Our realm reaches out to the archipelago, far out to sea Many winters I have served my lord, for I am his trusted general of the sea-army with sword in hand. Though, sometimes bad things happen. With three ships we were, in the land of the Finns, ferrying furs and gold. On the way home I, along with my best warriors, was ambushed by unknown enemies, our ships sunk, and cargo stolen the water reddened that day. A bad fate - but I know that it is not my destiny. Here I sit, alone, on an abandoned island - wounded and deceived. Whether this is our realm anymore I do not know. True it may be - but fate is sealed - and I know mine, as sure as the sun rises - so will I have my vengeance.
oh wow this is so fun, I have so often seen pre or early germanic forms referenced but never in context with each other to get an idea of what the language sounded like at that point, great work
@@KirbyComicsVids As said, it was for a quite long time among the more conservative IE languages in Europe, only changing much more around classical antiquity.
@@scottnance2200 My theory (In Swedish): Man kan tänka sig ett proto-Germansk/Baltiskt urheimat någonstans i Vitryssland. Balternas förfäder stannade länge och flyttade bara lite västerut senare så deras språk var konservativt i de ödsliga skogarna. Germanernas förfäder flyttade över Östersjön och påverkades av PIE-dialekten Stridsyxekulturen talade där, samt av Gropkeramiska kulturens språk. Based on this: "We find evidence of a previously unknown, large-scale Bronze Age migration within Scandinavia, originating in the east and becoming widespread to the west and south, thus providing a new potential driving factor for the expansion of the Germanic speech community. This East Scandinavian genetic cluster is first seen 800 years after the arrival of the Corded Ware Culture, the first Steppe-related population to emerge in Northern Europe, opening a new scenario implying a Late rather than an Middle Neolithic arrival of the Germanic language group in Scandinavia. Moreover, the non-local Hunter-Gatherer ancestry of this East Scandinavian cluster is indicative of a cross-Baltic maritime rather than a southern Scandinavian land-based entry." www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2024.03.13.584607v1 800 years before CWC should mean around 2200 BC. Some 600 years after the Battle Axe culture in Scandinavia; coinciding with the "Dagger Culture"/Hällkistornas tid. And the mysterious I1 haplogroup.
@@scottnance2200 Or a still poorly differentiated dialect continuum? Further to the west, Celtic also has some affinities with Germanic on the one hand and with Italic/Latin on the other. The latter connection seems a bit more obvious though.
@@ansibarius4633 Germanic seems to share the most with Baltic and Italic. But just from the grammatical forms and pronounciation, I can imagine that this is fairly recognizable for anyone familiar with proto-celtic or proto-baltic.
Very interesting! Thank you for sharing this. At this stage of development, I can see much more affinity to PIE and to the other branches of the IE family. I would like to see the English translation of this poem though, for comparison. Could you add it to the notes in the descriptive summary?
Do you have a translation available? Not very many of these words are immediately recognisable, but many would probably make sense if we could see their modern forms.
I think I can discern something about someone being the 'fathiz' of a 'mari-harijaz' that is 'mikilaz', with a 'mekijaz' (sword) in his 'handuz'. There is also a preterite form 'hauzidedon' (with long o), and apparently the word 'druhtinaz' (leader)... Still trying to figure it out. I'm basically Grimmifying the PIE consonants into the classical PGmc ones.
Our realm reaches out to the archipelago, far out to sea Many winters I have served my lord, for I am his trusted general of the sea-army with sword in hand. Though, sometimes bad things happen With three ships we were, in the land of the Finns, ferrying furs and gold. On the way home I, along with my best warriors, was ambushed by unknown enemies, our ships sunk, and cargo stolen - the water reddened that day - a bad fate - but I know that it is not my destiny. Here I sit, alone, on an abandoned island - wounded and deceived. Whether this is our realm anymore I do not know - true it may be - but fate is sealed - and I know mine, as sure as the sun rises - so will I have my vengeance.
