They say that here in North America as well. For my ENTIRE lifetime, the UAW workers have gotten a much, much, MUCH better deal than the rest of us average people. Best hourly wages PLUS lots of overtime - with overtime most made as much as salaried middle management in a medium-sized company (and didn't actually work more hours, the 40-hour work week in North America is mythical). So we should SUBSIDIZE the outrageous greed (share buybacks, record profits) of GM to save the jobs of the "favored few" who work in the auto industry. Defined-benefit pensions, the absolute cream of the hourly wages, better benefits than ANYBODY not in mid-senior management. (And better than a LOT of them, too). Plus the absolute theft that happens at a "stealership" (apparently not the same in the UK where the consumer protection laws MAY actually do something?) Nope, the auto industry deserves what their going to get. Good and HARD.
Don’t forget that car dealerships and their manufacturers have been reluctant to sell BEVs for a few years now. Reason, aside from remaining capital investment and supply chain dependency of ICE manufacturing plant, there is significantly less revenue to be gained from BEVs than ICE cars on service contracts 😱
Its better for used car sales though as they don't really want to get involved in repairing cars they just want to sell and make a swift profit without lots of warranty claims
Hyundai and Kia, and I think MG expect you to take your EV for a regular service in order to maintain the warranty and in the case of Hyundai to get your next year of AA cover so the legacy manufacturers have the potential to make more money from EV servicing as they will still charge but not have to do anywhere near as much work.
I believe MG have got the financial model right... London design centre - manufactured in China. My MG4 looks and feels British at 60% of Tesla price. I got rid of my Model X 12 months ago - it was too big for Scottish roads - the MG is perfect with a good 230+ mile range when charged in my garage.
Come on Dave. Brexit is costing the UK £100b a year and if you want to compare growth rates in Germany and the UK you first have to look at the respective GDP per capita. Germany $53 000, UK $48 000. As far as EVs go, would you prefer to buy in France with a €6 000 grant and a tax break that means that an home charger costs €500 or in the UK with nowt!
Or indeed Malta, another island nation, who's offering €12,000 incentive as part of an ICE car scrappage scheme. To improve the quality of life and health outcomes to their residents.
Whats not to like about an ev, quieter, cheaper to run, no trips to smelly petrol stations just plug in at night get up next day job done, lower maintenance cost, better performance like for like, don't put toxic emissions 2 meters from your kids lungs, 20 times LESS likely to catch fire, oh and may help the environment and contribute to the slow down of global warming.
Cheaper to run - for the time being at least this is almost certainly only the case if you can charge at home. This is fine for the 60%ish of people who can charge at home but cost is still offputting for those who can't.
We need to adopt not just EV's but also solar, wind or water power with battery storage on every house or business that can take it, lets release ourselves from a centralised power grid and get independent from foreign providers. By the way wasn't China with the allies during WWII, unlike Japan and Germany !
It is fantastically cheaper to generate electricity in large scale staffed electric generating plants than in small scale installations especially electrical storage maintained by wind or solar generated electricity. It even pays for the high line loss to the local resident power meter that on average in the US only receives 38% of the generated electricity. For instant backup at the local point of use battery storage of about four days is recommended. It can be maintained by various sources of wild AC if desired. In the US with forest fire ash blocking out the sun and power grids shutdown to prevent sparking more fires people ran out of battery storage after four days requiring backup generators.
@@douglasengle2704 Centralised production with someone else dictating the cost which varies with the cost of the oil used to produce electricity. I would rather make my own power for free thanks. Yes disasters may need alternative production of power such as from your car or home battery or wind generation. Forest fires also melt power lines fracturing the grid locally. Maybe we need to be greener so we have less forest fires Douglas
@@douglasengle2704 "Large scale staffed electric generating plants". Do you know how much staff you need to run a grid-scale P/V array? No? It is a very small number. (it is not zero, but a grid scale array in Ontario costs less to operate on an annualized basis than the maintenance salaries of our last coal-fired plant did. And that is before the cost of, ya know ...COAL).
France here, honestly I could go through EV figures and the economy here in France but there’s just no point. Dave just keeps on whining on spouting this utter BS. I love his videos on EV’s and electrification but I wish he would educate himself a little bit about government figures and politics. Honestly, benefits of brexit. Seriously. What a complete joke 😂
This Government has not given discounts for EV's but has rather increased costs for ICE. I feel that as this will not cost anything and potentially gain, it is a way they would continue. The carrott has been removed and they are now usinf the stick!
Yes Jay, they should penalise ICE, not discount EVs, I don't think they ever did. But the tax laws and benefit in kind regulations and salary sacrifice rules are such that it makes EVs dramatically more affordable and attractive and that cost is borne by tax payers.
I see little benefit in the Brexit deal negotiated by the most circus like goverment I have ever seen it could and should be a better deal not having to send money to pay for European policies. Thus farvwe tag along with Europe on 90% of things and the fliw of migration is same as. Price parity and cheap Chinese EVs are still slow to arrive musk has decided not to play and keep only his expensive models available. We bought a new car in September Dave and sold our quite new petrol car for decent money to a dealer and spent £20k on a small hatchback petrol i m afraid nothing new EV wise equivalent maybe one day. Still waiting for the government to adjust how incentives are dustributed to purchase lease or salary sacrifice as it seems socially divisive currently as you need a house with private parking , be lucky enough to have a company car or lucky enough to work for a company that offers salary sacrifice. We all know public charging is way too expensive i dont see a VAT cut fixing it the operstors will change what the market will stand for. Keep going Dave always interested in your pointnof view its just different to a lot of peoples reality.
@@TerryHickey-xt4mf Maybe for YOU in Britain, if I could emigrate (and technically I think I can but it would be a challenge) I definitely would. North America is headed for a major recession OR a full-scale depression along with a lot of right-wing violence and oppression.
In reality, brexit was the bread and circus distraction whilst your politicians ransacked the public purse for themselves and their billionaire friends, and then covid came along just in time to give them an extra 3 years. And then you elected into office a change for a red tie and suit who make laws and incentives for the same billionaire friends.
