The Secret To Writing A Great Chorus

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  • Опубликовано: 24 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 771

  • @12tone
    @12tone  3 года назад +192

    Some additional thoughts/corrections:
    1) Thanks to Mark Sundaram from The Endless Knot for reading those definitions for me! You can check out his channel about linguistics here: ruclips.net/user/Alliterative
    2) Does Have A Cigar really have a chorus, or is it more of a tag? I don't know! It's ambiguous! I'd say that, for length reasons, it's not a very prototypical chorus, but on the other hand it does have some of the other relevant qualities, so I think it's reasonable to count it.
    3) Not all choruses have repeated lyrics! My favorite example is Jackson Browne's Song For Adam, where the theme is the same and there are a few key words that recur each time but most of the actual lyrics are different.
    4) The meaning of the perspective shift in Take Me To Church is fairly ambiguous, and there's multiple reasonable interpretations. I went with the simplest one because it didn't super matter to the point I was making, but there's plenty of other ways to read it.
    5) Technically, only the first chorus is of Living On A Prayer from Gina's perspective, and the second is from Tommy's. I don't think it's clear who's singing the final chorus.

    • @wingracer1614
      @wingracer1614 3 года назад +9

      A hot dog is a taco

    • @CuzicanAerospace
      @CuzicanAerospace 3 года назад +1

      I thought I recognized that voice. :)

    • @dkerwood1
      @dkerwood1 3 года назад +1

      Interesting - I never considered that the chorus of Living On A Prayer was sung from the characters' perspective. I always took it as a general statement tossed back to the listener from the singer - We're almost there, take my/our hand and we'll make it (just like these two characters that we're singing about).

    • @Moonless_Future
      @Moonless_Future 3 года назад +1

      Re: 2) Great. Now we have to define the difference between a tag and a chorus. Might as well throw a refrain in there to increase the ambiguity.

    • @kFY514
      @kFY514 3 года назад

      From my experience, in Japanese pop and rock the lyrics rarely repeat straight up in choruses, yet Japanese choruses are still very chorus-y in most other regards.

  • @austinberner31
    @austinberner31 3 года назад +884

    My two favorite guides:
    1. A chorus is what the audience sings back to you
    2. The verse is what’s happening, the chorus is how you feel about it

    • @saltybutsain6348
      @saltybutsain6348 3 года назад +16

      Damn I never thought of it that way but that makes so much sense.Did you come up with this?

    • @jessehammer123
      @jessehammer123 3 года назад +14

      I know the second one, but that fascinating first one is new to me.

    • @inspxre_amiyah
      @inspxre_amiyah 3 года назад +8

      the second one made me say.. OooOOoOoO

    • @sushio4247
      @sushio4247 2 года назад +8

      Vulfpeck - Dean Town .... What if the audience sings bassline?

    • @jeffrey.a.hanson
      @jeffrey.a.hanson 2 года назад +16

      I’d add-
      3. The pre-chorus poses the dilemma.
      4. The bridge is a reflective statement or observation.
      * If used, a final alternate chorus is what you or the character has concluded.
      This is intended to build upon your perfect explanation of verse and chorus, and to be of help to songwriters.

  • @guitarwally1
    @guitarwally1 3 года назад +1427

    I once wrote a song with a chorus that keeps building. Like the first time you hear it, its one line; second time its two lines; and only at the end you get the full climax chorus. I mean, it sucked hard, but I still thought it was fun idea.

    • @loganwheeler1769
      @loganwheeler1769 3 года назад +110

      Try checking out Waves of Loneliness by Jon Bellion
      That's the best example of how you can build a chorus in that way while it still feels complete every time in my opinion

    • @guitarwally1
      @guitarwally1 3 года назад +73

      @@loganwheeler1769 Thanks for the recommendation. Nice song and you are right. The chorus feels different every time but is still the center point of the song

    • @nachfullbarertrank5230
      @nachfullbarertrank5230 3 года назад +35

      Why We Build The Wall from Hadestown also does a similar thing, fitting with the name/theme of the song

    • @guitarwally1
      @guitarwally1 3 года назад +18

      @@nachfullbarertrank5230 Hmm, although a nice song, it kind of looses the sense of a chorus. It is more of a call and response built up nicely done. My song was similar to such a thing only with verses in between.

    • @cyanhallows7809
      @cyanhallows7809 3 года назад +11

      That is very common, no? Not unusual for pop songs introduce more instruments to intensify the final/later chorus(es)

  • @MikeMastropierro
    @MikeMastropierro 3 года назад +121

    Another cool description to add to the prototypes:
    Verse: the story of the song
    Chorus: the emotion of the song

    • @rateeightx
      @rateeightx 2 года назад +5

      I always thought it would be fun to try and get the chorus to form another part of the narrative, Which makes sense being repeated after each verse, Although of course it's not the easiest thing to do.

  • @beatrixwickson8477
    @beatrixwickson8477 3 года назад +227

    I once saw a solo concert and the guy said "you'll know this next one, so remember it has two sections, a chorus and a refrain. Now a chorus is where you all join in and the rest you refrain".
    I honestly think that's the heart of what a chorus is. The bit that invites the audience to sing along, even if it's through techniques which invite it implicitly. And our conventions and subversion of those conventions evolves out of that history.

    • @AndrewBakke
      @AndrewBakke 3 года назад +9

      Probably the simplest argument to make, too. It's right there in the name: chorus.

    • @drewburchett2824
      @drewburchett2824 3 года назад +11

      Does that make Bohemian Rhapsody one big chorus?

    • @beatrixwickson8477
      @beatrixwickson8477 3 года назад +10

      @@drewburchett2824 They way I hear it, Stairway to Heaven and Bohemian Rhapsody had to share one chorus between the two songs. So they cut it into pieces and to this day no one will admit where they put them.

    • @rickyspanish4792
      @rickyspanish4792 3 года назад

      @@drewburchett2824 YES

    • @Saad-A16
      @Saad-A16 3 года назад +2

      @@beatrixwickson8477 Would you mind elaborating on that? For some reason, I'm not fully getting what you mean by that.