@@tidsdjupet-mr5ud O, that explains a couple of things. I took the proto-'gangidi' form as indicating literal movement, i.e. of people. And apparently proto-'hauzijanan' is used in the sense of 'gehoorzamen', 'gehorchen'. 'Pentan' has nothing to do with finding, but is the name of the Finns. And the word that I took for 'to carry' means 'trade'. 'Elkil-' was really confounding, but the translation suggests a connection with English 'ill'. Very helpful, interesting exercise.
Nice! Dont love your extralong vowels - id probably lean towards shortening the articulation of all your vowels. Doesnt sound really pronouncable. But otherwise very cool!
@@tidsdjupet-mr5ud For sure. And I'm absolutely nitpicking here. But I would try to make it more similar to existing 3-way vowel length phonologies, like Estonian
Is this form of the language during or before the Finnic languages started taking loanwords from it? Because it kinda sounds a bit Finnic to me even at this stage.
Finnish does have loan words from proto-germanic like kuningas (from *kuningaz) and ruhtinas (from *druhtinaz) so yes this is during the time when germanic people started having contact with Finnic people
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Our realm reaches out to the archipelago, far out to sea
Many winters I have served my lord, for I am his trusted general of the sea-army with sword in hand.
Though, sometimes bad things happen.
With three ships we were, in the land of the Finns, ferrying furs and gold.
On the way home I, along with my best warriors, was ambushed by unknown enemies,
our ships sunk, and cargo stolen the water reddened that day.
A bad fate - but I know that it is not my destiny.
Here I sit, alone, on an abandoned island - wounded and deceived.
Whether this is our realm anymore I do not know.
True it may be - but fate is sealed - and I know mine,
as sure as the sun rises - so will I have my vengeance.
oh wow this is so fun, I have so often seen pre or early germanic forms referenced but never in context with each other to get an idea of what the language sounded like at that point, great work
@@KirbyComicsVids As said, it was for a quite long time among the more conservative IE languages in Europe, only changing much more around classical antiquity.
Man i waited for a text in pre proto germanic for 5 years. Today i got it first time 😭😭 can't tell you how happy i am
To my untrained ear, this sounds almost like Lithuanian or Latvian. It's not nearly as consonant-heavy as the modern Germanic languages.
Look up Old-Prussian
Another Baltic language. So at some point was there a proto-Balto-Slavo-Germanic language? I’ve never heard of that, but …
@@scottnance2200 My theory (In Swedish): Man kan tänka sig ett proto-Germansk/Baltiskt urheimat någonstans i Vitryssland. Balternas förfäder stannade länge och flyttade bara lite västerut senare så deras språk var konservativt i de ödsliga skogarna. Germanernas förfäder flyttade över Östersjön och påverkades av PIE-dialekten Stridsyxekulturen talade där, samt av Gropkeramiska kulturens språk.
Based on this:
"We find evidence of a previously unknown, large-scale Bronze Age migration within Scandinavia, originating in the east and becoming widespread to the west and south, thus providing a new potential driving factor for the expansion of the Germanic speech community. This East Scandinavian genetic cluster is first seen 800 years after the arrival of the Corded Ware Culture, the first Steppe-related population to emerge in Northern Europe, opening a new scenario implying a Late rather than an Middle Neolithic arrival of the Germanic language group in Scandinavia. Moreover, the non-local Hunter-Gatherer ancestry of this East Scandinavian cluster is indicative of a cross-Baltic maritime rather than a southern Scandinavian land-based entry."
www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2024.03.13.584607v1
800 years before CWC should mean around 2200 BC. Some 600 years after the Battle Axe culture in Scandinavia; coinciding with the "Dagger Culture"/Hällkistornas tid. And the mysterious I1 haplogroup.
@@scottnance2200 Or a still poorly differentiated dialect continuum? Further to the west, Celtic also has some affinities with Germanic on the one hand and with Italic/Latin on the other. The latter connection seems a bit more obvious though.
@@ansibarius4633 Germanic seems to share the most with Baltic and Italic.
