....
I am no electrician but I have seen video of the basements in new York and the mess from floods and rats and god only knows. Glad you made it out alive, lol
@@giggleherz9491 thanks bud... yea i learned alot working in the streets on NYC... but what i learned the most was the politics of Corporate America .. and a real good feeling for the aristocracy within the corporate world and how the money involved gives them the upper hand and picking who and who will not have access to a descent quality of life in this country... and most of what i know leads me to believe a civil war is just ove the horizon.... between the haves and have nots.....
unlike your first test, you're hooking up only one device at a time not getting anywhere close to the load put on the other. This is not even close to a comparable test, Reliable Electric must love you for this as most people would not understand the difference between a heavy load and an extremely heavy load. I was born at night but not last night.
You might like part 2 of testing this inverter: ruclips.net/video/TZbjy9t933E/видео.html
The redesign of the new version is way better than the original...but like you I am concerned about the smaller gauge AC lines on the output.
I will be checking out this new one...if I do get it I will upgrade those output lines to something that can handle 67 Amps
Sounds good. They did get hot during my full load test: ruclips.net/video/TZbjy9t933E/видео.html
you get all happy when motors start well there was no load you should have been sawing through a 4x6 then you could get all happy!
Was gonna say the same thing. That's where motors draw the most current, when under load. Or stalled.
@@HobkinBoi Stalled, definitely. It's referred to as locked rotor current. Typically 5 to 6 times greater than max running current.
I'd replace the inboard wires to the terminal for 4 gauge, and the negative & positive battery wires for 0 gauge. I'd go with welding cable to as it's true to spec OFC, super cheap and made in the USA. Better to be safe then sorry. Also, a lot of older car audio amplifiers used that same design, of sandwiching the FET's between the board and the heatsink. Makes for a more efficient heat transfer. Amps like Soundstream, Audio Art and Genesis all used that design.
That's cool that the design is used in some car amps.
Cool -- even for $1400! Of course, the real test will be of long-term durability -- daily use over a few years.
Thanks for your input on these units. I'd recommend glasses as ppe for future electrical endeavors. Just sayin...
Definitely agree. High current shorts can easily throw molten metal quite a distance.
chassis wiring and power transmition tend to have different amperage values.
Did you check to see if the earth is hot ground, if you volt test neutral to earth on the inverter legs (should be no volts) and also test positive to ground they should only be 120 volts on the positive leg, (neutral should have no voltage and most likely is connected to the same leg as the earth)
if neutral and positive is 60 volts on each then you should be careful connecting the neutral to a house fuse box as it will destroy the inverter (if house fuse box is neutral to earth bonded) but I don't believe reliable do that any more splitting 60v between L and N (I could be wrong)
I guess you should use a thermal cam as 8kw on that cable looks like it's going to cook (case off to use thermal cam)
I just checked so I could respond. There is 60 volts between hot and ground, and 60 volts between Neutral and ground. So, I think it's called "live" ground. Darn. I was not expecting that. I've tested my 3000 watt inverter and it is not that way, meaning no voltage between ground and anything. Darn, darn, darn.
@@DavidPozEnergy if house fuse box neutral is bonded to ground you would need to remove that (makes it a pain to switch between mains power and battery power)
I guess the boom is caused by 60v neutral bonded at the fuse box to ground because people don't expect the inverter to be like a split phase (think it's called half waveform 60v on each leg at half frequency)
the off grid youtuber had this issue with some reliable inverters and some people blowing up there own inverters (sure the old 8kw like one you got only has one live)
But I guess it's good I pointed this out to you as the moment you hooked it up to your house main fuse box it would of gone with a bang the moment you switched on the inverter (as I assume the house fuse box would be neutral bonded to Earth)
You are correct, that my neutral and ground are bonded in my main circuit breaker box. That is the one and only neutral to ground bond in the house wiring system. I'll have to keep this inverter in isolated systems, separate from my house wiring.