Brexit has been an economic and social disaster for Britain as we knew it would be, it's obvious for all the world to see, but Dave doesn't need to go over that in every video. The thrust of Dave's argument here is that, should the foreign investors that own the majority of Britain's remaining industry and infrastructure wish it, they could allow the UK Government to arrange trade agreements with China regarding the import of Chinese BEVs, outside of any EU and USA trade agreements. It's a sequin in a field of cowpats, but it is a nonetheless a sequin.
@ that’s true. It’s the unspeakable truth that the British media don’t want to discuss. If you want the truth about Brexit, you have to watch foreign tv programmes for a true assessment.
I can see major issues if the UK changes VAT how would that apply to NI in the EU Single Market that would have to be negotiated. But that is nothing compared to Tariffs if the EU imposes Tariffs on Chinese EVs NI would have to apply the same Tariff. If GB doesn't it will be the NOT FOR EU on steroids There isn't a second hand market for used cheese but a GB car if that hadn't payed Tariffs sold (exported) second hand from GB into NI would be required to pay a tariff at least based on its second hand value. I can only see the next few years being an absolute Cluster#uck.
In Australia, the worst is seeing people sitting in there large utes, like the Ford Ranger, Toyota Landcruiser and HiLux with the engine running to keep the air conditioner running. All those fumes hopefully get recirculate.
Im not sure where we are getting money for 50% vat discount on EVs, scrapping £40k+ luxury car tax for evs, continuing the BIK tax breaks at the current rate or reducing VAT on public chargers to 5%. The UK has some clever rules on EV adoption. The mandated zero emissions targets for this year are 22% for new cars and 10% for new vans. Rising to 80% of cars and 70% vans in 2030 and 100% zero emissions vehicles in 2035. Sure the percentages could increase quicker and the loopholes fixed quicker... But the £15000 per car and £9000 per van fines for each vehicle a couple misses the target by are real. This means ICE manufacturers can actually cross subsidise EV sales to the tune of £15000 per car to achieve desired sales. The vehicle manufacturers are committed to doing this, and if they fail we will raise an absolute monster amount of £ in fines that will be very useful extra tax. So the industry does not need any more unaffordable tax breaks. It needs some sensible regulation. Such as all car parks have x% of working ev chargers in them. All AC chargers mist be able to read the car number plate and bill directly to the cars or the car owners home energy plan. Failure to do this should result in chargers being on free vend. Failure to do this should result in the car park being shut. DC chargers should also bill direct to an owners home or car electricity tariff. With any speeds upto 75kw charged at tariff plus 10%. Speeds 75kw -175kw charged at tarrif +x% etc. sure there is room for some dynamic pricing... But this should be on your home tarrif or your car tariff depending on which a driver decides to use. Either way this fixes the charging problem whereby people with a drive can charge up at 7p kwh and people without can charge up at 55p kwh. Reducing vat to 5% wont help much. Possibly the luxury car tax for EVs could be increased to £50k, instead of £40k... But there have already been some positive developments with a host of car makers reducing list price of evs to keep them below £40k. The plans for BIK were very clear in the October budget, whilst they are not as great as they were once, they are actually still very generous. As a country we need more people to take the bus, walk or cycle just to improve congestion, let alone to cut emissions and to make the buses a little bit more viable. Im all for subsiding public transport people use, im not particularly happy with subsiding dirty diesel buses that drive around empty or have less than 6 passengers for more than half of the day.
Far too complicated reading number plates and billing people's electricity supply accounts. Just use the method that is now the de facto standard for all smallish purchases, contactless. That is all that is needed.
If the ICE ban goes ahead as planned any tax cuts would be short lived as there is no reason to offer incentives to move to EV when it is the only option for new cars. At the moment take up is still good so the other incentives may not be needed. It would have been interesting to see what happened to EV take-up had the BIK incentives been cut from the budget. There is already a suggestion that many PHEVs never get charged because people only had them because of the BIK incentive, with the BIK incentive these wouldn't have been sold at all and I'm guessing that a lot of EV sales are the same.
@@rogerphelps9939 no that is not true. The standard charging protocol actually has billing built into it. Just no one uses it except Tesla. Billing is important to make sure that people without drives can charge up at the same rate as people without drives. I have a drive and charge up every night at 7p/kWh. Why should my neighbours have to pay 55p? Sure I invested £250 in a charging point from eBay and a further £150 in an electrician. But 3 or 4 years later cost has well and truly been covered.
@@onlineo2263 - The CSS based *_Plug and Charge_* protocol is available on none Tesla networks and cars. In the UK you can use it on Ionity via Octopus's Electroverse with certain car models for example. Fastned also do similar with their Autocharge service, but this is felt to be a little less secure when authenticating the car and the charger (payment interception/spoofing) than the CCS method (which uses digital certificates and public key based authentication).
Things are looking good? Tell me about depreciation. Tell me about the 2 year old EVs coming to the market with 100 miles on the clock. That'll do for now.
Are funded or sponsored by the Chinese? You seem to go on about it nearly every vid. If you buy a Chinese EV at a lower price than a European one, who really gains? What happens when the European EV sector simply can't compete because the Chinese EV manufacturers are propped up by their government, similar to Chinese steel a few years back when USA and Europe had to step in with tariffs as they were being under cut with China dumping cheap steel on the market? Think carefully, Who owns the software on a Chinese EV? Where does the data collected go? Who uses the data and for what? And. finally who has the ultimate power to switch off your EV or render it useless if so desired? In China, there are some areas where Tesla cars cannot go or park as the government fear the Tesla is spying and collecting data, these areas are clearly defined and marked. I lived and worked in China and Hong Kong for over 20 years - prior to and after the hand over and seen what they are capable of, That very cheap Chinese EV you always go one about is in reality, an expensive one!
Blah blah blah...if subsidy is the advantage then why don't you anglo compete. Aren't the west particularly the anglo more rich and wealthier than the Chinese?
