Darjanator is in warehouse. I'm a driver. I also assist in loading the trucks, and unload them. Trust me, there's a market for no touch loads. Some companies advertise themselves, trying to get drivers, by bragging about how little you will touch what you're hauling. It's definitely a thing. And myself? Unless it's a truly huge hit on my profits, I'm going to pay to have my ship loaded for me while I do other things.
Yeah, like with Amazon, the tractor trailer drivers don't touch packages. They JUST drive. but the DELIVERY drivers DO load their vans. Both experiences are a thing.
@AccidentalFriendlyFire The semi truck drivers never touched a single item at the places where I worked. We did the loading and unloading. The only time a driver would touch a product was when I would do the home deliveries with the 1-ton truck. Lol Their current time per SCU to load is entirely unrealistic and would get people fired IRL.
@LucidStrike I don't think anyone is really questioning that. Only that the auto-load timers are way too long and unrealistic. Especially for everything that is in crates that can hovered around. Lol
And that's what is great about having choice. My org has a whole section with people that LIKE training to load end unload ships quickly and efficiently. Vehicles and Cargo.
@@Roboticus_Prime_RC I wasn't making or responding to any argument at all. Just supplemental insight. Amazon delivery station shifts, which of course facilitate the transfer of packages from semi to delivery van, are around 11 hrs long. But, yeah, in that time we unload a good number of semis, sort 35k-85k packages, and load dozens and dozens of delivery vans. Since the goods are usually gonna already be at the cargo sites, the timer should generally only be simulating literally just loading and unloading, and a semi can be unloaded in like 10-20 minutes depending on the containers being used. However, if the things AREN'T already sorted, that could inflate the time cost, since sortation is the lengthiest part and maybe is presumed to start only when the order comes in. If players have choices about which container sizes to use, I wouldn't think all those containers are already sorted and staged. Hmm. But really, it's probably just s pendulum swing. To find balance, devs often oscillate between extremes in either direction before settling on a tuning that proves to yield the intended results. 🤷🏿♂️
46:46 I think maybe you misunderstood. He was talking about hangars owned by ORGS independent of any particular members of those orgs. Having to go through the party system would be a workaround, a worse option that works but not well. Like, if the Garden needed YOU specifically to log on and create a party anytime a member had a legitimate need to access a Garden hangar, that'd be pretty impractical. Also, you wouldn't be able to separate access to Garden ships from access to your PERSONAL ships. Orgs need to be able to own things independent of the members, for the sake of both the orgs and their members.
@@jeremiahbond2810 I know someone that was outraged that CR lied to them about when the hangar module was arriving. They quit the game. Do you remember when CR demo'd the helmet flip and the hangar door opening to show space? Then he flew out and crashed and said, "That's Bu***Sh*t". People thought it was so funny they made shirts with his face saying that. Most people don't remember that.
Star citizen is a fusion of GTA Online and Farming Simulator. The physicalized cargo and items is what was really needed for the farming simulator aspect. The fun isn't about what you're doing, but how you're doing it. Hell in space battles I get bored to tears just going after the bounty head and then escaping. the real fun is managing the wrecks, exploring and filling the cargo hold. all the little tasks that require a little thought there.
To prevent a major time sink in the game and what makes sense seeing like Darjanator said about realism we have to look at real life examples. Now like in the real world, a truck driver might help or load its own truck. But a Cargo Airplane in the RL will be loaded and unloaded by Cargo specialists helped by a computer simulator and again biggest thing is weight and weight distribution. If we look at a big Cargo Ship like a container ship they are being loaded by Specialists and again aided by a Computer. Not only for where what goes inside and on top of the ship but things like what will be unloaded at the next port of call and also taking into account the weight and weight distribution. To do this the Cargo Ship when it docks will hand over the inventory to the Computer. This way the Computer knows where what is stored and stacked and how the weight distribution is like at the moment. So you need to upload and download your manifest each time before unloading and after loading.
I also don’t mind the new cargo system coming in but think they should definitely do some ship reworks it’s going to take forever to unload a reclaimer give us a ramp at the back is it easier to get In and out of
I am attracted to the homesteading idea of future game play. Farming, hunting, gathering, mining, fishing. Make a business out of it. I have the base builders and the Endeavor Master Set. Keeping your homestead defended will be the biggest concern.
