As a young driver who is completing the basic IAM advanced driving course, the amount you learn in the standard cat b test is ridiculous. I had never driven on a motorway until after I had passed. This is the same for a standard back road. I had had no training on how to make safe progress on a fast road, even down to planning overtakes, acceleration sense, 3 stage braking and even basic positioning. The amount I have learnt from the advanced course has drastically changed my driving style and the way I deal with hazards on the road. I would highly recommend this course to anyone, inexperienced or not.
Recently passed too and while I was learning my dad taught me a lot of the practices from these courses seeing as he took a few advanced driving courses and the BMW motorcycle experience (probably not the correct name) and I agree, it’s incredible the amount you’re not taught in standard lessons
Yes, I suspected that this was part of the problem. Its the quality of training given in the standard UK license process that has greatly declined (in my area anyway). I took my lessons and test 22 years ago and the IAM license a few years after and the basic manoeuvring and judgements that my first instructor taught me, were the same as the ones the IAM taught. I must of had a hell of an instructor. Fast forward 18 years and the horror stories I heard of what my eldest was being taught and the fact she failed her first 2 practical's, made me teach her instead. E.g, daughter was taught to fully stop at a roundabout if another car was present at any of the other giveway lines. After I showed her the correct way to drive she passed, with 1 minor for clutch control. She had an emergency stop situation during her test and was commended by the assessor for "perfect process and beating him to the pedals".
@@andytomlinson415 I have a mate who passed in the recent months. I was watching him reverse into a parking space. He was moving very slowly so I asked if he was using the gas pedal. At this point he told me "I didn't know you could do that"
I like many others think that there should be motorway training available after you pass the driving test. After all, most peoples driving includes motorways.
Same, just turned 28 but am in medical debt (American) so I had to sell my car and have been doing without for months.....so I have been walking, sometimes 10-15 mikes a day....with my health problems...but it is what it is....on top of all the, the doctors can't figure out what is wrong with me
Heard a story here in Ireland of a first time driver getting a Renault Zoe and being quoted €7000 to insure it and being told it was because of the performance of the car. If that trend keeps up there won’t be any new drivers. Insurance companies really need to kop on
Insurance groups are still a thing then, Zoe 14 - 22 while a VW Up is group 1 I think most of us will remember looking through things like parkers guide and making sure our first cars weren't too expensive . . . .
What insurance costs, certainly in GB, is based on more than just the performance of the car. But young, novice, drivers are always going to be a greater risk than those who have proven themselves to be 'safe'.
As someone who started driving a few months ago, another thing people seem not to consider is the wait for tests. I failed my first time and was on a year waiting list for a retest. It’s such a pain, and so discouraging for people wanting to drive
@@wayland7150 currently it's 3 weeks, but it's trying to book the test I passed in 2017 and had hundreds of tests available, these days you're lucky to find one in the same year.
Really good point. I’ve been driving for over 40 years having passed my test just before age 18. I’ve had all sorts of car types up to 500 bhp “monsters” and as you pointed out started in a normally aspirated 1300 cc car. The volume of traffic has changed radically in that time. The amount of room / decision time on motorways and A roads in persist heavy traffic has also conferred a much higher level of competency and ability than that we needed all that time ago. Further - and based on my Wife’s recent change of car from an SUV to a relatively powerful EV. The skill set needed to control such a vehicle ( 240 bhp immediately available thru rear wheels ) is radically different to a ‘normal’ car. The set up is completely different, braking different, cornering difficult and can be a real issue to drive in Snow or Icy conditions. I don’t like driving it if it’s the future of motoring experience. The lack of need to control gears etc., and relatively noise free environment ( you can’t sub - consciously ‘hear’ the engine and what it’s doing ) are issues. As an “Oldie” I think I can navigate this change but am more than aware if you don’t drive relatively defensive in some of these cars you will end up in a heap of problems quickly. And I believe there’s still no Motorway driving module as part of the current driving test. That’s simply ridiculous in this day and age.
yeah, in the old days you could basically get a test every 2 weeks. So you could take like 50 tests in the 2 years it takes your theory to expire! Now you only get about 2 tests before you have to pay and do the theory all over again! (and hopefully pass) before you try to find another practical test available!! Madness
You know as a motorcyclist, I have thought for decades that all potential drivers should have to take a cbt. So they will understand the dangers and vulnerability of the road. As for new riders, about two months before the motorcycle law changed which was January 20th 2013. I taught my son to ride and he took his full bike test at 17 and had to ride a restricted bike for 2 years. But once he was 18 or 19 he was riding legally superbikes including a hayabusa. Mad I know, but that's how it was before 2013.
I did my motorcycle driving test before any stepped requirements and had a full license at 18. I, nor any of my friends had any issues with riding unrestricted bikes. I think it's an exaggerated issue overall, it really is an incredibly small percentage who are problem-cases and even they tend to injure only themselves. Actually I think the stepped license system helps older riders most: it keeps a large amount off of bikes altogether as their egos can't stand riding a smaller bike or any waiting, restrictions, anything. And for the small amount who do get into motorcycling at a later stage in life they have far less ability to learn than young people. They are the ones with most trouble handling the bikes, learning the techniques. When I was looking to buy a Harley the old guy testing the bike before me never came back, he got a ride directly to the hospital and the bike came back on a recovery truck. And I read safety statistics and industry news, and at least at that time the statistics showed the biggest number of motorcycle accidents for people 40+. Even though that of course is partially due to them being able to afford riding more at that age group, that still shows us which group has the most accidents. A certain group of young people are going to mess up no matter what, and piling on costs and unnecessary restrictions on the responsible people is unfair.
As a motorcyclist I heard that a lot in forums but simply put some people maybe a lot of people simply cannot ride a bike. Hopefully the hazard awareness part has been added that should help with that. I also noticed it mentioned in the speed awareness course.
I’m at university and the amount of people you talk to who aren’t bothering getting a licence because it’s too expensive/not required is surprising, it’s just not appealing to a lot of people which is a shame and insurance really kills it for a lot of people
@@JayEmmOnCars it definitely does, what makes it worse is the parking situation because even if young people can afford a car very few have a place to park it or can afford to, at my accommodation there is only 10 car parks for 250 people and it costs £400 a year to get one
They will have their lives of sitting at home and eating bugs, and getting their thrills from pharmaceutical substances or whatever the leftists want criminal gangs pouring over the border (at this point I'm sure that the political parties are being funded by criminal smuggling gangs, both in the UK and especially in the US!).
@@Lewis2710 i think that is just the case in urban areas now, so many low emission zones are popping up.. It's just becoming a fact of life that if you want to live near a city then you might need to take public transport..
I'm a HGV1 driver and think that there SHOULD be a second part to the test. And that AFTER passing a test for A and B roads you will have to pass a Motorway test before you are allowed on to a Motorway. I encounter people everyday entering the Motorway system at speeds from 20 mph upto 40 mph, lane hogging at slow speeds, driving to close to the car in front, phone in hands whilst driving, I spotted a bloke today eating his cereal from a bowl at 50 mph!! I was taught to value C.O.A.S.T . . . . Consideration, Observation, Anticipation, Space and Time. There needs to be a radical rethink in teaching driving values.
For an American listening to the requirements it's amazing. In California, it's an add on to your regular license. You're given a learners permit to drive the bike of your choice and then the practical test. End of story. This may be unpopular, but I've been watching Clarkson's Farm. The level of rules and regulations amazes me. Especially for a farm. I've been to the Cotswolds and yes it's beautiful. But after spending two weeks in Provence last year it's clear that French regulations are a lot less restrictive.
I’m a relatively new driver, I had one lesson on a proper motorway (3 lane and a hard shoulder). A few weeks after I passed my test I took my little XC70 up to Liverpool, 150 mile trip, and the smart motorways are terrifying. I was stressed out about the bunch of different speed cameras, the matrix boards showing inconsistent signs and the amount of drivers who don’t have lane discipline. I had to venture out into the outside lane getting bullied by German cars that wanted to go faster than 70. I was more focused on my speed than looking at the road. I think if they go ahead with “upgrading” the motorways then a part of the tests should take place on a “smart” motorway so new drivers are confident on them. My drivers test was in Chippenham and I barley went on a duel carriageway, 95% of my test was on town driving. To summarise I believe at least 3 hours should be spent on duel carriageway and motorway driving to help new drivers get more experience on driving on fast expressways. In addition knowledge should be passed on about braking distance for HGVs and lane disciple, also what to do in the event of a breakdown on a “smart” so everyone can benefit from a much better standard of driving.
I used to think that too, but I disagree with you after thinking about it for a year or so. I think motorways are for confident drivers, you do a town drive first, then a 50 and a A road and then with enough experience off you go on the motorway. Experience is a key. When you first pass a test you are an inexperience driver. It's jour job to build your skills, some time passes you get better bla bla bla. Damage control you know? 3,4 lanes, 70miles per hour and inexperienced learners.. just imagine the massacre. That I think is a hazard to other road users and driving instructors. And yes, new drivers get on motorway and make mistakes, yes. But they had opportunity to build their skills first, they chose not to. You can get literally anywhere you like without getting on the motorway. It js not a must. You can just go and an A road, it will take 20 mins extra, but you are an inexperienced driver that 20 minutes if more time to gain experience. Motorways are not all that different from busy A roads, really. And if you hoped on 150 miles trip straight after passing your test, had a bad time and blamed it on lack of Motorway experience or lack of learning that's wrong wrong. You chose to go on a motorway knowing you were lacking skills and confidence, do you get my point? 4 hours with instructor during lessons on motorway is not how you build experience its how you have an experience. It's how you crash and give yourself ptsd ;) do you get my point?
@@SiostraEmo i recently passed and motorways are so much easier than busy town driving. I had 0 motorway training and went on it first day driving my own car.
I passed my test on a Friday afternoon at 17 years old, and on the Saturday morning rocked up to Castle Coombe and spent the day on the skid pan. Best training I ever got, and has stayed with me for 35 years. Me and my mates were building and driving kit cars (primarily Westfields) at 17-18 years old, but there just seemed to be much more appreciation of what was under your right foot back then. I may be wrong, but it's a very different car culture for the youngsters these days, it seems. Most of us had full bike licenses at 17 too, when you just took a test on a 125 and could then ride anything. Sadly, I had a couple of mates in wheelchairs before their early 20s, so I do support the tiered licensing system, for both bikes and cars.
This keeps coming up. If 'older folk' had more accidents they would be paying far higher insurance premiums. Insurers have the best accident database and charge young drivers the highest premiums based on driver age.
@@martinhoare9525 The accident profile is vastly different between younger and older people, as well as between women and men. Generally, older people have a lot more low speed accidents, as well as physically scraping against various objects. No points for guessing why or which type of accidents are more expensive. Problem arises when you put 1000hp not just in the hand of young hoons, but people who over time lost the ability to separate the accelarator pedal from the brake....
@@martinhoare9525the amount of near misses that I’ve had because of an older driver is ridiculous, most of the time they aren’t even aware of what they did.
I totally agree with your thoughts on the high performance of electric cars. The people who get them will probably only have driven small family hatchbacks, and are now driving a performance car. The acceleration that an EV has can get you into a lot of trouble very quickly. On the subject of elderly drivers, my father was driving a BMW Mini Cooper S in his 80’s, and he was a very good driver. As I am approaching “elderly” status, and drive a Porsche, I have learnt through driving many performance cars, that you need to treat their power with respect.
The acceleration getting you out of trouble argument is a rather spurious. The essential knowledge required is to not get into the situation where it is required. One of the 'joys' of starting on a moped back in my youth was the knowledge that the slightest cock-up could be my last. You learn to ride defensively, read traffic and the road ahead and not take the risks that lead to needing to get out of trouble in the first place. Making people start in the car equivalent would hopefully teach them the same skills.
I passed my test in May. I haven't started driving yet due to very high insurance costs on anything, second hand prices and lack of parking. I know when I do start I will need A lot of practice. Its a shame because after a lot of work beating my nerves, I really loved driving. My instructor wouldn't put me through until test as fails increase the likelihood that they will be retested, which is fair enough. Most people I know my age group (early 20s) do not have a license/want one due to aforementioned costs, test booking times, instructor availability etc. Huge shame we don't have as many 2nd handers as the US. Great video!
I am 20 years old living in London. Ive watched every single one of your videos and have spent WAY too much time browsing on auto trader (for no reason except entertainment) and reading about the most random cars on wikipedia. Yet even I have not bothered getting my license. Where I live it would cost me almost £4000 a year to get insured on an entry level corsa. £70 per 2 hour lesson and a 18 month waiting list to book your test + no such thing as parking in my area, and a much faster and cheaper tube within walking distance. Its a real shame especially coz most of my dream cars are not ulez compliant (106 rallye and various other early 2000's bmw's)
As ever many valid points. Despite the way the media present older people, we're not all so old and doddery that we need tiny car with an auto box to drive to the local shop because our Zimmer frame won't take us that far. I'm in my seventies, I've always loved driving and enjoy the sort of roads you were on in the vid - great fun, even if I don't have the resources for the kind of machinery you drive. The old saying that there's a lot of fun driving a slow car fast is true. There's another anomaly with licences. When you turn seventy they take away your minibus entitlement. This didn't bother me as I don't need it these days, but I'm still allowed to drive the very same vehicle so long as it doesn't have seating for so many passengers and it doesn't have windows in the sides. It's called a van! Crazy. The rear visibility for reversing is worse in a van, especially it it's a Luton body.
Another brilliant video mate, some excellent points! I've always wanted my bike licence, ridden loads of motocross when I was younger and been obsessed with MotoGP/Superbikes etc all my life, great that I now have the licence and partial brain power to access two wheels, albeit during the summer months 😉Cheers!
I would scrap all of the current system and just have a 2 stage process for both car and bike. For bike, no matter your age you do a 2 day course with a multi choice theory test (a halfway house between CBT and the current full test), allowing you to ride a 125 forever with P plates but no motorways or pillion. After 2 years of continuous ownership you can re take the course on a 600cc+ remove the P plates (if you do it on an auto you are limited to auto). For car, I would have a similar thing, you have to do it in a car with no more than 200bhp and no more than 150bhp/ton but instead of a 1hr test where you have to be perfect it would be 2 days with an instructor and at the end if they are happy you are not a danger to others than you get your license with P plates and no motorway use. after 2 years you can do the course again with a more powerful car (auto limits you to auto only). In order to drive HGV you must have the full size car or bike license meaning you should already have 2 years experience and have had 4 full days training and passed 2 tests.
You come to Jay because of a breakdown and review of some exotic Italian sports car one day, you stay for these wonderful videos speaking his mind about the state of driving in the UK and how much you agree with his thoughts. Great piece here again!
Just marry the first category a new driver can have to the Japanese Kei car spec. Perfectly serviceable runabouts, with several manufacturers ready to meet demand with a large variety of models to fit all tastes in production. They even come with the steering wheel on the correct side.