  • @TNGfan8794
    @TNGfan8794 2 года назад +9

    Here's the thing about song-writing when it comes to the verse vs the chorus (or hook):
    It doesn't matter what I say
    So long as I sing with inflection
    That makes you feel I'll convey
    Some inner truth or vast reflection
    But I've said nothing so far
    And I can keep it up for as long as it takes
    And it don't matter who you are
    If I'm doing my job, it's your resolve that breaks
    Because the hook brings you back
    I ain't tellin' you no lie
    The hook brings you back
    On that you can rely.
    😉

  • @jnmaloney
    @jnmaloney 3 года назад +133

    So by being placed between two verses, a chorus is, indeed, a sandwich.

    • @reillywalker195
      @reillywalker195 3 года назад +1

      Some songs actually _start_ on the chorus, though. "Skye Boat Song" and "Live Forever" come to mind as examples.

    • @COhlen
      @COhlen 11 месяцев назад

      @@reillywalker195 i think it depends how the song ends. if the song starts on a verse but ends on a chorus, or vice versa, its not a sandwich. if is starts and ends with the chorus its a sandwich. same thing if it starts and ends with a verse.

  • @calaverx11
    @calaverx11 3 года назад +135

    Also, Metallica's "Unforgiven" inverts the loud/soft and high register/low register in the verse and chorus.

    • @AJPMUSIC_OFFICIAL
      @AJPMUSIC_OFFICIAL 3 года назад +15

      And they did this as a counter to their own formula of clean verse heavy chorus they became know for (One, Welcome Home et al). Which they apparently borrowed from Remember Tomorrow by Iron Maiden.

    • @ratsalad178
      @ratsalad178 3 года назад +4

      i was thinking of the same song when he brought that up!

    • @lordoflobsters7254
      @lordoflobsters7254 2 года назад +4

      Also "Fade to Black" has a chorus with no lyrics while the verses have lyrics,

  • @PsiVolt
    @PsiVolt 3 года назад +10

    I love that the take-away is the same for writing a lot of music in general. Find what you want to do, find out how its usually done, and strike a balance between what is done and what you need. You need to learn the rules first to break them properly

  • @Krieghandt
    @Krieghandt 3 года назад +463

    I love the chorus in Bohemian Rhapsody.

    • @kevinprettyman1367
      @kevinprettyman1367 3 года назад +8

      Flawless

    • @drewchilders4006
      @drewchilders4006 3 года назад +41

      The chorus in Sound of Silence is even better

    • @kathybramley5609
      @kathybramley5609 3 года назад +1

      Which bit is that!?

    • @badgasaurus4211
      @badgasaurus4211 3 года назад +6

      @@kathybramley5609 ‘MAMA,didn’t mean to make you cry,’ that part’. No other would fit as a chorus

    • @drewchilders4006
      @drewchilders4006 3 года назад +73

      @@badgasaurus4211 Krieghandt was joking. Bohemian Rhapsody doesn’t have a chorus.

  • @fromchomleystreet
    @fromchomleystreet Год назад +14

    I love the obscure “you either get it or you don’t” references you sometimes use in your drawings. “Significant changes” was a particular favourite here.

  • @Rakunya
    @Rakunya 3 года назад +66

    I find it interesting, as someone who listens to a lot of Japanese music (especially Vocaloid), that there seems to be less need to exactly repeat lyrics in a chorus in other languages. A lot of my favorite songs in Japanese share some lyrics across choruses, and may repeat a particular chorus lyrically, but will have at least slightly altered lyrics between choruses. How different usually seems to depend on if there's a mood shift, they want to draw attention to something different, or, most drastically, if they are telling a story. Not that there aren't Japanese examples of songs where the lyrics stay the same across all choruses, but I find it much easier to find examples where the lyrics change in Japanese songs than English ones.

    • @savagetofu1
      @savagetofu1 3 года назад +1

      What are some of your favorites?

    • @kimdavis2433
      @kimdavis2433 3 года назад +10

      Yeah, the common trope in popular Japanese music is basically to have an A chorus and a B chorus, returning to the A chorus the third time around for an ABA structure (often with minor changes though)
      The melody remains the same, and the lyrics often retain a short lyrical hook, but other than that the lyrics of the second chorus are usually more an expansion of the first one than a repetition

    • @savagetofu1
      @savagetofu1 3 года назад

      @@kimdavis2433 Thats interesting. I remember the term "pre-chorus." Theres so much to learn!! Thank you.

    • @swiperhits
      @swiperhits Год назад

      @@kimdavis2433 me with 0 song writing theory found myself doing this because i wanted to build off of the first chorus yea

    • @chrisl3193
      @chrisl3193 9 месяцев назад

      Oh wow I had no idea, I've always personally written my music that way. It takes me so long to write a song that I get incredibly tied of it and my brain tells me to change the lyrics and certain notes each chorus because it adds something slightly new while still holding form

  • @Jrakula10
    @Jrakula10 3 года назад +85

    i would love to see more about different sections of songs. like solos, breakdowns and bridges.

    • @wangledteb5671
      @wangledteb5671 3 года назад +6

      "how to write a good drum solo" when

    • @A.F.Whitepigeon
      @A.F.Whitepigeon 3 года назад +1

      I second the request for a breakdown vid. There isn't nearly enough good info out there.

    • @crimfan
      @crimfan 3 года назад +4

      Agreed. Also how an instrumental break/solo can advance the song's narrative.

  • @Producelikeapro
    @Producelikeapro 3 года назад +169

    Great! Another excellent video. Thanks for posting! P.S I got a shoutout at the end! Happy to support such an amazing channel!

    • @EmyrDerfel
      @EmyrDerfel 3 года назад +7

      I heard "Warren Huart" at the end and did a double take.

    • @Producelikeapro
      @Producelikeapro 3 года назад +1

      @@EmyrDerfel haha yes!! Indeed

    • @chiju
      @chiju 3 года назад +4

      @@EmyrDerfel you're not the only one

    • @acmeyakko
      @acmeyakko 3 года назад +1

      I'm not sure how to feel about the cross referencing between my favorite RUclips channels. The community aspect is awesome, and yet it's a little odd at the same time. Mostly, I'm happy to see a successful channel I enjoy supporting one of my favorites. Thanks Warren!

