Although I don't listen to much Dream Theater anymore, still gotta give it to "A Nightmare to Remember". Goes to show how you can make a 16 min.-epic with just 3 riffs, basically.
Ive been waiting for this topic. I love classic Prog where it really does just seem like the song is constantly evolving and rarely revisit the same part twice.
Thank you for this Trey! Been playing for a solid while now, and I think it's finally time to develop some real songwriting chops, so breakdowns like this are absolutely invaluable! Might have to blow my tax return on that songwriting course of yours. p.s. Your vocals during that first bridge 100% reminded me of Russell Allen, which is like the highest compliment I could give a singer tbh.
18:58 "The concept is amazing song-writing." Lol, total throwback to the days of my old metal-band, when we tried to come up with something with the same theme in mind. Good to see someone else doing it a lot better, and putting it out to the world. Looking forward to the album then.^^
I love this! Andy Gillion did something similar to this by diving into his DAW and showing all the layers in the songs off of the newest MPE album Seven. I love the insight into his creative process and l love this video for the same reason.
Great video! I totally agree! Every repeated part should grow in some way. I approach my basslines like that also.I guess that lets my prog side come out we only have one guitar player so I get a lot of room to play around
Hey man, this comment is unrelated to the video, but posting this on most recent viodeo because I really hope you will see this. I am doing your RelationShapes course on udemy. Man thank you so much. Im going to sound like a shill to everyone reading but the first two lessons have changed my life. I spent alot of money on buying the different "secret to fretboard mastery" courses .Nothing ever clicked, you just absolutely blew my brain. After about an hour of playing around with the ideas you explain, i started doing some improvising and I have finally ascended to where ive been trying to get all this time. Ive been playing up and down the neck for the last 6 hours because I can not stop my hand is absolutely f#@$#D, my face hurts from smiling. Once again sorry for the non related comment but I really wanted to say Thank you man, from the bottom of my heart. You let me achieve what i have been trying to do for the last 6 months in basically an hour. THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU!!!
Damn dude, I am super happy to hear that, it's exactly the reason I created the course in the first place. Please do share it around, I'd appreciate that a lot!
I like the laundry song, nice to see how you put it together. Purgatory and Where the edges meet are both jams and kinda remind me of Scar Symmetry. You do yourself a disservice when you say your not a good singer, your voice sounds great on both those tracks. I'd be interested in hearing about writing longer songs, and if it's possible to write compelling metal songs that are through composed, or have 'movement' based structures like classical or sound track pieces.
I have no idea how does the algorithm work. But if you put “purgatory” in search there’s no way you get the band “in vertue”. You’ll find a bunch of random videos with 1-2,5k views uploaded several years ago. You keep scrolling down and RUclips stops showing you “purgatory” after 7-9 videos at all. So to find a right one, you need to put full name of the band and song. Well done! Me: “Keywords?” RUclips: “oi mate! Sucka ma Landanna baws!”
Technically, "progressive" actually refers to that abcdef song structure originally, not a bands innovative qualities. The structure is progressive, not the band.
None of my songs have a conventional structure, but not cuz I’m trying to be ‘that’ guy, I literally just can’t write within the confines of the standard structure haha 😅 Probably why my music wont ever be popular, but I do ever so love it, all the same! 😌❤️
I have an interesting question. You mentioned through composed songs being bad (and generally I’d agree) but I’d be curious to know why you think it worked for Bohemian Rhapsody but generally doesn’t work for anyone else. I know the obvious answer is none of us are Queen but I still think diving into why it worked for them would make an interesting video. David Bennett touches on it a bit in his “Songs that don’t have a chorus” video (ruclips.net/video/OeApbSCslEc/видео.html) but I’d be interested to hear your take.
"Bohemian Rhapsody" is not through-composed. There's still verses & choruses in there, and if you look at it as a big picture, there's an A-B-A-form to it. And imo, the "none of us are [insert big name here]"-excuse doesn't count. If Queen can do it, anybody can do it. It just takes some imagination.
@@GitKlar hey man it’s definitely through composed. I mean just Google “is bohemian rhapsody through composed?” And you’ll find a ton of sites using it as a notable example of a popular through composed song. The different parts do not repeat once the finish. Not only do the sections not repeat but it changes genre in every section. There’s definitely no chorus. If you really think I’m wrong show me a whole part that repeats throughout the song.