As a 75+ year old with 60 years of driving experience behind me, most of it either on the roads you are on in this video or motorway driving. I would agree with you on the EV scenario not only for new drivers but also those of my age! I would not be against a fitness test for those over 70 with regards to perception and reaction times etc. Currently we have to renew our licence every three years from age 70 but there is virtually no restrictions, as you could be almost blind, deaf, or loosing your cognitive abilities, and still be allowed to drive! The one thing I would like to see being banned completely in cars are mobile phones, as they have been the cause of as many accidents as drink. I also think that any audio equipment should have a volume limit strictly imposed purely from a safety point of view. Drivers have to be able to hear other motorists & emergency vehicles!
Problem is young people today actually drive about with headphones on. Yes it is absolutely bonkers. What's worse is infotainment systems in most new cars are as distracting and dangerous as mobile phones.
I don't know why my motorcycle licence is part of my driving licence, so if I get banned from cars it affects me on bikes too. It's not right. You do separate tests, they're complete separate skills, so why is it legally one thing. A pilots licence is separate isn't it. Just a thought I had.
JayEmm at Glenshee! Gorgeous drive that - I'm from Aboyne just up the road so get to have a good spirited drive over the hills whenever I'm heading back home from University - always spend most of the drive looking forward to it. I agree wholeheartedly with what you say in the video regarding engine (or battery) restrictions for new drivers, and I'm really enjoying the discussion surrounding what is actually learned throughout the licensing process from other viewers. When I had my test I'd been learning to drive with my Dad who'd been driving for near on 50 years and the amount of 'advanced' techniques he taught me was all stuff I didn't realise was 'advanced' in the first place until I spoke to my mates who had also passed. I don't mean to say I'm an incredible driver by any means but I thought it was interesting how differently they viewed certain aspects of driving - making progress, planning overtakes, etc - but it makes sense when none of these things are factored into the DVLA curriculum. I have several friends who have never overtaken anyone outwith a dual carriageway/motorway because they think it's too dangerous! I should imagine it helps a great deal if you're into cars when you're learning to drive too, though. I knew that when I was learning with my Dad I was going into it with a real desire to drive because I'd always loved cars, whereas my girlfriend is only learning at the moment because she needs to - she wouldn't bother learning if she didn't have to. Perhaps someone who has just been taught 'to drive' by an instructor might think that what they've been taught is all there is to know. Food for thought, I suppose. Great video as always!
As you are driving in Scotland i believe that you should know that the SNP are working towards the removal of at least 20% of all Private Vehicles within a few years. If Scotland which is predominately a rural country can consider this, then perhaps more urban areas will view this utopian ideal more favourably . eg Oxford. London and Bristol with their high charges for ULEZ zones and the new madness of rationing roads by POST CODE and Days of the week up to a maximum of about 100 days per annum called Low Traffic Neighbourhoods.
This is pretty much the way it works in Australia (State of Victoria specifically in this example) At 16 you take a theory exam on roadrules and such, then they give you a learner's permit where you have to drive with a full license holder sitting next to you at all times and no longer than 2 hours at a time, you also must display a big yellow L plate. 2 years and atleast 150 logged hours of varied condition driving later you do the strict practical test (in a manual for a manual and auto license or auto for just an auto license) with a state driving tester and you get your P (propationary) license which has 2 levels, the Red P plate for the first year, the first 6 months of which there's a driving curfew that goes from midnight to 5am unless for necessary work or study, you can only carry one passenger and in some states you can only drive 90kph, then the Green P plate for another 3 years where you can have more passengers and can drive the full speed limit but you are still limited to cars with 130kw/t (kilowatts per metric tonne) or less (including EV's) until you are then given your full license where you are free to drive what you want at the minimum age of 21. There are also lots of other restrictions on towing loads, blood alcohol content, more punishment for speeding and other traffic offenses etc.
Your on to something Jay. I'm 37, past my test best part of 20yrs ago, early 2000's my first car on the road was a MG ZR Trophy, (the entry level 105, with I think the optional extra of the 17" multi spoke alloys from original owner, no CD player/EW) cost me £7995, & just over 3k to insure. After that I had a 1.4 polo 6n2, slower but better built car. I then tried getting a Classic Impreza WRX. But as I was not 25 I was unable to get anyone to insure me on, this being around 2006/2007 roughly. But a few years back I see on insta where 17 year old are driving around in i30N's etc, maybe things changed but it's daft that kids with no experience can jump in quick cars compared to what I was able to as a first time driver, yes I had that ZR, but were not that quick, 100bhp ish, no torque and flat out eventually at 110ish. That car was the ceiling for me to actually get insurance on, I had the option of two RX7's for a very similar price, but no one touch me insurance wise.
I have been driving since I was 17 and I am retiring this year at 66 almost 50 years on the road, I have had 911’s, supercharged jags, range rovers, Morris minors , all sorts. I currently have a Tesla M3 long range, the standard reps car and next to bottom of the Tesla range, and it’s too fast way too fast, and that speed is addictive and just too accessible, there is no longer any joy in hooking up a series of bends, climbing that curvy twisting road up the steep hill. It’s x box performance, and I agree not for the new inexperienced driver, but as electric cars become a standard company car, I am convinced that the recovery services will be pulling company car drivers out of hedges all over the country, and in the winter I suspect it’s only the 4wd that saves them. So totally agree staged access is the thing, just don’t take MY electric car away when I get older, 😊 is that shortbread over there?
Here in Malaysia it is also the same. The RTD introduces two driving lessons one for manual and one for automatic. If you choose automatic in your license there will be indicator "A" indicating that you are only authorised to drive automatic cars. Both my kids opted for this even though I advised them to take manual lessons. Part of it is due the hill stop test and normally for manual car most people will fail as it takes skill to balance the accelerator and cluth pedals.
I passed my motorcycle test waaaaay back when the examiner simply watched from the roadside having given some instructions about which roads I was to take! He was apparently able to run down a few alleyways to see me pass by and at one point stepped out to make me do an emergency stop. Back at the test centre I was asked 3 questions from the highway code, then congratulated on my pass, at which point I was licensed to ride absolutely any motorcycle of any power. I could now go to the local motorcycle shop and buy a 120bhp 140mph superbike, well I could if I was rich enough! I think you're spot on with staged licensing. Most people never ever drive high powered cars. We might all be interested in them, but really most people aren't. Most people are driving run of the mill hatchbacks that are competent short distance shopping and commuting cars, but hardly taxing to drive. People might think this becomes some kind of wealth tax again, only rich people would be able to afford the extra tests, but let's face it, you're going to need a bit of spare cash to run a performance vehicle. Of course, being ancient, none of this would apply to me 🙂
Interesting video as usual James, being honest, I am a young chap myself, only with about 6 months experience, I am a petrolhead - love cars but I understand the importance of being safe, not doing dangerous things on the road, it only takes one little thing to have an accident and injure somebody. That's why I don't take risks or do anything dangerous on the roads, especially in busy urban areas. It's okay to stretch a cars legs on some faster A-roads sometimes but understanding the speed limits, the limits of the car, and your driving ability as well as the conditions of the road and weather. Some people just pass their test, have a blatant disregard for safety and don't know how easy it is to get into an accident. I think most young drivers are already pretty crippled by insurance and telematics policies to not be in fast cars but even in slow cars you can still do a horrific amount of damage. Road safety is very important and maybe more education about it might help. But we don't want insurance to rise anymore than it already is. Shouldn't be the norm to pay thousands for insurance but instead to reduce the amount of accidents caused by newly passed drivers.
Great video as always Jay! Here in Italy we have something similar to what you put forward: for the first year of you having a license, you can only drive cars with less than 95hp and a power to tare ratio of 75hp/t (which in my opinion as a petrolhead is almost too strict cause modern cars weigh and cost a lot more than the Punto or mk2 Clio us mortals can afford. Also, even if the old beaters aren't as heavy, with 4 passengers and no turbo options pulling out in a roundabout becomes genuinely dangerous, unless you dump the clutch and burn it in the process). In addition to that, for the 3 years as a novice driver you have to be completely sober (which should be the norm for everyone), if you break the highway code you get double the points taken away from your license (that's why grandparents get so many speeding tickets: grandchildren driving the only car they can and wanting to keep their license after going 33 in a 30). Icing on the cake, novice drivers have lower speed limits (60 instead of 80 on highways, 55 in 70mph motorways; I rounded a bit so non-metric folks don't have to google conversions).
Oh you are a youngster Jay. I've never had a lesson or test on 2 wheels, yet can ride my 1972 Puch Maxi S 50cc moped without L-plates on my car licence. Having passed in 1996 I can drive up to 7.5 tonne too and did many years back working for recovery firms.
Absolutely agree, when humdrum cars start doing sub 5 0-60 times then that may have the side effect of effectively having 2 tonne missiles on the road with an "inadequate control system" onboard.
I passed my B in 2009, my A2 in 2015 and my full A in 2022. The staging on bikes makes perfect sense from an idiot-proofing perspective. I think a staged process up the car types makes perfect sense. I know FAR more wallies in cars than on bikes. Check out how the driving licence works in Finland - very interesting.
I disagree - this happens in Australia and it’s a ridiculous outdated system. I have many friends under 21 with cars over 150bhp/tonne and nobody has crashed or been done for excessive speed, and they don’t drive irresponsibly. Dangerous drivers will be dangerous no matter what the car and I think that’s a big part of it, we’re all into cars so we sort of know what we’re doing and where the car’s limit is. Insurance is prohibitive enough under 21 and electric cars are particularly expensive for young drivers so I don’t think we need this system, at least not yet. I have thought about it before though, good video.
I think at current it doesn’t matter an enormous amount as insurance is so ludicrously high for anyone below 21-25 with any car a with a bit of power I think adding more tests would not actually result in much of a noticeable change for young people and what car they own, may work better for older drivers with less experience though.
Brilliant!! A country drive with a subject that is not about the car you're in. It's like a podcast on wheels with cool drive by's / sound / exterior shots etc... Jay has tapped into something new here. Go for a drive in a cool car and pic an interesting subject on "anything"... and with his wordsmith talent it is damn entertaining.
I think even just having changing how driving is taught in England would help a lot in terms of road/driver safety and in turn help with insurance costs. Here in Germany we have to learn to drive with a dedicated instructor who takes you through a curriculum to teach and show you the dangers on the road and taking you to increasingly challenging/dangerous roads in your area usually staying in town/city centre if you live near one whilst also doing some B-road driving. On top of this you have to complete a minimum set of hours of B-road, night and motorway driving during which they make sure you are made aware on how to behave and what dangers can occur. Then when your instructor thinks you are ready to take the exam your instructor sits with you while a state examiner sits in the back. All this has been getting rather expensive in recent years with everything coming in at around 2000 Euros but that isn't stopping most young people learning to drive. With this you are allowed to drive a car up to a max. theoretical loaded weight of 3,5 tonnes or a car-trailer combo up to the same 3,5 tonne rule. This leads to not just people in general being safe drivers but also having respect of the roads. However even so I think having an extra course for particularly high powered cars would be a good idea
Exactly. While VW sold their new GTIs only to 21 years that seemed like a marketing move bcause you just could have you're parent's or older sibling or so buy it for you. Or buy it not directly from VW. For motor bikes here in Germany there is also a max HP per kg rule (adapted to the EU rules a few years ago). A power to wheight ratio for cars would be great. You could still drive the Zeo or the electric Fiat 500 but that would be the limit ~8 to 9 seconds to 100km/h/62mph.
@@nitrovent Another thing to note is that while you might be able to just go and buy any car you want at any age here in Germany, insurances often won't insure people under 21 or often even 25 for sportier cars even if they don't have particularly high power-to-weight ratio. A friend of mine has an Elise in the family but insurances won't cover him to drive without elder supervision while being under 25
Back in 1976, when I passed my bike test, the only 'L' restriction was a max of 250cc. I'm now 73 and a "Fair weather " rider. I've sold my sport tourer and muscle bike, as the speed restrictions and cameras in and around London make them a licence killer. I kept my Z1200 Tenere, still powerful but more user-friendly (easier on the back)
Yeah I had a small incident with my rx8 that had to be claimed on, my insurance 4x'd for its renewal to ~£1.5k and I'm not even young driver really anymore at 24. cost of driving is mental.
An excellent topic! My addition to your piece is... 1. Both hybrid and fully electric vehicles are CVT/automatic transmission. Therefore, in the years to come we will potentially see far more people learning to drive and ride EV's only taking an automatic license. With hybrid and EV still costing a far higher premium to get into than IC vehicles, potentially the manual test will be considered the poor persons test?! However, those with a manual license will get to drive both (including the classic car offerings - cheaper insurance etc); unlike those limited to their automatic licenses. 2. As a motorcyclist and car driver, I learnt far more from a "Bike Safe" course following passing my bike test than I did whilst gaining my direct access bike licence. There is currently no opportunity for car drivers to do a similar (inexpensive) course following passing their test. The driving test should be seen as merely the first stepping stone on a motorists education. Ie adequate. Further training in a tier format should be available (but not mandatory), and insurance companies should also recognise the tier structure. The current advanced licence is not fit for purpose (rip off)! As the small discount one gets on an insurance premium cost, actually is spent each year on the membership. 3. Young, middle aged, or old, it should make no difference in terms of "experience". I know many people who had no previous motorcycle experience and did a one week direct access bike test course and then shortly thereafter had a serious accident crashing their high performance motorcycle due to their inexperience and incompetence. Age doesn't cover inexperience! So a two year probation for "any" new driver/rider, together with a performance limitation, would be a positive start.
The worst thing about how the British organize insurance is that you HAVE TO insure the car with a specific driver. So you can not just borrow a car from someone. I don/t know any other country that do this, as in other countries anyone can drive any car as long as you have the driving licence. It's very annoying as sometimes it would be very useful to borrow a car from someone but always the same problem; you are not insured..
@@cujotwentysix7519 Yes it's very annoying. I understand the reasoning behind it, but my God the problems that this creates are HUGE. Funny thing is that British people are so used to it they don't complain about it, I guess it's a combination of "I don't have to get questions bout borrowing the car" and the fact that they don't know better, because they have never actually experienced how much better it is to be able to borrow a car from a friend or family member when you need to...!
To be fair, theres also advantages, such as its you who are insured, not the vehicle which can lead to lower prices if you got multiple vehicles. For me, I would therefore switch to the uk model in a heartbeat.
I think as long as both the owner of the car and the person borrowing it have their own insurance then it's fine to drive it legally, but it's usually only covered for 3rd party.
@@GoldenCroc Well that's not true, I can only drive two cars in the whole of the UK, as I am the named driver on ONLY those two, so no you are wrong, it's not the driver that is insured, it;s the NAMED driver on one PARTICULAR car. And I doubt very much that this reduce prices at all. I have insurance on a motorbike in Norway that I used when I am there, the insurance is cheap compared to the UK. It's a bad useless system that is bad for everyone.