    • @Producelikeapro
      @Producelikeapro 3 года назад +1

      @@chiju haha thanks

  • @TakaComics
    @TakaComics 3 года назад +17

    Japanese pop and rock music changes the lyrics in the chorus a lot, usually having a 1st chorus, 2nd chorus, and then coming back to both in a row at the end of the song. They use the same melody but build on the feelings in the chorus. For example, Ayumi Hamasaki’s “Teddy Bear” used the first chorus to build up the story the man is telling her, and the second used the same melody, but more emotional, to deliver the payoff of that story. Jupiter’s “Nostalgie,” one of my absolute favorite songs, used a second chorus to differentiate between the singer’s feelings at the time, talking about the future, then the second chorus starts off with “Now…” repeating the same idea but framing it as a sense that what happened before will help him overcome his darkness now. By the way, I recommend both songs as beautiful, heartbreaking songs that have a lot of power and feeling, even if you don’t speak Japanese ☺️

    • @kennethpurscell
      @kennethpurscell 2 года назад

      Someone else who does this a lot is Stephen Sondheim. He's working with narrative and character functions, of course, so the changing lyric will mark changes in the story. But he's usually pretty clear about where the chorus is. (He even calls it a "release.") But then I remembered Sweeny Todd and the song "Nothing's Going to Harm You." Toby sings this to Mrs. Lovett (RIP Angela Lansbury) a couple of times in sweet innocence. Suddenly *she* sings the chorus back to him--and now it's the accompanying chords that change, skewing a song of innocence into something far more devious! But it's still the chorus, the very same words and melody. Only we hear her evil... I guess the word would be prevarication. Amazing!

  • @jaykoblz1
    @jaykoblz1 2 года назад +5

    That you drew a platypus to describe something that is "part of the group but not a good example of it" is probably my favorite thing I've seen on any of your videos. Brilliant

  • @papabon1622
    @papabon1622 3 года назад +34

    "Primadonna" by Marina and the Diamonds is a good example of an anti-chorus with a more subdued chorus with the verses acting as the expulsion of sonic energy

  • @valeriemclean192
    @valeriemclean192 3 года назад +87

    I love that I never know entirely what to expect in the more theory-heavy videos. Come for the music theory, stay for the extended section on the epistemological failures of definitions. ^_^

    • @loganstrong5426
      @loganstrong5426 3 года назад

      And dislike because he refuses to tell us if a hot dog is a sandwich or not. WHAT ARE YOU HIDING 12TONE!?

  • @davidwalterhall
    @davidwalterhall Год назад +1

    Interesting example of titles. The song we know as Fly Me to the Moon was originally titled In Other Words. The phrase "in other words" appears in it 7 times, the phrase "fly me to the Moon" only appears once. It seems we ought to call it by its original title, but the opening line is so memorable that by the time Sinatra recorded it, 10 years after it was first recorded by a cabaret singer called Kaye Ballard, Peggy Lee had already conviced the songwriter to change the name officially, and the famous Sinatra/Basie version was listed as Fly Me To The Moon (In Other Words), and later versions dropped the old title altogether.

  • @Maverick842
    @Maverick842 3 года назад +12

    “Living On A Prayer” was the example that was in my head for a clearly defined chorus. Great minds and whatnot, I guess

  • @sonidodebolsillo
    @sonidodebolsillo Год назад +1

    Sooo much information there!!
    As a non native english speaker I found out that seeing your videos at 0,75 speeds is the perfect speed to get at least most part of the great information you have put on your videos.
    Thank you!

  • @WizardOfDocs
    @WizardOfDocs 3 года назад +257

    “I don’t care whether a hot dog is a sandwich”
    *proceeds to define the hot dog debate as if it were obvious that hot dogs aren’t sandwiches*

    • @tb5535
      @tb5535 3 года назад +9

      Haha! I blanked out on the video for about the next two minutes as I mulled over the debate in my head. I landed on it's a sandwich if when in its natural state it can lie flat on a plate with zero movement and no lean. Perhaps 12tone should break down the structure of sandwich theory.

    • @WizardOfDocs
      @WizardOfDocs 3 года назад +14

      @@tb5535 my personal stance is that "two pieces of bread with stuff between them" is sufficient. Connectivity doesn't matter, but there is a distinction I can come at from two directions that, at the moment, seem equally plausible.
      The first is familiarity-based: it's a sandwich if the bread component is something the speaker has been culturally trained to think is sandwich bread. For me, that's slices from a loaf, rolls or bagels cut in half (and, sadly, donuts as an extension of bagels), hot dog and hamburger buns, crackers, and matzah.
      The second is geometric: it's a sandwich if it's basically flat with bread above and below. So all the things I mentioned above count (and we can include non-food sandwiches that are just kinda symmetrical stacks of things), and tall sandwiches are peripheral, and it also excludes tacos, open-faced melts, sausage rolls, and pizza slices folded in half.
      I'm also pretty sure the sandwich is a European/American invention, and that sandwiches in other cultures (like the banh mi) are a legacy of colonialism and imperialism. (Feel free to correct me if that's not true.) So that's worth accounting for in your definition.
      It is still true that, if a well-meaning alien were to ask me to make sweeping generalizations about Earth food, I would tell them we're known for "bread around things, accounting for regional nuances in all three of those terms." That's the superclass to which sandwiches, tacos, melts, pies, stuffed shells, and gyoza all belong. (I should go have breakfast, shouldn't I?)

    • @tb5535
      @tb5535 3 года назад +8

      @@WizardOfDocs There's a Radiohead song in there somewhere.

    • @WizardOfDocs
      @WizardOfDocs 3 года назад

      @@tb5535 I'm not familiar enough with Radiohead to see where you're going with that. Care to elaborate?

    • @RadicalEagle
      @RadicalEagle 3 года назад +1

      @Calm Mango My favorite argument to use in these hypothetical arguments is to say “if hotdogs were sandwiches then people would call them sandwiches.”

  • @wortrihanha5731
    @wortrihanha5731 3 года назад +58

    Disappointed that you didn't use "The Hook" by Blues Traveler in this analysis. It'd have been very meta.