@@deadSalesman_GD no problem. Just so we're on the same page, I’m referencing the music-video-version; ruclips.net/video/fJ9rUzIMcZQ/видео.html. - 0:50 repeats at 1:50 - those are your verses - 1:24 repeats at 2:23 & 4:56 - those are your choruses (which also serve for the solos) As far as sections go, start to 3:04 is the A-section, 3:04 to 4:56 is the B, and 4:56 to end is the A again. Sure, the B-section goes a little wild (there are definitely no repeating parts there), and the intro is kind of unrelated to the rest of the song. But you can’t say, the song has no verses or choruses. They just spice up the chord-progressions on the second & last gos, to enhance the flow of the song, but you can still recognize those parts by the beginning of the chord-progression. The choruses always begin with the same 3 chords (Ebmaj-Bbmaj/D-Cmin), which gives the song a cohesive thread, even though a lot around it changes over time. Lyrically, both choruses with vocals start with “Mama”, so that’s another hint. If people are saying, the B-section is through-composed, that's definitely true. The whole song? Not so much.
@@GitKlar the 0:50 and 1:50 verses have different melodies and lyrics. The “mama oooh” is one line. That’s not a chorus. Through composed songs definitely have verses. I’m not denying that bohemian rhapsody has verses. But it definitely does not have a chorus. That one line is just used in multiple verses like the line “God Save the Queen” in the British national anthem. It’s definitely not an ABA for as well considering the song does not have the same chord progression throughout even when transposed to all of the different keys it modulates through. Here’s a link to a theory analysis of the song: ruclips.net/video/XQb827N6oww/видео.html Bohemian rhapsody has five sections. The chorale, the ballad, the opera, the rock section, and the coda. All of those sections. Musical material repeats within sections but once a section ends it never comes back. Also Bohemian Rhapsody is just that, a Rhapsody, and rhapsody’s are by definition through composed. Again this can be corroborated through a quick Google search of “is bohemian rhapsody a rhapsody?” or the aforementioned “is bohemian rhapsody through composed?”
@@deadSalesman_GD it doesn't matter if the melodies & lyrics change. The accompaniment remains similar in a lot of ways, that's why I'd say it has repeating sections. Looking at "Bohemian Rhapsody" as a rhapsody is also just one way of doing it. There's also the idea of viewing it as a monomyth, as pointed out by Andy Kneis. That's were the A-B-A-structure comes from, which I've mentioned before. To me at least, that definition of the structure makes a lot more sense. The song has just too much structure for me to consider it through-composed. Which way of looking at it is the "right" way is obviously up to debate, and could take on forever.
This is the definition of someone who thinks they know stuff because they studied but ends up just saying dadrock bullshit like "you cant even dance to that theres no chorus memememe"
okay, we can also add some vibes from protest the hero - hair trigger. but i don't want to be counted as some non-conformist youtube commenter. it's nickelback all the way.
Sorry I probably was a bit brutal on that comment I was drunk and I have a bad day. But to be honest I listened to your stuff it good but too predictebale. So on that I would love to see you try to make the least predictebale song whit out making a riff salad
What song has the most UNUSUAL but cohesive song structure?
Although I don't listen to much Dream Theater anymore, still gotta give it to "A Nightmare to Remember". Goes to show how you can make a 16 min.-epic with just 3 riffs, basically.
Basically everything that between the buried and me has ever written!
Paranoid Android. Total peak weird song structure that works.
Guns n' Roses Estranged, or Coma.
Even if the style is a bit outdated.
Iron Maiden - "Rime of the Ancient Mariner"
Thank you for running through this song's development process. Also, huge congrats on not sounding like a schmuck while talking about your own music.
thanks I was able to hide my schmuckness pretty well I think
I love how the channel called "Gear Gods" does barely any gear reviews and focuses on song writing these days. Great change in direction.
Ive been waiting for this topic. I love classic Prog where it really does just seem like the song is constantly evolving and rarely revisit the same part twice.
Idk I think Yes has some pretty repetitive songs, while changing the motifs slightly
Thank you for this Trey! Been playing for a solid while now, and I think it's finally time to develop some real songwriting chops, so breakdowns like this are absolutely invaluable! Might have to blow my tax return on that songwriting course of yours.
p.s. Your vocals during that first bridge 100% reminded me of Russell Allen, which is like the highest compliment I could give a singer tbh.
Damn, that's high praise, he's my #1 favorite hahaha, thank you!
18:58 "The concept is amazing song-writing."
Lol, total throwback to the days of my old metal-band, when we tried to come up with something with the same theme in mind.
Good to see someone else doing it a lot better, and putting it out to the world. Looking forward to the album then.^^
Great breakdown of the tune and your thought process, Trey! Those vocals are killer by the way!
The first bridge sounds really Symphony X to me. And yes, it's my favourite part of the song.