If theyd reintroduce the simulator within the game you could easily play arena commander while waiting. That was an intended design feature. I dont play PvP. Ill fight when needed but i dont like playing with other people. I like playing with other people freely under Xenothreat conditions, even working on others ships, but i do not have a flavor for being a douchebag. Zero ego. Im just here to enjoy the experience. FYI, i was in the military and we played PvP, even before that, damn near daily. For years. I just dont care for playing against egos. I dont have one. I just am. And i dont care to stroke some fools. Engineering is going to be awesome. But i fix aircraft for a living. I enjoy the complexity of maintaining aircraft. I hope components last a good while, far more than hunger, or its going to be a pain in the ass. The important aspect of it is not to be myopic.
1:08:23 Oh, great, time to do weight and balance checks. And don't store liquids next to dangerous when wet, need at least one box buffer on all sides.
Question: I know you can load up 1 ship to come up in your hanger. If I have a ship to load 2000 SCU or more and let say it takes 30mins or more to load the ship. Now if you happy to load it yourself then that's that, but lets say that I don't want to load it myself and happy to pay for it. As a way to avoid me having to get out of the game for example until it is loaded, I think it would be better to have another ship elevator. this way I could bring up another ship and go do another run or maybe meetup with friends to do say a bunker mission, then I come back to take the ship to complete the cargo mission. What do you guys think. Another thing is that the npc will load it based on the order that you select, by selecting what items to load in what order, based on what order I want to do the muplti drop of the cargo.
why are you assuming the ship has to be spawned and on the elevator to laod/unload it? infact currently in the evocati build you cant pull out a ship at all that's being loaded. you have to weait for ti to be done first. i imagine it will be similar youll have to send the loaded ship down for "the workers" to unload it for you.
@@FreebirthBoccara True but for realism, I could see you calling your ship, then the cargo elevator comes up with the goods, and there is a door in the cargo area that lets in a number npcs that load the cargo. Its one way to do it. Then if you could, I would have another ship elevator call a ship for me to do something else. Who knows what they will do, in the short term I could see as you said where they will load the cargo while it is in the ground. But I think long term I could see them doing this at it will also help to make game more alive with NPCs loading cargo as you watch or go do your own thing.
As someone who isn't very interested in cargo hauling as a vocation, I'm fine with freight elevators, but despise the new personal inventory system as it is currently.
There is a lot of truck drivers in real life that will never touch any of the cargo they are hauling so the being able to auto load should still be a thing but they should be able to load there own cargo unless it takes hours to load or cost a large amount of money I am going to auto load if I do any cargo runs
Neither the kiosk nor the mG should be involved in equipping your character, because they're both meant as in-universe devices. Equipping your character through ANY menu is an unimmersive compromise we have to deal with for practicality - just like the looting UI - and I'd prefer UI for activities like that stay seperate from UI that actually HELPS immersion.
That's the goal. You already can do that too. I buy items straight to my ship inventory, keep a few sets of gear on there for various use so I can just pull it and go.
Handling physical cargo should be a bonus. Not doing it should not be a punishment. How often does the driver of the truck have to load his own vehicle? It should not take an hour to load a MAX. Oh man. Saying "they just dont like change" is gaslighting and dismissive of people's issues.
*raises hand* I have to load my own truck. I also have to do it for the other drivers. Yay me, I'm lucky. I'm not sure how the actual cargo capacity is a MAX compares to these trucks, but it's taken over three hours to load one of our trucks before, and I've had times with six guys assisting us taken over an hour to unload, and that with guys waiting for me and the other one in the truck to bring them stuff the entire time. There are a lot of factors, but yes, it can take hours to load IRL trucks. That said, though, because if the supposed time dilation we're going to get it shouldn't take as long as it sounds like it does.
@AccidentalFriendlyFire I used to load, unload trucks. It never took more than 15-20 minutes with a forklift. Even faster if it was a flatbed. The longest were the trucks of small plants. Those would take about 30 minutes if they were all 1 gallon. We had a stack of double wide pallets that made it much faster than it would otherwise be. None of the stuff in SC is the small items. It's all in 1SCU crates or higher. I've done many hundreds of trucks over the years, and I can only think of a handful of times the driver helped.