    • @Terribleguitarist89
      @Terribleguitarist89 3 года назад +1

      That one could be a whole series of videos... love that song.

    • @CableG
      @CableG 3 года назад

      Glad I found this comment before I said the same thing. I would like an analysis on this song in general.

  • @dkerwood1
    @dkerwood1 3 года назад +26

    "If the House Burns Down Tonight" by Switchfoot is a great example of a chorus that doesn't repeat verbatim. Each time the chorus presents as a call and response - the call changes each time but the response repeats.

    • @robert1411
      @robert1411 3 года назад +1

      Yes!! The guys in Switchfoot are master songwriters

    • @m1chacha
      @m1chacha 3 года назад +1

      Yes! Switchfoot don't get talked about enough but they are amazing, and so is that song!

  • @reillywalker195
    @reillywalker195 3 года назад +26

    "This is Music" by The Verve contains _few_ lyrical repetitions in its choruses, with only a few shared phrases. The choruses' last lines are similar but not exactly the same, while their middling lines are all completely different. They still feel like choruses with their shared melody and harmony distinct from the rest of the song, but lyrically they differ significantly apart from their first lines.
    "Everybody Wants to Rule the World" by Tears For Fears does something similar. It contains no lyrical repetitions within its choruses beyond the title of the song, but you can still recognize each chorus as a chorus because of the elements that _are_ consistent between them. All five choruses use the same lyrical structure and vocal melody, the same chord progression distinct from that of the verses, and the same final lyrics.

    • @badgasaurus4211
      @badgasaurus4211 3 года назад +1

      Props on the verve example. Ace band

    • @rateeightx
      @rateeightx 2 года назад

      Wait the chorus of "Everybody Wants To Rule The World" is more than just the title line???

  • @stefan1024
    @stefan1024 3 года назад +8

    Great video! Living on a Prayer is my go-to example for chorusses as well so you using it made me smile. I never realized that chorusses tend to have a tonic function, always guessed they worked as dominant, bringing me back to a tonic verse, like the turn-around in a blues song, just extended. No wonder I never wrote a good pop song :)

  • @plaidpvcpipe3792
    @plaidpvcpipe3792 3 года назад +16

    15:18 I think a better way to put this is that the title comes from the chorus. Usually when writing song lyrics or poems, you don't have a title from the start, and instead decide the title after writing it. Typically those repeated phrases that become the title are important (often metaphors but not always) phrases to the meaning of the song, which is why they're repeated.

    • @crimfan
      @crimfan 3 года назад +2

      They can be, for sure. I wrote a tune where I used that as the name, but a friend of mine who gave me some feedback on the song suggested reverting to the first line of the verse and then bring that back thematically in the last verse, which ended up better.

    • @tsotate
      @tsotate 3 года назад +1

      Also, if your chorus is doing a good job on the "memorability" function of a chorus, the audience will call it something in the chorus _anyway_. Might as well mean into that instead of having to re-title. (e.g. "Escape", which became "Escape (the Pina Colada song)" because everyone just called it "The Pina Colada Song".)

    • @tsotate
      @tsotate 3 года назад

      *Lean into
      Darn autocorrupt.

  • @Snapslol
    @Snapslol 2 года назад +9

    I think the most important simple to explain point that this video is missing is a concept in all art: contrast. A chorus is probably the focal point of the song, and you get people to notice the focal point with contrast. All examples you give are an example of contrast, even the cases like Billie Eilish's Bury a Friend, or Where Is My Mind, they don't necessarily need to be subverting expectations (though they do, they would still likely work in a vacuum where no other human had ever heard another song) all they're doing is giving a contrasting section of the song that draws attention from the listener.
    You notice when instruments cut out because it's different, you notice when the energy lowers because it's different, similarly you notice when the energy elevates, when background singers come in, when there are more instruments, more notes, less notes, etc... all because it's different. That's contrast, a fundamental aspect of almost all art, though my relationship with it is primarily from the visual arts.

    • @rolandjgutierrez7737
      @rolandjgutierrez7737 Год назад

      well if you are playing a song but don't really know it note for note you throw in a little of the chorus your hook to get away with it..improvising ...

  • @colonelsanders1617
    @colonelsanders1617 3 года назад +18

    I think something to include here are songs that have a “build” chorus into a high energy instrumental “drop.”

    • @kimdavis2433
      @kimdavis2433 3 года назад +5

      True, common trope in electronic dance music especially

  • @andrewmoore9275
    @andrewmoore9275 3 года назад +3

    This is my favorite 12Tone video so far. LOVE THIS DEEP DIVE. Choruses are hard for me right now.

  • @chel8568
    @chel8568 3 года назад +20

    I have an idea without any actual proof, that basically choruses were created for audience to sing along. Like in sea shanty or in songs for children, question-answer kinda thing. And all old songs with somewhat modern structure that i can remember are guitar-campfire kinda songs, i dont know how to explain better, but verses are typically only for the guy with the guitar, and choruses are for whole croud. And maybe back vocals today are kinda representing croud singing along to the chorus? So yea, chorus is the part of song to sing along.
    Also i noticed a lot that chorus summarises whle song, and you can pretty much understand what song is about from chorus alone

    • @lev7509
      @lev7509 3 года назад +3

      Good points!
      Of course, there have got to be songs that completely defy it all, but generally yes!
      The verses tell the stories, the choruses highlight the moral of the song.

  • @pbentle1990
    @pbentle1990 Год назад +4

    I always felt, from a songwriting prospective, that the chorus is suppose to be the most identifiable part of the song. Not only does it usually reuse the same lyrics, but it also feels like a part of the song that belongs to the audience. I never felt it was something that could be simply defined, but felt

  • @Iwasbornin74
    @Iwasbornin74 3 года назад +15

    Lionel Richie’s Hello often gets lumped into the “Songs Without a Chorus” list because because the “hello, is it me you’re looking for?” is the last line of the verse and the lift section changes from the first time it is sung to the second, but that repeats the third time (and fourth in the album version off memory). Musically, THAT is the chorus. That is the fucking hook.