@@DavidPozEnergy I understand from a load reason why they do it, but failing to have warning that it's a actually a half wave L & N (if that's what it's called) inverter can lead to boom inverter problems
I got this brand in a 24v 4000watt model, will be tying it into my solar system this weekend. The only thing I don't like about it so far is it's low voltage cutoff would drain the batteries to near dead & that kills longevity so looking for an outboard kill switch to shut it down before it drains batteries under 75%.
Higher-end (more expensive) inverters will have programable voltage cutt-offs. Outback, Schnieder, Victron, etc.
If you check, you might find that the wires don't have to be as thick when they are pure silver. The silver wires will carry about 5 times that of copper.
So, it is my guess that you output wires inside the inverter are in fact silver. It's OK, most people don't even know that. Also, where they just soldered those wires,
that is not solder made of tin and lead. It is Silver Solder, and it requires a bit higher heat to melt it good enough to weld it, you have to use a map gas torch.
Map gas torches put out a much higher temperature than common butane gas.Here are the temperature differences, (Butane Torch =1,430 *F)(if you use butane like
oxygen-acetylene, by adding the oxygen you can achieve a higher temp of 2,610 "F), ((now if you use a propane Torch you get about 3,600 "F), add oxygen and get close
to 4,087 "F). So, what temperature will you get from ((Map Gas about 3,730 "F), add oxygen to get close to 5300 "F)), (oxygen-acetylene of about 6,332 "F). That's HOT.
So, before you go out to use these gases and Torches learn how tou use them first. SAFETY IS CRITICAL ! ! Also, All of these gases are deadly poisonous if breathed
even one breath of them will kill you, almost instantly, it causes the lungs to collapse and destroys the tissues that make the lungs function. Welding without a positive
air supply is very dangerous and can easily kill a welder. OH, well, I tend to rattle on about things , what the heck, free education. Good stuff to know for survivalists.
That’s a good brand I had 2 of them and work flawlessly
The wire coming out of the back grill is unprotected could be cut by rubbing against the grill ! Should pass trough a rubber grommet !
I agree.
He noticed wire gauge, heat sinks, and other very interesting stuff that I would also look at. He took it to 7,080 Watts. That's pretty cool for us who are in the market.
About Wire gauge vs. Current... with the very small run, this is likely sufficient. It's called "chassis wiring", and has very different rules than transmission. The voltage drop would be minimal, resulting in the power across it (heat) to be small. Stranded wire has lower resistance than solid wire... for example:
If the wire was 10AWG equivalent, 49/27 stranding, at 6" long, each wire would only have 0.000545 Ohms, and at 66 Amps that's 0.03597 Volts drop, which results in 2.374 Watts across that 6" wire. If it were very high stranding like 105/30, then you have 0.00049 Ohms, 0.03234 Volts, 2.134 Watts. It will get a little warm, but well within even 80°C insulation specs.
When adding loads, you can NOT use the label ""Maximum current draw" rating... that would be with the tool fully loaded to its maximum possible load. Unloaded draw is a small fraction of that amount... a 9-Amp rated saw might only draw 1 Amp without loading it down. Use a Kill-a-Watt meter and read VA.
When you hook up a load and the Voltage climbs, that's a sign of an imbalanced feedback circuit... it's trying too hard to correct for the load... there should be NO change in a good design.
Inductive loads (AC motors), when unloaded, have a VERY bad Power Factor... the current and the voltage are way out of phase, which is harder to handle than a nominally loaded motor.
I don't think that wire would be any good while technically your calculation are right I doubt they used anything special being Chinese made and metric cable equivalent is 6mm2 with 75c insulation which Australian standards rate at a maximum of 50A before derating if I were going to use that inverter I would swap them out for 16mm2 which is about 5awg but a 6awg would be fine we just don't have an equivalent
Don't like the way the wires are routed through the case with no insulation or protection for wire cuts or abrasions.
I would add grommets for the wires. You don't want mega amps getting shorted!
Outside cable dimensions are a combination of wire plus insulation. I have seen large wire with thin insulation. Also you should have measured the starting amps. Your running amps topped out at 24A or 2880 watts.
24.3 Amp 121 v
É diferente
2 things, smaller wire is OK on very short runs and the mosfet legs sticking up thru board will help heat dissipation.