@ That’s the only Brexit Benefit for the UK. I feel so sorry for the workers losing their jobs, but they must look to the arrogance of companies like VW who had the opportunity to change but decided to reject the future, to not invest. They just wanted to carry on as always and use their muscle to force authorities to kick the emissions standards down the road. They tried to sell overpriced EV,s, they promoted the lie there was no demand. They thought that spreading the lie that it was impossible to make a sell affordable EV,s was a good idea, all the time whilst Tesla and major Chinese brands were doing that very thing, changing the automotive landscape forever. There is no going back and VW are sadly paying the price…
Brexit has nothing to do with EVs, the UK had an opt out and could have impacted the tariffs being voted in whilst within the EU regardless. Also, the form of brexit imposed on us does more to harm than help. Take Norway for example they're have the highest adoption rate of EVs per capita, are not subject to tariffs and yet are closer to the EU tradewise being in EFTA (a body the UK helped create). Instead the UK politicians in charge decided they would prefer to attempt to get closer to the USA, a country where there is 100% tariffs on foreign EV imports.
@@davetakesiton - Dave, my comment wasn't political either rather it was reflecting on this particular video's title, which to be honest strikes me more as _soft clickbait_ rather than political in nature. With or without Brexit (of any ilk - hard, soft or torpid) the UK would likely be outside of tariffs in this case. It doesn't fit with the UK's industrial approach, the UK is more interested in having facilities operating within the UK rather than who, or which state, owns those facilities. Further, seeking to be closer to the USA wouldn't assist the UK automaker industry; Brexit was more about the financial industries rather than manufacturing ones. Plus Tesla already dropped plans to open up facilities in the UK a while back, GM retrenched back to the home market, and Ford already operates but focusses on engines, parts and LCVs production lines in the UK.
The macro economic picture shows that brexit was, is and will continue to be bad for the UK. The auto industry has been ripe for a shake up for some time. The transition from ICE vehicles to electric is no more positively or negatively affected by brexit than moving from hiring DVDs at blockbuster to streaming movies. I think Dave is seeking confirmation bias here for an earlier decision that affects his credibility. He needs to accept we all get stuff wrong and perhaps to learn from it.
When the Romans left the UK the English just got on with it, and eventually they became the major Global power for a while. it could happen (sort of) again with the right attitude. I now live in NZ so could not be further away from the action if I tried, Brexit was a con, but what financial benefits could the British capitalize on going forward, now they are out of it?
Wow, have you misread me totally. We have a choice today: we can continuously bang on year after year about how bad Brexit was, wishing we had voted differently, wishing others had had the sense to have voted differently, forcing them to accept that those that voted for it were wrong, hoping desperately that maybe even now we can reverse it all because otherwise we are all doomed. Or we can get our act together and make the future better than ever. I moved on many, many years ago, literally the day after the vote. I think I already know what most people have decided.
@@davetakesiton Sorry Dave but poll after poll shows the majority of people think Brexit was a mistake. Yes we do have to look forward, but especially given Trump's isolationist stance, it is becoming more and more urgent to look at moving closer to the EU. That doesn't necessarily mean full rejoin, but in a world of increasing tensions and more hostile sharks it isn't a good idea to be a lone fish. So yes let's look forward, and not discount the idea that forward might mean towards the EU.
@@davetakesiton My apologies if I have got my reading wrong. I would point you to the speech by the Governor of the Bank of England this evening who more adeptly made some of the points I was trying to make.
Dave I have a question for you, as I'm struggling to find the answer. With you driving a Model S and VED starting on EVs from April 1st 2025. Do you know if you'll pay £190 or will you have to pay the "luxury tax" . The Gov website is confusing. Thanx in advance...
The luxury car tax isn't applied retrospectively, it will only apply to EVs sold after 1st April 2024 and is for 5 years. The £190 doesn't apply to cars registered before 2017, their VED is on the old scale.
@@paulweston1106 - However, the government stated the luxury car tax for EVs will be reviewed before the start of the next tax year (most likely in the spring mini-budget) - speculated as most likely meaning they may tinker with the £40k threshold.
I would not buy an EV just yet but have got a lease car through work, saved a fortune in tax, got a new Audi etron Quattro cheaper than I could personally, fully maintained and insured all included, no depreciation for me and didn't even have to pay a deposit, its really a win win. I get to try out a high end EV, don't have to worry about residual values, even get discounted charging at work, also a free charge card with over £450 on it if I need to use public charging. Have to say I am liking the Audi, great range, over 300 miles, super smooth and quiet
It is easy to forget that the Chinese have pulled their population from poverty into (comparative) affluence in 40 years and that the brutality applied to a substantial proportion of the UK population over a couple of hundred years by the wealthy over some 200 years was not insignificant. Have just bought a second EV (MG4, one year old, at £20k) - it is sitting in our garage, having charged overnight on Octopus Go for around £5.
Good afternoon, one question: do Tesla car owners get a preferential price for the supercharger compared to the Non Tesla car ? As technically Tesla owners pay for the network to be installed and serviced...
@@paulweston1106 Probably? Depends how you define regularly. Once a month might be ‘regular’ but may not be ‘worth it’. People have different needs, and circumstances change. ‘Possibly’ might have been a better word than ‘probably’.
Brexit is one of the reasons why charging is so expensive in the UK. The wholesale price of electricity is derived from the wholesale price of gas. Our gas prices are high because we aren't part of the European gas storage scheme and the government let Centrica mothball the Rough Gas storage facility in 2017. Rough is being brought back into service but it's not fully operational.
Yes, our gas and electricity prices are high due to the global market prices. However, I don't see how the Euro storage scheme is applicable to the UK, as we have massive gas pipeline connections to Norway, effectively acting as storage, in addition to our own remaining North Sea reserves.