I love this! Andy Gillion did something similar to this by diving into his DAW and showing all the layers in the songs off of the newest MPE album Seven. I love the insight into his creative process and l love this video for the same reason.
Awesome video Trey! Thank you!
Kinda reminds me of RX Bandits with the clean vocals, in a really good way! Voice sounds real good man.
Since I got gonged so badly, THIS is so valuable. Thanks, Trey! ❤️
Great video! I totally agree! Every repeated part should grow in some way. I approach my basslines like that also.I guess that lets my prog side come out we only have one guitar player so I get a lot of room to play around
Hey man, this comment is unrelated to the video, but posting this on most recent viodeo because I really hope you will see this. I am doing your RelationShapes course on udemy. Man thank you so much. Im going to sound like a shill to everyone reading but the first two lessons have changed my life. I spent alot of money on buying the different "secret to fretboard mastery" courses .Nothing ever clicked, you just absolutely blew my brain. After about an hour of playing around with the ideas you explain, i started doing some improvising and I have finally ascended to where ive been trying to get all this time. Ive been playing up and down the neck for the last 6 hours because I can not stop my hand is absolutely f#@$#D, my face hurts from smiling. Once again sorry for the non related comment but I really wanted to say Thank you man, from the bottom of my heart. You let me achieve what i have been trying to do for the last 6 months in basically an hour. THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU!!!
Damn dude, I am super happy to hear that, it's exactly the reason I created the course in the first place. Please do share it around, I'd appreciate that a lot!
this is so helpful
I like the laundry song, nice to see how you put it together. Purgatory and Where the edges meet are both jams and kinda remind me of Scar Symmetry. You do yourself a disservice when you say your not a good singer, your voice sounds great on both those tracks.
I'd be interested in hearing about writing longer songs, and if it's possible to write compelling metal songs that are through composed, or have 'movement' based structures like classical or sound track pieces.
Always enjoy a look into people’s creative process. Thanks for sharing your thought process for this
11:48 How beautiful sounds the voice!
Thank you! That was useful
Lol, your vocals on the first bridge is so alike of Russel Allen.
Damn that’s high praise, he’s the absolute best
This was awesome, that song was fucking epic and I loved it
thanks fam!
Gear Gods No problem dude, always love watching your songwriting videos so I can’t wait to hear the full album version
5:44 The Wilhelm Scream lives on! Yuss! 😆
will poor Wilhelm ever be allowed to truly die
@@treyxaviermusic - He will be immortal.
Love this type of vids.
Trey has a nack for teaching music theory
More In Virtue tracks when? You guys have a great sound.
It's so cool seeing the process! Also... Don't give up on those leather pants just yet!
Your songwriting is so creative and well thought out! Thank you for sharing your songwriting tips with us!
You are so welcome!
Trey, thank you. There’s more info here than we know.
It reminds me of Persuader/Savage Circus, very catchy.
One of the best bands to do "weird" song structures is Between the Buried and Me
Damn dude that shit's fresh. 👌
Ever heard of noisecore mr. Know-it-all?
I have no idea how does the algorithm work. But if you put “purgatory” in search there’s no way you get the band “in vertue”. You’ll find a bunch of random videos with 1-2,5k views uploaded several years ago. You keep scrolling down and RUclips stops showing you “purgatory” after 7-9 videos at all. So to find a right one, you need to put full name of the band and song. Well done!
Me: “Keywords?”
RUclips: “oi mate! Sucka ma Landanna baws!”
well purgatory is a pretty common word, probably not the best choice from an SEO perspective but I wasn't thinking that when I wrote it hahaha
but I put the link at the end anyway
dope
Kirk Hammet: Wah-ter bottle?
"you from London mate?"😆🤘
Is that ezmix 2 andy sneap expansion addictive preset...learning alot
Technically, "progressive" actually refers to that abcdef song structure originally, not a bands innovative qualities. The structure is progressive, not the band.
None of my songs have a conventional structure, but not cuz I’m trying to be ‘that’ guy, I literally just can’t write within the confines of the standard structure haha 😅
Probably why my music wont ever be popular, but I do ever so love it, all the same! 😌❤️
as long as its great music, it doesnt matter man. keep it up! you might be surprised.
8:06 is that Till Lindemann on the left channel? 🤣
I have an interesting question. You mentioned through composed songs being bad (and generally I’d agree) but I’d be curious to know why you think it worked for Bohemian Rhapsody but generally doesn’t work for anyone else. I know the obvious answer is none of us are Queen but I still think diving into why it worked for them would make an interesting video. David Bennett touches on it a bit in his “Songs that don’t have a chorus” video (ruclips.net/video/OeApbSCslEc/видео.html) but I’d be interested to hear your take.
