Stop RUINING Your Songs With BAD Repetition!
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- Опубликовано: 22 мар 2023
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My course, Complete Rock and Metal Songwriting: bit.ly/WRITETHATSONG
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Edited by Rikard Tholen
Tracks mixed and mastered by @ErikSeime
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A man named Ted exists.
Sometimes Ted talks
I think Ted is pretty cool.
How is this post from 2 days ago?
@@simulacrumad uploaded privately then posted public
@@tophertaylor68 thanks
Love that this channel focuses so much on song writing. Nobody else is doing this. Trey knows his shit
I'm way more interested in Elizabeth than Ted. I get it, he exists. What's Elizabeth's deal?
I think Scenes from a Memory (and Dream Theater in general) have great examples of this. There are so many musical references to Metropolis pt 1 that go straight over your head on your first listen because something important has changed. Like how the pre-verse Metropolis riff is basically the chorus riff in Home, but tuned lower in a drop D song. Or how the Regression melody is repeated towards the end in The Spirit Carries On, just in a higher octave with the full band.
Any time you can repeat something, change it up at least a little!
I'm not a musician (I _try_ to sing, but that's about it), but I really appreciate these insights into songwriting that we get from Trey, not only because I love music - and knowing more about songwriting helps me understand _why_ I like certain songs, and makes me appreciate them even more - but also because songwriting is basically a very extreme form of storytelling, and some of the insights I've gotten watching these videos (and the songwriting contest ones, too) have been *incredibly* helpful in increasing the versatility of my writing. There's just enough overlap between writing stories and writing songs that almost any good advice for one can apply to the other, but just enough of a difference that some of that advice is going to make you think about the endeavour in ways you'd likely never consider otherwise.
So good. You have a great way of explaining things that people, like me, overthink.
You're a gem! This same principle is true in every aspect of our lives. I'd love to see this topic coming up in your podcast. Maybe drawing a parallel between consistency, psychology and creativity? With a guest like Julian Peterson, being a musician and the son of an immensely potent psychologist e.g? 😉 you two gon hit it off! Thank you Trey! You're the motivation that pushes me to get my butt, where my heart has always been at! 🙏
It feels like wading through all your submissions made you find your calling in this topic. And not only that but you did great justice to the video essay format and I love it.
It inspires me in so many ways, mainly to give up and pursue dentistry
"Thanks for coming to my Ted talk." Trey, if he knew how the internet worked
I do feel dumb for missing this one hahahhaa
Excellent execution of the topic, man, well done!
Repetition legitimizes indeed. Trey's Video Structure:
Intro: A man named Ted exists.
Verse 1: Lesson/Talking Points
Pre-Chorus: Bogren Digital plugins are amazing.
Chorus: A man named Ted exists. Things are happening to Ted.
Verse 2: Lesson/Talking Points
Pre-Chorus: Bogren Digital plugins are amazing (expanded)
Chorus: A man named Ted exists. His story continues.
Verse, Pre-Chorus, Chorus again, and so on.
Well done Trey! You took us on a journey and held my attention for 15+ minutes.
Super well-communicated and clean. Gems on gems. Keep it up ❤️
This is an extremely underrated (new) video! I love how well you explained how i play with riffs in a way that allows me to actually articulate it better and understand myself better.
Thank you very much for this.. this changes alot when i Look at my writing now!
"It never happens again throughout the rest of the song"
Sometimes I love this. When done well I'll listen to the song over and over again.
Really good topic, and all the stuff that everyone needs to hear.
Nice and to the point. Thank you!
Always felt like in most metal music the best parts are intro, outro and especially middle-8 sections... 9 out of 10 times if the rest of the song was cut (just keep intro, middle-8, outro) it'd be an absolute BANGER!!!
Oh man, I so needed to see this video. I'm guilty of repeating riffs, so development is definitely where I'm lacking. Looks like I have some work to do. Thanks for the tips, Trey!
Devil Wears Prada's most recent album Color Decay exemplifies this topic perfectly. So many good riffs that are repeated an adequate number of times on that album.
Everything about this channel is amazing. From the editing to the thoughtful and methodological approach to music composition, as well as the way it's explained in a digestible manner.
Thank you!
Trey, I admire your excellence in songwriting and especially your vocal abilities and layering! Awesome!
I was given this tip when I submitted my ‘song sketch’. It’s a big help.
This is such a good video. Wow. Very well explained and illustrated.
That was a really creative, well thought out, well taught lesson. Thanks Trey
I hope to one day make a good song
Trey you are awesome...you teach in such a great way...and that helps me to realize, I have way more work to do, to write better songs lol
1:24 literally just bought Sonic Frontiers the other day.
Great video again, like this delivery a lot. Keep it up.
Great content Trey. Love your shit, super useful and inspiring
This was fantastic! I don't think I've seen any video on songwriting topic explained in more clear terms than in this video. Bravo Trey!
One of your best vids.... You are a good educator Trey.