It easy to generate electricity from natural gas, but is also a very expensive fuel over coal. Coal is difficult burn cleanly and new ultra supercritical clean coal plants are expense and take years to build, but in the US such a coal plant burning high BTU bituminous coal is predicted to have a crossover fueling price with natural gas at $0.80 per million BTUs. The UK price for wholesale natural gas in Oct. 2024 was in US equivalences $10.50 per million BTUs. Using UK bituminous coal would be expected to have less than 1/10th the fueling cost of natural gas. Britain didn't automate its coal mining in the 1970s as the US did. By 1980 only 1/4th of the underground coal miners were employed as in 1970 producing more coal. In 2020s underground coal mining is greatly done by remote operation and maintenance technicians. There are a few somewhat traditional coal miners still used. It is scientifically impossible for greenhouse gas behavior to cause global warming. Before Al Gore became US vise president in 1992 earth's water vapor saturated greenhouse effect was taught in US public education. Earth's saturated greenhouse effect absorbs all the greenhouse radiant energy from the earth with greenhouse gases within 20 meters of the radiating surface adding 5.55°C (10°F) to earth's average temperature.
@@douglasengle2704 You do a great job of sounding like you know what you're talking about but reveal yourself as a chronic bullshiter with the last paragraph.
True butt electricitty is about 4 times the price of gas per kwh. Combined cycle gas generating plant is 60% efficient so allowing for operaing profit etc electricity should not be much more than twice he price of gas. Something is off.
Thanks for bucking the trend of spouting outdated rubbish about EVs. Despite widespread objection, smokers were pushed out of restaurants and other public places due to the blatantly obvious risk to health. Now, EVs are breaking through the naysayer arguments on similar grounds. Funny how no one gets angry at polluting ICE car drivers driving past children walking on the pavement. Not yet anyway! Unfortunately I can’t yet afford a suitable EV and I can’t charge at home, but I can see that it is a total no brainier to own an EV. I have a very low polluting car so I’m at least halfway there. I’m sure there are thousands of people just like me in the U.K. who would love own an EV, but they are waiting until they are affordable (new OR used).
Affordable is going to mean something different to everyone. Used EVs are now affordable when compared alongside similarly aged and specced ICE cars and some of the early NIssan Leaf cars are going very cheap (although range is poor). If you can't charge at home the element that may impact on affordability is charging it. Assuming the ICE ban happens as planned I can see a situation where used ICE cars actually start to become more expensive due to demand and used EVs become even cheaper as they become more common.
With Brexit Great Britain should invigorate its domestic high quality bituminous coal industry for electric power. The fueling costs for a new ultra supercritical clean coal plant burning high BTU coal in the US has a crossover fueling cost at a natural gas priced at $0.80 per million BTUs. Cost of wholesale natural gas in the UK in US equivalences in Oct. 2024 was $10.50 per million BTUs. The coal freight would also bring much needed profit to UK railways. It is scientifically impossible for greenhouse gas behavior to cause global warming. Before Al Gore became US vise president in 1992 earth's water vapor saturated greenhouse effect was taught in US public education. Earth's saturated greenhouse effect absorbs all the greenhouse radiant energy from the earth with greenhouse gases within 20 meters of the radiating surface adding 5.55°C (10°F) to earth's average temperature. The strong greenhouse gas water vapor which concentration varies hugely across the earth's surface would hold earth's greenhouse effect in saturation if it were the only greenhouse gas in the atmosphere. At 1% average tropospheric water vapor over 99% of earth’s greenhouse effect is from water vapor. There has been no climate change due to global warming as of 2024. Global warming at 1.5°C was predicted to cause climate change with stronger observable hurricanes in the Gulf-of-Mexico. Global warming was officially reported at 1.1°C in 1991 and 1.06°C in 2022. Global warming mysteriously paused at about 1°C in 1992. The cause of global warming is not known in 2024 despite decades of scientific studies. The Arctic region is warming the rest of the world is not. Arctic warming is proving to be from warm Atlantic Ocean waters migrating more frequently and deeper into the Arctic Ocean warming it and the region. The warmer Arctic Ocean is causing a few less weeks of reflective snow and ice cover creating more solar heat gain to the region.
What a load of nonsense. By defintion a greenhouse gas is one that does cause global warming. And this can be easily demonstarted experimetally with eg CO2. Have a look at Venus if you have any doubt what a runaway greenhouse effect can do to a planet.
I agree with Doug, lets ignore 99.9% of the climate scientists over the globe and listen to Doug who obviously knows what he's talking about and has done lots of research in his home made lab, well done Doug!
As I understand, UK coal fields were shut down as the sulphur content was too high and would not conform to emission regulations. Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken as I'm not a coal industry expert.
Cheap EVs but sacrifice UK automotive industry. False Economy.
They say that here in North America as well.
For my ENTIRE lifetime, the UAW workers have gotten a much, much, MUCH better deal than the rest of us average people. Best hourly wages PLUS lots of overtime - with overtime most made as much as salaried middle management in a medium-sized company (and didn't actually work more hours, the 40-hour work week in North America is mythical).
So we should SUBSIDIZE the outrageous greed (share buybacks, record profits) of GM to save the jobs of the "favored few" who work in the auto industry.
Defined-benefit pensions, the absolute cream of the hourly wages, better benefits than ANYBODY not in mid-senior management. (And better than a LOT of them, too).
Plus the absolute theft that happens at a "stealership" (apparently not the same in the UK where the consumer protection laws MAY actually do something?)
Nope, the auto industry deserves what their going to get. Good and HARD.
What a depressingky parochial view of Brexit
The SMMT October figures are also out showing BEVs the only sector with positive growth.
Don’t forget that car dealerships and their manufacturers have been reluctant to sell BEVs for a few years now. Reason, aside from remaining capital investment and supply chain dependency of ICE manufacturing plant, there is significantly less revenue to be gained from BEVs than ICE cars on service contracts 😱
Regrettably, their heads are in the sand and a state of denial …
I can't see why any legacy company or dealer would be keen to sell EV's, it makes no sense for them given their business model.
@@jasonmugridge because people don’t want stinky old diesels anymore?
Its better for used car sales though as they don't really want to get involved in repairing cars they just want to sell and make a swift profit without lots of warranty claims
Hyundai and Kia, and I think MG expect you to take your EV for a regular service in order to maintain the warranty and in the case of Hyundai to get your next year of AA cover so the legacy manufacturers have the potential to make more money from EV servicing as they will still charge but not have to do anywhere near as much work.