As a motorcyclist, the motorcycle test also have many flaws (at least here in Spain, which should be similar to UK): - There is nothing forcing you to actually ride a bike before getting your full motorcycle license, so you can get you A1, never drive anything with two wheels, get your A2, never drive anything, and then, with 0 real miles, take your "A" course and go a buy a S1000RR....... - Yes, an A2 license is restricted to 35KW, but there is no restriction whatsoever regarding torque, so for the license a Ninja 400 (that is very low on torque) is the the same as a F900R or a Ducati Supersport both which have tons of torque, even restricted) - Similar to the previous one, there is no limitation on weight, so you could drive a 160KG 300CC bike, but you can also drive drive a +240KG bulky adventure bike with that same license, while the 300CC is very easy to ride, a heavy bike is not, especially in urban environments
I want to get a full manual licence but I have noticed pretty much all of the instructors near me seem to have recently all got hybrid or electric cars and I would rather own something older and easier to maintain. I have just relied on public transport before but now I only have a bus service that is timetabled to be every 20 minutes (cut back from 10 minutes to reduce pollution) but I often end up waiting over an hour (2 hours 15 minutes is my current record), so I am now spending more money on Taxis than before.
A few years ago I was in the US. For various reasons I wanted a US drivers licence, so rang the local office on Monday, was given an appointment for Tuesday PM. I went, had an eye test, a theory test and a practical test there and then, and left with a proper, plastic photocard licence, for the princely sum of $35. That is where any change needs to start. The simple cost, complexity and time involved with DVLA. Using the motorcycle formula for electric cars will not work. They use power/weight ration, where with electric vehicles what makes them pokey is the lack of a torque curve, so torque/weight would have to be used. What would work, is to equip vehicles with a card reader, similar to a tachograph, and use that to control ECUs to limit acceleration rates, speeds etc. There is one thing I find to be quite a factor in novice drivers and collisions. Their switch from the FWD hatch to their first BMW. They will more than likely end up pointing the wrong way on roundabouts.
You make a good point about electric cars. I witnessed a tesla reversing from their driveway yesterday, was very odd. They couldn't control it, it shot out rapidly. I don't know why they haven't restricted the acceleration, but I have an idea: these early EVs are allowed to be fast to encourage take up from people who otherwise wouldn't be interested. When it's time, the government will legislate against it, and everyone will have their EV detuned. Probably sinple enough to do. All new cars by law have speed limiter and tracking tech now, so I don't know why anyone would buy one, but I suspect they will reduce the specs of them soon. At first people won't protest, but then they'll take it too far. The slippery slope is real, not a fallacy. They've gone crazy with 20mph limits, banning cars from places (even EVs), and they're not gonna stop until they have total control. TLDR: don't give them ideas, and excuses to impose more control
People still think a social credit system (carbon credits) is a conspiracy theory. Fact is the powers that be want us moving around less and have planned a much lower standard of living for us (not them of course)
@F u Johnson it's no theory, they're quite open about what they're trying to do, just that most people are either ignorant or in denial. Always worth pushing back against things though.
After I flew the UK coop again in 2003, and when I breached 70 years, my UK driving licence was automatically revoked as I couldn't provide a UK address. Bit inconvenient renting a car on the rare occasions I visited, but it discouraged UK visits which was a plus with respect to rip-off UK. Then I realised I no longer have access to the NHS and also my National Insurance (State Pension) was frozen, namely no increases for you sunshine. I'm starting top wonder if I'm still British. Blessing in disguise or what! Jack, the Japan Alps Brit
When I took my driving test (a long time ago) I was very confident I could pass, unless I had a really bad day. But I didn't think I was ready to be let loose on the road by myself. I had never driven in the wet, had hardly driven at night, and had never gone over 70 km/h, the L plate limit. I passed easily enough, and survived driving on my own as much due to luck as good management.
In Australia they have a somewhat complicated system for getting your car license First you must pass a knowledge test to get your learner license (you can drive but must have someone next to you) After a year of having your l’s you can do a hazard perception test Then if you have completed the required hours and pass the practical test you get your red p’s which allows you to drive by yourself. In NSW there are restrictions on what can be driven on your p’s e.g the car must have a power to weight ratio of under 130kw/t and have a 0 to 60 time of no less than 6 seconds. This is good however in other states such as Western Australia there are no such restrictions.
Great video. I've been looking into how and why speed limits are being reduced here in NZ, despite the vastly safer vehicles that are available, chasing a dream called 'Road to Zero'. This singular focus on speed limits completely ignores the only thing that actually makes a difference - the driver. And hence very thing you are talking about - hands on driver training, instead of handing out bits of plastic and saying 'good luck, learn on the job and hopefully you don't kill anyone or yourself'
The thing with electric cars being too quick is that all it takes to turn them down is some software and a volume knob, but that volume knob - if it has one at all - is buried in some touchscreen menus. Didn't Italy used to have some kind of step-up system with new drivers?
When I did my bike test I rode around a housing estate while the examiner observed my riding. We did an emergency stop and then a few highway code questions and I was free to swap my MZ125 for a 750 Suzuki. Those were the days! On EV's it should be easy enough to limit the power of the car in software for newly qualified drivers. In fact it could be linked to the car remote fob so if the car was driven by more experienced drivers then they would have their own fob. Each fob would indicate if it is a full power or restricted version so when plod pull you they can check this against your license.
Insurance is pretty cheap here if you aren't young or dangerous or live in a high crime area (knew someone whos annual cost was about £6k on a Fiat 500, and she used public transport to get to work). I pay around £200 per year, yes, my car is low powered, but even something high powered and fairly valuable wouldn't likely top £1k. If I added a new driver, that alone would add a grand or so on any car. Oh, and because I have insurance in my name, I can drive any other car third party.
@@imnotamechanic3491 I’m 24 and pay like £65 a month for a Mini John Cooper Works, I think that’s pretty cheap tbh, I looked at m140i’s and it was gonna cost like £120 a month which is a bit steep
In 24. Since I passed my test I've had a 75hp ford fiesta and a 95hp Dacia Sandero with a turbo. Both had more than enough power for everyday driving and both are comfortable on the motorway. Any more power will simply lead to burning more fuel in most cases. I'm happy that I have a car that comfortably seats four people, has a big boot, gets out of its own way and does 42mpg around town and 46 on long journeys. Maybe when I'm older and I have more money and driving experience I might look at something a bit more pokey but I'm happy. I don't want to have to pay through the nose on insurance to run a fiesta st or BMW 1 series like some people my age do.
After having my first car for about 8 or 9 months, I upgraded to something with the best part of 2.5 times the power. It was a car I'd always wanted, but the jump up in performance really caught me by surprise, even for something that isn't all that fast compared with modern vehicles. I certainly wasn't the best driver when I started, which was about three years after getting my license, and I'm glad I didn't jump straight in and get a fast car right from the start. It's rather cliche, but you do have to respect a car's power. A bit more power makes driving easier in some places, but you do have to be careful.
I’m surprised to hear you only passed you car test in 2016. Interesting vid thanks. My licence dates back to 1989 when I was 17, which means I can drive loads of things my kids who passed in the last couple of years can’t, so adding bhp restrictions doesn’t seem much of a leap.
When I first passed (over 10 years ago) I was quoted £9700 for a Daewoo Matiz. When I asked as to why, apparently the area I used to live in was THE worst vehicle crime area in the UK (inner city Birmingham) needless to say many of my friends resorted to driving without insurance for the next 4-5 years. Not saying it was right to do but they needed the cars for University and work. I was fortunate enough to land a job at a car rental company which gave me a company car 🤷♂️ 10 years later we now all have good jobs, cheap insurance and im paying £600 a year for a Focus ST3 🤷♂️ its a hard life for young drivers who dont really have a choice as to what area they live in!
Great idea. The only way it will work is if the exchequer gets a slice! I’m 66 and a former professional driver, but I think anyone over 60 should have regular driving tests as even though I’m fit and healthy my driving ability is way less than when I drove for a living, (but still far better than many I witness on the public highway!)😂
There's used to be a much easier way to get a full bike license. Move to Japan. Sit their test for 0-400CC motorbikes. Get the Japanese bike license. Then, move to the UK, exchange your Japanese license for a UK license (no test needed, you just swap it), and you'd get a full bike license in return. Your license has a little "j" after the "A", saying from where it originated. Reason? The bike categories were not the same in the two countries (we were 125 and upwards?), and the Japanese license got rounded up. I suspect now it'd translated into an A2. Outside of Europe, there's remarkably few countries whose driving licenses are directly exchangeable for UK licenses.
I began riding a motorcycle on a cbt and then DAS many years later. And then a car licence many years later. And then a bus driver. All without any incidents accidents thanks to my previous experience starting out on a motorcycle.
Speaking from the experience of someone who went the bike route first: I think the Cat B (though mainly the driving lessons before then) are pivotal in understanding the road at all. I passed my CBT first time round. I promptly crashed it because I could interpret road markings (give way sign was obscured by a tree, which didn't help either).
About every 2-3 years my mother, who is 63 now, and has been driving for 18 years, spins out somewhere during the winter. She says i'm too agressive a driver, but do i spin out? I don't, and that's considering that i sometimes give it a bit of an angle. Her excursions have thankfully never led to any consequence, but i don't think spinning out really exists, losing control does, and it's not about age, it's about involvement in what you're doing, so some kind of a watershed for someone to get into a fast car is required, which would make it a deliberate effort, be it skidpad lessons or some other type of qualification proof, given that you can get yourself into trouble in a 130 hp kia if you don't know what you're doing.
Here in VicDanistan, formerly part of the Commonwealth of Australia, we have a power to weight restriction for probationary drivers... both for cars and motorcycles. When I got my licences in 2005, I had a 1978 XC GXL Fairmont with a factory 302 and that was fine while it was factory. Then I did some pretty tasty mods to it and it definitely wasn't legal, but I was moving to Western Australia, where there were no restrictions and used to get around in that with a 383 stroker engine swapped into it. The thing was a beast, still is a beast, the bloke I sold it to still has it and it still runs the same engine, only needed a minor freshen up last year. Not bad for a bunch of kids (with a bit of help from dad) barely out of high school bolting it together. Anyway, I used to get harassed on the east coast in it. In Western Australia, the cops just used to pull me over to have a look at the car, they were always cool. Buuuuut it must be said, that was NOT a car for a young driver and scared me stiff on too many occasions to mention. As much as young me hated the laws, dad of a 15 year old now is 100% behind them. How old I feel
Really interesting video as usual. In Northern Ireland we have a system where for the first one year after passing your test you must display "R" plates similar in size to the traditional "L" plates. During that time you can still drive any car but are restricted to 45 mph. I think we were supposed to be a trial for the whole UK but doesn't seem to have been adopted anywhere else.
Archaic. That used to be a thing in several other European countries. Before I got my license it was the case in my country too, but it was removed as it was just a catalyst for lots of problems and solved basically nothing. People just targeted those with the "new driver symbols", they were blocking others unnecessarily with the speed limit, especially heavy trucks. And the speed limit does absolutely nothing positive for anyone's safety in reality. Why would a symbol like that help out in traffic anyway? People "watch out" for them or something? That's what all drivers are supposed to do to every other driver anyway!
totally correct. staged licences based on power output has a long track record on two wheels; it would be straightforward to introduce it on 4 wheels; EVs don't even need ECU changes, just software/app modes Living in a rural area it is scary how fast new cars are; particularly for non-vehicular road users
“Shortbread” 🤣🤣🤣. As a petrolhead who is married to an ardent biker, I wholeheartedly agree with what you’ve said. I believe Northern Ireland already operates a restricted car licence for the first 12 months of driving which could be rolled out across Britain. I also feel it would make drivers far more aware if they had to complete a CBT on a motorcycle or trike, even if they had no intention of ever riding. I have an A2 licence holding friend who has a restricted 500 bike but drives an articulated car transporter for a living which seems crazy! Surely EV’s could read the drivers licence number electronically and run a restricted map for inexperienced drivers with only a small number of software tweaks.
If I had the power that I now have, 315hp, when I passed my test in '92 then I would have probably ended up as a greasy spot on the asphalt . A graduated license is really the most logical step to take. Upto 21 year's old limit engine power to 100hp. Then have a weapon 3 year probationary period of, say 200hp, then at 24, by which time driver's could have 7 experience behind the wheel, allow them to drive any category b vehicle. Like you said, everyone should benefit.
Where I am in Australia, when you turn 16, you have your learner's permit (It's just a theory-based test) which you keep for two years, which you have to log down each time you drive to get a minimum of 120 hours, plus some nighttime and rough weather. Once you're 18, you have a two stage probationary period of two years each, limited to a car that's roughly 170hp per tonne. If you're 21 or older when you start still need your learners permit, but you do not need to log hours driven, you could get your learners one week, get your licence the next if you like, once you do get your license you go straight to the second probation which you have for three years, then you have a full license. In other states, you can drive what you want on your probationary license, but you're limited to 100 km/h. They've been cutting down the time of the driving portion of the license test when you go for it (they already reduced it a few years ago), I only had to do a thirty-minute drive made up of three stages, in the last two had optional things the instructor could get you to do, one was either parallel park or do a three point turn, none of it was freeway driving or back roads (back roads aren't close to the test centre, but still), I could drive on the freeway on my learners, however. I did plenty of non-logged hours (being over 21), but after going through it myself, I could see how you could pass it with minimal on the road hours and several driving lessons. All honesty, people still drive like shit, hahaha. Oh, and for the old people, I think at the very least they need to go for a theory test and another test to check their brain is still with it and able to concentrate, at an extreme a driving test, my grandfather who's over 80 could have renewed his license for ten years if he wanted too.
@@Low760 I agree that's an issue with it, you can only learn from the people around you, and if they're shit, you're going to be shit and not know how to drive correctly, also the issue of your parents/whoever takes you driving not being up-to-date with the road rules, I did a driving course for new learners which included a class on road rules for parents (among other stuff), from what I was told, nobody knew the new rules.
Equally, perhaps vehicle size could be restricted in the same way. In London, there are far too many people driving huge SUVs who can’t cope with their size.