"Bohemian Rhapsody" is not through-composed.
There's still verses & choruses in there, and if you look at it as a big picture, there's an A-B-A-form to it.
And imo, the "none of us are [insert big name here]"-excuse doesn't count. If Queen can do it, anybody can do it. It just takes some imagination.
@@GitKlar hey man it’s definitely through composed. I mean just Google “is bohemian rhapsody through composed?” And you’ll find a ton of sites using it as a notable example of a popular through composed song. The different parts do not repeat once the finish. Not only do the sections not repeat but it changes genre in every section. There’s definitely no chorus. If you really think I’m wrong show me a whole part that repeats throughout the song.
@@deadSalesman_GD no problem. Just so we're on the same page, I’m referencing the music-video-version; ruclips.net/video/fJ9rUzIMcZQ/видео.html.
- 0:50 repeats at 1:50 - those are your verses
- 1:24 repeats at 2:23 & 4:56 - those are your choruses (which also serve for the solos)
As far as sections go, start to 3:04 is the A-section, 3:04 to 4:56 is the B, and 4:56 to end is the A again.
Sure, the B-section goes a little wild (there are definitely no repeating parts there), and the intro is kind of unrelated to the rest of the song.
But you can’t say, the song has no verses or choruses. They just spice up the chord-progressions on the second & last gos, to enhance the flow of the song, but you can still recognize those parts by the beginning of the chord-progression. The choruses always begin with the same 3 chords (Ebmaj-Bbmaj/D-Cmin), which gives the song a cohesive thread, even though a lot around it changes over time. Lyrically, both choruses with vocals start with “Mama”, so that’s another hint.
If people are saying, the B-section is through-composed, that's definitely true. The whole song? Not so much.
@@GitKlar the 0:50 and 1:50 verses have different melodies and lyrics. The “mama oooh” is one line. That’s not a chorus. Through composed songs definitely have verses. I’m not denying that bohemian rhapsody has verses. But it definitely does not have a chorus. That one line is just used in multiple verses like the line “God Save the Queen” in the British national anthem. It’s definitely not an ABA for as well considering the song does not have the same chord progression throughout even when transposed to all of the different keys it modulates through. Here’s a link to a theory analysis of the song: ruclips.net/video/XQb827N6oww/видео.html Bohemian rhapsody has five sections. The chorale, the ballad, the opera, the rock section, and the coda. All of those sections. Musical material repeats within sections but once a section ends it never comes back. Also Bohemian Rhapsody is just that, a Rhapsody, and rhapsody’s are by definition through composed. Again this can be corroborated through a quick Google search of “is bohemian rhapsody a rhapsody?” or the aforementioned “is bohemian rhapsody through composed?”
@@deadSalesman_GD it doesn't matter if the melodies & lyrics change. The accompaniment remains similar in a lot of ways, that's why I'd say it has repeating sections.
Looking at "Bohemian Rhapsody" as a rhapsody is also just one way of doing it. There's also the idea of viewing it as a monomyth, as pointed out by Andy Kneis. That's were the A-B-A-structure comes from, which I've mentioned before.
To me at least, that definition of the structure makes a lot more sense. The song has just too much structure for me to consider it through-composed.
Which way of looking at it is the "right" way is obviously up to debate, and could take on forever.
Oh heartless lol
Seal Kiss From a Rose
I think that's just one long bridge 😭
So funny, great stuff!!!
This is a great song. It must sting like hell your Gear Gods channel has more success than your actual art but take your blessings.
This is the definition of someone who thinks they know stuff because they studied but ends up just saying dadrock bullshit like "you cant even dance to that theres no chorus memememe"
nickelback influences are all over this song
That’s not all. Love that sweet Symphony of Destruction bassline near the beginning.
I only listen to Nickelback so that tracks
okay, we can also add some vibes from protest the hero - hair trigger. but i don't want to be counted as some non-conformist youtube commenter. it's nickelback all the way.
I'm sorry to say that normally I don't leave negative comments but your righting skills doesn't impresse me so...
That’s fine, I don’t expect to hit everyone’s personal taste preferences, no one ever does
Sorry I probably was a bit brutal on that comment I was drunk and I have a bad day.
But to be honest I listened to your stuff it good but too predictebale.
So on that I would love to see you try to make the least predictebale song whit out making a riff salad
Just curious, who's writing does impress you, if this doesn't?
If you can't just hum it to me I'm out...lol 😉
I never learned to hum
FIRST
FOURTH HA
that was the number I was thinking of, you win this reply
@@treyxaviermusic WOOOO!!!!!!YEAH!!!!LOL
Alright what do I win 🤣