That's a good point - I did think at first that it looked very lazy not to trim the legs, but anything that helps to dissipate heat is a good thing, even if the effect would be marginal.
Lolol. The “donuts” (inductors) don’t have the full current running through them. Some components are parallel to the load etc.
The proper name for the donut is a "toroid!"
I bought the 6000 watt version to replace a 3000 watt inverter. The 3000 is the same brand as the Inverter you are comparing the 8000 with. It's lasted twoyears and it still runs strong, just has a little trouble starting the AC system. The house is completely off grid. The new inverter worked well for 24 hours. Then it blew its top. Literally. Lots of sparks and smoke. I'm sending it back to amazon for a refund but still need to decide on another inverter to replace the 3000 with. Not sure I want to try another one of these.
Sorry to hear that. I ran my house for over a year on an Aims 6kw. Currently I'm using Growatt 5000ES and is working well. (videos on my channel of both)
@@DavidPozEnergy yesterday I picked up 10kw Treeline Power Systems {Sigineer} inverter. It’s way overkill but should last forever. The Company owner had one torn down and showed me all the goodies. The Transformer is massive and the control electronics are solid. And it only weighs 186 pounds! LOL. It’ll be a week or so before I install it. Waiting for the trolly system parts to lift it into place. Will post a video of the whole process.
the plug you used it your video looks like a GFI plug? this works with a floating ground?
I Guess so. In an upcoming video I'll have to connect more outlets to try and load the inverter up with 8kw. I'll try some outlets that are not GFCI
Leigh Amos , GFCI receptacles do not require a ground reference to function properly. They monitor the imbalance between hot and neutral to determine when to trip. BUT in this situation they will NOT function anyway because the fault current cannot go back to the inverter neutral since the inverter has no ground reference. The neutral of the inverter would need to be grounded to the earth for the GFCI to trip.
Per electrical code…. Short jumps of wire will have lower over-all wire resistance end to end than of course longer runs of wire, so in theory they should build up less heat and take higher current ratings. A short run of a few inches should be able to take a lot more current than a run of several feet would… Specifically by chart, 90 feet of #10 gauge would take only 30 Amps, but cutting that by a 1/3 of the length to 60 feet would boost the amperage by 2/3 up to 50 Amps… so I'm fairly confident that a few inches can likely handle the 66 actual Amps at that length/ampacity curve that it would take for 120V AC power at up to 8000 Watts.. Extrapolating that curve (if straight linear), then 40 feet would take up to 70 Amps. Fairly safe to say those wires are more than adequate. Were it DC current, it would be a completely different story then…. but you are dealing with AC which doesn't heat wire up nearly as much because of its alternating directional nature.
(by formula: P=IV, or Power(in W)=I or current(in Amps) * voltage (in Volts), thus by algebraic reworking, (P)/V=(IV)/V becomes P/V=I and so your amperage is 66 as derived by 8000(W) / 120(V) = 66(Amps)).
Excellent explanation, Thank you.
Compressors don't start under load. They have an unloader valve that bleaeds out the air between comp and tank. There is a check valve at the tank. It's the hiss you hear when the compressor shuts off once its full. Once running it then has a load and will work the motor more but does not effect that up surge. Just an fyi
Thank you.
On those wires short is g[d but you can probably replace them with some 8 gauge or something but glad they got you one that works
It’s probably 8000w across the 3 wire outlet and the 4 lower output sockets
Гарний і цікавий огляд, дуже якісна і добротна збірка інвертора
Дякую!
I have that exact clamp meter from amazon. Love it. The thinner wires in the new one, it could be that they are full copper wires, while in the old one they were copper mixed with other metals that did not conduct as well
OMG it finally worked
Yes the AC output terminal wires seem to small for handling 8000 watts. I recently had customer burn up his AC connection block on an Aims Inverter with only 4K of 120v with that same gage wire. I am beefing that up for him now.
Wire ratings can vary based on their environment. It might be rated for higher in an air flow area, I don’t know for sure.
love these vids.. Please update us in 6 months if you use it regulary
Good call on the output wire size.. 10 AWG for 8000W, 66 Amps seems way low.. That tells you they don't expect this inverter to produce 8000W for very long!