What about paying more to hire more AI dudes to load my ship faster? I don’t have the kind of time to come home after work, spent hours loading big Bertha, and then getting pirated at midnight when I have work the next day.
The proposed death mechanics they want to add will kill the game NOT because the game is glitchy and you might die but it will kill the game even if the bugs are ironed out. Why? *WELL WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD TAKE 3/4THS OF THE MISSIONS IN THE GAME WHERE YOU MIGHT DIE THEN!?* It's seriously stupid. You punish taking risks people stop taking risks, simple as. If all your gameplay is taking risks (like almost every mmo actually, all video games even) then people will stop playing because you are punishing them for playing. It's stupid. They are freaking idiots with wanting to just screw over players for trying a mission.
They're really minimizing the flight and space travel aspects... of the space game. Cargo haulers should be thankful they have to manually load. In the space game. If you don't wanna do that then you're not a REAL hauler. "Suck it up." It's not for you. Oof. Tomato usually has good takes but this is ugly. This is all telling people to deal with it, and not addressing any of the actual concerns.
Cargo haulers don't have to manually load cargo. I don't know how that keeps getting missed, you can pay to have the cargo loaded and play the game just like you do now with the Hull C. Dunno how else we should approach these game loops other than "if you don't like it find an alternative." If you don't want to deal with hauling the rocks you mine, you either gotta deal with it or find a hauler. If you don't like loading your own cargo, you'll have to deal with it or pay to have it loaded for you. I'm not gatekeeping who a "real hauler" is. So my apologies if I said those words verbatim, but this change is about the CHOICES it presents. What are the actual concerns you're referring to?
Wow, this guest was terrible and clueless right off the bat. The way he (didn't) answer the first question was horrible. The reason it's necessary to phyiscalize everything is that it's a systemic change to make all systems work as intended. An explorer can now find wrecks with items left behind in a ship or a pirate will find more actual items inside ships they capture/interdict. What you see is what you get.
Why do people want to move cargo? Seriously, do people see spending time calling for cargo and then moving it off an elevator and placing it on a ship fun? Isn't this going to get tedious quickly?
I'm fine if they wanna do that, but don't force it on everyone. Only exception is forcing pirates to load cargo to work off their sentence. That would be acceptable. The punishment should fit the crime.
Yes, people see this as fun. It's part of what the original idea if the cargo Hauler was, with the option to skip it. There is always an option to skip it if you don't find it fun.
Darjanator is in warehouse. I'm a driver. I also assist in loading the trucks, and unload them.
Trust me, there's a market for no touch loads. Some companies advertise themselves, trying to get drivers, by bragging about how little you will touch what you're hauling. It's definitely a thing. And myself? Unless it's a truly huge hit on my profits, I'm going to pay to have my ship loaded for me while I do other things.
Yeah, like with Amazon, the tractor trailer drivers don't touch packages. They JUST drive. but the DELIVERY drivers DO load their vans. Both experiences are a thing.
@AccidentalFriendlyFire The semi truck drivers never touched a single item at the places where I worked. We did the loading and unloading.
The only time a driver would touch a product was when I would do the home deliveries with the 1-ton truck. Lol
Their current time per SCU to load is entirely unrealistic and would get people fired IRL.
@LucidStrike I don't think anyone is really questioning that. Only that the auto-load timers are way too long and unrealistic. Especially for everything that is in crates that can hovered around. Lol
And that's what is great about having choice. My org has a whole section with people that LIKE training to load end unload ships quickly and efficiently. Vehicles and Cargo.
@@Roboticus_Prime_RC I wasn't making or responding to any argument at all. Just supplemental insight.
Amazon delivery station shifts, which of course facilitate the transfer of packages from semi to delivery van, are around 11 hrs long. But, yeah, in that time we unload a good number of semis, sort 35k-85k packages, and load dozens and dozens of delivery vans.