Trey, this was freaking beautiful. This was a work of scholarship. Meshuggah has songs where the polyrhythm throughout resolves into a straight-four drive at the end; e.g. Discordant System at the 8min mark. And it is just heavy as hell. Thanks for teaching a master class today. And please, give Ted my best wishes.
Trey would gong that shit immediately if it was from a new artist
Good stuff Trey! You seriously nailed something that modern tunes do and it’s why so many new tunes suck balls! Making music unique makes it real!
Really good break down on this episode good job Trey
Hook me and Sara up
I feel this is a follow up to your video about If Darkness Had A Son.
You better believe it is hahaha
Yeah lol. That song is literally 6-7 min copy paste.
And all the fans be like: "It's the greatest thing ever! Metallica is so good!"
Lol. I think mass fans just likes everything mainstream bands feed them.
Totally agree and thanks for the insights. But isnt it Kinda scary in the same time how many Mainstreams music just copy pastes parts with commercial success? I think the Problem is that Superb production can kinda charm minds to listen to crappy written songs.
I think this is a first time comment. This got me thinking for a bit, and here's my thoughts. This right here is one of the reasons why I really appreciate Conor Oberst's songwriting. While it's not the case in every song, the songs that I always go back to happen to feature chorus repetition (lyrically) that is always slightly different but has the same feeling or pattern. It makes you want to keep listening to the song to see what else the chorus has to say. A lot of songs put me off immediately because I know that they're just going to repeat the same chorus two or three times with no change, even when the verse and/or bridge have changed the setting dramatically. A chorus example from Four Winds off of Cassadaga by Bright Eyes (Conor Oberst), featuring three choruses, the latter wrapping up the two former:
"But when great Satan's gone
The Whore of Babylon
She just can't sustain
The pressure where it's placed
She caves"
"And it's the son of man
Slouching towards Bethlehem
A heart just can't contain
All of that empty space
It breaks, it breaks, it breaks"
"But when great Satan's gone
The whore of Babylon
But, she just can't remain
With all that outer space
She breaks, she breaks, she caves, she caves"
Anyway, long comment, but I always get drawn into songs that can creatively flex choruses out while remaining somewhat repetetive. A song is like watching someone grow up in front of you in a few minutes. A song grows. If there aren't additional details, or changed aspects, then the song never grew, it just stayed the same. Like you're cousin who never left home and works at the same gas station they did when they were 16.
Great video! The story of Ted almost had me tearing up there for a moment! Brovo
RIP Elizabeth
@Trey Xavier please do the video on writing lyrics ❤
Man, I love the finish on that guitar. Theodore exists.
I would have never clicked on the vid but that Ted hook really intrigued me, so now I’m here hoping to be impressed.
I think that I should point out real fast that I’ve noticed a lot of very long songs are extremely well structured. Two examples of songs that are adored by the respective band’s fan base:
Porcupine Tree’s 12 minute epic Arriving Somewhere But Not Here is almost completely defined by a verse-chorus structure (long verses and choruses, but verse-chorus nonetheless).
In contrast, The Cure’s 8-minute classic Pictures of You doesn’t have anything remotely resembling a verse or chorus, but instead relies on a four-bar loop that everything else in the song builds on and provides variation on.
It's so special when someone articulates concepts that you previously only understood from instinct. Even though I try to write songs keeping all of this in mind, I would never have had the ability to communicate this in such a crystal clear way with such powerful examples.
Fuckin A, Trey
¡Gracias!
I WANNA CRY FOR TED!
D:
No, but really, that was amazing. Well done.
3:33 sicccc maaaaateeeeeee
Your content is gold. P.s. Ted exists and plays the great plugins that I already purchased!
Trey,,,,,,,,,You are a Masterpiece , great information. Bomb Daddy boom good Tube videos. Heck an Old dog can learn new tricks ,hanging out with ya. Thanks man,
12:06 The riff in Combat Mosh by Lych King. You know the one. You KNOW the one. :(
I dont even care if you like his music or not, Trey dropping straight facts and such helpful knowledge.
Kinda want the full song of Repetition Legitimises lol
Seconded
In an attempt to satisfy a friend (who *does* legitimately have attention span issues), I once wrote a song that had the same vocal melodies in the verses and choruses, but different lyrics and musical arrangements each time. It turned out... not great... but was definitely an interesting challenge. 😁
Not sure if 0:38 was on purpose or not but, it definitely got my attention lol
A fun example of repetition in writing is the song Hate to Say I Told You by The Hives. theres an interview I saw with the band about it where they said 'if you repeat a riff 4 times its boring, repeat it 100x times and everyone goes crazy'.