    • @crimfan
      @crimfan 3 года назад +1

      Good example. LR's most famous music sounds dated due to the '80s keyboards and drum machines, but strip those down and the songs are really well-written.

    • @MaggaraMarine
      @MaggaraMarine 3 года назад

      @ghost mall I would say that the first chorus of that song is simply omitted. I'm hearing it as verse - pre-chorus (- missing chorus) - verse - pre-chorus - chorus. You are expecting a chorus after the pre-chorus, but it simply doesn't come - the first chorus is replaced by a short instrumental interlude. The outro of the song has the function of a chorus, even though it only appears once in the song. But also, while it only appears once, it's still repeated so many times that it clearly feels like a chorus. And it's also the catchy part of the song.

    • @Iwasbornin74
      @Iwasbornin74 3 года назад

      @@MaggaraMarine on their official RUclips channel posting of the song they offer up only the lyrics to the chorus in their video notes. Guess what they are calling the chorus?

    • @MaggaraMarine
      @MaggaraMarine 3 года назад

      @@Iwasbornin74 Yeah. I think that's the only part in the song that feels like a chorus. (And that part does definitely feel like a chorus.)
      But even though I agree with it, I have to say that the official video calling it a chorus doesn't really prove it is one. These labels are somewhat subjective, and Don't Stop Believing is a good example of a song that doesn't really follow the "textbook definition" of a chorus. Just because the artist decides to call the section a chorus doesn't necessarily make it one.
      But good to know that I agree with the "official video".

  • @sagecarter2368
    @sagecarter2368 3 года назад +11

    "lack some abstract sense of definitive sandwichness" is my new favorite sentence thank you

  • @PlayTheMind
    @PlayTheMind 3 года назад +86

    I personally admire songs with a clickbait opening, like Toxic or Für Elise

    • @adultnewborn3460
      @adultnewborn3460 3 года назад +12

      Bruh said clickbait opening 🤣😭 I know exactly what you meant tho. Especially your examples. But I’m crying at how you worded it😂😂

    • @nugboy420
      @nugboy420 3 года назад +9

      Fact that toxic and fur elise got grouped together was great

    • @kirbymia6209
      @kirbymia6209 3 года назад +2

      This comment needs more likes lol!

    • @leandrog2785
      @leandrog2785 3 года назад

      What's clickbait about Für Elise?

    • @adultnewborn3460
      @adultnewborn3460 3 года назад +2

      @@leandrog2785 Don’t act like the second part is nearly as interesting as the begging. 😂

  • @sebazh.677
    @sebazh.677 3 года назад +3

    Really like the variety of songs you used here

  • @rohiogerv22
    @rohiogerv22 3 года назад +2

    Beabadoobee's "Sorry" is a really cool example of chorus subversion.
    It has a really obvious Verse-Chorus setup, first section ("Thought I'd come and see you") not repeating, and next section ("And it Hurts Me...") repeating and generally acting like a chorus. There's even an entire guitar solo before any other sections come in. And then, after a quick bridge/alt-verse, a brand new section comes in and completely takes over the gravity of the song ("I'm soooooorry, I'm so-oh-horryyyyyy") and suddenly what you'd thought was the chorus is just the supporting material, a sort of prechorus, to this section that ticks off all the mental boxes for "chorus".

  • @feodosiiqq6764
    @feodosiiqq6764 3 года назад +20

    For me the perfect chorus is "more than a feeling" by Boston

  • @NeonBeeCat
    @NeonBeeCat 3 года назад +40

    The secret is not write a chorus and do edm and make a fire drop

    • @赤垢-x6e
      @赤垢-x6e 3 года назад +5

      then the chorus is the pre-chorus :relieved:

    • @xezmakorewarriah
      @xezmakorewarriah 3 года назад

      drops are basically choruses without lyrics

    • @nahometesfay1112
      @nahometesfay1112 3 года назад

      @@xezmakorewarriah ehh I'd say they are functionally different. You can go back to the chorus as often as you want, but a drop has to be used sparingly or else it loses it's impact.

    • @michaelegan3522
      @michaelegan3522 6 месяцев назад

      The real secret is edm sucks ass

  • @davidjairala69
    @davidjairala69 3 года назад +9

    This video is everything I love about your channel. Please keep the semantic philosophy bits coming lmao

  • @schoolmonkey13
    @schoolmonkey13 3 года назад +3

    On the topic of titles, when it comes to art, titles are often a significant piece to consider when analyzing a piece. In my opinion, titles are as much as part of a work as anything else, so it's entirely fair to include them in an analysis like this.

  • @thanhhainguyen3072
    @thanhhainguyen3072 3 года назад

    I've just watched your video posted 4 years ago then I was watching this and mind blown! Your voice has changed so much.

  • @turinturambar1159
    @turinturambar1159 2 года назад

    When you go into our obsession with definition you reach a level of philosophy that excited my intellectual mind. I come for music talk, so I consider this a juicy bonus. Thank you for all of your videos I've watched and all of them I haven't watched yet, even the ones you haven't made yet. Keep on rocking

  • @theholymackerel1066
    @theholymackerel1066 3 года назад

    As a philosopher, I agree (and am glad you included) a brief explanation about what a "definition" is, and what it is NOT.
    The philosophy of language is unique because it is very complicated, yet we use it every day.
    Ethics is the same way.
    This is why philosophers in their front matter spend a great deal of time creating a VERY specific definition for what they mean by the words they use...and these definitions end up being several sentences long in many cases.
    This is because they understand that a 'definition' is not ONLY what it is, but also attempts to represent and describe a thing as it truly is whilst conveying it to another person.
    Its a difficult task that is often overlooked. And you handled that task with both tact and rigor.
    Fantastic content

  • @lifelongpilot
    @lifelongpilot 3 года назад +1

    No, this exploration was not pointless! What a very well-done video! Subscribed

  • @DaedalusYoung
    @DaedalusYoung 3 года назад +3

    Advance frame by frame at 5:04 when the sheet changes. Masterpiece.

    • @BurnMoneyBeats
      @BurnMoneyBeats 3 года назад

      I see the page that looks like static but what are you seeing specifically that I'm not getting?

