I never knew what to do with this concept, and following you, reading Steiner, and lots of mulling has been invaluable... the more I sit with it, and the Catholic enunciation and focus on the Single Life, I begin to see how so many theological concept in Sunday School are highly compressed takes on larger, more involved ideas. Like this one. Your recommendation on the Tibetan Book of the Dead was an eye opener for the 'mechanics' of the thing, and Steiner's insistence on the bio-spiritual reasoning all hangs together well. You're so right that most of the appropriated Eastern thought is sensationalist, and Eastern thought (or old Western too) is the unending cycle of return. But the addition of Grace and Christ gives all this a purpose and an end. I can see how the point is to wean each person off of inordinate attachments (karma), but also develop all the unrealised aspects of a person that they didnt discover during their lifetime. I'm fascinated to keep learning and following this. It does create a very different culture of urgency and accompaniment when this is implicit behind our catechesis and prayer.
Ask me about my John the Baptist story sometime in person. Of course you are Lancelot in some non trivial, but not literal sense, just as Martin Shaw is clearly Merlin. Of course there are lots of cases of Reincarnation where people do remember their past lives and they weren't someone famous. I have had really awful first person dreams for as long as I can remember which seem real, historical, and traumatic, and very unglamorous and deeply disturbing.
I dream of maps and names, sometimes I can see pictures, sometimes I can smell the dream...not horrible night terrors sweat, but things from outdoors, Sand and pine like Florida..as well as clearly knowing things that are beyond my studies or imagination. It's real. My lines are cursed I think. I'm just trying to do the right things by God's teaching. It's not really hard at all. Do unto others and don't be a racist....Try to love people, don't let the ugliness of a few spoil your days.....
I came across a strange story in a biography of the Italian saint, stigmatic and mystic, Padre Pio. I wonder what you might make of it. This from 'Padre Pio: The True Story' by C. Bernard Ruffin.' This from a testimony written by Saint Pio himself: "Several days ago, I had an extraordinary experience. Around 11pm on January 18, 1905, Fra Anastasio and I were in the choir when suddenly I found myself far away in a wealthy home where the father was dying while a child was being born. Then there appeared to me the Most Blessed Virgin Mary, who said to me: I am entrusting this child to you. Now she is a diamond in the rough, but I want you to work with her, polish her, and make her as shining as possible, because one day I wish to adorn myself with her." Ruffin describes the strange circumstances of the birth of this girl, this "rough diamond" in some detail on the night of the same day, January 18, 1905, on which St. Pio had his extraordinary experience. My point is, how can a newborn be in any way described as "a rough diamond" in need of polishing? Is this account suggestive of reincarnation. Or not? What do you think?
Thanks for your thoughts on this topic Michael. If I understand correctly, you differentiate significantly reincarnation per se ( as indeed a possible spiritual reality/fact), and the way it is at times treated in the culture, especially when it is subject to trivialisation or used to obscure the sacred value of the single life. But are these necessary contraries? If the concept of Grace is freqently mishandled by us , does this invalidate its reality, I wonder? Cheers and good wishes! Alistair.
Thanks for commenting, Alistair. I don't think they are necessarily contraries--as I said, I believe reincarnation is possible--but, as reincarnation is taught both East and West, I think something is missing. The picture is incomplete. I have a hard time believing God would be so cruel as to not let us know what we did wrong--and I do believe Christ when he says, "Go in peace. Thy sins are forgiven." Otherwise, we are stuck in a cruel cycle of the eternal return.
Thanks Michael. Food for thought... I must track down that "missing" element. Great to be able to have these conversationsKia ora from New Zealand, Alistair.
As far as I can tell, the reason usually given for belief in reincarnation and why it's useful, is that it basically gives an incarnational orientation to life. That makes a lot of sense in the kind of gnorstic longing for, or expectations of, another world after death, I often see in christians. So in that context, it can be a step in the right direction I guess. But from my perspective it's not useful in a context where one already realizes the faithful being in heaven means their spirits are already incarnated, in all of us. Just because our imaginations have a hard time realizing exactly how that works, doesn't mean one that's easier to understand, like reincarnation one to one, is better, as it can tend to serve narcissistic views of ones own spirit. That the dead might serve as guardian angels for a particual body, forming a new spirit, is a much better stance when it comes to making us humble and thankful for what came before I think. That thoughts of this angel might be communicated to us, makes complete sense too.
I wonder what your thoughts are onthe Hymn "It is well in my Soul" by Horatio Spafford...And his American Colony in Jerusalem.... Do you believe the piwers that be that run the DNA collections are tracking Biblical lines, to this day. TIA. The history of Gihon spring and his son finding the inscriptions.... Spafford Childrens Center in Jerusalem at Herods Gate....all the same folks... lines
@@michaelmartin8681 It's a well known hymn, You may recognize it when you hear it. Reset material to get people the hard times, natural or created. I'm quite certain all of that was completely manufactured.
Very interesting topic, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I would love if you wrote more on this topic, either on your blogs, essays or books.
Thanks. Maybe I'll do that in the near future.