David you have a future on QVC!
The wire distance from pcb to terminal is short, for that distance the wire gauge is fine.
Thanks.
13 amp on the compressor equals approx. 1586 watts at 122vac. Even with the starting "in rush" of 5 times the the watts are only 7960 watts, easily within the 8000 watts continuous and only half of the 16000 watts that allows for the increased in rush. So why is that awesome for a 8000 watt inverter? Especially since it is rated for continuous 8000 watt and peak 16000 watts? How about doing a real test and put a load of say 6000 watts for about 30 minutes on the inverter and then start your air compressor load and lets see if the 16000 watt peak rating is an accurate rating. If it passes, then that mean the inverter does what it claims. Awesome is reserved for "above and beyond" performance not "as advertised" performance. FYI power is in "watts". Power equals volts times current. P=VI. Very nice video and love the enthusiasm and the video does show how easily an inverter that is rated well above the power draw can operate various shop item. You have some very nice shop items, congrats!
Thanks for your comment. I've had inverters in the past that could not start the compressor, even though the math on inrush says it should. So I like when things work. LOL. You might like part two of my testing when I load this inverter up more. ruclips.net/video/TZbjy9t933E/видео.html
my god man, you're clearly not an electrical engineer! It's very clear these are totally different topologies, with the newer item definitely using PWM switch mode.
If he were an EE he could afford a 6.8 gigiwatt power plant complete with flux capacitor.
*That's a heck of a unit. You can run just about anything off of it . Have fun with it . Id like to make a mobile generator with a power invertor* DexterousX
8000 watts at 120 volts is about 66 amps. Also I would like to see that output on a scope, as it does boast a Pure Sine wave. A standard house wiring is 15-20 amp breaker per leg. I would breaker that in similar fashion...leads to the question of if they actually ARE using large enough wire on the output?
Nice vid. Thumbs up
Remember that House wiring and Chassis Wiring has different ratings for wiring.. So that wire could be 90 degree wiring rated for the distance and the amps.. still light but not an expensive fix..lol
Am I missing something or did I just watch a video of a guy testing an 8000W inverter with ~3600W and then call it good?
This is the first video with this inverter. I'm currently working on wiring in more outlets so I can bring the inverter up to 8kw. Or at least try, we will see if it can handle it.
Are you sure it wasn’t ~7,200W ?
David sticka O scope to it and show us the signal it generates, if it is making a pure sine wave then you got something good and it will save you a lot of power and money in the long run as a whole, battery bank will last longer , and devices will last lonmger cause they will run cool. Remember the cleaner the signal the higher the efficiency. Theoretically a perfect sine wave would flow on regular metals as if they were super conductors , assuming you are driving the amps at the correct resonant frequency , like 432 hz
At some point I'll save up for an oscilloscope and do that. Thanks for watching.
That inverter could probably power my entire house in a power outage
Oh man that is one cool inverter. Now I want one !
That was great David, and I'm really pleased to see you demonstrate the precharge resistor I suggested last time!
I think I would go for this inverter based on this test, though I only have a 6kWh homemade battery pack!
Thanks for suggesting it Andy. I'm grateful you, and so many others, want to share your tips. I wouldn't go buy an inverter from just one day of testing. Let me torture it first to see if it holds up.
@@DavidPozEnergy Look forward to it, but don't worry, there's no chance of me being able to afford one for a good while yet!
@@DavidPozEnergy yes, torture test for sure, be good to see wire temps under extended load but still awesome to see an inverter handle startup spikes, the test seemed all too professional and tame, no sparks, no smoke, no one running for the doors ha ha. great video
@@MagivaIT its great wires are fine,distance is good David, but can I afford one in Jamaica
David... may be The mosfet in the new version change...so is very good inverter.....
Woh man that's en efficiency of 95% + .... really good..
Have you tried a 12 volt golf cart Battery?
They are extremely deep cycle even more than a marine battery.
The cost compares as well.
The best golf cart battery brand is trojan.
I live in a community that has golf carts on streets.
Often guys will buy the cheaper brands not worth it.
I was considering this set up for in truck power for tools compressor or even a winch.