Since the goods are usually gonna already be at the cargo sites, the timer should generally only be simulating literally just loading and unloading, and a semi can be unloaded in like 10-20 minutes depending on the containers being used.
However, if the things AREN'T already sorted, that could inflate the time cost, since sortation is the lengthiest part and maybe is presumed to start only when the order comes in. If players have choices about which container sizes to use, I wouldn't think all those containers are already sorted and staged.
Hmm. But really, it's probably just s pendulum swing. To find balance, devs often oscillate between extremes in either direction before settling on a tuning that proves to yield the intended results. 🤷🏿♂️
46:46 I think maybe you misunderstood. He was talking about hangars owned by ORGS independent of any particular members of those orgs. Having to go through the party system would be a workaround, a worse option that works but not well.
Like, if the Garden needed YOU specifically to log on and create a party anytime a member had a legitimate need to access a Garden hangar, that'd be pretty impractical. Also, you wouldn't be able to separate access to Garden ships from access to your PERSONAL ships.
Orgs need to be able to own things independent of the members, for the sake of both the orgs and their members.
Even wow has a guild bank. It's that system. We just first need to implement a clan system. A permanent group system.
Agreed. There does need to be a persistent resource for the group as a whole.
Funny thing is, we were all excited to walk around in our hangar. When it didn't come out on time people lost their minds.
Personal hangars existed before you could fly. And they were awesome. Thats a long long time since weve had a glimpse of a new system.
@@jeremiahbond2810 I know someone that was outraged that CR lied to them about when the hangar module was arriving. They quit the game.
Do you remember when CR demo'd the helmet flip and the hangar door opening to show space? Then he flew out and crashed and said, "That's Bu***Sh*t". People thought it was so funny they made shirts with his face saying that. Most people don't remember that.
@@BalokLives Lol, yeah, im pretty sure i remember that. Ill have to look it up again. Did you play the Gladius launch to space demo?
@@BalokLives haha, yeah i remember that. Tell you man Ive been a supporter since the first day. Been a long ride. Hope we get to the finish line.
I remember when they added the ladders and walkways to the hangar module, people were so excited. It feels almost silly now 😂
37:00
I have always thought a people transport Caterpillar would be excellent.
Thanks to Darj and Tomato for the content.
Star citizen is a fusion of GTA Online and Farming Simulator. The physicalized cargo and items is what was really needed for the farming simulator aspect. The fun isn't about what you're doing, but how you're doing it. Hell in space battles I get bored to tears just going after the bounty head and then escaping. the real fun is managing the wrecks, exploring and filling the cargo hold. all the little tasks that require a little thought there.
Darjj!!! Heck yeah IWar 2 my man to me it was what privateer 2 should of been instead of what we got.
To prevent a major time sink in the game and what makes sense seeing like Darjanator said about realism we have to look at real life examples.
Now like in the real world, a truck driver might help or load its own truck.
But a Cargo Airplane in the RL will be loaded and unloaded by Cargo specialists helped by a computer simulator and again biggest thing is weight and weight distribution.
If we look at a big Cargo Ship like a container ship they are being loaded by Specialists and again aided by a Computer.
Not only for where what goes inside and on top of the ship but things like what will be unloaded at the next port of call and also taking into account the weight and weight distribution.
To do this the Cargo Ship when it docks will hand over the inventory to the Computer.
This way the Computer knows where what is stored and stacked and how the weight distribution is like at the moment.
So you need to upload and download your manifest each time before unloading and after loading.
Ship inventory loadouts are going to be crucial especially for drop ships and multi-crew ships
I also don’t mind the new cargo system coming in but think they should definitely do some ship reworks it’s going to take forever to unload a reclaimer give us a ramp at the back is it easier to get In and out of
I am attracted to the homesteading idea of future game play. Farming, hunting, gathering, mining, fishing. Make a business out of it. I have the base builders and the Endeavor Master Set. Keeping your homestead defended will be the biggest concern.
If theyd reintroduce the simulator within the game you could easily play arena commander while waiting. That was an intended design feature.
I dont play PvP. Ill fight when needed but i dont like playing with other people. I like playing with other people freely under Xenothreat conditions, even working on others ships, but i do not have a flavor for being a douchebag. Zero ego. Im just here to enjoy the experience.