I FULLY AGREE >>> Cars vs Motorbikes, 17 year olds and the ridiculousness of the car tests, training AND LACK OF RESTRICTIONS... Since being a fully qualified ROSPA/DSA Motorcycle Training Instructor MANY years a go, I have seen Motorcycle licencing change time and time again to become MUCH MORE STRINGENT, but car driving NOT SO MUCH. With bikes... - You HAVE to undergo a CBT (Compulsory Basic Training), where you spend a few hours being educated about the safety, the dangers, the clothing, the controls and then basic riding of MCs (starting, stopping, manoeuvres, figure of 8s etc, then taken out on road for demonstrating you have sufficient basic riding/road/traffic skills). IF you show it, THEN, THIS ONLY gets you up to 2 years riding (which allows you to undergo the next step, or at 2 years, redo your CBT to continue riding), on a MAXIMUM 125cc with approx MAXIMUM 14 BHP, NO pillion/passengers and NO motorways WITH 'L' plates. THEN you can (age dependent) either: Take the next steps to get onto 'A' larger BUT STILL RESTRICTED BHP bike (like say an OFFICIALLY restricted 600/650cc bike) OR At age of 24 'Direct Access' that'll get you onto whatever bigger/unrestricted bikes you want/can afford. (Without getting into it all, it IS stepped, controlled and HELPS Motorcyclists BE BETTER/SAFER RIDERS). Cars? Yeah.... 😒, there is NOTHING 'Really' stopping a 17 year old, passing their Theory, then their Practical, and then... Jumping into a Civic Type R, Hyundai Type N, BMW, Audi, Merc, Skoda VRS or such like, and 'Tear arseing around' with 3 or 4 of their mates on board in what is a FAST SOLID LUMP OF STEEL at 120/130/140 MPH CAPABLE speeds and doing STUPID manoeuvres/overtakes/speeding... IT S H O U L D B E THE SAME AS THE MOTORCYCLE STEPPED SYSTEM. In that, FROM the ages of 17 THROUGH TO say 19, THEY MUST BE RESTRICTED IN CC AND/OR POWER of cars. AND THEN MAYBE AFTER 2 (or even 3) FULL YEARS of driving can they maybe take a SECOND tier to gain access to bigger CC/More powerful cars. A modern 1 Litre (VW UP/Citygo/Mii etc), or even say a Fiat Grande Punto 1.2, Fiesta 1.2/1.3 or that kind of CC/Power... IS EASILY ENOUGH TO GET OVER THE SPEED LIMIT!!! And EEEEEASILY ENOUGH power for a 17, 18, 19 year old... 125cc bikes CAN hit 75/80, my Punto 1.2 8v CAN do 90+ SO, WHY ALLOW a 17-21 year old access to a car that CAN do 0-60 in
Shocked!! When started riding at 17 just brought a Suzuki 250 put "L" plates no lessons taught myself put in for a bike test passed and brought a Suzuki GS750 happy days, that was all you had to do by law. Must admit if I had to go through that to-day probably wouldn't bother, may-be that's the idea.. Great Video
I agree although I don't see the link between learning to drive a manual gearbox and driving an extremely fast car. I actually don't think young drivers need to learn how to drive a manual unless they have an interest in vintage cars. 90+% of new cars are automatic/dual clutch and electric cars are very unlikely to ever be made as manual cars as the torque curve of electric motors doesn't require it. In fact, despite loving vintage manual cars and owning a few (all manuals), I have recommended most of my friends who are either in their mid twenties or have decided to get a licence in their 30s or even 40s (and now the children of my friends who had children very very young!) to not bother learning manual unless they want to own vintage cars. But most kids nowadays will get a banger until they can afford a new car on finance and "upgrade" every few years.
The manual test is a several week course and is far more in-depth. The automatic one is almost designed for tourists and uber drivers to easily get - kind of a joke by comparison.
@@plektosgaming in the UK? The tests are the same where I am from (live in the UK for decades) hence the only difference is that you don't have to deal with the shifter and clutch. Also don't you have the same number of mandatory training hours before taking the driving license test?
@@Photoandcargeek In theory, yes, but the actual time it takes the average new driver to learn manual as well as the rest of the driving skills is typically far longer as it's far more involved, even if the requirements are similar. That extra time it takes is time also reinforcing the basics and time with the instructor as well. Such as a hill start. Not a factor at all/zero brain cells with automatic, move to the next topic. Versus several days to get right/become second nature with manual. And this just compounds. When my son learned manual, it took him about two months to get moderately decent at just getting things working and not stalling in a stressful moment(all it had was ABS and zero other systems), but driving my dad's Audi, he was zooming around in a week as it was dong almost everything for him including practically keeping him in the correct lane and even warning him about his blind spots. In terms of difficulty, I have to know how the car works and what it's doing versus basically a fast video game on wheels. I can see a modern lorry driver getting a pass in a week (as he pointed out) as its doing most of the basics and lulling them into a false sense of security.
The other alternative which appeals to me is to model Aviation training. One has to pass certain competency and experience test to firstly get a restricted licence, then second to get a basic private licence. This restricts you to smaller, certain types of aircraft which I would equate to the smaller, less powerful cars. Then, as your experience goes, you can apply for ‘endorsements’ for other type of aircraft, including larger, more powerful and more complicated ones. To be able to fly a 787 or the like, or on the other end of the scale a military fighter jet you must go through rigorous training and regular reviews to make sure you are up to date and safe. I would equate the 787 to articulated lorries and semi trailers and the like, and military aircraft to high performance sports cars of any power train. I believe that would certainly help.
You basically described me at the beginning! I learned to drive in my partner’s car for about a month, never saw an instructor or went to driving school, then passed my test driving in the same car that I learned in (automatic) and then got a Tesla as a first car - it was too quick, ended up selling the Tesla and changed to an x3 which is much more civilised but now I understand how dangerous fast car really are, especially for people that aren’t experienced. Also most people are deranged and will get upset if you overtake them in a slower car, the amount of Teslas and Kia’s that won’t let me overtake them is just ridiculous so it’s obvious most people aren’t ready to drive these crazy quick cars and something should change. That’s my rant for the day
I totally understand what you are saying Jay. It also doesn't help that they are trying to make getting a car driving licence difficult if you are not good at theory tests and lack money. I keep failing my theory test even though I was so close to passing. For some reason hazard perception is not my problem, it's multiple choice and I haven't been behind the wheel in a few years now and I'm in my mid 20s. Hopefully I will get my full license and drive but another problem I am suffering is that I live in London and London is no good for cars. Anyway your videos are great, keep up the good work.
I grew up on a farm....my driving lessons were on tractors and combine harvesters and articulated vehicles....all that before I was a teenager....later on I got my driving licence... so easy in a car....single clutch, power steering, seat belts, interior lights, horn button on steering wheel, pockets for drinks, power windows, power comfort, heated seats, heated cabin.... I could go on...bring back my old skool where you had to work to drive!
When I was offered a company car many years ago, to qualify (so company insurance was reduced) my company sent you on a defensive driving course, 2 trainees and an instructor, about 6 hours in a car taking turns driving and discussing how bad we both were 😂 but it was well worth it, and at the end when we were tested for about 45 mins of driving each, with no instruction, just follow signs to x, and about 10mins of that involved describing the road, potential hazards, what was behind, and why we were doing what we were doing, we both felt it was well worth the time, and I went on to do a couple more lessons (but I didn’t do the full IAM). I felt then, and still now, that everyone should do this training, it included a bit of motorway driving too.
In Sweden, you can start practice driving a car when you are 16 years old with a driver's license permit, at 17 years and 6 months you can start practice driving to get a car driver's license, but you cannot drive until you are 18 years old. With a B driving license you can drive passenger cars and light trucks up to 3500 kilos. As an 18-year-old, you can even drive a supercar with 1,000 horsepower. But car insurance is very expensive for young people between 18-30 years of age, then there is a price difference on the insurance for men and women, as women have lower costs for car insurance. Several studies over the years have shown that men are more often involved in traffic accidents than women, more men than women drive too fast and get fined, the same thing applies to a suspended driver's license for driving too fast, is much more common among men than women in Sweden.
I have passed my test when I was 22 (money was tight when i was 17-18 and later i was more focused on my studies), i got my first car about a month and a half later, a 2009 Mazda 2 GTA with a peppy 1.5 engine and a shortly geared manual gearbox, after 2 years of driving i still dont find i reached the potential of this little car with 103hp. I have been feeling similarly with you and i'd set similar limits, a basic licence for grocery getters and small roadsters that most people can get, if anybody has money for a Golf GTI or Focus ST/RS they probably have some more to do a bit of training. Another thing i'm worried about is the increasing weight of cars, slightly fancier saloons are easily around the two ton mark and there are SUVs too driven by distracted people which is also dangerous.
In most Australian states, P platers (those who have passed a driving test but are not yet fully licensed) are limited to a 130kW/tonne power to weight ratio. Personally, I think it’s too high (around 100kW/tonne would be more appropriate) but it’s a decent idea. Before that, they were banned from all V8s, high performance sixes (there was a list), and forced induction vehicles.
I’ve got a horror story! I’m 21, full EU, Spanish manual and automatic license for nearly 3 years. No points, offenses or anything like that. I work with two automotive companies in the UK both of which I am on the insurance for and am often driving cars between 100k-200k. I wanted to get a 1989 Jeep Cherokee as my first car. They’re between £10-20k. I was quoted £22,000 for third party insurance by Adrian Flux. My yearly insurance can pay for another car!
One point I have to make is modern high-performance vehicles are very forgiving when compared to old-performance cars. Nowadays, the main issue of driving a performance car is judging when to brake. In the old days, it was completely different, try jumping into a muscle car and flooring it, most drivers of today would just spin off the road and crash.
I’ve been trying to learn to drive since I was 17, I’m now 22. I have difficulty learning new things sometimes and with the prohibitive cost of lessons and a lack of friends and family willing to teach me I’ve been in a sort of limbo for the past few years. I’d like to think I’d be on the road soon but I struggle with traditional style exams like the theory. I remember I went to do my theory and was severely put off by unfriendly staff at the test centre. It’s frustrating that I’m having all these challenges because I really want to get out and have a bit of freedom and enjoy myself
It's hard. I have dyspraxia so it took me five years to learn to drive. I did have some pretty poor instructors initially which didn't help but got there in the end. The cost is challenging these days though so I totally understand why so many people likely can't afford it. I wouldn't be able to.
First off, Top quality video bringing up a topic that needs addressing. Just a small correction, if you are old enough for a full A bike license ( 21 and up ) you don't have to stage it over all of those 2 year periods. I did my A2 license at 17 with my dad (52) since he was old enough he could go from CBT straight to a full unlimited license. since I got my bike license two years before my car license i had a totally different perspective on driving and felt like i had a distinct advantage in road awareness. I passed my test during Covid in a town i didn't know first try with no lessons, i put A LOT of that down to my motorcycle instructors. The teaching and nuggets of life saving information like positioning, distance judging, braking and car body language are essential and should definitely be part of the car test/teaching. Also in the bike test as mentioned in the video is the "cones test" basically a handling test. this needs to be a thing in a car test. watching people drive its clear that very few drivers know what to do on slippy surfaces, fast twisty roads, swerve situations, and also direct hazard avoidance whilst also not causing an accident yourself. all of which is taught ( drilled in ) in bike training.
In my experience of driving, 11 years as a bus driver, a bit of delivery driving before that, 4 years taxi driving and plenty of years driving my car I can honestly say the worst road users are: 1, cyclists. 2,foreigners. 3, elderly (straight across roundabouts with no lane discipline). 4, women (no clue of their surroundings and drive ‘in the moment’. 5, youths (checking social media in a cloud of vape). Oh the storm of abuse I open myself to but…. Just saying 😉
The solution for mentioned elderly is simple, but not quite present just yet - self-driving cars. Although I don't know if it ever comes to England as most of our roads are from the 19th century.
I'm a driving instructor and I agree with everything you have to say on it. I also though think it should be compulsory to do a mandatory re sit if tests every 10 year until 65 and then it's every 5 years
@@fortheloveofnoise same if someone does something dangerous then yes take their licence away but there’s no way I’m doing a test again, gives me ptsd just thinking about it, been driving almost 6 years now
As a pupil at a good grammar school we lost one or more members of the fifth or sixth forms (years 11 to 13 now.) to a motorcycle accident every year. The motorcycle park end of the school, was packed with motor cycles. One particularly cool member of staff joined them on his Honda 750 four. Later in the 90s I returned to the school to teach and all the sixth form had progressed to cars, there were no motorbikes, there was only one death due to a car crash that I can remember from that time and that may have been caused by a component malfunction though speed was a factor. You are right about electric cars and the need for perhaps a performance limit on young drivers. At the moment that function is carried out by the insurance companies essentially pricing young drivers out of the performance market. But he cars I learnt on had about 50bhp per Litre, that's 65bhp or so for my Marina 1.3, now a Peugeot 107 has 70 bhp and is regarded as an entry level car. I knew myself only too well and only bought a sports car when I was convinced the silliness of youth had worn off.
I think though that I disagree with your assessment of the HGV licence, yes you can get an HGV licence in a quicker easier time than a motorbike licence, but the motivation for doing so is very different, no one gets an HGV licence for fun, days out in the Derbyshire dales, do they? An HGV licence is for work, to make a living, so the mindset of someone applying for an HGV licence is completely different to that of a lte teen applying for a motorcycle licence.
Interesting idea. Because I am ancient when I passed my bike test, you could ride anything up to 250cc, fitted with L plates, back them there was some fairly quick bikes. The electric car licence issue may need looking at. Last week a friend road tested a new Nissan Leaf EV, even with 4 adults on board it was surprisingly quick, actually a decent car. The driver has driven very little for a few years, (and it showed!) in a few days she will be let loose in a busy area, on her own in what 5 years ago would have been a quick car. Warning old people are coming after you!
Torquay the epicenter for the olds having car accidents. Also The Avenue in Lower Sunbury. Car parking is facing the shops.The count is now 3 cars parked half into shops. Last one was a ladies hairdressers. 3 customer and staff hurt. Btw I have AM N430 vantage.
As a young driver who is completing the basic IAM advanced driving course, the amount you learn in the standard cat b test is ridiculous. I had never driven on a motorway until after I had passed. This is the same for a standard back road. I had had no training on how to make safe progress on a fast road, even down to planning overtakes, acceleration sense, 3 stage braking and even basic positioning. The amount I have learnt from the advanced course has drastically changed my driving style and the way I deal with hazards on the road. I would highly recommend this course to anyone, inexperienced or not.
Recently passed too and while I was learning my dad taught me a lot of the practices from these courses seeing as he took a few advanced driving courses and the BMW motorcycle experience (probably not the correct name) and I agree, it’s incredible the amount you’re not taught in standard lessons
There is a very cliche saying of "you pass the test then you learn to drive" and there is a lot of truth in it
Yes, I suspected that this was part of the problem.
Its the quality of training given in the standard UK license process that has greatly declined (in my area anyway). I took my lessons and test 22 years ago and the IAM license a few years after and the basic manoeuvring and judgements that my first instructor taught me, were the same as the ones the IAM taught. I must of had a hell of an instructor.
Fast forward 18 years and the horror stories I heard of what my eldest was being taught and the fact she failed her first 2 practical's, made me teach her instead.
E.g, daughter was taught to fully stop at a roundabout if another car was present at any of the other giveway lines.
After I showed her the correct way to drive she passed, with 1 minor for clutch control. She had an emergency stop situation during her test and was commended by the assessor for "perfect process and beating him to the pedals".
@@andytomlinson415 I have a mate who passed in the recent months. I was watching him reverse into a parking space. He was moving very slowly so I asked if he was using the gas pedal. At this point he told me "I didn't know you could do that"
I like many others think that there should be motorway training available after you pass the driving test.
After all, most peoples driving includes motorways.
Not related to the topic but these videos are a great distraction from some struggles I’ve been going through lately. I’m genuinely really grateful.
Hope you are ok pal. Stay strong.
I know what you mean. Very good to listen to Jay and enjoy his car of the day.
Same, just turned 28 but am in medical debt (American) so I had to sell my car and have been doing without for months.....so I have been walking, sometimes 10-15 mikes a day....with my health problems...but it is what it is....on top of all the, the doctors can't figure out what is wrong with me
Hang in there Ryan. You are important and you do matter. 👍
@@fortheloveofnoise I hope luck finds you and you escape your current situation. Stay safe.