I believe MG have got the financial model right... London design centre - manufactured in China. My MG4 looks and feels British at 60% of Tesla price. I got rid of my Model X 12 months ago - it was too big for Scottish roads - the MG is perfect with a good 230+ mile range when charged in my garage.
Come on Dave. Brexit is costing the UK £100b a year and if you want to compare growth rates in Germany and the UK you first have to look at the respective GDP per capita. Germany $53 000, UK $48 000. As far as EVs go, would you prefer to buy in France with a €6 000 grant and a tax break that means that an home charger costs €500 or in the UK with nowt!
Or indeed Malta, another island nation, who's offering €12,000 incentive as part of an ICE car scrappage scheme. To improve the quality of life and health outcomes to their residents.
@GruffSillyGoat Quite, Billy me old goat. Well said.😀
Whats not to like about an ev, quieter, cheaper to run, no trips to smelly petrol stations just plug in at night get up next day job done, lower maintenance cost, better performance like for like, don't put toxic emissions 2 meters from your kids lungs, 20 times LESS likely to catch fire, oh and may help the environment and contribute to the slow down of global warming.
Cheaper to run - for the time being at least this is almost certainly only the case if you can charge at home. This is fine for the 60%ish of people who can charge at home but cost is still offputting for those who can't.
We need to adopt not just EV's but also solar, wind or water power with battery storage on every house or business that can take it, lets release ourselves from a centralised power grid and get independent from foreign providers. By the way wasn't China with the allies during WWII, unlike Japan and Germany !
It is fantastically cheaper to generate electricity in large scale staffed electric generating plants than in small scale installations especially electrical storage maintained by wind or solar generated electricity. It even pays for the high line loss to the local resident power meter that on average in the US only receives 38% of the generated electricity.
For instant backup at the local point of use battery storage of about four days is recommended. It can be maintained by various sources of wild AC if desired. In the US with forest fire ash blocking out the sun and power grids shutdown to prevent sparking more fires people ran out of battery storage after four days requiring backup generators.
@@douglasengle2704 Centralised production with someone else dictating the cost which varies with the cost of the oil used to produce electricity. I would rather make my own power for free thanks. Yes disasters may need alternative production of power such as from your car or home battery or wind generation. Forest fires also melt power lines fracturing the grid locally. Maybe we need to be greener so we have less forest fires Douglas
@@douglasengle2704 "Large scale staffed electric generating plants".
Do you know how much staff you need to run a grid-scale P/V array? No? It is a very small number. (it is not zero, but a grid scale array in Ontario costs less to operate on an annualized basis than the maintenance salaries of our last coal-fired plant did. And that is before the cost of, ya know ...COAL).
Brexit a slow burner? Slow puncture more like!
Looking better by the day
France here, honestly I could go through EV figures and the economy here in France but there’s just no point. Dave just keeps on whining on spouting this utter BS. I love his videos on EV’s and electrification but I wish he would educate himself a little bit about government figures and politics. Honestly, benefits of brexit. Seriously. What a complete joke 😂
I didn't see your channel...
This Government has not given discounts for EV's but has rather increased costs for ICE. I feel that as this will not cost anything and potentially gain, it is a way they would continue. The carrott has been removed and they are now usinf the stick!
Yes Jay, they should penalise ICE, not discount EVs, I don't think they ever did. But the tax laws and benefit in kind regulations and salary sacrifice rules are such that it makes EVs dramatically more affordable and attractive and that cost is borne by tax payers.
I see little benefit in the Brexit deal negotiated by the most circus like goverment I have ever seen it could and should be a better deal not having to send money to pay for European policies.
Thus farvwe tag along with Europe on 90% of things and the fliw of migration is same as.
Price parity and cheap Chinese EVs are still slow to arrive musk has decided not to play and keep only his expensive models available.
We bought a new car in September Dave and sold our quite new petrol car for decent money to a dealer and spent £20k on a small hatchback petrol i m afraid nothing new EV wise equivalent maybe one day.
Still waiting for the government to adjust how incentives are dustributed to purchase lease or salary sacrifice as it seems socially divisive currently as you need a house with private parking , be lucky enough to have a company car or lucky enough to work for a company that offers salary sacrifice.
We all know public charging is way too expensive i dont see a VAT cut fixing it the operstors will change what the market will stand for.
Keep going Dave always interested in your pointnof view its just different to a lot of peoples reality.
Intresting report however it was written pre Trumps victory, so any talk of political stability over the next few years is rather premature.
I think you will find it will be ok.
@@TerryHickey-xt4mf Maybe for YOU in Britain, if I could emigrate (and technically I think I can but it would be a challenge) I definitely would. North America is headed for a major recession OR a full-scale depression along with a lot of right-wing violence and oppression.
EVs from China that are under 1000kg would be more than welcome...
Brexit has cost the uk about £140 billion. Just saying.
In reality, brexit was the bread and circus distraction whilst your politicians ransacked the public purse for themselves and their billionaire friends, and then covid came along just in time to give them an extra 3 years. And then you elected into office a change for a red tie and suit who make laws and incentives for the same billionaire friends.
A convenient fact many people, including Dave seem to forget.
Brexit has been an economic and social disaster for Britain as we knew it would be, it's obvious for all the world to see, but Dave doesn't need to go over that in every video.
The thrust of Dave's argument here is that, should the foreign investors that own the majority of Britain's remaining industry and infrastructure wish it, they could allow the UK Government to arrange trade agreements with China regarding the import of Chinese BEVs, outside of any EU and USA trade agreements.
It's a sequin in a field of cowpats, but it is a nonetheless a sequin.
@ that’s true. It’s the unspeakable truth that the British media don’t want to discuss. If you want the truth about Brexit, you have to watch foreign tv programmes for a true assessment.
Worth every penny.
