i see your point, but with this system the mag has to be removed anytime there is a malfunction, during reloads or not. if you are going for speed, cutting down on extra moments is where it's at. my 2 cents
James, why does locking the bolt to the rear first create a bigger problem during a malfunction? On every other semiautomatic weapon system (carbine, pistol, etc), you lock the bolt to the rear FIRST (at least with a double feed). Why is the mp5 different?
That is the correct Immediate Action for HK's. Cock, hook and look. See what your dealing with: Rounds in the magazine, no rounds in the chamber. No rounds in the magazine, no rounds in the chamber. Rounds in the magazine, round in the chamber. Weapon fires, weapon stops: Rip the mag out. Insert a fresh one. Cock the weapon. That's just an assumption that you know what the issue is. You may be correct, it may be an empty mag. But an empty mag should be treated like every other malfunction in an HK. Cock hook look. Perform the necessary drill based on what you see. Then slap that handle and carry on firing.
Is there a reason why you don't lock the bolt back first? I've seen a number of other instructors teach this way, and it seems to make sense since your hand is already on the forend, it's natural to sweep the charging handle. Going to the magazine and then back to the handle and then back to the mag on your belt seems to be wasting at least one motion. Then again, you're the professionals and maybe I'm missing something.
why not lock the bolt back first then change mags? wouldn't that be more efficient? you're doing mag, bolt, mag, bolt, fire. why not bolt, mag, mag, bolt, fire. it is the same number of actions, but you can kill 2 birds with one stone by mag swapping at the same time as opposed to back tracking to grab a mag. which should, in turn, be faster correct? I'm probably wrong, but it is making sense right now lol
it would be cool to see it back to back on a timer or something to see the difference. maybe i'll try and beat him to the punch and make one on it LOL! we can compare the difference with a professional like him and a for fun nobody shooter like me hahaha
I might do it during this weekend's class (if I remember), which might have to be done by having the other students do it both ways just to baseline the average time.
I agree on locking bolt back first being the quicker way, but if you have some kind of malfunction removing the magazine first is the way to go - and since you never know, the way shown is this clip is adviseable. Also, the split second you gain isn't really that crucial when seen in relation to the certainty you get.
words cannot express how amazed I am at his theory with the manual of arms. It certainly makes sense. you just have to look over a few factors that most gun people would cringe at like letting a good round go to waste
MrSomeoneIam I believe it is a just in case thing. in the event that there is a malfunction such as a double feed the mag well will be open to allow the problem to fall free when you lock the bolt open. normally you wouldn't have to stow the empty, so you're not taking your hand as far from the action.
Yeah that makes more sense to me to lock back first. Not only would provide better economy of motion (hand moves less total distance while accomplishing same tasks), it would also provide more continuity in training since clearing a double feed would be almost exactly the same. Someone with real experience please correct us if we are wrong.
Plain and simple, the MP5 series suck. The only people who like them are those who never owned or used one, or those whose only experience with SMGs are the MP5. By the way, personally I am not sure since I come from open bolt experience so my first instinct is to pull the bolt back before I do anything else, but many strip the magazine out even with M16/M4 rifles because old USGI magazines sometimes aren't drop free. The instructions to strip magazine then lock bolt back may be due to the attempt to preserve this instinct. Personally I think it is pointless. You aren't shooting an M16, you are shooting an MP5 which operates and feels different. We should train for the most optimal method for the weapon we are using, not a one size fits all approach.
So my understanding is that recommending doing this method it creates muscle memory.. for standard reloading and malfunction clearing, but at the cost of speed from not locking the bolt back first.
The sequence make more sense if you make the cocking/locking action the very last sequence. I.E: OFF, (take Mag out), Insert Fresh Mag in, then Rack to chamber it. ~ That way you are saving time by eliminating one step (pulling cocking lever and locking it)
Why would the bolt not be locked back first, while the support hand is right next to it, then the hand would only have a single movement down to the belt line to retain the magazine and grab a new one, instead of doing it the way shown, where you go from having your hand on the gun to reaching to the magazine supply/storage area of your gear twice? Seems like locking the bolt back, swapping mags, and then charging the weapon would be much more efficient in terms of total amounts of movements made, with no downsides at all, unless in missing something?