Heard a story here in Ireland of a first time driver getting a Renault Zoe and being quoted €7000 to insure it and being told it was because of the performance of the car. If that trend keeps up there won’t be any new drivers. Insurance companies really need to kop on
lmao the renault zoes top speed isnt even 90mph thats absolutely ridiculous
Insurance groups are still a thing then, Zoe 14 - 22 while a VW Up is group 1
I think most of us will remember looking through things like parkers guide and making sure our first cars weren't too expensive . . . .
@@JungleJeffarnold Nope I looked at the all important 0-60 times, I found insurance groups are just a rough guide and are irrelevant to the price.
@@user-ue6iv2rd1n I wasn't rich so had to look at insurance and mpg 😂
What insurance costs, certainly in GB, is based on more than just the performance of the car. But young, novice, drivers are always going to be a greater risk than those who have proven themselves to be 'safe'.
As someone who started driving a few months ago, another thing people seem not to consider is the wait for tests. I failed my first time and was on a year waiting list for a retest. It’s such a pain, and so discouraging for people wanting to drive
We used to think 6 weeks was a long wait for a retest. (1980's)
@@wayland7150 currently it's 3 weeks, but it's trying to book the test I passed in 2017 and had hundreds of tests available, these days you're lucky to find one in the same year.
Year?? Youll f9rget everything by that time
Really good point. I’ve been driving for over 40 years having passed my test just before age 18. I’ve had all sorts of car types up to 500 bhp “monsters” and as you pointed out started in a normally aspirated 1300 cc car. The volume of traffic has changed radically in that time. The amount of room / decision time on motorways and A roads in persist heavy traffic has also conferred a much higher level of competency and ability than that we needed all that time ago. Further - and based on my Wife’s recent change of car from an SUV to a relatively powerful EV. The skill set needed to control such a vehicle ( 240 bhp immediately available thru rear wheels ) is radically different to a ‘normal’ car. The set up is completely different, braking different, cornering difficult and can be a real issue to drive in Snow or Icy conditions. I don’t like driving it if it’s the future of motoring experience. The lack of need to control gears etc., and relatively noise free environment ( you can’t sub - consciously ‘hear’ the engine and what it’s doing ) are issues. As an “Oldie” I think I can navigate this change but am more than aware if you don’t drive relatively defensive in some of these cars you will end up in a heap of problems quickly. And I believe there’s still no Motorway driving module as part of the current driving test. That’s simply ridiculous in this day and age.
yeah, in the old days you could basically get a test every 2 weeks. So you could take like 50 tests in the 2 years it takes your theory to expire! Now you only get about 2 tests before you have to pay and do the theory all over again! (and hopefully pass) before you try to find another practical test available!! Madness
You know as a motorcyclist, I have thought for decades that all potential drivers should have to take a cbt. So they will understand the dangers and vulnerability of the road.
As for new riders, about two months before the motorcycle law changed which was January 20th 2013. I taught my son to ride and he took his full bike test at 17 and had to ride a restricted bike for 2 years. But once he was 18 or 19 he was riding legally superbikes including a hayabusa. Mad I know, but that's how it was before 2013.
I did my motorcycle driving test before any stepped requirements and had a full license at 18. I, nor any of my friends had any issues with riding unrestricted bikes. I think it's an exaggerated issue overall, it really is an incredibly small percentage who are problem-cases and even they tend to injure only themselves.
Actually I think the stepped license system helps older riders most: it keeps a large amount off of bikes altogether as their egos can't stand riding a smaller bike or any waiting, restrictions, anything. And for the small amount who do get into motorcycling at a later stage in life they have far less ability to learn than young people. They are the ones with most trouble handling the bikes, learning the techniques.
When I was looking to buy a Harley the old guy testing the bike before me never came back, he got a ride directly to the hospital and the bike came back on a recovery truck. And I read safety statistics and industry news, and at least at that time the statistics showed the biggest number of motorcycle accidents for people 40+. Even though that of course is partially due to them being able to afford riding more at that age group, that still shows us which group has the most accidents.
A certain group of young people are going to mess up no matter what, and piling on costs and unnecessary restrictions on the responsible people is unfair.
As a motorcyclist I heard that a lot in forums but simply put some people maybe a lot of people simply cannot ride a bike. Hopefully the hazard awareness part has been added that should help with that. I also noticed it mentioned in the speed awareness course.
Before CBT you could pass your test on a 50cc FS1E and get a Z1 and pretend you're in Mad Max.
@@wayland7150 No you couldn't.
But before the law change those mad bikes were unaffordable to most riders. The industry self regulated that.
I’m at university and the amount of people you talk to who aren’t bothering getting a licence because it’s too expensive/not required is surprising, it’s just not appealing to a lot of people which is a shame and insurance really kills it for a lot of people
Yeah and I do worry this really limits options for people in terms of work and life etc
@@JayEmmOnCars it definitely does, what makes it worse is the parking situation because even if young people can afford a car very few have a place to park it or can afford to, at my accommodation there is only 10 car parks for 250 people and it costs £400 a year to get one
They will have their lives of sitting at home and eating bugs, and getting their thrills from pharmaceutical substances or whatever the leftists want criminal gangs pouring over the border (at this point I'm sure that the political parties are being funded by criminal smuggling gangs, both in the UK and especially in the US!).
Also the uni lecturers telling them the world is about to end and by driving they are killing it doesn’t inspire hope.
@@Lewis2710 i think that is just the case in urban areas now, so many low emission zones are popping up.. It's just becoming a fact of life that if you want to live near a city then you might need to take public transport..
I'm a HGV1 driver and think that there SHOULD be a second part to the test. And that AFTER passing a test for A and B roads you will have to pass a Motorway test before you are allowed on to a Motorway. I encounter people everyday entering the Motorway system at speeds from 20 mph upto 40 mph, lane hogging at slow speeds, driving to close to the car in front, phone in hands whilst driving, I spotted a bloke today eating his cereal from a bowl at 50 mph!!
I was taught to value C.O.A.S.T . . . . Consideration, Observation, Anticipation, Space and Time. There needs to be a radical rethink in teaching driving values.
For an American listening to the requirements it's amazing. In California, it's an add on to your regular license. You're given a learners permit to drive the bike of your choice and then the practical test. End of story.
This may be unpopular, but I've been watching Clarkson's Farm. The level of rules and regulations amazes me. Especially for a farm. I've been to the Cotswolds and yes it's beautiful. But after spending two weeks in Provence last year it's clear that French regulations are a lot less restrictive.
I’m a relatively new driver, I had one lesson on a proper motorway (3 lane and a hard shoulder). A few weeks after I passed my test I took my little XC70 up to Liverpool, 150 mile trip, and the smart motorways are terrifying. I was stressed out about the bunch of different speed cameras, the matrix boards showing inconsistent signs and the amount of drivers who don’t have lane discipline. I had to venture out into the outside lane getting bullied by German cars that wanted to go faster than 70. I was more focused on my speed than looking at the road. I think if they go ahead with “upgrading” the motorways then a part of the tests should take place on a “smart” motorway so new drivers are confident on them. My drivers test was in Chippenham and I barley went on a duel carriageway, 95% of my test was on town driving.
To summarise I believe at least 3 hours should be spent on duel carriageway and motorway driving to help new drivers get more experience on driving on fast expressways. In addition knowledge should be passed on about braking distance for HGVs and lane disciple, also what to do in the event of a breakdown on a “smart” so everyone can benefit from a much better standard of driving.
I used to think that too, but I disagree with you after thinking about it for a year or so. I think motorways are for confident drivers, you do a town drive first, then a 50 and a A road and then with enough experience off you go on the motorway. Experience is a key. When you first pass a test you are an inexperience driver. It's jour job to build your skills, some time passes you get better bla bla bla.
Damage control you know? 3,4 lanes, 70miles per hour and inexperienced learners.. just imagine the massacre.
That I think is a hazard to other road users and driving instructors. And yes, new drivers get on motorway and make mistakes, yes. But they had opportunity to build their skills first, they chose not to. You can get literally anywhere you like without getting on the motorway. It js not a must. You can just go and an A road, it will take 20 mins extra, but you are an inexperienced driver that 20 minutes if more time to gain experience. Motorways are not all that different from busy A roads, really.
And if you hoped on 150 miles trip straight after passing your test, had a bad time and blamed it on lack of Motorway experience or lack of learning that's wrong wrong. You chose to go on a motorway knowing you were lacking skills and confidence, do you get my point? 4 hours with instructor during lessons on motorway is not how you build experience its how you have an experience. It's how you crash and give yourself ptsd ;) do you get my point?
@@SiostraEmo i recently passed and motorways are so much easier than busy town driving. I had 0 motorway training and went on it first day driving my own car.
I agree. But there's lessons that can be done before your test if you insist you learn all driving roads.
XC70 with the T6 (304hk) engine is quit fast car
I passed my test on a Friday afternoon at 17 years old, and on the Saturday morning rocked up to Castle Coombe and spent the day on the skid pan. Best training I ever got, and has stayed with me for 35 years. Me and my mates were building and driving kit cars (primarily Westfields) at 17-18 years old, but there just seemed to be much more appreciation of what was under your right foot back then. I may be wrong, but it's a very different car culture for the youngsters these days, it seems. Most of us had full bike licenses at 17 too, when you just took a test on a 125 and could then ride anything. Sadly, I had a couple of mates in wheelchairs before their early 20s, so I do support the tiered licensing system, for both bikes and cars.
agree, we're gonna have a lot of people not used to the speed, I'm more worried about the older folk getting into electric.
I will miss the sound of 6000rpm being used to reverse out of a parking space 😂
This keeps coming up. If 'older folk' had more accidents they would be paying far higher insurance premiums. Insurers have the best accident database and charge young drivers the highest premiums based on driver age.
@@martinhoare9525 The accident profile is vastly different between younger and older people, as well as between women and men. Generally, older people have a lot more low speed accidents, as well as physically scraping against various objects. No points for guessing why or which type of accidents are more expensive.
Problem arises when you put 1000hp not just in the hand of young hoons, but people who over time lost the ability to separate the accelarator pedal from the brake....
@@martinhoare9525the amount of near misses that I’ve had because of an older driver is ridiculous, most of the time they aren’t even aware of what they did.
@@jamesrobert4106 ah yes nothing beats hearing a kia picanto at 6000 rpm surrounded in clutch smoke as its driver reverses out the driveway 🤣🤣
James, James, James. 33bhp on a bike is not "more than enough". Car drivers........ no idea just no idea.......
I totally agree with your thoughts on the high performance of electric cars.
The people who get them will probably only have driven small family hatchbacks, and are now driving a performance car.
The acceleration that an EV has can get you into a lot of trouble very quickly.
On the subject of elderly drivers, my father was driving a BMW Mini Cooper S in his 80’s, and he was a very good driver.
As I am approaching “elderly” status, and drive a Porsche, I have learnt through driving many performance cars, that you need to treat their power with respect.
The acceleration getting you out of trouble argument is a rather spurious. The essential knowledge required is to not get into the situation where it is required. One of the 'joys' of starting on a moped back in my youth was the knowledge that the slightest cock-up could be my last. You learn to ride defensively, read traffic and the road ahead and not take the risks that lead to needing to get out of trouble in the first place.
Making people start in the car equivalent would hopefully teach them the same skills.
Yes, think where you will need to slow down before you even press the accelerator.
Let them vet into trouble. Don't really see the issue. Let them reap the consequences.
I passed my test in May. I haven't started driving yet due to very high insurance costs on anything, second hand prices and lack of parking. I know when I do start I will need A lot of practice. Its a shame because after a lot of work beating my nerves, I really loved driving. My instructor wouldn't put me through until test as fails increase the likelihood that they will be retested, which is fair enough. Most people I know my age group (early 20s) do not have a license/want one due to aforementioned costs, test booking times, instructor availability etc. Huge shame we don't have as many 2nd handers as the US. Great video!
I am 20 years old living in London. Ive watched every single one of your videos and have spent WAY too much time browsing on auto trader (for no reason except entertainment) and reading about the most random cars on wikipedia. Yet even I have not bothered getting my license. Where I live it would cost me almost £4000 a year to get insured on an entry level corsa. £70 per 2 hour lesson and a 18 month waiting list to book your test + no such thing as parking in my area, and a much faster and cheaper tube within walking distance. Its a real shame especially coz most of my dream cars are not ulez compliant (106 rallye and various other early 2000's bmw's)
In Australia there are limits to the type of car you can buy including power, power/weight ratio, NA/turbo etc until you come off probationary at 22
As ever many valid points. Despite the way the media present older people, we're not all so old and doddery that we need tiny car with an auto box to drive to the local shop because our Zimmer frame won't take us that far. I'm in my seventies, I've always loved driving and enjoy the sort of roads you were on in the vid - great fun, even if I don't have the resources for the kind of machinery you drive. The old saying that there's a lot of fun driving a slow car fast is true.
There's another anomaly with licences. When you turn seventy they take away your minibus entitlement. This didn't bother me as I don't need it these days, but I'm still allowed to drive the very same vehicle so long as it doesn't have seating for so many passengers and it doesn't have windows in the sides. It's called a van! Crazy. The rear visibility for reversing is worse in a van, especially it it's a Luton body.
Another brilliant video mate, some excellent points! I've always wanted my bike licence, ridden loads of motocross when I was younger and been obsessed with MotoGP/Superbikes etc all my life, great that I now have the licence and partial brain power to access two wheels, albeit during the summer months 😉Cheers!
I would scrap all of the current system and just have a 2 stage process for both car and bike.
For bike, no matter your age you do a 2 day course with a multi choice theory test (a halfway house between CBT and the current full test), allowing you to ride a 125 forever with P plates but no motorways or pillion. After 2 years of continuous ownership you can re take the course on a 600cc+ remove the P plates (if you do it on an auto you are limited to auto).
For car, I would have a similar thing, you have to do it in a car with no more than 200bhp and no more than 150bhp/ton but instead of a 1hr test where you have to be perfect it would be 2 days with an instructor and at the end if they are happy you are not a danger to others than you get your license with P plates and no motorway use. after 2 years you can do the course again with a more powerful car (auto limits you to auto only).
In order to drive HGV you must have the full size car or bike license meaning you should already have 2 years experience and have had 4 full days training and passed 2 tests.
You come to Jay because of a breakdown and review of some exotic Italian sports car one day, you stay for these wonderful videos speaking his mind about the state of driving in the UK and how much you agree with his thoughts. Great piece here again!
Just marry the first category a new driver can have to the Japanese Kei car spec. Perfectly serviceable runabouts, with several manufacturers ready to meet demand with a large variety of models to fit all tastes in production. They even come with the steering wheel on the correct side.
As a 75+ year old with 60 years of driving experience behind me, most of it either on the roads you are on in this video or motorway driving. I would agree with you on the EV scenario not only for new drivers but also those of my age! I would not be against a fitness test for those over 70 with regards to perception and reaction times etc. Currently we have to renew our licence every three years from age 70 but there is virtually no restrictions, as you could be almost blind, deaf, or loosing your cognitive abilities, and still be allowed to drive! The one thing I would like to see being banned completely in cars are mobile phones, as they have been the cause of as many accidents as drink. I also think that any audio equipment should have a volume limit strictly imposed purely from a safety point of view. Drivers have to be able to hear other motorists & emergency vehicles!