I can see major issues if the UK changes VAT how would that apply to NI in the EU Single Market that would have to be negotiated. But that is nothing compared to Tariffs if the EU imposes Tariffs on Chinese EVs NI would have to apply the same Tariff. If GB doesn't it will be the NOT FOR EU on steroids There isn't a second hand market for used cheese but a GB car if that hadn't payed Tariffs sold (exported) second hand from GB into NI would be required to pay a tariff at least based on its second hand value. I can only see the next few years being an absolute Cluster#uck.
In Australia, the worst is seeing people sitting in there large utes, like the Ford Ranger, Toyota Landcruiser and HiLux with the engine running to keep the air conditioner running. All those fumes hopefully get recirculate.
Im not sure where we are getting money for 50% vat discount on EVs, scrapping £40k+ luxury car tax for evs, continuing the BIK tax breaks at the current rate or reducing VAT on public chargers to 5%. The UK has some clever rules on EV adoption. The mandated zero emissions targets for this year are 22% for new cars and 10% for new vans. Rising to 80% of cars and 70% vans in 2030 and 100% zero emissions vehicles in 2035. Sure the percentages could increase quicker and the loopholes fixed quicker... But the £15000 per car and £9000 per van fines for each vehicle a couple misses the target by are real. This means ICE manufacturers can actually cross subsidise EV sales to the tune of £15000 per car to achieve desired sales. The vehicle manufacturers are committed to doing this, and if they fail we will raise an absolute monster amount of £ in fines that will be very useful extra tax.
So the industry does not need any more unaffordable tax breaks. It needs some sensible regulation. Such as all car parks have x% of working ev chargers in them. All AC chargers mist be able to read the car number plate and bill directly to the cars or the car owners home energy plan. Failure to do this should result in chargers being on free vend. Failure to do this should result in the car park being shut. DC chargers should also bill direct to an owners home or car electricity tariff. With any speeds upto 75kw charged at tariff plus 10%. Speeds 75kw -175kw charged at tarrif +x% etc. sure there is room for some dynamic pricing... But this should be on your home tarrif or your car tariff depending on which a driver decides to use.
Either way this fixes the charging problem whereby people with a drive can charge up at 7p kwh and people without can charge up at 55p kwh. Reducing vat to 5% wont help much. Possibly the luxury car tax for EVs could be increased to £50k, instead of £40k... But there have already been some positive developments with a host of car makers reducing list price of evs to keep them below £40k. The plans for BIK were very clear in the October budget, whilst they are not as great as they were once, they are actually still very generous. As a country we need more people to take the bus, walk or cycle just to improve congestion, let alone to cut emissions and to make the buses a little bit more viable. Im all for subsiding public transport people use, im not particularly happy with subsiding dirty diesel buses that drive around empty or have less than 6 passengers for more than half of the day.
Far too complicated reading number plates and billing people's electricity supply accounts. Just use the method that is now the de facto standard for all smallish purchases, contactless. That is all that is needed.
If the ICE ban goes ahead as planned any tax cuts would be short lived as there is no reason to offer incentives to move to EV when it is the only option for new cars. At the moment take up is still good so the other incentives may not be needed. It would have been interesting to see what happened to EV take-up had the BIK incentives been cut from the budget. There is already a suggestion that many PHEVs never get charged because people only had them because of the BIK incentive, with the BIK incentive these wouldn't have been sold at all and I'm guessing that a lot of EV sales are the same.
@@rogerphelps9939 no that is not true. The standard charging protocol actually has billing built into it. Just no one uses it except Tesla. Billing is important to make sure that people without drives can charge up at the same rate as people without drives. I have a drive and charge up every night at 7p/kWh. Why should my neighbours have to pay 55p? Sure I invested £250 in a charging point from eBay and a further £150 in an electrician. But 3 or 4 years later cost has well and truly been covered.
@@onlineo2263 - The CSS based *_Plug and Charge_* protocol is available on none Tesla networks and cars. In the UK you can use it on Ionity via Octopus's Electroverse with certain car models for example. Fastned also do similar with their Autocharge service, but this is felt to be a little less secure when authenticating the car and the charger (payment interception/spoofing) than the CCS method (which uses digital certificates and public key based authentication).
Things are looking good? Tell me about depreciation.
Tell me about the 2 year old EVs coming to the market with 100 miles on the clock.
That'll do for now.
New video coming out on depreciation very soon you might want to watch
@@davetakesiton Naw, some people will die in the desert of heat stroke while complaining about the cold. You can't fix STUPID.
Sorry, Brexit yuk,nothing positive.
Are funded or sponsored by the Chinese? You seem to go on about it nearly every vid. If you buy a Chinese EV at a lower price than a European one, who really gains? What happens when the European EV sector simply can't compete because the Chinese EV manufacturers are propped up by their government, similar to Chinese steel a few years back when USA and Europe had to step in with tariffs as they were being under cut with China dumping cheap steel on the market? Think carefully, Who owns the software on a Chinese EV? Where does the data collected go? Who uses the data and for what? And. finally who has the ultimate power to switch off your EV or render it useless if so desired? In China, there are some areas where Tesla cars cannot go or park as the government fear the Tesla is spying and collecting data, these areas are clearly defined and marked. I lived and worked in China and Hong Kong for over 20 years - prior to and after the hand over and seen what they are capable of, That very cheap Chinese EV you always go one about is in reality, an expensive one!
Do you think Tesla is Chinese aswell, my Chinese was closed tonight what a disappointment that was
Blah blah blah...if subsidy is the advantage then why don't you anglo compete. Aren't the west particularly the anglo more rich and wealthier than the Chinese?
Jus remove tthe OTA stuff. Just pull a card out. That is all that is required.