The downside is that if you encounter a malfunction, you need to first remove the mag then clear the malfunction. Building muscle memory for only one series of manipulations is more efficient.
you have a valid point there, but that would be at any time though with a malfunction. not just during mag changes so it is kind of a moot point. if you are going for speed, cutting down on extra movements is the way to go when any time there is a malfunction the mag will likely have to be removed. my 2 cents.
PROTIP.: There are some people with "magazine problems". As a german i can tell you there is a solution to your magazine problem. Stop giving the magazine a push after the insert, simply pull it a little to your body after you indert it so it can lock in place. Thats all insert and pull the magazine to your body.
Agree on the method. Surprised the "HK slap" paranoia about breaking the charging handle wasn't addressed, but it seems to be on old models only. Unfortunately at the matches I have shot, I'm never proactive at the right time and go click instead of bang.
I would think you could reload the MP5 Sort of like an AK: After locking the bolt back, Grip a fresh magazine in your hand, hit the mag release with your thumb and pull out the old magazine, drop it, slide the new mag in. Then Hit the bolt and send it forwards. For a Tactical reload, just don't discard the old magazine.
I've got a HK style rifle, one of those cheap C93 clones of the HK-93 and when I try to do speedy reloading I normally stick to locking the action back first, then doing a magazine swap, then the slap. I'm wondering where the ergonomic/action advantage is in dropping the magazine first? Mind you I've drilled the way I've drilled for a few years now, so this seems really backwards to me.
It seems inefficient to remove the mag before locking the bolt back. Your hand is right there, might as well do it. As for the admin reload. I've never had an issue seating the mag on an closed bolt. Besides, you have enough time to check to see if it is properly seated.
Thanks, great tips for the next time I'm a lowly cook aboard BB-63 and terrorists try to take over while Miss July '89 prepares to hop out of a birthday cake.
is this for a precision reload or a quick reload, either way its ineffective and slow and can be done much faster in different ways. for example, pull back bolt, release mag, insert fresh mag, release bolt...or, even faster, index mag, release old, insert new in same motion and then charge weapon...gets rid of slow pointless steps. im just curious as to why use this method really
Cool want one. Now,... why not after extracting mag (with the desire to retain the mag, important note), you do the charging handle work backward (yes with extracted mag in hand), then pocket the mag, at that point your hand is near your full mag and of course pull from its location, install and then your hand is near the action leaver. Move the carrier handle forward. After that,... fun, fun play time or,... danger, read-up, work, work, depending upon the desire of the need. This is a theory as I have never ran one,... but will.
Hi James, I own an MP5SD but can't seem to find any mounts for a flashlight. What accessory are you using to mount that light and do you encounter any issues with the suppressor heating up the mount and flashlight? Thanks!
tomtomtheninja Not on a roller delayed system, no; it needs the full bolt travel to seat a cartridge in the chamber. A press check risks putting it out of battery.
You "press check" the same way with the AR rifle without opening the bolt by removing and looking at the magazine once you send the bolt home. Simply note which side your top ammo is at before inserting. Then you remove the mag and your new top ammo will be on the opposite side of the magazine. Left/Right on your ammo position. Not sure what you mean by proactive reload, but I think if you are referring to a "tactical reload", you just simply exchange the magazines out. No need to press check anything. If you are still not sure if you have anything chambered, then proceed as an administrative task of unloading and loading your MP5.
BTT Media Got it. And yes I mean tactical. I was just being consistent to how he described it in the video as "proactive reloads" and "immediate reloads" for speed reloads.
I like the mp5 but when you can get a Daniel defense mk18 in 556 or any 556 with a 10 to 13 inch barrel or shorter with a suppressor attached adds a 4 to 6 more inches in length but what's the point of the mp5 and I love the mp5 don't not get me wrong.
Definitely. The only people who love the MP5 are those who haven't used it or never got a chance to use anything else. An Colt AR 9 is a lot faster to manipulate. Heck, even open bolt SMGs are way faster.
This is a thing I have always thought about. Good information in these comments. Basically, mechanically possible, but highly prone to issues that can be avoided with proper reloading?
The main reason he says is because the H&K delayed blowback guns do not have a bolt lock since roller guns are very sensitive to dirt getting inside an open ejection port. For this reason you never realy know if the chamber is loaded for sure, so he locks which loses one round, but ensures he is ready to go.