Problem is young people today actually drive about with headphones on. Yes it is absolutely bonkers.
What's worse is infotainment systems in most new cars are as distracting and dangerous as mobile phones.
I don't know why my motorcycle licence is part of my driving licence, so if I get banned from cars it affects me on bikes too. It's not right. You do separate tests, they're complete separate skills, so why is it legally one thing. A pilots licence is separate isn't it. Just a thought I had.
It’s worse than that, did you know you could actually lose your license while riding a bicycle?
I know! Like if I get banned from driving a 44ton truck while at work I loose my car n bike n tracked vehicle licence. I think it's rather stupid tbh
If you are an irresponsible driver in a car what makes you not so on a bike? 🤔
@@theghost1920 but there’ll be some offences that’d be appropriate for all of your driving. For specific hgv offences makes less sense.
@@CGCTVExactly !
JayEmm at Glenshee! Gorgeous drive that - I'm from Aboyne just up the road so get to have a good spirited drive over the hills whenever I'm heading back home from University - always spend most of the drive looking forward to it. I agree wholeheartedly with what you say in the video regarding engine (or battery) restrictions for new drivers, and I'm really enjoying the discussion surrounding what is actually learned throughout the licensing process from other viewers. When I had my test I'd been learning to drive with my Dad who'd been driving for near on 50 years and the amount of 'advanced' techniques he taught me was all stuff I didn't realise was 'advanced' in the first place until I spoke to my mates who had also passed. I don't mean to say I'm an incredible driver by any means but I thought it was interesting how differently they viewed certain aspects of driving - making progress, planning overtakes, etc - but it makes sense when none of these things are factored into the DVLA curriculum. I have several friends who have never overtaken anyone outwith a dual carriageway/motorway because they think it's too dangerous!
I should imagine it helps a great deal if you're into cars when you're learning to drive too, though. I knew that when I was learning with my Dad I was going into it with a real desire to drive because I'd always loved cars, whereas my girlfriend is only learning at the moment because she needs to - she wouldn't bother learning if she didn't have to. Perhaps someone who has just been taught 'to drive' by an instructor might think that what they've been taught is all there is to know. Food for thought, I suppose. Great video as always!
As you are driving in Scotland i believe that you should know that the SNP are working towards the removal of at least 20% of all Private Vehicles within a few years. If Scotland which is predominately a rural country can consider this, then perhaps more urban areas will view this utopian ideal more favourably . eg Oxford. London and Bristol with their high charges for ULEZ zones and the new madness of rationing roads by POST CODE and Days of the week up to a maximum of about 100 days per annum called Low Traffic Neighbourhoods.
This is pretty much the way it works in Australia (State of Victoria specifically in this example)
At 16 you take a theory exam on roadrules and such, then they give you a learner's permit where you have to drive with a full license holder sitting next to you at all times and no longer than 2 hours at a time, you also must display a big yellow L plate. 2 years and atleast 150 logged hours of varied condition driving later you do the strict practical test (in a manual for a manual and auto license or auto for just an auto license) with a state driving tester and you get your P (propationary) license which has 2 levels, the Red P plate for the first year, the first 6 months of which there's a driving curfew that goes from midnight to 5am unless for necessary work or study, you can only carry one passenger and in some states you can only drive 90kph, then the Green P plate for another 3 years where you can have more passengers and can drive the full speed limit but you are still limited to cars with 130kw/t (kilowatts per metric tonne) or less (including EV's) until you are then given your full license where you are free to drive what you want at the minimum age of 21.
There are also lots of other restrictions on towing loads, blood alcohol content, more punishment for speeding and other traffic offenses etc.
Your on to something Jay. I'm 37, past my test best part of 20yrs ago, early 2000's my first car on the road was a MG ZR Trophy, (the entry level 105, with I think the optional extra of the 17" multi spoke alloys from original owner, no CD player/EW) cost me £7995, & just over 3k to insure. After that I had a 1.4 polo 6n2, slower but better built car. I then tried getting a Classic Impreza WRX. But as I was not 25 I was unable to get anyone to insure me on, this being around 2006/2007 roughly. But a few years back I see on insta where 17 year old are driving around in i30N's etc, maybe things changed but it's daft that kids with no experience can jump in quick cars compared to what I was able to as a first time driver, yes I had that ZR, but were not that quick, 100bhp ish, no torque and flat out eventually at 110ish. That car was the ceiling for me to actually get insurance on, I had the option of two RX7's for a very similar price, but no one touch me insurance wise.
I have been driving since I was 17 and I am retiring this year at 66 almost 50 years on the road, I have had 911’s, supercharged jags, range rovers, Morris minors
, all sorts. I currently have a Tesla M3 long range, the standard reps car and next to bottom of the Tesla range, and it’s too fast way too fast, and that speed is addictive and just too accessible, there is no longer any joy in hooking up a series of bends, climbing that curvy twisting road up the steep hill. It’s x box performance, and I agree not for the new inexperienced driver, but as electric cars become a standard company car, I am convinced that the recovery services will be pulling company car drivers out of hedges all over the country, and in the winter I suspect it’s only the 4wd that saves them.
So totally agree staged access is the thing, just don’t take MY electric car away when I get older, 😊 is that shortbread over there?
Here in Malaysia it is also the same. The RTD introduces two driving lessons one for manual and one for automatic. If you choose automatic in your license there will be indicator "A" indicating that you are only authorised to drive automatic cars. Both my kids opted for this even though I advised them to take manual lessons. Part of it is due the hill stop test and normally for manual car most people will fail as it takes skill to balance the accelerator and cluth pedals.
You would need a car ticket to start the HGV courses though. So in theory you would have driven something at least as far as the test.
And even then I don't care who you are you're not passing the HGV test with just 5 days of training if you have barely driven a car.
I passed my motorcycle test waaaaay back when the examiner simply watched from the roadside having given some instructions about which roads I was to take! He was apparently able to run down a few alleyways to see me pass by and at one point stepped out to make me do an emergency stop. Back at the test centre I was asked 3 questions from the highway code, then congratulated on my pass, at which point I was licensed to ride absolutely any motorcycle of any power. I could now go to the local motorcycle shop and buy a 120bhp 140mph superbike, well I could if I was rich enough!
I think you're spot on with staged licensing. Most people never ever drive high powered cars. We might all be interested in them, but really most people aren't. Most people are driving run of the mill hatchbacks that are competent short distance shopping and commuting cars, but hardly taxing to drive. People might think this becomes some kind of wealth tax again, only rich people would be able to afford the extra tests, but let's face it, you're going to need a bit of spare cash to run a performance vehicle. Of course, being ancient, none of this would apply to me 🙂
Interesting video as usual James, being honest, I am a young chap myself, only with about 6 months experience, I am a petrolhead - love cars but I understand the importance of being safe, not doing dangerous things on the road, it only takes one little thing to have an accident and injure somebody. That's why I don't take risks or do anything dangerous on the roads, especially in busy urban areas. It's okay to stretch a cars legs on some faster A-roads sometimes but understanding the speed limits, the limits of the car, and your driving ability as well as the conditions of the road and weather. Some people just pass their test, have a blatant disregard for safety and don't know how easy it is to get into an accident. I think most young drivers are already pretty crippled by insurance and telematics policies to not be in fast cars but even in slow cars you can still do a horrific amount of damage. Road safety is very important and maybe more education about it might help. But we don't want insurance to rise anymore than it already is. Shouldn't be the norm to pay thousands for insurance but instead to reduce the amount of accidents caused by newly passed drivers.
Great video as always Jay! Here in Italy we have something similar to what you put forward: for the first year of you having a license, you can only drive cars with less than 95hp and a power to tare ratio of 75hp/t (which in my opinion as a petrolhead is almost too strict cause modern cars weigh and cost a lot more than the Punto or mk2 Clio us mortals can afford. Also, even if the old beaters aren't as heavy, with 4 passengers and no turbo options pulling out in a roundabout becomes genuinely dangerous, unless you dump the clutch and burn it in the process).
In addition to that, for the 3 years as a novice driver you have to be completely sober (which should be the norm for everyone), if you break the highway code you get double the points taken away from your license (that's why grandparents get so many speeding tickets: grandchildren driving the only car they can and wanting to keep their license after going 33 in a 30).
Icing on the cake, novice drivers have lower speed limits (60 instead of 80 on highways, 55 in 70mph motorways; I rounded a bit so non-metric folks don't have to google conversions).
Get a petition set up, and get the people and the govt. talking about it. Your concerns are absolutely valid. I'm pleased I have both full licences.
Oh you are a youngster Jay.
I've never had a lesson or test on 2 wheels, yet can ride my 1972 Puch Maxi S 50cc moped without L-plates on my car licence.
Having passed in 1996 I can drive up to 7.5 tonne too and did many years back working for recovery firms.
Absolutely agree, when humdrum cars start doing sub 5 0-60 times then that may have the side effect of effectively having 2 tonne missiles on the road with an "inadequate control system" onboard.
I passed my B in 2009, my A2 in 2015 and my full A in 2022. The staging on bikes makes perfect sense from an idiot-proofing perspective. I think a staged process up the car types makes perfect sense. I know FAR more wallies in cars than on bikes. Check out how the driving licence works in Finland - very interesting.
There is a real issue when people who just got their license or only drove
I disagree - this happens in Australia and it’s a ridiculous outdated system. I have many friends under 21 with cars over 150bhp/tonne and nobody has crashed or been done for excessive speed, and they don’t drive irresponsibly. Dangerous drivers will be dangerous no matter what the car and I think that’s a big part of it, we’re all into cars so we sort of know what we’re doing and where the car’s limit is. Insurance is prohibitive enough under 21 and electric cars are particularly expensive for young drivers so I don’t think we need this system, at least not yet. I have thought about it before though, good video.
I think at current it doesn’t matter an enormous amount as insurance is so ludicrously high for anyone below 21-25 with any car a with a bit of power I think adding more tests would not actually result in much of a noticeable change for young people and what car they own, may work better for older drivers with less experience though.
Im 26 and i paid over 2k for a Peugeot 107 😢
Brilliant!! A country drive with a subject that is not about the car you're in. It's like a podcast on wheels with cool drive by's / sound / exterior shots etc... Jay has tapped into something new here. Go for a drive in a cool car and pic an interesting subject on "anything"... and with his wordsmith talent it is damn entertaining.
I think even just having changing how driving is taught in England would help a lot in terms of road/driver safety and in turn help with insurance costs. Here in Germany we have to learn to drive with a dedicated instructor who takes you through a curriculum to teach and show you the dangers on the road and taking you to increasingly challenging/dangerous roads in your area usually staying in town/city centre if you live near one whilst also doing some B-road driving. On top of this you have to complete a minimum set of hours of B-road, night and motorway driving during which they make sure you are made aware on how to behave and what dangers can occur. Then when your instructor thinks you are ready to take the exam your instructor sits with you while a state examiner sits in the back. All this has been getting rather expensive in recent years with everything coming in at around 2000 Euros but that isn't stopping most young people learning to drive. With this you are allowed to drive a car up to a max. theoretical loaded weight of 3,5 tonnes or a car-trailer combo up to the same 3,5 tonne rule. This leads to not just people in general being safe drivers but also having respect of the roads. However even so I think having an extra course for particularly high powered cars would be a good idea
Exactly. While VW sold their new GTIs only to 21 years that seemed like a marketing move bcause you just could have you're parent's or older sibling or so buy it for you. Or buy it not directly from VW. For motor bikes here in Germany there is also a max HP per kg rule (adapted to the EU rules a few years ago). A power to wheight ratio for cars would be great. You could still drive the Zeo or the electric Fiat 500 but that would be the limit ~8 to 9 seconds to 100km/h/62mph.
@@nitrovent Another thing to note is that while you might be able to just go and buy any car you want at any age here in Germany, insurances often won't insure people under 21 or often even 25 for sportier cars even if they don't have particularly high power-to-weight ratio. A friend of mine has an Elise in the family but insurances won't cover him to drive without elder supervision while being under 25
Back in 1976, when I passed my bike test, the only 'L' restriction was a max of 250cc. I'm now 73 and a "Fair weather " rider. I've sold my sport tourer and muscle bike, as the speed restrictions and cameras in and around London make them a licence killer. I kept my Z1200 Tenere, still powerful but more user-friendly (easier on the back)
Yeah I had a small incident with my rx8 that had to be claimed on, my insurance 4x'd for its renewal to ~£1.5k and I'm not even young driver really anymore at 24. cost of driving is mental.
2:55 The Kia EV6 GT is not 'less than £60,000'. That price would get you the EV6 GT-Line (a family SUV in a fancy frock)
1 year assessments should be done. LOads of revenue for HMG and loads of assurance for the dedicated car owners. End!
An excellent topic!
My addition to your piece is...
1. Both hybrid and fully electric vehicles are CVT/automatic transmission. Therefore, in the years to come we will potentially see far more people learning to drive and ride EV's only taking an automatic license. With hybrid and EV still costing a far higher premium to get into than IC vehicles, potentially the manual test will be considered the poor persons test?! However, those with a manual license will get to drive both (including the classic car offerings - cheaper insurance etc); unlike those limited to their automatic licenses.
2. As a motorcyclist and car driver, I learnt far more from a "Bike Safe" course following passing my bike test than I did whilst gaining my direct access bike licence. There is currently no opportunity for car drivers to do a similar (inexpensive) course following passing their test.
The driving test should be seen as merely the first stepping stone on a motorists education. Ie adequate. Further training in a tier format should be available (but not mandatory), and insurance companies should also recognise the tier structure. The current advanced licence is not fit for purpose (rip off)! As the small discount one gets on an insurance premium cost, actually is spent each year on the membership.
3. Young, middle aged, or old, it should make no difference in terms of "experience". I know many people who had no previous motorcycle experience and did a one week direct access bike test course and then shortly thereafter had a serious accident crashing their high performance motorcycle due to their inexperience and incompetence. Age doesn't cover inexperience! So a two year probation for "any" new driver/rider, together with a performance limitation, would be a positive start.
The worst thing about how the British organize insurance is that you HAVE TO insure the car with a specific driver. So you can not just borrow a car from someone. I don/t know any other country that do this, as in other countries anyone can drive any car as long as you have the driving licence. It's very annoying as sometimes it would be very useful to borrow a car from someone but always the same problem; you are not insured..
South Africa has the same issue and it absolutely drives me up the wall. I luckily have insurance that allows other drivers but good lord it’s pricy
@@cujotwentysix7519 Yes it's very annoying. I understand the reasoning behind it, but my God the problems that this creates are HUGE. Funny thing is that British people are so used to it they don't complain about it, I guess it's a combination of "I don't have to get questions bout borrowing the car" and the fact that they don't know better, because they have never actually experienced how much better it is to be able to borrow a car from a friend or family member when you need to...!