But just from the grammatical forms and pronounciation, I can imagine that this is fairly recognizable for anyone familiar with proto-celtic or proto-baltic.
Väldigt intressant! Ser ändå en hel del moderna ord i en mycket tidigare tappning. Tack för detta och fortsätt vara asgrym!
Not sure if it's from the speakers own language but I do recognize an Icelandic touch to it along with the similarities to Lithuanian.
Very interesting! Thank you for sharing this. At this stage of development, I can see much more affinity to PIE and to the other branches of the IE family.
I would like to see the English translation of this poem though, for comparison. Could you add it to the notes in the descriptive summary?
The translation is in the first comment
@@philandrews2860 This is also a quite conservative IE language for its time. Since most of the major Germanic sound shifts are afterwards.
@@Istoria-Movy - thank you
this is so great
Do you have a translation available? Not very many of these words are immediately recognisable, but many would probably make sense if we could see their modern forms.
I think I can discern something about someone being the 'fathiz' of a 'mari-harijaz' that is 'mikilaz', with a 'mekijaz' (sword) in his 'handuz'. There is also a preterite form 'hauzidedon' (with long o), and apparently the word 'druhtinaz' (leader)... Still trying to figure it out. I'm basically Grimmifying the PIE consonants into the classical PGmc ones.
Our realm reaches out to the archipelago, far out to sea
Many winters I have served my lord, for I am his trusted general of the sea-army with sword in hand.
Though, sometimes bad things happen
With three ships we were, in the land of the Finns, ferrying furs and gold.
On the way home I, along with my best warriors, was ambushed by unknown enemies, our ships sunk, and cargo stolen - the water reddened that day - a bad fate - but I know that it is not my destiny.
Here I sit, alone, on an abandoned island - wounded and deceived.
Whether this is our realm anymore I do not know - true it may be - but fate is sealed - and I know mine, as sure as the sun rises - so will I have my vengeance.
@@tidsdjupet-mr5ud O, that explains a couple of things. I took the proto-'gangidi' form as indicating literal movement, i.e. of people. And apparently proto-'hauzijanan' is used in the sense of 'gehoorzamen', 'gehorchen'. 'Pentan' has nothing to do with finding, but is the name of the Finns. And the word that I took for 'to carry' means 'trade'. 'Elkil-' was really confounding, but the translation suggests a connection with English 'ill'. Very helpful, interesting exercise.
@@tidsdjupet-mr5ud Thank you.
Is the story inspired by the Viking ships at Salme in Estonia? (750 AD).
@@alicelund147 No, it is based on early Pgmc and Finnic contact. So more than a millenia earlier.
Would this element "kan-" be the ancestor of "ga-"? gasagjaz, "co-fighter"?
Yes, it is ga-sagjaz
Nice! Dont love your extralong vowels - id probably lean towards shortening the articulation of all your vowels. Doesnt sound really pronouncable. But otherwise very cool!
I think it would sound even more similar to Baltic if I would pronounce it much faster.
@@tidsdjupet-mr5ud For sure. And I'm absolutely nitpicking here. But I would try to make it more similar to existing 3-way vowel length phonologies, like Estonian
Is this form of the language during or before the Finnic languages started taking loanwords from it? Because it kinda sounds a bit Finnic to me even at this stage.
www.academia.edu/123002491/Ancient_Scandinavian_and_earlier_Germanic_Loanwords_in_Finnic
It started at this stage and continued.
Tuoli
@@tidsdjupet-mr5ud Definitely
Finnish does have loan words from proto-germanic like kuningas (from *kuningaz) and ruhtinas (from *druhtinaz) so yes this is during the time when germanic people started having contact with Finnic people
Låter som en grek pratar litauiska. 🤔
Both archaic IE languages along with Sanskrit.
im a bit confused you pronounced proto germanic /γ/ as /g/
This is not Pgmc proper, but an earlier stage.
pretty
is ⟨a⟩ pronounced /ɑ/ in pre-pro-gmc?
@@yuminsama1301 Yes, in particular long a.