Theres a kind of underlying joke of the song in that the only point it stops looping the riff is a brief build up where they just hang out on the subdominant so it sounds like they *might* start playing something else - but then they undercut that and just go right back to looping it. Its wilfully dumb. (subdominant > dominant > then back would be the cliche route, 1>4>5>1, but they skip the 5 completely for a complete gap, undercutting it further)
Repetition is a powerful tool when it's spelled right. Har har! Good tips man!
my man dropped the BLEGH. Always quality content
1:54 nice
Question! can EXTENDED repetition be useful!? so a number of dance tracks hit repeat beats/vibes for BARS AND BARS! so you accept it... but it suddenly changes.... you notice!?
I mean, if it works it works!
@@treyxaviermusic experimental submission incoming!
FYI - I didn't notice your typo at the beginning. Outside of that this video is really fucking great.
Oh no what typo
@@treyxaviermusic Hey your eyes were tired! @:36
Is Ted played by Richard Patrick from Filter? Hmmm....🤔
Well, that's pretty damn informative!! Too bad I knew this, all too well, when I was a teenager, but lost grasp on it as I grew older...
An example of just enough repetition would be Icon of Sin's Virtual Empire. An example of too much repetition would be a lot of Iron Maiden songs over the past 25 years as well as Seventh Son of A Seventh Son or Metallica's If Darkness Had A Son.
035, got it!
Ted was really the friends we made along the way
Legitition repeatemizes
You really raised the bar with this video. Well done!
0:38 Reptetition
ah fuck
1:52
"Knobs".
I tried the knobs and they sound so shit on my part.
What may be the problem??? Wtf
I dunno man, there’s almost no way to fuck it up it only has one knob hahahaha
Now I’m starting to wonder if I exist or I’m just a repetition
I'm not saying you're a Cylon, but it's worth checking
Another gem of a tutorial and really well demonstrated. Thanks Trey and Hoobs again for sharing this one.
And I definitely agree that repetition if used wrong is terrible. Terrible terrible terrible. 😀😉
Wow wow
F in the chat for my guy Ted.
best example of repetition in a song right is chocolate rain by Tay Zonday
*sees the end of the video*
OH MY GOD! WHAT DID YOU DO TO TED, YOU MONSTER?!?!?!?!
I'm looking forward to dropping a new tune on your feedback tomorrow...
This video reminds me of Enter Sandman main riff
NB : Sorry, I wrote that around thye very begining of the video
NB2 : Poor Ted
The ammount of times we've been slammed for being poppy by "legit" metal bands because we have actual choruses and melody (with developing repetition). Love this content!! It kinda goes to show that people don't really watch before entering song contests because if they DID watch, then we wouldn't get riffsalad bland ass metal chonk.
"I can't stand losing, I can't, I can't, I can't stand losing, I can't, I can't, I can't stand losing, ......."
Poor Elizabeth 😢
I want to write a Doom metal song about Ted's story for my submission to the song challenge
Damn can't believe Ted is really gone... gunna miss that guy
trey i love you
I see you started filming this video at 6:57 and stopped at 10:37. Nice apple watch bro
I doxxed myself
Hey Trey, '72 Seasons' by Metallica please!!
Can’t wait for the new Natalie’s review
72 Seasons dropped an hour ago.
New Metallica!? Let's Fucking Go!
Bust off a review post haste!!
I came here to say the same thing...
Btw it's such a great song. It keeps getting better with every release!!
I know where teds wife is , Elizabeth is hanging out with Steel Panther. 🤘🏼
another great video, and poor ted.
Great advice, but music has no rules Trey 🤘🏻
I am a Ted, I am a banker, Trey you better not have seen my future!
Awwww Ted :'(
Where is the new metallicapop's song reaction?
Most riffs by Saxon, right?
Doesn't mean that they're not fun, but still.
Mmmm chili
The micro/macro section made me think Gojira Gojira Gojira Gojira Gojira. Riff + development = Gojira song.
The only Ted I've ever known is Ted from Bill and Ted"
A Man Named Ted Approves.
Some of my favorite songs are just the same riff over and over again for like 4mins.
Can you provide some examples
@@treyxaviermusicDJ Medhi - Signatune (Thomas Bangaltar Remix), Zapp and Roger - More Bounce To The Ounce, Tupac and Dr Dre - California Love, The Verve - Bittersweet Symphony, Chemical Brothers - Dissolve, Fleetwood Mac - Landslide, Corner shop - Brimful of Asha, Basement Jaxx - Where's Your Head At, Fatboy Slim - Praise You, Daft Punk - Get Lucky, White Stripes - Seven Nation Army, Mr Oizo - Flat Beat, Air - La Femme D' Argent, Eric Prydz - Call On Me,
How long do you want this list?
@@treyxaviermusicI think the DJ Medhi - Signatune (Thomas Bangaltar Edit) song is an example to take note of. Sure it's a completely different genre, but it is 4 mins of the same thing and it never feels boring and is a favorite amongst listeners. And very little is copy pasted. The riff is a little different throughout the song, particularly near the end.
"Rep-t-etition" 😬
I really appreciate this video, and it helped alot. BUT! TED WHYYYYYYYYYYY! ted plzzz!!!!!!
RIP Ted