To be fair, theres also advantages, such as its you who are insured, not the vehicle which can lead to lower prices if you got multiple vehicles. For me, I would therefore switch to the uk model in a heartbeat.
I think as long as both the owner of the car and the person borrowing it have their own insurance then it's fine to drive it legally, but it's usually only covered for 3rd party.
@@GoldenCroc Well that's not true, I can only drive two cars in the whole of the UK, as I am the named driver on ONLY those two, so no you are wrong, it's not the driver that is insured, it;s the NAMED driver on one PARTICULAR car. And I doubt very much that this reduce prices at all. I have insurance on a motorbike in Norway that I used when I am there, the insurance is cheap compared to the UK. It's a bad useless system that is bad for everyone.
As a motorcyclist, the motorcycle test also have many flaws (at least here in Spain, which should be similar to UK):
- There is nothing forcing you to actually ride a bike before getting your full motorcycle license, so you can get you A1, never drive anything with two wheels, get your A2, never drive anything, and then, with 0 real miles, take your "A" course and go a buy a S1000RR.......
- Yes, an A2 license is restricted to 35KW, but there is no restriction whatsoever regarding torque, so for the license a Ninja 400 (that is very low on torque) is the the same as a F900R or a Ducati Supersport both which have tons of torque, even restricted)
- Similar to the previous one, there is no limitation on weight, so you could drive a 160KG 300CC bike, but you can also drive drive a +240KG bulky adventure bike with that same license, while the 300CC is very easy to ride, a heavy bike is not, especially in urban environments
I want to get a full manual licence but I have noticed pretty much all of the instructors near me seem to have recently all got hybrid or electric cars and I would rather own something older and easier to maintain. I have just relied on public transport before but now I only have a bus service that is timetabled to be every 20 minutes (cut back from 10 minutes to reduce pollution) but I often end up waiting over an hour (2 hours 15 minutes is my current record), so I am now spending more money on Taxis than before.
A few years ago I was in the US. For various reasons I wanted a US drivers licence, so rang the local office on Monday, was given an appointment for Tuesday PM. I went, had an eye test, a theory test and a practical test there and then, and left with a proper, plastic photocard licence, for the princely sum of $35. That is where any change needs to start. The simple cost, complexity and time involved with DVLA.
Using the motorcycle formula for electric cars will not work. They use power/weight ration, where with electric vehicles what makes them pokey is the lack of a torque curve, so torque/weight would have to be used.
What would work, is to equip vehicles with a card reader, similar to a tachograph, and use that to control ECUs to limit acceleration rates, speeds etc.
There is one thing I find to be quite a factor in novice drivers and collisions. Their switch from the FWD hatch to their first BMW. They will more than likely end up pointing the wrong way on roundabouts.
You make a good point about electric cars. I witnessed a tesla reversing from their driveway yesterday, was very odd. They couldn't control it, it shot out rapidly. I don't know why they haven't restricted the acceleration, but I have an idea: these early EVs are allowed to be fast to encourage take up from people who otherwise wouldn't be interested. When it's time, the government will legislate against it, and everyone will have their EV detuned. Probably sinple enough to do. All new cars by law have speed limiter and tracking tech now, so I don't know why anyone would buy one, but I suspect they will reduce the specs of them soon. At first people won't protest, but then they'll take it too far. The slippery slope is real, not a fallacy. They've gone crazy with 20mph limits, banning cars from places (even EVs), and they're not gonna stop until they have total control. TLDR: don't give them ideas, and excuses to impose more control
"Sorry sir but you've exceeded your carbon allowance for this week, your car will be disabled for the next 48 hours"..
People still think a social credit system (carbon credits) is a conspiracy theory. Fact is the powers that be want us moving around less and have planned a much lower standard of living for us (not them of course)
@F u Johnson it's no theory, they're quite open about what they're trying to do, just that most people are either ignorant or in denial. Always worth pushing back against things though.
After I flew the UK coop again in 2003, and when I breached 70 years, my UK driving licence was automatically revoked as I couldn't provide a UK address. Bit inconvenient renting a car on the rare occasions I visited, but it discouraged UK visits which was a plus with respect to rip-off UK.
Then I realised I no longer have access to the NHS and also my National Insurance (State Pension) was frozen, namely no increases for you sunshine.
I'm starting top wonder if I'm still British. Blessing in disguise or what!
Jack, the Japan Alps Brit
When I took my driving test (a long time ago) I was very confident I could pass, unless I had a really bad day.
But I didn't think I was ready to be let loose on the road by myself.
I had never driven in the wet, had hardly driven at night, and had never gone over 70 km/h, the L plate limit.
I passed easily enough, and survived driving on my own as much due to luck as good management.
In Australia they have a somewhat complicated system for getting your car license
First you must pass a knowledge test to get your learner license (you can drive but must have someone next to you)
After a year of having your l’s you can do a hazard perception test
Then if you have completed the required hours and pass the practical test you get your red p’s which allows you to drive by yourself.
In NSW there are restrictions on what can be driven on your p’s e.g the car must have a power to weight ratio of under 130kw/t and have a 0 to 60 time of no less than 6 seconds. This is good however in other states such as Western Australia there are no such restrictions.
A young person came past in a HGV with 45 tones of 1100cc motorbikes on board
Great video. I've been looking into how and why speed limits are being reduced here in NZ, despite the vastly safer vehicles that are available, chasing a dream called 'Road to Zero'. This singular focus on speed limits completely ignores the only thing that actually makes a difference - the driver. And hence very thing you are talking about - hands on driver training, instead of handing out bits of plastic and saying 'good luck, learn on the job and hopefully you don't kill anyone or yourself'
The thing with electric cars being too quick is that all it takes to turn them down is some software and a volume knob, but that volume knob - if it has one at all - is buried in some touchscreen menus.
Didn't Italy used to have some kind of step-up system with new drivers?
When I did my bike test I rode around a housing estate while the examiner observed my riding. We did an emergency stop and then a few highway code questions and I was free to swap my MZ125 for a 750 Suzuki. Those were the days!
On EV's it should be easy enough to limit the power of the car in software for newly qualified drivers. In fact it could be linked to the car remote fob so if the car was driven by more experienced drivers then they would have their own fob. Each fob would indicate if it is a full power or restricted version so when plod pull you they can check this against your license.
The British insurance system is crazy too, in Australia if the car is insured anyone can drive it
Insurance is pretty cheap here if you aren't young or dangerous or live in a high crime area (knew someone whos annual cost was about £6k on a Fiat 500, and she used public transport to get to work). I pay around £200 per year, yes, my car is low powered, but even something high powered and fairly valuable wouldn't likely top £1k. If I added a new driver, that alone would add a grand or so on any car. Oh, and because I have insurance in my name, I can drive any other car third party.
@@imnotamechanic3491 insurance isnt even close to being cheap here. Americans pay so little they dont even consider insrance costs when buying cars.
@@imnotamechanic3491 we don’t have to pay to add extra drivers, anyone can drive the car provided it’s insured.
@@imnotamechanic3491 I’m 24 and pay like £65 a month for a Mini John Cooper Works, I think that’s pretty cheap tbh, I looked at m140i’s and it was gonna cost like £120 a month which is a bit steep
I live in Bradford, we have endless crashes with young people who have cash businesses renting lambo and crashing them.
So yes, you have a point.
In 24. Since I passed my test I've had a 75hp ford fiesta and a 95hp Dacia Sandero with a turbo. Both had more than enough power for everyday driving and both are comfortable on the motorway. Any more power will simply lead to burning more fuel in most cases. I'm happy that I have a car that comfortably seats four people, has a big boot, gets out of its own way and does 42mpg around town and 46 on long journeys. Maybe when I'm older and I have more money and driving experience I might look at something a bit more pokey but I'm happy. I don't want to have to pay through the nose on insurance to run a fiesta st or BMW 1 series like some people my age do.
After having my first car for about 8 or 9 months, I upgraded to something with the best part of 2.5 times the power. It was a car I'd always wanted, but the jump up in performance really caught me by surprise, even for something that isn't all that fast compared with modern vehicles. I certainly wasn't the best driver when I started, which was about three years after getting my license, and I'm glad I didn't jump straight in and get a fast car right from the start. It's rather cliche, but you do have to respect a car's power. A bit more power makes driving easier in some places, but you do have to be careful.
I’m surprised to hear you only passed you car test in 2016. Interesting vid thanks. My licence dates back to 1989 when I was 17, which means I can drive loads of things my kids who passed in the last couple of years can’t, so adding bhp restrictions doesn’t seem much of a leap.
Same, I figured he was in his early 30s so would have had it for 15 years
When I first passed (over 10 years ago) I was quoted £9700 for a Daewoo Matiz. When I asked as to why, apparently the area I used to live in was THE worst vehicle crime area in the UK (inner city Birmingham) needless to say many of my friends resorted to driving without insurance for the next 4-5 years. Not saying it was right to do but they needed the cars for University and work. I was fortunate enough to land a job at a car rental company which gave me a company car 🤷♂️ 10 years later we now all have good jobs, cheap insurance and im paying £600 a year for a Focus ST3 🤷♂️ its a hard life for young drivers who dont really have a choice as to what area they live in!
Great idea. The only way it will work is if the exchequer gets a slice! I’m 66 and a former professional driver, but I think anyone over 60 should have regular driving tests as even though I’m fit and healthy my driving ability is way less than when I drove for a living, (but still far better than many I witness on the public highway!)😂
In Australia inexperienced drivers are limited on the vehicles they can legally drive. Basically turbo and V8 cars are banned.
A Countach for a first car, not a turbo, not a V8. Sorted :-D
There's used to be a much easier way to get a full bike license.
Move to Japan. Sit their test for 0-400CC motorbikes. Get the Japanese bike license. Then, move to the UK, exchange your Japanese license for a UK license (no test needed, you just swap it), and you'd get a full bike license in return. Your license has a little "j" after the "A", saying from where it originated.
Reason? The bike categories were not the same in the two countries (we were 125 and upwards?), and the Japanese license got rounded up. I suspect now it'd translated into an A2.
Outside of Europe, there's remarkably few countries whose driving licenses are directly exchangeable for UK licenses.
I began riding a motorcycle on a cbt and then DAS many years later. And then a car licence many years later. And then a bus driver. All without any incidents accidents thanks to my previous experience starting out on a motorcycle.
Speaking from the experience of someone who went the bike route first:
I think the Cat B (though mainly the driving lessons before then) are pivotal in understanding the road at all.
I passed my CBT first time round. I promptly crashed it because I could interpret road markings (give way sign was obscured by a tree, which didn't help either).
About every 2-3 years my mother, who is 63 now, and has been driving for 18 years, spins out somewhere during the winter. She says i'm too agressive a driver, but do i spin out? I don't, and that's considering that i sometimes give it a bit of an angle.
Her excursions have thankfully never led to any consequence, but i don't think spinning out really exists, losing control does, and it's not about age, it's about involvement in what you're doing, so some kind of a watershed for someone to get into a fast car is required, which would make it a deliberate effort, be it skidpad lessons or some other type of qualification proof, given that you can get yourself into trouble in a 130 hp kia if you don't know what you're doing.
Here in VicDanistan, formerly part of the Commonwealth of Australia, we have a power to weight restriction for probationary drivers... both for cars and motorcycles.
When I got my licences in 2005, I had a 1978 XC GXL Fairmont with a factory 302 and that was fine while it was factory. Then I did some pretty tasty mods to it and it definitely wasn't legal, but I was moving to Western Australia, where there were no restrictions and used to get around in that with a 383 stroker engine swapped into it. The thing was a beast, still is a beast, the bloke I sold it to still has it and it still runs the same engine, only needed a minor freshen up last year. Not bad for a bunch of kids (with a bit of help from dad) barely out of high school bolting it together.
Anyway, I used to get harassed on the east coast in it. In Western Australia, the cops just used to pull me over to have a look at the car, they were always cool. Buuuuut it must be said, that was NOT a car for a young driver and scared me stiff on too many occasions to mention. As much as young me hated the laws, dad of a 15 year old now is 100% behind them.
How old I feel
Really interesting video as usual. In Northern Ireland we have a system where for the first one year after passing your test you must display "R" plates similar in size to the traditional "L" plates. During that time you can still drive any car but are restricted to 45 mph. I think we were supposed to be a trial for the whole UK but doesn't seem to have been adopted anywhere else.
Archaic. That used to be a thing in several other European countries. Before I got my license it was the case in my country too, but it was removed as it was just a catalyst for lots of problems and solved basically nothing.
People just targeted those with the "new driver symbols", they were blocking others unnecessarily with the speed limit, especially heavy trucks. And the speed limit does absolutely nothing positive for anyone's safety in reality.
Why would a symbol like that help out in traffic anyway? People "watch out" for them or something? That's what all drivers are supposed to do to every other driver anyway!
totally correct. staged licences based on power output has a long track record on two wheels; it would be straightforward to introduce it on 4 wheels; EVs don't even need ECU changes, just software/app modes
Living in a rural area it is scary how fast new cars are; particularly for non-vehicular road users
“Shortbread” 🤣🤣🤣. As a petrolhead who is married to an ardent biker, I wholeheartedly agree with what you’ve said. I believe Northern Ireland already operates a restricted car licence for the first 12 months of driving which could be rolled out across Britain.
I also feel it would make drivers far more aware if they had to complete a CBT on a motorcycle or trike, even if they had no intention of ever riding.
I have an A2 licence holding friend who has a restricted 500 bike but drives an articulated car transporter for a living which seems crazy!
Surely EV’s could read the drivers licence number electronically and run a restricted map for inexperienced drivers with only a small number of software tweaks.
If I had the power that I now have, 315hp, when I passed my test in '92 then I would have probably ended up as a greasy spot on the asphalt . A graduated license is really the most logical step to take. Upto 21 year's old limit engine power to 100hp. Then have a weapon 3 year probationary period of, say 200hp, then at 24, by which time driver's could have 7 experience behind the wheel, allow them to drive any category b vehicle. Like you said, everyone should benefit.
Where I am in Australia, when you turn 16, you have your learner's permit (It's just a theory-based test) which you keep for two years, which you have to log down each time you drive to get a minimum of 120 hours, plus some nighttime and rough weather. Once you're 18, you have a two stage probationary period of two years each, limited to a car that's roughly 170hp per tonne. If you're 21 or older when you start still need your learners permit, but you do not need to log hours driven, you could get your learners one week, get your licence the next if you like, once you do get your license you go straight to the second probation which you have for three years, then you have a full license. In other states, you can drive what you want on your probationary license, but you're limited to 100 km/h.
They've been cutting down the time of the driving portion of the license test when you go for it (they already reduced it a few years ago), I only had to do a thirty-minute drive made up of three stages, in the last two had optional things the instructor could get you to do, one was either parallel park or do a three point turn, none of it was freeway driving or back roads (back roads aren't close to the test centre, but still), I could drive on the freeway on my learners, however. I did plenty of non-logged hours (being over 21), but after going through it myself, I could see how you could pass it with minimal on the road hours and several driving lessons.
All honesty, people still drive like shit, hahaha.