    • @lenyu4473
      @lenyu4473 3 года назад

      @@BurnMoneyBeats put it on 0,25 speedy an spam the pause/unpause button. He means the 1 Frame picture between the two sheets

    • @BurnMoneyBeats
      @BurnMoneyBeats 3 года назад

      @@lenyu4473 you mean the page that looks like white noise? Or......static.

  • @rocketgeek96
    @rocketgeek96 2 года назад +1

    Also, don't be afraid to mess with chorus phrases fitting neatly into 2 or 4 bar lengths. One of my favorite choruses ever is the one to Shania Twain's Man! I Feel Like A Woman!, which not only regularly uses 5 bar phrases, but repeats it only 3 times before dropping the title line and then the intro riff needs an extra 2/4 bar to play out before we get back to the rest of the song. It's gloriously confusing, and a hell of a time.

  • @DeathMetalDuelist666
    @DeathMetalDuelist666 3 года назад +1

    The best chorus you can write get more and more interesting every time it comes in, don’t always put it right where it “should be”, sometimes throw in extra pieces in between that give delayed satisfaction, build to it.
    I wrote a song that begins with a broken down version of the chorus, then going into it right after. After that are 2 non repeated riffs back into the chorus. The lyrics are different but the patterns and riff are the same. It then goes through clean sections, solo sections, harmonized lead sections, and breakdowns before the final chorus. The final one actually changes from a triplet eighth to straight 16th notes and slightly alters the patterns in voice. Guitar layers add and then doubles in length reintroducing a theme from the broken down intro except switching from strings into guitar before the final words are the title, which haven’t actually been spoken before giving solid closure to the track and giving the choruses previous to the last a new context. Very fun and one of my favorite songs I’ve ever written

  • @MrNonDescript01
    @MrNonDescript01 3 года назад +26

    It's my understanding that "the Hook brings you baahaaaack."

    • @quietone610
      @quietone610 3 года назад +4

      You ain't tellin' us no liies.

    • @theunwelcome
      @theunwelcome 3 года назад +1

      on that, you can rely, ehhehehehe

    • @frigginjerk
      @frigginjerk 3 года назад

      Are you telling me lies?

  • @melodicdreamer72
    @melodicdreamer72 3 года назад

    The amount of work that is put into these videos just blows my mind. I appreciate the content and, of course, the work that goes into it.

  • @michaelw6277
    @michaelw6277 Год назад

    A chorus is the song’s anchor. The fine details regarding how that anchor is crafted isn’t as important as it being a defined section of song that the other parts can latch onto in order to establish the song’s identity. Change the pitch, keys, lyrics, whatever… so long as you’ve maintained some kind of theme to be shared among chorus A, B, and/or C, etc you’re doing it right. IMO making subtle changes between different chorus’ in the same song while maintaining each section’s identity as “the chorus” is a lot of fun and makes a song more interesting to listen to.

  • @victorcobane6644
    @victorcobane6644 2 месяца назад

    INSANELY good video! I liked this to remember to come back to it later while I write. So many good ideas and points from music theory all distilled perfectly into a (relatively) quick 20 minutes. Thank you for this

  • @ramonafrombarcelona
    @ramonafrombarcelona 3 года назад

    This may well be one of your best videos yet! I'm currently stuck trying to finish a composition and 12:00 made me realize that a section I thought was a verse, was actually an intro/prechorus bc what comes after it definitely sounds like "the thing" on which the song should end. So, thanks on this new perspective you've given me!

  • @gabe_s_videos
    @gabe_s_videos 3 года назад +5

    One of my favorite inversions of the verse/chorus energy (and just one of my favorite songs ever) is "Who Are You" by The Who: high-as-fuck energy verses, very subdued choruses.

  • @jeffbertjeffbertson4805
    @jeffbertjeffbertson4805 3 года назад +50

    Then you have a song like seven nation army where the “chorus” has no words

    • @aliquidcow
      @aliquidcow 3 года назад +3

      I would describe that as a hook rather than a chorus. I think given that the word 'chorus' in latin literally refers to singing, the part of a song called a 'chorus' needs to contain vocals. I don't know Seven Nation Army, but it's possible that it's just a song that doesn't really have a chorus.

    • @miras_edge
      @miras_edge 3 года назад +1

      kind of similar to how some edm songs with vocals will drop and cut them out

    • @murk4552
      @murk4552 3 года назад +1

      @@aliquidcow a hook to me is an appetizer, short, sweet and doesn't overstate anything or lacks pretentiousness. A chorus on another hand is a well prepared dish, maybe not a full course entree, but it's enough to make you want seconds of it. A hook grabs your attention, a chorus captivates you.

  • @jri141
    @jri141 3 года назад

    The point of view part was something I'd never picked up on and it blew my mind. Great take, as always!

  • @Lamadesbois
    @Lamadesbois 3 года назад

    Man, I liked this video a lot! Explaining the chorus in all its diversity, giving advice without being prescriptive, to my eyes it is a success!

  • @ilyasantonov212
    @ilyasantonov212 3 года назад +4

    Speaking of interesting dynamic changes in choruses, I think a breakdown of Metallica's Unforgiven (the first one) would be amazing

  • @BonaparteBardithion
    @BonaparteBardithion 3 года назад

    17:20
    Another interesting example of this is "It's All Coming Back To Me Now" (popularized by Celine Dion).
    The song is formatted
    verse
    pre-chorus
    chorus I
    bridge/post-chorus
    chorus II
    (repeat all)
    The verses ("There were nights when the wind"..) and pre-chorus ("I finished crying...") are pretty straightforward and give you the meat of the characters and current situation.
    Chorus I (or chorus part 1) is a mellow recollection of former emotions in a lower register. The bridge reminisces about positive memories in contrast to the verses and then the Chorus II repeats the same elements as Chorus I an octave up with much fuller accompaniment. This follows that same buildup of energy.
    The only downside of this format is that it makes the combined chorus section take up the bulk of the song's runtime which effectively makes the listener forget the verses. Which is a bummer because they're lyrically the most emotionally dynamic part.