I never knew what to do with this concept, and following you, reading Steiner, and lots of mulling has been invaluable... the more I sit with it, and the Catholic enunciation and focus on the Single Life, I begin to see how so many theological concept in Sunday School are highly compressed takes on larger, more involved ideas. Like this one. Your recommendation on the Tibetan Book of the Dead was an eye opener for the 'mechanics' of the thing, and Steiner's insistence on the bio-spiritual reasoning all hangs together well. You're so right that most of the appropriated Eastern thought is sensationalist, and Eastern thought (or old Western too) is the unending cycle of return. But the addition of Grace and Christ gives all this a purpose and an end. I can see how the point is to wean each person off of inordinate attachments (karma), but also develop all the unrealised aspects of a person that they didnt discover during their lifetime. I'm fascinated to keep learning and following this. It does create a very different culture of urgency and accompaniment when this is implicit behind our catechesis and prayer.
Your comments made me think I need to do more.
Ask me about my John the Baptist story sometime in person. Of course you are Lancelot in some non trivial, but not literal sense, just as Martin Shaw is clearly Merlin. Of course there are lots of cases of Reincarnation where people do remember their past lives and they weren't someone famous. I have had really awful first person dreams for as long as I can remember which seem real, historical, and traumatic, and very unglamorous and deeply disturbing.
I'm all ears.
I dream of maps and names, sometimes I can see pictures, sometimes I can smell the dream...not horrible night terrors sweat, but things from outdoors, Sand and pine like Florida..as well as clearly knowing things that are beyond my studies or imagination. It's real. My lines are cursed I think. I'm just trying to do the right things by God's teaching. It's not really hard at all. Do unto others and don't be a racist....Try to love people, don't let the ugliness of a few spoil your days.....
I came across a strange story in a biography of the Italian saint, stigmatic and mystic, Padre Pio. I wonder what you might make of it. This from 'Padre Pio: The True Story' by C. Bernard Ruffin.'
This from a testimony written by Saint Pio himself:
"Several days ago, I had an extraordinary experience. Around 11pm on January 18, 1905, Fra Anastasio and I were in the choir when suddenly I found myself far away in a wealthy home where the father was dying while a child was being born. Then there appeared to me the Most Blessed Virgin Mary, who said to me: I am entrusting this child to you. Now she is a diamond in the rough, but I want you to work with her, polish her, and make her as shining as possible, because one day I wish to adorn myself with her."
Ruffin describes the strange circumstances of the birth of this girl, this "rough diamond" in some detail on the night of the same day, January 18, 1905, on which St. Pio had his extraordinary experience.
My point is, how can a newborn be in any way described as "a rough diamond" in need of polishing? Is this account suggestive of reincarnation. Or not? What do you think?
Great Video
Thanks!
Thanks for your thoughts on this topic Michael. If I understand correctly, you differentiate significantly reincarnation per se ( as indeed a possible spiritual reality/fact), and the way it is at times treated in the culture, especially when it is subject to trivialisation or used to obscure the sacred value of the single life. But are these necessary contraries? If the concept of Grace is freqently mishandled by us , does this invalidate its reality, I wonder? Cheers and good wishes! Alistair.
Thanks for commenting, Alistair. I don't think they are necessarily contraries--as I said, I believe reincarnation is possible--but, as reincarnation is taught both East and West, I think something is missing. The picture is incomplete. I have a hard time believing God would be so cruel as to not let us know what we did wrong--and I do believe Christ when he says, "Go in peace. Thy sins are forgiven." Otherwise, we are stuck in a cruel cycle of the eternal return.
Thanks Michael. Food for thought... I must track down that "missing" element. Great to be able to have these conversationsKia ora from New Zealand, Alistair.
Please keep in touch @@alistairmunro4670
The question isn't whether reincarnation is true, but rather; does it deserve to be true? Has it improved the species? Has it made us better people?
Have you read "Many Lives Many Masters"?
As far as I can tell, the reason usually given for belief in reincarnation and why it's useful, is that it basically gives an incarnational orientation to life.
That makes a lot of sense in the kind of gnorstic longing for, or expectations of, another world after death, I often see in christians. So in that context, it can be a step in the right direction I guess.
But from my perspective it's not useful in a context where one already realizes the faithful being in heaven means their spirits are already incarnated, in all of us. Just because our imaginations have a hard time realizing exactly how that works, doesn't mean one that's easier to understand, like reincarnation one to one, is better, as it can tend to serve narcissistic views of ones own spirit. That the dead might serve as guardian angels for a particual body, forming a new spirit, is a much better stance when it comes to making us humble and thankful for what came before I think. That thoughts of this angel might be communicated to us, makes complete sense too.
I don’t believe in reincarnation, I believe in purgatory! Anyway, I love your videos. Opal Whiteley?
thanks
Maybe not an either/or topic?
If I understand correctly...
I wonder what your thoughts are onthe Hymn "It is well in my Soul" by Horatio Spafford...And his American Colony in Jerusalem.... Do you believe the piwers that be that run the DNA collections are tracking Biblical lines, to this day. TIA. The history of Gihon spring and his son finding the inscriptions.... Spafford Childrens Center in Jerusalem at Herods Gate....all the same folks... lines
@@Timebend2025 I don't know that hymn, but will check it out. I don't know enough about the DNA stuff to have an opinion.
@@michaelmartin8681 It's a well known hymn, You may recognize it when you hear it. Reset material to get people the hard times, natural or created. I'm quite certain all of that was completely manufactured.
Where is the grace in just having one shot at life? where is grace anyhow? where is this god everyone talks about?
clonka minkus, honestly.