FYI, i was in the military and we played PvP, even before that, damn near daily. For years. I just dont care for playing against egos. I dont have one. I just am. And i dont care to stroke some fools.
Engineering is going to be awesome. But i fix aircraft for a living. I enjoy the complexity of maintaining aircraft. I hope components last a good while, far more than hunger, or its going to be a pain in the ass.
The important aspect of it is not to be myopic.
Finding my own corner of space is everything to me! BB on a asteroid would be ideal!
PVP isn’t just dogfighting Darj. Player vs player doesn’t just mean combat.
1:08:23 Oh, great, time to do weight and balance checks. And don't store liquids next to dangerous when wet, need at least one box buffer on all sides.
Question: I know you can load up 1 ship to come up in your hanger. If I have a ship to load 2000 SCU or more and let say it takes 30mins or more to load the ship. Now if you happy to load it yourself then that's that, but lets say that I don't want to load it myself and happy to pay for it. As a way to avoid me having to get out of the game for example until it is loaded, I think it would be better to have another ship elevator. this way I could bring up another ship and go do another run or maybe meetup with friends to do say a bunker mission, then I come back to take the ship to complete the cargo mission. What do you guys think. Another thing is that the npc will load it based on the order that you select, by selecting what items to load in what order, based on what order I want to do the muplti drop of the cargo.
why are you assuming the ship has to be spawned and on the elevator to laod/unload it? infact currently in the evocati build you cant pull out a ship at all that's being loaded. you have to weait for ti to be done first. i imagine it will be similar youll have to send the loaded ship down for "the workers" to unload it for you.
@@FreebirthBoccara True but for realism, I could see you calling your ship, then the cargo elevator comes up with the goods, and there is a door in the cargo area that lets in a number npcs that load the cargo.
Its one way to do it. Then if you could, I would have another ship elevator call a ship for me to do something else.
Who knows what they will do, in the short term I could see as you said where they will load the cargo while it is in the ground. But I think long term I could see them doing this at it will also help to make game more alive with NPCs loading cargo as you watch or go do your own thing.
As someone who isn't very interested in cargo hauling as a vocation, I'm fine with freight elevators, but despise the new personal inventory system as it is currently.
There is a lot of truck drivers in real life that will never touch any of the cargo they are hauling so the being able to auto load should still be a thing but they should be able to load there own cargo unless it takes hours to load or cost a large amount of money I am going to auto load if I do any cargo runs
and thats an option...
One day the Connie will get its gold pass, and I hope the day after JRDF makes a new good sized model of it.
My hot take CItizen Con is going to be incredibly race heavy with AC and New Ships.
55:25 Rogue System?
Neither the kiosk nor the mG should be involved in equipping your character, because they're both meant as in-universe devices.
Equipping your character through ANY menu is an unimmersive compromise we have to deal with for practicality - just like the looting UI - and I'd prefer UI for activities like that stay seperate from UI that actually HELPS immersion.
The only thing im not looking forward to about the cargo hauling is the possibility that the payouts wont be very good at first.
I've given up on the dream on how great the carrack COULD be...and upgraded to an A2.
Will the hangars be what we own in our RSI page, in our ship packages.
Yes goes off size of your biggest ship
Feel like we should be able to stock our ships. Then when we load up for a mission we hit the lockers to suit up.
That's the goal. You already can do that too. I buy items straight to my ship inventory, keep a few sets of gear on there for various use so I can just pull it and go.
The ladder of the Freelancer has killed more players than anything else in the game, with exception of the elevators. Both are serial killers.
Ladders and elevators. Things to avoid.
My Freelancer ladder never killed me.
The Aurora doors, however... PTSD enducing.
I learned if a black hole opens in the elevator door, don't step in.
I want to know if they are going to slow down the server universe time to 1:1.
Personally, I can't wait for them to add the pooping simulator.
Hangars 2.0 :D
Handling physical cargo should be a bonus.
Not doing it should not be a punishment.
How often does the driver of the truck have to load his own vehicle? It should not take an hour to load a MAX.
Oh man. Saying "they just dont like change" is gaslighting and dismissive of people's issues.