Show ! Tive um de 10000w 24v só decepção !🤦
the ultimate test is run a 15000 BTU RV AC unit just after its been tuned off (under load) ive killed modfets a few times doing that
Unless my eyes are deceiving me it looks like the hi current output lines don't have any grommets to protect the wires exiting the case.
No electrical approval? CSA or UL ? Also notice no approval on wiring or lock washers. Cheap screws phillips. They used crimp terminals and soldered them. .
Yep, whatever poor electrical isolation they have in the rubbish will give out, it will end up killing someone
I suggest you replace the high current cables in the inverter, they are not very long and won't cost you much. Just change them!!!
short dont matter..further you go,bigger you need to carry valts.look at a power station,,puts out 80,0000,to get to your 110..
I don't like inverters that use multiple small ferrite transformers. At best they deliver their claimed output (or less, if Chinese !) but little more than that, even as a starting load. By comparison, it is fairly straightforward to design an inverter using a low frequency toroidal or other iron-cored transformer than can deliver anything up to 6x its continuous load as a peak and 2x for a few mins.
4:40, what the hell!?!?!? no grommet for those power cables, simply just pass it through the casing.. bad BAD design!!! panels are glued to the metal casing.. what a dodgy job
🤔
No component trimming. Leads need to be trimmed to prevent shorting.
Change the hot/neutral leads to 8Ga. AWG.
The control modules must also be programmed to give more punch to start induction.
Measuring the DC going into the Inverter you included both Lines. You scewed the test.
Wow you had noticed too LOL
After I saw first two inverters burn I will never buy inverters of this company. Sorry
Yeah, for 1400 bucks that's not a good sign.
one could be silicone wire witch 10 Gage can handle 80-120 amps at 96volts DC so if your only pulling 66 amps ac it would be perfectly fine
Exactly common sense 😂
All that matters is if your devices doesn't exceed 8000 watts at the combined surge limit if it's a high frequency, but if it's a low frequency, you have a nice inverter...You can start 10 to 12000 watts with a 8000 watt low frequency and 8000 watt max surge and run from a high frequency. Buy what you know you'll need to start that air conditioner, water pump and refrigerator.
This one says it has a 16000, but this will last for a second or two where a low frequency will surge for 10 to 30 seconds which is needed.
I agree, Low frequency is better for surges.
Sounds like your happy with the Reliable - do you plan to replace your AIMS or augment it?
I'm thinking of setting up the reliable inverter as part of a diversion load project, but keep the AIMS for my regular house load. I've actually been running on the AIMS pretty consistently.
DavidPoz the AIMS looks like a beefy unit. I watched you unbox it and go “woah this is heavy!” Kinda like my Victron 3kVa 48v unit. Hint: do not drop LF inverters on toes. They hurt. ;-)
Btw love your videos. You seem very enthusiastic about your project power wall. The things with wire around them (tube thingy and donut) are called chokes. They strip high frequency noise off the ac output.
Thank you.
I loved the upgrade as well.
Happy u got it working!
I notice with the air compressor running and the heat gun on, there was a voltage sag.
25amps is above the flow limit of #12 wire you used.
Redo the comparison with #10 wire feeding the outlets and see how it fares.
Maybe feed a small panel with #8 conductor, and have 4 or more receptacles outputting from individual #12 circuits. You should be able to power the vacuum, the mitre saw, the heat gun, and the compressor without voltage drop then.
Next inverter video I plan to hook up several more outlets and try to bring the inverter up to 8000w. What do you think, will it make it?
DavidPoz I am concerned about the uncrimped soldered only leads in the inverter...
Me too (about the soldered ring terminal). I'm going to try and do a test at 8kw. If it gets hot then I'll probably replace the wire and ring terminal.
I would give it about 4kw
It would have been nice if you showed actual performance with a power meter (like a Kill-a-watt) and multimeter. Your tests didn't even begin to show the capacity of an 8kw inverter, the most you ever loaded was around 2kw. When you measured 58amps on the battery leads, that at 54 volts was over 3kw, but doesn't show the efficiency, since the compressor should have been less that 2kw.