  • @8bitbreadbox
    @8bitbreadbox 2 месяца назад

    As a dubstep listener, the biggest indicator that a section is a chorus is, for me, the pre chorus. Even in a song like Virtual Riot's Neon Angel, which doesn't even have any repeated sections, you can fairly easily identify the chorus because it's the part after the build up

  • @Eidn
    @Eidn 3 года назад

    This is a truly tremendous video thank you good sir 👏. I was having a really bad day and this video has cheered me up so much for which I am extremely grateful. So much interest, so much nostalgia, and I particularly enjoyed the hot dog section. You make the most watchable music theory videos on the Internet thank you and keep it up!

  • @athomesongwriting
    @athomesongwriting 3 года назад

    This is a very interesting look at Choruses and section function in general. Great job! It was my Friday motivation!

  • @Rufiowascool
    @Rufiowascool Год назад

    The bit where you draw a platypus is fucking GENIUS.

  • @VITAMINJSONGS
    @VITAMINJSONGS 2 года назад

    Your teaching method is incredible!

  • @Phosfit
    @Phosfit 3 года назад +1

    I hope to learn where to apply the chorus & how different levels of complexity choruses should be treated in that regard

  • @elwayfan01
    @elwayfan01 3 года назад +11

    "By doing something different"
    Draws Monty Python foot

  • @andischarfstein
    @andischarfstein 3 года назад +1

    Great video! I would love it if some future installment could touch on the relationship between chorus and its surroundings more, as I am inclined to believe that no great chorus can exist in a vacuum, or put another way: You can't have a satisfying, climactic payoff without previous build-up of musical tension. An interesting question would therefore be how to build up to the chorus in a natural, cohesive manner suited to the song.

  • @user54389
    @user54389 3 года назад +13

    You missed the perfect chance to dig into "Hook" by Blues Traveler. In fact, you should do a vid on it!

  • @brenthronik6066
    @brenthronik6066 Год назад

    I really appreciate the nod to Despacito towards the end! It seems like as "Pop EDM" is becoming more an more prevalent, the Post Chorus is increasingly becoming the energetic climax of the song

  • @timonsteup2877
    @timonsteup2877 3 года назад +1

    12:31 One example that comes to mind is Megadeth's "Washington is Next" where the chorus has slightly different lyrics after each verse.

  • @2giantmonsters
    @2giantmonsters 3 года назад

    One of my fave musical genres is progressive rock\metal. many prog songs have a very unorthodox structure, sometimes no parts truly repeat, or if they do they are altered.
    Many Prog band today are prog for progs said but in the 70s when the genre was born, the term wasn't even coined yet. They were just laying the boundaries of what they could do.
    I'd lovely hear a n episode on that. Song structures (?) of 20 minute classic Prog songs. Thanks.

  • @Johan323232
    @Johan323232 3 года назад +1

    There are definitely musical cues to tell you what the title of the song is. It’s why the parenthetical subtitle exists. For the songs that tell you their title is one thing but are actually titled something else.

  • @akmadsen
    @akmadsen 3 года назад +1

    Haha, as someone who has studied linguistic and cognitive categorization (including classic prototype theory), the penguin at 4:37 really does it for me. :)
    (If anyone don't know, a penguin is usually used as an example of a non-prototypical example of a bird because it lacks one of the most basic and common properties of "bird", namely "can fly", yet we have no problem categorizing it as a bird.)

    • @ospero7681
      @ospero7681 3 года назад

      Same with the platypus - the most "out there" member of the category of "mammal".

  • @furmanarrangements
    @furmanarrangements 3 года назад +1

    I saw the thumbnail and thought this was surely going to be a video about Blues Traveler’s “Hook”.

  • @SouthSideSlider
    @SouthSideSlider 3 года назад

    I have always viewed the chorus as a sort of musical "home" in songs.
    Rarely do you start (birth) or finish (death) at home. And you leave your home multiple times throughout life (the verses). But you know where home is to you.
    This also allows for the chorus to change as your home will throughout your life. It may be different but its still home

  • @chiju
    @chiju 3 года назад +66

    Ah yes, the Bon Jovi, ELectric guitar, and Tomato, the truest musical embodiment of the quality of sandwichness.

    • @happycamperds9917
      @happycamperds9917 3 года назад

      Tom drum?

    • @michaelhoste_
      @michaelhoste_ 2 года назад +1

      A music journo here (Australia) used to always refer to a ‘Bon Jovi and Pineapple pizza’. I don’t know why that’s funny but it is.

  • @JacobH93
    @JacobH93 3 года назад

    So something interesting ive noticed. I play a lot of Contemporary Christian Music and a big trend recently is a large building bridge section. I would even argue that in many cases the bridge here outshines the chorus as the most memorable part. For example in the song Holy Ground by Passion, the title comes from the chorus, but by far the most memorable part is the bridge “Chains, Fall. Fear, bow. Here, now. Jesus you change everything”. I know a lot of musicians turn off their ears when they hear about CCM but I wouldn’t mind hearing your thoughts on this! The song form you hear is basically verse chorus verse chorus (and this is where is starts picking up usually) several bridges chorus. Then it’s not uncommon to go back and forth between the bridge and chorus a few more times.

  • @lodougherty
    @lodougherty 3 года назад +3

    Can we take a moment and just point out how absolutely hard these videos must be to make? Wow

  • @GhostieGwen
    @GhostieGwen 3 года назад +1

    Mentions the chorus being "under pressure"
    Draws ice cube
    I see what you did there

  • @sitearm
    @sitearm 3 года назад

    Nicely done, putting this together with a coherent structure and memorable examples - ty for posting!

  • @aidanlow1955
    @aidanlow1955 3 года назад

    Watching these videos makes me love music even more. I wish I studied music theory in high school

  • @orangeiceice12
    @orangeiceice12 2 года назад

    50 Cent attributed part of his success to an early mentor telling him to sing the chorus multiple ways, to practice getting good at making hooks, a technique he actually employs on a few songs, like PIMP, where he echoes the chorus with different lyrics in a bridge-like section

  • @ellaser93
    @ellaser93 3 года назад +8

    Fun fact: Do you know of a (relatively) popular artist whose choruses often DON'T repeat lyrically? "Weird Al" Yankovic! Especially in his song parodies. He frequently has very different lyrics from one play of the chorus to the next. It allows for more jokes and general humor in the song.