*raises hand* I have to load my own truck. I also have to do it for the other drivers. Yay me, I'm lucky. I'm not sure how the actual cargo capacity is a MAX compares to these trucks, but it's taken over three hours to load one of our trucks before, and I've had times with six guys assisting us taken over an hour to unload, and that with guys waiting for me and the other one in the truck to bring them stuff the entire time. There are a lot of factors, but yes, it can take hours to load IRL trucks.
That said, though, because if the supposed time dilation we're going to get it shouldn't take as long as it sounds like it does.
@AccidentalFriendlyFire I used to load, unload trucks. It never took more than 15-20 minutes with a forklift. Even faster if it was a flatbed. The longest were the trucks of small plants. Those would take about 30 minutes if they were all 1 gallon. We had a stack of double wide pallets that made it much faster than it would otherwise be.
None of the stuff in SC is the small items. It's all in 1SCU crates or higher.
I've done many hundreds of trucks over the years, and I can only think of a handful of times the driver helped.
@@Roboticus_Prime_RC I lumped for many years and at a DC we rarely had palletized cargo most of it was a hand load.
@rooster1012 That sounds terribly inefficient. Lol
What about paying more to hire more AI dudes to load my ship faster? I don’t have the kind of time to come home after work, spent hours loading big Bertha, and then getting pirated at midnight when I have work the next day.
I don't believe there's any Awards for First comment dude 😅😅😅
The proposed death mechanics they want to add will kill the game NOT because the game is glitchy and you might die but it will kill the game even if the bugs are ironed out. Why? *WELL WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD TAKE 3/4THS OF THE MISSIONS IN THE GAME WHERE YOU MIGHT DIE THEN!?* It's seriously stupid. You punish taking risks people stop taking risks, simple as. If all your gameplay is taking risks (like almost every mmo actually, all video games even) then people will stop playing because you are punishing them for playing. It's stupid. They are freaking idiots with wanting to just screw over players for trying a mission.
Hellion
They're really minimizing the flight and space travel aspects... of the space game. Cargo haulers should be thankful they have to manually load. In the space game. If you don't wanna do that then you're not a REAL hauler. "Suck it up." It's not for you.
Oof. Tomato usually has good takes but this is ugly. This is all telling people to deal with it, and not addressing any of the actual concerns.
Logistics will be important... and this is the game they have been describing since the begining.
Cargo haulers don't have to manually load cargo. I don't know how that keeps getting missed, you can pay to have the cargo loaded and play the game just like you do now with the Hull C.
Dunno how else we should approach these game loops other than "if you don't like it find an alternative."
If you don't want to deal with hauling the rocks you mine, you either gotta deal with it or find a hauler. If you don't like loading your own cargo, you'll have to deal with it or pay to have it loaded for you. I'm not gatekeeping who a "real hauler" is. So my apologies if I said those words verbatim, but this change is about the CHOICES it presents.
What are the actual concerns you're referring to?
dude needs to upgrade his processor the loading time on his thoughts was painful
Wait, what?
Wow, this guest was terrible and clueless right off the bat.
The way he (didn't) answer the first question was horrible.
The reason it's necessary to phyiscalize everything is that it's a systemic change to make all systems work as intended.
An explorer can now find wrecks with items left behind in a ship or a pirate will find more actual items inside ships they capture/interdict.
What you see is what you get.
Why do people want to move cargo? Seriously, do people see spending time calling for cargo and then moving it off an elevator and placing it on a ship fun? Isn't this going to get tedious quickly?
I have played eve for 12 years. The answer to your question is yes.
I'm fine if they wanna do that, but don't force it on everyone.
Only exception is forcing pirates to load cargo to work off their sentence. That would be acceptable. The punishment should fit the crime.
@@joeggrant406 if your not going to be hauling cargo the amount your ever going to move is negligible. It’s almost not worth thinking about
Yes. Its the game we paid for. Its exactly what they had been describing for a decade
Yes, people see this as fun.
It's part of what the original idea if the cargo Hauler was, with the option to skip it. There is always an option to skip it if you don't find it fun.
First comment.. Whoooooooo!!