My 3000watt 12v inverter it star a 40 gallon 120v compresor about four times in size of the one
Junk. Automotive fuses in parallel? 85% efficient? Wires far too small? No thanks
This will catch fire
It won't catch fire because the continuous rating will be about half the maximum 8000 watts.
You get what you pay for and for the price they are quite good
No volt meter to check the accuracy of the indicated voltage? It would be nice to have meters indicating battery output and inverter output during a test.
Meu amigo esse é bem robusto, muito bom, parabéns pelo inversor
Obrigado
Would you test to the 16000W spike? Yes, that's a nice big chop saw but I don't think you're really stressing it. Plug all your tools in at once and push it to the breaking point. I also question your title - I do not call $1500 "cheap".
You might enjoy Pat 2 of testing this inverter. It never did get all the way to the name plate rating.
good technical information about Solar power inverter # but U did not inform when inverter convert batteries DC volt to AC volt it must convert to AC 220 volt & it must also show how much AC ampear current it converts #
that is so powerful sine wave inverter and very nice electronics parts layouts
14:40 my reaction the same.... really this inverter awesome
David me ha gustado mucho la prueba.
Estoy contigo en que los cables deberían de ser mas grueso para soportar sobre 100A.
En España iría muy bien porque funcionaria a 230v lo que bajarían los amperios la mitad de los que te consume .
Saludos cordiales amigo.
I agree, the wires would be fine at your 230 volts, only 35 amps. Thanks for watching from Spain.
The wires are NOT too small. The references made to gauge requirements are from the wrong chart. If you look for the temperature rise chart for unbundled, in-chassis wiring, you can see their sizing is correct. Also, the insulation temperature rating will need to be considered when checking the chart. I don't know the rating of those, but 105C cost no more than lower temps so everyone is using it. ALL manufacturers use the temperature rise method to determine the wire gauge required inside their equipment.
Wire length has no bearing on the wire gauge required. Sure, wire length will have more resistance, but the current will be identical along the entire length of the wire. If you don't believe me then tell my why fuses are so short. The Ampacity of the conductor is not length dependant. It is the voltage that drops along the length of the conductor. This voltage drop is due to the power lost to heat, yet the current will always remain constant.
High Frequency switch mode power supplies have a giant advantage in reduced transformer size. That was the breakthrough in power conversion that swept the industry in the 80s. So yes, those transformers can carry the rated power.
Great video, thanks. This inverter seems to have very good surge capacity. It would be fun to run it at 100% for a while.
Hi Don Doyle, Thanks for your comment. You are right, I did not know about chassis wiring. I'm glad so many people (such as yourself) are willing to write comments to help me out. I did make another video running this inverter up with more loads: ruclips.net/video/TZbjy9t933E/видео.html
Good video. Thanks for your time and effort. I wish more people wanted to do this stuff and I think your excitement and experience will help them to do so. Keep up the good work.
By my calculations they over rate this inverter by about 800 watts not including energy lost by the inverter itself. 30 amp (10 AWG) =3600 watts minus whatever percentage loss according to this units efficiency. I would say it is a 3500 watt inverter. I wonder what the surge capabilities are? I'm betting that inverter is rated on it's surge or peak capabilities and not it's constant. It can only handle it's peak for a second or less before it self protects. It should be rated 3000 watts. Manufacturers should always rate their product conservatively so guys like myself don't feel ripped off.
Dave, this wasn't even close to your 1st test. You didn't push it to it's max & didn't show if it still had voltage feed to the ground. I was thinking of getting this but I'm skeptical. Do you still have this inverter to do a full load test?
I think this was my first video on this this inverter. My second video I attempted going up to the full load and if memory serves... it stopped at 7kW, not 8. I don't recommend it because of that. Do you need some suggestions?
It's a high-frequency inverter, it won't handle big surges. If you want reliabilty you are far better off with a low-frequency inverter that has a really big and heavy transformer.
I agree. I run my house on a low-frequency inverter: ruclips.net/video/dfHb5tZErTs/видео.html
Best to slap a Amprobe and it will tell u how much ur really using,just bc it says 5 amps or 10 amps does not mean it is drawing that