An inadvertent Brexit Benefit… Unforeseen consequences I’m afraid… The EU have made a bad move on EV tariffs but it won’t last, that’s politics…
tell that to the German Audi and VW workers who don't have a job today
@ That’s the only Brexit Benefit for the UK. I feel so sorry for the workers losing their jobs, but they must look to the arrogance of companies like VW who had the opportunity to change but decided to reject the future, to not invest. They just wanted to carry on as always and use their muscle to force authorities to kick the emissions standards down the road. They tried to sell overpriced EV,s, they promoted the lie there was no demand. They thought that spreading the lie that it was impossible to make a sell affordable EV,s was a good idea, all the time whilst Tesla and major Chinese brands were doing that very thing, changing the automotive landscape forever. There is no going back and VW are sadly paying the price…
Jan- Sept '24: Tesla Model Y sales in Europe *DOWN 25%*
Skoda Enyaq is rated much higher than the Model Y by "Which" and indigenous to Europe too.
Is it surprising with the new model Y imminent?
@@crm114. January to Sept, is 9 months, a long wait time.
@@crm114. Yes. The new Tesla old banger won't be that much different.
Brexit has nothing to do with EVs, the UK had an opt out and could have impacted the tariffs being voted in whilst within the EU regardless.
Also, the form of brexit imposed on us does more to harm than help. Take Norway for example they're have the highest adoption rate of EVs per capita, are not subject to tariffs and yet are closer to the EU tradewise being in EFTA (a body the UK helped create). Instead the UK politicians in charge decided they would prefer to attempt to get closer to the USA, a country where there is 100% tariffs on foreign EV imports.
Yes, I don't do politics as such specifically because of these sorts of comments.
@@davetakesiton - Dave, my comment wasn't political either rather it was reflecting on this particular video's title, which to be honest strikes me more as _soft clickbait_ rather than political in nature.
With or without Brexit (of any ilk - hard, soft or torpid) the UK would likely be outside of tariffs in this case. It doesn't fit with the UK's industrial approach, the UK is more interested in having facilities operating within the UK rather than who, or which state, owns those facilities.
Further, seeking to be closer to the USA wouldn't assist the UK automaker industry; Brexit was more about the financial industries rather than manufacturing ones. Plus Tesla already dropped plans to open up facilities in the UK a while back, GM retrenched back to the home market, and Ford already operates but focusses on engines, parts and LCVs production lines in the UK.
The macro economic picture shows that brexit was, is and will continue to be bad for the UK. The auto industry has been ripe for a shake up for some time. The transition from ICE vehicles to electric is no more positively or negatively affected by brexit than moving from hiring DVDs at blockbuster to streaming movies. I think Dave is seeking confirmation bias here for an earlier decision that affects his credibility. He needs to accept we all get stuff wrong and perhaps to learn from it.
When the Romans left the UK the English just got on with it, and eventually they became the major Global power for a while. it could happen (sort of) again with the right attitude. I now live in NZ so could not be further away from the action if I tried, Brexit was a con, but what financial benefits could the British capitalize on going forward, now they are out of it?
Wow, have you misread me totally. We have a choice today: we can continuously bang on year after year about how bad Brexit was, wishing we had voted differently, wishing others had had the sense to have voted differently, forcing them to accept that those that voted for it were wrong, hoping desperately that maybe even now we can reverse it all because otherwise we are all doomed. Or we can get our act together and make the future better than ever. I moved on many, many years ago, literally the day after the vote. I think I already know what most people have decided.
@@davetakesiton Sorry Dave but poll after poll shows the majority of people think Brexit was a mistake. Yes we do have to look forward, but especially given Trump's isolationist stance, it is becoming more and more urgent to look at moving closer to the EU. That doesn't necessarily mean full rejoin, but in a world of increasing tensions and more hostile sharks it isn't a good idea to be a lone fish. So yes let's look forward, and not discount the idea that forward might mean towards the EU.
@@davetakesiton My apologies if I have got my reading wrong. I would point you to the speech by the Governor of the Bank of England this evening who more adeptly made some of the points I was trying to make.
Dave I have a question for you, as I'm struggling to find the answer. With you driving a Model S and VED starting on EVs from April 1st 2025. Do you know if you'll pay £190 or will you have to pay the "luxury tax" . The Gov website is confusing. Thanx in advance...
My non tesla EV will pay £10 each year up to and including 2029. To be reviewed after that.
The luxury car tax isn't applied retrospectively, it will only apply to EVs sold after 1st April 2024 and is for 5 years. The £190 doesn't apply to cars registered before 2017, their VED is on the old scale.
@paulweston1106 I drive a 71 plate Kia e-Niro but really wanna get a Tesla Model Y. I'm afraid I'll get shafted by the government
@@paulweston1106 - However, the government stated the luxury car tax for EVs will be reviewed before the start of the next tax year (most likely in the spring mini-budget) - speculated as most likely meaning they may tinker with the £40k threshold.
A lot of what Dave spouts is drivel. I love my EV but some of the vids are getting boring now.
Interesting video.Thank you Dave👍👍
Great content Dave, many thanks
I would not buy an EV just yet but have got a lease car through work, saved a fortune in tax, got a new Audi etron Quattro cheaper than I could personally, fully maintained and insured all included, no depreciation for me and didn't even have to pay a deposit, its really a win win. I get to try out a high end EV, don't have to worry about residual values, even get discounted charging at work, also a free charge card with over £450 on it if I need to use public charging. Have to say I am liking the Audi, great range, over 300 miles, super smooth and quiet
Excellent
53,000+ used BEVs sold in Q3 ? *77,000+ used Ford Fiestas sold in the same time frame.*
That will change, the closer we get to the 2030 cut-off for new fossil powered cars.🙂
Wow! You sound like a Remainer, Dave!
It is easy to forget that the Chinese have pulled their population from poverty into (comparative) affluence in 40 years and that the brutality applied to a substantial proportion of the UK population over a couple of hundred years by the wealthy over some 200 years was not insignificant. Have just bought a second EV (MG4, one year old, at £20k) - it is sitting in our garage, having charged overnight on Octopus Go for around £5.
wow, if I said that I would get hammered in the comments section, but secretly, between you and me, you do have some good points.
Good afternoon, one question: do Tesla car owners get a preferential price for the supercharger compared to the Non Tesla car ?
As technically Tesla owners pay for the network to be installed and serviced...
Yes we do, we get a lower rate but if a non Tesla pays for membership they get that lower rate also
They do. If you use their chargers regularly then having a paid subscription gets you better rates and is probably worth it.