Oh, and for the old people, I think at the very least they need to go for a theory test and another test to check their brain is still with it and able to concentrate, at an extreme a driving test, my grandfather who's over 80 could have renewed his license for ten years if he wanted too.
120 hours of driving with a bad instructor and bad habits is worse than 20 hours of a. Advanced driving course imo.
@@Low760 I agree that's an issue with it, you can only learn from the people around you, and if they're shit, you're going to be shit and not know how to drive correctly, also the issue of your parents/whoever takes you driving not being up-to-date with the road rules, I did a driving course for new learners which included a class on road rules for parents (among other stuff), from what I was told, nobody knew the new rules.
Equally, perhaps vehicle size could be restricted in the same way. In London, there are far too many people driving huge SUVs who can’t cope with their size.
I FULLY AGREE >>>
Cars vs Motorbikes, 17 year olds and the ridiculousness of the car tests, training AND LACK OF RESTRICTIONS...
Since being a fully qualified ROSPA/DSA Motorcycle Training Instructor MANY years a go, I have seen Motorcycle licencing change time and time again to become MUCH MORE STRINGENT, but car driving NOT SO MUCH.
With bikes...
- You HAVE to undergo a CBT (Compulsory Basic Training), where you spend a few hours being educated about the safety, the dangers, the clothing, the controls and then basic riding of MCs (starting, stopping, manoeuvres, figure of 8s etc, then taken out on road for demonstrating you have sufficient basic riding/road/traffic skills). IF you show it, THEN, THIS ONLY gets you up to 2 years riding (which allows you to undergo the next step, or at 2 years, redo your CBT to continue riding), on a MAXIMUM 125cc with approx MAXIMUM 14 BHP, NO pillion/passengers and NO motorways WITH 'L' plates.
THEN you can (age dependent) either:
Take the next steps to get onto 'A' larger BUT STILL RESTRICTED BHP bike (like say an OFFICIALLY restricted 600/650cc bike)
OR
At age of 24 'Direct Access' that'll get you onto whatever bigger/unrestricted bikes you want/can afford.
(Without getting into it all, it IS stepped, controlled and HELPS Motorcyclists BE BETTER/SAFER RIDERS).
Cars?
Yeah.... 😒, there is NOTHING 'Really' stopping a 17 year old, passing their Theory, then their Practical, and then...
Jumping into a Civic Type R, Hyundai Type N, BMW, Audi, Merc, Skoda VRS or such like, and 'Tear arseing around' with 3 or 4 of their mates on board in what is a FAST SOLID LUMP OF STEEL at 120/130/140 MPH CAPABLE speeds and doing STUPID manoeuvres/overtakes/speeding...
IT S H O U L D B E
THE SAME AS THE MOTORCYCLE STEPPED SYSTEM.
In that, FROM the ages of 17 THROUGH TO say 19, THEY MUST BE RESTRICTED IN CC AND/OR POWER of cars.
AND THEN MAYBE AFTER 2 (or even 3) FULL YEARS of driving can they maybe take a SECOND tier to gain access to bigger CC/More powerful cars.
A modern 1 Litre (VW UP/Citygo/Mii etc), or even say a Fiat Grande Punto 1.2, Fiesta 1.2/1.3 or that kind of CC/Power...
IS EASILY ENOUGH TO GET OVER THE SPEED LIMIT!!! And EEEEEASILY ENOUGH power for a 17, 18, 19 year old...
125cc bikes CAN hit 75/80, my Punto 1.2 8v CAN do 90+
SO, WHY ALLOW a 17-21 year old access to a car that CAN do 0-60 in
Shocked!! When started riding at 17 just brought a Suzuki 250 put "L" plates no lessons taught myself put in for a bike test passed and brought a Suzuki GS750 happy days, that was all you had to do by law. Must admit if I had to go through that to-day probably wouldn't bother, may-be that's the idea.. Great Video
you bought those bikes..
I agree although I don't see the link between learning to drive a manual gearbox and driving an extremely fast car. I actually don't think young drivers need to learn how to drive a manual unless they have an interest in vintage cars. 90+% of new cars are automatic/dual clutch and electric cars are very unlikely to ever be made as manual cars as the torque curve of electric motors doesn't require it.
In fact, despite loving vintage manual cars and owning a few (all manuals), I have recommended most of my friends who are either in their mid twenties or have decided to get a licence in their 30s or even 40s (and now the children of my friends who had children very very young!) to not bother learning manual unless they want to own vintage cars. But most kids nowadays will get a banger until they can afford a new car on finance and "upgrade" every few years.
The manual test is a several week course and is far more in-depth. The automatic one is almost designed for tourists and uber drivers to easily get - kind of a joke by comparison.
@@plektosgaming in the UK? The tests are the same where I am from (live in the UK for decades) hence the only difference is that you don't have to deal with the shifter and clutch. Also don't you have the same number of mandatory training hours before taking the driving license test?
@@Photoandcargeek In theory, yes, but the actual time it takes the average new driver to learn manual as well as the rest of the driving skills is typically far longer as it's far more involved, even if the requirements are similar. That extra time it takes is time also reinforcing the basics and time with the instructor as well. Such as a hill start. Not a factor at all/zero brain cells with automatic, move to the next topic. Versus several days to get right/become second nature with manual. And this just compounds. When my son learned manual, it took him about two months to get moderately decent at just getting things working and not stalling in a stressful moment(all it had was ABS and zero other systems), but driving my dad's Audi, he was zooming around in a week as it was dong almost everything for him including practically keeping him in the correct lane and even warning him about his blind spots. In terms of difficulty, I have to know how the car works and what it's doing versus basically a fast video game on wheels. I can see a modern lorry driver getting a pass in a week (as he pointed out) as its doing most of the basics and lulling them into a false sense of security.
The other alternative which appeals to me is to model Aviation training. One has to pass certain competency and experience test to firstly get a restricted licence, then second to get a basic private licence. This restricts you to smaller, certain types of aircraft which I would equate to the smaller, less powerful cars. Then, as your experience goes, you can apply for ‘endorsements’ for other type of aircraft, including larger, more powerful and more complicated ones. To be able to fly a 787 or the like, or on the other end of the scale a military fighter jet you must go through rigorous training and regular reviews to make sure you are up to date and safe. I would equate the 787 to articulated lorries and semi trailers and the like, and military aircraft to high performance sports cars of any power train. I believe that would certainly help.
I got my bike licence in 74. Back then, it was a 10 min test observed from the pavement, and one emergency stop.
You basically described me at the beginning! I learned to drive in my partner’s car for about a month, never saw an instructor or went to driving school, then passed my test driving in the same car that I learned in (automatic) and then got a Tesla as a first car - it was too quick, ended up selling the Tesla and changed to an x3 which is much more civilised but now I understand how dangerous fast car really are, especially for people that aren’t experienced. Also most people are deranged and will get upset if you overtake them in a slower car, the amount of Teslas and Kia’s that won’t let me overtake them is just ridiculous so it’s obvious most people aren’t ready to drive these crazy quick cars and something should change. That’s my rant for the day
Tesla are driven by the same bully boys you see in German whips now.
I totally understand what you are saying Jay. It also doesn't help that they are trying to make getting a car driving licence difficult if you are not good at theory tests and lack money. I keep failing my theory test even though I was so close to passing. For some reason hazard perception is not my problem, it's multiple choice and I haven't been behind the wheel in a few years now and I'm in my mid 20s. Hopefully I will get my full license and drive but another problem I am suffering is that I live in London and London is no good for cars. Anyway your videos are great, keep up the good work.
I grew up on a farm....my driving lessons were on tractors and combine harvesters and articulated vehicles....all that before I was a teenager....later on I got my driving licence... so easy in a car....single clutch, power steering, seat belts, interior lights, horn button on steering wheel, pockets for drinks, power windows, power comfort, heated seats, heated cabin.... I could go on...bring back my old skool where you had to work to drive!
When I was offered a company car many years ago, to qualify (so company insurance was reduced) my company sent you on a defensive driving course, 2 trainees and an instructor, about 6 hours in a car taking turns driving and discussing how bad we both were 😂 but it was well worth it, and at the end when we were tested for about 45 mins of driving each, with no instruction, just follow signs to x, and about 10mins of that involved describing the road, potential hazards, what was behind, and why we were doing what we were doing, we both felt it was well worth the time, and I went on to do a couple more lessons (but I didn’t do the full IAM).
I felt then, and still now, that everyone should do this training, it included a bit of motorway driving too.
In Sweden, you can start practice driving a car when you are 16 years old with a driver's license permit, at 17 years and 6 months you can start practice driving to get a car driver's license, but you cannot drive until you are 18 years old.
With a B driving license you can drive passenger cars and light trucks up to 3500 kilos. As an 18-year-old, you can even drive a supercar with 1,000 horsepower. But car insurance is very expensive for young people between 18-30 years of age, then there is a price difference on the insurance for men and women, as women have lower costs for car insurance. Several studies over the years have shown that men are more often involved in traffic accidents than women, more men than women drive too fast and get fined, the same thing applies to a suspended driver's license for driving too fast, is much more common among men than women in Sweden.
I have passed my test when I was 22 (money was tight when i was 17-18 and later i was more focused on my studies), i got my first car about a month and a half later, a 2009 Mazda 2 GTA with a peppy 1.5 engine and a shortly geared manual gearbox, after 2 years of driving i still dont find i reached the potential of this little car with 103hp.
I have been feeling similarly with you and i'd set similar limits, a basic licence for grocery getters and small roadsters that most people can get, if anybody has money for a Golf GTI or Focus ST/RS they probably have some more to do a bit of training.
Another thing i'm worried about is the increasing weight of cars, slightly fancier saloons are easily around the two ton mark and there are SUVs too driven by distracted people which is also dangerous.
In most Australian states, P platers (those who have passed a driving test but are not yet fully licensed) are limited to a 130kW/tonne power to weight ratio. Personally, I think it’s too high (around 100kW/tonne would be more appropriate) but it’s a decent idea.
Before that, they were banned from all V8s, high performance sixes (there was a list), and forced induction vehicles.
I’ve got a horror story! I’m 21, full EU, Spanish manual and automatic license for nearly 3 years. No points, offenses or anything like that.
I work with two automotive companies in the UK both of which I am on the insurance for and am often driving cars between 100k-200k.
I wanted to get a 1989 Jeep Cherokee as my first car. They’re between £10-20k. I was quoted £22,000 for third party insurance by Adrian Flux. My yearly insurance can pay for another car!
One point I have to make is modern high-performance vehicles are very forgiving when compared to old-performance cars. Nowadays, the main issue of driving a performance car is judging when to brake. In the old days, it was completely different, try jumping into a muscle car and flooring it, most drivers of today would just spin off the road and crash.
I’ve been trying to learn to drive since I was 17, I’m now 22. I have difficulty learning new things sometimes and with the prohibitive cost of lessons and a lack of friends and family willing to teach me I’ve been in a sort of limbo for the past few years. I’d like to think I’d be on the road soon but I struggle with traditional style exams like the theory. I remember I went to do my theory and was severely put off by unfriendly staff at the test centre. It’s frustrating that I’m having all these challenges because I really want to get out and have a bit of freedom and enjoy myself
It's hard. I have dyspraxia so it took me five years to learn to drive. I did have some pretty poor instructors initially which didn't help but got there in the end. The cost is challenging these days though so I totally understand why so many people likely can't afford it. I wouldn't be able to.
First off, Top quality video bringing up a topic that needs addressing. Just a small correction, if you are old enough for a full A bike license ( 21 and up ) you don't have to stage it over all of those 2 year periods. I did my A2 license at 17 with my dad (52) since he was old enough he could go from CBT straight to a full unlimited license. since I got my bike license two years before my car license i had a totally different perspective on driving and felt like i had a distinct advantage in road awareness. I passed my test during Covid in a town i didn't know first try with no lessons, i put A LOT of that down to my motorcycle instructors. The teaching and nuggets of life saving information like positioning, distance judging, braking and car body language are essential and should definitely be part of the car test/teaching. Also in the bike test as mentioned in the video is the "cones test" basically a handling test. this needs to be a thing in a car test. watching people drive its clear that very few drivers know what to do on slippy surfaces, fast twisty roads, swerve situations, and also direct hazard avoidance whilst also not causing an accident yourself. all of which is taught ( drilled in ) in bike training.
In my experience of driving, 11 years as a bus driver, a bit of delivery driving before that, 4 years taxi driving and plenty of years driving my car I can honestly say the worst road users are: 1, cyclists. 2,foreigners. 3, elderly (straight across roundabouts with no lane discipline). 4, women (no clue of their surroundings and drive ‘in the moment’. 5, youths (checking social media in a cloud of vape). Oh the storm of abuse I open myself to but…. Just saying 😉
The solution for mentioned elderly is simple, but not quite present just yet - self-driving cars. Although I don't know if it ever comes to England as most of our roads are from the 19th century.
I'm a driving instructor and I agree with everything you have to say on it. I also though think it should be compulsory to do a mandatory re sit if tests every 10 year until 65 and then it's every 5 years
Ide move to a different country if they did some 1984 stuff like that.
@@fortheloveofnoise same if someone does something dangerous then yes take their licence away but there’s no way I’m doing a test again, gives me ptsd just thinking about it, been driving almost 6 years now
As a pupil at a good grammar school we lost one or more members of the fifth or sixth forms (years 11 to 13 now.) to a motorcycle accident every year. The motorcycle park end of the school, was packed with motor cycles. One particularly cool member of staff joined them on his Honda 750 four.
Later in the 90s I returned to the school to teach and all the sixth form had progressed to cars, there were no motorbikes, there was only one death due to a car crash that I can remember from that time and that may have been caused by a component malfunction though speed was a factor.
You are right about electric cars and the need for perhaps a performance limit on young drivers. At the moment that function is carried out by the insurance companies essentially pricing young drivers out of the performance market.
But he cars I learnt on had about 50bhp per Litre, that's 65bhp or so for my Marina 1.3, now a Peugeot 107 has 70 bhp and is regarded as an entry level car.
I knew myself only too well and only bought a sports car when I was convinced the silliness of youth had worn off.
I think though that I disagree with your assessment of the HGV licence, yes you can get an HGV licence in a quicker easier time than a motorbike licence, but the motivation for doing so is very different, no one gets an HGV licence for fun, days out in the Derbyshire dales, do they? An HGV licence is for work, to make a living, so the mindset of someone applying for an HGV licence is completely different to that of a lte teen applying for a motorcycle licence.
Interesting idea. Because I am ancient when I passed my bike test, you could ride anything up to 250cc, fitted with L plates, back them there was some fairly quick bikes. The electric car licence issue may need looking at. Last week a friend road tested a new Nissan Leaf EV, even with 4 adults on board it was surprisingly quick, actually a decent car. The driver has driven very little for a few years, (and it showed!) in a few days she will be let loose in a busy area, on her own in what 5 years ago would have been a quick car. Warning old people are coming after you!
Torquay the epicenter for the olds having car accidents. Also The Avenue in Lower Sunbury. Car parking is facing the shops.The count is now 3 cars parked half into shops. Last one was a ladies hairdressers. 3 customer and staff hurt. Btw I have AM N430 vantage.