![Tee Grizzley - Robbery 8 [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/34_vkNV6wrU/mqdefault.jpg)
let me grab my mp5sd real quick....
Kevin Nguyen Canadian here... Hahaha *cries*
I shot one on full auto at a range. I came in my pants.
It's ok. I am also crying in Canadian.
+TripleU I just saw how stupid it's getting for AR owners over there. What a bunch of assholes.
TripleU Time to move.
Why not lock the bolt back first?
Great stuff!
i see your point, but with this system the mag has to be removed anytime there is a malfunction, during reloads or not. if you are going for speed, cutting down on extra moments is where it's at. my 2 cents
this is exactly the kind of answer I was looking for, thank you. consistency is best!
James, why does locking the bolt to the rear first create a bigger problem during a malfunction? On every other semiautomatic weapon system (carbine, pistol, etc), you lock the bolt to the rear FIRST (at least with a double feed). Why is the mp5 different?
That is the correct Immediate Action for HK's. Cock, hook and look. See what your dealing with:
Rounds in the magazine, no rounds in the chamber.
No rounds in the magazine, no rounds in the chamber.
Rounds in the magazine, round in the chamber.
Weapon fires, weapon stops: Rip the mag out. Insert a fresh one. Cock the weapon. That's just an assumption that you know what the issue is. You may be correct, it may be an empty mag. But an empty mag should be treated like every other malfunction in an HK. Cock hook look. Perform the necessary drill based on what you see. Then slap that handle and carry on firing.
At this rate next video post by Travis is how to speed reload the M249 SAW
I'd pay to see that....
Yo! i think we would all want to see that!!
Is there a reason why you don't lock the bolt back first? I've seen a number of other instructors teach this way, and it seems to make sense since your hand is already on the forend, it's natural to sweep the charging handle. Going to the magazine and then back to the handle and then back to the mag on your belt seems to be wasting at least one motion. Then again, you're the professionals and maybe I'm missing something.
The reason is they got it wrong.
Love that sound of the SD-Version 😇
these tips helped me now i can make a proper make a reload Foley sound for a MP5
why not lock the bolt back first then change mags? wouldn't that be more efficient? you're doing mag, bolt, mag, bolt, fire. why not bolt, mag, mag, bolt, fire. it is the same number of actions, but you can kill 2 birds with one stone by mag swapping at the same time as opposed to back tracking to grab a mag. which should, in turn, be faster correct? I'm probably wrong, but it is making sense right now lol
No. I agree. I always do bolt back first.
it would be cool to see it back to back on a timer or something to see the difference. maybe i'll try and beat him to the punch and make one on it LOL! we can compare the difference with a professional like him and a for fun nobody shooter like me hahaha
I might do it during this weekend's class (if I remember), which might have to be done by having the other students do it both ways just to baseline the average time.
I agree on locking bolt back first being the quicker way, but if you have some kind of malfunction removing the magazine first is the way to go - and since you never know, the way shown is this clip is adviseable. Also, the split second you gain isn't really that crucial when seen in relation to the certainty you get.
I thought that was strange also. Your hand is right there, it seems inefficient doing that.
words cannot express how amazed I am at his theory with the manual of arms. It certainly makes sense. you just have to look over a few factors that most gun people would cringe at like letting a good round go to waste
Why not lock the bolt back first, then mag out/mag in ?
Thinking the same thing. Your hand is already right there
MrSomeoneIam I believe it is a just in case thing. in the event that there is a malfunction such as a double feed the mag well will be open to allow the problem to fall free when you lock the bolt open. normally you wouldn't have to stow the empty, so you're not taking your hand as far from the action.
Jesse Foust Yeah, makes sense. Thank you.
Yeah that makes more sense to me to lock back first. Not only would provide better economy of motion (hand moves less total distance while accomplishing same tasks), it would also provide more continuity in training since clearing a double feed would be almost exactly the same.
Someone with real experience please correct us if we are wrong.
Plain and simple, the MP5 series suck. The only people who like them are those who never owned or used one, or those whose only experience with SMGs are the MP5.