@@paulweston1106 Probably? Depends how you define regularly. Once a month might be ‘regular’ but may not be ‘worth it’. People have different needs, and circumstances change. ‘Possibly’ might have been a better word than ‘probably’.
@@oliver90owner Frequently would probably be a better word to use but likely to be something that people would have to try to calculate.
@ Possibly, but I use the mathematicians scale of probability - from certain (100%) to impossible (0%). ‘Frequently’ is a bit wishy-washy, IMO.
Brexit is one of the reasons why charging is so expensive in the UK. The wholesale price of electricity is derived from the wholesale price of gas. Our gas prices are high because we aren't part of the European gas storage scheme and the government let Centrica mothball the Rough Gas storage facility in 2017. Rough is being brought back into service but it's not fully operational.
Yes, our gas and electricity prices are high due to the global market prices. However, I don't see how the Euro storage scheme is applicable to the UK, as we have massive gas pipeline connections to Norway, effectively acting as storage, in addition to our own remaining North Sea reserves.
It easy to generate electricity from natural gas, but is also a very expensive fuel over coal. Coal is difficult burn cleanly and new ultra supercritical clean coal plants are expense and take years to build, but in the US such a coal plant burning high BTU bituminous coal is predicted to have a crossover fueling price with natural gas at $0.80 per million BTUs. The UK price for wholesale natural gas in Oct. 2024 was in US equivalences $10.50 per million BTUs. Using UK bituminous coal would be expected to have less than 1/10th the fueling cost of natural gas.
Britain didn't automate its coal mining in the 1970s as the US did. By 1980 only 1/4th of the underground coal miners were employed as in 1970 producing more coal. In 2020s underground coal mining is greatly done by remote operation and maintenance technicians. There are a few somewhat traditional coal miners still used.
It is scientifically impossible for greenhouse gas behavior to cause global warming. Before Al Gore became US vise president in 1992 earth's water vapor saturated greenhouse effect was taught in US public education. Earth's saturated greenhouse effect absorbs all the greenhouse radiant energy from the earth with greenhouse gases within 20 meters of the radiating surface adding 5.55°C (10°F) to earth's average temperature.
@@douglasengle2704 You do a great job of sounding like you know what you're talking about but reveal yourself as a chronic bullshiter with the last paragraph.
@@douglasengle2704 Do we need to burn that muck just because it’s cheap?
True butt electricitty is about 4 times the price of gas per kwh. Combined cycle gas generating plant is 60% efficient so allowing for operaing profit etc electricity should not be much more than twice he price of gas. Something is off.
Thanks for bucking the trend of spouting outdated rubbish about EVs.
Despite widespread objection, smokers were pushed out of restaurants and other public places due to the blatantly obvious risk to health. Now, EVs are breaking through the naysayer arguments on similar grounds.
Funny how no one gets angry at polluting ICE car drivers driving past children walking on the pavement. Not yet anyway!
Unfortunately I can’t yet afford a suitable EV and I can’t charge at home, but I can see that it is a total no brainier to own an EV. I have a very low polluting car so I’m at least halfway there.
I’m sure there are thousands of people just like me in the U.K. who would love own an EV, but they are waiting until they are affordable (new OR used).
Affordable is going to mean something different to everyone. Used EVs are now affordable when compared alongside similarly aged and specced ICE cars and some of the early NIssan Leaf cars are going very cheap (although range is poor). If you can't charge at home the element that may impact on affordability is charging it. Assuming the ICE ban happens as planned I can see a situation where used ICE cars actually start to become more expensive due to demand and used EVs become even cheaper as they become more common.
The Lord Haw-Haw of EVangilists spouting propaganda
Hee Hee is how I laugh, not Haw Haw
With Brexit Great Britain should invigorate its domestic high quality bituminous coal industry for electric power. The fueling costs for a new ultra supercritical clean coal plant burning high BTU coal in the US has a crossover fueling cost at a natural gas priced at $0.80 per million BTUs. Cost of wholesale natural gas in the UK in US equivalences in Oct. 2024 was $10.50 per million BTUs. The coal freight would also bring much needed profit to UK railways.
It is scientifically impossible for greenhouse gas behavior to cause global warming. Before Al Gore became US vise president in 1992 earth's water vapor saturated greenhouse effect was taught in US public education. Earth's saturated greenhouse effect absorbs all the greenhouse radiant energy from the earth with greenhouse gases within 20 meters of the radiating surface adding 5.55°C (10°F) to earth's average temperature.
The strong greenhouse gas water vapor which concentration varies hugely across the earth's surface would hold earth's greenhouse effect in saturation if it were the only greenhouse gas in the atmosphere. At 1% average tropospheric water vapor over 99% of earth’s greenhouse effect is from water vapor.
There has been no climate change due to global warming as of 2024. Global warming at 1.5°C was predicted to cause climate change with stronger observable hurricanes in the Gulf-of-Mexico. Global warming was officially reported at 1.1°C in 1991 and 1.06°C in 2022. Global warming mysteriously paused at about 1°C in 1992. The cause of global warming is not known in 2024 despite decades of scientific studies.
The Arctic region is warming the rest of the world is not. Arctic warming is proving to be from warm Atlantic Ocean waters migrating more frequently and deeper into the Arctic Ocean warming it and the region. The warmer Arctic Ocean is causing a few less weeks of reflective snow and ice cover creating more solar heat gain to the region.
What a load of nonsense. By defintion a greenhouse gas is one that does cause global warming. And this can be easily demonstarted experimetally with eg CO2. Have a look at Venus if you have any doubt what a runaway greenhouse effect can do to a planet.
I agree with Doug, lets ignore 99.9% of the climate scientists over the globe and listen to Doug who obviously knows what he's talking about and has done lots of research in his home made lab, well done Doug!
Fantasy science! That'll help.
Honestly I have never heard such crap ,sorry
As I understand, UK coal fields were shut down as the sulphur content was too high and would not conform to emission regulations. Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken as I'm not a coal industry expert.