    • @quietone610
      @quietone610 3 года назад

      When he wrote "This song's just six words long", he wrote...oh. Well, he did write verses.

  • @nacoran
    @nacoran 3 года назад

    I think I knew all of this already... but I had no idea that I knew it. It's always fascinating to see things that have been floating around in your head articulated.
    It may have actually just helped me figure out what one of my songs needs. It's chorus/verse/chorus/verse chorus, but it always kind of felt incomplete. I think it needs a pre-chorus before the first chorus. It's frustrated me for years. It's got some of my best lines, a nice story board of action, but just always felt like it needed something else.

  • @Rapidashisaunicorn
    @Rapidashisaunicorn 3 года назад +1

    Mr. Brightside is an example of a song that has the same lyrics for both verses. Off the top of my head I can’t think of an example that’s the opposite (where the chorus lyrics change).

    • @reillywalker195
      @reillywalker195 3 года назад

      "If I Had a Gun" by Noel Gallagher comes close. Its choruses all experience lyrical variations, while its first verse gets repeated at the end.

  • @axel.lessio
    @axel.lessio 3 года назад

    When developing choruses I like to pick two contrasting motifs and combine them with different repetition patterns (AABA, AABB, AAAB, etc), then I pick the one that has the right balance between repetition and contrast. Both repetition and contrast are key to memorable, catchy choruses.

  • @jackdawson5490
    @jackdawson5490 Год назад

    Oasis' Live Forever is a great example of an ambiguous verse-chorus relationship. Musically it seems obvious which is the chorus, however what is unique is how what you would typically define as the verse is the section that repeats the lyrics, and the chorus sounding section changes its lyrics, the only thing that doesn't is when he sings the title.

  • @krcprc
    @krcprc 3 года назад +1

    I always thought of choruses as of sections where the melody shines. That explains the case where everything's louder and also the case where everything except the melody disappears (like in the first chorus of Let it go).

    • @badgasaurus4211
      @badgasaurus4211 3 года назад +2

      Usually. But then there’s stuff like strawberry fields where the verses demolish the chorus melodically.

  • @icannotchoose
    @icannotchoose Год назад

    Funny thing about "Do I Wanna Know" is that the chorus has always felt more like a bridge to me and my friends. I didn't even know the song was called that until I tried to look up "Crawling Back to You" and got corrected by google.

  • @DavidEmde
    @DavidEmde 2 года назад

    Great video. The "anti-chorus" blew my mind but makes complete sense.

  • @chiaracoetzee
    @chiaracoetzee 11 месяцев назад

    An interesting example I'd like to call out is Incubus' "Nice to Know You" where the chorus is identified in part due to a drastic reduction in lyrical complexity. Going from "Perspective pries your once-weighty eyes and it gives you wings" to "I haven't felt the way I feel today" seems odd at first because they're emphasizing their most predictable, boring lines from a poetic perspective, but from a memorability perspective it makes a lot of sense. They do a similar thing in "Wish You Were Here."

  • @5BBassist4Christ
    @5BBassist4Christ 3 года назад

    I would label that section in Bury a Friend a "Refrain". Refrains are common in old church hymns that serve a very similar function to a chorus. They are short repeated phrases at the end of each verse with simple lyrics to ground the emotion, but instead of being built up in an anthem, they are laid back in a reflection. It Is Well With My Soul is a great example (unless you listen to a modern version). Also, Sweet Caroline is a great example of the function of a chorus. Nobody knows the verses, but once the chorus comes in, everybody shouts it out.

  • @mr88cet
    @mr88cet Год назад

    One formula where the chorus has different words every time, we can see in the song _Both Sides, Now_ . The words are similar, but they respond to the topic of the verse: clouds, then love, then Life.

  • @earldlane
    @earldlane Год назад

    intentionality is the secret to amazing song writing PERIOD

  • @fiartruck0125
    @fiartruck0125 Год назад +1

    At church camp when we "sing choruses around the campfire", we mean we're going to sing the part of the song that everybody knows by heart without the books. (Because we didn't bring hymnals and couldn't see to read them if he had.)

  • @ilyahohenstein692
    @ilyahohenstein692 10 месяцев назад +7

    Use me as a button for “hot dogs are NOT sandwiches”

    • @tobi_talks_2_much
      @tobi_talks_2_much 6 месяцев назад +1

      Yes. Because hot dogs are tacos

    • @Solo_TV
      @Solo_TV 2 месяца назад

      Then what is it?

  • @samleonard2557
    @samleonard2557 3 года назад +1

    But does the hook bring us back? I was hoping you would touch on that. Great video, I learned a lot.

  • @lukebradford
    @lukebradford 3 года назад +1

    I don't know if it counts as a chorus or hook, but I've been going through David Bowie's discography in the last couple days, and I got to the song Memory of a Free Festival (which is the closer of Space Oddity) and was surprised when I didn't find almost 4 straight minutes of the same thing being repeated boring. The bit in question is "Woah, sun machine is coming down and we're gonna have a party."
    The fist half of the song is a pretty standard pop/rock song for that time, but the second half (starting about 3 and a half minutes in) is the aforementioned line just being repeated over and over with the instruments almost going wild in the background, then in the last minute or so, the song starts fading out and gets to a point where the instruments are a mere echo and all that's left is Bowie's voice still repeating the line. End of song.
    It feels as much like a chorus to me as the exclamations at the end of Cygnet Committee: "We want to believe!", "We want to live!", "I want to live!"
    Then again, who knows with David Bowie? A lot of his songs don't have choruses at all and quite a few subvert expectations.

    • @legrandliseurtri7495
      @legrandliseurtri7495 2 года назад +1

      The song ''For No One'' by Laura Brehm does kind of the same thing, albeit with a much shorter song, less than four minutes total. Half of the song if just the ''No one'' repeated over and over with the background instruments being the thing that changes, before they fade away at the end.

  • @demiurge2501
    @demiurge2501 3 года назад +1

    Another lyric writing video? Hell yeah!

  • @marlinexel2227
    @marlinexel2227 3 года назад

    I love the the examples you gave