By the way, personally I am not sure since I come from open bolt experience so my first instinct is to pull the bolt back before I do anything else, but many strip the magazine out even with M16/M4 rifles because old USGI magazines sometimes aren't drop free. The instructions to strip magazine then lock bolt back may be due to the attempt to preserve this instinct. Personally I think it is pointless. You aren't shooting an M16, you are shooting an MP5 which operates and feels different. We should train for the most optimal method for the weapon we are using, not a one size fits all approach.
empty- pull handle back - remove magazine - reload new magazine - slap handle forward.
So my understanding is that recommending doing this method it creates muscle memory.. for standard reloading and malfunction clearing, but at the cost of speed from not locking the bolt back first.
Oh good; so many of us have MP5s, but lack training. I like these videos with broad, populist appeal. Everyman videos, if you will.
Gavin Kisebach lol
Thank you for another no b.s. video! Great info.
The sequence make more sense if you make the cocking/locking action the very last sequence.
I.E: OFF, (take Mag out), Insert Fresh Mag in, then Rack to chamber it. ~ That way you are saving time by eliminating one step (pulling cocking lever and locking it)
Why would the bolt not be locked back first, while the support hand is right next to it, then the hand would only have a single movement down to the belt line to retain the magazine and grab a new one, instead of doing it the way shown, where you go from having your hand on the gun to reaching to the magazine supply/storage area of your gear twice?
Seems like locking the bolt back, swapping mags, and then charging the weapon would be much more efficient in terms of total amounts of movements made, with no downsides at all, unless in missing something?
The downside is that if you encounter a malfunction, you need to first remove the mag then clear the malfunction.
Building muscle memory for only one series of manipulations is more efficient.
i swear i did not see this question before i posted mine. i thought the same exact thing!
you have a valid point there, but that would be at any time though with a malfunction. not just during mag changes so it is kind of a moot point. if you are going for speed, cutting down on extra movements is the way to go when any time there is a malfunction the mag will likely have to be removed. my 2 cents.
Steve_MP5 do it with a timer. you'll see that the method demonstrated here without stowing the empty mag, is not slower, in general.
I asked the same thing under their FB video and didn't get a satisfactory answer
PROTIP.: There are some people with "magazine problems". As a german i can tell you there is a solution to your magazine problem. Stop giving the magazine a push after the insert, simply pull it a little to your body after you indert it so it can lock in place. Thats all insert and pull the magazine to your body.
great video
Thnks for the video really helpful
Agree on the method. Surprised the "HK slap" paranoia about breaking the charging handle wasn't addressed, but it seems to be on old models only. Unfortunately at the matches I have shot, I'm never proactive at the right time and go click instead of bang.
That's an airsoft thing.
I would think you could reload the MP5 Sort of like an AK: After locking the bolt back, Grip a fresh magazine in your hand, hit the mag release with your thumb and pull out the old magazine, drop it, slide the new mag in. Then Hit the bolt and send it forwards. For a Tactical reload, just don't discard the old magazine.
But can this be done with only gross motor skills?
I've got a HK style rifle, one of those cheap C93 clones of the HK-93 and when I try to do speedy reloading I normally stick to locking the action back first, then doing a magazine swap, then the slap.
I'm wondering where the ergonomic/action advantage is in dropping the magazine first? Mind you I've drilled the way I've drilled for a few years now, so this seems really backwards to me.
Its funny the MP5 is still THE standard when it comes to SMG even though it is so old by now.
How do you have the light mounted to the SD fore end?
ShooterSD72 did you find out?
It seems inefficient to remove the mag before locking the bolt back. Your hand is right there, might as well do it.
As for the admin reload. I've never had an issue seating the mag on an closed bolt. Besides, you have enough time to check to see if it is properly seated.
He said "Adapt"!
Good shit.
I was about to say SHOOT IT! And then you did... perfect
just out of curiosity why not just swap mags and then cycle the action? Why bother locking the bolt open?
is that the sd or the carnik con sdq version...super duper quiet
left handed mp5 reload please.
Take a look at this video. Running the MP5 left handed, and you can see my reloads towards the end, bolt back first. ~ instagram.com/p/BR0DUzhBY0r/
Thanks, great tips for the next time I'm a lowly cook aboard BB-63 and terrorists try to take over while Miss July '89 prepares to hop out of a birthday cake.
Mechanic remember "you also cook"
How do you know you are out of ammunition or you just did not have a failure to fire or a failure to feed?
Would love to reload one of these in California... oh wait.
Why do you pull the magazine before locking the bolt back? I usually see it the other way.
is this for a precision reload or a quick reload, either way its ineffective and slow and can be done much faster in different ways. for example, pull back bolt, release mag, insert fresh mag, release bolt...or, even faster, index mag, release old, insert new in same motion and then charge weapon...gets rid of slow pointless steps. im just curious as to why use this method really
I take off the charger, I put the new loader and then reset. And 'much faster. I'm wrong?
Cool want one. Now,... why not after extracting mag (with the desire to retain the mag, important note), you do the charging handle work backward (yes with extracted mag in hand), then pocket the mag, at that point your hand is near your full mag and of course pull from its location, install and then your hand is near the action leaver. Move the carrier handle forward. After that,... fun, fun play time or,... danger, read-up, work, work, depending upon the desire of the need. This is a theory as I have never ran one,... but will.
Hi James, I own an MP5SD but can't seem to find any mounts for a flashlight. What accessory are you using to mount that light and do you encounter any issues with the suppressor heating up the mount and flashlight? Thanks!
Marty Martinez I Wonder too. Did you find a way?
I alway just ran it like an ak. mag out, fresh mag in, run the bolt.
Subguns they are hot right now.Subguns.
Rey Van I see what you did there
Ahh yes, the Project Reality reload
Just press R.
What light and light mount are you using?
Why bother locking the bolt? why not just insert the mag and rack the bolt? Does it make it harder to seat the mag like a full 30 in an AR?
Inserting a loaded mag (even when downloaded to 28 rounds) on a closed bolt with the MP5 is a lot harder than with an AR15.
Is there no a way to just press check before a proactive reload?
tomtomtheninja Not on a roller delayed system, no; it needs the full bolt travel to seat a cartridge in the chamber. A press check risks putting it out of battery.
JonMacFhearghuis ohhh okay. Thanks for the insight.
You "press check" the same way with the AR rifle without opening the bolt by removing and looking at the magazine once you send the bolt home. Simply note which side your top ammo is at before inserting. Then you remove the mag and your new top ammo will be on the opposite side of the magazine. Left/Right on your ammo position.
Not sure what you mean by proactive reload, but I think if you are referring to a "tactical reload", you just simply exchange the magazines out. No need to press check anything.
If you are still not sure if you have anything chambered, then proceed as an administrative task of unloading and loading your MP5.
BTT Media Got it. And yes I mean tactical. I was just being consistent to how he described it in the video as "proactive reloads" and "immediate reloads" for speed reloads.
Please repeat, left-handed. Thanks.
I thought HK Slap wasn't recommended
Narkan By whom? It's in the freaking manual.
more sub gun content!! :D
Easy just press "R"
Who's still running MP5s anyway?
sasquatch4liffee more than you know
I like the mp5 but when you can get a Daniel defense mk18 in 556 or any 556 with a 10 to 13 inch barrel or shorter with a suppressor attached adds a 4 to 6 more inches in length but what's the point of the mp5 and I love the mp5 don't not get me wrong.
Spartan 04 It's still pretty loud with a suppressor. Getting a mk18-type and an MP5 is the one and only answer.
MP5: inferior in just about every way to an M4
Definitely. The only people who love the MP5 are those who haven't used it or never got a chance to use anything else. An Colt AR 9 is a lot faster to manipulate. Heck, even open bolt SMGs are way faster.
Said loser who never hold a gun in his life.
back, off/on, slap.. you are wasting motion.
Really????
Too complicated, in rack bang.
Slooooooooow
goofy ahh reload
Why wouldn't you just swap out the magazines, then cycle the charging handle?
lj5732 Because its a bitch to seat a full MP5 magazine on a closed bolt
Thanks for the info!
This is a thing I have always thought about. Good information in these comments.
Basically, mechanically possible, but highly prone to issues that can be avoided with proper reloading?
The main reason he says is because the H&K delayed blowback guns do not have a bolt lock since roller guns are very sensitive to dirt getting inside an open ejection port. For this reason you never realy know if the chamber is loaded for sure, so he locks which loses one round, but ensures he is ready to go.